Author Topic: connections - family, home, community, etc.  (Read 4729 times)

mistymoney

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connections - family, home, community, etc.
« on: April 08, 2022, 06:17:18 PM »
hey so one thing that I've noticed on the site is a lot of moving around - sometimes to other countries! And common advice is to sell homes in more expensive areas and relocate.

how are you all thinking about/navigating this with your connections to others? Where I grew up, houses stayed in the family, some were on 3rd generation in the building and even in a big city it had that small town feel, you knew people, you knew their family, history, etc. When you went home to visit on christmas, so were the people you went to elementary and high school with, and you'd chat getting out of or into cars as you arrive/leave. Now I know almost no one on my parents block. I've been in my house 15 years and I met a lot of people on the block those first few years. Most of them are gone, and i haven't really met the newer ones, only those who are immediate neighbors. Is society just more mobile and far flung these days? I think there used to be a sense of homestead, staying put, passing it down. But now it seems almost expected that retirement=downsizing and moving.

Across generations - how does visiting work if you sell the house the offspring grew up in? And are you in the same capacity to host over night? Are offspring more or less inclined to visit if it is the house they grew up in...I guess for some the memories aren't great! Are thanksgiving and christmas/new years/other holidays still a time to get together with family for multiple days? What about your own elderly parents? Is this contributing to isolating oldsters, if visiting is a few times a year - or less! - rather than weekly or monthly.

Villanelle

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2022, 06:42:20 PM »
hey so one thing that I've noticed on the site is a lot of moving around - sometimes to other countries! And common advice is to sell homes in more expensive areas and relocate.

how are you all thinking about/navigating this with your connections to others? Where I grew up, houses stayed in the family, some were on 3rd generation in the building and even in a big city it had that small town feel, you knew people, you knew their family, history, etc. When you went home to visit on christmas, so were the people you went to elementary and high school with, and you'd chat getting out of or into cars as you arrive/leave. Now I know almost no one on my parents block. I've been in my house 15 years and I met a lot of people on the block those first few years. Most of them are gone, and i haven't really met the newer ones, only those who are immediate neighbors. Is society just more mobile and far flung these days? I think there used to be a sense of homestead, staying put, passing it down. But now it seems almost expected that retirement=downsizing and moving.

Across generations - how does visiting work if you sell the house the offspring grew up in? And are you in the same capacity to host over night? Are offspring more or less inclined to visit if it is the house they grew up in...I guess for some the memories aren't great! Are thanksgiving and christmas/new years/other holidays still a time to get together with family for multiple days? What about your own elderly parents? Is this contributing to isolating oldsters, if visiting is a few times a year - or less! - rather than weekly or monthly.

My parents sold the home that I consider to be the one I grew up in.  After frequent moves, we landed there when I was 11 and I was about 30 when they left and moved to another state.  I still visit just as frequently as I would if they still lived in that home.  They have 2 guest rooms (both of which have other uses when there are no guests, but are perfectly comfortable for sleeping in, too).  That home very much feels like my family home, even though I never actually lived there.  They are in a 55+ community now, and it is incredibly active.  There are tennis clubs and bridge groups and model train enthusiasts' clubs and tap dancing lessons and bead/jewelry clubs... and just about any other club you can think of.  And they have built an incredibly robust social circle.  They entertain frequently and their largest party of the year has about 70 invites, to give you a sense of just how many people they know well.  And with the exception of one couple they knew prior to moving, all of these are new friends.  The activities make it easy to meet people, for those who want to do so.  They are anything but "isolated" and in fact when trying to schedule things with them, I'm often amazed at how full their calendar is. 

We have "Lastname-mas", which usually takes place in early Janurary.  It is easier and cheaper for everyone to travel then.  (It is just my sibling and me, and our spouses.  There are no grandkids.)  It also makes it easier to navigate the in-laws and holiday scheduling.  The first yer we did this, I was worried, but it feels exactly like Christmas with my family is suppose to.  Nothing at all is lost.  Now, we could also do it on the actual holiday at least some years, but none of us see any point when there are so many upsides to picking a day that works best for all parties. 

I didn't grow up living near my grandparents, and there were ever weekly or monthly visits, so that doesn't seem normal or like the expectation to me.  I consider us to be a very close family.  We Zoom weekly (sibling joins every other week) and usually talk on the phone once or twice more each week.  I think a lot of what you mention just has to do with expectations and family culture.  If it is important to you to be able to visit your parents weekly, then moving probably isn't a decision that works for you, and you will need to either work longer to pay for that, or make cuts elsewhere. 

If you want your kids to be able to visit you weekly... I'd think long and hard before making a major decision based on that.  Because they may get jobs elsewhere, or marry someone from another place, or have other ideas for how to spend their time.  And they may also have in-laws who equally put demands on their time.  As you point out, moving away has become more common, and it may well be that your own offspring (if you have them) follow that trend, so staying put might not mean much at all as far as access and frequency of visits.  I have more than one set of friends who moved away, and their parents actually followed them in order to be close to grandkids. 


Cranky

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2022, 07:53:25 PM »
Surprisingly, people don’t move far from where they grow up, on the whole. It’s fairly dependent on your education level and employment.

