Considering finishing degree, then law school.

[mousebandit]

I'm looking hard at wrapping up my 4-year degree in an online degree-completion program.  And I am considering after that to get my JD.  Looking for opinions and experiences. 

Current situation:  I'm a SAHM, homeschooling 4 little ones (ages 8-3).  I've recently overcome some serious health challenges (strokes, heart surgery, etc) and we live very remotely on a small homestead.  My husband works out of town 5 days a week, only home on the weekends.  We are very close to paying off all non-mortgage debt (2-3 months) and will have mortgage and property paid off by February 2017.  Husband is currently making good money ($100k), but is looking at potential layoffs or all of us relocating to another jobsite within the next 6-9 months (he does civil construction - this is typical). 

I would only consider this if I can do the programs online, as our location and all these little ones make commuting to a brick and mortar school and daycare total fantasies.  I also don't want to sink much cash into this effort, especially the 4-year degree completion.  There are 2 programs I found for this, and I have submitted my transcripts to both.  I am *hoping* that most of my former credits transfer, and I'll only have 8-16 credits left to go.  It's more likely that since it's been so long, it will be more credits and a longer route.  I do know that I'll qualify for some financial aid at the undergrad level. 

At the law school level, there is one online program that would give me eligibility to sit for the California bar.  Once that is passed, I can practice in CA (not necessarily difficult if we stay on this property, because I am within striking distance of northern california coastal town /county seat).  There are other avenues to pursue if I want to practice in another state.  it's definitely not as simple as attending an ABA-approved brick and mortar law school, but the cost is low and it fits my lifestyle.  I also already have an offer from the law school for 25% scholarship, based on my old LSAT exam scores.  I would *think* the scholarship opportunities for a 45-yo mother of 4 returning to law school would be out there, and would be intent on pursuing them.  The entire program for the online law school is $40k, minus the $10k they're offering me already. 

I'm thinking that in 5 years time, husband will be ready to slow down, maybe not fully FIRE, but slow down and do his own contractors business part-time, and he could take over homeschooling the kids, and I could venture out into part-time practice, or maybe even full-time.  I know that in all reality, the time when the kids are grown and gone will be here sooner than I realize, and I am thinking I would like to return to the workforce, at least in some capacity, and I'd like to have marketable skills.  If I had a law degree and could work full-time, and he work part-time contracting, I think we could do some serious maximizing of income and savings, as well as continue with homeschooling the kids all the way through graduation.

However, I've been out of the game for many years now, and I'm reading on here that law practice and jobs aren't what they used to be. 

I'd love to get first-hand stories - what jobs are out there, especially outside the large firms and big cities?  What are the starting salaries you're seeing for 1st year associates?  For public service?  For private practice? 

Is this totally crazy, or is this prudent planning for the future? 

THANKS!
MouseBandit

[SmallTownDA]

I understand the desire to ensure that you have marketable skills should they become necessary, but I would strongly suggest considering other options that will not require at least 3 more years of expensive schooling. The bar passage rates for California only online schools are very low and California has a notoriously difficult bar exam. You will also be limiting your future prospects to California only because you would not be eligible to even take the bar exam in any other state.

I would be very cautious about attending law school without a better understanding of what, exactly, you want to be doing with a law degree. What do you think working as a lawyer would be like? What are your expectations in terms of hours and salary? Do you intend on joining a firm or agency or being a solo practitioner? Do you want to be working in criminal law? Personal injury? Estates? Actually being a lawyer is very different from how it is portrayed on television or in books. $30k+ is a lot to spend to enter a profession you may not even like. If you have done your research and you think the work will be interesting, you are in a good position to make it happen, but don't become a lawyer because you want a prestigious white collar job with good pay. The legal job market is bad, especially for people just starting out. There are better options. 

[iwasjustwondering]

Good for you for recovering your health.  I don't know much about law school, but I recommend doing whatever is best for your health.  Homeschooling four young kids is a lot of work.  I think you should focus on getting enough sleep and exercise and whatever else you need to stay healthy.  I wouldn't take on a lot of additional work until the kids are quite a bit older. 

[pbkmaine]

Bad idea. Law school is not a panacea. There are boatloads of unemployed lawyers out there, and just as many earning a pittance. I would advise you to spend a considerable amount of time on forums for attorneys first.

[mousebandit]

I should have probably clarified that I have been around the law profession quite a bit, although it was "back in the day".  I worked in the DA's office right out of high school, earned a paralegal certificate and worked doing that for a year or so.  I spent a few years being a legal secretary and then managing a small group of law offices for a small firm.  I also did begin law school - attended the first few months of first year. 

(In my 20s, I was pretty much an emotional train wreck.  Picked law school based  on emotion, didn't choose the school that gave me full-ride scholarship.  Yes, you can face punch!  I was broke by the end of the first month, but managed to hang on another 6 weeks, LOL.  Additionally, I had an incomplete on a class from undergrad, that was supposed to be resolved by end of that first semester.  That didn't get done either, which is why I still need to finish that dang BA degree.) 

So, I do know a decent amount about the profession, and what it entails.  I know a few specialities or branches I DON'T want to practice in, and I know that there's quite a few that I find interesting.  I do know that after all these years out of the workforce, if I come back after the kids are older, it will need to be something that I really find compelling, and WANT to do, plus something that would provide a decent income, even in rural area.  Law would fulfill that. 

I also wouldn't pursue the law school option unless there was a SIGNIFICANT amount of scholarships.  I would definitely NOT shell out $30K for it.  If I could complete the 4-year program for $10k or less, I am thinking that would be an appropriate amount, based off of earning $60k or better after returning to the workforce.  So, scholarships will be a major factor in whether I pursue this or not.

The school I am looking at, Concord Law School, would allow me to sit for the California Bar exam.  I have no doubts about my ability to pass the bar, even the CA.  I would ensure that I am prepared for it, even if, for some reason, the school's preparations are lacking in any way.  Other states have varying requirements for sitting for their bar exams if you did not attend an ABA-approved school, but many allow you to sit after a number of years practice in another state, or upon achievement of some other benchmark.  So, attending this school would absolutely not lock me out of practicing in any other state, certainly not the western states that I would potentially be living in. 

The fact that if I started this process now, beginning the BA degree-completion program this fall, and considering that the online law school is a 4-year program (versus 3-years at regular brick and mortar law schools), it would be a full 5+ years before I could begin practicing and earning money.  I wouldn't want to wait too many more years before I begin this process, as I would still be playing catch-up in school after my own children are grown and gone.  Also, we will be in a position within the next 3-5 years for the husband to come home part time, and take on many of the homeschool responsibilities.  So, I am thinking that the timing to start this year or next would be good, if I am going to take this route. 

Not saying I am bent on doing this.  I am seriously considering it, and looking for some solid, current input on those out there in the field, or who have friends or family in the field. 

Thanks!

[mousebandit]

I'm very interested in the amounts that working attorneys are earning, and what are the qualifying factors that are determining who is getting hired and who is not.  Are these big-firm attorneys, or small independent practices that are going broke?  Only big-name grads getting interviews, or only top-of-their-class grads getting interviews?  Are undergrad degrees influencing interviews and hiring?  Are there differences in the hiring climate in the big cities, the region of the country, private vs public sector, etc? 

