Coffee vs Beer

[RethinkTheRatRace]

There was a discussion happening the other day on my post about coffee (the post was reported and deleted because I posted a link to my blog in it, even though it clearly wasn't spam and there were solid posts discussing costs of coffee) and someone (sorry, I dont remember who it was) brought up an interesting point about beer. Full disclosure, I have no dog in this race, because I buy coffee about as often as I buy beer, which less than once a month at most.

So the question is: Why is craft beer not as bastardized demonized around here as coffee?

[alexpkeaton]

What do you mean, "bastardized"?

[J Boogie]

It's not about the beverage, it's about the retail markup.  MMM himself is a big proponent of having espresso drinks you make yourself.  With beer, you don't have to buy beer at a bar, and if you do, most here agree it's a bad financial decision if done regularly. 

Most craft beers can be purchased for $1.25-$1.75 for 12 oz.  A medium (grande) latte at starbucks is $4.



BTW, I don't think you mean bastardized.  I think you mean demonized or something to that effect.  Bastardizing craft beer sounds more like you're mixing it with bud light.

[dycker1978]

There was also a post from MMM about making beer, as well as several on the forum. 

[Fudge102]

You can easily make good coffee at home for cheap.

Good beer is another thing entirely.  At best you're looking at about 4 weeks minimum.  More than likely longer.  So while it can be done, it takes far longer to reap the rewards.  Not to mention the equipment and time to produce and bottle said brew.

For people like me who enjoy brewing, it's worth it.  But it is no where thee same as trading a quick starbucks coffee for a quick french press coffee.

[RethinkTheRatRace]

What do you mean, "bastardized"?

I guess I should give some context. Someone commented and said that buying Starbucks could "NEVER be Mustachian!" But craft beer is not only condoned, but sometimes promoted. As far as I can tell, they're the same. They cost around the same, they both have around the same health benefits, etc.

It's not about the beverage, it's about the retail markup.  MMM himself is a big proponent of having espresso drinks you make yourself.  With beer, you don't have to buy beer at a bar, and if you do, most here agree it's a bad financial decision if done regularly. 

Most craft beers can be purchased for $1.25-$1.75 for 12 oz.  A medium (grande) latte at starbucks is $4.



BTW, I don't think you mean bastardized.  I think you mean demonized or something to that effect.  Bastardizing craft beer sounds more like you're mixing it with bud light.

I might not be looking in the right places, but I have't found any craft beers for around that price.

I agree, maybe demonized is the word I meant.

There was also a post from MMM about making beer, as well as several on the forum. 

This is what I mean, the supplies to make your own beer is pretty crazy and costly, but you can make your own coffee much cheaper and with less costly and fewer supplies.

[RethinkTheRatRace]

You can easily make good coffee at home for cheap.

Good beer is another thing entirely.  At best you're looking at about 4 weeks minimum.  More than likely longer.  So while it can be done, it takes far longer to reap the rewards.  Not to mention the equipment and time to produce and bottle said brew.

For people like me who enjoy brewing, it's worth it.  But it is no where thee same as trading a quick starbucks coffee for a quick french press coffee.

I think this is what I meant. But either way, it seems similar.
Starbucks (or other coffee shop) vs Bar, Brewery, etc
or
Making craft coffee at home (french press, ibrik, etc) vs brewing your own beer

Like I said, I'm not for either of them really, but I just find the two very similar.

[A Definite Beta Guy]

Eating out is pretty much always anti-frugal, no matter how you do it. This is the same whether you get a latte at Starbucks or go out to a bar/brewery. Markups are huge.

So, in the way you're talking about them? Not different at all.

If you're talking about "acceptable breaks from frugality," the two are different. Starbucks is usually not a social experience, but a quick-run for a caffeine hit. It's directly comparable to eating at McDonald's by yourself. Almost never a good idea.

Going to get a beer at Happy Hour with your co-workers or friends is a costly social experience, but it offers a different experience than hitting up Starbucks. Probably shouldn't be doing it if you are in a debt emergency, but a FIRE'd person could enjoy happy hour drinks with friends and not feel TOO guilty (there are better ways of spending the cash if possible, though).

[GuitarStv]

Getting coffee or a beer is even worse than eating out from a frugality standpoint.  They're purely frivolous and unnecessary expenditures for addictive psychoactive drugs.  They're both pretty silly.

