Author Topic: COASTFIRE- anyone?  (Read 18503 times)

Simpli-Fi

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2022, 03:40:03 PM »
It drives me batty how limiting so many people's thinking is. Meanwhile, the world of casual/part time/flexible paid work is absolutely, astronomically massive to the point of being essentially limitless.
hmmm...where do I find out more about this magical place you describe?

mspym

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2022, 03:45:56 PM »
@lilkidjesus 22x(Expenses x 1.3)? You'll be *fine*. And if you're working 3 days, then it should be 60% of salary. Don't think of it as them doing you a favour, more this is an arrangement that works for both parties.

Metalcat

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #52 on: December 06, 2022, 04:19:17 PM »
Why would there be any guilt?

Mostly I feel like my family and friends would either think me lazy or braggy or some other adjective that would make me feel bad. I really really should learn to tune that all out.

That's not guilt, that's shame. It's actually very important to distinguish the two. Guilt is actually quite rare. You need to feel like you have done something fundamentally wrong regardless of whether anyone ever finds out. Guilt is actually quite rare, humans aren't great at feeling guilt, which is why so many people do such shitty things to one another.

Feeling shamed is a whole other kettle of fish. That's just a fear of judgement. The thing is though, you can't avoid being judged, it's literally impossible.

People judge you. Right now, they judge you. Chances are they say some pretty vicious shit talk about you too, even people who really like you probably think and say some heinously judgemental shit about your personal life decisions.

That's normal.

It's also completely unavoidable, so basing your own life decisions on an effort to avoid external, unavoidable judgement is fundamentally futile and kind of insane.

If I based my life choices on what people might judge, I wouldn't be able to do anything.

Here's the rub though: even if they judge you. Even if they privately shit talk you and call you a "lazy loser" behind your back or even to your face, every single person who cares about you will care if you end up happier and healthier.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

People who don't care about you will judge and want you to do poorly. Their opinions don't matter. People who care about you will judge you, but will only judge because they want you to be happy and will be happy to see you thrive at the end of the day. Their opinions only matter insofar as they are useful to you.

So if loved ones judge you not working and you legitimately think their concern for you is valid, then it's worth contemplating. Not living by, but at least considering it. If you conclude that it is the best course of action for your overall well being though, then their opinions stop mattering.

Don't let a fear of judgement ever guide your life decisions. That is the worst losing battle, and a big reason why so many people are miserable and incapable of living authentic lives.

mistymoney

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #53 on: December 06, 2022, 10:27:41 PM »


The former colleague I spoke to was the head of a subsidiary that a former employer owned, so he likely has a lot of hiring flexibility. He basically made it sound like they'd hire me as "full time" from a benefits perspective, but only expect me to be available and putting in time Mon through Wed. Also, 60% should likely be what I asked for, but I felt like they'd be doing me a pretty big solid just be accommodating my request. Perhaps I need to reframe my thinking there in general.

reframe your thinking :)

But if they give you FT time benefits, that might be worth rethinking terms....

iluvzbeach

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #54 on: December 07, 2022, 10:50:54 AM »
Why would there be any guilt?

Mostly I feel like my family and friends would either think me lazy or braggy or some other adjective that would make me feel bad. I really really should learn to tune that all out.

That's not guilt, that's shame. It's actually very important to distinguish the two. Guilt is actually quite rare. You need to feel like you have done something fundamentally wrong regardless of whether anyone ever finds out. Guilt is actually quite rare, humans aren't great at feeling guilt, which is why so many people do such shitty things to one another.

Feeling shamed is a whole other kettle of fish. That's just a fear of judgement. The thing is though, you can't avoid being judged, it's literally impossible.

People judge you. Right now, they judge you. Chances are they say some pretty vicious shit talk about you too, even people who really like you probably think and say some heinously judgemental shit about your personal life decisions.

That's normal.

It's also completely unavoidable, so basing your own life decisions on an effort to avoid external, unavoidable judgement is fundamentally futile and kind of insane.

If I based my life choices on what people might judge, I wouldn't be able to do anything.

Here's the rub though: even if they judge you. Even if they privately shit talk you and call you a "lazy loser" behind your back or even to your face, every single person who cares about you will care if you end up happier and healthier.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

People who don't care about you will judge and want you to do poorly. Their opinions don't matter. People who care about you will judge you, but will only judge because they want you to be happy and will be happy to see you thrive at the end of the day. Their opinions only matter insofar as they are useful to you.

So if loved ones judge you not working and you legitimately think their concern for you is valid, then it's worth contemplating. Not living by, but at least considering it. If you conclude that it is the best course of action for your overall well being though, then their opinions stop mattering.

Don't let a fear of judgement ever guide your life decisions. That is the worst losing battle, and a big reason why so many people are miserable and incapable of living authentic lives.

@Malcat - another comment that belongs on the "Malcat Hall of Excellent Responses"

2Birds1Stone

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #55 on: December 07, 2022, 01:32:30 PM »
Yea, we're somewhere between 20-25x estimated FIRE budget and plan to pad the rest of the way with some sporadic PT, seasonal, intermittent work or revenue generating ventures.

I believe that it's a more resilient approach than going for 25-30x expenses and planning/hoping on being able to 100% rely on future needs from current capital. Scalable coast FIRE income can increase flexibility dramatically, allowing a shift in lifestyle much sooner than an ever moving goalpost to go from 100 to 0.

This becomes increasingly beneficial for the more MMM or lean FIRE peeps as you can pick up just about any job and increase your spend by 10-30% with minimal effort or time. Others like Malcat are retraining to do this at a much higher pay scale. It's a solid plan for anyone who is afraid of not having "enough"......which just becomes impossible to define ;)

Purple_Crayon

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #56 on: December 07, 2022, 02:30:16 PM »
Why would there be any guilt?

Mostly I feel like my family and friends would either think me lazy or braggy or some other adjective that would make me feel bad. I really really should learn to tune that all out.

That's not guilt, that's shame. It's actually very important to distinguish the two. Guilt is actually quite rare. You need to feel like you have done something fundamentally wrong regardless of whether anyone ever finds out. Guilt is actually quite rare, humans aren't great at feeling guilt, which is why so many people do such shitty things to one another.

Feeling shamed is a whole other kettle of fish. That's just a fear of judgement. The thing is though, you can't avoid being judged, it's literally impossible.

People judge you. Right now, they judge you. Chances are they say some pretty vicious shit talk about you too, even people who really like you probably think and say some heinously judgemental shit about your personal life decisions.

That's normal.

It's also completely unavoidable, so basing your own life decisions on an effort to avoid external, unavoidable judgement is fundamentally futile and kind of insane.

If I based my life choices on what people might judge, I wouldn't be able to do anything.