We don't get too many local kids going to law school from our county, and even less come back after school, so we don't seem to have much new blood around here.  That said, there doesn't seem to be any shortage of work for the ones we do have.  They are pretty backed up, in every area.  And, there's always the possibility and potential for me to practice elsewhere, depending on where we move or if we don't move. 

So, I would be very interested in the geographic areas that we're talking about when we talk about salaries and hiring practices.  And any recommendations for active attorney forums would be awesome!!   

THANKS!

[pbkmaine]

http://abovethelaw.com/2012/06/a-law-school-finally-admits-that-its-graduates-may-never-be-employed-at-all/

[mousebandit]

Yes, I'm not super surprised to see an article like that.  Definitely need to be very cautious about a school like Concord, and any "online" law school at all.  HOwever, it is clear that the states are becoming more open to the concept of online education for JD.  You can see that by the shift in requirements for sitting for each state's bar exam.

I will continue reading on the site you linked to.  Looks like there's a few schools in particular, right now, being sued for fraudulent employment statistics.  I do know that in the days I was going to school, you were almost guaranteed a job, and if you were top of the class, you were guaranteed a good job, the pick of a few good jobs.  Likely a clerkship.  I don't anticipate that it is still that sort of a market.  I certainly wouldn't enter any field based solely on that. 

PBKMaine - can I ask if you practice in Maine, or where you do practice?  Are you in a large city, rural area?  Big firm, public sector, solo practice?  I am really interested in employment interviews and practicies you are personally observing - what are you seeing where you're at?  THANKS!

[pbkmaine]

I am not an attorney. My first husband was. We were undergrads together and I got an MBA while he got his JD (Cornell). So for about 15 years I was surrounded by attorneys. I was for many years a financial planner working closely with trusts and estates attorneys, and I have many attorneys as friends. Here's what I have gleaned:

1) Passing the bar is hard.
2) If one does not attend a top 20 school, getting a job is hard.
3) Law firms have impossible hours.
4) Solo practice involves considerable entrepreneurial and sales skills.
5) The happiest attorneys I know work in corporations or for the government, where hours are reasonable.
6) Or they have a niche specialty, like ERISA law.

I used to live in Maine, but am now (mostly) retired and live in Florida.

[LeRainDrop]

http://abovethelaw.com/2012/06/a-law-school-finally-admits-that-its-graduates-may-never-be-employed-at-all/

Funny, I was just about to post the same link.  Not a chance in hell that I would go to an online law school, a for-profit law school, or any other law school that is not accredited by the ABA.  I'm a practicing attorney in biglaw, about 8 1/2 years of experience, and I would be shocked to learn of any attorney in my firm who graduated from such schools.  I think the bulk of our attorneys went to top 20 law schools, next rounded out by our state schools where each office is located (which are still decently-ranked schools).  I'm also super-confused about how you are going to law school if you don't yet have an undergraduate degree -- I guess it's because you didn't go to one that is accredited by the ABA?  Frankly, I would encourage anyone thinking about law schools these days to really think hard about what their goals are and to make sure that they really know what practicing law is like day-in and day-out.  The market is still not so great for newbies from good to great schools; the caliber you are looking at would be extremely limiting for your options post-graduation.  I promise I'm not trying to be snotty, but your expectations about what doors may open coming out of a school like that seem totally incongruent with getting a decent law job.

[mousebandit]

I would agree with every one except, maybe, #2.  I think it can be difficult, but not the impossibility that it might be made out as.  I think in general, being a lawyer was considered almost a free ride, once you got out of school.  And that's not the reality, and the general population, including recent grads, are waking up to that, and it's a shock, LOL.  I think, as with most any other degree, getting suitable employment after graduation requires effort.  The time was, you had an employment fair and had your pick from job offers, especially if you were at a top-tier school.  So those days are gone, yes.  But that doesn't mean there's no jobs.  They are out there, and you have to outshine, outnetwork, and outperform your competitors.  Or, work around.  Work public sector for a while, get experience.  Work on your own a while, get experience.  Make lateral moves.  Get into a specialty.  There's options, if you want it.  I think, anyways, LOL.  That's why I'm asking questions and doing research!

[LouLou]

Absolutely positively do not pay for some non-school and take the California bar exam.  That would be a terrible idea.  Really, really bad idea.  I cannot stress this enough.  Having that on your resume would make you an automatic no-hire at most legal employers, because it would be evidence of poor judgment.  Judgment is our job, and there are not enough jobs to go around, even for people who graduate from top notch law schools! You could be a solo practitioner, but you would have trouble getting clients.

For reference, I am on the recruiting committee for a 150-200 attorney firm in the Midwest and I practiced at a 30-40 attorney firm before that.  A resume from an online school would not make it past HR at either firm.  I don't know any small firms or solos who would hire an online grad either.  I just finished interview a round of law students who just finished their law school education at one of the top 30 law schools in the country, all still unemployed!  They were all in the top third of the class.

Unless you are prepared to go to a decent/fancy law school on scholarship and dedicate yourself to attending full time or part time (not online), and working full time for a few years immediately after you graduate to gain some real experience, law school is not the right choice. But remember, you can go later in life!  I went to law school with a woman in her 60s, and she is kicking ass at a firm now!

You mention prior experience in the legal field.  You may want to look paralegal or legal assistant work, though technology is making many of those jobs obsolete.

On a positive note, I definitely think you should finish your degree and think about marketable skills.  But the legal field is contracting, and it's not where you want to go right now.  I bet you are talented, and could identify better fields to go into than law.

5) The happiest attorneys I know work in corporations or for the government, where hours are reasonable.

I would say this is true.  However, it is near impossible to get the in-house corporation job without working your ass off at a firm for a few years.  Government jobs are very, very competitive.

[LeRainDrop]

The bar passage rates for California only online schools are very low and California has a notoriously difficult bar exam.

Yes, this is right.  Here is some information on the statistics: http://abovethelaw.com/2015/11/california-bar-exam-results-reveal-worst-pass-rate-in-nearly-30-years/  And here's the full list for July 2015, broken down by individual law school:  http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/4/documents/Statistics/JULY2015STATS.121715.pdf

[onecoolcat]

I wouldn't recommend law school.  I'm having a hard time finding a decent job as a second year associate with good credentials.  I'm a 2014 grad of a T1 law school.  I graduated with honors and was on a secondary journal.  I don't regret law school, I did it with very little debt, but its tough out here.  I've been stuck doing foreclosure litigation and its been hell trying to crawl out. I know lots of classmates that are much worse off, some would kill to do what I do even though its considered pretty bottom of the barrel.  California is even worse from what I hear. 

[mousebandit]

I should clarify - I do have to finish the BA degree first.  Concord surely isn't a top tier school, but it's not total crap, LOL. 

I wouldn't anticipate that there would be any shot at biglaw firms, or even much towards any comparatively-high-salary 1st year jobs in any city of any size.  That wouldn't be my target market, though.  I would be looking at small firms, small towns, perhaps assistant DA in small county.  Less pay compared to the big guys, but still significantly better pay/benefits than other jobs in the towns. 