[marielle]

Both are literally pissing away your money. :)

I may have beer but very rarely and in a social setting.

[J Boogie]

What do you mean, "bastardized"?

I guess I should give some context. Someone commented and said that buying Starbucks could "NEVER be Mustachian!" But craft beer is not only condoned, but sometimes promoted. As far as I can tell, they're the same. They cost around the same, they both have around the same health benefits, etc.

It's not about the beverage, it's about the retail markup.  MMM himself is a big proponent of having espresso drinks you make yourself.  With beer, you don't have to buy beer at a bar, and if you do, most here agree it's a bad financial decision if done regularly. 

Most craft beers can be purchased for $1.25-$1.75 for 12 oz.  A medium (grande) latte at starbucks is $4.



BTW, I don't think you mean bastardized.  I think you mean demonized or something to that effect.  Bastardizing craft beer sounds more like you're mixing it with bud light.

I might not be looking in the right places, but I have't found any craft beers for around that price.

I agree, maybe demonized is the word I meant.

There was also a post from MMM about making beer, as well as several on the forum. 

This is what I mean, the supplies to make your own beer is pretty crazy and costly, but you can make your own coffee much cheaper and with less costly and fewer supplies.

$10 for a 6 pack seems pretty normal for craft beer.

[Cromacster]

Getting coffee or a beer is even worse than eating out from a frugality standpoint.  They're purely frivolous and unnecessary expenditures for addictive psychoactive drugs.  They're both pretty silly.

Food too.  Any food beyond a flavorless gruel that provides all necessities to survive and thrive is pretty silly in a modern world.  Flavor is a luxury.

I guess I don't feel either coffee or beer is demonized.  It's the thoughtless spending on either that is ridiculed.  $4.00 at starbucks is silly when it's <$1 at home and less time.  Same with beer.  But that doesn't stop me from buying a fancy coffee once in a while or going to a pub for happy hour.

[dycker1978]

What do you mean, "bastardized"?

I guess I should give some context. Someone commented and said that buying Starbucks could "NEVER be Mustachian!" But craft beer is not only condoned, but sometimes promoted. As far as I can tell, they're the same. They cost around the same, they both have around the same health benefits, etc.

It's not about the beverage, it's about the retail markup.  MMM himself is a big proponent of having espresso drinks you make yourself.  With beer, you don't have to buy beer at a bar, and if you do, most here agree it's a bad financial decision if done regularly. 

Most craft beers can be purchased for $1.25-$1.75 for 12 oz.  A medium (grande) latte at starbucks is $4.



BTW, I don't think you mean bastardized.  I think you mean demonized or something to that effect.  Bastardizing craft beer sounds more like you're mixing it with bud light.

I might not be looking in the right places, but I have't found any craft beers for around that price.

I agree, maybe demonized is the word I meant.

There was also a post from MMM about making beer, as well as several on the forum. 

This is what I mean, the supplies to make your own beer is pretty crazy and costly, but you can make your own coffee much cheaper and with less costly and fewer supplies.

I disagree.  My startup for all the equipment needed was about $15 on craigslist.  I brew from kits, that cost about $25 here,  just add water and let it sit for 3-4weeks and tada, beer.  Way better then the generic swill you can but at the store too.

$25 makes about 23L of beer so $1 a L

[Andere]

I think Frugal and MMM people have a strong appreciation and acceptance of DIY, even when DIY is a bit more expensive because it's considered a valuable experience.

[SingleMomDebt]

I thought you were going to make me choose. Whoosh, that was close. ;)

[Bracken_Joy]

I think partially because very few people are stopping at a bar before work, and on their lunch break, and on their way home to get a craft beer, whereas people *do* do this with fancy coffee drinks. The culture of "grab a beer in a bar" isn't as common as "grab a coffee on a break", and therefore less needs to be written about it.

Either way, people should be drinking stuff at home, with the best cost to enjoyment ratio possible.

I thought you were going to make me choose. Whoosh, that was close. ;)

Ha, right? I was like:

[DarkandStormy]

I mean, it's all dependent on what your FIRE goals are, how much you want to restrict your "excess" spending beyond cost of living, etc.