Here's the rub though: even if they judge you. Even if they privately shit talk you and call you a "lazy loser" behind your back or even to your face, every single person who cares about you will care if you end up happier and healthier.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

People who don't care about you will judge and want you to do poorly. Their opinions don't matter. People who care about you will judge you, but will only judge because they want you to be happy and will be happy to see you thrive at the end of the day. Their opinions only matter insofar as they are useful to you.

So if loved ones judge you not working and you legitimately think their concern for you is valid, then it's worth contemplating. Not living by, but at least considering it. If you conclude that it is the best course of action for your overall well being though, then their opinions stop mattering.

Don't let a fear of judgement ever guide your life decisions. That is the worst losing battle, and a big reason why so many people are miserable and incapable of living authentic lives.

@Malcat - another comment that belongs on the "Malcat Hall of Excellent Responses"

Agreed. Malcat, this is why we love you. Others can carry the face-punching load. We rely on you for the brain-punching.

Blackeagle

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #57 on: December 07, 2022, 07:09:40 PM »
People judge you. Right now, they judge you.
Can confirm.  I’m judging @lilkidjesus right now. ;-)

JupiterGreen

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #58 on: December 08, 2022, 06:54:36 AM »
I'm just going to throw this out there:  I'm self-employed and my work motivation for the last 15 years was 110%.  I worked nights, weekends, and vacations.  Throttle to the firewall.  My plan was at retirement I would work occasionally, basically CoastFIRE.   Keep myself a little busy, and the extra income really boosts the SWR.

Welp, now I am retired, the desire to work went to 0.0.   I am kind of shocked how I went from 110% to zero in almost no time.

This is interesting, my partner is a bonafide workaholic. It shall be interesting to see if he follows the same path as you. I’m not even convinced he’ll ever really retire.

Edit: thank you @Malcat that was kind!

Whether he retires or not will depend on what he gets out of work and what that means to him over time.

Being a "workaholic" has the distinct connotation though that the person is pathological and dedicates too much of their available resources to work projects to the detriment of their overall well being and the well being of their family.

If that's the case, then he's very likely to crash and burnout eventually.

It all comes down to *why* he works the way he does. What benefit goes he get from it. What does he think he would lose by not working this way?

I'm not actually asking these questions, just shooting the shit about what motivates people.

I know you aren't asking the the questions, but since people throw around the term workaholic I'm okay with saying in his case it is pathological. It has been at the expense of his health and family (and it is not for the money because he doesn't make that much, it is for the abuse of the work). But he is aware and has worked incredibly hard for the past eight or so years on that side of his "ism" (he had addict parent) that I am super proud of him. I'd put him at a "normal" level of overachiever now, still saying yes a lot but, more or less, manageable.  So we shall see.

Edit: thank you @spartana
« Last Edit: December 08, 2022, 07:00:21 AM by JupiterGreen »

Metalcat

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #59 on: December 08, 2022, 07:50:55 AM »
I know you aren't asking the the questions, but since people throw around the term workaholic I'm okay with saying in his case it is pathological. It has been at the expense of his health and family (and it is not for the money because he doesn't make that much, it is for the abuse of the work). But he is aware and has worked incredibly hard for the past eight or so years on that side of his "ism" (he had addict parent) that I am super proud of him. I'd put him at a "normal" level of overachiever now, still saying yes a lot but, more or less, manageable.  So we shall see.

Edit: thank you @spartana

I personally don't think there is a "normal" level of overachiever.

There's only a net benefit to your overall well being or a net detriment. For some people, throwing themselves wholly into their work is unquestionably the most beneficial thing for them to do.

The childless, single antarctic researcher who eats, breathes, and sleeps their scientific mission is likely getting a net benefit from throwing everything they have at their career.

Meanwhile, the megacorp employee who is only working 40-50hrs/week, but is a mega people-pleaser with a toxic manager might be totally falling apart in terms of their health, their mental function, their marriage, and their parenting. And for what? They could just get another job, or if they have enough money could just quit.

It's not the level of performance that's the problem for people, it's the unhealthy priorities and boundaries that create problems. I'm just as driven as a I ever was, but thanks to a lot of therapy, my motivating drives and boundaries are much healthier.

I'm even more aggressively ambitious than I was before, but I've redirected my definition of success to reflect my overall health and well being. So it's now easy for me to turn down a work request if I know that it will compronise my ability to take optimal care of myself and my family.

Ambition is a great thing. You will encounter very, very few people as ferociously ambitious as I am. But when people direct their ambition all towards external, professional reward, that's where it becomes dangerous, damaging, and massively inefficient if the goal is to have good outcomes.

Lol, I'll never forget years ago taking my DH for a walk, we were in our early financial and career planning stages. I had been crunching numbers and plotting trajectories for months trying to figure out the most efficient use of resources.

No matter what I hammered out, I kept slamming into the same factor as the largest potential contributor to plan success, and that was if we managed to avoid divorce.

My, at the time, ultra pragmatic, robotic, ice queen self had a "bleep, bloop, bleep" moment where it hit me that it was inefficient to push my career at the expense of my marriage. There was no version of success that wasn't seriously damaged by a divorce.

That was my first moment of major insight that this whole personal life that happened sometimes between work hours was actually just as important.

Years later and work is now something that is a tool to serve my success, it isn't the success itself. I've learned to abandon any and all work that can compromise our overall long term success.

I've identified physical health as a key metric for all possible outcomes, which means that sleep, daily PT, and nutritious food have to come before work obligations. It was a matter of shifting my frame of reference for "success," not reducing my ambition and drive.

Success to me no longer looks like praise from my employer and making more money. It looks like exquisitely straight posture in my 80s, decades of intelligent and funny conversations with my spouse, and work that adds to my overall sense of life richness.

Workaholism isn't a problem of excessive drive, it's a lack of integration of the work self within the whole self.

To everyone I meet, my ambition and aggressive drive are downright palpable. As I said, if anything, I've become even more ambitious since I retired because I no longer have a day job throttling my potential and holding me back. DH often says that my career was just in my way.

Your DH doesn't need any reduction in his level of ambition and drive to over achieve, he just needs a healthier and more integrated sense of self and priorities and then to let it rip, full force in the direction of living his best life.

Simpli-Fi

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #60 on: December 08, 2022, 08:23:18 AM »
"bleep, bloop, bleep" moment
this post is gold…I just needed to trim it down.  I was recently mountain biking on a new to me trail and a 76 year old man came up behind me and said, “here, follow me…I’ll show you have to make this drop”.  Not that it was difficult or I wouldn’t have survived…it was my “bleep bloop bleep” moment.  We didn’t arrive at this same spot on earth because he slaved away and gave his health to a career…that was success to me, being healthy enough to do things like riding a mountain bike with two wheels off the ground after 75 years of age.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #61 on: December 08, 2022, 11:10:43 AM »
I consider myself CoastFIREing but I’m still in my high stress, pension covering job.  I’m coasting along in it for 32 more months until I’m pension eligible.  Since I’m not looking to move up, I’m just coasting along end though sometimes it sucks big time.  I guess I’m quite quitting to Coast Fire.

