Handling different views between spouses on downshifting vs. plowing ahead FT

[Nick_Miller]

Anyone else in this position?

1) My wife's preferred plan for the next 5-7 years: Both of us keep working FT until we hit $1M in investments, a paid-for-house, and at least $100K cash, so let's say $1.4M. Then we retire together. We either live off a 5% annual draw (we'd be in early/mid 50s so SS would be not far off), or a 4% draw if I can make $10K+ net from my writing/year. This would cause me to work at my job for a few years longer than I want (assuming our office stays in business for this long). EDITED TO ADD: My wife does NOT want to downshift herself. She has little/no interest in taking a part-time job or developing a small business to earn some income during a downshift period. She wants to work FT at her job until she feels we have enough set aside, BOOM...RETIRE. No middle ground.

2) My preferred plan for the next 5-7 years: Hit about $600K in investments (currently at $450K) and $100K cash by 2023. At that point, she keeps working FT and I "downshift" to writing from home FT. Currently, I'm earning only about $7500 net/year writing 10-15 hours/week, but I have a new book coming out in early 2022, and I strongly believe I could build momentum and  earn higher profits if I had 40-50 hours per week to focus on this. In addition, I'd take on more of the household stuff (taking care of our dog during the day, running laundry during the way, doing the grocery shopping, doing most of the kiddo pickups/dropoffs) to make her life easier on the weekends. However, this would likely cause her to work at her job a few years longer than she wants.

It seems like someone might be resentful either way, and I'm struggling to see how to make either scenario a win/win.

When spouses have different preferences for "finishing the race," how do you resolve things? Honestly, she is more risk adverse, and I'm willing to take more risks, so that's a central issue. If you told me, "Nick, in 2023 you'll have $600K in investments that should grow to $1.2M in 10 years (assuming 7% rate) if you just leave them alone and don't add a single penny to them," I'd be good with that.

But I fear the resentment. So much. And the pressure to sell my books. Right now, my publishing profits are just 'extra' money that we toss toward investments. But if my wife said, "Nick, you really have to net $40K/year in book sales to make me support this venture," I fear the pressure might drain all of the fun out of writing stories. I mean, no one can guarantee a certain number of sales. I'm already unusual in making a (modest) profit. Most writers lose money or, at best, net a tiny profit.

Maybe we can strive for a middle ground?

Anyone else had a situation where you and your spouse's retirement timelines really seemed to diverge, perhaps because of different approaches to risk and/or a passion or lack of passion for their current job or alternative jobs? How did you handle it?

[merula]

I'm the working spouse with a SAHD husband. I wouldn't say our retirement timelines diverge so much as our expectations around household work and childcare post-retirement differ. Right now, I feel like I do more "support the family" work in total, between my job, childcare and housework, so I feel like my reward in retirement should be to do less overall "support the family" work. That is, if right now I spend 60 hours a week on work/kids/chores, and he spends 35 hours on kids/chores, then post-retirement I should maybe spend 20 hours/week on kids/chores while he spends 30. I'd take on a little more but not to a level where it's 50/50. His ideal would be more 50/50. This is complicated by healthcare/disability issues on his part, and we don't have a good solution to be honest.

I may be projecting from my own situation, but it kinda sounds like your wife doesn't want to be in the position of being the sole earner and working while you're having all the fun. (Not saying that's what you're planning on doing, just how it might appear to her.) And it is legitimately more stressful to be the sole earner than it is to have two incomes.

Do you think it'd work to talk more specifically about the work you'd be planning to take on, and how you see that working? That is, if you're both working outside the home 40 hours per week, and kids/dog/chores take up another 40 hours, that's like 120 hours a week of "supporting the family" work. How would you see that split working if you were at home? Do you want to treat writing like your full-time job, just with more flexibility, so that maybe instead of splitting the kids/dog/chores stuff evenly, it's more like you take 25 while she takes 15? Or were you thinking that you'd take over almost all of it, so the split is more 35/5? What specific things would you be committing to take over, and how would that change things for her? (Maybe something more concrete than "life is easier on the weekends"?)

It's probably also worth talking through how you think about your writing time in terms of that split. It's tough as a monetized hobby; it's not entirely free time, but then it's also not entirely "supporting the family" work. It could get there, for sure, but you (quite reasonably) don't want that pressure hanging over your head.

I don't think anyone (including you) can come up with a solution that will immediately convince your wife, but you've got a few years to be able to really talk this out and find a compromise.

[Aelias]

Yup - in the same place. I'm less risk averse, he's more risk averse.  We are currently on the "stick it out" plan.  A few things to consider:

1) Assuming your marriage is otherwise in a good place, remember that the end goal is to get both of you to and through retirement with the marriage intact.  Divorce will be far more disruptive to your goals than deferring to your partner.  If a course of action will drive you apart, then you need a different solution.

2) Part of the reason I was willing to defer to my more risk averse husband is that I don't think his risk aversion is something he can control or change, so pulling the plug early was going lead to many years of discomfort for him.  While sticking it out would leave me somewhat dissatisfied for a few more years, but 5-7 years is just a small piece in what we hope to be a 25 year+ retirement.  If we retire earlier, and it turns out I was wrong, he will live in constant fear that something is going to go wrong and we will have to make significant lifestyle changes or possibly go back to work.  If we retire later, and it turns out he was wrong, maybe one of us dies early but more likely  -- wheeeee extra money!   In other words, the potential downside of quitting early seemed much greater than the potential downside of sticking it out.

3) BUT this only works because I'm still about 80% satisfied in my position, and I actively work on trying to maximize my satisfaction in the current situation.  If you're absolutely miserable and burned out on your current job, then grinding it out for 5-7 years is just not going happen.  It will destroy you physically and mentally and will stress the marriage.  So, if you land on "stick it out", actively look for ways to carve out additional time for writing and other things that bring joy and satisfaction now, so the next 5-7 years don't feel like a thankless slog.  Or make changes in your current job to make it more enjoyable. Or start looking for a better job.

4) Finally, the choice to stick it out or call it quits is not just one decision or one conversation, it's a decision you'll keep making and revisiting as your needs, wants, and circumstances change.  Writing goes really well? Portfolio gets an unexpected increases?  Maybe move up the date.  Unexpected health issues, job loss or other issues pop up?  Maybe stick it out longer, get another job, or make other changes.  It was helpful to both of us to understand that no decision is final and, if things get bad, we can and should reopen the conversation because (see Point 1) -- the end goal is to get both of us to and through retirement with the marriage intact.

