Author Topic: Case study - financial independence and its benefits  (Read 3161 times)

twinstudy

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Case study - financial independence and its benefits
« on: January 22, 2025, 06:15:58 PM »
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/jan/21/wards-in-nsws-largest-psychiatric-hospital-close-as-mass-resignations-begin

This is a really interesting development that's happening in New South Wales. Basically, consultant psychiatrists working in public hospitals in that state have just organised a mass resignation. About half the state's public psychiatrists have now resigned. They have the freedom to do that because they are on decent incomes and they can take private work (so have some degree of job flexibility). The mass resignation was triggered by the idiotic state government being unwilling to raise public psychiatrist wages by 25% to put them on par with what psychiatrists in other states are paid - despite NSW psychiatrists already having to deal with under-resourcing issues. Instead, the state government is trying to plug in gaps by bringing in locum doctors (who are paid more than permanent positions, so it's a fairly short-sighted and spiteful solution).

I think this case study shows the power of being financially independent - i.e. having enough buffer and enough side gig/plan B income to just disavow your employer and walk away! When done on a large scale like what is happening here, it can effect systemic change for the better. I thought it was a really good example of FIRE principles in practice.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2025, 06:17:52 PM by twinstudy »

EliteZags

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Re: Case study - financial independence and its benefits
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2025, 03:17:28 AM »
good thing this didn't happen with essential workers

Ron Scott

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Re: Case study - financial independence and its benefits
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2025, 05:52:06 AM »
There’s no union? This seems more akin to a labor strike in which the workers want to return to work under different conditions than an FI play per se. The Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Psychiatrists (RANZCP) is a different type of organization than a union as it is involved in collage education and serves as a government liaison for them…but they seem to be an organizer of sorts on these resignations.

Certainly a huge plus obviously to have the financial ability to just resign. Maybe more FU-money in this case than FI but still.

Metalcat

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Re: Case study - financial independence and its benefits
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2025, 06:14:24 AM »
good thing this didn't happen with essential workers

I can't tell if this is a joke or if you think hospital psychiatrists aren't an essential service?

classicrando

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Re: Case study - financial independence and its benefits
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2025, 06:40:37 AM »
good thing this didn't happen with essential workers

I can't tell if this is a joke or if you think hospital psychiatrists aren't an essential service?

I know, right?  Where's the /s tag?  lol

EliteZags

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Re: Case study - financial independence and its benefits
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2025, 02:26:32 PM »
the center closed oh well, prob wouldn't have happened if it was a real hospital that treated actual diseases

Metalcat

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Re: Case study - financial independence and its benefits
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2025, 03:20:08 PM »
the center closed oh well, prob wouldn't have happened if it was a real hospital that treated actual diseases

Ah, okay, so not a joke then...good to know.

Tyson

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Re: Case study - financial independence and its benefits
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2025, 04:03:53 PM »
the center closed oh well, prob wouldn't have happened if it was a real hospital that treated actual diseases

Maybe a short stay in one of these facilities would do some good for you. 

twinstudy

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Re: Case study - financial independence and its benefits
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2025, 06:21:01 PM »
There’s no union? This seems more akin to a labor strike in which the workers want to return to work under different conditions than an FI play per se. The Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Psychiatrists (RANZCP) is a different type of organization than a union as it is involved in collage education and serves as a government liaison for them…but they seem to be an organizer of sorts on these resignations.

Certainly a huge plus obviously to have the financial ability to just resign. Maybe more FU-money in this case than FI but still.

The union is the ASMOF which represents doctors. But not all psychiatrists are members of the ASMOF, and they are able to act individually as they please, but the spearhead of the negotiations/coordination is the ASMOF.

flyingaway

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Re: Case study - financial independence and its benefits
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2025, 12:25:22 AM »
If they are financially independent and do not have to work (being resigned), did they already get paid too much?

classicrando

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Re: Case study - financial independence and its benefits
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2025, 05:30:46 AM »
If they are financially independent and do not have to work (being resigned), did they already get paid too much?

That seems like an odd question to ask on these forums in specific.  Or are you saying that anyone who is FI was, at some point, paid too much for whatever it is they did?

Metalcat

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Re: Case study - financial independence and its benefits
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2025, 06:13:27 AM »
If they are financially independent and do not have to work (being resigned), did they already get paid too much?

