Author Topic: Advice needed  (Read 1424 times)

sophia123

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Advice needed
« on: January 24, 2024, 10:59:26 PM »
Hello!

Kind of new here and looking for much needed financial advice.
Here are our stats (both husband and mine):

Ages 35 and 42. Background- I was divorced by age 30 with a small child and took a major financial hit (didn’t get anything from the divorce except child support). Fast forward, I met and married my now husband. Anyways, long story short, he has been carrying credit card debt which got progressively worse. His total cc debt is 25k plus a 11k educational loan for a certification program he did to make career moves recently. Our total household income is 223k (very high COL in our area). Rent is about 2600 with utilities. My 401k is only 52k and his Roth is only 35k. Savings total are around 85k.
My husband has severe financial anxieties related to childhood trauma of growing up poor and also he really set himself back by spending a good chunk of his 30s getting his parents out of financial crisis by paying off their house mortgage. We want to really get to a position of financial independence, purchase a home soon and eventually have investments that generate money in return. I know I am not very financially savvy and I am still learning, but I would really appreciate some opinions on our stats. Suggestions for improvements can help.

Forgot to mention I have a 10k cc debt which I’m gonna use my savings to just pay off soon actually.
Our first priority is to to have these cc paid off within this year and start saving up to purchase a house.I just feel like our age and certain life factors really set up back.

Tass

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3247
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Crossing some mountains
Re: Advice needed
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2024, 12:10:08 AM »
Can you lay out more clearly (1) your debts including interest rates, (2) your spending, or if you don't know it at least your fixed expenses, and (3) your assets/savings?

Freedomin5

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6545
    • FIRE Countdown
Re: Advice needed
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2024, 12:31:01 AM »
If you want to get good advice tailored specifically for your situation from the knowledgeable folks here, I would suggest posting a proper Case Study using the case study format:

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/case-studies/how-to-write-a-'case-study'-topic/

I would also suggest checking out the Investment Order for a step-by-step approach on how to get yourself out of debt and save to achieve your goals.

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/investment-order/

Don’t beat yourself up over your life situation and factors. We all come with factors that set us back. We have folks here too are divorced, who have illnesses that prevent them from working, who started late, etc. etc. etc.

We found MMM about 9 years ago and went from 0 net worth to being FI now. We followed the Investment Order. We are planning to RE (retire early) next year. Welcome to the forums!
« Last Edit: January 25, 2024, 12:34:42 AM by Freedomin5 »

Ron Scott

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1156
Re: Advice needed
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2024, 05:05:38 AM »
You are asking the right questions and are already getting your head around your issues. You’re in a good position now to kickstart a new financial life.

Once you pay off your cc debt you’ll be able to save a meaningful chunk of that good income on a consistent, planned basis and you’ll notice the growth quickly.

At this point, you have two strong assets going for you: Your readiness to move forward and your jobs. Next comes planning for consistent savings and smart investing. Both are critical.

Commit yourself to developing these plans—written plans, authored by both of you—in a reasonable period of time, maybe a few months. Get focused.

This forum has some great people with sound ideas that can help you. But I wouldn’t rely on it exclusively.

One of the most accessible places online for advice on budgeting, saving, and investing is: https://bogleheads.org/forum/index.php   They offer a different and healthy perspective, are not focused on retiring as soon as possible, and have a very large user base, who support the forums, face-to-face conferences, a wiki, and a podcast series. I also highly recommend the book The Bogleheads Guide To Investing.

Finally, be wary of financial advisors, who promise to “take the complexity out of investing” and hold your hand. We all know how they make their money. Savings and investing has a few tricks, but this is not brain surgery and KISS is still the best policy.

Many of us started poor. You’re on the way now. You got this.



« Last Edit: January 25, 2024, 05:52:31 AM by Ron Scott »

sophia123

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Advice needed
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2024, 08:26:46 AM »
Thank you everyone for replying.

I will have to double check on the interests on my husbands cc.
Our monthly includes a high car insurance for both my husband and I. I have a new car ( needed it for baby plus my older kid) so car payment for me is 550 plus 280 insurance. My husband has an old car, but his insurance is high due to bad driving history from youth, which is around 270 I want to say. We haven’t bought new phones in  a while and our phone bill is 100 combined. Paying for some monthly subscription of tv (cannot remember which one since we also share a few accounts with family). That’s probably around 20 a month.
We eat out maybe once or twice a week. Probably adds up monthly, but with a little baby and lack of sleep it’s hard to keep cooking at the moment. I spend 100 a month for deep cleaning of our place. I really think it’s the cc payments killing us at the moment.

I’ll check out the links for investment ideas. If anyone has any other suggestions for investing once debt is paid off and savings have begin, please do advise.