[Anon-E-Mouze]

My husband and I have somewhat diverging views on when to retire (especially about when I, as the primary and currently sole breadwinner) should retire. Those differences have had to do with factors such as:

1) What our pre-retired and retired lives would be like in terms of what we spend / would spend money on (e.g. house size and location, travel, food and wine, clothes and spendy habits). For example, I could live in a smaller house outside a major city, as long as we lived in a town where our house was within walking distance to certain shops and activities. (I can't see well enough to drive so don't want to depend on a car for everything.) He wants to stay in our big house in a big city.

2) Our confidence level in each other regarding our spending habits. He is fundamentally more frugal than I am, but I have been getting better in the past few years.

3) I've had a very rewarding career in terms of $ and also in terms of personal fulfillment. His career has delivered much less of that.

4) I'm a pessimist, so I want to retire earlier because I'm worried about risks like illness etc. He's an optimist and much less worried about those things.

We have, over the past few years, come closer in terms of our views about a timeline for retirement. Part of that has been me accepting his views about what our expected spending level should be to provide the life he wants, and then being able to demonstrate through spreadsheets etc that we'll be able to achieve those goals. And part of it has come from me demonstrating an ability and consistency in terms of reining in my spending habits.

As far as the OP's situation is concerned, I'd suggest the following:

1. There's a great book called Difficult Conversations: How to Discuss What Matters Most. I highly recommend that you read it and put the practices into action. I also recommend that you both read Work Optional: Retire Early the Non-Pennypinching Way because it has questionnaires and checklists you can work through together to get a better understanding of each other's perspectives and steps you can take to get better prepared to shift to a work-optional life.

2. After listening to her (following the practices you learned from Step 1), look seriously at your own habits, assumptions and goals and assess whether the "package" you're presenting her is one that she can be confident in. For example, are you talking about a planned retirement income of X, but you personally have spending habits that aren't in line with that plan? Are there are other areas where you take risks (especially unexpected risks) that might undermine her sense of confidence in you? Or vice-versa? Are you demonstrating an ability to take on work around your home and life that shows that you'll be an equal partner in your retired life?

3. I'd also recommend that you develop contingency plans, which include a realistic assessment of your re-employability, should your early retirement plan prove to have some holes in it. Do you have the kind of skills that lead to easy re-employment if necessary? What's your back-up plan, other than writing, if funds are needed?

4. Related to (3), are there any areas of your life that could lead to unexpectedly high expenses in the future? Your plan looks like relatively lean FIRE. Do you have family members (parents, children) who could need financial support in the future? Are there any major health risks that run in the family that could lead to really expensive care needs?

[nessness]

My initial thought is that your wife's plan sounds more "fair". It doesn't sound like your wife loves her job, so she'd probably like to have the opportunity to downshift too, but it seems that the only two options on the table are that you downshift or you guys both keep working until you are FIRE. So from that perspective, her position already is the "compromise" position.

But if you really think you have the potential to make a decent income as a writer, maybe you could propose that you guys reevaluate after you see how successful your book is?

[partgypsy]

Just read back what you wrote. Her plan makes it so you guys retire, together. Your plan is you downshifting first, making it so she has to work her job 2, 3 years longer than she intended. If I was your wife I would not agree to that either.  You have to make it a win-win for both people. The only thing I would suggest is doing a case study or something, to see what your numbers actually need to be, so you will both know when you can "pull the plug" (and hopefully be earlier than you think).

[CNM]

One thing that I didn't see mentioned in @Nick_Miller 's original post, but was discussed in his journal, was them *both* downshifting to PT work, or finding other employment that is less of a grind.  Did you all discuss that possibility?

[scantee]

Just read back what you wrote. Her plan makes it so you guys retire, together. Your plan is you downshifting first, making it so she has to work her job 2, 3 years longer than she intended. If I was your wife I would not agree to that either.  You have to make it a win-win for both people. The only thing I would suggest is doing a case study or something, to see what your numbers actually need to be, so you will both know when you can "pull the plug" (and hopefully be earlier than you think).

Yes to this. Your preferred option is good for you, not so much for her. Unless she absolutely loves her job and has no interest in retiring that option will not work.

Why not an intermediate approach of you both downshifting in three or four years? That gives you an extra year or two to save and allows you both to shift into coast mode at the same time. We’re I in you wife’s position this would be the most appealing and fair compromise to me. 

[boarder42]

there are other options that involve cutting costs or changing the allocation of your assets that could make all of this happen in 5-7 years.

I do not think its fair for one person to quit and the other keep working if both are working towards the same goal and both would like to leave their jobs. Unless the career shift for someone earlier did not affect the FIRE plans of everyone.

[Nick_Miller]

Hey all! Thanks for the responses!

One thing I should have mentioned in the OP (and which I will insert in the OP in a minute), is that my wife does NOT want to downshift herself. She has little/no interest in taking a part-time job or developing a small business to earn some income during a downshift period. She wants to work FT at her job until she feels we have enough set aside, BOOM...RETIRE. No middle ground.

I'm just really frustrated. It's easy(ish) to go from one job to another; it's quite another thing to work one job FT while trying to slowly build your dream job for yourself on the side over the course of years...and years...and years in whatever "spare" time your schedule affords you.

But, as I read earlier, the plan really IS to both get to retirement and stay married in the process. I don't want her to resent me, and I don't want to have an ulcer if my books don't sell as well as I hope they will. 

[wageslave23]

It sounds like you both agree 1.4 million is a good target amount.  She should keep working the 5-7 yrs as planned.  Then if you want to downshift in two years, it's up to you to make up the difference in shortfall.  If you can bring in that money from your writing then great, if you end up having to work for 10-15 yrs so be it. That way you both agree on where you need to get to. She's takes the shorter route, you take the longer (maybe more enjoyable) route.  Both pull their fair share.

Thats what my wife and I are doing.  It's takes a lot of stress off.  I'm going to work full-time until the point that had we both been working full time, we could both retire.  She wants to work part time, so she will keep working a few extra years until we reach the point we would have gotten to if both had been working full time.

[Nick_Miller]

I do think at $1.4M my wife would sleep well if we could take out 4-5% per year in our early 50s, and if we had approximately two years of full expenses ($100K) in cash to rely on in case of a really bad market year. Me potentially netting even just $10K-$15 in writing income would give us a lot of buffer.

