Bought LED lights cheap at Home Depot

[Bob W]

Home Depot had their Phillips brand, 65 watt dimmable, 2700K spotlight LEDs for 10 bucks.  About 1/2 what they were a few months ago.  In our area they are subsidized by Ameren UE Power Company.   (very nice yellow light emitted)

Each bulb will save us an estimated $8 per year.  So payback is incredible.   We have mostly can lights (16 of them).   So our main lighting source will cost us under $25 per year.   

When thinking about home improvements that save power,  my theory is that low utility using homes are worth more and sell better than average usage homes.   I guestimate that each monthly dollar saved on utilities translates into about $200 in increased home value.  So if my home costs $75 less to run than my neighbors,  theoretically at least, I could price it 15K higher.  Some home loans even give a discounted rate and/or increase the amount of the loan value for energy efficient homes.

If you haven't had a professional home energy analysis, with blow door testing and heat loss cameras, you might consider it.   Many utilities subsidize these when completed by HERS certified professionals.  If not, they cost $250-$350.   You will be impressed with the data set they generate and leaks they identify.   Save just $2 per month and your payback target is met.


Turn your hot water heater thermostat down
Turn your refrigerator up
Turn your lights off
Turn your thermostat to 67 winter, 76 summer

[nereo]

congrats and thanks for the heads-up re: phillips LEDs at Home Depot

...  my theory is that low utility using homes are worth more and sell better than average usage homes.   I guestimate that each monthly dollar saved on utilities translates into about $200 in increased home value.  So if my home costs $75 less to run than my neighbors,  theoretically at least, I could price it 15K higher. 

your logic seems sound but I wonder if it will translate in practice.  Many buyers seem to only care about things like sf, location, and fit & finish.  Lower heating bills certainly should make a home worth more, but will buyers actually pay it... i'm not so certain.  I hope they do.

[Bob W]

congrats and thanks for the heads-up re: phillips LEDs at Home Depot

...  my theory is that low utility using homes are worth more and sell better than average usage homes.   I guestimate that each monthly dollar saved on utilities translates into about $200 in increased home value.  So if my home costs $75 less to run than my neighbors,  theoretically at least, I could price it 15K higher. 

your logic seems sound but I wonder if it will translate in practice.  Many buyers seem to only care about things like sf, location, and fit & finish.  Lower heating bills certainly should make a home worth more, but will buyers actually pay it... i'm not so certain.  I hope they do.

I think in general they will see the advantage of low utility bills.    My son rents a house with a very high energy usage bill due to ancient HVAC equipment.   He has determined that he will move and buy a house.  So in his case energy usage is the deciding factor in deciding to buy a home.

The link below demonstrates that the feds recognize the value in energy efficient homes.  Basically, the loan to value ratios are increased to account for the lower monthly cost of energy.

http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=mortgages.energy_efficient_mortgages

To be conservative I'll assume that for each dollar saved on a monthly basis on energy compared to average users in my area I will price my home $50 dollars higher.   So a $50 dollars monthly savings equates to a $2,500 increase in home value/pricing.  (this is in line with the feds loan to value ratios)

I believe this is important as many people use various payback models to determine if a home energy improvement is worth the investment.   If they include the value of the increase in home value, I think they will find a very quick payback for many improvements. 

For instance,  replacing my 16 flood lights with LEDs for $160 might take up to 2 years for payback.  But if I use the 1 dollar per month to $50 ratio, I can assume that my home is increasing in value by around $400 immediately.  Boom, instant payback!

Now, do I believe that just the bulbs is enough to bump the price?  No I do not,  but I do believe that if we do several things to where our total utilities are $150 monthly below similar homes in the area that people will see the value in that.   (realtors have confirmed this thinking)

Our current average monthly all electric utility cost is around $150 for a 3000 sq ft home.  (we have a well for water and a septic system, so no water or sewer bill).  My midterm goal will be to whittle that number down to around $80.  My son's costs are closer to $300 per month on a 1400 sq ft home due to the inefficient HVAC system and having a $60 water/sewer bill.   

So the question might be, given two very similar houses --- If one has a monthly utility bill of $225 and one has a monthly utility bill of $75.   Is one house worth more?

