Can you afford expensive goods?

[Mrs. Fire Lane]

Today I was called by a pollster asking questions about my views on healthcare for the upcoming elections.

At the end they asked some demographic information, including my income. Then they asked something like, how would you describe your income:

• not enough to meet your needs
• enough to meet your needs but nothing extra
• enough to meet your needs and a little extra but can't afford expensive goods
• enough to meet your needs and you can afford expensive goods
• more than enough

I said I didn't know what was meant by expensive so I'll say I can't afford expensive goods. But can I? This week I bought myself a new hardcover book and some craft beer. These are luxuries to me but to others they might seem trivial. I was talking to Mr FireLane and he said its all relative and maybe it's a question about how you feel in comparison with your peers. I would say that I feel like I live extravagantly but certainly not by New York City standards. Are expensive goods buying fair trade coffee beans in bulk or dinner at The Cheesecake Factory every week? Or is it only an expensive dinner if there's a Michelin star? New clothes at Target? At Macy's? At Burberry? What would you say if someone asked you?

[twinstudy]

It's a strange line of questioning - it assumes that the act of affording expensive goods is a necessary step in the income ladder. It also assumes you need to be able to afford expensive goods in order to have 'more than enough' money.

I don't know how I would answer that question anyway. I have more than enough money to survive, and even to FIRE, but I don't feel like I have more than enough money because I would never say that of a resource - can one ever have 'more than enough time'? And I don't measure any of these concepts by my ability to afford expensive goods, though I can and do sometimes buy expensive things (but then there are lots of things I would never buy, also).

[FIRE Artist]

I think it is just to gauge your sentiment about your income, not actual income. You may make a median income but have few needs and consider going out to the movies the height of luxury, you may make in the upper 10% and still think your lifestyle is lacking in luxuries because you define them differently.

It is how people feel about their economic status that is important to the statisticians with respect to elections.

[Cranky]

Yeah, I think this is an emotional question. Do you feel comfortable or do you feel pinched?

[GilesMM]

“Expensive goods” to me means overpriced labels, e.g. Tiffany, Rolls-Royce, Marathon, Rolex, Tesla, Apple, Gulfstream, etc

[Just Joe]

We have enough b/c we don't spend money on luxury - although from a certain POV - we're surrounded by luxury.

[Dicey]

The more $$ we have, the less we seem to want.

So much of this is incredibly subjective.

We own a nearly $2M home outright. Our cars are old, but nice, and bought with cash. We have rental properties. I thrift or ebay most of our clothes and shoes. I grocery shop at Costco and Grocery Outlet. DH is a master DIY-er. We give a lot to causes we care about.

We have lots of contrasts in our lives. For example, we wanted an RV. We did tons of research, went to an RV show, chose the make and model we wanted, and waited five years to buy it used with cash. It's fancy. It has a diesel engine, and when we travel, I don't care how much we spend on fuel (or DEF).

IMO, what is really a luxury is knowing we can pretty much afford anything life throws at us, and just about anything we decide is a must-have. Best of all, so many "problems" just evaporate when the money pot is full. It's crazy!

[Freedomin5]

I would probably say I have more than enough. I also am ambiguous about the concept of "expensive goods". I mean, I could probably afford some expensive goods, but not all the expensive goods in the entire world. And wouldn't it depend on the category? I mean, I could probably afford expensive ice cream, but I couldn't afford a 50,000 sf mansion in Shanghai or a private jet. Regardless of whether I can afford expensive goods or how I define expensive goods, I do think we have more than enough, as evidenced by the large chunk of money we put into savings and investments each month.

[Metalcat]

The more $$ we have, the less we seem to want.

So much of this is incredibly subjective.

We own a nearly $2M home outright. Our cars are old, but nice, and bought with cash. We have rental properties. I thrift or ebay most of our clothes and shoes. I grocery shop at Costco and Grocery Outlet. DH is a master DIY-er. We give a lot to causes we care about.

We have lots of contrasts in our lives. For example, we wanted an RV. We did tons of research, went to an RV show, chose the make and model we wanted, and waited five years to buy it used with cash. It's fancy. It has a diesel engine, and when we travel, I don't care how much we spend on fuel (or DEF).