Having worked many years in law offices, I do have a very good idea of what attorneys do day in and day out.  And I know that I LOVE that work.  I know that there are many areas that I can be really passionate about, and that even the areas that I'm not totally nuts over, are still hugely interesting to me. 

I also know that I am 90% of the way done with a 4-year degree in a field that I don't enjoy (business management) and that offers little improvement in employment opportunities in my rural area, versus just going out there with no degree at all.  With my current skills, and time away from the workforce, I could probably make $20-$25/hr, *maybe* in a salary position with decent benefits, if I commute an hour away.  The opportunities wouldn't progress much better than that, even after being back in the game for a number of years. 

If I complete my BA degree, I could do a little better, but it's still going to be an hour to commute to a city with applicable jobs, and I would not enjoy the work.  The long term ceiling doesn't go up much higher, either. 

If I put the time and effort in now to study and finish the JD, I can likely find work in the $50-$70k range, in that same town an hour away, and I can enjoy it.  But, as long as I'm not sinking more than $10k or so into the total law degree, I can absolutely take a position paying much less, and still come out ahead, as my future salary potential goes up and up, as long as I'm in the field and practicing and progressing.  Especially once I put in the time to sit for the bar in other states.  That's a 3-5 year proposition - not too bad, really.

Will attending the online school restrict my initial options?  Oh yeah, absolutely.  Will it restrict them forever?  No, definitely not.  Are the benefits to me of the online factor outweigh the restrictions?  I think so.  WIthout the online option, the JD would be completely out of reach for many more years (costing me opportunity for income there), and would likely cost 4-6 times as much.  Will I have to work harder, especially at first, to compensate for an inferior school?  Yep.  I learned my lesson though with my previous law school experience.  The big name school is not necessarily the best bet.  I would have been an attorney 18 years ago if I had picked the full-ride school over the big name.  I blew it.  Would I rather go to my state school?  Sure, but I don't want to pay their price, and I don't want to relocate to go into the building and get the education in the traditional way.  Those are big factors for me.

So, for a 22-yr-old recent grad considering law school at a typical brick and mortar, yeah, I can see it not necessarily being the right choice.  For a 45-yr-old mom, who worked for years in the profession, and who can probably pull this off for less than $10k costs, it might be the right choice.  (It might not, LOL, but I'm not too dissuaded yet.) 

[mousebandit]

LouLou and OneCoolCat - ty for the replies!  I will definitely take what your saying into consideration.  I will be talking with some of the firms in the nearest "city" and get their opinions, as well.  Maybe I am underestimating the stigma attached with a non-traditional school. 

OneCoolCat - can I get more details from you on what constitutes, for you, a barely decent position with one that you'd be happier about?  Sounds like foreclosure litigation isn't your preferred niche, LOL, for starters.  Can I ask what salary you make, or at least what you'd be happy making?  Are you working biglaw or small firm?  Are you big city, or small city?  What else is factoring into your dissatisfaction?  Hours / benefits / work environment?  The details are HUGELY helpful to me in thinking through my options.

LeRainDrop - thank you for the links!  I will go check those out.  I do know CA is a difficult one to pass, and I don't anticipate that the online school will have anything close to an adequate prep for it.  I would consider this with the expectation that I'll have to provide my own, extensive bar prep. 

THANKS!

[pbkmaine]

I should clarify - I do have to finish the BA degree first.  Concord surely isn't a top tier school, but it's not total crap, LOL

It certainly fits my definition of "total crap", since it is not ranked by any reputable source. What is your basis for making this assessment?

[LeRainDrop]

I should clarify - I do have to finish the BA degree first.  Concord surely isn't a top tier school, but it's not total crap, LOL. 

I wouldn't anticipate that there would be any shot at biglaw firms, or even much towards any comparatively-high-salary 1st year jobs in any city of any size.  That wouldn't be my target market, though.  I would be looking at small firms, small towns, perhaps assistant DA in small county.  Less pay compared to the big guys, but still significantly better pay/benefits than other jobs in the towns. 

My advice for you is necessarily limited since it's clear that the market you are targeting (rural area on the west coast) is completely different from the markets I have worked in (major cities on the east coast).  I really have no idea what is out there for rural practitioners, other than the ones who were near my law school, who were all either solo practitioners, in-house attorneys (in the college town), or government attorneys.  Even the small firms in my big city are very picky about hiring.  I doubt that the reputable small firms are going to hire below Tier 1.  I have several friends in small firms in my city, and they are all top 20s or our state school (which is still Tier 1).  I also have friends in firms, companies, and government offices all around the country.  Can I say that with Concord on your resume you would never get into a good small firm?  No, of course not, but based on my experience in the industry, I think that is a very steep mountain to climb.  Like I said, I'm 8 1/2 years practicing, and as I'm just starting to look around for a move to a smaller firm or in-house, I find that some employers are STILL asking for my law school transcript (and I went to a top 10 law school).

[mousebandit]

No, I don't only consider the ranking by outside sources.  :-)

I would consider whether or not it provides enough education and resources to proceed into your chosen field, to allow you to successfully practice in your chosen field. 

Would Concord be my first choice, if I felt like a brick and mortar were an option for me, and if finances weren't a major consideration?  Of course not.  Do I believe Concord can provide me with an opportunity to practice in my chosen field?  Maybe.  I'm still not convinced, but I'm certainly not totally dissuaded. 

I do have to say, LeRainDrop - those bar passage stats are atrocious, LOL!!  OH MY GOODNESS!! 

However, they do bring up other avenues I hadn't thought about.  Sitting for the bar based on 4 years of legal work instead of a JD.  And there were correspondence schools listed.  Obviously, it's not the sure-bet, nor the best route to take, but I'm interested in thinking outside the box on this.  :-) 

I do want to say that I am appreciative of those who are giving me specifics as to why they wouldn't recommend pursuing a law degree.  I know I sound pretty dogmatic about proceeding forward, but it's not so much that, as I don't intend to give up the research phase of this just based on a forum discussion.  It is HUGELY valuable to me though, to give me specifics to research, and more resources to research through.  More questions to ask myself.  THANK YOU for that!

[mousebandit]

LeRainDrop - that is a really interesting point you bring up.  Being asked for a transcript, this far into your career, really surprised me!  I had thought that after 3-5 years practicing, that your school would be less of an issue than your employment history.   I would have thought that a top tier school would still be impressive, but that lower level schools wouldn't be as much of a detriment by that time.  That is seriously food for thought.

[chesebert]

OP, MMM is the wrong place to post law school-related questions.

Go here instead:

http://www.jdunderground.com/all/
http://top-law-schools.com/
http://autoadmit.com/

I am sure the folks there can share with you their invaluable experience.

Good luck and I hope you make the right call!

[mousebandit]

Thanks for the links Chesebert!  I will check them out.

I had thought the financial costs / potential ROI would have been more of the bent of the discussion, which is why I was posting here.  Looks like I got a lot of other angles to think about, though! 