With an eye to post retirement cost of living a $300 ute bill vs. a $80 ute bill equates to around 80K in additional saving required or in my case about 3 -4 years of additional work years at my current saving rate. 

I'm old so 3-4 years is a lot to me!  lol

[projekt]

I was reading that LEDs are not really compatible with recessed cans because they do not have enough airflow to dissipate the heat and so they wear out fast. Has something changed in the technology?

[Prairie Stash]

so what is a good price for LEDs?

I always get scared off when I see them at costco.  I have CFLs in most all of our lamps and fixtures so I don't think those are worth replacing with LEDs  but we still have the regular 65w flood lights in the cans in the ceiling of our living room and kitchen so I would love to replace those with LEDs-  would you say $10/ pop is about the best you can find?  I think I saw a 2 pack at Costco for about $20 or so.

[extole]

I was reading that LEDs are not really compatible with recessed cans because they do not have enough airflow to dissipate the heat and so they wear out fast. Has something changed in the technology?

They've gotten crazily better in the last few years, especially the LED can lights that replace the existing trim with their own heat dissipating trim.

Like these guys: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cree-TrueWhite-6-in-65W-Equivalent-Soft-White-2700K-BR30-Dimmable-LED-Recessed-Down-Light-Bulb-H1CR6TW62527E04/204656359?N=5yc1vZbm79

45.7 year lifespan at only 9.5 watts. I've replaced ~40 for family members. They've come down in price recently. Perfect so far.

[CCCA]

thanks.  I got a bunch of LED MR16 bulbs (two pronged track light or recessed can bulbs) from Home Depot in the past for $20 each.  I'm hoping to have them come down a bit so I can finish filling out our numerous 4 inch recessed can lights throughout the house. 

[Penny Lane]

Bob-  I feel as though I need a consult when I go to buy a lightbulb now, there are so many choices.  I have some LED's I love and hope to keep replacing the CFLs with them.  How are they outside?  I just had an outside light with a CFL burnout, but would need to see if an LED would do. 

[MikeBear]

I replaced ALL my lights in my house earlier this year with CREE brand led bulbs from Home Depot. Including the ones inside my refrigerator. My monthly power bill went down $15 the first month. I used 75W 5000K bulbs for my outside sensor lights, and they throw a lot of light out. Full brightness instantly also, unlike florescent. Not affected by the cold either.

When you are looking to buy led bulbs to replace what you have now, don't just look at "75W" to "75W" original (for instance). You must also check the LUMENS it puts out, otherwise be aware that some companies will say their bulbs are an equivalent wattage, but the lumens it puts out might only be equal to a much less wattage bulb.

[ncornilsen]

Some of the LED lights from the less advanced companies focus the light a bit more, meaning it may be equivalent to a 40W bulb right under it, but elsewhere it's much dimmer. Cree seems to make the best LEDs at this point. I've been using them in an industrial setting quite a bit.

[Bob W]

Bob-  I feel as though I need a consult when I go to buy a lightbulb now, there are so many choices.  I have some LED's I love and hope to keep replacing the CFLs with them.  How are they outside?  I just had an outside light with a CFL burnout, but would need to see if an LED would do.

Home Depot has a full lighting isle. Our local store had a great lighting guy who knew everything about all the 100s of lights.

I would say they would work great outside if you pick the outside spot lights.

I wanted "dimmable"  can lights which are a significant amount more than those that don't dim. 

I would definitely consider the LED to replace the CFL for outside use. The LED would save you lots of energy costs and basically need replacing in 10 years.   

I joked with the lighting consultant at Home Depot as I had never had a CFL last anywhere near their stated life.   He agreed that there was some overly optimistic projections on CFL lifespan.  With the LEDs that shouldn't be a problem.

[APowers]

so what is a good price for LEDs?

I always get scared off when I see them at costco.  I have CFLs in most all of our lamps and fixtures so I don't think those are worth replacing with LEDs  but we still have the regular 65w flood lights in the cans in the ceiling of our living room and kitchen so I would love to replace those with LEDs-  would you say $10/ pop is about the best you can find?  I think I saw a 2 pack at Costco for about $20 or so.