IMO, what is really a luxury is knowing we can pretty much afford anything life throws at us, and just about anything we decide is a must-have. Best of all, so many "problems" just evaporate when the money pot is full. It's crazy!

Exactly this.

Hilariously, folks tend to conceptualize "luxury" items at things they don't need or want, which is pretty funny when you think about it.

The question makes perfect sense to me.

Luxury for me isn't an expensive purse that I don't want, it's that I can spend whatever I need for optimal outcomes and don't have to stress about it.

My front teeth have been porcelain for 20+ years because of a basketball injury. I was a broke student who couldn't afford expensive things when I first had them done and they were done very suboptimally, but it's what I could afford.

One veneer fractured a few years ago, and I could have just replaced the one for about $600 after insurance, but it would never match the other janky one, nor would I want it to.

It's my front teeth and I have a big Julia Roberts sized smile, obviously I was going to get it done properly because I can. I paid the best cosmetic dentist and the best gum surgeon thousands of dollars to fix the gum problems created by the janky work and fix the teeth properly and beautifully.

I spent about $5000 more than I needed to and didn't even blink at the cost, or have to sacrifice something else that we wanted. We just spent it and never thought about that money again.

Other people might not care so much about teeth and see that spending the same as a designer purse, but we all have priorities we're willing to spend on, and it's a radically different experience spending on something that matters when you can readily afford to vs being stressed out of your fucking mind because it matters, but you can't afford it.

I've been a medical professional giving people quotes for work they desperately want done but can't afford. Life is shitty when you can't afford the expensive things that matter to you.

I've been broke and sobbing about expensive things I can't afford: car repairs, tuition, dental care, vet bills, etc.

It's damn nice not to have to make the kind of Sophie's Choice decisions not being able to afford expensive things can cause.

[johndoe]

Adding to the ambiguity: I'm skeptical that the average poll respondant fairly defines their 'needs'.  Having a great life seems to result in the average person having more 'needs'.  (And this reminds me of 'rights' too)  Ask an aspiring social media enfluencer vs developing-nation-Amish-mustachian and you'll see wide gap in 'needs' ha! 

[Ron Scott]

I think the question is a simple baseline-setting one designed to establish how satisfied a respondent is with her current financial position, in a general sense. These questions are nice to use in cross tabs and, with large surveys, in correlation and regression, etc.

The researchers understand they’re assessing a relative perception with a quick gut-reaction  and are unconcerned that definitions of “afford”, “expensive”, etc. vary by individual.

Survey pros will often ask a few questions that touch on general themes like this and develop a composite score for the individual’s perception.

[GuitarStv]

I could easily buy a couple Lamborghinis if I wanted to with my current savings . . . so I'd probably lean towards 'yes' when asked if I can afford expensive goods.

[neo von retorch]

I could easily buy a couple Lamborghinis if I wanted to with my current savings . . . so I'd probably lean towards 'yes' when asked if I can afford expensive goods.

Ah, therein lies the rub.

• Requiring a large expenditure; costly. Marked by high prices.
• "expensive stores."
• Occasioning expense; calling for liberal outlay; costly; dear; liberal.

But also

describe your income

A Lamborghini would be dear, a liberal outlay, because it would seriously interrupt my plans, my freedom, the way I've designed my life.

Also, it's not my income (exactly) that makes lots of things that might be classically labeled as "expensive" quite trivial.

Over the past two weeks, we replaced our roof and got very fancy garage doors/openers. My spouse said "I've never owned something so nice!" But these big expenses were not "dear" in that they don't have an appreciable impact on our life design. In fact, they are just part of it now. We plan on having a really nice, really well-maintained home. It's my third house. My first one was so-so but relatively neglected. My second house was DIY well-maintained, albeit quite imperfectly and with few gaping omissions. In the meantime, I went from a net worth the day I bought my first house of roughly negative $13 to the day I sold my second house (after buying the third) of positive $1.4 million. If I had spent so liberally all this time, it would have been quite dear. And my income in 2007 was about 1/4th what it is now.