My own family was pretty spread out and I do think we missed out on a lot of family connections.

cool7hand

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« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2022, 06:35:40 AM »
We plan to use part of the savings from relocating for a travel budget to see friends and family where we previously lived.

Log

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2022, 08:03:20 AM »
In my mid 20s I’ve already lived and made connections all over the country. My family cares about each other, but we aren’t particularly emotionally close, so I don’t give family any extra weight over friends. No matter where I choose to live I am foregoing opportunities to be with people I care about.

Once I do settle down somewhere for more than a couple years I’ll likely give some extra thought to trying to stay. I also consider this an extra benefit to living in the really major cities (NYC, LA, Chicago, etc.) because instead of traveling to visit old friends, you get to incidentally reconnect with old friends whenever they come to the city, even if they’re primarily there for business or to visit someone else.

Zikoris

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2022, 10:12:39 AM »
I've never felt any kind of connection to a specific place. My parents have both moved many times. Sometimes I visit them, sometimes they visit me, sometimes we meet somewhere or do a trip together, and all of those are fine (doing a fun trip together is my favourite though). My extended family is pretty spread out worldwide and I'm not particularly close to any of them.

For friendships, I know some people make friends based on "geographical closeness" - neighbours, co-workers, etc - but that's just never been the case for me. I've only ever made quality connections through niche special-interest groups like our local MMM group, or a local ballroom dance club.

Dicey

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« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2022, 10:18:18 AM »
I have more thoughts than time this morning, so PTF.

Fishindude

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2022, 11:08:56 AM »
We own properties in two other states but primary residence is the home my grandmother and aunt were raised in and only about 2.5 miles from where I was born and raised.
Have three siblings and my Dad within two miles.

From my point pf view, home is always going to be here where most of our friends and family are.  We can take trips anywhere we want to see other parts of the globe.

ixtap

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2022, 11:15:11 AM »
Home is where the heart is. I may well never see my siblings again after my parents pass, but a family home wouldn't change that. If the eldest got it, I wouldn't be able to stand watching it disintegrate like every home they have owned.

DH's sisters had all but stopped visiting the house they were raised in. They considered it too far to drive and couldn't get comfortable in it anymore. One stays in the new home, but the other is happy to have them close enough for day visits.

Only one of our siblings has a home we feel comfortable in. We stay in hotels or RVs to visit the rest, unless they come to see us when we visit parents. Same with friends, we make time for the ones who matter to us.

Dee18

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« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2022, 12:45:35 PM »
I wondered about what the trend was for moving and looked it up:
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2019/11/22/for-the-first-time-on-record-fewer-than-10-of-americans-moved-in-a-year/
Apparently there has been a steady decline in moving since the 1960s. Millennials, in particular, are not moving much.

wenchsenior

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« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2022, 05:50:29 PM »
I've noticed the same pattern, and I think it's down to 3 main trends. 1) smaller families compared with GPs' generation (when there were more kids, there was usually a good chance that several would stay in hometown or at least the state/region. 2) more divorces starting in the 80s, leading to more split spouses moving for a fresh start. 3) college degrees (particularly more specialized or advanced degrees) becoming more common, leading to 'following the job offer'.

As long as any of the GPs were still living, then it was natural for them to exert some 'gravity' and draw at least some of the kids and grandkids back for visits and holidays, but that dissolved once the last GP died, and that's when their homes were sold (neither home was inherited by the kids, in one case due to Medicaid clawback, but all the kids had their own places, even the local ones, and wouldn't have wanted it anyway).

In terms of my parents' generation/my generation, parents divorced and we moved away from my home town/property, but stayed in the same state. One of my two siblings remained in the state, the other two of us left and moved to opposite ends of the country. So my childhood property is still occupied by one parent (and we might or might not inherit, depending on how long he lives), but was never thereafter a particular 'draw'...in fact, once I started college I've only visited my father or any members of the paternal side of the family maybe a dozen or so times (I'm in my 50s now). Once he dies, it's very possible I'll never lay eyes on any of them again.

My mother never owned a property after the divorce, but her rentals still served as a bit of 'hub' of activity on occasional visits home (once every year or two, usually), until eventually we had to start supporting her and moved her to our town. That basically broke the link of the 'hub' effect, and my sister and I almost never go back to our home state now (despite a third sister and our maternal aunts and a bunch of cousins still living there).  ETA: My husband and I do sometimes build travel around going to see/do things with friends that are scattered around the country. But what the OP said, about visiting family several times per year, has never even been our radar since we were in college. My husband has seen family of his maybe a dozen total times in 4 decades since he turned 18 and joined the military. He simply has no common ground with them and no real emotional bond. No  hostility, just :shrug:  I feel the same about most members of my family. I wish them well, but I'm not close to many and don't miss the absence.