Just_Me

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #62 on: December 08, 2022, 05:57:45 PM »
I consider myself CoastFIREing but I’m still in my high stress, pension covering job.  I’m coasting along in it for 32 more months until I’m pension eligible.  Since I’m not looking to move up, I’m just coasting along end though sometimes it sucks big time.  I guess I’m quite quitting to Coast Fire.

Do you really want to live lackluster and sometimes sucks for another three years?

Fomerly known as something

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #63 on: December 08, 2022, 09:15:15 PM »
I consider myself CoastFIREing but I’m still in my high stress, pension covering job.  I’m coasting along in it for 32 more months until I’m pension eligible.  Since I’m not looking to move up, I’m just coasting along end though sometimes it sucks big time.  I guess I’m quite quitting to Coast Fire.

Do you really want to live lackluster and sometimes sucks for another three years?

For an immediate pension with inflation adjustments and healthcare fore life.  Yes, I’m good with it.  It’s high stress but that stress is both a pain in the ass and challenging fun. 3 years will fly by.

Goanywhere

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #64 on: December 09, 2022, 01:53:20 AM »
My wife and I can’t wait to coastFi. At the moment I work 50-70 hours a week and my wife 25 hours (as well as being the primary carer for our two young children).

We are now 38 and 35 years old and want to be coasting within two years.  CoastFI to us means slowing down and deprioritising work, and instead focusing on our children and spending time outdoors.  Ideally my wife and I will both work 2-3 days per week in low stress jobs that can be done remotely. We’d also like the flexibility to take larger periods off work completely to travel abroad. 

How that will play out I’m not sure, but that is the goal. 

MMMarbleheader

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #65 on: December 09, 2022, 03:48:44 AM »
I am staying put in my job until my current project is over (Mid 2025) based on December 2021 number I would be FIRE by then but it now looks like No, but there is still time to recover.

But I am done then no matter what. I have been thinking about trying to contact a few consulting firms in my field (Civil Engineering) and seeing if they would let me work 3 days a week. Based on glass door numbers, a salary slightly higher than entry level 24 hours a week would pay for my living expenses (no mortgage). So I think I will do that until I hit 3% FIRE then quit for real. Or I may like it and keep going until the kids are out of school. Looking back on my career so far, being entry level/co-op was my favorite by far.

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #66 on: December 09, 2022, 09:03:12 AM »
I'd say I am definitely in the coastFIRE mode. Fought the good fight for a number of years, 'enjoying' the hard work and fighting against the politics. Then was fortunate to move into an individual contributor role during some restructuring that happened about 18 months ago. And most importantly, landed a remote role. It has been a great breath of fresh air. Little direct involvement in management meetings where I was bloodied from battle. Removed from the walk-by nonsense. And the list goes on and on. This has provided me with some time to research, calculate, and conclude. Had I won some of the earlier battles (or more likely just grabbed on the coat tails of the dipshits in management positions), perhaps I would have achieved a couple more rungs on the ladder. However, I have realized that 1) not happening, likely due to a combo of politics and competence, and 2) doesn't need to happen due to a strong portfolio. With what we have churning in tax advantaged and taxable, coupled with a non-COLA pension, coupled with SS, we really do not even need to contribute anything more and would be super set...well we likely could go now, but going to give it a couple more years. I get some interesting problems to work on, I have pretty good tools to work with, and I exist relatively peacefully. Additionally, my management seems to know to not even ask if I want to take on something 'extra'. My spouse has some runway left and has some drive left. If nothing happens there in the next year I suspect she will also be ready to coast for a little while we get serious about where we want to retire to.

afuera

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #67 on: December 09, 2022, 09:56:13 AM »
I kind of consider us coastFIRE at this point.  We went from DINKs that were shoveling money into investments to OITKs.
My husband quit his 6 figure salary job in 2021 to be a house spouse and SAHD for our two little kids.  We have no plans for him to ever rejoin the workforce and we are still saving 25-30% of my salary working a full time but fairly low stress job.  Our plan is just to keep chugging along and let our investments do most of the heavy lifting for the next few years while we try to survive with two strong-willed toddlers.

Tasse

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #68 on: December 09, 2022, 12:05:23 PM »
CoastFIRE is my tentative plan A!

I have just finished graduate school (which largely sucked) and landed my dream job (too early to say how I'll feel in the long term). While my graduate program was paid, this is my first Proper Job, and my plan is to be all-in for three years and find out how I feel about a 40-hour, office job life. I'm probably interested in downshifting at that point, but we'll see what I want after I have that experience. Three years is also when my employer investment contributions will vest and my partner and I project to reach roughly 25x expenses, but that timeline felt like the right length even before I knew that.

My partner has already downshifted to 4-day weeks. He has been the major earner between us for several years (since I had grad school income), and he recently took a lengthy unpaid leave (though partially for medical caregiver reasons). I wouldn't be surprised if he wants to reach 25x and quit entirely, or downshift even further before then.

Either way, we want to have kids in a few years, and my goal is that neither of us is working full time by then.

Once you coast…you’ll never be happy if you find yourself back to a high stress job.

You say this as though "finding yourself in a high stress job" is just something that can happen to you, like an illness, rather than something you have control over.

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #69 on: December 09, 2022, 12:09:12 PM »
I consider myself CoastFIREing but I’m still in my high stress, pension covering job.  I’m coasting along in it for 32 more months until I’m pension eligible.  Since I’m not looking to move up, I’m just coasting along end though sometimes it sucks big time.  I guess I’m quite quitting to Coast Fire.

Do you really want to live lackluster and sometimes sucks for another three years?

This is me exactly.  It is becoming harder and harder month to month.  30 more months of toxicity.  I am however not quiet quitting.  I put in 100% most days. 

Goanywhere

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #70 on: December 09, 2022, 12:54:53 PM »
I’m wondering, are there any decent blogs that are focussed specifically on coastFI?

Fomerly known as something

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #71 on: December 09, 2022, 05:56:50 PM »
I consider myself CoastFIREing but I’m still in my high stress, pension covering job.  I’m coasting along in it for 32 more months until I’m pension eligible.  Since I’m not looking to move up, I’m just coasting along end though sometimes it sucks big time.  I guess I’m quite quitting to Coast Fire.

Do you really want to live lackluster and sometimes sucks for another three years?

This is me exactly.  It is becoming harder and harder month to month.  30 more months of toxicity.  I am however not quiet quitting.  I put in 100% most days.

