Can you negotiate a burglar alarm contract or am I being unreasonable?

[Dulcimina]

I have a quote for $600 installation fee (includes Honeywell equipment, doorbell camera, window sensors, 1 glass break sensor, fob), and  $40/month recurring fee. Three year contract.

I have actually read the fine print, and feel that the contract is unfair.   Are these terms industry standard? If so, why would anyone pay for a security alarm contract when the company has no enforceable obligation beyond the initial installation, and you put yourself at financial risk in several ways?

The company warrants:
•   Wiring, door locks or door hardware 3 months
•   Electronics 12 months

The company does not warrant/have responsibility for:
•   Anything beyond normal wear and tear. I'm OK with this;
•   Interruptions in service including malfunction of equipment, acts of nature, power failures, etc. My main issue is that I would still need to pay recurring fees even if the company is unable to provide service;
•   Service to equipment except on the terms and prevailing rates of Company. I would be OK if the warranty period was longer;
•   The possibility of the system being compromised or circumvented.  I see where they are coming from, nothing is invulnerable, but this is not reassuring;

• No warranty that the company can provide in all cases the function for which the system is installed or intended. Not OK. With the exception of interruptions of service described above or improper use by me, I want a warranty of service;

•   No representations/warranties as to the condition of the equipment, its merchantability or its fitness for any particular purpose. This is a problem for me;

• No liability for failure to notify the Customer or authorities in the event of an alarm. This is a problem for me. If I'm paying for monitoring, I expect them to do so;

•   If found liable for any loss or damage due to failure to perform, the Company’s liability is limited to $1000. Really?

Things I warrant or am liable for:
•   Any condition created to my property by installation of equipment (e.g. drilling holes, driving nails, making attachments or doing any other thing or things necessary or pertinent to the installation. I'm OK with everything except the underlined section;
•   Any errors in installation not called to the attention of the company in writing within 5 days of completion of the installation. Not sure. If there is a 3-12 month warranty, shouldn't installation problems that are not immediately apparent be covered under that longer warranty period?
•   All service and parts not covered by warranty;
•   Payment of equipment.  Payment of 75% of remaining recurring fees if I try to terminate early.  This is a problem if I am not allowed to assign the contract to a buyer;
•   Monthly fees which may increase with 30 day notice, capped at 5% per year. What is the benefit to me to being locked into a three year contract if the fees go up during that term?
•   Payment when service is delayed or prevented by acts of nature, power failures etc.;
•   Indemnification/hold Company harmless in any claim or lawsuit filed or made by third party against the company. This seems like a potential financial nightmare;
•   Pay company all costs, expenses and costs of litigation for collection. Probably not an issue because I would pay as contracted. But what if they make a mistake in their records, am I still liable then?
•   In the mandatory binding arbitration section, the party who prevails receives costs and fees.  However, the customer would still need to pay interest and collection expenses for amounts overdue?

In addition, the company is able to assign the contract, but the contract doesn't state that I can assign to the new occupant if I move early. Monitoring is included, but monitoring isn't actually defined in the contract.  I assume it's 24-7, but who knows? Will they contact me if an alarm goes off? Who knows?

Thoughts?

[dandarc]

Stock answer: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/06/07/safety-is-an-expensive-illusion/

I doubt that significant contract language will be modified (total value of this is under $2500 spread over 3 years). But you can always ask for a lower price for pretty much anything.  "I kind of like it, but it is just too expensive - sorry" would probably be a good way to start that conversation. At least if this is similar to the retail purchase contracts I'm familiar with, the price is usually a fill-in-the-blank situation, and the sales person is likely to have at least a little bit of discretion.

Another reason you might sign anyway is if it saves you on insurance. Never had insurance so expensive I looked into this but I've always been asked whether we have a security system. My in-laws were more or less forced to get a security system after they made a claim for a burglary that happened while they were out of the house. Filing a claim tends to get you looked at pretty hard by the insurance companies, so they also had to put a new fence around the back yard (which WTF is your fence in poor repair / not completely enclosing the yard - you've got a pool . . .)

[Sibley]

My general response to alarm stuff is you don't need an alarm. You either need therapy, or you need bars on your windows.

Oh, and I've HAD an alarm. (My roommate needed therapy.) It got set off several times, and not once did the alarm company respond in a way that would be helpful if someone actually broke in. No one had actually broken in of course, it was set off by my cats doing cat things and we adjusted sensors as a result.

If you're concerned with security, take steps to improve your security. Longer screws in door hinges, window stops, lock your doors, etc. Plenty of things you can do that don't involve ongoing costs.

