Author Topic: Buying a Nissan Leaf  (Read 66354 times)

MMMarbleheader

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #100 on: April 07, 2016, 08:37:37 AM »
I appreciate the Leaf conversation.

When I got into the full MMM mode, I was very anti-car commuting as I work in Boston and the cost to commute into the city + pay for parking in crazy.

Recently I was offered a new position in my company that comes with parking + the garage has free chargers. The thing about Boston is that public transport is also really expensive. If I can get the monthly Lead cost below $300 I think I may just do it. This will give me the ability to get into work at 6am which I cannot do with public transport. Leaving at 230-300 instead of 330 to 4 will do a lot for my family life.

I actually think the e-golf might be the cheapest option with the $159/mo lease plus MA will give me $2500.

The Chevy Spark is not available here.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2016, 08:42:24 AM by MMMarbleheader »

forummm

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #101 on: April 07, 2016, 09:16:13 AM »
And we've never forgotten to plug in overnight.  Every night before I go to bed I stick my head into the garage to make sure the garage door is closed, and the car is right there shining it's little blue dash lights at me to confirm that it's charging.

I agree that the charging is super convenient. It's only a little thought required for us because we 1) have 2 cars and only 1 L2 charging station, 2) are trying to charge only while we're asleep, and 3) charge to 100% and are trying to baby the batteries a little. Usually we just plug it in when we get home if the battery is pretty low, but DW forgot yesterday because of being distracted by something else.

PathtoFIRE

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #102 on: April 07, 2016, 10:51:56 AM »
Initially I was plugging in every time I came home too, but now I try to just plug in on my last return, not for any particularly good reason. Well, I tell myself that the fewer times I plug in, the less wear on the port and the charger, but then again, I've been encouraging my little kids to the plugging/unplugging for me, so that probably negates any effort I've made on that end. I'm using the trickle charger, and those bad boys seems very expensive to replace right now, which I think is weird since my understanding is that the actual charger itself is built into the car.

I've forgotten to charge overnight twice. Once, it made no difference, I had plenty of battery left for the next day as well as getting it charged fully after that. However, the other time, we had planned an outing of 80 miles roundtrip, and while we started out with just over 80 miles on the guess-o-meter, this was mostly highway traffic, so we clearly weren't going to make it all of the way back home. So we stopped at a dealership, let it charge for a half hour, and enjoyed some frostys next door. I though it worked out just fine, but DW was still upset with me.

MasterStache

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #103 on: April 07, 2016, 10:57:40 AM »
It's been difficult to find a Leaf around me but I've found a couple roughly 100 miles away, including this one
http://www.columbusautosource.com/car-details.cfm?carKey=69910

Prices have already come down since I bought my car last month, but that car isn't terribly priced.  With miles that low, it's probably worth around $8k here.  I'd check Craigslist to see what they go for around you before walking into that stealership.

I wouldn't even drive the 120 miles to see the car unless they made me an offer that's tough to beat. Highly unlikely. I've been watching Craigslist like a hawk everyday for several months. Rarely do I see a Leaf even within 100 miles. Only one on their currently and they want 10K for it (2011). Way overpriced. I'll keep watching.

RedmondStash

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #104 on: April 07, 2016, 08:28:33 PM »
I appreciate the Leaf conversation.

When I got into the full MMM mode, I was very anti-car commuting as I work in Boston and the cost to commute into the city + pay for parking in crazy.

Recently I was offered a new position in my company that comes with parking + the garage has free chargers. The thing about Boston is that public transport is also really expensive. If I can get the monthly Lead cost below $300 I think I may just do it. This will give me the ability to get into work at 6am which I cannot do with public transport. Leaving at 230-300 instead of 330 to 4 will do a lot for my family life.

I actually think the e-golf might be the cheapest option with the $159/mo lease plus MA will give me $2500.

The Chevy Spark is not available here.

Speaking of leasing, what do you folks think about leasing vs. buying electric cars? The idea of "lease" kind of gives me the heebie-jeebies (all that money, just thrown way!), but this is new technology, improving all the time. So I'm torn.

sol

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #105 on: April 07, 2016, 09:37:57 PM »
Speaking of leasing, what do you folks think about leasing vs. buying electric cars? The idea of "lease" kind of gives me the heebie-jeebies (all that money, just thrown way!), but this is new technology, improving all the time. So I'm torn.

Some new friends of mine just leased a leaf, and they were horrified that I had bought one outright.  The lease incentives are really good in some places, like under $200/mo.  I tried to explain that at my purchase price of $7700, I'll have a free car after they will have been leasing for 3 years and the months.  But they can't see the total cost to own, only the monthly recurring payment, and from that perspective they are saving more in gas than they are paying on their lease.

forummm

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #106 on: April 08, 2016, 06:53:39 AM »
Speaking of leasing, what do you folks think about leasing vs. buying electric cars? The idea of "lease" kind of gives me the heebie-jeebies (all that money, just thrown way!), but this is new technology, improving all the time. So I'm torn.