I guess I have my own definition of quite quitting.  I work hard at work.  My quite quitting is that I don’t go around looking for even more work in order to “move up”. I’m good where I’m at.  ETA:  I take all the leave I earn and don’t consider myself so vital that I can’t take a vacation, if something must be done outside of normal business hours I do it, if it can wait until normal business hours, it waits until normal business hours.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2022, 05:58:52 PM by Fomerly known as something »

Metalcat

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #72 on: December 10, 2022, 05:17:04 AM »
I’m wondering, are there any decent blogs that are focussed specifically on coastFI?

MMM's blog *is* arguably a CoadtFI blog. Looking at Pete's life is where I got the idea. He saved a substantial sum, retired from full time work, and then continued working enough to cover his expenses without touching his savings.

I did back of the napkin math and found that ignoring his blog income and just assuming his rental and construction income was sufficient to cover his expenses, his 'stache would be huge by the time he was 65.

That's when it hit me that if I could find really enjoyable part time work and an enjoyable frugal lifestyle, then time could do the heavy lifting for me in terms of investments.

That's why I decided it was most important to invest in finding work that I truly adds to my life.

scantee

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #73 on: December 10, 2022, 08:28:20 AM »
I’m wondering, are there any decent blogs that are focussed specifically on coastFI?

MMM's blog *is* arguably a CoadtFI blog. Looking at Pete's life is where I got the idea. He saved a substantial sum, retired from full time work, and then continued working enough to cover his expenses without touching his savings.

I did back of the napkin math and found that ignoring his blog income and just assuming his rental and construction income was sufficient to cover his expenses, his 'stache would be huge by the time he was 65.

That's when it hit me that if I could find really enjoyable part time work and an enjoyable frugal lifestyle, then time could do the heavy lifting for me in terms of investments.

That's why I decided it was most important to invest in finding work that I truly adds to my life.

I would add that most of the popular FIRE blogs are Coasting in some way or another, some a little some a lot. The younger a person is when they retire, the more likely it is that they will earn income in some way, at some point. Acknowledging that is sometimes treated like a dirty secret unloosed. But for those that accept it rather than fight it it unlocks a set of options that are closed off by the binary of working or retired.

I’m coasting now and my plan was to downshift to consulting in ‘24. This year has been a wash or worse investment-wise so maybe that will happen or maybe it won’t but I’m not worried about it. As time goes by I get more confident in the viability of my plan and can weather a bum year or two without feeling like I need to deviate much.

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #74 on: December 10, 2022, 11:46:17 AM »
I would add that most of the popular FIRE blogs are Coasting in some way or another, some a little some a lot. The younger a person is when they retire, the more likely it is that they will earn income in some way, at some point. Acknowledging that is sometimes treated like a dirty secret unloosed. But for those that accept it rather than fight it it unlocks a set of options that are closed off by the binary of working or retired.

The hard part is finding part time, reasonably well compensated work. 

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #75 on: December 10, 2022, 12:10:22 PM »
I would add that most of the popular FIRE blogs are Coasting in some way or another, some a little some a lot. The younger a person is when they retire, the more likely it is that they will earn income in some way, at some point. Acknowledging that is sometimes treated like a dirty secret unloosed. But for those that accept it rather than fight it it unlocks a set of options that are closed off by the binary of working or retired.

The hard part is finding part time, reasonably well compensated work.

Megacorp kind of expected employees to be willing to do half the work for 1/4 of the pay. They seem to be backtracking on that, but they were surprised at how poorly the offer was received...

Just_Me

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #76 on: December 10, 2022, 01:07:02 PM »
I consider myself CoastFIREing but I’m still in my high stress, pension covering job.  I’m coasting along in it for 32 more months until I’m pension eligible.  Since I’m not looking to move up, I’m just coasting along end though sometimes it sucks big time.  I guess I’m quite quitting to Coast Fire.

Do you really want to live lackluster and sometimes sucks for another three years?

This is me exactly.  It is becoming harder and harder month to month.  30 more months of toxicity.  I am however not quiet quitting.  I put in 100% most days.

I mean for some like @Silrossi46 have found a way to tolerate it. But for those who don't find enough value in the reward to put up with this for another 2.5-3 years, you should really evaluate why you're doing it. Once I realized that the whole "I have only 5-6 years projected left on my FI timeline before I can start doing what I want with my time" was fundamentally flawed, it took me less than 4 weeks to quit the job.

If I wanted to be doing something that brought me satisfaction AND and the potential to pay me, why would I wait to start? Just so I could work for a few more years to not need to earn money to do it? Why, if I enjoyed doing it, would I need to RE?

If I need health insurance that's expensive because it's not employer sponsored and I needed to work, why does that matter if I'm willing to work because I'm enjoying it?

Once I wrapped my head around that, leaving was easy. I had the benefit of a year away and going back to an unhealthy environment to slap me in the face of how sucky it was. Not everybody is afforded that perspective. Just listen to what your mind and body is telling you.

Being on these forums is proof enough that you're financially savvy. Are you well balanced in your savviness? Mentally? Emotionally? Physically?

Silrossi46

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #77 on: December 10, 2022, 02:05:38 PM »
A big part of my tolerating this is the fact that we are now going to be working remotely for 2 days a week starting Jan 2023. 2 days less of face time with assholes and no commuting or dressing ridiculously to impress a collection of saps will help my cause immensely.

BicycleB

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #78 on: December 10, 2022, 02:33:19 PM »
The only issue is, now I kinda want to do it right now! I'm currently at about 22x spending, but want to get to at least 25x before making any changes (cuz I'm a scaredy cat).

A version of CoastFIRE shaped like what I wrote above is definitely part of my optimal plan -- cover our expenses, work from different locales to see what areas may merit longer re-visits, pad the stash, AND get a 4-day weekend every week to spend time on all the things I fail to cram into the actual time I get now. Seems like the perfect way to feel comfortable (and guilt free) with giving myself the gift of time.

Don't wait, do it now! Calculate how long it will push back your FIRE date. If you're at 22x, I'm going to guess it's going to be only a few months. Plus, I'm going to guess that because you call yourself a "scaredy cat" you will be very susceptible to OMY syndrome anyway. Start living your relaxed life now!

I work 3 days a week (20 hours total) currently. It is so much better than full time.

Great post, @hollaynia!

@lilkidjesus, I hope you let the interested parties know you'd like to start the part time thing as soon as it's convenient for them. And also that you're excited to have gotten more than one such offer, so if they want to pay 60% instead of 50%, they can feel free to do so.  ;)

Holocene

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #79 on: December 10, 2022, 05:24:32 PM »
I would add that most of the popular FIRE blogs are Coasting in some way or another, some a little some a lot. The younger a person is when they retire, the more likely it is that they will earn income in some way, at some point. Acknowledging that is sometimes treated like a dirty secret unloosed. But for those that accept it rather than fight it it unlocks a set of options that are closed off by the binary of working or retired.

