Businesses that try to screw you out of petty change

[blackomen]

I'm not sure if a lot of you are this way but I have a strong dislike for businesses that use deceptive practices to screw you out of petty change.  If they screwed hundreds or thousands of dollars out of you (and probably others as well), I'm sure there will be a class action lawsuit very soon.  But it's a bit difficult to describe this phenomenon that I've unfortunately been seeing more and more of in recent years without using an example.

So here's my most recent example:

In Texas, you have to sign a contract with an electricity provider.  There are hundreds that you can choose from (on a site like powertochoose.org) and often times, you save a lot more money by jumping from provider to provider every, say, 6 months.  Earlier this year, I found a provider (which shall remain nameless) with a relatively good deal so I decided to switch to them as my previous electricity provider contract was expiring.  I tried to sign up online, but they require me to enter a credit card number for autopay in order for them to honor that rate.  Fair enough, I enter it but my application was still denied and I'm asked to call a representative.  I call the representative and they ask me to provide my credit card number for autopay in order to get the best rates and I did and I was approved.

A month later, I receive an email from them that my electricity was about to be shut off for non-payment.  I go onto the website and promptly pay the bill before it gets shut off.  I entered the exact same credit card I used when signing up over the phone a month ago and it worked with no issues and updated the autopay to use that card.  It seems like the guy that I gave my credit card number to hadn't entered it right or something.

The next month, I receive another email that autopay has failed yet again.  Unfortunately, this time, they tacked on a late fee and I didn't want to risk getting my electricity shut off so I paid it all manually including the late fee.  I tried calling their customer service but kept getting directed to a mailbox and couldn't speak to an agent about this.  I spent several hours trying to reach someone until I was able to reach someone over the customer service chat.  I was outraged with them because they kept gaslighting me about my payment not going through even though the credit card # I was using was saved by Google Wallet and has worked fine with every other merchant.  To me, it seemed like they were purposely making my autopay fail and trying to make it seem like it was my fault and charge a late fee for it.  I persisted with the agent until he decided to refund the late fee as a one time courtesy.

I wasted like 3 hours of my life for a $20 late fee which sounds like less than minimum wage while I made over $100K/yr at my job but I didn't care about the money itself.  I felt that I had a responsibility to call out and fight back against deceptive businesses like this who use these unethical and possibly illegal practices to extract more money than they deserve out of unsuspecting customers.  A $20 late fee here and there will add up esp with hundreds or thousands of customers and many of their customers might be minimum wage workers or single moms where an unnecessary $20 loss could have more serious implications.

Anyone else this way as well?

[lutorm]

There's only one way to fight back -- cancel your account on the spot.

[blackomen]

There's only one way to fight back -- cancel your account on the spot.

Then I'll be without power, no thanks

[dandarc]

There's only one way to fight back -- cancel your account on the spot.

Then I'll be without power, no thanks

Surely you could switch to one of the hundreds of others?

[blackomen]

There's only one way to fight back -- cancel your account on the spot.

Then I'll be without power, no thanks

Surely you could switch to one of the hundreds of others?

I signed a contract that won't expire for a couple of months and there will be a $150 early cancellation fee.

[LaineyAZ]

I thought you were going to describe an experience with a tow truck company.  They demand payment in cash in an odd-numbered amount and then claim they have no change.  Of course customers don't know this and don't have exact cash anyway, so they're told to go to an onsite ATM which of course only pays out in $20s.  The tow truck company is pocketing extra cash from almost every customer.

They also fail to let you know that you don't have to pay right then but can get your car keys and get a bill to pay later (at least in the town where this happened to a family member.)
Scammers, all of them.

[ATtiny85]

I have called and disputed some charges and have had mixed results. I feel your struggle and despise when it is very clearly a slimy practice (as L AZ just shared about tow companies).

The one thing I try to do is make sure they don’t get me twice for anything I can directly control.

Keep up the good fight!

[GuitarStv]

I thought you were going to describe an experience with a tow truck company.  They demand payment in cash in an odd-numbered amount and then claim they have no change.  Of course customers don't know this and don't have exact cash anyway, so they're told to go to an onsite ATM which of course only pays out in $20s.  The tow truck company is pocketing extra cash from almost every customer.

They also fail to let you know that you don't have to pay right then but can get your car keys and get a bill to pay later (at least in the town where this happened to a family member.)
Scammers, all of them.

Tow truck drivers around Toronto are all mobbed up.  We're always getting stores about drugs busts, gang violence, and gun offenses related to tow truck drivers.

[big_owl]

There's only one way to fight back -- cancel your account on the spot.

Then I'll be without power, no thanks

Surely you could switch to one of the hundreds of others?

I signed a contract that won't expire for a couple of months and there will be a $150 early cancellation fee.

Ok, so you're in a position of absolutely zero power.   So what are you going to do other than whine on an internet forum?   

[blackomen]

There's only one way to fight back -- cancel your account on the spot.

Then I'll be without power, no thanks

Surely you could switch to one of the hundreds of others?

I signed a contract that won't expire for a couple of months and there will be a $150 early cancellation fee.

Ok, so you're in a position of absolutely zero power.   So what are you going to do other than whine on an internet forum?

You tell me

[G-dog]

There's only one way to fight back -- cancel your account on the spot.

Then I'll be without power, no thanks

Surely you could switch to one of the hundreds of others?