Metta

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 773
Re: Advice needed
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2024, 08:49:18 AM »

My husband has severe financial anxieties related to childhood trauma of growing up poor and also he really set himself back by spending a good chunk of his 30s getting his parents out of financial crisis by paying off their house mortgage. We want to really get to a position of financial independence, purchase a home soon and eventually have investments that generate money in return. I know I am not very financially savvy and I am still learning, but I would really appreciate some opinions on our stats. Suggestions for improvements can help.

I think this anxiety is the important thing here. (My guess is that you both have some sort of financial anxiety and that should be treated with kindness and gentleness.) What worked for us was a weekly meeting to go over cash flow. Not budgeting because my financial anxiety got in the way of that. Basically you sit and look at what is going in and out each week. You discuss it. You discuss your values and your fears. You set monthly goals for saving and other important things (getting enough sleep, etc.). What matters most to you? Was there any spending you regret because it didn't bring you hoped for? All money is a trade off in values.

You are both at the perfect age to be dealing with these things. You are not too late. Plus you have an impressive income, which means that as you work through debts and accumulate savings you will eventually find that your wealth will snowball.

Turtle

  • CM*MW 2023 Attendees
  • Pencil Stache
  • *
  • Posts: 608
Re: Advice needed
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2024, 10:12:49 AM »
Thank you everyone for replying.

I will have to double check on the interests on my husbands cc.
Our monthly includes a high car insurance for both my husband and I. I have a new car ( needed it for baby plus my older kid) so car payment for me is 550 plus 280 insurance. My husband has an old car, but his insurance is high due to bad driving history from youth, which is around 270 I want to say. We haven’t bought new phones in  a while and our phone bill is 100 combined. Paying for some monthly subscription of tv (cannot remember which one since we also share a few accounts with family). That’s probably around 20 a month.
We eat out maybe once or twice a week. Probably adds up monthly, but with a little baby and lack of sleep it’s hard to keep cooking at the moment. I spend 100 a month for deep cleaning of our place. I really think it’s the cc payments killing us at the moment.

I’ll check out the links for investment ideas. If anyone has any other suggestions for investing once debt is paid off and savings have begin, please do advise.

Depending on the interest rates of the CC's, you may be able to get a debt consolidation loan with your bank, or take advantage of a rollover deal.  Having a lower rate could help you pay off faster, as long as you can resist the temptation to charge more.

Also, I want to give you some encouragement.  I also started over in my early 30s due to a divorce and while I won't be as early as some FIRE folks, I'm still making it in 25 years with a mediocre to midrange salary during that time.

Laura33

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3512
  • Location: Mid-Atlantic
Re: Advice needed
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2024, 12:21:08 PM »
First:  you can do this.  You will need patience and commitment, though.  It took you many years to get you into your current situation, and so you should presume that it will take several years to turn around the bad stuff.  There are no such things as quick fixes.

The good news is that every expense you can cut, every penny you save, provides a double benefit:  lower expenses mean you need less to be able to retire, and also leave you more money to save with.  For an illustration, see this MMM post:   https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/.  The kicker is that the reverse is also true:  every extra penny you spend increases the amount you need for retirement by a quarter, and it also leaves you fewer pennies to save toward that goal. 

That's why the first thing you need to do is get a handle on what you are actually spending.  You know the First Rule of Holes?  When you're in one, stop digging.  But you can't really do that until you know exactly how big your shovel is.  Start tracking every penny -- you don't even need to do anything with it yet, you just need to develop accurate data to base your decisions on.  I used to do this just by carrying a little notebook around, or there are apps you can use, or the notes page on your phone, or whatever.  Just find some method that works for you.

While you are doing that, you can also take the time to evaluate and try to fix issues that are driving you to spend more than you need to.  For ex., the poverty trauma:  this is a real thing, and it can create negative habits that last a long time -- and it's often not something you can fix on your own.  Consider helping your DH get into some therapy, or go to couples financial counseling, or find some other way to learn ways to manage those sorts of fears.

Also read MMM, particularly about stoicism and optimism and needs vs. wants.  We are very, very good at rationalizing and justifying spending money we don't have on things we don't need -- and one of the most common ways of doing that is to justify things as a "need" when they're really not.  You know what is a need?  A roof over your head, food in your belly, heat in winter, physical and emotional safety, and a way to bring in the money to provide the above. 

You know what is not a need?  A brand new car with a $550/mo. payment and $280/mo. insurance.  Yes, you need transportation to your job and to get groceries and the like.  But you didn't need a new vehicle unless your prior vehicle was a motorcycle or literally did not fit a carseat -- and even then, you didn't need a new car that is costing you over $800/mo.!!  You chose that particular solution to your problem because you wanted it -- you used a legitimate need to justify a specific choice that you wanted.