The hard part is finding part time, reasonably well compensated work.
It seems like it's getting easier these days.  With the pandemic, remote work, and the great resignation, I think employers are willing to be more flexible than they maybe would have been in the past.  Especially to retain good employees.

My megacorp has been shown to be quite accommodating.  Late in 2020, one of my coworkers went fully remote, working maybe 1-2 days a week.  He sold his house and bought an RV and decided to travel the country with his family.  I think it was only supposed to be for a year, but as far as I know, he's still doing it.  I thought this was awesome.

I'm still amazed that they took my offer.  I resigned this spring, but then after talking with my boss, I ended up offering to take a 6 month leave of absence and come back part-time 20 hours a week to a new role that I defined for myself.  There's one other person at my site doing a similar role, but there's definitely enough work for both of us.  There was no job opening for this, but it's literally the only job I could think of in my field that was worth trading my free time for at this point.  So I figured why not throw it out there.  It felt like a lot to ask for, and I was ok with them saying no.  But it worked out and I'm happy with how it's going for now.  I think it's working out well for both parties.

I'm still salaried, just now at 50% of what I used to make.  I think I'm well compensated.  And I still get pro-rated holidays/vacation, 401k matching, and health insurance.  If I drop below 20 hours, I lose the health insurance, so that's an incentive to stay where I'm at.  But I was still surprised that they even offered it down to 20 hours.  I think my dad's company required 32 hours to keep insurance when he went part-time before retirement.

I have no doubt that I only have this job because of the decade+ of hard work I put in for my megacorp and the relationships I formed and reputation I earned over that time.  So I'm not saying it's easy to find a well-paid part-time role, but it is possible.  It's probably easier to negotiate with an existing employer or if you have a skillset that lends well to contract work.

pdxvandal

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #80 on: December 10, 2022, 05:54:11 PM »
Kudos to you, Holocene, and agree with employers having to bend more than ever for employees' work-life balance.

If I was able to drop to 20 hours a week with benefits and still tolerate the work, I'd do it yesterday. Possibly something to explore with my employer at some point, but I'm still typically able to put in about 25-30 hours of actual work a week and get paid for 40, which isn't bad at all.

Overall, I'd consider myself CoastFIRE at this point and just adding to the 'stache for the next 12-24 months until I can't stand FT corporate work any longer.

Metalcat

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #81 on: December 11, 2022, 07:57:20 AM »
I would add that most of the popular FIRE blogs are Coasting in some way or another, some a little some a lot. The younger a person is when they retire, the more likely it is that they will earn income in some way, at some point. Acknowledging that is sometimes treated like a dirty secret unloosed. But for those that accept it rather than fight it it unlocks a set of options that are closed off by the binary of working or retired.

The hard part is finding part time, reasonably well compensated work.

I personally don't find this difficult at all. I'm retraining to be able to do it, but that's not terribly difficult, and that's to have a $100+/hr job. For $35-75/hr, it's even easier.

hollaynia

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #82 on: December 11, 2022, 10:54:37 AM »
@Holocene my experience was very similar. I only wish I had asked for the 6 month leave too, because I was/am so burnt out that even half time I may be quitting. Taking an extended leave probably would have helped reset things.

That being said, my point is that employees often have so much more power than we think. I honestly am not that great of a worker - I'm very strong technically but I've been so burnt out I haven't been very productive. I've only been in my job for a year. So when they offered for me to stay in any capacity that worked for me rather than quitting, I was very surprised. I think many of us, especially on the FIRE path, might have similar experiences.

Just_Me

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #83 on: December 11, 2022, 01:36:21 PM »
@Holocene my experience was very similar. I only wish I had asked for the 6 month leave too, because I was/am so burnt out that even half time I may be quitting. Taking an extended leave probably would have helped reset things.

That being said, my point is that employees often have so much more power than we think. I honestly am not that great of a worker - I'm very strong technically but I've been so burnt out I haven't been very productive. I've only been in my job for a year. So when they offered for me to stay in any capacity that worked for me rather than quitting, I was very surprised. I think many of us, especially on the FIRE path, might have similar experiences.

So, in other words, you completely ignored all the warning signs your body was giving you to step away and went back to it. Then, instead of taking a break to reflect on your relationship you decided not to because you were scared to find out you had an unhealthy relationship.Then, when you decided to stop you let your enabler convince you to stay for just a little bit to continue the damage instead of walking away?

You can substitute work for any unhealthy relationship in that summary: drugs, sex, porn, self abnegation, alcohol, whatever. Does that change your perspective at all?

I have a book recommendation for you. It's titled "When the body says no" by Gabor Maté. It's about how the body is the one to give out if you do not know how to say no first.

ixtap

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #84 on: December 11, 2022, 01:49:08 PM »
I’m wondering, are there any decent blogs that are focussed specifically on coastFI?

MMM's blog *is* arguably a CoadtFI blog. Looking at Pete's life is where I got the idea. He saved a substantial sum, retired from full time work, and then continued working enough to cover his expenses without touching his savings.

I did back of the napkin math and found that ignoring his blog income and just assuming his rental and construction income was sufficient to cover his expenses, his 'stache would be huge by the time he was 65.

That's when it hit me that if I could find really enjoyable part time work and an enjoyable frugal lifestyle, then time could do the heavy lifting for me in terms of investments.

That's why I decided it was most important to invest in finding work that I truly adds to my life.
I often wonder what MMM's life would look like now if he never did any paid work or had blog income. If he was truely old-school retired at 30 with his just his stash and paid off house and any other non-job income and assets he had. Add in having gone thru a divorce too.

I wonder if he could have stayed retired or if he would have HAD to go back to work? I'm one of the few around here who have choosen not to work/earn money after FIREing pretty young but it would be fascinating to hear from others - especially those like MMM who retired on a smaller stash and a low WR - who have too. It is actually easier to find blogs for high earning, high spending, still employed early retirees then regular or lean FIREd blogs. Maybe they are all living under the overpass in their cardboard boxes and don't have internet access ;-).

Or maybe they just realize that maintaining a blog or YouTube channel is actually a lot of work.

Metalcat

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #85 on: December 11, 2022, 02:49:10 PM »
I’m wondering, are there any decent blogs that are focussed specifically on coastFI?

MMM's blog *is* arguably a CoadtFI blog. Looking at Pete's life is where I got the idea. He saved a substantial sum, retired from full time work, and then continued working enough to cover his expenses without touching his savings.

I did back of the napkin math and found that ignoring his blog income and just assuming his rental and construction income was sufficient to cover his expenses, his 'stache would be huge by the time he was 65.

That's when it hit me that if I could find really enjoyable part time work and an enjoyable frugal lifestyle, then time could do the heavy lifting for me in terms of investments.