It is a bit sad in the sense that I miss especially the 80s and 90s, when the maternal side of my family was still close and all enjoyed each others' company.  But time, aging, life circs, etc. has really frayed those bonds. It is what it is.  I have very limited opportunity to travel, and rarely use it to go back to my home state (which I love, don't get me wrong).  I generally haven't been integrated into a 'social scene' or 'community' since college, though. My husband and I have lived here 20+ years, and neighbors have come and gone. I've known a few to nod to, but rarely remember their names. We have a couple friends locally, and a large casual network of business acquaintances. But there's nothing tying us to this neighborhood or this city at all, other than my husband's career.  We've never had any love for the place we live, nor a desire to 'build a community here'. I mean, we actively dislike the place in a lot of ways and wouldn't have chosen to live here if it weren't for work.

My two sisters also live fairly loner lives (apart from their significant others), despite them both liking where they live much more than we do. The one still in our home state rarely sees our aunts or cousins, and has only some casual local friends that she hardly ever sees. The middle sister has a couple of good friends local to her, and fairly large work related casual network. But we are all kind of loners; plus, none of us wanted kids, so there's no 'grandkid' issue that drove us back to see family, nor is there the automatic 'parents' network that some  people utilize to form midlife friendships. ETA: We three siblings are SUPER close, though, so we make an effort to see each other every year or two.

My impression is that social isolation and loss of community is on the increase in the U.S., so we are likely atypical, but not as much as we would have been several decades ago.

« Last Edit: April 09, 2022, 06:04:12 PM by wenchsenior »

K_in_the_kitchen

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2022, 07:35:58 PM »
DH and I have put down deep roots in our city, and truly hope our own offspring choose to stay nearby. We have zero control over it and continue to build our lives here with the community so we have something more than just the kids, should they leave for relationships, work, a lower cost of living, or different climate.  To stay here will be hard, and they're likely to need help with housing if they're ever to own.  We're considering building an ADU, which could house a young adult at some point, and then become our residence if they have children and need more space.  We also have the ability to turn part of our house into an attached studio apartment, if need be.  But for now we're just thinking about it.  The ADU may move forward since we could also rent it out of neither of the kids end up in it (or when they move elsewhere).  I've also been keeping my eye out for a small house or duplex close by that we could buy -- again it could house an adult child (maybe a rent to own situation) or we could use it as a rental.  I really wish I'd been thinking about this 10-15 years ago!

My dad moved across the country a few years ago, not severing a tie but changing the dynamic of our relationship.  One sibling has spent most of their adult life not living near the other siblings.  But while my other siblings are within day driving distance, they aren't so close by that seeing each other on weekdays would work, and with everyone busy months go by without seeing each other.

MIL and SIL are about 30 minutes away -- if there's no traffic.  We see them the most.  BIL recently moved out of state, but even before that he was a few hours away and we didn't see him all that often.

As we get older, seeing family more often has become more important to us.  Too many other people come and go, and even good friends can be hard to keep up with after they move.  But family -- even dysfunctional families like both of ours -- is something we can hold on to.  We can understand better as we get older, and forgive more.

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2022, 08:04:48 AM »
I went away for college then moved for work.  I returned after 20 years for 4 years then left again.  I don’t plan to “return home” when I FIRE to live permanently, but once I FIRE I will be able to take extended time to be back in my home area.

I’m not the same person who left West Michigan for college in 1996.  I love my family and miss them, not being connected to my HS friends doesn’t bother me.

If I hadn’t taken the chance to move away, I wouldn’t have had the life I’ve lived.  I don’t regret it.  The opportunities I have had would not have been available to me in west Michigan, and I doubt id be able to FIRE in 3 years if I had stayed.

roomtempmayo

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« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2022, 11:10:35 AM »

If I hadn’t taken the chance to move away, I wouldn’t have had the life I’ve lived. 


Same.

Since the start of the industrial revolution, there have been folks concerned that a mobile class of people who sell their labor or skills would undermine tradition/stability/community/family/religion/etcetera.  Their worries have been well founded because that's largely what's happened.

But to me - as a beneficiary - I think the disruption has been worth it.  If my family hadn't been gaining skills and moving to better markets for those skills for two generations, we'd be in a very bad place right now as unskilled workers on the periphery of an economy where opportunity has been highly consolidated. 

On a broader level, when young workers move, they see better incomes 4-6 years down the road than people who don't move (see charts 9 and 10 in this 2020 study from the SSA): https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v80n2/v80n2p1.html

I appreciate the nostalgia for a real or imagined past of intergenerational communities, but I'm not moving home, ever.

With the rise of remote work, I do wonder if, at least on the margins, there'll be more opportunity for people to choose to live in their hometown without giving up a bunch of economic opportunity. 

reeshau

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2022, 05:51:05 PM »
We actually moved back to family when I retired.  DW's immediate family is small (one sibling) and far flung--we were the closest, even when we were in Ireland!  We need to settle down for a while anyway, as DS is just in first grade.  We do want to give him the experience of steady friends for school.  We also expect this time will include elder care for her parents, so planning for sandwich generation time, before we are fully released to retirement with DS's graduation.

We had been chasing opportunity for some time.  Almost the whole family are very seasoned travelers, so it didn't matter.  We have had family visits in Hawaii, because that was just as close to everyone as anyplace else.  But as older parents, a little bit of a slowdown feels just fine, for now.  We do expect it won't be permanent.