I bought the two pack of 65W equivalent LED flood bulbs, and they've been great in our bathroom can lights. Actually brighter than the incandescents we had/have in there. I have bought some cheap LED bulbs at Costco (because of low price), and they were legitimately terrible lighting. My suggestion is to go with quality national brands: Cree and Phillips have both worked well in my house (I think the Costco flood bulbs were Sylvania?).

[Nothlit]

At my local Home Depot here in Massachusetts, Philips SlimStyle LED bulbs recently dropped to $2.97. I assume there is some utility company subsidy included there, but that's the price on the shelf (no coupons or vouchers needed). I like the look and feel of those bulbs (smooth frosted plastic) unlike the Cree bulbs (semi-sticky rubbery coating). The only problem is that about half of the SlimStyle bulbs I bought make annoying popping/ticking noises after you switch them off, presumably as the plastic and other interior components are cooling off.

[Bob W]

Glad to see LEDs being used and coming down in price!

I stopped in the HD again today and purchased 32 feet of R-13 wall insulation and tape for $14.  I will  dutifully install that around my hot water heater tonight.   

The hot water blankets were $21 for R10 (I can't imagine they really were) and they had some terrible reviews.

My guestimate is that this little addition will save $24 dollars this year, so the payback is 6 months!

I am also turning my water heater down to a very low setting.   I understand that it should be set to a temperature so that the furthest shower puts out the temp of hot water you desire without adding any cold water.   That should save me another $20 a year.  Payback instantaneous.

Future steps include:  gaskets around exterior sockets and switches,  using a gigawatts tester to test all electric devices for power and ghost usage.  I continue to evaluate and consider heat pump hot water heaters as well as on demand water heaters.  The heat pumps have a hefty rebate from our power company but some nasty reviews and hefty price tags.  The on demands are much cheaper and would really save me a bundle, since we only use hot water for showers.  The problem is running the 220 all the way across the house with no crawl space or easy route.  I guestimate saving $300 per year with the on demand system. 

[dragoncar]

This thread is relevant to my interests.  I've recently been experimenting with LED lights. So far, I've tried:

Costco FEIT 40w equivalents - $6 each -- 2700k, they seem OK, slight buzzing annoys me but I'm using them outside in auto-sensor lights that are probably the #1 bulb run time for us

Costco FEIT 100w equivalent bulb replacement for our cans- $11 after rebate - 2700k color temp is nice, but it takes an extra second to turn on when cold (it's full brightness, there's just a 1-second delay). 

Costco FEIT 100w equivalent outdoor spot - $18 - 3000k color temp was too white, and it turned out I didn't need the bulb so I returned it at that price.

Home Depot CREE TW 60w equivalent - $12 after rebate - these are really highly rated, and do seem to have really good color reproduction, but for some reason it makes my light fixture seem too red.  The TW is actually meant to increase red tones, but it's bothersome... I kinda like yellow tones better in my lighting.  Jury's still out, but I'm thinking I'll end up with a bunch of these for my mood/task lighting (places where color really matters vs. outside).

In general, however, my biggest problem is payback period.  Out electric bill has been $40/month so far and only a fraction of that is lighting.  We don't leave lights on that often (unless entertaining) so I'm not sure I'd ever get paid back for some of these bulbs.  Especially since I already have a number of CFLs (in fixtures and storage) with varying degrees of efficiency and color.  I am willing to pay more to replace the CFLs that are hideous, but the ones at the margin I'm not sure.

edit: the think I like about Costco is their lifetime satisfaction guarantee -- sure, CREE and home depot also have at least 10 year guarantees, but how easy is it to claim?

[The Architect]

so what is a good price for LEDs?

I always get scared off when I see them at costco.  I have CFLs in most all of our lamps and fixtures so I don't think those are worth replacing with LEDs  but we still have the regular 65w flood lights in the cans in the ceiling of our living room and kitchen so I would love to replace those with LEDs-  would you say $10/ pop is about the best you can find?  I think I saw a 2 pack at Costco for about $20 or so.