That's why I decided it was most important to invest in finding work that I truly adds to my life.
I often wonder what MMM's life would look like now if he never did any paid work or had blog income. If he was truely old-school retired at 30 with his just his stash and paid off house and any other non-job income and assets he had. Add in having gone thru a divorce too.

I wonder if he could have stayed retired or if he would have HAD to go back to work? I'm one of the few around here who have choosen not to work/earn money after FIREing pretty young but it would be fascinating to hear from others - especially those like MMM who retired on a smaller stash and a low WR - who have too. It is actually easier to find blogs for high earning, high spending, still employed early retirees then regular or lean FIREd blogs. Maybe they are all living under the overpass in their cardboard boxes and don't have internet access ;-).

Well, he did specifically set up his life to have multiple cashflow sources. Blog aside, he had rental and construction income, and his wife had her business.

If they didn't, they may have no retired with so little money. It's one thing to retire on a stache that supports one person, it's another to retire as a couple and bank on a financial plan that requires your marriage to last forever.

To me, that has always been the most high risk proposition for people to depend on.


Blackeagle

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #86 on: December 11, 2022, 05:05:34 PM »
I would add that most of the popular FIRE blogs are Coasting in some way or another, some a little some a lot. The younger a person is when they retire, the more likely it is that they will earn income in some way, at some point. Acknowledging that is sometimes treated like a dirty secret unloosed. But for those that accept it rather than fight it it unlocks a set of options that are closed off by the binary of working or retired.

The hard part is finding part time, reasonably well compensated work.

COASTFIRE doesn’t necessarily have to be part time.  Depending on the individual, it could also be less lucrative but more personal rewarding full time work, or shifting from a high pay, high stress job to a lower paid lower stress job.

BicycleB

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #87 on: December 11, 2022, 06:52:04 PM »
I’m wondering, are there any decent blogs that are focussed specifically on coastFI?

MMM's blog *is* arguably a CoadtFI blog. Looking at Pete's life is where I got the idea. He saved a substantial sum, retired from full time work, and then continued working enough to cover his expenses without touching his savings.

I did back of the napkin math and found that ignoring his blog income and just assuming his rental and construction income was sufficient to cover his expenses, his 'stache would be huge by the time he was 65.

That's when it hit me that if I could find really enjoyable part time work and an enjoyable frugal lifestyle, then time could do the heavy lifting for me in terms of investments.

That's why I decided it was most important to invest in finding work that I truly adds to my life.
I often wonder what MMM's life would look like now if he never did any paid work or had blog income. If he was truely old-school retired at 30 with his just his stash and paid off house and any other non-job income and assets he had. Add in having gone thru a divorce too.

I wonder if he could have stayed retired or if he would have HAD to go back to work? I'm one of the few around here who have choosen not to work/earn money after FIREing pretty young but it would be fascinating to hear from others - especially those like MMM who retired on a smaller stash and a low WR - who have too. It is actually easier to find blogs for high earning, high spending, still employed early retirees then regular or lean FIREd blogs. Maybe they are all living under the overpass in their cardboard boxes and don't have internet access ;-).

Six posts later...

I'm your guy! :)  Partly because I keep meaning to work a little but never to get around to it, but still no w2 and no work for hire and no business since 2014. Last full time job 2013 so less than one year to my 10 year FIREversary, lol. CoastFIRE lasted less than a year for me, work-free since then. Stash rose gradually during retirement to just over 500k by start 2022, lower now (470k or so last I checked). WR not low, but about 4% at start of year, 21k ish. Was targeted at 18k originally, change basically tracks inflation.

In fairness, 65k or so of that "stash" is sale value of pension accounts that would cost more like 165k to buy, based on market price of a comparable annuity. If we consider that implies a lower WR, it also implies larger stash for one person, maybe 570k today. Still it's small compared to lots of forum members now.

Anyway, I float along pretty happily, mostly lazing about. Not posting from a bridge, but instead a cozy Midwestern apartment with stable internet within a 1 minute walk of 3 scenic walkable winding country roads in forested hills; neighbors all friendly, most forming a micro-community that shares Thanksgiving and in good weather has periodic cookouts. Currently living near hometown, walking through woods with spry but aging mom every week (I'm 50something now), studying Spanish at the junior college as I gear up to live in Medellín Colombia for a year a time, alternating with a year at a time near hometown. The good times continue.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2022, 07:11:58 PM by BicycleB »

Holocene

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #88 on: December 11, 2022, 07:41:26 PM »
Kudos to you, Holocene, and agree with employers having to bend more than ever for employees' work-life balance.

If I was able to drop to 20 hours a week with benefits and still tolerate the work, I'd do it yesterday. Possibly something to explore with my employer at some point, but I'm still typically able to put in about 25-30 hours of actual work a week and get paid for 40, which isn't bad at all.

Overall, I'd consider myself CoastFIRE at this point and just adding to the 'stache for the next 12-24 months until I can't stand FT corporate work any longer.
Sounds like you have a pretty good deal if you get paid full-time and only work 25-30 hours.  I'm always amazed when people can do that.  I never put in much overtime, but I worked a solid 40 hours every week.  I didn't realized how burnt out I was even from this until I took some extended time off.  It really gave me a new perspective.  20 hours feels like a breeze in comparison to 40 hours.  It's amazing having a longer weekend than work week.  And I'm still only doing it because I actually enjoy the work (so far).  That makes a big difference too.

In your case, I doubt it'd be worth it to drop to part-time hours.  You'd probably be doing almost as much work for half the pay.  Happy coasting!

Holocene

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #89 on: December 11, 2022, 07:55:21 PM »
@Holocene my experience was very similar. I only wish I had asked for the 6 month leave too, because I was/am so burnt out that even half time I may be quitting. Taking an extended leave probably would have helped reset things.

That being said, my point is that employees often have so much more power than we think. I honestly am not that great of a worker - I'm very strong technically but I've been so burnt out I haven't been very productive. I've only been in my job for a year. So when they offered for me to stay in any capacity that worked for me rather than quitting, I was very surprised. I think many of us, especially on the FIRE path, might have similar experiences.
It's never too late!  You can let them know that while you appreciate them working with you so far to reduce your hours, you still feel like your health is at risk and you need some extended time off in order to address it.  And that you'd be ready to come back recharged and work hard for them once you take this time for yourself.  If you're contemplating quitting anyway, it doesn't hurt to ask!  If you're literally willing to walk away, you have all the power.  And it really does sound like something you need at this point.  Taking this time for myself was one of the best things I've ever done.  And I didn't even really do anything in the time off.  But maybe that's why it was so good for me.

For me, it was actually my boss that suggested the leave.  Well, I did resign first so it was an alternative to that.  I had considered it before I quit and decided against it because I didn't really want to go back to that job.  But I was honest when he asked where I was going (assuming I was leaving for a new employer) and I said I'd just be taking time off.  So he suggested a leave as an alternative.  I was honest again that I was looking for a change.  I didn't necessarily mean work.  The change I was intending to make was to try not working for a while.  But the whole conversation got me thinking...what kind of job would I want to come back to?  And so I proposed doing that.  And part-time because I never want to work full-time again.  Somehow, it all worked out.