I signed a contract that won't expire for a couple of months and there will be a $150 early cancellation fee.

Ok, so you're in a position of absolutely zero power.   So what are you going to do other than whine on an internet forum?

You tell me

Contact Better Business Bureau (meh)
Contact your state’s Attorney General
Contact your credit card company re: fraud (and to see if they see attempts to charge your autopay when the bill is due)
Contact your state and / or federal representatives regarding the fraud
Contact an attorney about legal options

[blackomen]

There's only one way to fight back -- cancel your account on the spot.

Then I'll be without power, no thanks

Surely you could switch to one of the hundreds of others?

I signed a contract that won't expire for a couple of months and there will be a $150 early cancellation fee.

Ok, so you're in a position of absolutely zero power.   So what are you going to do other than whine on an internet forum?

You tell me

Contact Better Business Bureau (meh)
Contact your state’s Attorney General
Contact your credit card company re: fraud (and to see if they see attempts to charge your autopay when the bill is due)
Contact your state and / or federal representatives regarding the fraud
Contact an attorney about legal options

No need for any of those now

[lutorm]

There's only one way to fight back -- cancel your account on the spot.

Then I'll be without power, no thanks

Surely you could switch to one of the hundreds of others?

I signed a contract that won't expire for a couple of months and there will be a $150 early cancellation fee.

Ok, so you're in a position of absolutely zero power.   So what are you going to do other than whine on an internet forum?

You tell me

You just have to decide whether not losing $150 is more important than standing up.

[blackomen]

There's only one way to fight back -- cancel your account on the spot.

Then I'll be without power, no thanks

Surely you could switch to one of the hundreds of others?

I signed a contract that won't expire for a couple of months and there will be a $150 early cancellation fee.

Ok, so you're in a position of absolutely zero power.   So what are you going to do other than whine on an internet forum?

You tell me

You just have to decide whether not losing $150 is more important than standing up.

Why is that?

[lutorm]

There's only one way to fight back -- cancel your account on the spot.

Then I'll be without power, no thanks

Surely you could switch to one of the hundreds of others?

I signed a contract that won't expire for a couple of months and there will be a $150 early cancellation fee.

Ok, so you're in a position of absolutely zero power.   So what are you going to do other than whine on an internet forum?

You tell me

You just have to decide whether not losing $150 is more important than standing up.

Why is that?

Why did you post?

[blackomen]

There's only one way to fight back -- cancel your account on the spot.

Then I'll be without power, no thanks

Surely you could switch to one of the hundreds of others?

I signed a contract that won't expire for a couple of months and there will be a $150 early cancellation fee.

Ok, so you're in a position of absolutely zero power.   So what are you going to do other than whine on an internet forum?

You tell me

You just have to decide whether not losing $150 is more important than standing up.

Why is that?

Why did you post?

Define "post"

[Tempname23]

This is minor but it was irritating. A while back when we were have a coin shortage, our morning breakfast group had a problem at a McDonalds. A couple of us got a meal for $4.12 and because they didn't have change they collected $5  and gave no change, they said the difference will go to Ronald McDonald house. So two of were over charged $0.88 and another $0.76. Now our whole group has the funds and the  amount of money was really not the issue. So, this and couple of other issues we decided to start having breakfast at Tudor's Biscuit World, the service is fabulous, and we are all happy with the change.  The waitresses are constantly coming around with a coffee pot offering us more coffee. A little joking comment I made poking fun at us old guys, to a waitress we all have come to know, I told they should not come around so often to offer us coffee, because, when you do, we stop talking and then when you leave we have no idea what we were talking about.

[Sibley]

Blackomen, you sound like a troll. Not attractive.

So, you got stuck with an incompetent company. Now you know it. It sucks, but here's your options: deal with it or pay $150 to get out of the contract.

Put it on your calendar, every month, to go pay the electric bill. As soon as your contract is up, switch. It's not actually that difficult.

[sonofsven]

Blackomen, I hate it too, and it pisses me off when I have to deal with it, so I try really hard to make sure it doesn't happen.
B of A did that same crap with the late fee, then when I pointed out it was their fault they gave me a courtesy refund, then when they did the same thing the next month, and I asked for another courtesy refund, they said "you seem to have a history of doing this...", lol.
I got rid of them and, sure enough, one year later got a notice of a class action lawsuit in the mail.
What you need to do is pay the bill off early and make sure it is paid before they ever have a chance to hit you with a late fee. And tell them to eff off under your breath while you do it.

[Sugaree]

At least you have some choice in the matter.  We have one of the Southern Companies.  And that's it.  Not only do they not buy back excess solar power, they charge $5/month/kW of panels that you have connected to the grid.  They are trying to make it so that there is no ROI on home solar production (while setting up solar farms for themselves).  The public service commissioner is an elected field and is so deep in the pockets of the power company that she'll never see the light of day. 

[rantk81]

Oh yeah, I've kept a running list of companies that have cheated or screwed me over personally, without making it right.  It's an ever-growing permanent "never do business with again" list.  My younger pre-FIRE self was absolutely enraged at the ~$1000 that AT&T screwed me over for in 2007.  Now I just chalk it up as paying a fee to earn the knowledge of what company to avoid for the rest of my life.

[ATtiny85]

Blackomen, you sound like a troll. Not attractive.