That seems like an odd question to ask on these forums in specific.  Or are you saying that anyone who is FI was, at some point, paid too much for whatever it is they did?

This whole thread has been fucking weird.

AuspiciousEight

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Re: Case study - financial independence and its benefits
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2025, 06:59:21 AM »
If they are financially independent and do not have to work (being resigned), did they already get paid too much?

That seems like an odd question to ask on these forums in specific.  Or are you saying that anyone who is FI was, at some point, paid too much for whatever it is they did?

This whole thread has been fucking weird.

The new MMM forums.

Less people, less posts, more weird. :D

twinstudy

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Re: Case study - financial independence and its benefits
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2025, 08:06:49 PM »
If they are financially independent and do not have to work (being resigned), did they already get paid too much?

That seems like an odd question to ask on these forums in specific.  Or are you saying that anyone who is FI was, at some point, paid too much for whatever it is they did?

You make a great point. I should also note that, for these doctors specifically, they have the option of doing private work, which is naturally higher paying. So arguably their previous public jobs never paid enough, and only now are they deciding that 'enough is enough'.

Metalcat

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Re: Case study - financial independence and its benefits
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2025, 04:18:20 AM »
If they are financially independent and do not have to work (being resigned), did they already get paid too much?

That seems like an odd question to ask on these forums in specific.  Or are you saying that anyone who is FI was, at some point, paid too much for whatever it is they did?

You make a great point. I should also note that, for these doctors specifically, they have the option of doing private work, which is naturally higher paying. So arguably their previous public jobs never paid enough, and only now are they deciding that 'enough is enough'.

This was my thinking. Hospital psychiatry is fucking brutal and often doesn't pay as well. In my level of mental health services, working for the government at one of their facilities pays less than half of what I make in private practice.

These folks are FI, they just have better employment options than working in a bureaucratic nightmare, doing insanely brutal work, for seriously substandard pay.

Ron Scott

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Re: Case study - financial independence and its benefits
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2025, 07:36:20 AM »
Government support for mental health have always been challenging.

Reminds me of what Kissinger once said about government programs in general, paraphrasing: You can make a logical case to pay for a program and a case to forget about it altogether. But you can’t make a good case to fund it halfway.

Metalcat

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Re: Case study - financial independence and its benefits
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2025, 08:13:27 AM »
Government support for mental health have always been challenging.

Reminds me of what Kissinger once said about government programs in general, paraphrasing: You can make a logical case to pay for a program and a case to forget about it altogether. But you can’t make a good case to fund it halfway.

The thing with hospital psychiatry is that A LOT of the patients they see will be paid for by the state either way. The state will either foot the bill for their psych treatment or foot the bill for the police, courts, and prison system to manage them, which would include psych care anyway.

One option is quite a bit more expensive than the other, and the other keeps the general public much safer.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2025, 08:16:21 AM by Metalcat »

twinstudy

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Re: Case study - financial independence and its benefits
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2025, 05:03:15 AM »
Update: NSW public doctors now threatening a 3 day general strike.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/apr/02/doctors-in-nsw-public-hospitals-threaten-three-day-strike-over-pay-dispute-defying-ban

Lovely to see. About time our most essential workers stood up for their own rights!

Unfortunately, our Industrial Relations Commission has declared such action illegal - ridiculous - meaning that the Union now risks fines for encouraging workers to take industrial action. How draconian.

https://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/decision/195f428f5302117dcb8b07b2

If I was told I 'wasn't allowed to strike' I think I'd suddenly develop a mental health condition that put me off work for exactly how much sick leave I had.

AuspiciousEight

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Re: Case study - financial independence and its benefits
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2025, 05:26:38 AM »
While I feel sorry for the psychiatrists, I feel more sorry for their patients who will no longer be getting treated.

People don't go and see psychiatrists just because their leg hurts or their stomach is upset. They go there because their brain, the most important part of a person, is messed up. This will, at the very least, result in an increased load on the prison system, morgue, and homeless shelters, which is where a lot of mentally ill people wind up without getting proper treatment.

There are a lot of people in the world who are criminals simply *because* they are mentally ill, and with proper treatment they can be productive, law abiding citizens.

