Car advice needed....

[Al]

I've been a long time reader but rarely join in the conversation.  Since I found MMM, we sold our home and bought one that is less than half the size and closer to everywhere we want and need to be among other changes.  Unfortunately, we still live in a pretty unmustachian city where there are many places where we still need to drive.  This is due to choosing to live near family.  At any rate, we "need" to buy a car, in cash of course.  We've decided we want to spend no more than $8K.  What are some of the best options for that price?  We are a couple with 2 kids.  Most of the places we drive are within 5 miles.  Once or sometimes twice a week we drive further to visit family or for chosen volunteer or social activities.  I'm anxious to hear what you all have to say.... 

[PDXTabs]

My short list:

• Toyota Matrix
• Honda Fit
• Ford Focus
• Mazda 3
• Kia Soul

[Monkey Uncle]

I'd add Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic, and Hyundai Elantra to PDXTabs' list.

[EarthSurfer]

Al,
Do you live in a snowy climate? 
Do the kiddos need child or booster seats?
Do you camp or overnight road trip to visit friends or family often?

Thanks!

[Last Night]

Toyota Matrix

[jo552006]

My belief is that these cars may be more expensive up front but tend to last longer with less issues as long as you do general maintenance.  Note that I would shoot for under 70k miles preferably somewhere around 40k.  As with ALL cars, you should look up issues specific to THAT MODEL.  For instance, 2006- ???? Civics could have porous engine blocks.  I bought a 2005, and was going to pass as the owner originally had it listed as an '06.  Our 2 door '05 civic has given us very little issues since we've owned it.  Also, as I do my own work on cars, I'm amazed at how much less rust is under my wife's civic than any other car I've ever owned.  Did you know that sometimes brake calipers DON'T need a 5lb sledge to come off?

In no particular order:

Honda Civic
Honda Accord
Toyota Camry
Toyota corolla
(probably tons of other cars are dead reliable, this is just my personal list)

If you're looking for more room, there's TONS of options out there that are pretty good, check consumer reports.  My gut  on a more spacious model is toyota Rav-4.  Don't buy a jeep.  I can't say it enough, they are money pits.  I have LITERALLY NEVER seen a jeep that wasn't a money pit.

Also note that you can get a BRAND NEW car for like 12-15k.  Somebody at my work got either a kia or hyundai for like 12.5k.  Came with an awesome warranty.

As long as you stay within the US, you can often travel to a location with cheaper (or less rusty) vehicles and drive home with a better car for less money.  Legal arbitrage as far as I understand it.  I'm going down south for vehicles at some point in the future.

Good luck.

[AnEDO]

Two of my coworkers have suffered significant injuries in auto accidents the past 2 years.  One was t-boned by a red light runner and one was rear ended at high speed by a guy in a full size pickup.  I get the wanting to be economical but my advice is to get a larger mid-size 4 cyl car such as an accord or camry.  Size matters as much as safety ratings.  see www.iihs.org and www.safercar.gov for crash test ratings.

[Al]

Al,
Do you live in a snowy climate? 
Do the kiddos need child or booster seats?
Do you camp or overnight road trip to visit friends or family often?

Thanks!

We live in the mid-west so we get a bit of snow and occasional big snowfall.  The kids have booster seats but won't need them for much longer.  We have a very unmustachian F-350 and travel trailer that we'll use when traveling long distances.  We actually lived full-time the travel trailer for a year.  It's having some work done then we plan to sell it and will likely get rid of the truck at that time as well.  If it makes financial sense, we'll buy a smaller travel trailer because we really enjoy visiting national parks, etc. 

[Al]

Toyota Matrix

This is the 2nd time a Matrix has been mentioned- we'll have to look into it.  I have had a Corolla in the past that I bought new.  We had it until it had over 130K miles on it and it never needed a repair.  We shouldn't have gotten rid of it!

[Al]

My short list:

• Toyota Matrix
• Honda Fit
• Ford Focus
• Mazda 3
• Kia Soul

Thanks for the list!  Are you basing your recommendations on reliability or just cost? 

[Al]

My belief is that these cars may be more expensive up front but tend to last longer with less issues as long as you do general maintenance.  Note that I would shoot for under 70k miles preferably somewhere around 40k.  As with ALL cars, you should look up issues specific to THAT MODEL.  For instance, 2006- ???? Civics could have porous engine blocks.  I bought a 2005, and was going to pass as the owner originally had it listed as an '06.  Our 2 door '05 civic has given us very little issues since we've owned it.  Also, as I do my own work on cars, I'm amazed at how much less rust is under my wife's civic than any other car I've ever owned.  Did you know that sometimes brake calipers DON'T need a 5lb sledge to come off?