So, you got stuck with an incompetent company. Now you know it. It sucks, but here's your options: deal with it or pay $150 to get out of the contract.

Put it on your calendar, every month, to go pay the electric bill. As soon as your contract is up, switch. It's not actually that difficult.

That’s not fair to me to call Bo a troll. They are frustrated and sharing and venting. You don’t have to go too deep into the post history of a lot of posters to find similar exchanges.

Of course there are some easy fixes, including writing a check, but that doesn’t jibe with trying to hold companies accountable for questionable business practices, which we all should do.

[rantk81]

Blackomen, you sound like a troll. Not attractive.

So, you got stuck with an incompetent company. Now you know it. It sucks, but here's your options: deal with it or pay $150 to get out of the contract.

Put it on your calendar, every month, to go pay the electric bill. As soon as your contract is up, switch. It's not actually that difficult.

That’s not fair to me to call Bo a troll. They are frustrated and sharing and venting.

Agreed. Why gaslight someone who's already feeling like they've been wronged?

[Metalcat]

Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to ignorance or incompetence.

I seriously doubt a company with tons of competition would purposefully prevent your payments from going through to collect an extra $20. But I can fully believe that a company might have glitchy, worthless software that doesn't process pre-authorized payments properly.

If you spent that much time on the phone, so did their staff member.

Late fees, no-show fees, etc, are well known to be account-killers, meaning the moment you charge someone one of these fees, you will likely lose then as a client forever AND they tend to go apeshit and use up customer service time.

I am perfectly willing to assume corporate greed, I just think that this example is far better explained by incompetence than greed, because in terms of greed, it's a terrible scheme.

As for what you should do about it, well you've already done it.

I can't tell you how many hours I've been on hold in the past year. It's unbelievably annoying and there's often not much that can come from it.

I recently had a very, very bad experience with an internet provider that resulted in no less than 4 cumulative hours on the phone. I had no choice though, I was only in town for 6 weeks and only one local provider would provide internet without a 1 year contract, and my DH works from home.

Did that suck? Absolutely.
Would I get internet with that company again? Yeah, probably if I was in the city again for a few months because they're my only option, lol.

You should hear the story of the bank that erroneously put my 6 figure student loan into default, which took several years to solve and then later almost fucked my ability to get a mortgage because although the loan had been paid off for years, they put a mystery lien on, well nothing, but it showed up as existing on my credit report, but because it was attached to nothing, no one could confirm what it was for, so the lender couldn't lend without knowing what the lien was for and the bank couldn't explain what it was for because with the loan long paid off, there was no record of it anymore. I only got that solved because I personally knew a VP at the bank who was willing to write a letter explaining what happened. He was a few months from retirement.

That one stupid error has caused me many, many hours of screaming phone calls with call centers to get absolutely nowhere in solving the problem. I mean, easily over 100hrs until I finally just networked my way to getting connected with executives at the bank.

I swore I would never, ever do business with that bank ever again.

Except! I bought a house in a very remote location and they were one of the only banks who would finance it. Ha!
So just 2 months after the horrible debacle with the mortgage for my last property almost falling apart because of this horrid bank, I now have a mortgage with them on the house I'm currently in.

*Shrug* sometimes businesses suck, and sometimes you waste A LOT of time fighting for reasonable, bare minimum level treatment, and sometimes you are stuck still doing business with them.

Life can be an asshole sometimes.

[blackomen]

Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to ignorance or incompetence.

I seriously doubt a company with tons of competition would purposefully prevent your payments from going through to collect an extra $20. But I can fully believe that a company might have glitchy, worthless software that doesn't process pre-authorized payments properly.

If you spent that much time on the phone, so did their staff member.

Late fees, no-show fees, etc, are well known to be account-killers, meaning the moment you charge someone one of these fees, you will likely lose then as a client forever AND they tend to go apeshit and use up customer service time.

I am perfectly willing to assume corporate greed, I just think that this example is far better explained by incompetence than greed, because in terms of greed, it's a terrible scheme.

As for what you should do about it, well you've already done it.

I can't tell you how many hours I've been on hold in the past year. It's unbelievably annoying and there's often not much that can come from it.

I recently had a very, very bad experience with an internet provider that resulted in no less than 4 cumulative hours on the phone. I had no choice though, I was only in town for 6 weeks and only one local provider would provide internet without a 1 year contract, and my DH works from home.

Did that suck? Absolutely.
Would I get internet with that company again? Yeah, probably if I was in the city again for a few months because they're my only option, lol.

You should hear the story of the bank that erroneously put my 6 figure student loan into default, which took several years to solve and then later almost fucked my ability to get a mortgage because although the loan had been paid off for years, they put a mystery lien on, well nothing, but it showed up as existing on my credit report, but because it was attached to nothing, no one could confirm what it was for, so the lender couldn't lend without knowing what the lien was for and the bank couldn't explain what it was for because with the loan long paid off, there was no record of it anymore. I only got that solved because I personally knew a VP at the bank who was willing to write a letter explaining what happened. He was a few months from retirement.

That one stupid error has caused me many, many hours of screaming phone calls with call centers to get absolutely nowhere in solving the problem. I mean, easily over 100hrs until I finally just networked my way to getting connected with executives at the bank.

I swore I would never, ever do business with that bank ever again.