I've seen name-brand 60W equivalents for $7-8 and 40W equivalents for $5-8. That is the price on the shelf, but it's usually from a power company subsidy and there is a sign or sticker saying so. Look at any store that carries bulbs - Walmart, Kroger, Lowes, HD, etc. I think they weren't dimmable.

[Penny Lane]

I will find the lighting consultant at the Home Depot and bring him/her the burned out CFL, Bob, thanks.  I do have a couple of Crees and the light is very good quality; I think they have figured out how to avoid that blue light, an early problem. 

[Spork]

In general, however, my biggest problem is payback period.  Out electric bill has been $40/month so far and only a fraction of that is lighting.  We don't leave lights on that often (unless entertaining) so I'm not sure I'd ever get paid back for some of these bulbs.  Especially since I already have a number of CFLs (in fixtures and storage) with varying degrees of efficiency and color.  I am willing to pay more to replace the CFLs that are hideous, but the ones at the margin I'm not sure.

This exactly.  I've tried to explain that to a very-pro-LED friend and I just can't get it across.  If your usage is low enough, even 85% savings takes a long time to recoup the price of a $25 recessed light can.

There is also a bit of a (probably somewhat irrational) market-timer in me.  I figure if a regular A-type bulb can drop from $50 to $5 (when on sale) in a few years... that the more expensive BR40s and recessed replacements still have a ways to drop.  I can buy now at $25 each ... or buy in 2 years at $15 each.   I've done the math on my usage and the latter -- while speculative -- would be cheaper.

[dragoncar]

In general, however, my biggest problem is payback period.  Out electric bill has been $40/month so far and only a fraction of that is lighting.  We don't leave lights on that often (unless entertaining) so I'm not sure I'd ever get paid back for some of these bulbs.  Especially since I already have a number of CFLs (in fixtures and storage) with varying degrees of efficiency and color.  I am willing to pay more to replace the CFLs that are hideous, but the ones at the margin I'm not sure.

This exactly.  I've tried to explain that to a very-pro-LED friend and I just can't get it across.  If your usage is low enough, even 85% savings takes a long time to recoup the price of a $25 recessed light can.

There is also a bit of a (probably somewhat irrational) market-timer in me.  I figure if a regular A-type bulb can drop from $50 to $5 (when on sale) in a few years... that the more expensive BR40s and recessed replacements still have a ways to drop.  I can buy now at $25 each ... or buy in 2 years at $15 each.   I've done the math on my usage and the latter -- while speculative -- would be cheaper.

My internal market timer is somewhat the opposite.  Right now, I can get these power company rebates, etc.  In theory, the base cost should come down over time, perhaps drastically (see the 30 cent mini CFLs in the store).  But on the other hand, I expect that as bulbs get cheaper the rebates will be reduced.  Thus, we may see flat prices for years.  On the other hand, any interruption in the supply chain (rare earth from China, fab-crippling earthquake in asia, etc) could drive up prices (see Japan quake and hard drive prices).

Have the same trepidation regarding solar power.

My current plan is to just buy LED bulbs when I actually need a new bulb -- or if I get fed up with the crappy color of a particular CFL.  I'm not replacing my can lights yet. 

[Spork]

My internal market timer is somewhat the opposite.  Right now, I can get these power company rebates, etc.  In theory, the base cost should come down over time, perhaps drastically (see the 30 cent mini CFLs in the store).  But on the other hand, I expect that as bulbs get cheaper the rebates will be reduced.  Thus, we may see flat prices for years.  On the other hand, any interruption in the supply chain (rare earth from China, fab-crippling earthquake in asia, etc) could drive up prices (see Japan quake and hard drive prices).

Have the same trepidation regarding solar power.

My current plan is to just buy LED bulbs when I actually need a new bulb -- or if I get fed up with the crappy color of a particular CFL.  I'm not replacing my can lights yet.

There seem to be no rebates around here (or... when I've looked, I didn't find them... I can't say I've been great about looking).  The rebates don't seem to be baked into the pricing like some people seem to have. 

My can lights still have incandescent in them.  They're 130v and they last (for me) > 10 years.  I've played with CFs in them... and they lasted < 6 months -- presumably due to my crappy power from the electric company.  For me incandescent is actually cheaper due to the sunk costs of the bulbs and the replacement costs of LED/CF.   I'm more than willing to change them when those costs flip though.