My income, though, would probably start to fall down a bit if I was doing this kind of big spending throughout the year. (That's not the plan... one or two more big expenses, driveway rehab, possibly a fence...) Unless, of course, you start to label your dividends and investment growth as income? (Which isn't really a stretch.)

EDIT: See attachment (ha) well some Lamborghini but don't forget the Bugatti. That would take more than all of my liquid assets combined... !!!

[twinstudy]

“Expensive goods” to me means overpriced labels, e.g. Tiffany, Rolls-Royce, Marathon, Rolex, Tesla, Apple, Gulfstream, etc

There's a good argument that some of those things aren't overpriced. E.g. I want a Rolex Daytona or a PP 5205g and I can find neither at retail price; both sell for above RRP on the grey market. Hard then to say they are overpriced, at least at retail.

[GilesMM]

“Expensive goods” to me means overpriced labels, e.g. Tiffany, Rolls-Royce, Marathon, Rolex, Tesla, Apple, Gulfstream, etc

There's a good argument that some of those things aren't overpriced. E.g. I want a Rolex Daytona or a PP 5205g and I can find neither at retail price; both sell for above RRP on the grey market. Hard then to say they are overpriced, at least at retail.

Does a $25,000 Daytona do anything that a $200 Seiko doesn't do?

[GuitarStv]

“Expensive goods” to me means overpriced labels, e.g. Tiffany, Rolls-Royce, Marathon, Rolex, Tesla, Apple, Gulfstream, etc

There's a good argument that some of those things aren't overpriced. E.g. I want a Rolex Daytona or a PP 5205g and I can find neither at retail price; both sell for above RRP on the grey market. Hard then to say they are overpriced, at least at retail.

It's tricky.  'Overpriced' means more than something is worth.  Worth can be judged by the value an item can fetch on the used market (in your example fetching greater prices than new), or it can be judged by the utility of the item (in your example, offering no utility beyond that of a 5$ waterproof digital watch).  So it's really down to how the individual values a thing.

[Ron Scott]

“Expensive goods” to me means overpriced labels, e.g. Tiffany, Rolls-Royce, Marathon, Rolex, Tesla, Apple, Gulfstream, etc

There's a good argument that some of those things aren't overpriced. E.g. I want a Rolex Daytona or a PP 5205g and I can find neither at retail price; both sell for above RRP on the grey market. Hard then to say they are overpriced, at least at retail.

Does a $25,000 Daytona do anything that a $200 Seiko doesn't do?

So it's really down to how the individual values a thing.

Bingo GuitarStv.

If you try to convince a Daytona owner he overspent by $24,800 he will look at you like you're from Mars.

If you don’t value something that’s fine. But don’t assume you have a lock on understanding value or that others share your opinion.

[Telecaster]

There's a good argument that some of those things aren't overpriced. E.g. I want a Rolex Daytona or a PP 5205g and I can find neither at retail price; both sell for above RRP on the grey market. Hard then to say they are overpriced, at least at retail.

Another example, Birkin bags that cost much more on the secondary market than they do new.   It is really interesting to me that Rolex and Hermes could capture more value from their products, but they choose not to.   

[RWD]

EDIT: See attachment (ha) well some Lamborghini but don't forget the Bugatti. That would take more than all of my liquid assets combined... !!!

The Bugatti Chiron might not even be the most expensive car pictured there. I see at least one Koenigsegg which are also $3M +/- vehicles...

[RedmondStash]

"Afford" is a weird word.

Could I sell some assets and buy a (somewhat) flash car? Yes.

But there could be problematic consequences down the road. The more I spend now, the less is growing for the future, and the future is uncertain.

Plenty of people spend on (and thus "afford") flash cars, thereby going into debt and eventual bankruptcy.

Basically, you don't find out whether you could have afforded something expensive until the end of the game, when there's no longer anything you can do about it.

So yeah the question is confusing to me. Having access to $$ isn't the same as being in a position in which spending that $$ is completely safe.