Except! I bought a house in a very remote location and they were one of the only banks who would finance it. Ha!
So just 2 months after the horrible debacle with the mortgage for my last property almost falling apart because of this horrid bank, I now have a mortgage with them on the house I'm currently in.

*Shrug* sometimes businesses suck, and sometimes you waste A LOT of time fighting for reasonable, bare minimum level treatment, and sometimes you are stuck still doing business with them.

Life can be an asshole sometimes.

True, that's a good alternative perspective. I just wonder if I'm crazy for making an example out of a company for these glitches and going out of my way to make things right even if, on a per hour basis, it does not make financial sense. Because what if it happens to someone on less financial footing than I? I feel like I'm fighting to make things right for everyone even if the mistake was minor. Whether it's malice or incompetence, chances are, I'm probably not the only one who was unfairly charged a late fee for a mistake on their part.

[wageslave23]

There is only one take away from this situation.  Grown adults with healthy finances don't need to jump through hoops switching providers every year to save a few bucks a month.  Value your time and expect these things to happen.  They shouldn't but they do so figure them into your calculus when you are deciding if it's worth the hassle to seek after any deal. Whether that's switching insurance companies, cable companies, internet providers, banks, credit card companies, etc. As MMM has said, my bullshit threshold has decreased significantly and I'm no longer willing to apply for a new credit card for less than a $500 bonus because of all the potential bs that could go along with it.

[Metalcat]

Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to ignorance or incompetence.

I seriously doubt a company with tons of competition would purposefully prevent your payments from going through to collect an extra $20. But I can fully believe that a company might have glitchy, worthless software that doesn't process pre-authorized payments properly.

If you spent that much time on the phone, so did their staff member.

Late fees, no-show fees, etc, are well known to be account-killers, meaning the moment you charge someone one of these fees, you will likely lose then as a client forever AND they tend to go apeshit and use up customer service time.

I am perfectly willing to assume corporate greed, I just think that this example is far better explained by incompetence than greed, because in terms of greed, it's a terrible scheme.

As for what you should do about it, well you've already done it.

I can't tell you how many hours I've been on hold in the past year. It's unbelievably annoying and there's often not much that can come from it.

I recently had a very, very bad experience with an internet provider that resulted in no less than 4 cumulative hours on the phone. I had no choice though, I was only in town for 6 weeks and only one local provider would provide internet without a 1 year contract, and my DH works from home.

Did that suck? Absolutely.
Would I get internet with that company again? Yeah, probably if I was in the city again for a few months because they're my only option, lol.

You should hear the story of the bank that erroneously put my 6 figure student loan into default, which took several years to solve and then later almost fucked my ability to get a mortgage because although the loan had been paid off for years, they put a mystery lien on, well nothing, but it showed up as existing on my credit report, but because it was attached to nothing, no one could confirm what it was for, so the lender couldn't lend without knowing what the lien was for and the bank couldn't explain what it was for because with the loan long paid off, there was no record of it anymore. I only got that solved because I personally knew a VP at the bank who was willing to write a letter explaining what happened. He was a few months from retirement.

That one stupid error has caused me many, many hours of screaming phone calls with call centers to get absolutely nowhere in solving the problem. I mean, easily over 100hrs until I finally just networked my way to getting connected with executives at the bank.

I swore I would never, ever do business with that bank ever again.

Except! I bought a house in a very remote location and they were one of the only banks who would finance it. Ha!
So just 2 months after the horrible debacle with the mortgage for my last property almost falling apart because of this horrid bank, I now have a mortgage with them on the house I'm currently in.

*Shrug* sometimes businesses suck, and sometimes you waste A LOT of time fighting for reasonable, bare minimum level treatment, and sometimes you are stuck still doing business with them.

Life can be an asshole sometimes.

True, that's a good alternative perspective. I just wonder if I'm crazy for making an example out of a company for these glitches and going out of my way to make things right even if, on a per hour basis, it does not make financial sense. Because what if it happens to someone on less financial footing than I? I feel like I'm fighting to make things right for everyone even if the mistake was minor. Whether it's malice or incompetence, chances are, I'm probably not the only one who was unfairly charged a late fee for a mistake on their part.

You can fight it if you want, and perhaps being one of the many people who do so will prompt the company to fix it's issue because they are losing money on customer service time having to deal with this issue.

So yes, if you want to contribute to the company changing its behaviour, then you will have to invest some time to contribute to making it uncomfortable for them to not do so.

Probably the most effective thing you can do to a business in a competitive market is to publicly shame them on social media with bad reviews. 1 star reviews take a lot of 5 star reviews to bounce back from. And people do look to reviews for guidance, despite the deep flaws with those systems.

Basically, it's up to you how much effort you are willing to put in to try and hold a company accountable for their errors, intentional or otherwise.

I've had a neurologist hold up critical treatment for over 6 months because her admin didn't fax a prescription and the doctor doesn't actually check her messages or do her paperwork. ALL of her online reviews say the same thing, that patients care was interrupted due to avoidable administrative errors and failure on the doctor's part to respond to urgent messages.

For her, I reported her to the regulatory body and provided written testimony against her. I also called her office 40 times a day and had legal letters sent to her by registered mail requiring signature until the problem was resolved.

Some fights are more worth it than others. You have to decide which battles are worth it to you.

[Sibley]

Blackomen, you sound like a troll. Not attractive.

