Can You Change a Slob?

[Fishindude]

I've got a family member that is a real nice person and family member, but is just a complete slob to the point it is affecting myself and others.   It probably eats at me more than others because I am very meticulous about taking care of my home, tools, toys, vehicles, etc.    He does not take care of anything.  His vehicle looks like a homeless person lives in it, it's not maintained and dirty all the time.  He walks in the door and drops his boots, coat, anything he's carrying, etc. wherever he sees fit.  Doesn't take care of his home or lawn which is a real nice place.    Constantly borrowing my tools and equipment and leaving them in a mess or un-returned.  His tools are scattered outdoors and throughout his garage and you can barely see the floor in a four car garage. 

You get the general picture.   Has anyone else dealt with this and had any luck getting things changed for the better?

[joonifloofeefloo]

Yes, all of this can change (I've seen it happen)...if the person wants it to. Does the person want it to?

If not, totally okay to stop visiting their home, loaning your stuff, etc.

You can invite person to your place for short visits if you're willing to clean up after, or meet in a third location like a coffee shop.

[Beegee]

I might have clicked on this post to see if there is hope for me, haha. I'm a bit of a slob.  And yes, i'd love to change!  I try to be tidy, but I look around me and it seems that everyone else around me just naturally has their shit together and are just plain "tidier" people.

[ElleFiji]

I'm mostly reformed.
But if I'm sick or depressed, I let it fly.
I heavily rely on a good Friday night clean up, and I go through sections of my house periodically when they get out of control. I use the kon Marie method, and while it is close to permanently effective in some departments like clothes and books, it is only effective for about a week at a time for papers.

I really had to learn what enough storage space looks like, and to learn ways of storage that work for me. If I designed my own space, so much would be open storage, because it is better for me.

Your relative might have grown up with systems that were completely impossible for his brain and given up. Or live in a house of two antagonistic systems, and given up.

Since you lend tools and love tools, it wouldn't be weird for you to schedule a tool day, bring your oils and sharpeners and go to the hardware store and look at storage. And then put the storage where the tools get naturally left. And to lay out expectations for the tools you lend "because I would never want to have  a fight over just tools, but I'm a tool nerd, and when you borrow my tools, can I lend you my blanket and can you promise to wrap them in the blanket in the shed overnight?"

Or you could just let the person be.

[Laura33]

People can change.  But you can't change people.  The only person you control is yourself, so figure out what you need to do to put up some boundaries so his behavior doesn't bug you so much.  E.g., stop lending your stuff to someone who doesn't take care of it; if he comes in and drops his stuff in the hallway, ask him to hang it up or put it somewhere; don't ride in his car; meet him somewhere outside of your houses; etc. 

One big picture thought:  why are you assuming that you are right and he is the one who needs to be fixed?  You are doing what is right *for you*; so why wouldn't you assume that he is doing what is right *for him*?  Why is how he maintains his house/garage/yard your business?  If it's your business because he is mistreating your stuff, just stop giving him your stuff to mistreat -- that's a natural consequence.

I grew up with a mother who insisted on everything in its place; she literally could not sleep at night if there was a dirty dish in the sink or my schoolwork left out on the table.  My brain does not work that way.  Not just that I don't care, or that I am missing an organization gene -- when my house is too ordered/pristine, my brain starts to itch and I get antsy.  I am *not* a total slob or hoarder -- but I do find minimalism extremely uncomfortable and cannot relax around too much order/structure; I need imperfection, I need things out of place, not-perfectly-aligned, the detritus of life on the coffee table, etc. 

This, of course, drives my mother batshit crazy -- because she, of course, is "right," and my preference for a degree of disorder is a character flaw that must be fixed.  But now it's *my* house, and I have the right to maintain it and organize my stuff in a way that makes me comfortable.  And anyone who is presumptuous enough to try to "help" me fix it to their standards can go fuck themselves. 

[HipGnosis]

Better for whom?  Better in who's opinion?!?
My dad use to bitch, moan, cuss and fume over people doing things wrong (in his opinion).  It made me think about this more than most.
I've come to the conclusion of;  If the person isn't breaking any laws and isn't causing others problems, it's their prerogative to live their life (and spend their money) as they choose.
Its your prerogative to not loan your tools, but I hope you're honest about why.

[Fishindude]

This is a family member.  He takes my tools and things for personal use thinking nothing of it, then when I need something it's missing.
Also trashes out my place while he is there and thinks nothing of it.   When we do a weekend together, I spend a good bit of my time picking up after him. 
I'm stuck living with this guy, he is family. 

I would gladly buy him the stuff he needs, if he'd just leave my stuff alone.   Also would have no problem loaning anything if it was promptly returned and put back in it's place quickly in same condition it went out in.

Sucks that I need to lock things up, change locks, etc. on my own stuff just to keep things available and in good condition.   
I'm by no means a neat freak, but I do keep things in reasonable order.