[HenryDavid]

The implied framing of the survey questions is revealing.
It’s “normal” to assume a frame where rising income equals increasing satisfaction of desires, like climbing a pyramid.
At the top: “expensive goods.”
Nirvana! Utopia! Start singing “looks like we made it . .. !”

But if your frame is more like: how can I, regardless of my income or assets, live in a way that makes lighter claims on the planet’s limited resources, and coheres with my values, while remaining full of interest and enjoyment and satisfaction?
In that frame, “expensive goods” sort of disappear from view. Who frikkin cares?
Or, “expensive” gets redefined as “too costly for the environment and future generations.” And why would you aim to “afford” that?

[Wintergreen78]

Being able to afford expensive goods and buying expensive goods are two separate things. I’d say I can afford them, but don’t often buy expensive things.

Several years ago we went to a work lunch and got driven in someone’s really nice Audi. I daydreamed about it a little bit and looked it up. I realized I could actually buy it with cash, and it really wouldn’t even be that difficult. I might need to work one more year to pay for it. Then I realized I was perfectly happy with my VW hatchback and went on with my life.

[partgypsy]

at work for surveys I think we have (2 lower categories), can meet needs (basic necessities and bills), and can meet needs and have some money left over.

Everyone is going to define expensive goods differently, to make the question almost useless.

[Just Joe]

We could pull equity out of our home and buy all sorts of nice luxury things but we'd be paying the mortgage down for a long time. And ongoing costs for some luxury things is steep.

We can afford luxury perhaps but we are drawn to quality, value and durability b/c we can't spent wildly.

[reeshau]

"Wealth consists not in having great possessions, but in having few wants.”

– Epictetus

[Dicey]

The more $$ we have, the less we seem to want.

So much of this is incredibly subjective.

We own a nearly $2M home outright. Our cars are old, but nice, and bought with cash. We have rental properties. I thrift or ebay most of our clothes and shoes. I grocery shop at Costco and Grocery Outlet. DH is a master DIY-er. We give a lot to causes we care about.

We have lots of contrasts in our lives. For example, we wanted an RV. We did tons of research, went to an RV show, chose the make and model we wanted, and waited five years to buy it used with cash. It's fancy. It has a diesel engine, and when we travel, I don't care how much we spend on fuel (or DEF).

IMO, what is really a luxury is knowing we can pretty much afford anything life throws at us, and just about anything we decide is a must-have. Best of all, so many "problems" just evaporate when the money pot is full. It's crazy!

On re-reading this, I realized I missed something obvious. The word I missed was "income". Haha, income! Neither DH or I ever made more than $100k/annum from an employer in our careers. I FIRED right after we got hitched, so I'm not even suggesting we had two incomes. Mind you, I was pretty much FI when we got married, but our income has never been a huge number. We made our goals by saving, investing, doing occasional lucrative side gigs (house flipping) and DIY-ing almost everything.

Conclusion: I am completely unqualified to answer this question.

[twinstudy]

“Expensive goods” to me means overpriced labels, e.g. Tiffany, Rolls-Royce, Marathon, Rolex, Tesla, Apple, Gulfstream, etc

There's a good argument that some of those things aren't overpriced. E.g. I want a Rolex Daytona or a PP 5205g and I can find neither at retail price; both sell for above RRP on the grey market. Hard then to say they are overpriced, at least at retail.

Does a $25,000 Daytona do anything that a $200 Seiko doesn't do?

It will keep time most likely to +2/3 seconds per week without a battery.

[Dr. Pepper]

Today I was called by a pollster asking questions about my views on healthcare for the upcoming elections.

At the end they asked some demographic information, including my income. Then they asked something like, how would you describe your income:

• not enough to meet your needs
• enough to meet your needs but nothing extra
• enough to meet your needs and a little extra but can't afford expensive goods
• enough to meet your needs and you can afford expensive goods
• more than enough

I said I didn't know what was meant by expensive so I'll say I can't afford expensive goods. But can I? This week I bought myself a new hardcover book and some craft beer. These are luxuries to me but to others they might seem trivial. I was talking to Mr FireLane and he said its all relative and maybe it's a question about how you feel in comparison with your peers. I would say that I feel like I live extravagantly but certainly not by New York City standards. Are expensive goods buying fair trade coffee beans in bulk or dinner at The Cheesecake Factory every week? Or is it only an expensive dinner if there's a Michelin star? New clothes at Target? At Macy's? At Burberry? What would you say if someone asked you?