THANKS!

MouseBandit

[aFrugalFather]

I agree with most of the other people here.  As an Attorney in a niche field, I wouldn't recommend going to law school without a clear career path.  Not in todays legal climate.  What you need to do practically speaking is talk to Attorneys where you think you will work and ask them, because I don't think you are really trusting what is being said here.  I think you may find one or two people who don't care where you went to school as long as you passed the bar, but it is not easy and will be very tough.  If you spend time on AboveTheLaw you will find that many people would certainly classify Concord as a crap school, although I nothing about them particularly I can say this with confidence because Attorneys can be a snobby group and many people think outside of the top 5 or 15 national schools, everything else is "crap" or in legal tabloid parlance, they call them "TTT" which is "Third Tier Toilet."

In any case, definitely see 1) Where you would work when you are done, and ask them about prospects from Concord 2) Ask Concord Alumni what they thought of the program and where are they working now, and 3) I haven't heard about much possibility for scholarships outside of the school, so getting an extra 30K in free money for you to go to school seems a bit ambitious, I'd advise looking into that some more before thinking you can get your degree done for 10K out the door. 

[aFrugalFather]

LeRainDrop - that is a really interesting point you bring up.  Being asked for a transcript, this far into your career, really surprised me!  I had thought that after 3-5 years practicing, that your school would be less of an issue than your employment history.   I would have thought that a top tier school would still be impressive, but that lower level schools wouldn't be as much of a detriment by that time.  That is seriously food for thought.

All the firms I interviewed with required my full UNDERGRAD transcripts, in addition to Law School transcripts.  They looked at quality of both schools.  If you look at postings for lateral transfer opportunities, more often than not, they want a top school and will still look at your law school class placement, even for many years of experience. 

[chrisgermany]

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Best wishes!

[erae]

I also work in recruitment. We're not a legal field, but we absorb a decent amount of lawyers once they leave the profession. We use rubrics to help us evaluate applicants' education, including lists of online schools that are reputable. I don't have access to the list now to confirm that Concord isn't on it, but I can't think of a single school on that reputable list that isn't an online extension of a brick and mortar university that already benefits from a solid reputation.

The only way I can see this working is if you build your network first through part-time work, create a strong reputation for yourself such that someone who is in a position to offer you a job would go to bat for you in the hiring process and have the political clout to effectively advocate for your employment. Then, and only then, would I invest the money. You essentially would need a soft job offer first, and then start the classes. From what I'm reading, though, it sounds like you may not want to or be in a position to lay that groundwork before pursuing the JD.

It's tough to hear that a credential that involves passing a difficult standardized test may not do anything for you - i know it violates my sense of meritocracy. That's what I'm hearing from this thread, though, and it's consistent with what other experts in the field are publishing. My take is that this credential from Concord will not cut it. You would need to lay serious groundwork for that JD to open any doors.

[LouLou]

Thanks for the links Chesebert!  I will check them out.

I had thought the financial costs / potential ROI would have been more of the bent of the discussion, which is why I was posting here.  Looks like I got a lot of other angles to think about, though! 

THANKS!

MouseBandit

Well, about the finances specifically.  I think finishing your bachelor's is  smart idea, and would open up many opportunities.  You say you don't like your major, but you are not limited to jobs with that major.  I don't think you mentioned any costs/ideas about how to complete that though so I can't evaluate.  Are there any online methods to finish that are associated with a brick and mortar school?

I think Concord (or an equivalent) would harm your chances of getting a job.  In other words, you would have more options with a Bachelor's than with a bad law school degree.  The law school degree would make you less marketable for non-law jobs (because they think you will quit as soon as you find a lawyer job), and the type of school you are considering would make it very difficult to find a law job.

Another issue to consider is portability. Would you be willing to move for a job after graduating? I went to a good law school, was on a journal, blah blah blah, and had to move to another city for my first job.  My husband and I were long distance, at the beginning of our marriage no less! But I was able to get fulltime experience and transition back to our city.  It seems like you are talking about a very small target area of working.  I would start going to bar association or attorney meetups in that area to talk to those folks to see what the market is like.  Ask the last time any of their employers hired anyone, and how they found that person.  I know some rural lawyers, but they didn't really get to choose which rural area they worked in after they graduated.

Another option: Have you considered becoming a freelance paralegal?  You would own your own business, and contract with solos and small firms when they need extra help.  They may not need a paralegal or associate attorney full time, but would hire you when they're busy (they have a big trial, way more wills to write than normal, etc). Paralegals can draft legal documents and do legal research so you would get to do the work, just under the supervision of the attorney.  You couldn't argue in court, but many attorneys have a paralegal at trial to help with them.  The start up costs would be low, you wouldn't need a whole other degree, you would have the flexibility you want because you decided who you want to work with.  I don't know when you were last in the field, but you would probably need some training on new technologies because the field has changed so much in the past few years.  The time/money investment would be low, and I think the chances of success could be higher than going to Concord with the hopes of working in one particular place.  Your success would be dependent on building relationships in the legal community in your area.

[Gondolin]

I would *think* the scholarship opportunities for a 45-yo mother of 4 returning to law school would be out there, and would be intent on pursuing them.  The entire program for the online law school is $40k, minus the $10k they're offering me already.

What makes you think this? Law scholarships are few and far between for youths out of undergrad. I've never seen a scholarship targeted at middle aged professionals returning to school (though they may exist). Also, this is a for-profit college so the price is arbitrary and so is the "scholarship" they're giving you. This school is non-competitive so that 10K off is a sale discount, not an indication of your merit.

I can likely find work in the $50-$70k range, in that same town an hour away

What makes you think this? You keep saying it without providing specifics. If it's niche knowledge of your local area then it's not going to be reflected in the general internet advice posited here. You're getting a lot of negative responses that indicate that the above may not happen. If you know something we don't, you can safely ignore that advice. Otherwise, take heed.

Finally, I'm reading that you're pretty glib about your ability to "outhustle, outnetwork and outstudy" the competition. Think very hard about if this is really true or not. If I'm a recruiter who can choose from hundreds of hungry 26-year olds willing to slave away for me out of desperation...what does a geographically restricted,50 yr old, mother of 3 who is homeschooling really bring to the table?

My father and stepmother are both attorneys. After undergrad I briefly considered law school (and would have gone to a Top 10 law school). I decided not to go when my father (who has 30+ years of bankruptcy practice under his belt as well as being a federal trustee and the local judge) called me and said it was a bad idea in the current market.

[ggmeg]

Hi - long-time lurker, first-time poster here. I'm a career services professional at a second-tier law school, so I hope I can shed a little light on what you're asking. My job involves helping students find employment across the country after law school, but I admittedly do not have a lot of students go to California. However, I will tell you that across the board jobs are scarce in the legal profession right now, and salaries have gone way, way down. I have top of the class students with journal experience and big-law or government internship experience who cannot find jobs. These students have sent out hundreds of resumes, networked, etc. and still cannot find jobs. The jobs that are out there start at maybe $40,000 if they are lucky - and that's with a local government (PD, DA, city attorney) or established small firm. The mid-sized firms are offering $45,000-60,000 with 2000+ a year billable.