[herbgeek]

My sister has cameras, that automatically send an alert when activity is detected.  She doesn't pay $40/month for this.

[2Birds1Stone]

My company won't even consider negotiating T&C's or EULA license agreement language on contracts that are under a certain threshold ($250k/yr in our case). YMMV

[Omy]

We use Simplisafe. You buy the components you need and install them yourself. Super easy. And the monthly fee to the monitoring company is under $20/mo. And it reduces our home insurance costs.

[BiggerFishToFI]

We use Surety with Honeywell equipment for ~$25/month. The reminders if garage doors are left open or locks unlocked, and the ability to auto-lock and close the doors is nice insurance. But we live within walking distance of a decent sized metro area with a vagrant problem and tons of petty theft / druggies looking for places to sleep.

One thing to note, even if the security system calls the police, the chance that they even show up in a timely manner is not very high. As I understand it they get false alarms from security systems all the time so often ignore them.

[GuitarStv]

When we had the security system is always seemed like more of a hassle than it was worth . . . we would occasionally accidentally triggered the alarm, and we weren't super impressed with the security response (or lack thereof) so we took a different approach to home security.  Rather than continue to pay expensive monthly fees for monitoring, we have done the following:
- Replaced light weight wood doors with steel security doors
- Reinforced door jambs that the locking mechanism goes into (usually this is the area that gives in when someone kicks down a door)
- Keep a minimum of expensive/valuable stuff in the house

Been happy with that for a decade now.

[NWGriot]

My take is that the security alarm industry is an Illusionist industry. They sell a false sense of security. I think that there are a few specific situations where an alarm system can be useful, but most people would find little value in them. After all, if the alarm should be set off, that only tells you that your premises have already been breached. It doesn't stop anyone from breaking in, it only potentially shortens the amount of time that they'll be inside. If you should capture video, what are you going to do with it? The police don't consider it evidence, and they won't even show much interest in looking at it. You can share it at Nextdoor or something, but that doesn't deter a thief in any way. Paying a contract for monitoring is a total waste of money, and I think it's probably the source of most of the profit for alarm companies. Most alarm contracts self-renew, and the company will make it very difficult for you to get out of the contract. If the monitoring company calls the police, they won't respond quickly, and maybe not at all. However the police may well fine you for any false alarms. The only monitoring that has any value at all is the monitoring that you provide yourself. You can get a system that that notifies you directly without paying a monthly fee. I think wired systems are much more reliable than wireless, but wired is more expensive to install, plus you'd have wires running all over the house. With a wireless system, each sensor has a battery in it that needs to be replaced regularly.

I've owned a wine shop in Seattle for 14 years now. Due to the crime situation in Seattle these days and the fact that I sell alcohol, I expect to be broken into now and then. In fact, I've suffered two break-in attempts this year alone. Neither attempt was successful, and I credit that largely to the alarm system. Each time, someone broke glass in the front of the store. This set off the glass break detector, and the alarm inside the store is so loud that it's really impossible to be in the room while it's going off. Both times, I think the fact that there was a loud alarm going off prevented people from coming inside and actually stealing things. So, I've had to replace two expensive pieces of glass this year, but nothing was taken, except for two empty bottles off the window display. One of my fellow wine shop owners in another neighborhood was broken into this year as well. He didn't have an alarm system, and he lost some product. He's addressed the problem with bars on the windows, but I didn't want to make my place look like a fortress. I made the mistake of starting out with a monitoring contract, but eventually after a struggle with the company I got the system set up to notify me directly. So twice this year, I've had to get up at 4:00 a.m. and go down to the shop and watch it until I could get some boards up over the windows. I called the police for one of the incidents, and an officer came out, took a couple pictures, commiserated with me about the bad start to my day, and he was gone. There's been no follow-up.

I think the alarm system has been a value at the shop because it's in a relatively public location and it makes a hell of a lot of noise when it goes off. Also, because of the glass break detector, it goes off before the thief is even inside. In a home situation, the thief is usually breaking in from a sheltered place, maybe the side or back of the house, where they can't be seen. This will make them much bolder, even if an alarm should go off. One thing I've learned is that privacy is precisely the opposite of security. If you have a very private yard, that gives a thief cover to break into your house. If you want security, one option is to make it so that your neighbors can see all the doors and windows in your house. Whether your neighbors are looking after you or not, the thief doesn't know that and they'll be much more nervous about trying to get inside.