We "splurge" occasionally on craft beer (probably less than once a month).  We usually load up on decent beer at the grocery store when we find good rebate deals going on and/or ibotta deals.  We don't drink a lot, usually just a few on the weekends at most.  Collectively, we might go through a 12 pack in a month, if that.  For special celebrations (new job, birthdays, etc.) we'll go to a local brewery.

For me, it's the quality of the upcharge.  I can home brew something that's nearly as good as what I can get at Starbucks.  I can't (or really, don't have the equipment/time/patience) to home brew a good craft beer, and what I can find at the grocery store usually don't compare to a local brewery's taps.

[YttriumNitrate]

One other difference is that going to Starbucks every morning for a $4 cup of coffee is common and often viewed as socially acceptable. Going out to a bar every night for a evening for a $4 beer* is not as not common and not usually viewed as socially acceptable.

**If you're going out every night, you'd know where the good deals are.

[Zikoris]

I think they're both stupid, and consume neither.

[DrumAllDay]

I roast and brew my own coffee and it is the best, freshest coffee I can drink. It's about $6/lb and green coffee beans can last up to a year so you can buy in bulk.

The local coffee roaster in my town sells coffee for over $15 a pound.

I am not a beer drinker/brewer so I am not sure if brewing your own beer would be comparable to roasting coffee-as far as cost and skill level go. After talking to a friend who brews his own beer though, I think roasting coffee is much more simple. I use a old whirly pop popcorn popper on a small propane stove.

Any food/beverage will obviously be cheaper at home than ordering out. If you go the DIY rout for coffee or beer, you at least learn a skill, know exactly how and when it was made, and will more than likely save some money.

[Bracken_Joy]

I roast and brew my own coffee and it is the best, freshest coffee I can drink. It's about $6/lb and green coffee beans can last up to a year so you can buy in bulk.

The local coffee roaster in my town sells coffee for over $15 a pound.

I am not a beer drinker/brewer so I am not sure if brewing your own beer would be comparable to roasting coffee-as far as cost and skill level go. After talking to a friend who brews his own beer though, I think roasting coffee is much more simple. I use a old whirly pop popcorn popper on a small propane stove.

Any food/beverage will obviously be cheaper at home than ordering out. If you go the DIY rout for coffee or beer, you at least learn a skill, know exactly how and when it was made, and will more than likely save some money.

I didn't realize green beans lasted so long. Where do you source them from for $6/lb? That's great.

[Cromacster]

Jesus Christ, there are some unbelievable snobs posting in this thread.  I'm glad i'm not friends with some of the people here.

You must drink wine.

Relax and have a coffee stout.  I'd suggest the Surly Coffee Bender (actually I think that's a porter) or a Stone Coffee Milk Stout.

[Emerald]

Coffee is my reason for living. 

[mm1970]

This is an interesting topic.

I know a few people who brew beer or mead, make wine, make cider for fun.

When MMM did his little thing about making cider, I admit I was intrigued.

I don't really see a huge difference between Starbucks etc. and craft brew beer.  It's all in the frequency.  I mean, you can get a cup of coffee (plain coffee) for $2.  You don't have to be spending $4.  And you don't have to buy one every day.

The reason that I haven't tried making cider or anything, is that I think it would increase my consumption of it.  Having beer in the house, or cider, or an open bottle of wine is an invitation to drink.  As a middle-aged woman, I simply cannot do that anymore and maintain a reasonable weight. So my intake of beer, wine, etc is strictly in social settings.  (And I love wine.  I belong to two wine clubs for local wineries.  I just take the bottles to social events.)

I do make my own coffee, but only drink 1 cup a day (and I prefer our pre-ground cheap coffee in the can from Costco to the expensive stuff we have at work).  My treat, one could say, is soda water using the soda stream.  Even though I buy the canisters with a 20% off coupon, it's still paying for unnecessary carbonation.

[A Definite Beta Guy]

What do you mean, "bastardized"?

I guess I should give some context. Someone commented and said that buying Starbucks could "NEVER be Mustachian!" But craft beer is not only condoned, but sometimes promoted. As far as I can tell, they're the same. They cost around the same, they both have around the same health benefits, etc.