As an aside, I went to law school at a second-tier school, graduating in 2012. I took a public sector job as a staff attorney with a judge - paid $31,000. Then I worked as an ADA - $45,000. Government and public sector jobs notoriously pay badly, though the benefits are usually good. Several of my classmates took years to find legal employment. One of them still works for a department store because she can't find a legal job that will pay her enough to cover her student loans and live.

Take a really close look at what the school's bar passage rate, alumni database, and career resources have in the way of hard stats about and aid to their grads. If law school is really what you want, and I'm not trying to dissuade you from going as it sound like you are passionate about the work, I would suggest finishing your BA and then looking into attending an accredited law school that offers night classes. I would run as fast as you can from an unaccredited law school. Also, scholarships are typically based off GPA and LSAT score. There are scholarships out there for other situations - often through the Bar or bar organizations - but they often stipulate that they are for accredited law schools only. Just my two cents. Best of luck!

[zombiehunter]

The general consensus for pursuing a law degree is (1) go to a top 20 school, and (2) go with a scholarship.  The only recommended schools in CA would therefore be Stanford, UC Berkeley, USC, UCLA, and if you want to get fast and loose, maybe UC Irvine.  There is then a large group of 2nd tier schools, and then even worse 3rd tier schools.  Concord would be even below that, unaccredited, unranked, and for-profit.  Do yourself a favor and google "Trump University" and "Corinthian College". 

Do not go.  Do not pay even $1 for that "degree".  Do not waste 3 or 4 years of your life pursuing such an online "degree".  Save yourself the hour commute that you would have.  Work on your homestead, raise your kids, garden and grow and make things. 

If you really want to help people in a rural environment, have you considered being a social worker? A counselor? An EMT? A home health aid? Almost any other profession would be better for you financially. 

[BFGirl]

If you go to law school at this age, I would plan on hanging out your own shingle.  I am a lawyer and have been for 23 years.  I am 48.  If you are 50 when you get out, I think it may be difficult for you to get on with a law firm because they will likely want you to work a lot of hours and it doesn't sound like you want that.  Also, you may have to take work that you don't like until you get established and can start picking what you want.

I think there is a lot more competition for the legal jobs and if you want to be competitive, you will need top notch grades and scores on your bar exam.

I have a government position.  I know that if I decide to leave, there will be many applications for my job.

Edit:  It took me 6 months after graduating law school in 1993 to find a job with a small law firm.  I graduated from an accredited university in the top 15% and had excellent scores on the Texas bar exam. 

[onlykelsey]

I would absolutely not pursue this option. (I'm a 2011 law school grad and practicing, for the record)

People have already hit on the atrocious employment statistics, especially at schools like Concord.  Something I haven't seen anyone mention is how unpredictable the market is.  You're making a decision now betting on what legal employment prospect will look like in, say, 2021.  You may go in to law school during a bull employment market (when everyone is going, and it's harder to get in), and then graduate in a bear.   I went to a T14 law school and finished in the upper third of my class (upper 10% when I was interviewing).  Approximately 60% of my law school friends have full-time legal employment five years out, from one of the best law schools in the country, because we were interviewing in 2009.  I got literally one job offer, which I was INCREDIBLY lucky to have, despite having worked through law school, been on three journals, having earned an MA on the side, etc.

Also, pay attention to "scholarships".  Especially at schools like Concord, there is a tendency to award merit-based scholarships to, say, 30% of the incoming population, and require that your GPA is in the upper 10% in order to keep the scholarship.  They look like they're giving out a huge amount of full or half rides, when in actuality they are giving out 1/3 of that, at best.

re: transcripts.  I got asked for my undergrad transcript last year (four years in to practicing) when I was changing jobs, and was cross examined about a B- I got my sophomore year at an ivy league university.  I didn't get that job.  It will definitely come up. 

I will say, I work in interviewing, and Concord is pretty widely known as a scam/sham school.  I would definitely look in to other options, if there are any.   Even when I was working in a mom and pop firm for $9 an hour through school, they never interviewed anyone outside of the T20 schools.  Why should they, given the glut of lawyers on the market?

[ringer707]

I'm sorry to add more rain to this parade, but I have to agree with others that I would not pursue this option. Going to top level law school is absolutely critical these days. While it may be true that after you get a couple years of experience under your belt that no one is really going to look at your law school, you actually have to get that first job.

Career- I graduated in 2014, so I'm still new to this, but I can already attest to how hard it is to get a job. I was fortunate to obtain a one-year clerkship with a judge prior to graduating and began that right after the bar exam. I then got another one-year clerkship at a higher court which I am currently wrapping up. Although I graduated with great grades, a law review editor position, and good recommendations, finding full-time long-term employment has been challenging, to say the least. I just finally was offered a position after 6 months of searching to the tune of an 11k paycut. The benefits are fantastic and I am really looking forward to the job, but it's been a challenge to get there. 48 people applied to my job, and I know those numbers are down because 110 applied to a similar position when it was open the year before.

Scholarships- Get an amazing LSAT score or hang it up. Seriously. Being a mother and an older student isn't going to get you anything. There are very, very few outside opportunities for law school scholarships unless you're an LGBT Native American who plans to work in Legal Aid. My college GPA was at the 75th percentile level for my law school and my LSAT score was at the 25th percentile level. You know how much money they offered me? Nothing. My LSAT score was too low (keep in mind I was still at the 80th percentile of test takers nationally). I still chose the school for a variety of reasons. I went back to admissions after making top ten of my class my first semester and inquired about scholarships for the following year since I had done so well my first semester. I was told that wasn't an option and they understood if I wanted to transfer to a better school (which also will not offer you any scholarships). I'm embarrassed to admit what my current student loan debt is on MMM and am just thankful to be employed.

Bar Prep- This is going to sound rude, but anyone who KNOWS they can pass the bar exam is delusional. I'm sorry, but you can't know that. It's great if you have confidence in yourself as you will certainly need it for the bar exam, but there's no way to know you'll pass. My state is considered to be one of the hardest bar exams after California and New York, mainly because of the number of subjects we test. The 10 weeks of bar prep leading up to the bar exam were undoubtedly the worst time of my life. The stress of trying to prepare for the single biggest exam of your life was incredible. I went into the exam hoping for the best and was fortunate to pass, but I know many, many smart people who worked hard that did not. Taking a Barbri course and plenty of bar courses in law school is no guarantee you'll pass.

Law School itself- Tier 2 or higher, or bust. Don't go lower. I attended a tier 2 that's on the cusp of tier 1 level. My school has very strong regional ties for many though, so I knew my employment chances would at least be better if I stayed in this area, which I did. I would be afraid to venture too far out to find jobs though. I've already heard many friends say they've had a hard time getting jobs in the northern part of our state coming from our school.


I'm sorry if any of this sounded rude or defeatist, but I just can't stress enough that what you have laid out does not sound like a good plan. I commend you for wanting to finish your education and get a career going, but this is not the way you want to go about it, I can promise you that. Best of luck.