Sibley

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« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2022, 08:53:43 PM »
It's entirely possible to live your entire life in an area and yet remain remarkably detached from it. My parents spent the first 60+ years of their lives in the same general area. Yet I had the horrifying realization a couple years ago that if something happened, there was NO ONE I could call who could be there in a few minutes while I or my sister traveled there. When they moved, there was no practical impact on their lives after the initial adjustment period.

So, if you're not going to have friends or community regardless, does it really matter if you're moving around a lot?

Wolfpack Mustachian

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« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2022, 08:58:46 PM »
I went away for college and moved back to be with family. I see myself staying in the same place for a while with kids, although we've discussed moving when the kids are out of the house. I feel some connection with the area, but I also have some desire to move to an area that's more walkable.

calimom

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« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2022, 09:18:58 PM »
I grew up in Oregon and as my sisters and I aged out of our family home, we scattered: one to a different town in Oregon; one followed school and work to the east coast and ultimately to the Seattle area; me to California; and our mother to Arizona. I moved with my children from the Bay Area to a more rural-ish part of the state where my aunt, uncle, and cousins live. As my own children age out from the family home to pursue education and employment opportunities, they have moved on. I have one child left at home and believe she will go where her interests take her. I encourage it. After she leaves home I will feel the freedom to stay or move elsewhere while still keeping an open-door policy for them to visit or stay for whatever periods of time they may want. A couple of generations ago, relatives migrated west from the Dust Bowl, and before that, other countries. We are a mobile people to some extent.

We stay in physical connection with family because of car, train, and plane travel. And virtually via Zoom. As much as I like the idea of my kids staying close by, I much prefer them chasing their dreams, and I like the thought of me realizing my own.

Log

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« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2022, 08:00:17 AM »
Another anecdote from my family history: both my parents families made some big cross-country moves when they were kids, with moves continuing after the oldest siblings moved out, so siblings left the family home in completely different places. As they grew up and wore on into adulthood, all my dad’s family congealed back together around one location while my mom’s family remained much more scattered. My mom’s family also generally seems a lot happier and healthier. Of course correlation /= causation and all that, but I do think to some degree that staying close to family can be a crutch for failure to thrive independently.

I know this is blasphemy around here, but I’m incredibly skeptical of kids staying close to home for college. Going far away for school and having that distance and independence was crucial for me to grow up, get a more worldly perspective, and become my own person. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with falling in love with your particular place in the world and staying in one place for most of your life… but I do think there’s something wrong if you make that decision without ever even trying to live somewhere else. For anyone who grew up in the same area for their whole childhood, college is the perfect time to get out and get some perspective. It’s only 4 years, then you can easily go back after graduating. If I had stayed close to family that whole time, I would have missed out on all these incredible growth opportunities. I would have a marginally lower student loan burden, at the cost of probably being a complete fuckup. “Elite” education on the far side of the country cost barely more money after accounting for scholarship, and it completely changed my life for the better. I would hope must parents would rather their kid thrive far away than get stuck in a rut close by.

On that note, if you do really want your family to stay close together, I think it’s advisable to live somewhere “elite.” I know this community has a lot of CO/WA/OR folks, and those are all beautiful and fantastic states that I have deep affection for, but it’s worth acknowledging the reality that if your kid is thriving on an upward career trajectory, in many fields they’ll be pulled towards NYC, DC, Boston, LA, SF, etc.. To stay close is to forego opportunities afar.

Cranky

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« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2022, 08:09:50 AM »
In our friend group, I’ve notice that as people retire they typically move away to be closer to their adult children (and grandkids). We all mostly lived someplace for work, and didn’t care that much about staying.

I can see this becoming a common pattern as families become so much smaller.

CodingHare

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2022, 10:51:02 AM »
I grew up in what was semi-rural Western WA (now absorbed into the Greater Seattle Metro area).  My parents moved for jobs away from my dad's family towards my mom's family.  This was a mixed bag, because it was definitely the right financial decision, but my mom's family were super dysfunctional.  My aunt and to a lesser extent my maternal grandma terrorized my mom, who in turn terrorized me.

As an adult, I have minimal contact with my extended family except for funerals.  I'm just too much of a stranger to the nice ones, and I have learned "family" can be a pass to act abusively and rugsweep, and I am not willing to be a part of that.  I still am in contact with my immediate parents, but 100% would not tolerate them living with me or right next to me.  Distance (about an hour and a half drive) has made that relationship worth having.  My FIRE plans involve saving enough to pay for a nice nursing home for parents.

So a big focus for me has been to create found family.  I've joined local groups that meet weekly, and as COVID is lifting up I intend to do more.  I'm also looking for a shared interest group for my SO and I to make sure he's developing local community as well.

9patch

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2022, 11:31:10 AM »
I'm thinking about this a lot, mainly because I was thinking about retiring to a less expensive location. But then I read this blue zones book, and they mentioned that in societies where people live the longest, they socialize for something like 6 hours a day. So just thinking about moving away from all my friends, is quite tough, so I think that I will stay in this same area when I retire.

Villanelle

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« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2022, 12:06:05 PM »
I'm thinking about this a lot, mainly because I was thinking about retiring to a less expensive location. But then I read this blue zones book, and they mentioned that in societies where people live the longest, they socialize for something like 6 hours a day. So just thinking about moving away from all my friends, is quite tough, so I think that I will stay in this same area when I retire.