[eyePod]

@Bob you mentioned getting an assessment. Who provided that service for you? What was the cost?

[Bob W]

@Bob you mentioned getting an assessment. Who provided that service for you? What was the cost?

Here is a do it yourself link -- http://energy.gov/energysaver/articles/do-it-yourself-home-energy-audits

Here is my home state's link for certified auditors -  http://ded.mo.gov/asp/energy/auditors.htm
You'll probably have to google around in your state.  Best to start with your utility provider.  They keep lists.

Where I used to live with a coop the cost was $100 and they provided over $100 in goodies.  I'm on Ameren EU now and since I don't use both gas and electric they won't pay for it.

Your cost for the audit unsubsidized should be around $250-350.  Be sure they are certified and will be using the blow door test as well as heat pictures.   

Most everyone on this site who owns a home should have one.   I know the initial cost sounds high, but I guarantee the average reader here will save at least $4 per month.   But the average savings will probably be something like $25 a month. 

They should also give you a very nice cost analysis of various improvements along with payback times.

Be sure to consider a person who is not affiliated with an HVAC, insulation or other company as they may have an agenda.

[Simple Abundant Living]

Home Depot had their Phillips brand, 65 watt dimmable, 2700K spotlight LEDs for 10 bucks.  About 1/2 what they were a few months ago.  In our area they are subsidized by Ameren UE Power Company.   (very nice yellow light emitted)

Each bulb will save us an estimated $8 per year.  So payback is incredible.   We have mostly can lights (16 of them).   So our main lighting source will cost us under $25 per year.   

When thinking about home improvements that save power,  my theory is that low utility using homes are worth more and sell better than average usage homes.   I guestimate that each monthly dollar saved on utilities translates into about $200 in increased home value.  So if my home costs $75 less to run than my neighbors,  theoretically at least, I could price it 15K higher.  Some home loans even give a discounted rate and/or increase the amount of the loan value for energy efficient homes.

If you haven't had a professional home energy analysis, with blow door testing and heat loss cameras, you might consider it.   Many utilities subsidize these when completed by HERS certified professionals.  If not, they cost $250-$350.   You will be impressed with the data set they generate and leaks they identify.   Save just $2 per month and your payback target is met.


Turn your hot water heater thermostat down
Turn your refrigerator up
Turn your lights off
Turn your thermostat to 67 winter, 76 summer

I live in an area where the dominant power company sometimes subsidizes lightbulbs, but I am not their customer.  Was yours a rebate, or was it discounted at the point of sale?  My little city does its own power and rarely offer any incentives.  :(

[Bob W]

Discounted at point of sale.  Although Ameren EU does offer rebates for various updates such as appliances, heat pump water heaters and heat pump HVAC systems.   

[Simple Abundant Living]

Discounted at point of sale.  Although Ameren EU does offer rebates for various updates such as appliances, heat pump water heaters and heat pump HVAC systems.

Cool, I'll check out my local Home Depot!

[eyePod]

Thanks for the response Bob.

I like to imagine that you're really not retired and actually perform these audits as your full time job. ;)

Will definitely look into one of these!

[sol]

This exactly.  I've tried to explain that to a very-pro-LED friend and I just can't get it across.  If your usage is low enough, even 85% savings takes a long time to recoup the price of a $25 recessed light can.

Don't forget to account for the price of replacing incandescents, which usually makes LED or CFL lights more cost effective even before the energy savings.  An incandescent lightbulb costs about $1 and lasts about 18 months.  A CFL costs about $2 and should last 5 to 7 years.   An LED costs $10 and should last at least 20 years.  Incandescent light bulbs would have a higher total cost to own even if they were as energy efficient as the alternatives.  Which they are not, so don't be discouraged by the relatively minor cost savings from energy.

Some of my recent purchases: 

60W equivalent CFL bulbs for $1.30 each.  At that price there is NO reason to ever buy an incandescent bulb.  These are 2700K color temperature, so very yellowish light just like a regular incandescent.  They arrived well packaged, all working, none broken.  They'll last longer than regular bulbs and also cut your power consumption 75% per bulb.