[SimplyMarvie]

Another data point: Graduated 2007 from a Top 20 State School in the Midwest (which means all you other attorneys now know exactly where I went to school...) with a B+ average, journal credits, two clinicals, published papers and great recommendations.

Made $49k in my first job as a compliance attorney at an insurance company. It took me 3 years and a job change to a bigger city to break the $60k mark, and I still ended up with an almost 15% 'raise' when I went into Government Service in 2012. I was absolutely asked for grades and full transcripts as a part of my job search as an attorney for the majority of the jobs I applied to, and mostly heard crickets -- I had really wanted to go into Intellectual Property or Family Law, but lucked into compliance because of a connection through one of my clinical. (Which was good, because I was 5 months pregnant and unemployed when I got that job.)

I suspect that if I was applying for these jobs today, the starting salaries would actually be lower than they were in 2007 -- this was just before the bottom completely fell out of the legal market, and there's been downward salary pressure ever since.

Also, I strongly suspect that the day-to-day of attorneys working in the field today is SUBSTANTIALLY different than the work that you remember from your twenties. The whole profession has (and is) revolutionizing it's self and the way we work and practice is very different. Hell, it's very different from 10 years ago when I graduated, much less 20 or 30 years ago.

I would seriously consider court reporting, paralegal work or something else in the legal support field instead.

[onlykelsey]

5) The happiest attorneys I know work in corporations or for the government, where hours are reasonable.

I would say this is true.  However, it is near impossible to get the in-house corporation job without working your ass off at a firm for a few years.  Government jobs are very, very competitive.

Oh, god, yes.  I may start to have a shot at those sorts of jobs in two years, but I'm also pregnant and sleeping on the floor of my office at my V15 or V20 BigLaw Firm pretty routinely.  There is zero shot at them coming from outside Tier 1 schools, and (as far as I can tell) the upper half of BigLaw + a few boutiques.

[Midwest]

.

Made $49k in my first job as a compliance attorney at an insurance company. It took me 3 years and a job change to a bigger city to break the $60k mark, and I still ended up with an almost 15% 'raise' when I went into Government Service in 2012. I was absolutely asked for grades and full transcripts as a part of my job search as an attorney for the majority of the jobs I applied to, and mostly heard crickets -- I had really wanted to go into Intellectual Property or Family Law, but lucked into compliance because of a connection through one of my clinical. (Which was good, because I was 5 months pregnant and unemployed when I got that job.)

I suspect that if I was applying for these jobs today, the starting salaries would actually be lower than they were in 2007 -- this was just before the bottom completely fell out of the legal market, and there's been downward salary pressure ever since.

To echo the above, had lunch with an attorney friend yesterday.  They are a 15+ attorney firm in the midwest.  Their associates are starting out below $50k.  I'm a CPA who at one point thought about a law degree, glad I passed on that.

Several years of your life and school costs to make less than $50k starting is painful.

[Gimesalot]

I will start by saying that have zero experience in law, but several of my lawyer friends have had similar experiences to what others have previously said.

Have you considered the options of working in law in other capacities?  For example, as a paralegal, legal secretary, or notary?  From my understanding these are lower cost options to pursue, can lead to decent pay, and are location flexible.

[katesilvergirl]

I know everyone has said this before on this thread, but it's sooo important (I work in higher ed market research so am looking into this stuff all the time). Concord is not accredited by the American Bar Association and the ABA doesn't accredit any fully online law degrees or any online legal education at all. Going to a non-accredited school (especially a law school) is a not a good decision.

Also, well-done on overcoming your health issues! Major kudos!

[BFGirl]

If you really want to go into law, one area that seems to be expanding is the area of Elder Law and guardianship.  You might do some research on it and see if it is anything you are interested in.  If you get some social services training in your undergrad and become knowledgeable about planning for government benefits, it is an area that is growing as more and more boomers are retiring and unfortunately getting dementia.  There are several directions that you could go with this type of background.  Just my 2 cents.

[renata ricotta]

I should clarify - I do have to finish the BA degree first.  Concord surely isn't a top tier school, but it's not total crap, LOL

It certainly fits my definition of "total crap", since it is not ranked by any reputable source. What is your basis for making this assessment?

I agree with pbkmaine; you have been misinformed. A law degree from this school will be almost entirely worthless (assuming you can pass the bar exam; please don't assume that you will beat the statistics just because you feel in your heart you are special*). Even if you can go for completely free - hell, even if they PAY you to attend - it is not worth your time and attention. The legal profession is incredibly snobby when it comes to schools; I went to a school in the top half of the top tier and graduated at the top of my class. I routinely get passed over for jobs because people wrinkle their noses at the fact I didn't go to Stanford or Yale. My classmates in the bottom two thirds of our class are finding much less success than I am.

Seriously - call up one of those district attorneys you used to work for. Ask if ANYONE in their office, or any DA they know (even in a small town!) graduated from a law school that was not accredited by the ABA (which is what it means if you can only sit for the bar exam in CA and not other states). I would be seriously floored if they knew of a single person for which this was true. PLEASE listen to everyone on this thread who knows what they are talking about, and do not do this.

*I passed the California bar exam in February 2015 - the total passage rate was 35%. That includes the thousands of takers who were from top-tier schools and had practiced for years. Superstars like Kathleen Sullivan have failed the CA bar exam.

[Happy in CA]

I am going to go against the grain and encourage you to pursue a law degree whether or not you go to Concord.  First let me say that the legal field is cyclical.  When I went to law school in the mid 80's everyone thought I was nuts.  By the time I graduated job opportunities were actually quite good.  The job market for law graduates has been horrible for a few years, but I was just talking to a state bar president earlier this week who said that job prospects are slightly better this year.  Also many law schools have limited enrollments so that should make things even better going forward.

You do not need to go to a top tier law school unless you plan to work in top tier law, and if I read your post correctly you have no desire to do so.  I went to a second tier school and got a great job in government which I loved for a long, long time.  What was more important to my employer was proven dedication to the work of the office (criminal defense, public defender).  In recent years the jobs in my former office have gotten more competitive - but proven dedication and excellent academic standing within your school are still more important than the standing of the school.  Often that means that before you can be hired you must work for free as an intern or clinical student and often more than one such position. 

I do know a person who landed a public defender job from an unaccredited law school after passing the California bar exam.  Only one, and she was a person who went to law school at night in her forties and had a lot of relevant experience.  The real surprise was that she ended up not liking the work that much and quit after a short time.

Regarding the oft repeated advice of pursuing a non-attorney position in the legal field, I can only say that if you want to be an attorney those other jobs will never, ever be satisfactory to you.  If you want to be an attorney you have to go to law school.  Period.  Take the risk that you will struggle to find the right job and recognize that it is not always about money.  Sometimes it is about pursuing your dreams and finding work that makes you want to get up every day. 

Also I don't think you are at all delusional to believe that you will pass the bar.  If you are a good test-taker and are properly prepared, you will most certainly pass, probably the first time you try.