I think a lot of this boils down to how social and extroverted you are, or how much effort you will put into making new friends.  As I mentioned above, my parents moved in their mid-60s to a place where they knew 2 people (and that the time those people were snowbirds so only there half time).  It only took them about a year to develop and incredibly robust social circle, but they did that via joining bridge groups and tennis clubs and hosting happy hours and chatting with people they met walking their dog.  (They recently had a party that they called "people we met walking our dogs" and the entire guest list was just that.  I believe mom said they had around 25 people there.)  Over time, mom because president of the bead club (she'd never made jewelry before joining the club) and one of the tennis clubs, and they added another bridge group and a couple more tennis games.  Dad joined the HOA board (which is a huge commitment in such a large neighborhood).  Mom is active in the monthly Newcomers group which is held to welcome people new to the community and let them know of the many things on offer. She is also a member of a little theater group that buys season tickets to the performances of the local performing arts high school. The list goes on and on. 

They made so many friends, but they also worked hard at it.  Well, to them it probably didn't feel like work because this is just who they are and how they always have been, but the put themselves out there and quickly made strong connections.  It is certainly possible.  Moving doesn't mean you are relegated to sitting at home alone, knitting and playing with cats.  Unless you want to. 

Maybe it is because I grew up moving, and then have moved all of my married life (both happening due to military affiliations), but it is always surprising to me--a pretty extreme introvert with strong social phobia, I might add--when people seem to think that moving away somehow means loneliness and isolation. Moving surely isn't the right choice for everyone.  But finding a new social group isn't especially difficult if you are intentional and thoughtful about it. 

mistymoney

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« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2022, 05:55:11 PM »


So a big focus for me has been to create found family.  I've joined local groups that meet weekly, and as COVID is lifting up I intend to do more.  I'm also looking for a shared interest group for my SO and I to make sure he's developing local community as well.

can you provide what/how you did this/will do this?

I haven't actually made a new friend in many years. There were some close work associates that seemed headed in a friendship direction previous to covid, but then they changed jobs. we exchange a few messages on linked in occasionally.

I've been trying to expand my social circle. seems like I am a grumpy snob and don't fit in anywhere....

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2022, 06:42:53 PM »


So a big focus for me has been to create found family.  I've joined local groups that meet weekly, and as COVID is lifting up I intend to do more.  I'm also looking for a shared interest group for my SO and I to make sure he's developing local community as well.

can you provide what/how you did this/will do this?

I haven't actually made a new friend in many years. There were some close work associates that seemed headed in a friendship direction previous to covid, but then they changed jobs. we exchange a few messages on linked in occasionally.

I've been trying to expand my social circle. seems like I am a grumpy snob and don't fit in anywhere....

What do you like to do?  If you are in a decent sized city there is likely a meetup for that.

In my case it’s running.  I have a group I meet on Tuesday that I found on meet up,  my Thursday group I found through a local running store.  When I am FIRE and have more time I plan to add in a hiking group and probably volunteer on trail builds.

CodingHare

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2022, 10:41:40 AM »


So a big focus for me has been to create found family.  I've joined local groups that meet weekly, and as COVID is lifting up I intend to do more.  I'm also looking for a shared interest group for my SO and I to make sure he's developing local community as well.

can you provide what/how you did this/will do this?

I haven't actually made a new friend in many years. There were some close work associates that seemed headed in a friendship direction previous to covid, but then they changed jobs. we exchange a few messages on linked in occasionally.

I've been trying to expand my social circle. seems like I am a grumpy snob and don't fit in anywhere....

Honestly it's been 100% hobby driven for me.  My current friend group is one ex-coworker that I still semi-regularly hang out with, and a group of knitters who meet weekly.  I'm also looking for a board game group (probably starting by looking at open game nights at local board game shops).  For me it's a balance because I'm definitely an introvert and need plenty on non-social time, but still want to make some reliable deep connections with people.

tygertygertyger

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2022, 11:04:08 AM »


So a big focus for me has been to create found family.  I've joined local groups that meet weekly, and as COVID is lifting up I intend to do more.  I'm also looking for a shared interest group for my SO and I to make sure he's developing local community as well.

can you provide what/how you did this/will do this?

I haven't actually made a new friend in many years. There were some close work associates that seemed headed in a friendship direction previous to covid, but then they changed jobs. we exchange a few messages on linked in occasionally.

I've been trying to expand my social circle. seems like I am a grumpy snob and don't fit in anywhere....

Honestly it's been 100% hobby driven for me.  My current friend group is one ex-coworker that I still semi-regularly hang out with, and a group of knitters who meet weekly.  I'm also looking for a board game group (probably starting by looking at open game nights at local board game shops).  For me it's a balance because I'm definitely an introvert and need plenty on non-social time, but still want to make some reliable deep connections with people.

That is a lovely idea. I had started volunteering in 2019 and my SO decided to join me. I thought I was going to make some real friends but the pandemic happened and then we moved. Now we're getting ready to start over on the social scene... at least I am. And I am also a serious introvert, so I'll have to figure out the best balance while getting to know people. 