Some new friends of mine just leased a leaf, and they were horrified that I had bought one outright.  The lease incentives are really good in some places, like under $200/mo.  I tried to explain that at my purchase price of $7700, I'll have a free car after they will have been leasing for 3 years and the months.  But they can't see the total cost to own, only the monthly recurring payment, and from that perspective they are saving more in gas than they are paying on their lease.

Similarly, in GA the incentives made it really attractive to lease (until the incentives were axed). And everyone was leasing and thinking it was free because the gas savings paid for the lease cost (about $100/mo after incentives if you got a good deal). But I knew that the tax credit was going away soon so after 3 years, it would get more expensive to get another car. And Nissan was also offering huge cash back for purchases and 0% financing (since I borrowed the full amount and pocketed the $12,500 in tax credits per car, I still have negative cash in both cars) because they were doing so many leases. The people at the dealership were surprised I wanted to buy outright (90% of Leaf sales were leases at that time). And I got a big discount on the purchase price too.

couponvan

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #107 on: April 08, 2016, 12:51:33 PM »
We have two homes, one we plan to FIRE to in 7 years.  It is 102 miles away.

90% of the miles are highway miles and the speed limit is 70 MPH.  We will still have a gas powered car that would be the normal method of reaching the house for the next few years. 

I had thought there was a charging station at the 1/2 way point.  I was wrong....which stinks.  There are actually only two on the way - one is 73 miles from the house, and the other is 19 miles from the house.  You would imagine that the electric infrastructure would grow in the future as this is along Highway 80. However, given the Leaf's maximum 84 mile range even new, if we did "have" to take the electric car in an emergency, could we leave the house with a fully charged 2012 Leaf, drive 19 miles - charge for 1/2-1 hour and then drive 57 miles to the next charger?  How long would I need to stay at a CHAdeMO plug to get the last 25 miles to the house?  There's a grocery store next to the last charger where we'd probably spend about 1/2 hour shopping, but I would think it might take longer than that to charge.  DH would not be amused if this was the case.  There is also a rental car company near our house that often has $9.95/day weekend specials on cars.  I might consider renting a car on those rare times we needed to use the car as I'd hate to run out of juice along the way.

Sol and ForuMMM, and any other owners, I'd appreciate input as to whether that drive is doable, or whether I'd look stupid driving my Leaf 40 MPH on the freeway trying to conserve battery.

forummm

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #108 on: April 08, 2016, 01:57:50 PM »
Any thoughts on how to confirm battery function and capacity short of driving until it stops? I googled a bit, but that was more or less what was recommended with a lot more words.

You can get a bluetooth OBDII port reader (I think that's the acronym) and the free LeafSpy Lite app and see the values from your battery on your phone. Ideally you would do some driving to see how it changes as you drive. But it does provide some data on individual cells and state of health, etc.

forummm

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #109 on: April 08, 2016, 02:02:26 PM »
We have two homes, one we plan to FIRE to in 7 years.  It is 102 miles away.

90% of the miles are highway miles and the speed limit is 70 MPH.  We will still have a gas powered car that would be the normal method of reaching the house for the next few years. 

I had thought there was a charging station at the 1/2 way point.  I was wrong....which stinks.  There are actually only two on the way - one is 73 miles from the house, and the other is 19 miles from the house.  You would imagine that the electric infrastructure would grow in the future as this is along Highway 80. However, given the Leaf's maximum 84 mile range even new, if we did "have" to take the electric car in an emergency, could we leave the house with a fully charged 2012 Leaf, drive 19 miles - charge for 1/2-1 hour and then drive 57 miles to the next charger?  How long would I need to stay at a CHAdeMO plug to get the last 25 miles to the house?  There's a grocery store next to the last charger where we'd probably spend about 1/2 hour shopping, but I would think it might take longer than that to charge.  DH would not be amused if this was the case.  There is also a rental car company near our house that often has $9.95/day weekend specials on cars.  I might consider renting a car on those rare times we needed to use the car as I'd hate to run out of juice along the way.

Sol and ForuMMM, and any other owners, I'd appreciate input as to whether that drive is doable, or whether I'd look stupid driving my Leaf 40 MPH on the freeway trying to conserve battery.

If you drove 65 on the freeway with no A/C and windows up you should be OK to go 57 miles even in a 2012. But it depends on how degraded that battery is (and it will get more degraded, slowly over time). An L3 going from almost empty would give you 25 miles within 5-10 minutes (L3 becomes as slow as L2 over about 90% charged). An L2 would take more like 50 if you have an onboard 6.6kW charger.