Right now, much of our budget goes toward investing, food, and travel. Eliminating the first one, and reducing the later two, would reduce most of our big budget items. I need to run some hard calculations on anticipated yearly spend let's say from age 52-62, assuming a paid-off home and no investments being made, factoring in one nice trip a year and one smaller trip a year.

[FIRE Artist]

I think you should look at it from a different angle,  you say that your current earnings from writing go into investments, I would suggest that you segregate and use that money to fund early freedom for yourself, along with any additional extra sacrifices you may personally want to make, to fund an early work exit.  Sure, your investments may coast to 1.2M in 10 years, but somehow the bills need to get paid in the interim, and that burden should not be only on one person if there are two able bodied adults in the household and no pre school children to care for.  So, based on the example you gave of 40K/year of book sales, you could flip that and say once your part time book sales savings are equivalent to that, you get to stop working one year earlier than the plan, save 80K gives you two years earlier etc. 

On the housework front, I assume you are Gen X, this is important because as a Gen X woman, I know all too well that Gen X men grossly overestimate their contribution to the emotional and household labor.  You say that you would take care of all that stuff as well as work 40-50hrs/week on your writing hobby (since you don't want to commit to earning a minimum income from it, it is a hobby, definitely not a job)- I don't know you, but know enough about my generation to call BS on that, and if your wife is Gen X, I certainly don't fault her for not agreeing to this deal either.  Just the fact that you say you would do this to "make her life easier on the weekends", tells me you, like most Gen X men, consider it to be her job to manage by default. 

[nessness]

The fact that your wife isn't interested in downshifting is good information to have, but I'm not sure it changes my response.

Try rephrasing the problem to "it feels unfair that I can't put the financial burden on my spouse while I pursue my dream job." Does that still seem like a reasonable position to take?

[CodingHare]

Hey all! Thanks for the responses!

One thing I should have mentioned in the OP (and which I will insert in the OP in a minute), is that my wife does NOT want to downshift herself. She has little/no interest in taking a part-time job or developing a small business to earn some income during a downshift period. She wants to work FT at her job until she feels we have enough set aside, BOOM...RETIRE. No middle ground.

I'm just really frustrated. It's easy(ish) to go from one job to another; it's quite another thing to work one job FT while trying to slowly build your dream job for yourself on the side over the course of years...and years...and years in whatever "spare" time your schedule affords you.

But, as I read earlier, the plan really IS to both get to retirement and stay married in the process. I don't want her to resent me, and I don't want to have an ulcer if my books don't sell as well as I hope they will. 

It sounds like the core issue for you is you want to either go full time writing or at least spend the same time writing without the pressure of a FT job distracting you.  In effect, does it feel like you are working a FT and a part time job now?  Because if that is the case, I can sort of see why both of you working FT until retire might feel unfair to you.  But it's a bit murky because your writing isn't a steady income yet, right?  So I can definitely see your wife resenting being asked to work longer to cover you essentially spending your time on a hobby.

[Nick_Miller]

I think you should look at it from a different angle,  you say that your current earnings from writing go into investments, I would suggest that you segregate and use that money to fund early freedom for yourself, along with any additional extra sacrifices you may personally want to make, to fund an early work exit.  Sure, your investments may coast to 1.2M in 10 years, but somehow the bills need to get paid in the interim, and that burden should not be only on one person if there are two able bodied adults in the household and no pre school children to care for.  So, based on the example you gave of 40K/year of book sales, you could flip that and say once your part time book sales savings are equivalent to that, you get to stop working one year earlier than the plan, save 80K gives you two years earlier etc. 

On the housework front, I assume you are Gen X, this is important because as a Gen X woman, I know all too well that Gen X men grossly overestimate their contribution to the emotional and household labor.  You say that you would take care of all that stuff as well as work 40-50hrs/week on your writing hobby (since you don't want to commit to earning a minimum income from it, it is a hobby, definitely not a job)- I don't know you, but know enough about my generation to call BS on that, and if your wife is Gen X, I certainly don't fault her for not agreeing to this deal either.  Just the fact that you say you would do this to "make her life easier on the weekends", tells me you, like most Gen X men, consider it to be her job to manage by default.

Hmmm...I think your assessment is a bit harsh, but I will do my best to look at things objectively, which is tough to do when you're in the trenches.

Her:
50% of cooking/groceries
90% of appointment-making
25% of helping kiddos with homework/projects
90% of buying stuff for house and kiddos
50% of laundry
50% of meal planning/grocery-getting
10% of yard stuff (tending to small garden)
60% of financial stuff (handling day-to-day checkbook)
10% of dog stuff
50% of travel planning

Me:
50% of cooking/groceries
10% of appointment-making
75% of helping kiddos with homework/projects
10% of buying stuff for house and kiddos
50% of laundry
50% of meal planning/grocery-getting
90% of yard stuff (tending to small garden)
40% of financial stuff (handling investments, insurance, planning, spreadsheets)
90% of dog stuff
50% of travel planning

Okay, I spent too much time on that, but yes if I was working from home, I'd take more of the groceries, laundry, and appointment-making off her plate. I honestly think she likes our split of tasks. It has really never been a point of contention.

Anyways, your idea of me "buying" some freedom is a very appealing one, and I appreciate that idea. Although it would be hard to let $40K accumulate in a bank account for years, the overall approach is still interesting, and it makes sense.

[Nick_Miller]

Hey all! Thanks for the responses!

One thing I should have mentioned in the OP (and which I will insert in the OP in a minute), is that my wife does NOT want to downshift herself. She has little/no interest in taking a part-time job or developing a small business to earn some income during a downshift period. She wants to work FT at her job until she feels we have enough set aside, BOOM...RETIRE. No middle ground.

I'm just really frustrated. It's easy(ish) to go from one job to another; it's quite another thing to work one job FT while trying to slowly build your dream job for yourself on the side over the course of years...and years...and years in whatever "spare" time your schedule affords you.

But, as I read earlier, the plan really IS to both get to retirement and stay married in the process. I don't want her to resent me, and I don't want to have an ulcer if my books don't sell as well as I hope they will. 

In effect, does it feel like you are working a FT and a part time job now?

Yes. 100% yes.

People who know a little about the publishing business know that you don't hit it big with one story. You have to write and release a LOT to even have a shot at decent money. Mine are doing better than most, but still I can't assume that continues. I already anticipate that my sales for Book 3 in my series will be weaker because I've lost momentum, whereas other authors are cranking out books every couple of months. It's hard to keep readers interested when they have SO many other options that crank out so much more content.