So, you got stuck with an incompetent company. Now you know it. It sucks, but here's your options: deal with it or pay $150 to get out of the contract.

Put it on your calendar, every month, to go pay the electric bill. As soon as your contract is up, switch. It's not actually that difficult.

That’s not fair to me to call Bo a troll. They are frustrated and sharing and venting.

Agreed. Why gaslight someone who's already feeling like they've been wronged?

For the record, I was saying he sounded like a troll not because of the initial post, but because of the very long series of small posts back and forth that ended with OP saying "Define "post" ".

That's not venting, that's being a troll.

[Jon Bon]

There is only one take away from this situation.  Grown adults with healthy finances don't need to jump through hoops switching providers every year to save a few bucks a month.  Value your time and expect these things to happen.  They shouldn't but they do so figure them into your calculus when you are deciding if it's worth the hassle to seek after any deal. Whether that's switching insurance companies, cable companies, internet providers, banks, credit card companies, etc. As MMM has said, my bullshit threshold has decreased significantly and I'm no longer willing to apply for a new credit card for less than a $500 bonus because of all the potential bs that could go along with it.

Fucking ay this. Sure my internet might go up $5 bucks every year, but its not worth my time to fight them and play them off against each other every six months. I don't have time for that bullshit. Its just not worth the return anymore when you get to a certain point.

[okisok]

And here I thought this thread was about all those businesses that want you to 'round up' at the register or donate your loose change. I'm pretty sure that if they even make the donation, they get it as a tax deduction for the company.

One year I saved every receipt where I donated a dollar for homeless pets, veterans, etc and claimed each dollar on my tax refund. Which brings us back to losing time to pettiness and small amounts of money.

[By the River]

And here I thought this thread was about all those businesses that want you to 'round up' at the register or donate your loose change. I'm pretty sure that if they even make the donation, they get it as a tax deduction for the company.

One year I saved every receipt where I donated a dollar for homeless pets, veterans, etc and claimed each dollar on my tax refund. Which brings us back to losing time to pettiness and small amounts of money.

That's what I thought of as well.   Do you want to round up to the next dollar so that the multi-billion dollar company chain can make a tax-deductible contribution?

[coppertop]

And here I thought this thread was about all those businesses that want you to 'round up' at the register or donate your loose change. I'm pretty sure that if they even make the donation, they get it as a tax deduction for the company.

One year I saved every receipt where I donated a dollar for homeless pets, veterans, etc and claimed each dollar on my tax refund. Which brings us back to losing time to pettiness and small amounts of money.

That's what I thought of as well.   Do you want to round up to the next dollar so that the multi-billion dollar company chain can make a tax-deductible contribution?

Yep.  And then there's Dollar Tree, asking customers to buy useless plastic junk at Christmas time to give to the children of parents in the armed forces.  They mark it up to $1.00 (now $1.25), charge the kind customer full price, then "donate" the useless junk to children who surely need something better than plastic crap that's going in the landfill the next week; and probably get some sort of tax deduction on top of their "largesse." 

[sonofsven]

And here I thought this thread was about all those businesses that want you to 'round up' at the register or donate your loose change. I'm pretty sure that if they even make the donation, they get it as a tax deduction for the company.

One year I saved every receipt where I donated a dollar for homeless pets, veterans, etc and claimed each dollar on my tax refund. Which brings us back to losing time to pettiness and small amounts of money.

The one place that I shop at that does that is my local co-op; they give the donations to local non-profits. I would bet that they give all that they take in, and they probably write a nice card tied with artisanal twine as well.

[okisok]

@sonofsven  That is one place I wouldn't mind rounding up! I did snort a bit at 'artisinal twine'.

[BlueHouse]

My remedy for companies that screw you (real or perceived) and you have no power to do anything.

1. Close account when you're able to/contract over/convenient. 
2.  Pay last bill by check, but make it $0.02 MORE than the amount you owe. 
3.  Write something on the check letting them know that they owe you this money and you will charge interest on it if it's more than 30 days due. 
4.  hahaha.  now you've given them your 2 cents and them writing you a check (yes, they must on closed accounts) is an expensive task for them (it's out of the ordinary and it takes a separate procedure). 

I did this to a credit card company that charged me interest for an error that I maintain was their error.  They reversed all fees, but would not (said they could not) reverse interest charges.  It was very low because I never carry a balance anyway, but it was the principal.  When I closed and wrote my peace and included it in with my final check, I did get a response from someone that sounded very human and as if she completely understood my frustration.  It did make me feel like I won.

[gooki]

I signed a contract that won't expire for a couple of months and there will be a $150 early cancellation fee.

A few thoughts here:

1. They breached their side of the contract when they charged you a late fee due to their incompetence. Henceforth the contract is now void.

2. If they're unable to bill your credit card for the monthly fee, how will they bill you the $150 cancellation fee?

3. Charge backs are your friend. Don't waste hours on the phone. Send your requests in writing (email) with a seven day deadline. If they don't fix it, call your credit card company/bank and dispute the charge via a charge back. 30 minutes vs 4 hours.

[HalfDollar]

There is only one take away from this situation.  Grown adults with healthy finances don't need to jump through hoops switching providers every year to save a few bucks a month.  Value your time and expect these things to happen.  They shouldn't but they do so figure them into your calculus when you are deciding if it's worth the hassle to seek after any deal. Whether that's switching insurance companies, cable companies, internet providers, banks, credit card companies, etc. As MMM has said, my bullshit threshold has decreased significantly and I'm no longer willing to apply for a new credit card for less than a $500 bonus because of all the potential bs that could go along with it.