RedmondStash

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #110 on: April 08, 2016, 06:04:51 PM »
Similarly, in GA the incentives made it really attractive to lease (until the incentives were axed). And everyone was leasing and thinking it was free because the gas savings paid for the lease cost (about $100/mo after incentives if you got a good deal). But I knew that the tax credit was going away soon so after 3 years, it would get more expensive to get another car. And Nissan was also offering huge cash back for purchases and 0% financing (since I borrowed the full amount and pocketed the $12,500 in tax credits per car, I still have negative cash in both cars) because they were doing so many leases. The people at the dealership were surprised I wanted to buy outright (90% of Leaf sales were leases at that time). And I got a big discount on the purchase price too.

May I ask how big a discount? I have literally never bought a new car, so I don't know how seriously to take sticker prices. Right now, I'm seeing $29,010 as the starting MSRP for a 2016 Nissan Leaf S, but I'm not sure what that includes.

I'm currently planning to buy a used Leaf, not a new one, but a hefty discount (on top of federal rebates) might just change my mind, given that the electric-car tech is still so new and changing so rapidly.

forummm

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #111 on: April 08, 2016, 06:50:18 PM »
Similarly, in GA the incentives made it really attractive to lease (until the incentives were axed). And everyone was leasing and thinking it was free because the gas savings paid for the lease cost (about $100/mo after incentives if you got a good deal). But I knew that the tax credit was going away soon so after 3 years, it would get more expensive to get another car. And Nissan was also offering huge cash back for purchases and 0% financing (since I borrowed the full amount and pocketed the $12,500 in tax credits per car, I still have negative cash in both cars) because they were doing so many leases. The people at the dealership were surprised I wanted to buy outright (90% of Leaf sales were leases at that time). And I got a big discount on the purchase price too.

May I ask how big a discount? I have literally never bought a new car, so I don't know how seriously to take sticker prices. Right now, I'm seeing $29,010 as the starting MSRP for a 2016 Nissan Leaf S, but I'm not sure what that includes.

I'm currently planning to buy a used Leaf, not a new one, but a hefty discount (on top of federal rebates) might just change my mind, given that the electric-car tech is still so new and changing so rapidly.

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/nissan-leaf-almost-paying-me-to-drive-it/

I paid under invoice less holdback (i.e. less than what the real price the dealer paid). But the dealer did OK because it helped them hit end of month bonuses. Same for the salesman.

$29,500 (including everything except state fees)
-$7,500 (federal)
-$5,000 (state)
-$3,500 (Nissan)
=$13.5k
I financed the 26k plus state fees (GA taxes you upfront when you acquire a vehicle and then there's no annual tax) at 0% for 6 years.

I got the $12.5k when I filed my taxes. But since I financed this part of the purchase price, Nissan is lending me the money at 0% so I can invest it until the payments catch up to it over 3 years.

RedmondStash

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #112 on: April 08, 2016, 08:23:37 PM »
Similarly, in GA the incentives made it really attractive to lease (until the incentives were axed). And everyone was leasing and thinking it was free because the gas savings paid for the lease cost (about $100/mo after incentives if you got a good deal). But I knew that the tax credit was going away soon so after 3 years, it would get more expensive to get another car. And Nissan was also offering huge cash back for purchases and 0% financing (since I borrowed the full amount and pocketed the $12,500 in tax credits per car, I still have negative cash in both cars) because they were doing so many leases. The people at the dealership were surprised I wanted to buy outright (90% of Leaf sales were leases at that time). And I got a big discount on the purchase price too.

May I ask how big a discount? I have literally never bought a new car, so I don't know how seriously to take sticker prices. Right now, I'm seeing $29,010 as the starting MSRP for a 2016 Nissan Leaf S, but I'm not sure what that includes.

I'm currently planning to buy a used Leaf, not a new one, but a hefty discount (on top of federal rebates) might just change my mind, given that the electric-car tech is still so new and changing so rapidly.

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/nissan-leaf-almost-paying-me-to-drive-it/

I paid under invoice less holdback (i.e. less than what the real price the dealer paid). But the dealer did OK because it helped them hit end of month bonuses. Same for the salesman.

$29,500 (including everything except state fees)
-$7,500 (federal)
-$5,000 (state)
-$3,500 (Nissan)
=$13.5k
I financed the 26k plus state fees (GA taxes you upfront when you acquire a vehicle and then there's no annual tax) at 0% for 6 years.

I got the $12.5k when I filed my taxes. But since I financed this part of the purchase price, Nissan is lending me the money at 0% so I can invest it until the payments catch up to it over 3 years.

Wow, that's impressive. That's what a 2013-2015 Nissan Leaf goes for around here. Food for thought. Thank you.

couponvan

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #113 on: April 08, 2016, 11:00:24 PM »
We have two homes, one we plan to FIRE to in 7 years.  It is 102 miles away.

90% of the miles are highway miles and the speed limit is 70 MPH.  We will still have a gas powered car that would be the normal method of reaching the house for the next few years. 