The BIG indie author group these days is literally called 20Booksto50K. Yes, it means what it says. The plan is to be earning $50K/year after you've written and published 20 quality (not perfect, but quality) books.

I've been writing one every 1.5 years or so. You can do the math and see my issue.

That said, I have to accept that most of the people in groups like 20Booksto50K are: 1) SAHMs with school-age children, 2) Retired folks, 3) Childfree people.

I am none of these things! I don't have 6-hour windows of time everyday. I have, AT BEST, 10-15 hours a week, and that's usually early on Saturday and Sunday mornings while everyone sleeps, or maybe during a weekend afternoon if the rest of the family goes shopping or out to do a fun thing.

So yeah I am frustrated. None of this is my wife's fault. I've chosen my life and my situation, and it's a good one. But it's not super conducive to building up a small business. Sometimes I think about just shutting it down and stopping, thinking "Maybe I just need to let it go. The frustration isn't worth it." But then I get an email or a social media message from a reader who talks about how they enjoy my work, and it makes it really hard to give it up. And the thing is, I WANT to have something to "retire to." I want to write more books, it's something I could do into my 70s assuming AI doesn't just take over and write all the books by then. :)

[FIRE Artist]

Anyways, your idea of me "buying" some freedom is a very appealing one, and I appreciate that idea. Although it would be hard to let $40K accumulate in a bank account for years, the overall approach is still interesting, and it makes sense.

I didn't mean to imply that you let the money sit un-invested, rather have it segregated from the normal retirement income pool of money.  If you were running an actual business, you would likely not be lumping the profits into your household balance, rather you would be re-investing to grow your business.  Keeping your book earnings separate to invest in more time for yourself in the future to grow your book business seems reasonable. 

[Metalcat]

It's a matter of really talking through the values and motivations behind this.

No truly loving partner wants the other person to lose out just so that they can win. When there's a disagreement like this, it usually means that one or both partners think that the other person would agree with them it they just fully saw reason. But that's not the same as truly understanding someone's needs, values, and motivations.

Simply put, you don't understand each other's positions well enough to find alignment.

Dig deeper into the issue with a focus on truly, deeply understanding the other's position and with a purpose of both coming out of it with an outcome that feels great.

Resentment comes when you see an issue as unsolvable because you perceive a difference of perspectives as a difference of priorities.

It may look that way, but if your main priority is that you both be as healthy and happy as possible, then you are already aligned in terms of what matters, and what needs to be hammered out is the details of how to get there.

FWIW, my DH is much happier now that I'm retired 12 years before he is, because I've become a much better, more attentive, and more involved partner, and generally a happier and cooler person.

Zero resentment.

[Fire2025]

I'm in a partnership where my SO is FIRE'd and I'm still working, we're both fine with this no resentment, so add grains of salt to taste for this idea.  But...

How about a Coast FIRE hybrid, with you taking on all the risk?

She works the 5 - 7 years as planned
You work 2 more years and then shift to full time writing, and try to get into the 20/50k club.

At the original FIRE timeline your wife quits her job and she is done, done. At this point your writing either covers the family expenses, (Looks like your hoping for 56,000 - 70,000) or you get a PT job to make up the difference.

You let the stache coast until it hits 1.4M.  Then you're both done done and live happily ever FIRE'd after.

This way you're taking on all the downside risk, which is fair as you're the risk tolerant one.  She doesn't work any extra, but the writing doesn't carry the pressure, you do.  If the writing can't support the family at the original FIRE date, you assume responsibility for the risk that was taken.  You won't feel resentful that she's FIRE'd and your working PT, because that was the risk all along. 

But always take Malcat's advice first and foremost. 

[MaybeBabyMustache]

We're in a similar position. Both very high earners, but live in a VHCOL. I've been burned out/wanting a change for at least a decade. We've kept the discussion going, and I've personally moved the goal post (for myself) to FIRE quite a bit. We now have our house paid off. It required a ton of sacrifice, and extra years, but I know that it reduces the potential for friction, given we have such different perspectives.

In our case, we could afford for both of us to be FIREd, but 1) my husband doesn't (EVER) want to tap his retirement account. In his view, it's something you use to pay for medical expenses when you are 90, or you pass on to your kids. We each have 7 figures in our accounts, so there's plenty of money to do that, and FIRE.  2) He has no desire to stop working. I feel differently about my retirement account. ;-)

I basically saved significantly more than we could need, and paid off our biggest expense, so that we would both be comfortable with me FIREing. It will be sometime in 2022.

[boarder42]

are you looking at this improperly then?

Your side hustle will start to produce passive income if i understand your 20to50k statement.  So you're adding value beyond investments with your hobby you plan to continue after you FIRE - maybe you should make a 20to25k plan to show conservatively how this allows you to quit while your wife can still quit at the same time she was planning to.

[Anon-E-Mouze]

It's a matter of really talking through the values and motivations behind this.

No truly loving partner wants the other person to lose out just so that they can win. When there's a disagreement like this, it usually means that one or both partners think that the other person would agree with them it they just fully saw reason. But that's not the same as truly understanding someone's needs, values, and motivations.

Simply put, you don't understand each other's positions well enough to find alignment.

Dig deeper into the issue with a focus on truly, deeply understanding the other's position and with a purpose of both coming out of it with an outcome that feels great.

Resentment comes when you see an issue as unsolvable because you perceive a difference of perspectives as a difference of priorities.

It may look that way, but if your main priority is that you both be as healthy and happy as possible, then you are already aligned in terms of what matters, and what needs to be hammered out is the details of how to get there.

Great advice, and I'd add that the book I mentioned in my earlier post provides really helpful, practical advice on how to have the kind of discussion Malcat describes to understand each other's perspectives and reach an outcome that works for both of you.

Another suggestion to consider is that you propose a "working sabbatical", rather than "retired from a standard paycheck job forever" plan, so that you can assess whether a writing career will work for you in terms of your self-realization and your shared financial objectives. The plan would have a target start date, a plan for how you expect to earn some supplementary income part-time while devoting substantially more hours to writing, and target reassessment date (or dates) when you both assess whether the writing career is working for you (in terms of self-fulfillment) and in terms of your partnership (financial and otherwise). For example, a few elements of the first stage of the plan might be:

Next 6 months:
1. Reduce discretionary expenditures (especially your discretionary expenditures) and develop a clearer picture of your costs/budget.
2. Develop a plan for what you plan to achieve in terms of your writing by end of Year 1, Year 3 and Year 5.
3. Develop plan to communicate with boss about taking a leave of absence (or downshift to part-time work).
4. Explore potential part-time sources of income that you'll activate when you give up your full-time job.
5. Agree on any needed shifts in household division of labour resulting from your shift in work plans.