So to me the question is really where you should go to law school, and I'm not sure Concord is your best bet.  An ABA accredited school would be a much better move IMO.  However, if you are in an area that has no accredited law school you might be able to convince me that Concord, as your only realistic option, was your best option.  And if you do select Concord, you must get involved in your local legal community while you're in law school - you really can't just hit the job market with a degree from an unaccredited school, even if you have your ticket (have passed the bar). 

[Zamboni]

My other half works at a top tier law school.

Here is some insider information about trends in legal education:
1. Even at a prestigious institutions with a long history, there is a desire to make money. Money comes from donations and tuition. More students = more tuition = more money. Therefore, the desire to make money is fed by letting in larger and larger classes of law students. A couple of years ago the first-year law student classes had to be moved out of the law building and to the science building where there is a large lecture hall because the incoming class will now no longer fit into the largest classroom in the very posh and modern law school building. Since then, the size of the incoming class has gotten even larger, so they have to keep having classes in the other building, but that doesn't really matter because all of them get good jobs upon graduation, right?
2. Wrong. Employment statistics at top schools look good on US News and World report, with >90% of graduates "employed at graduation." Some graduates do snag top jobs, some have family connections that mean an automatic job, some had a job in the first place before law school and they keep working there or go back there, some get a legitimate if low paying fellowship outside of the school . . . and some don't actually get a job. But, technically they aren't "unemployed." How can that be, you ask? Because in some cases the law school hires them on a one year "fellowship" within the school or gives them a "stipend" that pays their salary for a couple of months somewhere else. Where my other half works, this practice first started in . . . you guessed it . . . 2008. The internal "fellows" are low paid staff positions, and they act as a gofer and general assistant to the faculty. At this point most faculty members have a fellow (or sometimes more than one fellow) following them around, bringing them tea, opening their powerpoints for them to teach class, etc. When their year is up they are kicked out of the nest because the school needs the slot for the next year's graduates. But technically they had a job when they graduated, so our stats continue to look good. The "stipends" are basically the school paying the student who then does some grunt work for another employer for a couple of months. As far as the employer is concerned, they are an unpaid intern for a couple of months. You would think that this is just a couple of people, right? Actually, I know of at least one top school where it has inched up to where it is now nearly half of the graduating class. Yes, I'll say that again, nearly half of the graduating class is "employed" by the school or paid by the school for just long enough to say that they were employed at graduation. This is at a top tier school. Scary, yes?

You are wondering why people would ask about where you went to school, or even ask for a transcript, after your first job? There has been a trend in the last decade for employers to verify degrees through official transcripts even for more experienced employees . . . this happened after a few cases of well publicized degree or resume fraud. Here are a couple of examples:
http://readwrite.com/2012/05/03/10-executives-who-lied-on-their-resumes-and-2-who-got-away-with-it/
At the time that this was publicized, where I work we had a high profile "resume padding" incident with a physician (who was summarily fired), and there was significant backlash. First the big boss sent an email to us all reminding us to take the time to double check our resumes for any exaggerations or misrepresentations. A policy was then written where I work that degree completion must be verified for all new hires. Eventually existing employees were asked to bring in the actual diploma from their terminal degree or have the school mail an official transcript. I had already been working here for several years, but I had to bring in my diploma (the actual diploma, not a copy) to keep my job. Mine is really large in terms of dimensions and the admin assistant told me to just leave it framed, so I carted it in frame and all. :-) Yeah, people are cheats and liars, I guess, and that has led to some justifiable paranoia on the part of employers.

It would probably be worth your time to consider other plans. You seem smart and you are clearly articulate. Finishing your BA would be a great first step.

[chesebert]

I have anecdotal evidence that experienced paralegals at biglaw make $100k+ . Sounds much better to me than wasting 4 years of your life and whatever money you plan to spend for a degree that in the best case scenario (but you are nowhere close to that best case scenario, unfortunately) would land you a $160k job.

Good luck!

[onlykelsey]

I've seen more like 80K in my firm, but good money in any case.  I don't think that's relevant to her, though, as she's not willing to relocate to a biglaw area, and 5/6 paralegals I work with have ivy league or equivalent degrees.

[chesebert]

I've seen more like 80K in my firm, but good money in any case.  I don't think that's relevant to her, though, as she's not willing to relocate to a biglaw area, and 5/6 paralegals I work with have ivy league or equivalent degrees.

I agree; not willing to relocate is the deal killer.

Alternatively, legal secretaries with specialized skills (e.g., those working for a patent shop) or those at biglaw (working for key partners) also get showered with high compensation.

Perhaps OP can also look into being a transcriber. Millions of law suits every year generate millions of depositions and every one of them will need to be transcribed (someone confirm this for me).

Finally, I kid you not, there is at least one well known law firm (many more are looking) that have begun working with IBM on automating the provision of legal services. I believe IBM's Watson or another AI will eventually replace all paralegals and lawyers doing low level legal work. That piece of technology is pretty amazing. See "Elysium" for a taste of what's to come.

[mousebandit]

Happy in CA nailed it on the head for my train of thought - I've worked in the law offices.  I've been the paralegal, I've been the legal secretary, I've been the office manager.  And no matter how satisfactory the compensation is, or the fact that I've got my hands in the action, it's not the same.  It's a constant source of frustration that I'm not the attorney.  Not in the sense of being higher class, or smarter, or more authority.  It's simply that I see and know what they're doing, what their job entails vs the other support positions, and *that's* what I want to be doing.  And as someone said, that may have changed in the 20+ years since I was working in law offices.  THings have changed, I'm sure.  But, after all these years, it's still the draw for me. 

After all the conversation and discussion and me doing more research, I will concur that the online Concord approach is not a good route.  And after lots more thinking on that, I may be willing to make the required changes so that is isn't the only route available to me.  There's still so many more steps to take before I even get to the point of deciding yes or no to pursue law.  There's still undergrad requirements to finish up and secure the BA.  I've heard from one program here in Oregon on that, and it's very unlikely I'll go with their program.  We will see, hopefully this week, what the other program can offer.  That could be a game-stopper right there. 

Then there's the issue of what my husband decides to do with his career.  Come back home and work full time here as a general contractor.  Work for someone else around here.  Follow the big money up to Spokane.  Something totally different?  It will be months before those decisions shake out, and that will have huge impact. 

If I decide to complete BA and potentially consider law school, I will have to retake the LSAT.  I did great on it last time (97th percentile), but can I repeat that?  IF yes, then I can open more doors.  If no, then I am out of the running, because I wouldn't have the scholarship base to make a brick and mortar school feasible. 

Then, even if I do get the killer LSAT and great scholarships, there's still the question of will hubby be on board, and willing to come home to be SAHD while I go to brick and mortar.  That's certainly not a sure thing. 