It's not about the beverage, it's about the retail markup.  MMM himself is a big proponent of having espresso drinks you make yourself.  With beer, you don't have to buy beer at a bar, and if you do, most here agree it's a bad financial decision if done regularly. 

Most craft beers can be purchased for $1.25-$1.75 for 12 oz.  A medium (grande) latte at starbucks is $4.



BTW, I don't think you mean bastardized.  I think you mean demonized or something to that effect.  Bastardizing craft beer sounds more like you're mixing it with bud light.

I might not be looking in the right places, but I have't found any craft beers for around that price.

I agree, maybe demonized is the word I meant.

There was also a post from MMM about making beer, as well as several on the forum. 

This is what I mean, the supplies to make your own beer is pretty crazy and costly, but you can make your own coffee much cheaper and with less costly and fewer supplies.

$10 for a 6 pack seems pretty normal for craft beer.

That seems to be about the standard for craft beers around here. That's pretty pricey, though.

My supermarket will occasionally have 12-packs on sales for $10. This weekend is actually one. I love Oktoberfest of all stripes.

[Lan Mandragoran]

Getting coffee or a beer is even worse than eating out from a frugality standpoint.  They're purely frivolous and unnecessary expenditures for addictive psychoactive drugs.  They're both pretty silly.

Black coffee is actually pretty useful when used wisely. From a performance standpoint it is a very useful stimulant to help with focus, motivation, physical strength when tired, even things like grip strength gets improved when drinking large quantities of coffee.  It also has antioxidant qualities similar to what green tea or other herbal tea's promote and have been shown to improve body composition as well as blood sugar in diabetics.  You can run into some issues where your body hasn't adapted yet and doesnt deal with all the extra caffiene well, spiking cortisol, but that generally gets regulated as you get a tolerance or if you use smaller doses.
 Used to be quite nerdy on finding good information on health :)

I cant spare the time atm to go out and find the research (at work and behind on like 3 projects :( ) on it, but if your interested read up on the effects of coffee (alternatively green coffee bean extract). Charles Polinquin runs a very high quality site that has a few articles on it http://main.poliquingroup.com/ArticlesMultimedia/Articles.aspx

[Cromacster]

What do you mean, "bastardized"?

I guess I should give some context. Someone commented and said that buying Starbucks could "NEVER be Mustachian!" But craft beer is not only condoned, but sometimes promoted. As far as I can tell, they're the same. They cost around the same, they both have around the same health benefits, etc.

It's not about the beverage, it's about the retail markup.  MMM himself is a big proponent of having espresso drinks you make yourself.  With beer, you don't have to buy beer at a bar, and if you do, most here agree it's a bad financial decision if done regularly. 

Most craft beers can be purchased for $1.25-$1.75 for 12 oz.  A medium (grande) latte at starbucks is $4.



BTW, I don't think you mean bastardized.  I think you mean demonized or something to that effect.  Bastardizing craft beer sounds more like you're mixing it with bud light.

I might not be looking in the right places, but I have't found any craft beers for around that price.

I agree, maybe demonized is the word I meant.

There was also a post from MMM about making beer, as well as several on the forum. 

This is what I mean, the supplies to make your own beer is pretty crazy and costly, but you can make your own coffee much cheaper and with less costly and fewer supplies.

$10 for a 6 pack seems pretty normal for craft beer.

That seems to be about the standard for craft beers around here. That's pretty pricey, though.

My supermarket will occasionally have 12-packs on sales for $10. This weekend is actually one. I love Oktoberfest of all stripes.

Mmmm Märzen, august to october is the best for seasonal beers.

[DrumAllDay]

I roast and brew my own coffee and it is the best, freshest coffee I can drink. It's about $6/lb and green coffee beans can last up to a year so you can buy in bulk.

The local coffee roaster in my town sells coffee for over $15 a pound.

I am not a beer drinker/brewer so I am not sure if brewing your own beer would be comparable to roasting coffee-as far as cost and skill level go. After talking to a friend who brews his own beer though, I think roasting coffee is much more simple. I use a old whirly pop popcorn popper on a small propane stove.

Any food/beverage will obviously be cheaper at home than ordering out. If you go the DIY rout for coffee or beer, you at least learn a skill, know exactly how and when it was made, and will more than likely save some money.