I knew that I mentally still needed some time away.  My mind was set on a summer off.  And it was just as amazing as I thought it'd be.  I'd highly recommend it to anyone who can afford it.  It was also nice to have a clean break between the old and new job and it did give me a mental reset.  For now, I'm pretty happy being back working.  But I think next spring/summer I'll be wishing for time off again.  We'll see how long I can make it before I FIRE for real.

SpareChange

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #90 on: December 12, 2022, 02:51:46 PM »
I’m wondering, are there any decent blogs that are focussed specifically on coastFI?

MMM's blog *is* arguably a CoadtFI blog. Looking at Pete's life is where I got the idea. He saved a substantial sum, retired from full time work, and then continued working enough to cover his expenses without touching his savings.

I did back of the napkin math and found that ignoring his blog income and just assuming his rental and construction income was sufficient to cover his expenses, his 'stache would be huge by the time he was 65.

That's when it hit me that if I could find really enjoyable part time work and an enjoyable frugal lifestyle, then time could do the heavy lifting for me in terms of investments.

That's why I decided it was most important to invest in finding work that I truly adds to my life.
I often wonder what MMM's life would look like now if he never did any paid work or had blog income. If he was truely old-school retired at 30 with his just his stash and paid off house and any other non-job income and assets he had. Add in having gone thru a divorce too.

I wonder if he could have stayed retired or if he would have HAD to go back to work? I'm one of the few around here who have choosen not to work/earn money after FIREing pretty young but it would be fascinating to hear from others - especially those like MMM who retired on a smaller stash and a low WR - who have too. It is actually easier to find blogs for high earning, high spending, still employed early retirees then regular or lean FIREd blogs. Maybe they are all living under the overpass in their cardboard boxes and don't have internet access ;-).

Six posts later...

I'm your guy! :)  Partly because I keep meaning to work a little but never to get around to it, but still no w2 and no work for hire and no business since 2014. Last full time job 2013 so less than one year to my 10 year FIREversary, lol. CoastFIRE lasted less than a year for me, work-free since then. Stash rose gradually during retirement to just over 500k by start 2022, lower now (470k or so last I checked). WR not low, but about 4% at start of year, 21k ish. Was targeted at 18k originally, change basically tracks inflation.

In fairness, 65k or so of that "stash" is sale value of pension accounts that would cost more like 165k to buy, based on market price of a comparable annuity. If we consider that implies a lower WR, it also implies larger stash for one person, maybe 570k today. Still it's small compared to lots of forum members now.

Anyway, I float along pretty happily, mostly lazing about. Not posting from a bridge, but instead a cozy Midwestern apartment with stable internet within a 1 minute walk of 3 scenic walkable winding country roads in forested hills; neighbors all friendly, most forming a micro-community that shares Thanksgiving and in good weather has periodic cookouts. Currently living near hometown, walking through woods with spry but aging mom every week (I'm 50something now), studying Spanish at the junior college as I gear up to live in Medellín Colombia for a year a time, alternating with a year at a time near hometown. The good times continue.
Great Minds FIRE alike!! It's nice to hear stories by others who can successfully and happily make the FIRE transition without needing vast riches and lavious lifestyles to make that happen. Wish there were more out there.

You guys are awesome. IIRC Spartana, you fired with a paid off house and low expenses. What did your portfolio and WR look like at the time?

scantee

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #91 on: December 13, 2022, 09:57:54 AM »
I would add that most of the popular FIRE blogs are Coasting in some way or another, some a little some a lot. The younger a person is when they retire, the more likely it is that they will earn income in some way, at some point. Acknowledging that is sometimes treated like a dirty secret unloosed. But for those that accept it rather than fight it it unlocks a set of options that are closed off by the binary of working or retired.

The hard part is finding part time, reasonably well compensated work.

I’m not too worried about it. I think it likely I could contract part-time and be well-compensated with my current Megacorp. If that doesn’t work out, I would look for positions at the flagship university I worked at 15 years ago. They frequently have 75-80% positions that are higher level, interesting, and decently paid. I’d even work full-time there if it was the right opportunity. If that doesn’t work out, I am a project manager with a PMP and I’ve worked in several different industries. There are almost unlimited PM contract gigs out there so I could pick those up as needed.

So I feel like I have a lot of options. I’ve bounced around a bit in my career and one drawback of that is that I’m not well-poised to climb the ladder so to speak. Which is fine since that isn’t of particular interest to me. The big benefit of bouncing around is that I now have a lot of connections and valuable skills across some disparate industries so now I have a lot of choices for when I want to downshift.

SpareChange

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #92 on: December 13, 2022, 06:26:37 PM »
^^^yeah a paid off house that I had planned to eventually sell and downsize, very low expenses and a smallish stash less then $500k - probably closer to $400 until I sold my house and downsized. Plus $600/month from a VA benefit and a small future Gov pension of about $900/month once I was 50 - more then a decade after quitting my job. So I had some extra perks that helped me retire early that not everyone has.

So I was pretty set and all my basic expenses (with no debts, no kids, and single) were only about $500/month for things like prop taxes, insurance, utilities, car reg and insurance, fuel, and food and pet food. After COBRA I started using the VA free or low cost medical and had $30k in an EF for any home, car or pet repairs/replacements/care. So while I didn't have a huge stash I did have enough FIRE income to meet both my basic expenses as well as lots of lower cost discretionary fun money. I think I pulled about $12k/year from the stash back then and with my VA benefit had just under $20k/year - much of which I didn't need or use.

ETA: I've done the math and even if I didn't have my future pension,  VA benefit or low cost medical when I quit my job, I would have been fine but it would have been lean. However I had options lime getting a roommate (or 2), selling my house in a HCOL area and buying one much less expensive or even getting an occasional low paying job doing something fun.

Thanks for adding the color! It's nice to see how people who fired on less than most have fared. I will most likely be in that group.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #93 on: December 16, 2022, 09:00:57 AM »
^^^yeah a paid off house that I had planned to eventually sell and downsize, very low expenses and a smallish stash less then $500k - probably closer to $400 until I sold my house and downsized. Plus $600/month from a VA benefit and a small future Gov pension of about $900/month once I was 50 - more then a decade after quitting my job. So I had some extra perks that helped me retire early that not everyone has.

So I was pretty set and all my basic expenses (with no debts, no kids, and single) were only about $500/month for things like prop taxes, insurance, utilities, car reg and insurance, fuel, and food and pet food. After COBRA I started using the VA free or low cost medical and had $30k in an EF for any home, car or pet repairs/replacements/care. So while I didn't have a huge stash I did have enough FIRE income to meet both my basic expenses as well as lots of lower cost discretionary fun money. I think I pulled about $12k/year from the stash back then and with my VA benefit had just under $20k/year - much of which I didn't need or use.