Here in Seattle, you can ask the police Community Officer to come out and give you a security check at your home. I imagine they'll do that in most other cities as well, and I think that's worth doing. You'll get some actual fact based tips on how to improve your security instead of security snake oil that the alarm companies will try to sell you.

[Captain FIRE]

I can't see the company agreeing to negotiate the terms on such a small contract.

[six-car-habit]

 My Dad's brother-n-law owns a small security alarm company that covers residential and some businesses, in an east coast MCOL, in the suburbs outside the big local city. They have a small monitoring center that is probably manned by a sleepy person at night. That part of the family makes decent income from the business, they've ran it for decades now.

  They would probably adjust the price and maybe make a small 'pen-and-ink' change on an individual contract, but i don't think they'd fundamentally change the forms they've been using for many years.

 I look at it like driving past a house that has a pre-printed store-bought sign that says " Trespassers will be Prosecuted ! " .  Because what, the homeowner is going to bring a civil suit against the law-breaker ?   Sure prosecuted if the DA takes up the case. perhaps.

 Acquaintance had tires slashed in driveway. Had his own security cameras pointing throughout the yard.  Camera picked up couple of potentially younger folks, one in a baseball hat, one a hoodie sweatshirt, stooping near the tires of 2 cars, and stabbing them. Video wasn't top notch quality, and the officer felt he couldn't make an id off the grainy video. I think it may have been some ex-friends of his kid, who still lived at home - but homeowner was doubtfull anyone was mad at their kid . Anyhow, the case / investigation went no-where, only the tire dealership made an extra sale that week.

[Jon Bon]

My general response to alarm stuff is you don't need an alarm. You either need therapy, or you need bars on your windows.

Winner Winner!

Notice how their commercials are always feature rich families in the suburbs.....?

[Just Joe]

My sister has cameras, that automatically send an alert when activity is detected.  She doesn't pay $40/month for this.

Could you share what kind of equipment? I want to do the same but I have no desire to pay a subscription to anyone. I want to buy the tech and use it indefinitely.

[GilesMM]

My sister has cameras, that automatically send an alert when activity is detected.  She doesn't pay $40/month for this.

Could you share what kind of equipment? I want to do the same but I have no desire to pay a subscription to anyone. I want to buy the tech and use it indefinitely.

There are quite a few cameras that will detect motion and send you a notice.  However, you may get many false alarms, especially if they are outdoors.  I don't know of any that will store data in a cloud without a cost but I guess you could get a home storage solution for the system.  I use FosCam cameras with a subscription to make sure expensive toys don't walk away from my barn/shed.

Alarms are mostly peace-of-mind if you live in a scary area and are afraid at home for your own safety or concerned about your 'stuff' when away.  It can be useful to have an alarm that goes off if someone opens an exterior door or window at 3am while you are sleeping.  It can also be useful to know if someone has entered your house while you are on vacation in Mexico.  Alarms combined with interior cameras can let you (and monitoring company) confirm that an alarm has detected an actual intruder.

[dandarc]

They're saying a security system does not provide much at all in the way of actual additional security.

[Sibley]

My general response to alarm stuff is you don't need an alarm. You either need therapy, or you need bars on your windows.

Winner Winner!

Notice how their commercials are always feature rich families in the suburbs.....?

I'm curious why you guys say this? Do you mean that people who want greater security for themselves (or their stuff) are loony? I didn't have a security system myself (although I installed security screens on all my doors and windows - tres chic in da hood ;-)) but think it can be a good idea and would consider it in my next place. However I wouldn't get an expensive system like the OP is asking about but some cameras that would alert my of a potential intruder. I don't care about my very minimal stuff but I do care about me.

An alarm system is soothing a worry. It's not actually making you more secure. So, if you feel like you need an alarm (to make you feel more secure), then no, you don't need an alarm. You need to address whatever is making you not feel secure - which may well require therapy to work through those emotions and emotional reactions.

For people who have good reason to not feel secure, then an alarm isn't going to help the problem and they need to take practical measures to address the issues. Reinforcing doors and windows, better locks, etc.

My phrase is just the pithy answer that gets this idea across. I do find it amusing the number of people I know who "feel unsafe" yet don't regularly lock their doors.

[dividendman]

Ring is only $100/yr and you can buy cameras, door/window sensors, motion sensors etc. to your hearts content. Seems reasonable. I like the cameras so I can check on the kids playing without being there.

[Cassie]

When I owned a house I had simply safe and only paid for monitoring when we went on vacation. That really keeps the cost down. I only got this after my big dog died. They are the best for security.