Busy people can use a service that takes an insignificant cut. (I finally used Trim to negotiate down my internet bill and may use them for cell bill.)

[Michael in ABQ]

And here I thought this thread was about all those businesses that want you to 'round up' at the register or donate your loose change. I'm pretty sure that if they even make the donation, they get it as a tax deduction for the company.

One year I saved every receipt where I donated a dollar for homeless pets, veterans, etc and claimed each dollar on my tax refund. Which brings us back to losing time to pettiness and small amounts of money.

That's what I thought of as well.   Do you want to round up to the next dollar so that the multi-billion dollar company chain can make a tax-deductible contribution?

Yep.  And then there's Dollar Tree, asking customers to buy useless plastic junk at Christmas time to give to the children of parents in the armed forces.  They mark it up to $1.00 (now $1.25), charge the kind customer full price, then "donate" the useless junk to children who surely need something better than plastic crap that's going in the landfill the next week; and probably get some sort of tax deduction on top of their "largesse."

We got literal boxes of donated cheap Dollar Tree stuff every year around Christmas in the National Guard. The family readiness group would try to give it away but, in my unit, it tended to be young single guys without kids so not many took anything. I would grab a few things for my kids, but it was stuff that I knew we would be throwing away within the week. All of it was presumably clearance items as there would be dozens of the same item. I sure hope no one was actually paying for any of that stuff to be donated.

[clarkfan1979]

The lowest cost providers typically have the worst service and reviews. I try to avoid them. I pay slightly more to save myself time.

I have actually had some experience with larger transactions. When I got married 10 years ago, we got married at a hotel and I told the hotel manager that we needed a 50 room block. They responded with, "no problem" When it was time to sign the contract, it only said 10 rooms. I asked why it only said 10 rooms and their response was, "Once you fill the 10 rooms, we will then give you 10 more rooms. We don't like to provide 50 rooms all at once, because from past experience, not all 50 will get used for weddings." We sent the invitations out and all 10 rooms were gone immediately. I called for another 10 rooms and the hotel manager acted like he didn't know what I was talking about. He said, "The contract says 10 rooms, I don't know why you are asking for more than 10 rooms. They can stay at another hotel. There are many hotels that are very close" Lesson learned. Get it in writing.

The last two houses that I bought, the title company overcharged me. After closing, I was legally entitled to a $1500 refund and a $500 refund because they legally couldn't charge that much. I guess there are caps set by the state. What could I do? Not buy the house and lose my earnest money?

When I refinanced my first house in 2009, the numbers were off by about $550. I called my mortgage broker and she told me to "not worry about it." I persisted and she finally found out that I was shorted $550 at the closing. No apology.

The amount of money going into my retirement account was off by about $200/month (September to December). I brought it to the attention of HR and they said the process will automatically take care of itself. This was around late December. It was February and no correction. I was told to be patient and I refused. I called around and found out that my local HR needed to fill out paperwork for it to change. My local HR finally figured it out and did the paperwork and then apologized. The extra $1600 was deposited into my 401a in April 2020, which kind of worked out because the market was temporarily down.   

[JoJo]

banks that screw you out of x days of interest when you close an account are BS

[coppertop]

And here I thought this thread was about all those businesses that want you to 'round up' at the register or donate your loose change. I'm pretty sure that if they even make the donation, they get it as a tax deduction for the company.

One year I saved every receipt where I donated a dollar for homeless pets, veterans, etc and claimed each dollar on my tax refund. Which brings us back to losing time to pettiness and small amounts of money.

That's what I thought of as well.   Do you want to round up to the next dollar so that the multi-billion dollar company chain can make a tax-deductible contribution?

Yep.  And then there's Dollar Tree, asking customers to buy useless plastic junk at Christmas time to give to the children of parents in the armed forces.  They mark it up to $1.00 (now $1.25), charge the kind customer full price, then "donate" the useless junk to children who surely need something better than plastic crap that's going in the landfill the next week; and probably get some sort of tax deduction on top of their "largesse."

We got literal boxes of donated cheap Dollar Tree stuff every year around Christmas in the National Guard. The family readiness group would try to give it away but, in my unit, it tended to be young single guys without kids so not many took anything. I would grab a few things for my kids, but it was stuff that I knew we would be throwing away within the week. All of it was presumably clearance items as there would be dozens of the same item. I sure hope no one was actually paying for any of that stuff to be donated.

Dollar Tree definitely asks customers at the register to buy toys from them at Christmas to donate to the children of the military.  So, yes, someone is paying for that stuff to be donated.  I have always declined, but I have seen plenty of people agree to donate a dollar or more at the register...mostly elderly people.  Yes, it's just $1 (now $1.25). But DT makes money on every person that they guilt into donating that money at the register, so it probably adds up to a significant amount.  They make a profit on those items, then "donate" them.

[Tempname23]

Years ago, sprint came out with a $36 a month plan vs the the $39 a month plan I had with someone else. I thought great I will reward them for lowering prices. So, I get it all switched over and the first bill, $36 for the service plus taxes and other things, but the kicker was, the bill include two lines of additional Sprint charges, actually said "additional Sprint charges". These totaled $6, so my bill ended up $3 higher than with my old company. Near the end of my service, I had some billing issue and I was mad and told the receptionist about the additional Sprint charges issue and she immediately settled my account for a reduced amount, it made me think they had some regulatory issue with those charges and they wanted to avoid any further issues. I never found any related info about the overcharges on the internet.