I had thought there was a charging station at the 1/2 way point.  I was wrong....which stinks.  There are actually only two on the way - one is 73 miles from the house, and the other is 19 miles from the house.  You would imagine that the electric infrastructure would grow in the future as this is along Highway 80. However, given the Leaf's maximum 84 mile range even new, if we did "have" to take the electric car in an emergency, could we leave the house with a fully charged 2012 Leaf, drive 19 miles - charge for 1/2-1 hour and then drive 57 miles to the next charger?  How long would I need to stay at a CHAdeMO plug to get the last 25 miles to the house?  There's a grocery store next to the last charger where we'd probably spend about 1/2 hour shopping, but I would think it might take longer than that to charge.  DH would not be amused if this was the case.  There is also a rental car company near our house that often has $9.95/day weekend specials on cars.  I might consider renting a car on those rare times we needed to use the car as I'd hate to run out of juice along the way.

Sol and ForuMMM, and any other owners, I'd appreciate input as to whether that drive is doable, or whether I'd look stupid driving my Leaf 40 MPH on the freeway trying to conserve battery.

If you drove 65 on the freeway with no A/C and windows up you should be OK to go 57 miles even in a 2012. But it depends on how degraded that battery is (and it will get more degraded, slowly over time). An L3 going from almost empty would give you 25 miles within 5-10 minutes (L3 becomes as slow as L2 over about 90% charged). An L2 would take more like 50 if you have an onboard 6.6kW charger.

Thank you. Since Nissan has $4K back now I was tempted by the '16 with the further range, alas IL no longer has the $4K state incentive, and it makes more sense to do the '12 used with no incentives(for the 2-3 times a year I "might" need to rent a car).

couponvan

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #114 on: April 13, 2016, 03:24:05 PM »
OK smart EV people - if you had a choice between a 2012 Leaf with 21K miles and a 2013 Leaf with 41K miles for the exact same price with the exact same options, which one would you buy? One is red/burgundy (2012) and one is silver (2013), but color is irrelevant to me.  The price is fair - under $8K for either. Help me choose.

The newer car with more miles has a younger battery.  Should it get slightly higher range? Range is important to me.

I will drive under the average number of annual miles in the car myself so over the next 5-6 years it should still end up with low mileage. 

ETA - KBB of 2013 is $10.7, KBB of 2012 is $10.2.  KBB says the 2013 is the better deal, but KBB is not mustachian.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 03:26:22 PM by couponvan »

forummm

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #115 on: April 13, 2016, 04:51:24 PM »
OK smart EV people - if you had a choice between a 2012 Leaf with 21K miles and a 2013 Leaf with 41K miles for the exact same price with the exact same options, which one would you buy? One is red/burgundy (2012) and one is silver (2013), but color is irrelevant to me.  The price is fair - under $8K for either. Help me choose.

The newer car with more miles has a younger battery.  Should it get slightly higher range? Range is important to me.

I will drive under the average number of annual miles in the car myself so over the next 5-6 years it should still end up with low mileage. 

ETA - KBB of 2013 is $10.7, KBB of 2012 is $10.2.  KBB says the 2013 is the better deal, but KBB is not mustachian.

If you'll drive few enough miles to keep the 2013 under 60k before it's 60 months old (for battery capacity warranty purposes), I guess I would go with that one.

couponvan

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #116 on: April 13, 2016, 05:27:01 PM »
OK smart EV people - if you had a choice between a 2012 Leaf with 21K miles and a 2013 Leaf with 41K miles for the exact same price with the exact same options, which one would you buy? One is red/burgundy (2012) and one is silver (2013), but color is irrelevant to me.  The price is fair - under $8K for either. Help me choose.

The newer car with more miles has a younger battery.  Should it get slightly higher range? Range is important to me.

I will drive under the average number of annual miles in the car myself so over the next 5-6 years it should still end up with low mileage. 

ETA - KBB of 2013 is $10.7, KBB of 2012 is $10.2.  KBB says the 2013 is the better deal, but KBB is not mustachian.

If you'll drive few enough miles to keep the 2013 under 60k before it's 60 months old (for battery capacity warranty purposes), I guess I would go with that one.

Sound advice...the warranty goes that far. I drive about 7,000 miles per year, so it would be close on mileage....although since my company instituted a WFH unless necessary to be in the office philosophy, that mileage will probably go down to 5,000-6,000 per year.

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #117 on: April 13, 2016, 06:57:42 PM »
OK smart EV people - if you had a choice between a 2012 Leaf with 21K miles and a 2013 Leaf with 41K miles for the exact same price with the exact same options, which one would you buy? One is red/burgundy (2012) and one is silver (2013), but color is irrelevant to me.  The price is fair - under $8K for either. Help me choose.

The newer car with more miles has a younger battery.  Should it get slightly higher range? Range is important to me.

I will drive under the average number of annual miles in the car myself so over the next 5-6 years it should still end up with low mileage. 