60W equivalent LED bulbs for $5.60 each.  These are almost half the price of the Home Depot bulbs quoted above.  They're "full daylight" spectrum so if you're not used to high quality lighting they might look too blue to your eyes.  In some places, I've mixed one of these LEDs with one of the warmer CFL bulbs to balance out the light a little, which seems to work fine.  No complaints thus far.

[Bob W]

Thanks for the response Bob.

I like to imagine that you're really not retired and actually perform these audits as your full time job. ;)

Will definitely look into one of these!

I used to build homes and paid big bucks to become a certified HERS auditor several years ago.  I'm not retired by any means as I lost all my  money in the housing bust. 

I did finally wrap my hot water heater in R13 wall insulation last night.   Can already feel the thrill of saving $4 a month!

[The Architect]

This exactly.  I've tried to explain that to a very-pro-LED friend and I just can't get it across.  If your usage is low enough, even 85% savings takes a long time to recoup the price of a $25 recessed light can.

Don't forget to account for the price of replacing incandescents, which usually makes LED or CFL lights more cost effective even before the energy savings.  An incandescent lightbulb costs about $1 and lasts about 18 months.  A CFL costs about $2 and should last 5 to 7 years.

Unless ????. In my case, I've got incandescents operating side-by-side with CFLs in several rooms. I've had the incandescents 5+ years. I've replaced the CFLs in the same rooms, on the same switches, every 18 months. And I can get incandescents for less than $1, probably $0.50 or less.

[Bob W]

This exactly.  I've tried to explain that to a very-pro-LED friend and I just can't get it across.  If your usage is low enough, even 85% savings takes a long time to recoup the price of a $25 recessed light can.

Don't forget to account for the price of replacing incandescents, which usually makes LED or CFL lights more cost effective even before the energy savings.  An incandescent lightbulb costs about $1 and lasts about 18 months.  A CFL costs about $2 and should last 5 to 7 years.   An LED costs $10 and should last at least 20 years.  Incandescent light bulbs would have a higher total cost to own even if they were as energy efficient as the alternatives.  Which they are not, so don't be discouraged by the relatively minor cost savings from energy.

Some of my recent purchases: 

60W equivalent CFL bulbs for $1.30 each.  At that price there is NO reason to ever buy an incandescent bulb.  These are 2700K color temperature, so very yellowish light just like a regular incandescent.  They arrived well packaged, all working, none broken.  They'll last longer than regular bulbs and also cut your power consumption 75% per bulb.

60W equivalent LED bulbs for $5.60 each.  These are almost half the price of the Home Depot bulbs quoted above.  They're "full daylight" spectrum so if you're not used to high quality lighting they might look too blue to your eyes.  In some places, I've mixed one of these LEDs with one of the warmer CFL bulbs to balance out the light a little, which seems to work fine.  No complaints thus far.

Good points!   My $10 LED can lights are dimmable.   The dimmables seem to be priced a lot higher in the LED category. 

Don't forget,  the LEDs are essentially lifetime bulbs for me and will move where I move.  They may not make sense in areas that the light is used infrequently or for just a few minutes per use.   

Perhaps more importantly the lower power usage and cost I can show on my utility bill when selling a house is a very good selling point.   Think "Green House."   

I resisted the logic for a long time due to the $1  vs  $10 price differential.  This is a case of being "frugal" and not "cheap"   LED= frugal,  Incandescent = cheap.

(in my experience the CFLs have never lived up anywhere near their advertised hours.  Others mileage may vary)

[sol]

Unless ????. In my case, I've got incandescents operating side-by-side with CFLs in several rooms.

By "side-by-side" I do hope you don't mean in the same fixture?  CFLs are heat sensitive and incandescent bulbs put out a lot more heat than light.  Putting them both in the same lamp is just murdering your CFLs.

CFL bulbs are also more sensitive to cycling than incandescents, especially the cheap ones.  If it's like a bathroom light that gets turned on and off thirty times a day, I'd suggest an LED instead of a CFL because the CFL won't last as long under those conditions.  They're best for things like main living areas or porch lights that are usually on for longer periods of time.