[sailinlight]

The fact that you look at your side hustle as a part time job and contributing to the household is reflexive of my situation..  my wife says she's an "investor" since she like real estate and manages the upgrades in our houses, and talks to our renters (4 of them). To me, these tasks feel like things that I could easily handle in my day-to-day activities but she seems to treat them as a job and includes them as her contribution to the family.
The way I found to deal with this is to realize that it's not a competition; we're in this together. You married your wife, you both knew what you were getting into and have lived with each other for the past xx years. I assume you trust her and she trusts you to do what's right for your family. If so, then each of you should choose the path that's right you and trust that everything will work out fine. That's what I've found out married to my wife. She doesn't have a traditional job but the connections she makes while talking to people around town have made us hundreds of thousands of dollars more than she would have made working an hourly job.

[Runrooster]

Your side hustle will start to produce passive income if i understand your 20to50k statement.  So you're adding value beyond investments with your hobby you plan to continue after you FIRE - maybe you should make a 20to25k plan to show conservatively how this allows you to quit while your wife can still quit at the same time she was planning to.

That’s not how I read it.  I think he’s saying after publishing 20 books, he’ll have enough of a following to generate $50k/ year publishing 4-6 more books each year. It’s not passive income or revenue from those 20 books.

I think it’s very difficult to predict whether he’ll enjoy cranking out volume, if that volume will maintain quality and if he’ll establish a dedicated audience in the future. Of course I say this pessimistically as someone to whom that work pressure sounds stressful and unpleasant.

[lhamo]

Suze Orman got annoying in recent years but one piece of advice she used to give when people were struggling with choosing between two options was to do a bit of both.

Your target # is 700k + paid off house. Your partner's is 1 mill + paid off house.  So could you settle on 850k + paid off house?  With you agreeing to put your writing-related earnings toward a significant share of household expenses (this might be less in the beginning but could ramp up as your production and income did -- say 10% the first year, 20 the second, etc.)

Taking it one step further, while it may not be financially optimal maybe the best next step for both of you is to get the house paid off.  Then you can see where your annual spending pattern settles out.  And you would not have to deal with the pressure of carrying a mortgage on your writing income when you shift to that full time.

[Runrooster]

The other thing I was noticing, is that OP is currently producing a book every 1.5 years.  At 10-15 hours per week, say 12, that's roughly 1000 hours per book.

OTOH, these retired, SAHM, childless authors are cranking out 4 books a year.  Even assuming they get in 30 hours a week - being child-free doesn't mean endless energy - that's closer to 400 hours per book.  Sure, it can be more efficient to find a flow in a 6-hour writing interval. It can also feel endlessly long when that flow doesn't arrive.  I think overall, the tradeoff between flow and having downtime to think through hurdles is a wash.  If it takes you 1000 hours to produce a book now, it won't be much shorter when you're writing full-time and taking on extra house chores.

Maybe you'll do 2 books a year, maybe less.  It's still a long haul to 20 books.  And unless you get faster, the lower volume will mean not earning 50k.

[startingsmall]

It's easy(ish) to go from one job to another; it's quite another thing to work one job FT while trying to slowly build your dream job for yourself on the side over the course of years...and years...and years in whatever "spare" time your schedule affords you.

While this approach isn't easy, it seems like the best compromise and it's the path I've followed.

I started working as a freelance veterinary writer as a side hustle, while still working my full-time job as a veterinarian. I'm not going to lie - it wasn't easy! As my writing workload increased, I gradually decreased from FT to 2 days/wk to 1 day/wk to eventually quitting my "day job." It took about six years, but I'm now working from home and making just as much money as I would have made if I stayed in practice.

That was the only option for us because I've always been the primary breadwinner in our marriage, but it sounds like a less-risky option for you, too, if your job would lend itself to eventually decreasing from FT to PT.

[Nick_Miller]

The other thing I was noticing, is that OP is currently producing a book every 1.5 years.  At 10-15 hours per week, say 12, that's roughly 1000 hours per book.

OTOH, these retired, SAHM, childless authors are cranking out 4 books a year.  Even assuming they get in 30 hours a week - being child-free doesn't mean endless energy - that's closer to 400 hours per book.  Sure, it can be more efficient to find a flow in a 6-hour writing interval. It can also feel endlessly long when that flow doesn't arrive.  I think overall, the tradeoff between flow and having downtime to think through hurdles is a wash.  If it takes you 1000 hours to produce a book now, it won't be much shorter when you're writing full-time and taking on extra house chores.

Maybe you'll do 2 books a year, maybe less.  It's still a long haul to 20 books.  And unless you get faster, the lower volume will mean not earning 50k.

It's definitely a grind. I mean, even the fastest author who writes FT and can devote 40 hours + per week to writing rarely releases more than 4-6 books a year, and those are generally in the 50k-70k word range. So even they would need 3-5 years to build up to that 20 book backlist.

I write longer stories (over 100k words, some over 120k) and yeah, if I was writing FT, it would be hard to write more than 2-3 per year, so building up to 20 is going to take a LONG time no matter what.

And to previous comments about whether or not the "20booksto50K" goal creates passive income or not, well...sort of. It's passive to the extent you have products out in the universe earning money for you, but it's active in that unless you give your work continuous nudging (by buying ads, using social media, and cranking out more books to take advantage of platform algorithms) your "passive" income is going to drop, and keep dropping, and keep dropping. So once you get to 20 books, you need to keep writing more and keeping the big wheel moving, but hopefully you've built a sustainable business by that point.

[CNM]

I would continue discussing this with her over time.  Not pestering, just reassessing as time goes by.  The biggest bone of contention is the difference in amounts of money needed for FIRE.  So, I'd concentrate on finding ways to get to the larger number either as fast as possible or as pleasantly as possible.

I'd start keeping an eye out for other jobs-- either other legal positions or outside of the legal field -- that offer more of the things you want and less of the things you don't. 

I recall a post of yours a while ago questioning the viability of the firm you're at now.  That makes me  wonder whether you'd be able to find a better paying job with equivalent hours and duties.  Or maybe an equal paying job, but with more flex time, to make the next 5-7 years more tolerable.