ETA - KBB of 2013 is $10.7, KBB of 2012 is $10.2.  KBB says the 2013 is the better deal, but KBB is not mustachian.

I believe the 2013 has some substantial improvements, including battery & range, which is part of why the 2011 and 2012 tend to be much cheaper now.

And I think more improvements were made for the 2015 & 2016, which I'm hoping will drive down prices of the 2013 even more for when I'm ready to buy.

sol

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #118 on: April 13, 2016, 07:18:35 PM »
The 2013+ cars do have some improvements.  Most of them are under the hood and invisible to an average user.

The resistive heater was replaced with a heat pump, so using the climate control takes less of a toll on the battery, which is why they are reported to get slightly better range.  They lowered the floor in the back, giving you a little more cargo area.  They also introduced the S trim in 2013, which as the smaller screen on the console (which I didn't like).  They introduced the black interior (which I did like).  They detuned the torque output so it's harder to do accidental burnouts.

But the big difference is that they changed the battery chemistry.  The 2011 and 12 Leafs use a battery chemistry that is more sensitive to higher temperatures, so if you live in a place that routinely sees 90 degrees or hotter, I'd go with the 2013. 

Based on my own analysis of used Leaf prices, I determined that each 10k miles on the odometer was worth about $500 in purchase price.  So car with 20k extra miles should be $1,000 cheaper. 
 
That's complicated in your case because of the model change between 2012/13.  Around here, the 2013+ cars of identical feature and mileage were going for at least $3k (like 40%!) more than the 2012 cars.  So you're looking at a car that would be worth $3k more on the open market (based on other buyer's opinions of fair price) and loses about $1k of that to mileage, so is "worth" maybe $2k more.  This is probably why kbb is saying it is a better deal at the same price.

But if it were me, I'd buy the 2012 unless you live somewhere with hot summers.  If you don't care about the heater efficiency, the extra few inches of rear cargo space, or the black interior, and you want more power, then you're better off just getting the lower mileage battery.  Battery replacement costs are likely to be comparable in scale to your electricity costs for charging that battery, over it's lifetime, so the longer you can put off battery replacement the better.  At your usage, you'd be getting an extra 3+ years of use out of buying the 2012 even though it is one year older.

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #119 on: April 13, 2016, 07:40:08 PM »
sol and RedmondStash, Thank you for the feedback.  We hope to have a decision this weekend - and if one of them sells in advance, then I guess the decision will be easy.  I am still waiting for final shipping quotes since I have to move it across the country.  I've got one for $395 - and based on feedback from MMM (the real one!), this looks like a good deal for shipping. (Full disclosure, it's probably cheaper because we've referred business to them over the years and we told them it could be anywhere in the next month when they have room on the truck.  My mom will keep the car until we're ready to ship.)

It will be weird buying a car I've never even test driven or seen/smelled in person, but my BIL is a car guy and he's done the honors. We do have hot summers and I do like heaters.  I don't care about more power.

If IL would just bring back the $4K charging station tax incentive, we would be golden.  :-)

forummm

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #120 on: April 13, 2016, 08:20:58 PM »
You should find out how many battery capacity bars the cars have.

sol

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #121 on: April 13, 2016, 09:02:15 PM »
You should find out how many battery capacity bars the cars have.

Yes I agree he/she should do that, but I can probably predict the answers.

A car with only 20k miles on the odometer should have all 12 bars (on the far right battery capacity guage).  They are hard to count, but the top one should be above the little "1" at the top of the meter, like this.

A car with 30k miles has probably lost it's 12th bar, and the far right gauge will look like this.  Generally speaking those early cars lose their 12 bar somewhere around 30k miles, with some cars kept in hot climates losing it as early as 16k miles and some cars in cold Scandanavia keeping it until well past 50k.

And I wouldn't worry about the smell.  Smells can be fixed.  The best deals on a car I've ever gotten was from buying smoker's cars that nobody else wanted because it was stinky, and rehabbing the interior.

couponvan

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #122 on: April 13, 2016, 10:15:10 PM »
You should find out how many battery capacity bars the cars have.

Yes I agree he/she should do that, but I can probably predict the answers.

A car with only 20k miles on the odometer should have all 12 bars (on the far right battery capacity guage).  They are hard to count, but the top one should be above the little "1" at the top of the meter, like this.

A car with 30k miles has probably lost it's 12th bar, and the far right gauge will look like this.  Generally speaking those early cars lose their 12 bar somewhere around 30k miles, with some cars kept in hot climates losing it as early as 16k miles and some cars in cold Scandanavia keeping it until well past 50k.

And I wouldn't worry about the smell.  Smells can be fixed.  The best deals on a car I've ever gotten was from buying smoker's cars that nobody else wanted because it was stinky, and rehabbing the interior.