I'm not saying this as criticism, btw.  Every single one of us buys more than we actually need every single day.  I am just a big, huge fan of acknowledging that for what it is, vs. trying to bullshit myself that I really need this fancy lifestyle.  That is where the stoicism bit fits in, btw:  it reminds you of how little you actually need to live a good life and be happy.  And that makes you conscious of all of the luxury surrounding you, which in turn makes you happy and reveals areas where you're paying for luxury that isn't actually making you as happy as you thought it would.  How different would you feel now if you had, say, a $300 car/insurance tab instead?  If you'd gone into the car shopping thinking "how little can I spend to find a safe, reliable vehicle that fits my kids?" instead of "I really need a new car for the kids," you might have hit that $300 mark -- and you might not even be noticing the difference in your daily life.   

Small example of how you can make this work in your daily life:  say you go to the grocery store and buy a package of strawberries for $9, because it's February and cold outside and they're bright red and look delicious.  Most people think along the lines of "strawberries are healthy, my family needs healthy foods, nothing is in season, so I really don't have any choice but to spend $9 to keep my family healthy." 

What you should be thinking:  "My family needs healthy foods.  But I can get just as much health benefit from frozen berries, or some other kind of fruit that costs less.  I don't actually need to spend that $9.  But boy, I am craving some fresh, ripe fruit right about now, so I am going to splurge and treat myself to those, because they look delicious."

Guess which person tends to be happier in the long run?  If your anchor your expectations to your actual needs, you know you only actually need to spend maybe $2 on frozen fruit to be plenty healthy.  That's totally affordable.  And then, if you buy the fresh berries anyway, you are consciously treating yourself to a splurge, because you can afford to -- and being able to splurge on things they really want tends to make people happy. 

Sorry for that big long frolic and detour -- the way people talk to themselves is a big deal to me, and forcing yourself to be straight with yourself can bring a huge (and necessary) change in perspective.  Just remember you don't need to do it all at once.  Start with the tracking and the therapy and the reading, work on how you guys talk about wants vs. needs, and that will lead you to the next step and the next and the next.  Good luck!

JimDogRock

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Advice needed
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2024, 03:36:59 PM »
There have been some good responses already.
You mentioned financial anxiety. Part of me worries about the reaction that one with anxiety might have to the Mr. Money Mustache face-punching & no tolerance for BS spending style. The other part of me says that this isn't personal, so suck it up buttercup. It's about maximizing what you get out of your income while ruthlessly slashing away anything that isn't truly making you happier or getting you closer to your financial goals.

I'll reiterate that if you're looking for procedural help, then providing more specifics on the existing loans, interest rates, employer 401k matching, and all other expenses is going to be essential. There are a lot of analytical people here that can help you plan out debt paydown strategies and places to look to cut spending.

There are some details shared already, so we can make some guesses.
$223K annual income.
$11,150 per year to pretax retirement contributions if it's a 5% rate.
$58K of income taxes (just a quick guess plugging in California as the state)

Let's round it to $150K of income after taxes & pretax retirement.
That's $12,500 per month to budget for.
$2,600 for rent & utilities.
$1,100 for vehicles (this should be buffed to account for maintenance, fuel, and replacement savings)
$700 for eating out with 3.5 people 6 times per month + the house cleaning (these are both trading your money for time to not cook & clean)
$120 for a streaming service and phone bills.

We've got almost $8,000 left to account for per month, and the two generally largest categories of spending, housing & transportation, are already tallied.
I didn't subtract out a guess at the credit card payments and education loan yet, but you only mentioned $35K in credit card bills and $11K for the education program loan.
If the goal is to eliminate these debts this year, you are looking at about $4,000 per month. Heck, I bet you could find $6,000 per month and be done with the debt this summer.
Then you can move on to figuring out how to maximize your savings using the Investment Order that was linked earlier as a great initial guideline.

I'm going to link a classic Mr. Money Mustache blog post.
https://mrmoneymustache.com/2012/04/18/news-flash-your-debt-is-an-emergency/
The section that I'm reminded of for your situation is towards the end of the post.
Your Debts Are Tiny.

Seriously. This little bit of debt in the grand scheme of things can get knocked out by you two so fast.
Work together, be honest & non-judgmental about past spending, make a simple plan, and execute it.

Freedomin5

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6545
    • FIRE Countdown
Re: Advice needed
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2024, 05:06:28 PM »
Another tip: Pay yourself first.

That means, that you siphon of a chunk of your income towards debt and savings (401k, IRA, taxable accounts, downpayment on a home) every single month as soon as your paycheck hits your account, before you spend on monthly expenses. Then you live off the remainder.