[Metalcat]

I would continue discussing this with her over time.  Not pestering, just reassessing as time goes by.  The biggest bone of contention is the difference in amounts of money needed for FIRE.  So, I'd concentrate on finding ways to get to the larger number either as fast as possible or as pleasantly as possible.

I'd start keeping an eye out for other jobs-- either other legal positions or outside of the legal field -- that offer more of the things you want and less of the things you don't. 

I recall a post of yours a while ago questioning the viability of the firm you're at now.  That makes me  wonder whether you'd be able to find a better paying job with equivalent hours and duties.  Or maybe an equal paying job, but with more flex time, to make the next 5-7 years more tolerable.

I would also talk through what those different numbers mean to each of you, what needs they represent, why those needs are important, etc.

Just because two people disagree doesn't mean that's where trying to understand each other ends. Even if they never agree on an exact FIRE number, they can find a way to agree on what their main priorities are. In which case one or both might become highly motivated to adjust their original number.

[Nick_Miller]

I would continue discussing this with her over time.  Not pestering, just reassessing as time goes by.  The biggest bone of contention is the difference in amounts of money needed for FIRE.  So, I'd concentrate on finding ways to get to the larger number either as fast as possible or as pleasantly as possible.

I'd start keeping an eye out for other jobs-- either other legal positions or outside of the legal field -- that offer more of the things you want and less of the things you don't. 

I recall a post of yours a while ago questioning the viability of the firm you're at now.  That makes me  wonder whether you'd be able to find a better paying job with equivalent hours and duties.  Or maybe an equal paying job, but with more flex time, to make the next 5-7 years more tolerable.

I would also talk through what those different numbers mean to each of you, what needs they represent, why those needs are important, etc.

Just because two people disagree doesn't mean that's where trying to understand each other ends. Even if they never agree on an exact FIRE number, they can find a way to agree on what their main priorities are. In which case one or both might become highly motivated to adjust their original number.

Yeah we've agreed to sit down this weekend and try to map out what we both think a yearly budget will look like once we're both done with working FT (with and without mortgage). That will better inform our decisions. I'll run some scenarios at anywhere from 3.5% to 5% withdrawal rates, since I will only be about 10 years from early SS. Building the 5-year conversion pipeline will be the challenging part because we would both be will under 59.5. We have some Roth contributions/cash/small taxable brokerage account, but those would need to be significantly bumped up to pay for 5 years of expenses, even assuming I'd be earning a small yearly income in retirement to offset costs.

We don't have expensive hobbies. We like board games and puzzles and reading, all of which CAN be expensive but don't have to be. We like taking walks in the neighborhood. Travel would be a priority in our 50s and early 60s; that is our joint non-negotiable. We'd like to see an occasional concert. We have a pretty similar vision of retirement, it's just getting there that is the tough part.

[Metalcat]

I would continue discussing this with her over time.  Not pestering, just reassessing as time goes by.  The biggest bone of contention is the difference in amounts of money needed for FIRE.  So, I'd concentrate on finding ways to get to the larger number either as fast as possible or as pleasantly as possible.

I'd start keeping an eye out for other jobs-- either other legal positions or outside of the legal field -- that offer more of the things you want and less of the things you don't. 

I recall a post of yours a while ago questioning the viability of the firm you're at now.  That makes me  wonder whether you'd be able to find a better paying job with equivalent hours and duties.  Or maybe an equal paying job, but with more flex time, to make the next 5-7 years more tolerable.

I would also talk through what those different numbers mean to each of you, what needs they represent, why those needs are important, etc.

Just because two people disagree doesn't mean that's where trying to understand each other ends. Even if they never agree on an exact FIRE number, they can find a way to agree on what their main priorities are. In which case one or both might become highly motivated to adjust their original number.

Yeah we've agreed to sit down this weekend and try to map out what we both think a yearly budget will look like once we're both done with working FT (with and without mortgage). That will better inform our decisions. I'll run some scenarios at anywhere from 3.5% to 5% withdrawal rates, since I will only be about 10 years from early SS. Building the 5-year conversion pipeline will be the challenging part because we would both be will under 59.5. We have some Roth contributions/cash/small taxable brokerage account, but those would need to be significantly bumped up to pay for 5 years of expenses, even assuming I'd be earning a small yearly income in retirement to offset costs.

We don't have expensive hobbies. We like board games and puzzles and reading, all of which CAN be expensive but don't have to be. We like taking walks in the neighborhood. Travel would be a priority in our 50s and early 60s; that is our joint non-negotiable. We'd like to see an occasional concert. We have a pretty similar vision of retirement, it's just getting there that is the tough part.

Dig way deeper than that. Those are the logistics of priorities, not the priorities themselves.

[Runrooster]

Just curious, what are your plans for the kids' college educations?  One income or two, will you get much aid?

ETA: I looked at your journal, and I see that you have 30k saved, and have a goal of 50K, or 25K per daughter.  I don't judge other people's choices as to how much to ask their kids to take loans, but I am surprised.  At least in my area, in-state tuition for one year is 12K and room and board is 18k. 25k savings is a drop in the bucket compared to 120k expenses for 4 years.  Maybe your college is cheaper, or maybe you live close enough for your kids to commute to school.  My extended family all commuted to college 30-40 years ago, though all of the kids I know today in the upper middle class are living on campus.  Paying full fare for your kids college would probably set back your retirement plans more than you'd like.

[boarder42]

Just curious, what are your plans for the kids' college educations?  One income or two, will you get much aid?

ETA: I looked at your journal, and I see that you have 30k saved, and have a goal of 50K, or 25K per daughter.  I don't judge other people's choices as to how much to ask their kids to take loans, but I am surprised.  At least in my area, in-state tuition for one year is 12K and room and board is 18k. 25k savings is a drop in the bucket compared to 120k expenses for 4 years.  Maybe your college is cheaper, or maybe you live close enough for your kids to commute to school.  My extended family all commuted to college 30-40 years ago, though all of the kids I know today in the upper middle class are living on campus.  Paying full fare for your kids college would probably set back your retirement plans more than you'd like.

you realize college isnt a requirement to get a job anymore - salesforce or google classes can have your kids making piles of money in 6 months for almost no cost.  I'm always confused in this forum when parents fail to think outside of the box with respect to college

[Nick_Miller]

Just curious, what are your plans for the kids' college educations?  One income or two, will you get much aid?