In no particular order:

Honda Civic
Honda Accord
Toyota Camry
Toyota corolla
(probably tons of other cars are dead reliable, this is just my personal list)

If you're looking for more room, there's TONS of options out there that are pretty good, check consumer reports.  My gut  on a more spacious model is toyota Rav-4.  Don't buy a jeep.  I can't say it enough, they are money pits.  I have LITERALLY NEVER seen a jeep that wasn't a money pit.

Also note that you can get a BRAND NEW car for like 12-15k.  Somebody at my work got either a kia or hyundai for like 12.5k.  Came with an awesome warranty.

As long as you stay within the US, you can often travel to a location with cheaper (or less rusty) vehicles and drive home with a better car for less money.  Legal arbitrage as far as I understand it.  I'm going down south for vehicles at some point in the future.

Good luck.

Thanks for the advice!  I'm not sure we could get anything in our price range with such low miles though.  We are definitely trying to shoot for under 100K though.  We're really trying to avoid all debt with the exception of our mortgage.  Spending more than 8K would not allow us to do the house projects that need to get done or we would have to get a loan.

[Al]

Two of my coworkers have suffered significant injuries in auto accidents the past 2 years.  One was t-boned by a red light runner and one was rear ended at high speed by a guy in a full size pickup.  I get the wanting to be economical but my advice is to get a larger mid-size 4 cyl car such as an accord or camry.  Size matters as much as safety ratings.  see www.iihs.org and www.safercar.gov for crash test ratings.

Good tip- we are definitely worried about safety especially since we have 2 kids.

[DarkandStormy]

You should be able to find an '08 Prius for around $7,500.  Heck, I can price some '10 and '11 Priuses under $8K as well.  Everything I'm seeing they have mileage around ~100,000 miles or slightly less.

You'd want to ask about the hybrid battery, if it's been replaced.  But from everything else I've read, these cars last a long time with minimal maintenance.

[Last Night]

Toyota Matrix

This is the 2nd time a Matrix has been mentioned- we'll have to look into it.  I have had a Corolla in the past that I bought new.  We had it until it had over 130K miles on it and it never needed a repair.  We shouldn't have gotten rid of it!

People are not aware of the practicality of the vehicle.



Seats fold fully flat, I've transported a fridge and a stove in this thing and it will carry 4 people without a problem.

I also like the idea of a prius, not sure the premium for an equivalent mileage/year to a matrix would be worth it if you don't drive a lot however.  Also the prius has less cargo space, but it definitely makes for a great alternative.

[ketchup]

A Toyota Matrix / Pontiac Vibe sounds perfect for you.  I'd recommend something a little smaller like a Hyundai Accent if kids weren't in the picture (or if they'd very infrequently be aboard).

[FI-REality]

Toyota Matrix

This is the 2nd time a Matrix has been mentioned- we'll have to look into it.  I have had a Corolla in the past that I bought new.  We had it until it had over 130K miles on it and it never needed a repair.  We shouldn't have gotten rid of it!

FYI, if your kids are in rear-facing child seats, the Matrix is WAY too small.  We test drove one and I was so close to the steering wheel that it just wasn't safe.

We actually test drove a dozen vehicles (cars, SUVs, trucks) before settling on a min-van (yes, with only 2 kids).  None of the other vehicles had enough leg room in the back, making the front seats unsafe.  The van is basically a massive hatchback.  We are still a little cramped in the front with the rear facing seat in the middle (why can't they just push those seats back another 6 inches?), but we're not so close as to be dangerous.

The 2nd place vehicle was a 4-door F-250.  Sooooo much rear leg room, over double that in the F-150; seriously, hilarious amounts of leg room... front seat all the way back to where you can't touch the pedals and the front seat back is still not touching the rear facing seat in the 2nd row.  However, we couldn't find one for a reasonable price, and my wife didn't really want to drive a vehicle that big (I don't blame her).

We also tossed around the idea of a Mazda 5, removing the 2nd row seats and putting the kids in the 3rd row to give us enough leg room.  However, the back seats are basically touching the rear bumper, putting the kids in harms way in a rear-end collision... so that was a no-go.

The kids have booster seats but won't need them for much longer. 

Missed this on my first read through.

If your kids are forward facing and just using boosters, basically any car will have enough leg room.  My nephews fit fine in my tiny 2 door hatchback.