Cranky

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2022, 03:05:00 PM »


So a big focus for me has been to create found family.  I've joined local groups that meet weekly, and as COVID is lifting up I intend to do more.  I'm also looking for a shared interest group for my SO and I to make sure he's developing local community as well.

can you provide what/how you did this/will do this?

I haven't actually made a new friend in many years. There were some close work associates that seemed headed in a friendship direction previous to covid, but then they changed jobs. we exchange a few messages on linked in occasionally.

I've been trying to expand my social circle. seems like I am a grumpy snob and don't fit in anywhere....

Honestly it's been 100% hobby driven for me.  My current friend group is one ex-coworker that I still semi-regularly hang out with, and a group of knitters who meet weekly.  I'm also looking for a board game group (probably starting by looking at open game nights at local board game shops).  For me it's a balance because I'm definitely an introvert and need plenty on non-social time, but still want to make some reliable deep connections with people.

Knitting is the best! We moved and I stepped right into a new group. We have tons of interests in common - gardening, walking, politics, books. It’s been much harder for dh, as he just doesn’t have an easy interest group.

economista

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2022, 03:29:04 PM »
I have lots of feelings on this topic. I usually think of my family, and the region I grew up in, as "old fashioned." I grew up in a very rural area and no one in my family had ever graduated from college. My entire extended family (grandpa is the oldest of 9 children) all lived within 10 square miles. Literally, all of my aunts, uncles, cousins, great-aunts and uncles, etc. I lived next door to my grandparents and saw them on a daily basis and other extended family on a monthly, if not weekly, basis. People graduate from high school, get jobs, get married, and start popping out babies (not necessarily in that order). Most of the women are stay at home moms or at the most work a part time job as needed to help bring in some extra income. This is also how a lot of my friends families were and most of the people I went to high school with still live in the same general area and are still friends in the same clique groups as before.

I went to college and then transferred across the country when the opportunity came up and have made my life on the other side of the country, which might as well be on the other side of the world. I have no family nearby and only 2 of my cousins have moved away from where our family lives. This means no one ever comes to visit me. I am required to do all of the trips back to see my family. For their parts, they don't understand why I moved away to begin with or why I haven't come back. I keep a guest room for other to visit, but now that I have a husband and children I have to stay in a hotel when I go back to visit my family.

When it comes to raising children, I really feel the lack of a support network. My husband and I have been in the same place for 13 years and we have a very strong group of friends so we still have our community. However, we don't have the same support network when it comes to raising our children. Growing up, there was always an aunt or uncle or grandparent or older cousin around to babysit or help out. That is something I don't have. I have friends here but none of them have kids and as well meaning as they try to be, they just don't get it. They want to be supportive and try their best but it doesn't take the place of having 5 stay-at-home-mom family members on speed dial who can drop everything and come help out at a moment's notice.

jeninco

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2022, 04:21:11 PM »
I have lots of feelings on this topic. I usually think of my family, and the region I grew up in, as "old fashioned." I grew up in a very rural area and no one in my family had ever graduated from college. My entire extended family (grandpa is the oldest of 9 children) all lived within 10 square miles. Literally, all of my aunts, uncles, cousins, great-aunts and uncles, etc. I lived next door to my grandparents and saw them on a daily basis and other extended family on a monthly, if not weekly, basis. People graduate from high school, get jobs, get married, and start popping out babies (not necessarily in that order). Most of the women are stay at home moms or at the most work a part time job as needed to help bring in some extra income. This is also how a lot of my friends families were and most of the people I went to high school with still live in the same general area and are still friends in the same clique groups as before.

I went to college and then transferred across the country when the opportunity came up and have made my life on the other side of the country, which might as well be on the other side of the world. I have no family nearby and only 2 of my cousins have moved away from where our family lives. This means no one ever comes to visit me. I am required to do all of the trips back to see my family. For their parts, they don't understand why I moved away to begin with or why I haven't come back. I keep a guest room for other to visit, but now that I have a husband and children I have to stay in a hotel when I go back to visit my family.

When it comes to raising children, I really feel the lack of a support network. My husband and I have been in the same place for 13 years and we have a very strong group of friends so we still have our community. However, we don't have the same support network when it comes to raising our children. Growing up, there was always an aunt or uncle or grandparent or older cousin around to babysit or help out. That is something I don't have. I have friends here but none of them have kids and as well meaning as they try to be, they just don't get it. They want to be supportive and try their best but it doesn't take the place of having 5 stay-at-home-mom family members on speed dial who can drop everything and come help out at a moment's notice.

I hear you, but also ... I only had to watch our families a couple of times with our kids to realize that I absolutely didn't want any of them to have supervisory authority over the kids for more than an hour or two at a time. (And then we went home and revised our wills to have someone more inline with our values named as guardians, should something happen to us.)

Our families mostly suck, so we're going with the "create your family of choice" team.

mistymoney

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2022, 05:25:57 PM »
seems a lot really rely on a partner for that cohesiveness. I guess I could try dating again, I hadn't been planning on it, lol.