It has to be self defined and relative so it will differ based on the individual. For me I guess the answer would be that we could afford expensive goods, but we hate wasting money. As an example I needed a new computer chair and instead of buying a new one I found a nice used lazy-boy one on FB marketplace for 40$. At the same time we have a maid come and clean our home every other week and since we both work it's worth the expense to get the extra free time. For both examples there may be someone who feels like a new chair is not a waste or using a maid is, it will be up to the individual to decide.

[spartana]

The more $$ we have, the less we seem to want.

So much of this is incredibly subjective.

We own a nearly $2M home outright. Our cars are old, but nice, and bought with cash. We have rental properties. I thrift or ebay most of our clothes and shoes. I grocery shop at Costco and Grocery Outlet. DH is a master DIY-er. We give a lot to causes we care about.

We have lots of contrasts in our lives. For example, we wanted an RV. We did tons of research, went to an RV show, chose the make and model we wanted, and waited five years to buy it used with cash. It's fancy. It has a diesel engine, and when we travel, I don't care how much we spend on fuel (or DEF).

IMO, what is really a luxury is knowing we can pretty much afford anything life throws at us, and just about anything we decide is a must-have. Best of all, so many "problems" just evaporate when the money pot is full. It's crazy!

On re-reading this, I realized I missed something obvious. The word I missed was "income". Haha, income! Neither DH or I ever made more than $100k/annum from an employer in our careers. I FIRED right after we got hitched, so I'm not even suggesting we had two incomes. Mind you, I was pretty much FI when we got married, but our income has never been a huge number. We made our goals by saving, investing, doing occasional lucrative side gigs (house flipping) and DIY-ing almost everything.

Conclusion: I am completely unqualified to answer this question.

lol yes if talking income - especially a FIRE income - then I might be able to upgrade to something a bit more luxurious occasionally. But like @GuitarStv I could buy a couple of luxurious limbs (or Lambos stupid spell check) or at least a couple of Ferraris or a Mcclaren with some of my savings and have gas money to spare. Personally I thought it was a wrd and ambiguous question and wouldn't have answered it.

[sonofsven]

I agree it's weird framing.
Substitute "luxury goods" with " max all available retirement accounts", then we could answer more precisely.

[spartana]

I agree it's weird framing.
Substitute "luxury goods" with " max all available retirement accounts", then we could answer more precisely.

Yes it seems to ask "are you rich?" rather then do you have extra money to spend how you please be that to buy something or to invest.  I like @partgypsy wording for that question since luxury is in the rye of the beholder.

[Metalcat]

I agree it's weird framing.
Substitute "luxury goods" with " max all available retirement accounts", then we could answer more precisely.

It doesn't say luxury goods though, the OP says expensive goods.

Plenty of very reasonable purchases are expensive. I mentioned dental care and vet bills above, but also consider major home items when they need to be repaired.

In the past 5 years I've replaced a heat pump, and electrical panel, a fridge, 2 toilets, 2 home office setups plus laptops for remote work, etc, etc.

Probably the biggest expensive item I recently spent on was my latest degree. I've been HYPER aware for the past few years that I can easily afford tuition when my classmates cannot. They have absolute meltdowns because tuition was raised substantially a few times in the past 2 years, and I honestly barely notice.

A lot of not terribly luxurious things are expensive, and being able to afford them is a wildly different life experience than the average.

[MayDay]

I read the question and didn't think anything of it.  It's a good way to get around everyone thinking they are middle class maybe! Haha.

I would definitely say I can afford expensive goods. Doesn't mean I buy them but I definitely could if I wanted too. Yall are overthinking.

[Dicey]

I read the question and didn't think anything of it.  It's a good way to get around everyone thinking they are middle class maybe! Haha.

I would definitely say I can afford expensive goods. Doesn't mean I buy them but I definitely could if I wanted too. Yall are overthinking.