[jo552006]

@Al

Yes you can.  Our 2005 Honda Civic (bought in probably 2013 or 2014) cost us I think $6,500.  It's a 2 door, but it works, and only had like 60k miles on it or something.  If you find a clean car (no rust or issues) you may want to spend extra money as well.  Trust me there are deals out there, and you may have to travel to get them, but make a weekend road trip out of it.  Same goes for ANY car you buy, not just the ones I mentioned.

[teamzissou00]

So - not to hijack or anything, but I have a similar issue at hand, except one more kid.

My wife drives a Sienna, which is great.  I technically just need a commuter, but it needs to comfortably fit three car seats.  Not boosters, 3 car seats.  I looked at videos of the Honda Fit with 3 car seats, and it was 'possible' with those uber skinny $400 seats.  I'm all for spending $1200 in seats to save 10k in car cost.  That being said, it looked as though the driver and passenger had to scoot up their seats to a point it would be uncomfortable to drive each day.  I'm not looking for that. 

There is a website (car seat guru?) that gives what 3 seats fit in what car and all that, but they don't do it based on comfort, just possible. 

Any recommendations on vehicles that comfortably fit 3 seats (not minivans)? 

My existing list of cars to check out:
 Smaller side:
- Honda CRV
- Subaru Forester
- Toyota Matrix
- Subaru Outback

Larger side:
- Lexus RX350
- Toyota Highlander
- Honda Pilot

I'm looking for a vehicle with 100-120k miles on it, and want to drive it 6k miles a year until 175k (so about 10 years) - and hoping to spend no more than 8k-15k.

[Last Night]

So - not to hijack or anything, but I have a similar issue at hand, except one more kid.

My wife drives a Sienna, which is great.  I technically just need a commuter, but it needs to comfortably fit three car seats.  Not boosters, 3 car seats.  I looked at videos of the Honda Fit with 3 car seats, and it was 'possible' with those uber skinny $400 seats.  I'm all for spending $1200 in seats to save 10k in car cost.  That being said, it looked as though the driver and passenger had to scoot up their seats to a point it would be uncomfortable to drive each day.  I'm not looking for that. 

There is a website (car seat guru?) that gives what 3 seats fit in what car and all that, but they don't do it based on comfort, just possible. 

Any recommendations on vehicles that comfortably fit 3 seats (not minivans)? 

My existing list of cars to check out:
 Smaller side:
- Honda CRV
- Subaru Forester
- Toyota Matrix
- Subaru Outback

Larger side:
- Lexus RX350
- Toyota Highlander
- Honda Pilot

I'm looking for a vehicle with 100-120k miles on it, and want to drive it 6k miles a year until 175k (so about 10 years) - and hoping to spend no more than 8k-15k.

Toyota Venza, I believe the widest rear seat in its class:

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/152-venza-forum/328243-can-you-fit-three-child-seats-back-venza.html

[Valhalla]

Honda Fit (manual tranny), Honda Civic, Honda Accord (all manual trannies if possible, Honda automatics are iffy).

[marielle]

So - not to hijack or anything, but I have a similar issue at hand, except one more kid.

My wife drives a Sienna, which is great.  I technically just need a commuter, but it needs to comfortably fit three car seats.  Not boosters, 3 car seats.  I looked at videos of the Honda Fit with 3 car seats, and it was 'possible' with those uber skinny $400 seats.  I'm all for spending $1200 in seats to save 10k in car cost.  That being said, it looked as though the driver and passenger had to scoot up their seats to a point it would be uncomfortable to drive each day.  I'm not looking for that. 

I'm confused. Do you have 3 kids? You already have one car that is great for 3 car seats, I'm assuming you would have to switch the car seats back and forth yes? Or would you have 6 car seats? It just seems easier to swap cars when necessary and have one person drive the smaller car that can't fit car seats. The only scenario I can think of is if one person drops the kids off and the other picks them up...but then you have 6 car seats! That's a lot. Maybe I'm missing something.

[mm1970]

Toyota Matrix

This is the 2nd time a Matrix has been mentioned- we'll have to look into it.  I have had a Corolla in the past that I bought new.  We had it until it had over 130K miles on it and it never needed a repair.  We shouldn't have gotten rid of it!

My 2006 Matrix has 120k miles and is great.  I really want a minivan.  But this thing will probably never die.  I suppose it will live till my oldest is out of high school (7 more years), by then I won't need a minivan.

[mm1970]

Toyota Matrix

This is the 2nd time a Matrix has been mentioned- we'll have to look into it.  I have had a Corolla in the past that I bought new.  We had it until it had over 130K miles on it and it never needed a repair.  We shouldn't have gotten rid of it!