[rmorris50]

The number and types of places now demanding tips seems to have increased greatly. And the cashiers are very pushy - “please be sure to answer the question on the screen”. These small food and convenience stores fight so hard to not increase listed prices and wages they pay, and instead push the tipping system. I just include the 20% tip and move on with life, but I do get annoyed in the moment when paying. I’d rather they just increase the listed price and pay a higher wage to their employees.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tempname23]

My breakfast group used to eat at a McDonolds, we were becoming unhappy, greasy floors, worn out seating, etc, but the last straw came when they were having problems getting enough change. A couple of us ordered meals that cost, say $4.32 and $5.12,they charged $5.00 and $6.00, saying they would give the change to Ronald McDonold. We went to another restaurant and never looked back. btw, Tudors Biscuit World is where we went, our local one has fabulous service, they take very good care of us.

[wageslave23]

The number and types of places now demanding tips seems to have increased greatly. And the cashiers are very pushy - “please be sure to answer the question on the screen”. These small food and convenience stores fight so hard to not increase listed prices and wages they pay, and instead push the tipping system. I just include the 20% tip and move on with life, but I do get annoyed in the moment when paying. I’d rather they just increase the listed price and pay a higher wage to their employees.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Never feel pressured to tip. If anything tip less than you would have if someone is pushy about. And don't go back to places that ask for tips for doing their job.

[rmorris50]

The number and types of places now demanding tips seems to have increased greatly. And the cashiers are very pushy - “please be sure to answer the question on the screen”. These small food and convenience stores fight so hard to not increase listed prices and wages they pay, and instead push the tipping system. I just include the 20% tip and move on with life, but I do get annoyed in the moment when paying. I’d rather they just increase the listed price and pay a higher wage to their employees.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Never feel pressured to tip. If anything tip less than you would have if someone is pushy about. And don't go back to places that ask for tips for doing their job.

Trying not to feel pressure to tip turns into “don’t be a cheap ahole” in my mind. I mean the extra 2 dollars for the sub will have no impact on my well being going forward, and it helps them. But I’m much less likely to go back, or will frequent the place much less than I otherwise would.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[blackomen]

The number and types of places now demanding tips seems to have increased greatly. And the cashiers are very pushy - “please be sure to answer the question on the screen”. These small food and convenience stores fight so hard to not increase listed prices and wages they pay, and instead push the tipping system. I just include the 20% tip and move on with life, but I do get annoyed in the moment when paying. I’d rather they just increase the listed price and pay a higher wage to their employees.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Don't want to sidetrack too much from my original discussion but this has been a pet peeve of mine where they ask for tips at a place without table service (like buying ice cream at the counter where they make it for you right there) and usually before you've even received the product.

However, if I'm a regular there and I've really love it (hence I've come back for the N-th time), I'll certainly tip.  But it doesn't make any sense to solicit a tip from me before I've even tried it for the first time.  If it's great, I'll tip the next time I come back and give you the tip you deserve which I won't know what it should be beforehand.

[Villanelle]

And here I thought this thread was about all those businesses that want you to 'round up' at the register or donate your loose change. I'm pretty sure that if they even make the donation, they get it as a tax deduction for the company.

One year I saved every receipt where I donated a dollar for homeless pets, veterans, etc and claimed each dollar on my tax refund. Which brings us back to losing time to pettiness and small amounts of money.

That's what I thought of as well.   Do you want to round up to the next dollar so that the multi-billion dollar company chain can make a tax-deductible contribution?

Yep.  And then there's Dollar Tree, asking customers to buy useless plastic junk at Christmas time to give to the children of parents in the armed forces.  They mark it up to $1.00 (now $1.25), charge the kind customer full price, then "donate" the useless junk to children who surely need something better than plastic crap that's going in the landfill the next week; and probably get some sort of tax deduction on top of their "largesse."

We got literal boxes of donated cheap Dollar Tree stuff every year around Christmas in the National Guard. The family readiness group would try to give it away but, in my unit, it tended to be young single guys without kids so not many took anything. I would grab a few things for my kids, but it was stuff that I knew we would be throwing away within the week. All of it was presumably clearance items as there would be dozens of the same item. I sure hope no one was actually paying for any of that stuff to be donated.

Dollar Tree definitely asks customers at the register to buy toys from them at Christmas to donate to the children of the military.  So, yes, someone is paying for that stuff to be donated.  I have always declined, but I have seen plenty of people agree to donate a dollar or more at the register...mostly elderly people.  Yes, it's just $1 (now $1.25). But DT makes money on every person that they guilt into donating that money at the register, so it probably adds up to a significant amount.  They make a profit on those items, then "donate" them.

This scam is like the wreaths at Arlington National Cemetery (and others), Wreaths Across America. Some brilliant company created this campaign to have a wreath on every grave.  Then they *sell* those wreaths.  Yes, the family that owns the wreath maker is the same family that runs the chairty, and of course they source the wreaths from... themselves.  Every year, starting in the fall, my FB feed (which has many strong military ties) is ful of requests to donate to this great cause.  If anyone says anything negative about it, they are the asshole who doesn't want dead soldiers to be remembered at Christmas.  Meanwhile the wreath-maker is raking it in, hand over fist.    (A small portion of each wreath-donation amount does go to charities like BSA and the VFW.)