If you find that your lifestyle is too inflated to live off the remainder, then find ways to cut expenses whether it’s by eating out less or buying a used car with cash instead of owning a new car with payments, etc. The folks here can help with that, if you post your monthly expenses.

I’ll check out the links for investment ideas. If anyone has any other suggestions for investing once debt is paid off and savings have begin, please do advise.

This one is easy. The majority of us are big proponents of index investing. Keep it simple. Don’t try to time or beat the market. One of the best advice / information I found (and many others here also follow) is JL Collins. He’s written a popular book in FIRE circles called The Simple Path to Wealth. You can probably find it at your public library.

His Stock Series contains a lot of good information on investing: https://jlcollinsnh.com/stock-series/. This is the investment philosophy we followed to get to FI in less than 10 years (we are high income like you) as well as the 3-fund portfolio as per Canadian Couch Potato (we are Canadian).


Metta

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 773
Re: Advice needed
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2024, 07:50:25 AM »
One more thing that my husband reminded me of which I think has been mentioned but not in such a pithy way as he said it: "The small things are the big things."

He said this in context of my sister, who is currently refusing small solutions to everyday problems because "That's not the most important problem to solve." But the small things are the easy things to solve. You buy a car only once. Buy cheap, by all means. See Laura's post where she mentions this. But each day we get an opportunity to practice frugality on the smaller things. This not only saves money, but it builds the frugality muscle so that when the larger, rarer things come up you know how to approach them.

We got rich paying attention to the small things. You are starting out in a better place than we did, you can do it as well.

Ron Scott

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1156
Re: Advice needed
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2024, 08:06:22 AM »
I’ll check out the links for investment ideas. If anyone has any other suggestions for investing once debt is paid off and savings have begin, please do advise.

As stated several times above, index investing (buying funds that match the performance of the overall market) is a great approach when combined with an overall plan.  It is based on a large body of research finding that either picking your own stocks or buying actively managed funds in which so-called experts claim to do better than the overall market average FAILS in comparison to “buying the market”.

Most brokerages offer their own large index funds. Popular ones are Vanguard and Fidelity et al. The person who was most instrumental in creating index funds did so to help average people invest for their futures, and to avoid the traps set by financial advisors.

The general philosophy is this:

1. Live below your means: Spend less than you earn, creating room for investment.
2. Develop a workable plan: Set realistic financial goals and tailor your investments accordingly.
3. Never bear too much or too little risk: Understand your risk tolerance and choose an asset allocation that matches it.
4. Invest early and often: Start investing as soon as possible and contribute regularly to benefit from compounding.
5. Diversify!: Spread your investments across different asset classes and sectors to reduce risk.
6. Invest with simplicity: Keep your portfolio clear and manageable, avoiding unnecessary complexity.
7. Use index funds when possible: Favor low-cost, passively managed funds that track the market instead of active management.
8. Minimize costs: Reduce fees and expenses that eat into your returns.
9. Minimize taxes: Take advantage of tax-advantaged accounts and invest strategically to optimize tax efficiency.
10. Stay the course: Avoid emotional decisions and stick to your long-term plan through market fluctuations.

These 10 key rules offer a practical and low-stress approach to achieving financial goals through long-term, diversified, and low-cost investing.

More details can be found here:
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Bogleheads%C2%AE_investment_philosophy

If you read the books offered by posters above and focus on creating a plan for your family, you will do well. There is some learning involved but it is not difficult.

eyesonthehorizon

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1035
  • Location: Texas
Re: Advice needed
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2024, 11:03:33 PM »
... Small example of how you can make this work in your daily life:  say you go to the grocery store and buy a package of strawberries for $9, because it's February and cold outside and they're bright red and look delicious.  Most people think along the lines of "strawberries are healthy, my family needs healthy foods, nothing is in season, so I really don't have any choice but to spend $9 to keep my family healthy." 

What you should be thinking:  "My family needs healthy foods.  But I can get just as much health benefit from frozen berries, or some other kind of fruit that costs less.  I don't actually need to spend that $9.  But boy, I am craving some fresh, ripe fruit right about now, so I am going to splurge and treat myself to those, because they look delicious."

Guess which person tends to be happier in the long run?  If your anchor your expectations to your actual needs, you know you only actually need to spend maybe $2 on frozen fruit to be plenty healthy.  That's totally affordable.  And then, if you buy the fresh berries anyway, you are consciously treating yourself to a splurge, because you can afford to -- and being able to splurge on things they really want tends to make people happy.  ...
I have been trying to find a way of saying this for years, excellent example & phrasing! It feels important to put the weight back on the choices that are being made & have that be a source of pleasure & pride.