I am hoping this is a not too hot area car.  DH would not like seeing the battery charge under the 12, so maybe the 2012 is the better option... My BIL will look at it on both of them - and if they aren't fully charged when he goes in to look at them, he'll have them charge them and come back the next day (it's only 3-4 miles from his house).  I am very sensitive to smells - someone smoked in the garage of our current house (which we didn't spend much time in on the walkthrough in January in IL) and 9 years later I can still smell it, especially in the summer.

myhotrs

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #123 on: April 13, 2016, 10:56:29 PM »
My 2012 Leaf has lost 3 bars, I'm at 30,000 in hot Los Angeles. Its a lease so I never took it easy on the battery always charge to full and only use trickle charger.

One more bar and I get a new battery (though I only have 8 months left on my lease)

forummm

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #124 on: April 14, 2016, 09:15:28 AM »
You should find out how many battery capacity bars the cars have.

And having lost a few bars is not necessarily bad. If it's lost 4 and still under warranty, that's actually good because you'd get a brand new 2016 model battery (which is supposed to be very resistant to heat-related losses). But if it's down 2, you might be cramped in the short run for range (since you mentioned range being an issue) and may not get to the 4th bar loss before the warranty ends. Just something to be aware of.

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #125 on: April 17, 2016, 06:26:34 PM »
Or buy something with a competent battery thermal management system.

Which would be literally anything but the Leaf.

http://syonyk.blogspot.com/2016/01/electric-car-battery-packs-and-longevity.html


forummm

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #126 on: April 18, 2016, 09:27:43 AM »
Or buy something with a competent battery thermal management system.

Which would be literally anything but the Leaf.

http://syonyk.blogspot.com/2016/01/electric-car-battery-packs-and-longevity.html


It's a tradeoff. TMS requires added cost and uses more energy (i.e. shortens your range). If you live in Phoenix, it's more valuable to have a little A/C for your battery. If you live in a moderate climate, the added cost probably isn't worth it. And you don't really have a lot of options. Teslas are too expensive for most people. And pretty much all the other EVs are more expensive than the Leaf or not widely available. I'm OK with accepting some battery degradation. Eventually I'll get a new battery--hopefully when they are much cheaper/lighter/degrade more slowly, etc.

sol

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #127 on: April 18, 2016, 10:57:12 AM »
I did a lot of reading about battery degradation before I bought my Leaf, and I decided it wasn't a relevant issue in my climate.  I fully expect the battery to slowly lose range over time, and I'll probably have to replace it about ten years from now. 

I also expect the cost of that replacement in ten years to be much lower than the $5.5k it is today (thanks Elon!), but even if batteries don't get any cheaper I will still have come out way ahead of buying any other EV.

If I lived in Arizona out Florida I might have made a different decision, or even decided to buy Nissan's battery protection plan.  It guarantees you a lifetime of free battery replacements for $100/month.  So far almost nobody has taken them up on that offer, though, because the batteries have held up remarkably well despite the doomsayers like syonyk.

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #128 on: April 18, 2016, 02:06:06 PM »
I emailed a stealership today. They have a 2012 Leaf with 22K miles marked down to $7750. Been on the market for nearly 3 months. They have reduced the price 3 times now. Unfortunately it's also 180 miles away. Delivery quotes were a little less than $300. I am afraid between the fees and the delivery charge, it will kill the deal for me. Never hurts to try though.

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #129 on: April 18, 2016, 02:16:23 PM »
I emailed a stealership today. They have a 2012 Leaf with 22K miles marked down to $7750. Been on the market for nearly 3 months. They have reduced the price 3 times now. Unfortunately it's also 180 miles away. Delivery quotes were a little less than $300. I am afraid between the fees and the delivery charge, it will kill the deal for me. Never hurts to try though.

You should totally be able to move this car yourself pretty cheap. You have a couple options.

1) Borrow a friends' car with tow hitch and a Uhaul trailer. Drive it there and pick it up. Drive back.  360 miles RT@10 miles per gallon = 36 gallons X $2.50 = $90.  Trailer rental $20. 

2) Drive your current car there with a friend and let them drive home while you "slow" drive back.  I would think you could go 40 miles per charge and lookup the quickcharge stations. Read a book or hang out with our friend as you come back while charging.  360 miles RT @ 20 miles per gallon = 18 gallons X $2.50 = $45.

Alas, my Leaf purchase is now delayed to September, when DS will get his license.  But, it's because we decided to pay off our house this month instead with extra cash we had on hand.  We'll need those 5 months to save up our cash again. 

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #130 on: April 18, 2016, 02:33:53 PM »
Uhaul likely won't let you tow a car with a car. You'd need a friend with a truck.

They're picky about things like tow ratings.