Technically, the non-profit accepts bids, but last I dig into it, there was exactly one bidder that met their "standards", and of course it was their own wreath company. 

It's the same with things like "buy a toy for the troops".  We will sell you and profit from this toy, that we send to troops who probably don't want it.  There's an MLM that sells children's books that pushes hard for "books for military families". Books that they, of course, are more than happy to sell you.

[BlueHouse]

This scam is like the wreaths at Arlington National Cemetery (and others), Wreaths Across America. Some brilliant company created this campaign to have a wreath on every grave.  Then they *sell* those wreaths.  Yes, the family that owns the wreath maker is the same family that runs the chairty, and of course they source the wreaths from... themselves.  Every year, starting in the fall, my FB feed (which has many strong military ties) is ful of requests to donate to this great cause.  If anyone says anything negative about it, they are the asshole who doesn't want dead soldiers to be remembered at Christmas.  Meanwhile the wreath-maker is raking it in, hand over fist.    (A small portion of each wreath-donation amount does go to charities like BSA and the VFW.)

Technically, the non-profit accepts bids, but last I dig into it, there was exactly one bidder that met their "standards", and of course it was their own wreath company. 

Wreaths across America does seem to have a conflict, but they disclose the relationships and release their tax returns as required.  According to this article,

"the Worcester family’s history. They filled trucks with thousands wreaths to place on graves at Arlington for 15 years, without fanfare or financial support, before the nonprofit was even founded. The nonprofit was then founded in response to a call from the general public to expand the effort."

I dunno, even though 3/4 of every dollar donated goes to the for-profit wreath company (and more goes to family members as board members of the charity), it doesn't feel like a complete scam to me.   


https://www.yahoo.com/news/donate-wreaths-across-america-lesson-003930549.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAJnj3qupGtQo9IRywfrrtbBQKu5Fq74QdVTguSlDDCTkKlzY0GlpjALyb0lOEIvSGd6KXW0Ouaqvh4Gw_w20uovY5l6jKhN3iZ2opzK2R5Dq-MKsu1gQtmOJ6kECBDeh_ylrbUcaRvBOXZEs1olxGDPP-M22QSmRNsRwN4DvAcRQ

[Turtle]

And here I thought this thread was about all those businesses that want you to 'round up' at the register or donate your loose change. I'm pretty sure that if they even make the donation, they get it as a tax deduction for the company.

One year I saved every receipt where I donated a dollar for homeless pets, veterans, etc and claimed each dollar on my tax refund. Which brings us back to losing time to pettiness and small amounts of money.

That's what I thought of as well.   Do you want to round up to the next dollar so that the multi-billion dollar company chain can make a tax-deductible contribution?

Yep.  And then there's Dollar Tree, asking customers to buy useless plastic junk at Christmas time to give to the children of parents in the armed forces.  They mark it up to $1.00 (now $1.25), charge the kind customer full price, then "donate" the useless junk to children who surely need something better than plastic crap that's going in the landfill the next week; and probably get some sort of tax deduction on top of their "largesse."

We got literal boxes of donated cheap Dollar Tree stuff every year around Christmas in the National Guard. The family readiness group would try to give it away but, in my unit, it tended to be young single guys without kids so not many took anything. I would grab a few things for my kids, but it was stuff that I knew we would be throwing away within the week. All of it was presumably clearance items as there would be dozens of the same item. I sure hope no one was actually paying for any of that stuff to be donated.

Dollar Tree definitely asks customers at the register to buy toys from them at Christmas to donate to the children of the military.  So, yes, someone is paying for that stuff to be donated.  I have always declined, but I have seen plenty of people agree to donate a dollar or more at the register...mostly elderly people.  Yes, it's just $1 (now $1.25). But DT makes money on every person that they guilt into donating that money at the register, so it probably adds up to a significant amount.  They make a profit on those items, then "donate" them.

This scam is like the wreaths at Arlington National Cemetery (and others), Wreaths Across America. Some brilliant company created this campaign to have a wreath on every grave.  Then they *sell* those wreaths.  Yes, the family that owns the wreath maker is the same family that runs the chairty, and of course they source the wreaths from... themselves.  Every year, starting in the fall, my FB feed (which has many strong military ties) is ful of requests to donate to this great cause.  If anyone says anything negative about it, they are the asshole who doesn't want dead soldiers to be remembered at Christmas.  Meanwhile the wreath-maker is raking it in, hand over fist.    (A small portion of each wreath-donation amount does go to charities like BSA and the VFW.)

Technically, the non-profit accepts bids, but last I dig into it, there was exactly one bidder that met their "standards", and of course it was their own wreath company. 

It's the same with things like "buy a toy for the troops".  We will sell you and profit from this toy, that we send to troops who probably don't want it.  There's an MLM that sells children's books that pushes hard for "books for military families". Books that they, of course, are more than happy to sell you.

Thank you for the heads up on the Wreath nonprofit.  There is a military cemetery near me and they have been mentioned on local news.  The price is not outrageous, but I'll be taking my own wreaths to make sure they are placed for the folks I know who are buried there.