So, there's SO MANY variables here.  I am really in the very beginning stages of this.  And with that said, I talked to my tax prep buddy (owns a couple of H&R Block franchises), and we talked a lot about me pursuing an Enrolled Agent designation.  Do tax prep during the season, no major educational requirements to sit for the exam, online prep courses available at reasonable cost, and I could even represent clients in tax court.  Maybe that's all I'm looking for - some more mental stimulation, some income, and a little bit of "litigation", LOL.  I don't know.  There's a lot to think about, and I'm open to it.  But I have to say, the desire to be an attorney has been with me from the time I was a kid, and has never left.  The ideas of helping the downtrodden in an area that is traditionally so out of reach for them, and so hard to penetrate, and so hard to get help in, is very much a draw.  Elder law is something that I could be REALLY passionate about.  The idea of practicing in remote areas (thinking Alaska), to help individuals with their legal needs, natives that probably have very little or zero other avenues, THAT gets my juices flowing.  No, biglaw isn't my thing.  Big cities, even small cities don't hold much allure.  Championing the underdog, promoting justice, helping people who have no other shot - that gets me fired up.  :-) 

And yeah, it doesn't necessarily pay the bills, but by that stage of our lives, it's more about me re-entering the workforce primarily for my fulfillment and secondarily about adding more funds to the stashe.  KWIM?  Anyway, thank you all for the continuing advice, both for and against, and the reality checks!  I am thinking, thinking, thinking!!  :-) 

MouseBandit

[LeRainDrop]

The "stipends" are basically the school paying the student who then does some grunt work for another employer for a couple of months. As far as the employer is concerned, they are an unpaid intern for a couple of months. You would think that this is just a couple of people, right? Actually, I know of at least one top school where it has inched up to where it is now nearly half of the graduating class. Yes, I'll say that again, nearly half of the graduating class is "employed" by the school or paid by the school for just long enough to say that they were employed at graduation. This is at a top tier school. Scary, yes?

Holy bananas!  You have to tell us -- which law school is that???

Perhaps OP can also look into being a transcriber. Millions of law suits every year generate millions of depositions and every one of them will need to be transcribed (someone confirm this for me).

Er, not "every one of them."  Probably most, but sometimes we don't end up ordering the full transcription after the deposition or hearing.  What I've heard from court reporters is that their business is hot or cold, sometimes overwhelming and sometimes nothing, though the really good reporters are always in very high demand.

[Midwest]

Happy in CA nailed it on the head for my train of thought - I've worked in the law offices.  I've been the paralegal, I've been the legal secretary, I've been the office manager.  And no matter how satisfactory the compensation is, or the fact that I've got my hands in the action, it's not the same.  It's a constant source of frustration that I'm not the attorney.  Not in the sense of being higher class, or smarter, or more authority.  It's simply that I see and know what they're doing, what their job entails vs the other support positions, and *that's* what I want to be doing.  And as someone said, that may have changed in the 20+ years since I was working in law offices.  THings have changed, I'm sure.  But, after all these years, it's still the draw for me. 

After all the conversation and discussion and me doing more research, I will concur that the online Concord approach is not a good route.  And after lots more thinking on that, I may be willing to make the required changes so that is isn't the only route available to me.  There's still so many more steps to take before I even get to the point of deciding yes or no to pursue law.  There's still undergrad requirements to finish up and secure the BA.  I've heard from one program here in Oregon on that, and it's very unlikely I'll go with their program.  We will see, hopefully this week, what the other program can offer.  That could be a game-stopper right there. 

Then there's the issue of what my husband decides to do with his career.  Come back home and work full time here as a general contractor.  Work for someone else around here.  Follow the big money up to Spokane.  Something totally different?  It will be months before those decisions shake out, and that will have huge impact. 

If I decide to complete BA and potentially consider law school, I will have to retake the LSAT.  I did great on it last time (97th percentile), but can I repeat that?  IF yes, then I can open more doors.  If no, then I am out of the running, because I wouldn't have the scholarship base to make a brick and mortar school feasible. 

Then, even if I do get the killer LSAT and great scholarships, there's still the question of will hubby be on board, and willing to come home to be SAHD while I go to brick and mortar.  That's certainly not a sure thing. 

So, there's SO MANY variables here.  I am really in the very beginning stages of this.  And with that said, I talked to my tax prep buddy (owns a couple of H&R Block franchises), and we talked a lot about me pursuing an Enrolled Agent designation.  Do tax prep during the season, no major educational requirements to sit for the exam, online prep courses available at reasonable cost, and I could even represent clients in tax court.  Maybe that's all I'm looking for - some more mental stimulation, some income, and a little bit of "litigation", LOL.  I don't know.  There's a lot to think about, and I'm open to it.  But I have to say, the desire to be an attorney has been with me from the time I was a kid, and has never left.  The ideas of helping the downtrodden in an area that is traditionally so out of reach for them, and so hard to penetrate, and so hard to get help in, is very much a draw.  Elder law is something that I could be REALLY passionate about.  The idea of practicing in remote areas (thinking Alaska), to help individuals with their legal needs, natives that probably have very little or zero other avenues, THAT gets my juices flowing.  No, biglaw isn't my thing.  Big cities, even small cities don't hold much allure.  Championing the underdog, promoting justice, helping people who have no other shot - that gets me fired up.  :-) 

And yeah, it doesn't necessarily pay the bills, but by that stage of our lives, it's more about me re-entering the workforce primarily for my fulfillment and secondarily about adding more funds to the stashe.  KWIM?  Anyway, thank you all for the continuing advice, both for and against, and the reality checks!  I am thinking, thinking, thinking!!  :-) 

MouseBandit

CPA here.  If you want to deal with complex issues (you mention tax court), you might consider looking into the CPA.  It would require some additional education and a difficult test but you were talking law school so you may want to consider as an alternative.

I'm familiar with the enrolled agent designation and typically they are employed at strictly tax prep practices and/or as staff at CPA firms.  Generally speaking, tax prep practices are going to have less complicated issues because they handle fairly simple returns.  If you want to fight the IRS, you'd be better served in a CPA firm.  Being brutally honest, I've represented many a client with the IRS.  If it's complicated, the enrolled agent is going to be in a supporting role (think paralegal) at best.  If I have a massively complicated issue or needed to go to tax court, I might bring an attorney in on the team to get the best result for the client. 

[onlykelsey]

The "stipends" are basically the school paying the student who then does some grunt work for another employer for a couple of months. As far as the employer is concerned, they are an unpaid intern for a couple of months. You would think that this is just a couple of people, right? Actually, I know of at least one top school where it has inched up to where it is now nearly half of the graduating class. Yes, I'll say that again, nearly half of the graduating class is "employed" by the school or paid by the school for just long enough to say that they were employed at graduation. This is at a top tier school. Scary, yes?

Holy bananas!  You have to tell us -- which law school is that???

Oh, that is many, perhaps the majority of them.

[LeRainDrop]

The "stipends" are basically the school paying the student who then does some grunt work for another employer for a couple of months. As far as the employer is concerned, they are an unpaid intern for a couple of months. You would think that this is just a couple of people, right? Actually, I know of at least one top school where it has inched up to where it is now nearly half of the graduating class. Yes, I'll say that again, nearly half of the graduating class is "employed" by the school or paid by the school for just long enough to say that they were employed at graduation. This is at a top tier school. Scary, yes?

Holy bananas!  You have to tell us -- which law school is that???

Oh, that is many, perhaps the majority of them.

I don't mean which top law schools have some recent grads on stipends, but which is the one that employs nearly half of the graduating class on stipend?