[ysette9]

It depends whether you live with this person or not. From your two posts it sounds simultaneously like you don't live together ("he comes over") and that you do ("I'm stuck living with this guy"). If you don't live wit him then you just have to be clear about boundaries and expectations. This is your house and your stuff. If he doesn't take care of your things then he loses the privilege of borrowing/using them. Stick to it. If he can't be respectful of your space then he doesn't get to coke over and you meet somewhere else.

If you live with him, then you need other tactics. If you aren't married to him then I suggest you move out and then apply the tactics above. If you are married to this person then that is a whole other bag of worms.

[dougules]

Maybe we should also ask if you can change an OCD neat freak. 

[NoVa]

Maybe we should also ask if you can change an OCD neat freak.

There is a great t-shirt out there:
I have CDO
It’s like OCD but all the letters are in alphabetical order
AS THEY SHOULD BE

[Inaya]

I might have clicked on this post to see if there is hope for me, haha. I'm a bit of a slob.  And yes, i'd love to change!  I try to be tidy, but I look around me and it seems that everyone else around me just naturally has their shit together and are just plain "tidier" people.

Same! And my husband hates it, so I'd like to change for his sake as well as my own. But I've had no progress thus far because my superpower is self-sabotage.

[Beegee]

Haha, Inaya!  So relate-able.

My husband hates it too.  But with three kids and fulltime jobs, I prioritize everything else and can't get my act together.  I know exactly how is happens... I make a note to self:  put stuff away.  But what about the stuff that has no place?  Put it on some surface somewhere.  Vow to come back to it later.  Get distracted chasing children, cooking dinner, mopping up spills, braiding kids' hair, sunscreening children, working, etc etc etc.  A week later and there is stuff EVERYWHERE.  Every surface in the house.   GAH!

[scantee]

Have you talked to him about this? That seems like the very first step in addressing this issue.

"Hey, slobbyfamilymember, when you come over and make a mess, or use my tools and don't put them back, I feel like you are not treating me or my home with respect. I'm happy to have you here and let you use my tools (I'll even buy a set for you if you need them) but my expectation is that you'll leave things in the state they were before you arrived. If you don't feel like you can do that, I am still excited to get together somewhere other than my home."

[Cranky]

Well, the slob has to want to change. But you can certainly stop lending him your tools, which seems like it will be more effective.

I am an orderly person by nature, and my dh is... not. I knew this about him perfectly well when I married him (I had seen his college apartment.) We've been married a long, long time now, and he really is much tidier, not because I "changed" him, but because I asked him to do some fairly simple things (laundry in laundry basket, dishes in the dishwasher, trash in the trash can) and he has attempted to do those things because he loves me.

I don't pester him (much) about them, but over the years he is much, much improved.

I don't think neatness or minimalism is some big moral issue, it's an aesthetic preference. OTOH, I am a lot less likely to lose my keys because I always put them away.

[joonifloofeefloo]

You're not stuck living with it.
"Family" doesn't equal "stuck with."
I understand this (stuck with) may be your family's culture, but it doesn't mean it needs to be yours.
People leave family members all the time, because it's a real option and can be the healthiest of all options.

That said, the most important step here is your work on your boundaries. That can be a whole huge learning curve, but so worth it. You'll stumble about in it at first, and probably find yourself doing a pendulum swing in that effort (most of us do), but you'll get it!

The nice thing is, once you change you (boundaries), he'll be a-okay just the way he is.

[dougules]

Well, the slob has to want to change. But you can certainly stop lending him your tools, which seems like it will be more effective.

I am an orderly person by nature, and my dh is... not. I knew this about him perfectly well when I married him (I had seen his college apartment.) We've been married a long, long time now, and he really is much tidier, not because I "changed" him, but because I asked him to do some fairly simple things (laundry in laundry basket, dishes in the dishwasher, trash in the trash can) and he has attempted to do those things because he loves me.

I don't pester him (much) about them, but over the years he is much, much improved.

I don't think neatness or minimalism is some big moral issue, it's an aesthetic preference. OTOH, I am a lot less likely to lose my keys because I always put them away.

I honestly seriously thought you were my spouse.  I had to go back and read some of your other posts to figure out you weren't. 

[marble_faun]

It shouldn't matter if *his* place and car are messy.  They are his, and he can manage them however he sees fit.

The core problem seems to be his borrowing your tools without permission and returning them out-of-whack.  You're just going to have to ask him point-blank not to do that.  It's better to have a direct conversation than to just change the locks, which seems a bit passive-aggressive.  He seems like a basically decent person from what you have said, so a conversation should fix it.

You could also start presenting him with tools as gifts for his birthday or Christmas. Gradually help him build his own supply so he doesn't need your things anymore.

As for your house... at first you made it sound like he just leaves his shoes and coats lying around when he visits, then you said he "trashes" the place.  Is he causing serious damage to your property, or is he just causing some minor clutter to exist?  Maybe you could tell him a specific place to leave his coat, shoes, etc. to avoid having those things out of order.