Another possible cause of shortened CFL life is dimmer switches.  CFLs hate dimmers, and LEDs technically require specific kinds of dimmers.  Incandescent bulbs will run on just about anything, including electricity sent through human flesh, but if you've got living room dimmer that controls multiple kinds of bulbs on the same circuit then you have a much higher likelihood of problems with buzzing, flickering, and reduced lifespan.

[The Architect]

Unless ????. In my case, I've got incandescents operating side-by-side with CFLs in several rooms.

By "side-by-side" I do hope you don't mean in the same fixture?  CFLs are heat sensitive and incandescent bulbs put out a lot more heat than light.  Putting them both in the same lamp is just murdering your CFLs.

CFL bulbs are also more sensitive to cycling than incandescents, especially the cheap ones.  If it's like a bathroom light that gets turned on and off thirty times a day, I'd suggest an LED instead of a CFL because the CFL won't last as long under those conditions.  They're best for things like main living areas or porch lights that are usually on for longer periods of time.

Another possible cause of shortened CFL life is dimmer switches.  CFLs hate dimmers, and LEDs technically require specific kinds of dimmers.  Incandescent bulbs will run on just about anything, including electricity sent through human flesh, but if you've got living room dimmer that controls multiple kinds of bulbs on the same circuit then you have a much higher likelihood of problems with buzzing, flickering, and reduced lifespan.

Nope, different fixtures, same switch. No dimmers. Bathroom/kitchen lights are actually some of the ones we keep on more in our house, which is where they are/were - I got sick of changing the ones in the kitchen and replaced them with LEDs. Now I'm waiting for the rest of the CFLs to die or to find a good price to replace everything with LEDs.

[sol]

Now I'm waiting for the rest of the CFLs to die or to find a good price to replace everything with LEDs.

LEDs have come down in price almost 50% for each of the past two years.  I think that rate will slow down in the future as we bump up against the minimum manufacturing cost, but if $10 bulbs are even $7 next year then I suppose it makes sense to ride out your existing CFL bulbs for as long as possible.

The difference in power consumption between LED and CFL bulbs seems relatively minor, in terms of dollars.  The big cost savings are in getting rid of the incandescents, especially the high-wattage ones.  What you replace them with doesn't really seem to matter in terms of energy use, just purchase price vs longevity.  If your longevity is suffering, then I totally understand the desire to move away from CFLs. 

They're a transitional technology anyway, and I predict that in another five years they'll be hard to find in stores just because LEDs will be so clearly the better option.  I'm hoping to never buy another CFL bulb after this month.

NOW IS THE TIME, PEOPLE.  Winter is coming, your light bulbs are getting used more and more each day.  If you still have a 100W incandescent light bulb in your house, you're better off smashing it with a hammer than keeping it until it burns out.  It's time to upgrade.

[The Architect]

Now I'm waiting for the rest of the CFLs to die or to find a good price to replace everything with LEDs.

LEDs have come down in price almost 50% for each of the past two years.  I think that rate will slow down in the future as we bump up against the minimum manufacturing cost, but if $10 bulbs are even $7 next year then I suppose it makes sense to ride out your existing CFL bulbs for as long as possible.

Oh I know, I can get $7 (or less!) 60w-eq. LEDs now - when the power company subsidies them as such. I'm just waiting for the subsidy to pop up again.

[sol]

Oh I know, I can get $7 (or less!) 60w-eq. LEDs now - when the power company subsidies them as such. I'm just waiting for the subsidy to pop up again.

Or $5.60 from amazon without any subsidy, any day of the week.  Just in case you missed it.

[Cinder]

I did finally wrap my hot water heater in R13 wall insulation last night.   Can already feel the thrill of saving $4 a month!

Sorry for the Hijack..
I've been meaning to do this same thing... Which way do you install the insulation, paper side in or out?

[Spork]

This exactly.  I've tried to explain that to a very-pro-LED friend and I just can't get it across.  If your usage is low enough, even 85% savings takes a long time to recoup the price of a $25 recessed light can.