FYI, if your kids are in rear-facing child seats, the Matrix is WAY too small.  We test drove one and I was so close to the steering wheel that it just wasn't safe.

We actually test drove a dozen vehicles (cars, SUVs, trucks) before settling on a min-van (yes, with only 2 kids).  None of the other vehicles had enough leg room in the back, making the front seats unsafe.  The van is basically a massive hatchback.  We are still a little cramped in the front with the rear facing seat in the middle (why can't they just push those seats back another 6 inches?), but we're not so close as to be dangerous.

The 2nd place vehicle was a 4-door F-250.  Sooooo much rear leg room, over double that in the F-150; seriously, hilarious amounts of leg room... front seat all the way back to where you can't touch the pedals and the front seat back is still not touching the rear facing seat in the 2nd row.  However, we couldn't find one for a reasonable price, and my wife didn't really want to drive a vehicle that big (I don't blame her).

We also tossed around the idea of a Mazda 5, removing the 2nd row seats and putting the kids in the 3rd row to give us enough leg room.  However, the back seats are basically touching the rear bumper, putting the kids in harms way in a rear-end collision... so that was a no-go.

The kids have booster seats but won't need them for much longer. 

Missed this on my first read through.

If your kids are forward facing and just using boosters, basically any car will have enough leg room.  My nephews fit fine in my tiny 2 door hatchback.

We bought the 2006 Matrix when kid #1 was 4 months old (rear facing).

Got through 1.5 years rear facing.
Had kid #2 in 2012.
He was rear facing for 2 years. 

We were able to transport 2-3 kids regularly with the rear facing seat.

I'm short but my husband is 6' tall.

We had no problem.  But I'm sure it depends on the particular carseat.  Some are noticeably "taller" than others.  We did not go for the absolute largest convertible carseat.  Some people do this with the expectation that they will keep it until the kid needs a booster.  We were fine with a carseat "just big enough" to get us through to the forward facing years.

[mm1970]

Any recommendations on vehicles that comfortably fit 3 seats (not minivans)? 

My existing list of cars to check out:
 Smaller side:
- Honda CRV
- Subaru Forester
- Toyota Matrix
- Subaru Outback

Here is where maybe the Matrix won't work with 3 full carseats.  We were able to do 3 seats in back, but two of them were boosters.  We never tried with the Diono radians though.

This is where google or just a test drive is your friend.  I can't speak for the CRV, but the Toyota RAV4 cannot handle 3 seats in the back.  Not made for it (my friend had twins and learned the hard way).  Also, even the Explorer sucked for that.

But seriously I'd keep the minivan!

[RethinkTheRatRace]

So - not to hijack or anything, but I have a similar issue at hand, except one more kid.

My wife drives a Sienna, which is great.  I technically just need a commuter, but it needs to comfortably fit three car seats.  Not boosters, 3 car seats.  I looked at videos of the Honda Fit with 3 car seats, and it was 'possible' with those uber skinny $400 seats.  I'm all for spending $1200 in seats to save 10k in car cost.  That being said, it looked as though the driver and passenger had to scoot up their seats to a point it would be uncomfortable to drive each day.  I'm not looking for that. 

There is a website (car seat guru?) that gives what 3 seats fit in what car and all that, but they don't do it based on comfort, just possible. 

Any recommendations on vehicles that comfortably fit 3 seats (not minivans)? 

My existing list of cars to check out:
 Smaller side:
- Honda CRV
- Subaru Forester
- Toyota Matrix
- Subaru Outback

Larger side:
- Lexus RX350
- Toyota Highlander
- Honda Pilot

I'm looking for a vehicle with 100-120k miles on it, and want to drive it 6k miles a year until 175k (so about 10 years) - and hoping to spend no more than 8k-15k.

I'd look into a Mazda5 or Ford CMax. They're smaller than you wife's car, and on par with most of the cars mentioned here, but both should fit your kids with zero issues. They both also get pretty good fuel mileage.

[PDXTabs]

My short list:

• Toyota Matrix
• Honda Fit
• Ford Focus
• Mazda 3
• Kia Soul

Thanks for the list!  Are you basing your recommendations on reliability or just cost?

Both, I think that they are all good cars. I own a 2014 Ford Focus hatchback. I have a couple friends with Fits, one friend with a Matrix (its mostly Corolla) and couple with the Soul.

[skeeder]

With two kids I actually would recommend a few others, the Matrix and Vibe are good cars, but seem to come at premiums.  I've noticed most sedans are more price efficient on the used market.