ETA: I've done the math and even if I didn't have my future pension,  VA benefit or low cost medical when I quit my job, I would have been fine but it would have been lean. However I had options lime getting a roommate (or 2), selling my house in a HCOL area and buying one much less expensive or even getting an occasional low paying job doing something fun.

Thanks for adding the color! It's nice to see how people who fired on less than most have fared. I will most likely be in that group.
I hope it helps others but I was in a unique situation so know that that's not the case for most here. I'm in a different situation now, years (decades!) into FIRE, and have a higher NW and the ability to spend more (although rarely do) so never did have to do any paid work. And still enjoy the lower cost things in life.

I think in the end it’s about being able to define what it is to have enough no matter what your spend.  Like your career, I’m in the public sector so while I don’t know all the details of my coworkers finances, I know enough to have a good idea of them.  There are many of us who can retire early or on time, but there are others who just won’t retire.  The biggest difference is each person’s definition of enough.  Now personally, I get the must be nice, but you are single argument.  But I know sufficient married with kids coworkers who also retire early on time.  But then, neither those coworkers and I bought a home so large that the summer A/C bill runs into 4 figures.  (Heard this complaint recently along with the way large square footage of the house).

iluvzbeach

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #94 on: December 16, 2022, 09:32:12 AM »
Wow, 4 figures for an electric bill in the summer? That’s insane. Our bill over an entire 12 month period doesn’t even reach 4 figures. The financial waste that some go through is off the charts.

MisterTwoForty

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #95 on: December 16, 2022, 09:47:37 AM »
I have been a large consumer of many FIRE blogs for quite some time now.  As one reply says, many of the bloggers that are now FI, are actually living Coast FIRE.  Very few live entirely off their investments and have no income from any paid employment source (W-2 or self employed).  I've noticed a few trends:
1) Those that are married, many have a working spouse
2)  Live a very low cost lifestyle, which includes a paid for home or they rent and are nomadic
3)  Have some sort of income (Blog, self employment, hobby job, etc) that helps fund most of their living expenses

I still feel you can earn money in retirement and be considered FIRE, but many are Coast FI, which is what drew me to learn more. This milestone is reached sooner than full FIRE.   

I would like to learn more about ROTH conversions and find someone who has used this strategy to fund their retirement.

Metalcat

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #96 on: December 16, 2022, 10:07:40 AM »
I have been a large consumer of many FIRE blogs for quite some time now.  As one reply says, many of the bloggers that are now FI, are actually living Coast FIRE.  Very few live entirely off their investments and have no income from any paid employment source (W-2 or self employed).  I've noticed a few trends:
1) Those that are married, many have a working spouse
2)  Live a very low cost lifestyle, which includes a paid for home or they rent and are nomadic
3)  Have some sort of income (Blog, self employment, hobby job, etc) that helps fund most of their living expenses

I still feel you can earn money in retirement and be considered FIRE, but many are Coast FI, which is what drew me to learn more. This milestone is reached sooner than full FIRE.   

I would like to learn more about ROTH conversions and find someone who has used this strategy to fund their retirement.

To be fair. The difference between CoastFI and FIREd but still generating income are pretty arbitrary.

Whether someone is considered FI is largely arbitrary, because it's all about whether they "feel" they have enough to stop working.

Some might feel perfectly fine with a small 'stache, and as we've seen in many threads, many don't feel comfortable even with massive savings well beyond what they could ever need for their projected spend.

Then there's the matter of that spend. That's not an objective thing, it's the number that someone imagines will be the right balance to be happy/comfortable.

Pete's spend steadily rose in terms of "business expenses." But in the end, many of us might be inclined to spend more just because there's more money available.

I know I have various projected potential lifestyles depending on how much I end up wanting to work. I have a leanFI level where I know I could be reasonably comfortable long term if I had to, but I would rather not if I have an easy option to build more wealth, and I do, so I will.

However, I also have unpredictable health, and the QOL I would want for myself if I lost even more function would be rather expensive, because there's no way I'm letting my life become smaller just because my capacity dwindles. I mean, I already bought a second home for this very reason.

So am I leanFI and SWAMI-ing my way to FatFIRE? Or am I CoastFI-ing my way to FI?

Fucked if I know. For me, my financial goals aren't set in stone, I'm more likely to base my lifestyle and spending on how my finances turn out, not the other way around.

If the way I want to work produces the top range of potential income, then I will inflate my lifestyle. If I get more drawn to pro-bono work, or low paying work, my lifestyle will stay more modest.

Then there's DH's post-retirement work. He could earn anywhere from $0 to 7 figures annually depending on how he wants to play things once he retires from the government, but that's a long way off. He's *just* worked his way into his dream job, but we'll see where that passion is in a decade.

Same with me. I'm retraining right now in a career that could last the rest of my life...but we'll see. I have a habit of getting very bored very quickly, and I'm already eyeing another degree in a different field.

The question will be whether I do something else instead of this work or in addition to this work or in conjunction with it. Who knows? I am utterly terrible at predicting my own future. Truly, absolutely abysmal.

So yeah. Since I have no clue what I want to do, where I'll end up living, or how much I'll end up spending, I don't think I'll ever be able to nail down if/when I will be FI.

JupiterGreen

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #97 on: January 26, 2023, 07:25:02 AM »
I'm reviving this thread because I want to keep track of my fellow COASTFIRE cohort here as well as hear all the ins and outs of your strategies. We currently have one job possibility floating out there (for my partner) that if offered would allow us to dispense with our current careers and most importantly move out of this crappy state later this year (we won't know anything for a couple of months). Otherwise we are still on track for a 2027 escape from this state to part time work. The career move this year would definitely allow us to COAST and is the ideal move for us (but extremely competitive). The part time work in 2027 may require a dip into our accounts, not sure yet so I don't know if that counts as COAST. There is also always the opportunity another full time gig will arise (for one of us) between now and 2027. We work in niche fields. If the job pans out that would allow us to live on 1 income and not touch the stache, this is the ideal COAST plan for us since my partner is unlikely to ever really retire (and the job possibility is his). What's your current COAST plans and strategies?


JGS1980

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #98 on: January 26, 2023, 09:42:17 AM »
Anyone see this calculator yet?

https://fireplace.cash/calculators/coastfire/

I ran my numbers assuming I Coast FIRE'd in 6 months. Very illuminating. Math always seems to clear things up for me...

JGS

StarBright

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Re: COASTFIRE- anyone?
« Reply #99 on: January 26, 2023, 10:01:21 AM »
Thank you so much for sharing the calculator!

It definitely made me feel more secure in my plans.