ETA: I looked at your journal, and I see that you have 30k saved, and have a goal of 50K, or 25K per daughter.  I don't judge other people's choices as to how much to ask their kids to take loans, but I am surprised.  At least in my area, in-state tuition for one year is 12K and room and board is 18k. 25k savings is a drop in the bucket compared to 120k expenses for 4 years.  Maybe your college is cheaper, or maybe you live close enough for your kids to commute to school.  My extended family all commuted to college 30-40 years ago, though all of the kids I know today in the upper middle class are living on campus.  Paying full fare for your kids college would probably set back your retirement plans more than you'd like.

you realize college isnt a requirement to get a job anymore - salesforce or google classes can have your kids making piles of money in 6 months for almost no cost.  I'm always confused in this forum when parents fail to think outside of the box with respect to college

I'm confused by folks who have a default to "pay entirely for my childrens' college expenses."

I mean, when did that get to be a default assumption?

My kiddos will graduate from some of the best high schools not just in our city, but in our entire state. We did everything we could to facilitate that happening. They will graduate high school with $ in their checking accounts, straight teeth, beater cars, a supportive family, and at least $25K each in an 529. Honestly, that is a LOT more than I had when I graduated high school.

We will help them in every way possible to apply for as many scholarships as is feasible. Honestly I would be shocked if my oldest didn't get a full ride, or close to it. We will invite them to go to college in our city and stay at home in a stable environment (my parents were divorcing as I entered college so yeah, I did not want to be there). And I'm sure we'll offer them a little financial assistance from time to time during their college years. I'm not sure how much more can be expected? They will both need to work PT during college to pay for car insurance and other costs.

And my youngest kiddo wants to work in the culinary arts so I'm not even sure what her "schooling" may look like. But we have time to figure that out.

[Nick_Miller]

And generally speaking, I think I have plenty of feedback on this thread. I wouldn't want anyone spending their time typing out more stuff at this point.

Thanks to the folks who were thoughtful and non-judgmental. Your suggestions are in my brainbox!

[Metalcat]

Just curious, what are your plans for the kids' college educations?  One income or two, will you get much aid?

ETA: I looked at your journal, and I see that you have 30k saved, and have a goal of 50K, or 25K per daughter.  I don't judge other people's choices as to how much to ask their kids to take loans, but I am surprised.  At least in my area, in-state tuition for one year is 12K and room and board is 18k. 25k savings is a drop in the bucket compared to 120k expenses for 4 years.  Maybe your college is cheaper, or maybe you live close enough for your kids to commute to school.  My extended family all commuted to college 30-40 years ago, though all of the kids I know today in the upper middle class are living on campus.  Paying full fare for your kids college would probably set back your retirement plans more than you'd like.

you realize college isnt a requirement to get a job anymore - salesforce or google classes can have your kids making piles of money in 6 months for almost no cost.  I'm always confused in this forum when parents fail to think outside of the box with respect to college

same

[boarder42]

Just curious, what are your plans for the kids' college educations?  One income or two, will you get much aid?

ETA: I looked at your journal, and I see that you have 30k saved, and have a goal of 50K, or 25K per daughter.  I don't judge other people's choices as to how much to ask their kids to take loans, but I am surprised.  At least in my area, in-state tuition for one year is 12K and room and board is 18k. 25k savings is a drop in the bucket compared to 120k expenses for 4 years.  Maybe your college is cheaper, or maybe you live close enough for your kids to commute to school.  My extended family all commuted to college 30-40 years ago, though all of the kids I know today in the upper middle class are living on campus.  Paying full fare for your kids college would probably set back your retirement plans more than you'd like.

you realize college isnt a requirement to get a job anymore - salesforce or google classes can have your kids making piles of money in 6 months for almost no cost.  I'm always confused in this forum when parents fail to think outside of the box with respect to college

I'm confused by folks who have a default to "pay entirely for my childrens' college expenses."

I mean, when did that get to be a default assumption?

My kiddos will graduate from some of the best high schools not just in our city, but in our entire state. We did everything we could to facilitate that happening. They will graduate high school with $ in their checking accounts, straight teeth, beater cars, a supportive family, and at least $25K each in an 529. Honestly, that is a LOT more than I had when I graduated high school.

We will help them in every way possible to apply for as many scholarships as is feasible. Honestly I would be shocked if my oldest didn't get a full ride, or close to it. We will invite them to go to college in our city and stay at home in a stable environment (my parents were divorcing as I entered college so yeah, I did not want to be there). And I'm sure we'll offer them a little financial assistance from time to time during their college years. I'm not sure how much more can be expected? They will both need to work PT during college to pay for car insurance and other costs.

And my youngest kiddo wants to work in the culinary arts so I'm not even sure what her "schooling" may look like. But we have time to figure that out.

are there any local highschools or magnet schools in your district that focus on Real world learning where she could start delving into what she thinks she wants to do and maybe even come out with a few certificates prior to graduation?  It's a growing trend across the country.  I'm working with a local school to pivot a portion of the HS population to a new model and they are acquiring real estate to open a modified learning center.

Dallas is one of the better schools at this currently i believe

https://www.dallasisd.org/careerinstitutes

Almost like VoTech schools were when i was growing up but quite a bit more emphasis and more time in the more practical path to a job out of HS.

[wageslave23]

Just curious, what are your plans for the kids' college educations?  One income or two, will you get much aid?

ETA: I looked at your journal, and I see that you have 30k saved, and have a goal of 50K, or 25K per daughter.  I don't judge other people's choices as to how much to ask their kids to take loans, but I am surprised.  At least in my area, in-state tuition for one year is 12K and room and board is 18k. 25k savings is a drop in the bucket compared to 120k expenses for 4 years.  Maybe your college is cheaper, or maybe you live close enough for your kids to commute to school.  My extended family all commuted to college 30-40 years ago, though all of the kids I know today in the upper middle class are living on campus.  Paying full fare for your kids college would probably set back your retirement plans more than you'd like.

you realize college isnt a requirement to get a job anymore - salesforce or google classes can have your kids making piles of money in 6 months for almost no cost.  I'm always confused in this forum when parents fail to think outside of the box with respect to college

I'm confused by folks who have a default to "pay entirely for my childrens' college expenses."

I mean, when did that get to be a default assumption?

My kiddos will graduate from some of the best high schools not just in our city, but in our entire state. We did everything we could to facilitate that happening. They will graduate high school with $ in their checking accounts, straight teeth, beater cars, a supportive family, and at least $25K each in an 529. Honestly, that is a LOT more than I had when I graduated high school.