It's what we do.

[Metalcat]

I read the question and didn't think anything of it.  It's a good way to get around everyone thinking they are middle class maybe! Haha.

I would definitely say I can afford expensive goods. Doesn't mean I buy them but I definitely could if I wanted too. Yall are overthinking.

It's what we do.

We would have, like, 5 posts a day if we didn't do this.

[sonofsven]

I agree it's weird framing.
Substitute "luxury goods" with " max all available retirement accounts", then we could answer more precisely.

It doesn't say luxury goods though, the OP says expensive goods.

Plenty of very reasonable purchases are expensive. I mentioned dental care and vet bills above, but also consider major home items when they need to be repaired.

In the past 5 years I've replaced a heat pump, and electrical panel, a fridge, 2 toilets, 2 home office setups plus laptops for remote work, etc, etc.

Probably the biggest expensive item I recently spent on was my latest degree. I've been HYPER aware for the past few years that I can easily afford tuition when my classmates cannot. They have absolute meltdowns because tuition was raised substantially a few times in the past 2 years, and I honestly barely notice.

A lot of not terribly luxurious things are expensive, and being able to afford them is a wildly different life experience than the average.

Argghh, not sure how I mixed up luxury and expensive, but it's not the first time lately I've totally misread something and had something else stick in my brain. I think I'm losing my brain cells.
It is interesting how subtle changes in language steer us.
Like your new roof example, is it expensive, or is it a large expense, and what is the difference?
To me, expensive infers something that is not worth it, as in "too expensive", while large expense feels like something that is planned for, or at least thought about. That is just a personal opinion, but I would quibble that a toilet is expensive as you can get a brand new one for less than $200!
I think the questioner is really asking the age old qustion: can you pay for unexpected expensive items?

[Metalcat]

I agree it's weird framing.
Substitute "luxury goods" with " max all available retirement accounts", then we could answer more precisely.

It doesn't say luxury goods though, the OP says expensive goods.

Plenty of very reasonable purchases are expensive. I mentioned dental care and vet bills above, but also consider major home items when they need to be repaired.

In the past 5 years I've replaced a heat pump, and electrical panel, a fridge, 2 toilets, 2 home office setups plus laptops for remote work, etc, etc.

Probably the biggest expensive item I recently spent on was my latest degree. I've been HYPER aware for the past few years that I can easily afford tuition when my classmates cannot. They have absolute meltdowns because tuition was raised substantially a few times in the past 2 years, and I honestly barely notice.

A lot of not terribly luxurious things are expensive, and being able to afford them is a wildly different life experience than the average.

Argghh, not sure how I mixed up luxury and expensive, but it's not the first time lately I've totally misread something and had something else stick in my brain. I think I'm losing my brain cells.
It is interesting how subtle changes in language steer us.
Like your new roof example, is it expensive, or is it a large expense, and what is the difference?
To me, expensive infers something that is not worth it, as in "too expensive", while large expense feels like something that is planned for, or at least thought about. That is just a personal opinion, but I would quibble that a toilet is expensive as you can get a brand new one for less than $200!
I think the questioner is really asking the age old qustion: can you pay for unexpected expensive items?

Where *you* live a brand new toilet is less than $200, where I live it's quite a bit more and because I'm disabled, I need to have someone install it for me. So no, I did not consider it inexpensive when I had to replace my toilet.

[Zikoris]

I would answer "more than enough" because we live extremely comfortably and easily save about $5000 every month. We buy everything we want and travel extensively. I'd feel extremely silly answering any other way when I literally went to Europe and Morocco a few months ago and leave for a cruise in a few weeks, and this in not remotely an unusual travel year.

[Samuel]

Everyone is going to define expensive goods differently, to make the question almost useless.

I think the real value in the question is in following trends over time, not the specific numbers returned from one survey. If you ask the same question (in the exact same wording) repeatedly the varying individual definitions of "expensive" average out and you get a picture of how peoples' general perception of their financial well being is changing over time.

As people tend to be much more sensitive to relative changes rather than absolute changes this is probably useful information for people in politics looking to understand/target voters.