• Toyota Camry (4cyl)
• Honda Accord (4cyl)
• Mazda 6
• Scion xB
• Ford Fusion

[DoubleDown]

At $8k, consider buying a used "luxury" or classic vehicle (Lexus, Acura, Jaguar, Infiniti, Mercedes, etc.) that is in great condition. You can likely find something no more than 6-8 years old and under 60-70k miles that is reliable, safe, and that will have all kinds of performance and nice features you wouldn't otherwise get. The depreciation on those vehicles is outrageous. Once someone else has eaten all that depreciation, you can get a great car at a very modest price. The other thing is, once those cars have already depreciated so much, they tend to hold their remaining value very well (meaning you can likely sell it later for pretty much what you purchased it). If you start searching for cars online, you'll likely find many luxury cars that are very close in price to their non-luxury counterparts, but with many more extra features.

[HipGnosis]

At $8k, consider buying a used "luxury" or classic vehicle (Lexus, Acura, Jaguar, Infiniti, Mercedes, etc.) that is in great condition. You can likely find something no more than 6-8 years old and under 60-70k miles that is reliable, safe, and that will have all kinds of performance and nice features you wouldn't otherwise get. The depreciation on those vehicles is outrageous. Once someone else has eaten all that depreciation, you can get a great car at a very modest price. The other thing is, once those cars have already depreciated so much, they tend to hold their remaining value very well (meaning you can likely sell it later for pretty much what you purchased it). If you start searching for cars online, you'll likely find many luxury cars that are very close in price to their non-luxury counterparts, but with many more extra features.

I don't think so.  I just did a search for 2012 Acura TSX's (which is not a highly rated car) near me.  CarGurus shows them from $14K - almost $20K.    Maybe it's a regional thing?

[jo552006]

Not that I agree with the luxury vehicle thing, but I don't think double down was talking about 5 years old.  They had a v8 jaguar that was like 10 years old for 5k near me.  Friend picked up an Audi A4 for 12.5k  but it was much older.  I don't recommend it.

[Lski'stash]

Posting to follow.

[pbkmaine]

Also note that the Pontiac Vibe was built in the same factory as the Matrix and is essentially the same car.

[afulldeck]

As a 6' guy with long legs I could never get in the Hondas, mazda, etc without bang my legs on the steering wheel or head on the way in. In the Mazda the seat would not go back far enough. After searching for cars for a number of years I settled on the Chrysler 300, although I did think of buying a truck. This car has been reliable, fairly inexpensive (purchase, gas and insurance)  and provides comfort when I drive. And I can pull a fare sized trailer when I need too. I can't see myself ever going smaller.

[Monkey Uncle]

As a 6' guy with long legs I could never get in the Hondas, mazda, etc without bang my legs on the steering wheel or head on the way in. In the Mazda the seat would not go back far enough. After searching for cars for a number of years I settled on the Chrysler 300, although I did think of buying a truck. This car has been reliable, fairly inexpensive (purchase, gas and insurance)  and provides comfort when I drive. And I can pull a fare sized trailer when I need too. I can't see myself ever going smaller.

Obviously I don't know your personal situation, but I don't think it is true across the board that tall people can't drive small cars (and 6' isn't all that tall anyway).  My 6'2" son drove a Hyundai Elantra for several years, and then a Toyota Corolla for a few years after that.  He never had any problems, although it would have been tough for another tall person to sit behind him in the back seat.  I know a guy about 6'3" who drove a Nissan Sentra for years.

[ketchup]

I know a guy about 6'3" who drove a Nissan Sentra for years.

Every tall (6'1-6'5") guy I know that drives a small car seems to have a Sentra.

[HipGnosis]

As a 6' guy with long legs I could never get in the Hondas, mazda, etc without bang my legs on the steering wheel or head on the way in. In the Mazda the seat would not go back far enough. After searching for cars for a number of years I settled on the Chrysler 300, although I did think of buying a truck. This car has been reliable, fairly inexpensive (purchase, gas and insurance)  and provides comfort when I drive. And I can pull a fare sized trailer when I need too. I can't see myself ever going smaller.

I met a somewhat tall guy with long legs years ago.  He said Saab or Volvo was best.  I don't know if that's still true.

[DarkandStormy]

I know a guy about 6'3" who drove a Nissan Sentra for years.

Every tall (6'1-6'5") guy I know that drives a small car seems to have a Sentra.

I'm 6'2'' and drive a Prius-c very comfortably.  I couldn't fit into the new (since they switched them to hatchbacks) Yaris though.  I fit OK into the Scion (now Toyota) sedans when I looked.