I didn't realize green beans lasted so long. Where do you source them from for $6/lb? That's great.

I buy from https://www.sweetmarias.com/

They have a huge selection. The higher quantity you buy the cheaper it usually is. I have bought some coffees in the 5$/lb range

[swinginbeef]

Relax and have a coffee stout.  I'd suggest the Surly Coffee Bender (actually I think that's a porter) or a Stone Coffee Milk Stout.

They (Surly) call it an American Brown, but the coffee really makes it taste more roasty dark Porter. The regular Bender is much smoother and sweeter like a traditional Brown. Delicious.

[FrugalToque]

I recently made a batch of beer.

Having acquired the carboys free of charge and having purchased all of the other equipment for $40 (from some guy who couldn't make it work properly, I guess), my overhead is not particularly high.

I admit sterilization is a bit of a pain in the ass, since you need to be pretty meticulous about it, and I'd like to get a proper control valve to make bottling the beer easier, but it's still acceptable for the savings and quality of beer.

That said: the cost per batch is $43.99 for a giant bag of wort and a yeast packet.  Follow the instructions, let it bubble away in the pail, transfer to carboy for more bubbling.  Two or three weeks later: 40 to 50 (I don't remember exactly) pint-size bottles of delicious cream ale.  Grandpa Toque even prefers it to his own brands, so it must be good.

For the amount of beer I drink, this will last me somewhere between 6 months and a year, for probably less than a dollar per pint.

Toque.

[CRG]

I roast and brew my own coffee and it is the best, freshest coffee I can drink. It's about $6/lb and green coffee beans can last up to a year so you can buy in bulk.

The local coffee roaster in my town sells coffee for over $15 a pound.

I am not a beer drinker/brewer so I am not sure if brewing your own beer would be comparable to roasting coffee-as far as cost and skill level go. After talking to a friend who brews his own beer though, I think roasting coffee is much more simple. I use a old whirly pop popcorn popper on a small propane stove.

Any food/beverage will obviously be cheaper at home than ordering out. If you go the DIY rout for coffee or beer, you at least learn a skill, know exactly how and when it was made, and will more than likely save some money.

I didn't realize green beans lasted so long. Where do you source them from for $6/lb? That's great.

I buy from https://www.sweetmarias.com/

They have a huge selection. The higher quantity you buy the cheaper it usually is. I have bought some coffees in the 5$/lb range

I've been buying green beans via this group for many years at prices even lower than Sweet Marias - http://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/

[LiveLean]

This is where I'm kick-ass mustachian.

I had my last beer in 2006. So I've never had a "craft" beer. I still drink an occasional glass of wine. It's amazing how the craft beer snobs are worse than the wine snobs.

And thanks to my dad waking up at 6 a.m. during my childhood and commencing immediate coffee chugging and chain smoking, I woke up to those horrible smells every freakin' day. Which is why I've never had a cigarette nor a sip of coffee.

[GenXbiker]

You don't have to pay $4 for a cup of coffee.  I never have, not even at Starbucks.  I pay just over a $1 at a nearby restaurant and pay even less for the coffee I make myself.

I avoid beer these days, but I used to put down some serious quantities.

[GuitarStv]

Getting coffee or a beer is even worse than eating out from a frugality standpoint.  They're purely frivolous and unnecessary expenditures for addictive psychoactive drugs.  They're both pretty silly.

Black coffee is actually pretty useful when used wisely. From a performance standpoint it is a very useful stimulant to help with focus, motivation, physical strength when tired, even things like grip strength gets improved when drinking large quantities of coffee.  It also has antioxidant qualities similar to what green tea or other herbal tea's promote and have been shown to improve body composition as well as blood sugar in diabetics.  You can run into some issues where your body hasn't adapted yet and doesnt deal with all the extra caffiene well, spiking cortisol, but that generally gets regulated as you get a tolerance or if you use smaller doses.
 Used to be quite nerdy on finding good information on health :)

I cant spare the time atm to go out and find the research (at work and behind on like 3 projects :( ) on it, but if your interested read up on the effects of coffee (alternatively green coffee bean extract). Charles Polinquin runs a very high quality site that has a few articles on it http://main.poliquingroup.com/ArticlesMultimedia/Articles.aspx

I'm well aware of the performance enhancing aspects of caffeine, and when I use it tend to use it for that purpose.  It's still a frivolous expense though.  :P

[Bruinguy]

As far as being smart with your money the answer is don't buy it where you are going to consume it (i.e., coffee shop or bar).  In each case, you are getting the "same" thing for much less!