LaineyAZ

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2022, 05:33:03 PM »
Agree with economista regarding family support.  When adult family members live in the same area it can be a huge life benefit - of course, with the usual disclaimer that assumes all are mentally and physically healthy and willing to help each other.

I had moved to AZ in 1981 to be near my parents.  When I had a child they were able to babysit part-time every week for 3 1/2 years.  They never asked for a nickel and they never once complained about it.  They were retired and he was a joy to them and it was a huge financial and emotional support for us.

Fast forward to 2017 when I retired and my own first grandchild was born.  I made the same deal:  I would babysit part of the work week for free.  Since 2018 that has included a second grandchild, so I'm now watching 2 preschool age girls.  They have bonded with me and their great-uncles who live nearby (who have no children or grandchildren of their own) and are a joy to all of us.   

Apart from help in child rearing, I've seen extended family help each other in little ways:  transportation, a place to stay temporarily, a small loan, assistance during serious illness, teaching and trading skills like plumbing, tiling, minor electrical, car repair, tutoring, etc. 

I think it makes life so much easier than trying to navigate and keep your family afloat and moving forward on your own little life raft.  Living in a community of
biological family, or just close friends and neighbors, that form a mutual aid society is a life-changer.

Villanelle

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2022, 06:21:51 PM »
For those talking about family support raising children, if the question is about where to move at an older age, are the grandkids usually mostly grown, or at least out of the stage where they need constant supervision?  OP was asking about selling the house where "offspring grew up", which I took to mean the grandparent generation was moving on once their children were adults.  Now depending on when that happens, they might be moving away from *being* the childcare support system, but they aren't moving away from needing it.  He also mentioned "elderly parents", so it seemed to me like he was talking about the 65+ set moving, not middle aged people with young children moving away.  Again, I get that this may remove that option for their adult offspring to have them watching the grandchildren, but it isn't someone choosing to move away from the grandparents and not have as much hands-on support because of it.

Arbitrage

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2022, 08:22:25 AM »
I've been mostly on an island when it comes to family since leaving home for college, and have lived in 7 different metro areas since then.  Most of the rest of my family has stayed put, relatively speaking.  My wife's family is spread out. 

Would it be nice to be geographically close to my family?  Sure.  I don't particularly want to live where they live, though, and my wife REALLY doesn't want to live where they live (due to the climate).  I did have a pretty robust extended-family experience growing up, with cousins and grandparents nearby and at every holiday, but it's sadly mostly splintered anyway due to deaths and interpersonal conflicts. 

Moving to coast-FIRE actually helped the family situation a bit, as we moved to a location that's 1.5-2 hours away from a chunk of my wife's family, and we're building those relationships up. 

The bigger challenge has been the disruption of the community of friends that we had found.  We are slowly finding our way in the new city, but of course you don't replace decades-long friends overnight.  Unfortunately, while we've visited a few times, most of them seem to have the attitude that since we moved away, it's our job to do the visiting.  That will inevitably lead to the degradation of our existing friendships over time; it's already our job to do the visiting of family, and we can't maintain one-way friendships on top of it.  It's sad, but unless they start reciprocating, that's how I see this going.

patchyfacialhair

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2022, 09:51:20 AM »
Family has been the sole reason my wife and I have made so much financial progress while raising 2 kids. My parents moved from 1000 miles away to be within 10 minutes of us after my first was born. My wife's sister is 15 minutes away. We're great friends with our next door neighbors which has come in handy in a pinch.

Fortunately my mother has been able to take care of both of my girls while they nursed, and we have a family friend that we pay a very friendly rate for normal childcare once they're done with nursing. She used to do in home care for a ton of kids but has wound it down to just 2 families. Next year begins our first foray into full time pre-k for our oldest, so that will be just substituting one expense for the other, but we've basically been paying 40% of the going local rate for childcare at licensed facilities.

This has allowed us to max out all the usual suspects for retirement savings while still having the ability to travel occasionally or not sweat emergency expenses.

Unfortunately my mother-in-law, also local to us, has had health problems over the last few years and has only been able to take care of the girls a handful of times, and that was a couple years ago. I know she'd like to see them more.

We consider moving every now and then, someplace warm like AZ or FL, especially since our house is worth like 700k now when we bought it for 400k, but it's the family, community, and church connections and community that keep us where we're at.

wageslave23

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2022, 06:48:36 AM »
For those referencing the monetary savings from free childcare - its easily quantifiable right?  Daycare for two kids is about $20k a year, give or take $5k.  Full time daycare is for about 5 years, so $100k saved.  Maybe another $10k per year for another 5 years, so another $50k.  This assumes full time daycare is needed and that family is watching the kids instead full time for free.  $150k is a good chunk of money, but not really life changing, especially compared to moving from a HCOLA to a LCOLA.

We have been considering moving, but our main hesitation is the emotional impact on our parents (grandparents).  Free babysitting is great, but its mostly a convenience factor.

economista

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2022, 06:57:14 AM »
For those referencing the monetary savings from free childcare - its easily quantifiable right?  Daycare for two kids is about $20k a year, give or take $5k.  Full time daycare is for about 5 years, so $100k saved.  Maybe another $10k per year for another 5 years, so another $50k.  This assumes full time daycare is needed and that family is watching the kids instead full time for free.  $150k is a good chunk of money, but not really life changing, especially compared to moving from a HCOLA to a LCOLA.