We will help them in every way possible to apply for as many scholarships as is feasible. Honestly I would be shocked if my oldest didn't get a full ride, or close to it. We will invite them to go to college in our city and stay at home in a stable environment (my parents were divorcing as I entered college so yeah, I did not want to be there). And I'm sure we'll offer them a little financial assistance from time to time during their college years. I'm not sure how much more can be expected? They will both need to work PT during college to pay for car insurance and other costs.

And my youngest kiddo wants to work in the culinary arts so I'm not even sure what her "schooling" may look like. But we have time to figure that out.

Thats more than reasonable.  College is a choice just like anything else and the costs should be weighed against the benefits.  I will sit down with my kids when the time comes and help them decide what's best for them.  There will be no pile of cash given to them regardless of their choice.  The information and guidance I give them will be valuable and the lessons they learn while paying their own way will be invaluable.

[boarder42]

Just curious, what are your plans for the kids' college educations?  One income or two, will you get much aid?

ETA: I looked at your journal, and I see that you have 30k saved, and have a goal of 50K, or 25K per daughter.  I don't judge other people's choices as to how much to ask their kids to take loans, but I am surprised.  At least in my area, in-state tuition for one year is 12K and room and board is 18k. 25k savings is a drop in the bucket compared to 120k expenses for 4 years.  Maybe your college is cheaper, or maybe you live close enough for your kids to commute to school.  My extended family all commuted to college 30-40 years ago, though all of the kids I know today in the upper middle class are living on campus.  Paying full fare for your kids college would probably set back your retirement plans more than you'd like.

you realize college isnt a requirement to get a job anymore - salesforce or google classes can have your kids making piles of money in 6 months for almost no cost.  I'm always confused in this forum when parents fail to think outside of the box with respect to college

I'm confused by folks who have a default to "pay entirely for my childrens' college expenses."

I mean, when did that get to be a default assumption?

My kiddos will graduate from some of the best high schools not just in our city, but in our entire state. We did everything we could to facilitate that happening. They will graduate high school with $ in their checking accounts, straight teeth, beater cars, a supportive family, and at least $25K each in an 529. Honestly, that is a LOT more than I had when I graduated high school.

We will help them in every way possible to apply for as many scholarships as is feasible. Honestly I would be shocked if my oldest didn't get a full ride, or close to it. We will invite them to go to college in our city and stay at home in a stable environment (my parents were divorcing as I entered college so yeah, I did not want to be there). And I'm sure we'll offer them a little financial assistance from time to time during their college years. I'm not sure how much more can be expected? They will both need to work PT during college to pay for car insurance and other costs.

And my youngest kiddo wants to work in the culinary arts so I'm not even sure what her "schooling" may look like. But we have time to figure that out.

Thats more than reasonable.  College is a choice just like anything else and the costs should be weighed against the benefits.  I will sit down with my kids when the time comes and help them decide what's best for them.  There will be no pile of cash given to them regardless of their choice.  The information and guidance I give them will be valuable and the lessons they learn while paying their own way will be invaluable.

Our current plans should kids choose to go to college is to make them think they are paying for it all themselves and take out whatever money/work/scholarships they need.  Then after completing it and getting a job we might just pay it off or take over their payments whatever makes the most financial sense.

[Metalcat]

Our current plans should kids choose to go to college is to make them think they are paying for it all themselves and take out whatever money/work/scholarships they need.  Then after completing it and getting a job we might just pay it off or take over their payments whatever makes the most financial sense.

This is not a criticism, but I've seen a lot of wealthier families do this with the exact opposite intended effect.

The loans that kids take out for school mean virtually nothing to them until they have to pay them off, they don't even feel real until then. So by having them take them out, and then not have to deal with them, they don't really learn anything from the experience.

As opposed to helping them fund school to a degree, but with a caveat that they have to fund a certain amount themselves, with really active budgeting, monthly reviews of spending, etc, to help them learn to manage along the way, rather than just getting a pile of cash from loans and then when it comes time to worry about them, being bailed out before the concept of debt even becomes real.

I know that when I was racking up hundreds of thousands of dollars in professional school debt, it meant nothing to me. I just ignored it until I started working.

[boarder42]

Our current plans should kids choose to go to college is to make them think they are paying for it all themselves and take out whatever money/work/scholarships they need.  Then after completing it and getting a job we might just pay it off or take over their payments whatever makes the most financial sense.

This is not a criticism, but I've seen a lot of wealthier families do this with the exact opposite intended effect.

The loans that kids take out for school mean virtually nothing to them until they have to pay them off, they don't even feel real until then. So by having them take them out, and then not have to deal with them, they don't really learn anything from the experience.

As opposed to helping them fund school to a degree, but with a caveat that they have to fund a certain amount themselves, with really active budgeting, monthly reviews of spending, etc, to help them learn to manage along the way, rather than just getting a pile of cash from loans and then when it comes time to worry about them, being bailed out before the concept of debt even becomes real.

I know that when I was racking up hundreds of thousands of dollars in professional school debt, it meant nothing to me. I just ignored it until I started working.

thats actually a good call - i mean i hadn't though to the free ticket idea with debt b/c i never had any.  But what my parents did do was give me 2k towards my college costs per year i was lucky and the rest was covered by scholarships and working in the summers in internships including taking a semester off to work.  I also joined a fraternity that was 400 a month vs 1200 a month for room and board.  And i turned our really financially savvy - maybe my parents did it the right way.

[Villanelle]

Nick, I can't tell if you don't want any other comments, so if that's the case, disregard...

But I think there is plenty of middle ground to be explored.  Instead of quit at 600k or both quit at 100k, maybe you work until 800k.  Maybe you propose a flexible job (like substitute teaching, consulting, dog walking, or some other scalable endeavor) and you agree to work X days/earn $A income from that until you get the writing up to $25k, and then work Y days/earn $B income until your income is up to $35k, and then you can quit the job entirely.  that should buy you more time to work on the writing, but get more income to help your spouse feel more secure.  (I'm imagining $A + $25k = somewhat less than $40k, but not significantly so.)  And maybe those numbers are different, but the point stands--you get to quite full time work, perhaps not quite as soon as you'd hoped but before your wife hopes, but there is a commitment to bring in a minimum dollar amount via some combination of your writing and other work to offer a bit more security to your risk-averse spouse.