Author Topic: Can luxury brands ever be compatible with mustachianism?  (Read 5999 times)

Bertram

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Can luxury brands ever be compatible with mustachianism?
« on: November 06, 2015, 04:39:37 AM »
Now, one key aspects mustachianism/FIRE oriented lifestyles is to spend on what makes you happy AND being very self-reflective of what we want to spend money on and whether it makes us "really" happy. In that sense what may be wasteful to one person may indeed be a central part of another person's life.

In that way I think a lot of hobbies and interests are compatible. The one exception I would make is luxury brands. I am of the opinion that as long as you have a soft spot for luxury brands, you have not understood a key aspect of mustachianism. You may have some superficial understanding of it, and you may be mimicking some of the activities, but you are still a beginner indulging in mistakes.

I am not arguing against brands in general, and not about brands that offer a somewhat better product at a somewhat higher price. But specifically luxury brands. It's where I would draw the line and never recommend to "go for it, if it makes you happy", even if the financial impact to the FIRE plans are not that grave. It's not just about making the numbers work, it's also about being self-conscious what you spend your time and money on, and luxury brands are all about exploiting human decision making by tapping into base desires in order to overcharge.

I guess for some people this will seem very obvious, and I don't intend to preach to the choir. So I am really not interested in agreements to my opinion, but much more interested to hear the arguments of the other side. And I know there are people like that participating here, see for example the other thread about buying an Aston Martin DB9 (where some people answered with "if it makes you happy and fits in your budget, go for it").

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Can luxury brands ever be compatible with mustachianism?
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2015, 05:16:13 AM »
If the luxury product has some tangible benefits (longer lifespan, etc) over the regular product, it might not be so bad.

If however it's just a brandname that's expensive because it's been marketed well and people want it because it's also used by a celebrity, then sorry, it's not compatible :)

The mustachian way to look at things is that often even the regular product is luxurious, the fancy brandname is slightly more luxurious at many multiples of the price.

KarefulKactus15

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Re: Can luxury brands ever be compatible with mustachianism?
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2015, 08:21:57 AM »
Pretty much you nailed it.

25% higher price for 25% better quality - Good luxury

500% higher price for 50% better quality?  Wasteful? 

I don't know that you will get any contradicting opinions on this forum lol

honeybbq

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Re: Can luxury brands ever be compatible with mustachianism?
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2015, 09:26:10 AM »
I guess in my mind the answer is "no" because luxury is not synonymous with quality.

However, I may buy the most expensive ______ because it is the best quality or provides the best fit, or another aspect.

The one example that comes to mind is hiking boots - when I was younger and spent many weeks backpacking at a time I would buy the nicest and most comfortable boots I could find and price was irrelevant.  I think I ended up buying some Merrells which are actually mid range but the price was not a consideration when I was trying them on.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Can luxury brands ever be compatible with mustachianism?
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2015, 09:35:47 AM »
I buy the traditional-looking lines of "mass affluent" clothes brands (Hilfiger, Ralph Lauren, etc.). They last a bloody long time, can be worn in virtually every social setting, and never go out of style.

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runningthroughFIRE

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Re: Can luxury brands ever be compatible with mustachianism?
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2015, 09:36:09 AM »
I can think of opting for the luxury good making sense in certain contexts.  Say you work in a high profile industry where things like the car you drive, clothes you wear, etc. are all highly visible.  If owning the luxury version  of something makes a difference in the quality or quantity of clients you can bring into the company, or the earnings potential it affords you, then doing so makes sense.  I've seen people get ostracized socially for not opting for any luxury goods, so one or two splurges to avoid this seems reasonable as long as the benefits outweigh any impact to your financial goals.  Personally, I'd give anyone who refuses to interact with me on the basis of my posessions the one-finger salute, but some are unwilling to do that.

I think of mustachianism as using money to maximize my happiness through conscious choices.  For most of us, this means learning to be happy with less so that we can eventually free ourselves from the restrictions life puts on us, namely having to work.  While I might not understand it, if someone is genuinely happier with the luxury item, then more power to them.  If they constantly bitch about not having enough money, though, all sympathy tossed in the bonfire so I can enjoy some roasted smores to go along with a tall glass of their delicious tears.

2ndTimer

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Re: Can luxury brands ever be compatible with mustachianism?
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2015, 09:48:17 AM »
As someone who is currently hesitating between a $1500 and a $8000 digital piano I will address this.  The $8000 piano is not five times as good as the $1500 piano.  I would say it is about 1.66 times as good.  Any piano counts as a luxury good in my mind including the one I am currently playing which I got free from my BIL.  Am I willing to pay five times the price for a 1.66 improvement?  I haven't decided yet.

No Name Guy

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Re: Can luxury brands ever be compatible with mustachianism?
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2015, 10:59:27 AM »
Luxury for the sake of a luxury brand =fool IMO.  Think any of the stupidly over priced purses.