Mental illness is just like any other form of disability, except it isn't visible.

Hopefully they can come to some sort of resolution soon.

Metalcat

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Re: Case study - financial independence and its benefits
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2025, 06:44:14 AM »
Update: NSW public doctors now threatening a 3 day general strike.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/apr/02/doctors-in-nsw-public-hospitals-threaten-three-day-strike-over-pay-dispute-defying-ban

Lovely to see. About time our most essential workers stood up for their own rights!

Unfortunately, our Industrial Relations Commission has declared such action illegal - ridiculous - meaning that the Union now risks fines for encouraging workers to take industrial action. How draconian.

https://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/decision/195f428f5302117dcb8b07b2

If I was told I 'wasn't allowed to strike' I think I'd suddenly develop a mental health condition that put me off work for exactly how much sick leave I had.

This is exactly the kind of shit that drives a healthcare collapse, which is what's happening in Canada right now.

It's horrifying to me that wealthy countries tend to do this to their own healthcare systems.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Case study - financial independence and its benefits
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2025, 05:11:17 PM »
Update: NSW public doctors now threatening a 3 day general strike.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/apr/02/doctors-in-nsw-public-hospitals-threaten-three-day-strike-over-pay-dispute-defying-ban

Lovely to see. About time our most essential workers stood up for their own rights!

Unfortunately, our Industrial Relations Commission has declared such action illegal - ridiculous - meaning that the Union now risks fines for encouraging workers to take industrial action. How draconian.

https://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/decision/195f428f5302117dcb8b07b2

If I was told I 'wasn't allowed to strike' I think I'd suddenly develop a mental health condition that put me off work for exactly how much sick leave I had.

This is exactly the kind of shit that drives a healthcare collapse, which is what's happening in Canada right now.

It's horrifying to me that wealthy countries tend to do this to their own healthcare systems.

It's penny wise pound foolish.  Which people have been doing for a long time since we have the saying for it.   :-(


twinstudy

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Re: Case study - financial independence and its benefits
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2025, 09:06:45 PM »
It also only happens because people prey on the goodwill and charity of doctors as a profession.

Imagine if plumbers or mechanics or builders decided to walk off the job - the government wouldn't be forcing them to work, and wouldn't have the guts to try to shame them into working.

Metalcat

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Re: Case study - financial independence and its benefits
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2025, 04:19:29 AM »
It also only happens because people prey on the goodwill and charity of doctors as a profession.

Imagine if plumbers or mechanics or builders decided to walk off the job - the government wouldn't be forcing them to work, and wouldn't have the guts to try to shame them into working.

I mean...kind of...but not really.

My spouse works for the federal government, they do this with just about every profession that they can deem essential. My government just recently forced postal workers back to work.

It's also less that MDs are just so nice, but more that in democratic countries where medicine is publicly funded, the government has the doctors by the balls. And because the negative impacts of bad-faith negotiation take so long to have effect, no elected politicians are particularly motivated to do what it takes to protect the integrity of a public health system.

Healthcare is extremely expensive, so it's an easy target to take small bites out of at a time, which does not tend to obviously impact the voters in a clear, natural consequences kind of way, so it's an incredibly easy target for cost savings, and over time, those bites add up to irreversible damage.

Each individual bite has no impact on the re-electability of the politician who approved it, so there's little to no incentive not to take any given bite. And then when the bites do add up and create a crisis, the government facing the crisis is usually facing something waaaaay to expensive to reasonably fix, and again, something that the average voter probably isn't impacted by.

The erosion to mental health hospital services has probably happened over many years, and many bites, and now is probably so cumbersome and expensive to try and fix that it would be politically unpopular for whomever is currently in power to dedicate that much in the way of resources to trying to fix a horribly broken system, which most voters wouldn't even care about, because the public has never given a fuck about mentally ill people.

It's political suicide to actually try and fix medical systems, and even worse, the solutions take aaaaages to actually work, so the same way the bites take years to pay off, so do the investments, so they rarely actually translate into votes.

No one politician or government ever gets the blame for breaking healthcare, and no one politician or government ever gets the credit for fixing it, and it's a MASSIVE portion of people's taxes, so it's a sitting duck target for what we call in the medical world "supervised neglect."

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!