Don't forget to account for the price of replacing incandescents, which usually makes LED or CFL lights more cost effective even before the energy savings.  An incandescent lightbulb costs about $1 and lasts about 18 months.  A CFL costs about $2 and should last 5 to 7 years.   An LED costs $10 and should last at least 20 years.  Incandescent light bulbs would have a higher total cost to own even if they were as energy efficient as the alternatives.  Which they are not, so don't be discouraged by the relatively minor cost savings from energy.

The cost of the incandescent is a sunk cost.   It's paid for.  I'm not planning on buying more.   130v incandescents will last 7-10 years -- maybe longer depending on usage.  The 18 month is for 120v incandescents.   

My bulbs are not generally the A-type bulbs either.... They're mostly BR40.  Costs for incandescent/CF/LED are quite a bit higher for BR40s.  LEDs are running about $25, name brand CFs run about $12-15.   And my experience with CFs has been that they last about 4 months with my dirty power.  (I haven't been able to find 130v CFs or LEDs.)

I live in the country and my power just is seriously spikey.   I've got UPS logs going back about a year... there are 2-3 times a day that the UPS has to kick in.  My power is hell on anything with a circuit board -- which really sort of worries me about LEDs.

[Spork]

Unless ????. In my case, I've got incandescents operating side-by-side with CFLs in several rooms.

By "side-by-side" I do hope you don't mean in the same fixture?  CFLs are heat sensitive and incandescent bulbs put out a lot more heat than light.  Putting them both in the same lamp is just murdering your CFLs.

CFL bulbs are also more sensitive to cycling than incandescents, especially the cheap ones.  If it's like a bathroom light that gets turned on and off thirty times a day, I'd suggest an LED instead of a CFL because the CFL won't last as long under those conditions.  They're best for things like main living areas or porch lights that are usually on for longer periods of time.

Another possible cause of shortened CFL life is dimmer switches.  CFLs hate dimmers, and LEDs technically require specific kinds of dimmers.  Incandescent bulbs will run on just about anything, including electricity sent through human flesh, but if you've got living room dimmer that controls multiple kinds of bulbs on the same circuit then you have a much higher likelihood of problems with buzzing, flickering, and reduced lifespan.

(My understanding is limited... be forewarned that I may very well be talking outta my arse...)  CFs also don't like to be hung "bulb down, screw up".  They were never designed for that and I've been told it seriously shortens the life of the bulb.  Fixtures like a standard round recessed can are going to hang them in this position.

[The Architect]

(My understanding is limited... be forewarned that I may very well be talking outta my arse...)  CFs also don't like to be hung "bulb down, screw up".  They were never designed for that and I've been told it seriously shortens the life of the bulb.  Fixtures like a standard round recessed can are going to hang them in this position.

All of mine were sideways or upright. Seems like CFLs hate being anything other than 'on' or 'off' - which seriously hampers their actual usability. I also don't like that they need to warm up - LEDs are worlds ahead when it comes to turning on, mine are just like incandescents.

[dragoncar]

Thanks for the response Bob.

I like to imagine that you're really not retired and actually perform these audits as your full time job. ;)

Will definitely look into one of these!

I used to build homes and paid big bucks to become a certified HERS auditor several years ago.  I'm not retired by any means as I lost all my  money in the housing bust. 

I did finally wrap my hot water heater in R13 wall insulation last night.   Can already feel the thrill of saving $4 a month!

Um... can I borrow your IR camera?

60W equivalent LED bulbs for $5.60 each.  These are almost half the price of the Home Depot bulbs quoted above.  They're "full daylight" spectrum so if you're not used to high quality lighting they might look too blue to your eyes.  In some places, I've mixed one of these LEDs with one of the warmer CFL bulbs to balance out the light a little, which seems to work fine.  No complaints thus far.

Yikes, 6000k?  I personally like 2700k for the cozy feel.  Better color temperature for before sleepytimes.

These days I see those blue LEDs going up everywhere -- new streetlamps, etc.  I wonder if "those darn kids" in 20 years will consider 2700k terribly old fashioned.

[Bob W]

I did finally wrap my hot water heater in R13 wall insulation last night.   Can already feel the thrill of saving $4 a month!

Sorry for the Hijack..
I've been meaning to do this same thing... Which way do you install the insulation, paper side in or out?

.     Out.  Duct taped seams.