High cost for superior performance and buy it for life quality?  Quite probably the best value.  Example:  Makita sliding  compound mitre saw from 18 years ago.  Perfect cuts every time.  It will still be going strong 30 years from now.

Another example:  Top of the line Feathered Friends sleeping bag.  900 fill down combined with top quality fabrics and workmanship means I will never need another sleeping bag.....ever (and the GF and I backpack quite a bit). Is this a "luxury" brand?  In the realm of backpacking / mountaineering it is....but its also a top quality product that is priced comparable  with its production cost.

lukebuz

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Re: Can luxury brands ever be compatible with mustachianism?
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2015, 11:02:13 AM »
As someone who is currently hesitating between a $1500 and a $8000 digital piano I will address this.  The $8000 piano is not five times as good as the $1500 piano.  I would say it is about 1.66 times as good.  Any piano counts as a luxury good in my mind including the one I am currently playing which I got free from my BIL.  Am I willing to pay five times the price for a 1.66 improvement?  I haven't decided yet.

How many more months of work will you have to suffer through to pay for that 66% improvement?  Would you work another 3 months for it? 

cube.37

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Re: Can luxury brands ever be compatible with mustachianism?
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2015, 11:18:22 AM »
It probably also depends on the bank account of the individual..

For example, for someone living on minimum wage, better tasting grass-fed beef for $1.50/lb versus $.75/lb would be a luxury (numbers pulled out of my ass). However, for someone making $100,000/yr might think it's worth it. Is it 100% better? I'd say no. Not even close. They both fill you, both have protein, both serve the purpose of giving you calories to survive the day. But sometimes, the 200% price is still worth the 125% (my comparison rating) value. Heck, I make less than $100k but I splurge on the luxury good of high-quality food just cus I feel like it and it won't break the bank.

For someone who is making $1million/yr, you could probably carry over the same logic. A prada bag might cost 200% of what a marc jacobs bag costs. Is the prada bag 200% better than the marc jacobs bag? No. They both hold stuff..It might have 1% better quality leather. Maybe more. Maybe it feels slight better on the shoulder. Or it just looks better in my eyes. The 200% price probably isn't worth it for the 101% quality for most people. But for someone making a boatload of money, it might be worth it - the same way a middle-class earner might think it's worth it to purchase 200% price beef for 125% quality.

(for the sake of argument, lets say the individual in this case isn't buying grass-fed for any reason other than taste)

TheAnonOne

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Re: Can luxury brands ever be compatible with mustachianism?
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2015, 11:45:07 AM »
Pretty much you nailed it.

25% higher price for 25% better quality - Good luxury

500% higher price for 50% better quality?  Wasteful? 

I don't know that you will get any contradicting opinions on this forum lol

Agreed!

Generally, I would look at the luxury purse world as the wasteful side, over 1k for a bag.

However, with other things like TVs or Cars (or anything that actually has a mechanical or electronic use) quality of good brands can open up the discussion and consideration at least.


ketchup

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Re: Can luxury brands ever be compatible with mustachianism?
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2015, 01:03:41 PM »
I chose a $13 garden hose nozzle over a $7 one the other day.  It will probably last longer, and be easier to use (we bathe our dogs with it).

I have an ice scraper for my car that I bought three years ago for $1.99.  I'm sure I could find one with a Ferrari logo on it for $499.99, but that would be stupid.

Enough is as good as a feast.

Runrooster

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Re: Can luxury brands ever be compatible with mustachianism?
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2015, 01:51:21 PM »
As someone who is currently hesitating between a $1500 and a $8000 digital piano I will address this.  The $8000 piano is not five times as good as the $1500 piano.  I would say it is about 1.66 times as good.  Any piano counts as a luxury good in my mind including the one I am currently playing which I got free from my BIL.  Am I willing to pay five times the price for a 1.66 improvement?  I haven't decided yet.

I think this is perfect example, because it scales down as well: you can probably get a $100 digital keyboard that's 75% as good.  I think Costco sold one at $250 or so and all the families bought one, so now the kids who never latched on are getting rid of it.  I got one of these for free (the family upgraded).  Ask a musician whether it's worth it to pay $50k for a strad (which actually costs a lot more).  It depends how much you use it, how good you are, and what benefit you will reap.  At $1500 I'd guess you could be getting a very nice non digital piano on the used market, including tuning and delivery.

In another example, we could all drop our food costs to $50 month by eating beans all the time, sprouted or not.  Besides monotony, I get some different protein and vitamins by eating meat and fish.  OP may want to spend some time on Jacob fisker's blog to see how luxurious mustachianism can be in comparison.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2015, 05:46:56 PM by Runrooster »

Tyson

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Re: Can luxury brands ever be compatible with mustachianism?
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2015, 02:01:03 PM »
I think that you should do what MMM does - would you still buy it if it cost $0.  Which means it costs $0 for everyone, which means that the brand no longer conveys status or clout.  If that were the case, would you still want to own that particular one?