For coffee, the basic result is to buy beans at the grocery store and brew it yourself.  Perhaps the "hardcore" answer is to roast your own beans.

For beer, even "craft beer", the basic result is to buy it at the grocery or liquor store.  Perhaps the "hardcore" answer is to brew it yourself.

I guess the alternative "hardcore" answer is to not drink either at all!

[partgypsy]

I've gotten to point don't drink coffee daily (or even weekly). There are weeks I do not buy beer at the store (and my social life of going for beers is pretty much gone at this point). I do drink tea, but as you can get 50 teabags for like $4, not a great expense. Now, if I can only do something about my wine drinking...
More than one person  suggested getting the boxed wine because it is much more economical. My issues with that, if you buy 1.5 or 3L of it, and what if you don't like it? Also to me it seems more of an experience to open a bottle of wine with a friend or for dinner, and I can judge better how much I am drinking, while with a box, it's harder to judge. And it's wine in a cardboard box. I know, I need to get over it. 

[clarkfan1979]

It's not about the beverage, it's about the retail markup.  MMM himself is a big proponent of having espresso drinks you make yourself.  With beer, you don't have to buy beer at a bar, and if you do, most here agree it's a bad financial decision if done regularly. 

Most craft beers can be purchased for $1.25-$1.75 for 12 oz.  A medium (grande) latte at starbucks is $4.



BTW, I don't think you mean bastardized.  I think you mean demonized or something to that effect.  Bastardizing craft beer sounds more like you're mixing it with bud light.

MMM isn't against coffee or beer. He is against buying them at "restaurants"

There is a bigger mark-up on coffee, so he is probably more against coffee at Starbucks than a beer at a restaurant.

I can make a pot of coffee at home for about $10 cents or get a Venti coffee at Starbucks for $2.50-3.00

[Hedge_87]

I like coffee... I like beer... I am fine with just regular Folgers coffee and only buy coffee when I am out on the road working and that is from a gas station which is usually less than $1. Beer on the other hand is one of my hobbies and I built an all electric brewery in my garage where I can brew up to 10 gallons at a time and have room to ferment 20 gallons at the moment. I enjoy the shit out of brewing beer, consuming beer, and having others consume my beer. Is it cost effective? No but it sure is fun.

[Scandium]

What do you mean, "bastardized"?

I guess I should give some context. Someone commented and said that buying Starbucks could "NEVER be Mustachian!" But craft beer is not only condoned, but sometimes promoted. As far as I can tell, they're the same. They cost around the same, they both have around the same health benefits, etc.

It's not about the beverage, it's about the retail markup.  MMM himself is a big proponent of having espresso drinks you make yourself.  With beer, you don't have to buy beer at a bar, and if you do, most here agree it's a bad financial decision if done regularly. 

Most craft beers can be purchased for $1.25-$1.75 for 12 oz.  A medium (grande) latte at starbucks is $4.



BTW, I don't think you mean bastardized.  I think you mean demonized or something to that effect.  Bastardizing craft beer sounds more like you're mixing it with bud light.

I might not be looking in the right places, but I have't found any craft beers for around that price.

I agree, maybe demonized is the word I meant.

There was also a post from MMM about making beer, as well as several on the forum. 

This is what I mean, the supplies to make your own beer is pretty crazy and costly, but you can make your own coffee much cheaper and with less costly and fewer supplies.

I disagree.  My startup for all the equipment needed was about $15 on craigslist.  I brew from kits, that cost about $25 here,  just add water and let it sit for 3-4weeks and tada, beer.  Way better then the generic swill you can but at the store too.

$25 makes about 23L of beer so $1 a L

You get a 6 gallon batch from a $25 kit? What, no way. That can't have much hops in it.. Make an ipa and it's quickly $50+, for 4-5 gallons. Not to mention spending half a Sunday, and more, to make the beer. Often great, but also not the same as many craft beers. In my experience home brewing is more a hobby, the result is rarely if ever cheaper than equivalent craft beer.