MasterStache

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #131 on: April 19, 2016, 07:00:33 AM »
I emailed a stealership today. They have a 2012 Leaf with 22K miles marked down to $7750. Been on the market for nearly 3 months. They have reduced the price 3 times now. Unfortunately it's also 180 miles away. Delivery quotes were a little less than $300. I am afraid between the fees and the delivery charge, it will kill the deal for me. Never hurts to try though.

You should totally be able to move this car yourself pretty cheap. You have a couple options.

1) Borrow a friends' car with tow hitch and a Uhaul trailer. Drive it there and pick it up. Drive back.  360 miles RT@10 miles per gallon = 36 gallons X $2.50 = $90.  Trailer rental $20. 

2) Drive your current car there with a friend and let them drive home while you "slow" drive back.  I would think you could go 40 miles per charge and lookup the quickcharge stations. Read a book or hang out with our friend as you come back while charging.  360 miles RT @ 20 miles per gallon = 18 gallons X $2.50 = $45.

Alas, my Leaf purchase is now delayed to September, when DS will get his license.  But, it's because we decided to pay off our house this month instead with extra cash we had on hand.  We'll need those 5 months to save up our cash again.

Unfortunately there isn't one charging station in my state. So driving it back is out of the question. U-Haul tow dolly is $45, before fees and taxes. Add in the fuel charges and extra money for borrowing a truck that can haul a car and we are well over $100 now. I actually don't know anyone that owns a big enough truck/SUV that can haul another car. So I would have to rent. When all is said and done I don't think I would be saving a whole lot of money. And it is an entire day spent driving.

I appreciate the feedback, but I think the auto transport would save me a lot of time and headache.

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #132 on: April 19, 2016, 08:12:41 AM »
Should have bought a TDI. They are dirt cheap right now with the "dieselgate scandal". I average 60mpg and with diesel around $2.02 that is roughly $.03 a mile with a 600 mile range =).

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #133 on: April 19, 2016, 09:03:05 AM »
But Naaawwwwwwx!

:p

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #134 on: April 19, 2016, 09:19:25 AM »
Should have bought a TDI. They are dirt cheap right now with the "dieselgate scandal". I average 60mpg and with diesel around $2.02 that is roughly $.03 a mile with a 600 mile range =).

I had a bad experience with a VW Jetta. Great vehicle until I hit about 100K miles and everything under the sun started failing on the car. Won't buy VW again.

myhotrs

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #135 on: April 19, 2016, 11:04:44 AM »
VW's poor quality is legendary. The beauty of pure EVs is the lack of moving parts. You're more likely to have an interior malfunction than powertrain (looking at you Bolt). I've literally not had a single issue with my 4 year old Leaf, though I'm only at 30k miles.

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #136 on: April 19, 2016, 11:52:04 AM »
Sorry if I am hijacking your thread Sol, but I heard back from the stealership. Out the door price inc. taxes, fees, title is $8600. Doesn't seem too bad for a 2012 with 24K miles. I am still questioning them about battery status, vehicle report and I have to pay for transport. And I asked for a breakdown of all the cost. I am not in any hurry to buy a car. But they might be in a hurry to sell. They have 3 in stock and this one has been on the market for nearly 3 months.   

sol

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #137 on: April 19, 2016, 06:24:23 PM »
Sorry if I am hijacking your thread Sol,

Not at all.  You're actually "Buying a Nissan Leaf" and I'm not, so this thread is now yours to use and abuse as you see fit.

Quote
Out the door price inc. taxes, fees, title is $8600. Doesn't seem too bad for a 2012 with 24K miles.

Mine worked out to $8850 after $1050 in taxes and fees, and I had to go to the DMV myself, and it had more miles on it.  Unless the car you're looking at has some cosmetic problem (stained upholstery, scratched paint, etc) then I think it's a fair price.  It's the extra $$ for transport costs that complicates things for you.


MasterStache

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #138 on: April 19, 2016, 07:14:48 PM »
Sorry if I am hijacking your thread Sol,

Not at all.  You're actually "Buying a Nissan Leaf" and I'm not, so this thread is now yours to use and abuse as you see fit.

Quote
Out the door price inc. taxes, fees, title is $8600. Doesn't seem too bad for a 2012 with 24K miles.

Mine worked out to $8850 after $1050 in taxes and fees, and I had to go to the DMV myself, and it had more miles on it.  Unless the car you're looking at has some cosmetic problem (stained upholstery, scratched paint, etc) then I think it's a fair price.  It's the extra $$ for transport costs that complicates things for you.

Yep sounded like a good deal. Found out the car has been in a wreck and suffered frame damage. Back to square one.

forummm

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #139 on: April 20, 2016, 10:00:08 AM »
Sorry if I am hijacking your thread Sol,

Not at all.  You're actually "Buying a Nissan Leaf" and I'm not, so this thread is now yours to use and abuse as you see fit.

Quote
Out the door price inc. taxes, fees, title is $8600. Doesn't seem too bad for a 2012 with 24K miles.