I like to buy quality.  Sometimes that's a luxury brand, mostly it's not. 

kite

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Re: Can luxury brands ever be compatible with mustachianism?
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2015, 04:31:36 PM »
I think it depends on the item. 

I've noticed with eating, that if the food is properly seasoned, I'm sated with very little.  When it's lacking in salt, I tend to miss the internal cue that I've had enough, and want more of what I don't fully enjoy.  This is what comes to mind when I think of luxury goods.  Once I had a cashmere sweater, I never wanted any other.  Not only could I pare down all other sweaters in my closet, I wouldn't shop again for any because the ONE I had is so perfect. When it's time to replace, I'll replace it.   
Because it's 'luxury item' I have to take excellent care of it, I highly value it which furthers my enjoyment of it. Similar thing happened with my shoes and with sheets.  I happened upon something so wonderful it obliterated everything else for me.  The aesthetic value is for me alone,  you can't tell by looking that there is anything special about my shoes or sweater.  A low-end sweater might look just as good.  My bedsheets don't impress anyone.  There was a moment when having exactly the right thing eliminated desire for a host of other things.  This reining in of wants is what makes me mustachian. 

That the cashmere sweater was free and the high-end shoes are never worn thrift store finds is a bonus.  The sheets I did splurge on, but for our custom size bed, it was somewhat necessary. 

In the example of the Aston Martin, if buying it only fuels other expectations, it's a trap.  But if the highly prized thing satisfies, leaving you no interest in all other luxuries, it's a different story.

MrsPete

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Re: Can luxury brands ever be compatible with mustachianism?
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2015, 04:48:06 PM »
I agree with Kite:  I don't think it's possible to form a truthful generalization on this topic:

- Some luxury brands bring nothing to the table beyond status.
- Other luxury brands are better made, function more efficiently, or are better in some other way.
- Regardless of the quality, you have to consider your own ability to pay. 
- Regardless of quality, you have to consider how often you're going to use the item.
- And specific determining factors may pop up in specific circumstances.

KarefulKactus15

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Re: Can luxury brands ever be compatible with mustachianism?
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2015, 06:26:17 AM »
Ive been buying a lot of stuff lately with a "lifetime warranty"   Usually they cost quite a bit more, but feel so sturdy.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Can luxury brands ever be compatible with mustachianism?
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2015, 02:27:25 PM »
I'm a clothes person. I am interested in clothes (historical and fashionable) and so 'little' things like bad pattern matching or crappy overlocking bother me in the same way that a flat piano would bother a music person. I recognise the aesthetic of many luxury brands (I can tell a Chanel from a Dior) even without branding. This does not mean I would spend £3000 on a dress. If everything cost £0 I would certainly have a wardrobe worth enough to retire on but it doesn't. Big luxury clothing brands are often a con, but the high end of mid-range and the low end of high-range are definitely worth it if you can tell the difference between fabrics and manufacturing techniques and if you enjoy aesthetics.

Syonyk

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Re: Can luxury brands ever be compatible with mustachianism?
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2015, 03:21:22 PM »
What are you defining a "luxury brand" as?  What's the line between a normal higher quality brand and a luxury brand?

Three different people will probably have 4 different opinions about what consists of a luxury brand in a particular field.

I'm sure people would consider some of my computers to be "luxury."  I think I've explicitly heard that about Apple hardware.  That's fine.  I make quite a bit of money off my computers, and Apple hardware works well for what I need.  I absolutely could buy a $50 laptop off Craigslist, use Linux on it, and do some of what I need, but it'd be radically slower than my current setup.

I've got a pretty fancy desktop as well.  I do a lot of development on it.  Is it "luxury" compared to the basement definition of "computer" I could get?  Sure, by someone's standards.  I'm quite happy with it.

But, most of this fits into the tool category for me.  And if I'm making money with it, I don't want to be fighting with it.  I'm long past the time in my life when spending a weekend messing with computers is fun - I just want the least exciting computer I can find that does what I need (which frequently involves virtual machines, so I have a lot of RAM as well).

As far as cars go?  I absolutely want a Jag at some point.  Just, an old one. :)

Bertram

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Re: Can luxury brands ever be compatible with mustachianism?
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2015, 01:02:45 PM »
What are you defining a "luxury brand" as?  What's the line between a normal higher quality brand and a luxury brand?

Three different people will probably have 4 different opinions about what consists of a luxury brand in a particular field.

I've been thinking a lot about the replies and basically it really does come down to this. From my gut I was arguing that everybody has the same idea about what a luxury brand is, but the more I think about it and try to find a good definition the more difficult it becomes.

If you look at Forbes they have separate lists for most valuable brands (things like Apple, Coca Cola, Microsoft etc.) and most valuable luxury brands (Ralph Lauren, Prada, Burberry, Tiffany, Cartier, Hermes, Guccis, Louis Vuitton). But I am indeed having difficulty in coming up with a general definition. I think aspects like (artificial) scarcity, high prices, mich higher than usual margins for the type of product and so on play a big role.