Don't make a light ale and compare price to a barrel aged stout..

[RethinkTheRatRace]

There are some very interesting points here which is what I was hoping for.

Brb...going to buy coffee beans and a brew kit lol.

[pigpen]

To me, the question of how "mustachian" I am or am not is pretty irrelevant. I don't ride a bike everywhere (non-mustachian). I did give away my car and use public transportation (mustachian). I got rid of cable and bought a tv antenna (mustachian) but pay $17/month to Netflix as a substitute (mustachian compared to paying more for cable, but not nearly as mustachian as not having Netflix at all). I drink craft beer sometimes (non-mustachian), cheap beer sometimes (more mustachian than craft beer but not as mustachian as drinking no beer). And so on.

I've cut my expenditures to the point where we save approximately 60-80% of our income every month. As a result, we'll soon be able to quit the whole have-to-work-to-make-a-living routine, the thought of which makes us both happy. Living up to the continually moving target of what's mustachian and what's not mustachian doesn't make us happy, so we don't worry about it. If we cut all expenditures except for things directly related to supporting our basic life functions, I guess I'd be more mustachian and could quit earlier, but I choose not to do that.

I say, take off your wwmmmd bracelet, strike your own balances, and enjoy life while you can.

[Michael in ABQ]

The rare times I'm in a restaurant and tempted to order a beer I usually can't bring myself to pay $4-5 for something I can buy in the store for $1.50. I've done a couple of batches of homebrew and had mixed results. First batch was pretty good, second batch ok, third batch (cider) pretty bad. Once you add up the cost of the supplies (not including initial investment in equipment) it's probably around $1.00+/12 oz. beer. However, you're also going to be spending several hours between brewing, bottling, and cleaning which if your time has any value quickly makes it uneconomical. Of course it can be an enjoyable process but it's not like you can go make good quality beer for $0.25-$0.50 a bottle while you can brew good coffee for a fraction of what you would pay at a restaurant (especially Starbucks). 

[partgypsy]

I don't get the buying expensive coffee on the go deal. I either like getting up early enough to have a cup of tea or coffee, and enjoy on my back porch. Or just forgoing it, because by the time I'm at work I'm awake anyways. But im the opposite with beer. I'm not often in the mood to drink beer at home, but if I am out with friends, I'd like to have a beer, it's part of the experience.not something I do often at this point but for me worth the price.

[Davids]

Lucky for me I hate the taste of coffee so that is never an expense for me. And if I liked coffee we have free Keurig coffee at work so I am sure that would get me my fill.

Now I do love beer and do try different craft brews but that is buying 6 packs and not at a bar. I know I could try to my own beer but I do not feel like it. So if I am a little antimustachian on this then oh well, cannot be mustachian on everything.

[Khaetra]

Coffee is my reason for living.

Mine too!  If I don't have my daily cuppa, things could get ugly.  I'm not much of a beer drinker, though I do like to have an Angry Orchard Cinnful Apple when watching football every once in awhile.

[Lan Mandragoran]

Getting coffee or a beer is even worse than eating out from a frugality standpoint.  They're purely frivolous and unnecessary expenditures for addictive psychoactive drugs.  They're both pretty silly.

Black coffee is actually pretty useful when used wisely. From a performance standpoint it is a very useful stimulant to help with focus, motivation, physical strength when tired, even things like grip strength gets improved when drinking large quantities of coffee.  It also has antioxidant qualities similar to what green tea or other herbal tea's promote and have been shown to improve body composition as well as blood sugar in diabetics.  You can run into some issues where your body hasn't adapted yet and doesnt deal with all the extra caffiene well, spiking cortisol, but that generally gets regulated as you get a tolerance or if you use smaller doses.
 Used to be quite nerdy on finding good information on health :)

I cant spare the time atm to go out and find the research (at work and behind on like 3 projects :( ) on it, but if your interested read up on the effects of coffee (alternatively green coffee bean extract). Charles Polinquin runs a very high quality site that has a few articles on it http://main.poliquingroup.com/ArticlesMultimedia/Articles.aspx

I'm well aware of the performance enhancing aspects of caffeine, and when I use it tend to use it for that purpose.  It's still a frivolous expense though.  :P

Lol fair enough :). Health is important. If coffee even helps my diabetic family member even 1% it’s already worth it’s weight in gold.