Mine worked out to $8850 after $1050 in taxes and fees, and I had to go to the DMV myself, and it had more miles on it.  Unless the car you're looking at has some cosmetic problem (stained upholstery, scratched paint, etc) then I think it's a fair price.  It's the extra $$ for transport costs that complicates things for you.

Yep sounded like a good deal. Found out the car has been in a wreck and suffered frame damage. Back to square one.
Don't know where you are, but there was another thread with one in Seattle

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/mustachian-marketplace/2013-nissan-leaf-base-model-coming-off-lease-in-seattle-area/

MasterStache

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #140 on: April 20, 2016, 10:13:34 AM »
Sorry if I am hijacking your thread Sol,

Not at all.  You're actually "Buying a Nissan Leaf" and I'm not, so this thread is now yours to use and abuse as you see fit.

Quote
Out the door price inc. taxes, fees, title is $8600. Doesn't seem too bad for a 2012 with 24K miles.

Mine worked out to $8850 after $1050 in taxes and fees, and I had to go to the DMV myself, and it had more miles on it.  Unless the car you're looking at has some cosmetic problem (stained upholstery, scratched paint, etc) then I think it's a fair price.  It's the extra $$ for transport costs that complicates things for you.

Yep sounded like a good deal. Found out the car has been in a wreck and suffered frame damage. Back to square one.
Don't know where you are, but there was another thread with one in Seattle

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/mustachian-marketplace/2013-nissan-leaf-base-model-coming-off-lease-in-seattle-area/

Thanks, unfortunately I am about 2300 miles away (Ohio). Shipping is about $900.

forummm

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #141 on: April 20, 2016, 10:34:01 AM »
Do you have a relative you trust in an area with more Leaf availability that's closer? They could complete the purchase for you and get it shipped off. Maybe you can get a discount on the car price to cover the shipping.

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #142 on: April 20, 2016, 10:36:41 AM »
All my relatives live near me. My son's biological grandparents do live in Texas. So that may be an option to look into. I have a great relationship with them.   

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #143 on: April 20, 2016, 10:58:17 AM »
It might not be as cheap as shipping it, but you can rent a truck and tow dolly from U-Haul and drive out to pick it up if you don't have any friends with trucks.

... seriously, though, no friends with trucks willing to go pick up a car for gas/diesel cost and a few six packs?  Everyone needs some of those friends.  Or to be that guy. ;)

couponvan

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #144 on: April 20, 2016, 06:37:25 PM »
BeginnerStash and I should buy cars in CA and drive them to IL/OH together without towing. There's safety in numbers, right!

That being said, there's a guy who wants to move his stuff to CA. I am sorely tempted to have him drive my old minivan to CA with his stuff for $500 - I could trailer my leaf home (I have a towing package, and if it will tie a boat it will tow a leaf) and make money too. Timing is everything!

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #145 on: April 20, 2016, 08:04:25 PM »
Actually, what there probably is, is a market for hauling 3-4 Leafs at a time into areas with none to sell.

One of those 3 car trailers and a decent truck will work just fine, and there's clearly at least some market.

MasterStache

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #146 on: April 21, 2016, 05:59:20 AM »
BeginnerStash and I should buy cars in CA and drive them to IL/OH together without towing. There's safety in numbers, right!

That being said, there's a guy who wants to move his stuff to CA. I am sorely tempted to have him drive my old minivan to CA with his stuff for $500 - I could trailer my leaf home (I have a towing package, and if it will tie a boat it will tow a leaf) and make money too. Timing is everything!

Sounds like a plan. You just have to convince my wife that I can leave for a few days. Good luck! My co-worker does have a sister who lives in Malibu.

forummm

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #147 on: April 22, 2016, 08:31:19 AM »
BeginnerStash and I should buy cars in CA and drive them to IL/OH together without towing. There's safety in numbers, right!

That being said, there's a guy who wants to move his stuff to CA. I am sorely tempted to have him drive my old minivan to CA with his stuff for $500 - I could trailer my leaf home (I have a towing package, and if it will tie a boat it will tow a leaf) and make money too. Timing is everything!

I think Leafs need to be towed with all 4 wheels on the trailer. Just check into it before making plans. I looked into it once and the flatbed U-Haul trailer wasn't too expensive ($150 IIRC).

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #148 on: April 23, 2016, 03:10:57 PM »
They're butt draggers. Can't imagine they'd care about being towed with the rear rolling. That's all the rear wheels do anyway.

forummm

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Re: Buying a Nissan Leaf
« Reply #149 on: April 25, 2016, 09:52:32 AM »
They're butt draggers. Can't imagine they'd care about being towed with the rear rolling. That's all the rear wheels do anyway.
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1055733_has-your-electric-car-stopped-working-flatbed-it-dont-tow

I haven't really studied the issue, but Nissan recommends against that. However, it may be the case that you'll be fine. Although this says to leave the car on and in neutral.