We have been considering moving, but our main hesitation is the emotional impact on our parents (grandparents).  Free babysitting is great, but its mostly a convenience factor.

It depends on where you are. In my area daycare for one child is $22,000 per year. To have both of my girls in daycare would be $40k per year. (This is at the daycare a few blocks away. I'm sure there are other cheaper options like in-home care, but this is what the center we looked at charged 3 years ago when my oldest was gestating. I'm sure it has actually gone up since then).

wageslave23

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2022, 07:09:17 AM »
For those referencing the monetary savings from free childcare - its easily quantifiable right?  Daycare for two kids is about $20k a year, give or take $5k.  Full time daycare is for about 5 years, so $100k saved.  Maybe another $10k per year for another 5 years, so another $50k.  This assumes full time daycare is needed and that family is watching the kids instead full time for free.  $150k is a good chunk of money, but not really life changing, especially compared to moving from a HCOLA to a LCOLA.

We have been considering moving, but our main hesitation is the emotional impact on our parents (grandparents).  Free babysitting is great, but its mostly a convenience factor.

It depends on where you are. In my area daycare for one child is $22,000 per year. To have both of my girls in daycare would be $40k per year. (This is at the daycare a few blocks away. I'm sure there are other cheaper options like in-home care, but this is what the center we looked at charged 3 years ago when my oldest was gestating. I'm sure it has actually gone up since then).

Well assuming we are discussing moving to a LCOL area, I doubt daycare expenses would be that high.

economista

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2022, 07:24:29 AM »
For those referencing the monetary savings from free childcare - its easily quantifiable right?  Daycare for two kids is about $20k a year, give or take $5k.  Full time daycare is for about 5 years, so $100k saved.  Maybe another $10k per year for another 5 years, so another $50k.  This assumes full time daycare is needed and that family is watching the kids instead full time for free.  $150k is a good chunk of money, but not really life changing, especially compared to moving from a HCOLA to a LCOLA.

We have been considering moving, but our main hesitation is the emotional impact on our parents (grandparents).  Free babysitting is great, but its mostly a convenience factor.

It depends on where you are. In my area daycare for one child is $22,000 per year. To have both of my girls in daycare would be $40k per year. (This is at the daycare a few blocks away. I'm sure there are other cheaper options like in-home care, but this is what the center we looked at charged 3 years ago when my oldest was gestating. I'm sure it has actually gone up since then).

Well assuming we are discussing moving to a LCOL area, I doubt daycare expenses would be that high.

That is a valid point.

jrhampt

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #39 on: April 14, 2022, 10:26:38 AM »
I have 4 siblings, and they and my parents all live in different states/countries; not a single one of them lives closer than a full day's drive of any of the others, and most are a lot farther than that.  They are spread out all over the west coast, the midwest, the south, and Europe (and I'm on the east coast).  It would not be possible to live near all of them.  We do live within an hour of my spouse's parents, and we have a good friend base here - although we have lived in multiple states ourselves, we have been here the longest. 

One way I keep in touch with out of state friends and relatives is that I work remotely, as do several of them, so we do a few "working vacations" each year where we go and stay with each other for a week or so, working during the day, and spending time together when we're done working.  This stretches vacation time and makes it easier to spend time with lots of far away friends.

Cranky

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2022, 12:33:28 PM »
For those referencing the monetary savings from free childcare - its easily quantifiable right?  Daycare for two kids is about $20k a year, give or take $5k.  Full time daycare is for about 5 years, so $100k saved.  Maybe another $10k per year for another 5 years, so another $50k.  This assumes full time daycare is needed and that family is watching the kids instead full time for free.  $150k is a good chunk of money, but not really life changing, especially compared to moving from a HCOLA to a LCOLA.

We have been considering moving, but our main hesitation is the emotional impact on our parents (grandparents).  Free babysitting is great, but its mostly a convenience factor.

It depends on where you are. In my area daycare for one child is $22,000 per year. To have both of my girls in daycare would be $40k per year. (This is at the daycare a few blocks away. I'm sure there are other cheaper options like in-home care, but this is what the center we looked at charged 3 years ago when my oldest was gestating. I'm sure it has actually gone up since then).

Well assuming we are discussing moving to a LCOL area, I doubt daycare expenses would be that high.

My experience was that LCOL areas offered many fewer center based care options, at any price, because more families relied on family care.

LiveLean

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Re: connections - family, home, community, etc.
« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2022, 01:53:11 PM »
We've been in our home 23 years. We barely know the people two doors down on either side. Three doors down? I couldn't tell you their names. We don't know the next-door neighbors on either side as well as would have been expected a generation ago. Sure, we have larger lots and live on a busy road, but still.

I can remember as a kid in the late '70s knowing everyone in a two-block radius. My mother would have to call neighbors around dinner time to locate my then 3-year-old sister, who wandered the neighborhood. Inevitably Sis was having dinner with another family, who sent her home after dinner, in the dark. All of which is hard to imagine on so many levels today.