More importantly... coffee = happiness;-P

[FINate]

You get a 6 gallon batch from a $25 kit? What, no way. That can't have much hops in it.. Make an ipa and it's quickly $50+, for 4-5 gallons. Not to mention spending half a Sunday, and more, to make the beer. Often great, but also not the same as many craft beers. In my experience home brewing is more a hobby, the result is rarely if ever cheaper than equivalent craft beer.

Don't make a light ale and compare price to a barrel aged stout..

Add at least $5 bucks for brewer's yeast (most folks don't cultivate their own) and some change for propane to boiling 7 gallons of water for an hour and the price goes up a bit more.

I was an avid brewer for 15+ years. Started with extract and worked up to formulating my own all grain recipes. It's a great hobby with lots of variables to geek out on: different types of grain and roast levels, crush size, water chemistry, mash schedule, hop schedule, yeast selection, fermentation temperature, etc. It's crazy fun how much you can influence the final outcome by varying these (I never understood the homebrewers that throw all kinds of shit in their wort like coffee and chocolate and such when there are so many other things they could tweak first). I produced a lot of very tasty beer and that was part of the problem - I realized that I enjoyed it a bit too much so gave it up. I still enjoy craft beer but now it's a once in awhile thing.

Commercial brewers are more efficient than homebrewers and they buy ingredients at wholesale so they have lower variable costs. However homebrewers can beat retail prices because they don't pay taxes (the raw ingredients are technically food), and they don't have the fixed cost overhead of a brewery or distribution channels. My home operation was typically about %25 less than retail for similar strength/IBU, but as already mentioned I drank a lot more of it so didn't really save money in the end.

[Retire-Canada]

So the question is: Why is craft beer not as bastardized demonized around here as coffee?

Brewing coffee at home is easy and cheap so buying it at a coffee shop is not a great deal financially. In the same way buying beer at a bar is a poor deal vs. filling a growler at a brewery. If you spend lots of money at Starbucks or at a bar people will give you facepunches here just the same. So I don't see any difference in treatment between the two.

[Monkey Uncle]

You get a 6 gallon batch from a $25 kit? What, no way. That can't have much hops in it.. Make an ipa and it's quickly $50+, for 4-5 gallons. Not to mention spending half a Sunday, and more, to make the beer. Often great, but also not the same as many craft beers. In my experience home brewing is more a hobby, the result is rarely if ever cheaper than equivalent craft beer.

Don't make a light ale and compare price to a barrel aged stout..

Add at least $5 bucks for brewer's yeast (most folks don't cultivate their own) and some change for propane to boiling 7 gallons of water for an hour and the price goes up a bit more.

I was an avid brewer for 15+ years. Started with extract and worked up to formulating my own all grain recipes. It's a great hobby with lots of variables to geek out on: different types of grain and roast levels, crush size, water chemistry, mash schedule, hop schedule, yeast selection, fermentation temperature, etc. It's crazy fun how much you can influence the final outcome by varying these (I never understood the homebrewers that throw all kinds of shit in their wort like coffee and chocolate and such when there are so many other things they could tweak first). I produced a lot of very tasty beer and that was part of the problem - I realized that I enjoyed it a bit too much so gave it up. I still enjoy craft beer but now it's a once in awhile thing.

Commercial brewers are more efficient than homebrewers and they buy ingredients at wholesale so they have lower variable costs. However homebrewers can beat retail prices because they don't pay taxes (the raw ingredients are technically food), and they don't have the fixed cost overhead of a brewery or distribution channels. My home operation was typically about %25 less than retail for similar strength/IBU, but as already mentioned I drank a lot more of it so didn't really save money in the end.

I take a somewhat different approach to home brewing.  I make basic brews with just extract, hops, and a specialty grain.  The result isn't micro-brew quality, but it's way better than cheap swill for every day consumption.  And it costs about 40% less than cheap swill.  Savings would be a bit less if I factored in the energy costs; 40% is based on ingredients and equipment.

[Retire-Canada]

And it costs about 40% less than cheap swill.  Savings would be a bit less if I factored in the energy costs; 40% is based on ingredients and equipment.

What value do you use for your time to brew the beer and bottle it?