BlueHost Issues with MMM

[AH013]

Getting 503, server not found, and website unavailable errors?  I feel like 1 out of 3 times I try to hit up this site (or maybe just the forum) it's busted.  Sometimes it lasts minutes, other times I need to come back an hour later, and rarely it's down for most of the day (though not recently).

Did a WhoIs and found out BlueHost is listed as the web host of MMM.  They advertise $5 a month for "unlimited" bandwidth...which is a bit of a fib if they just collapse your servers if you're using too much bandwidth.

Anyone else experiencing similar issues?

Not knocking MMM, as I don't see any ads so I can completely understand him not wanting to blow a lot on a web host.  But it's kinda like that guy who has to push his car to get it started --- sometimes the cheapest solution is fairly expensive in terms of opportunity cost (new visitors) and wasted time.  I'd hate to recommend someone come to this site to gain a mustache, and they later tell me they didn't bother reading cause it was down when they first tried.

[LibrarIan]

Yeah, I see this error a lot. I just wait a few and refresh.

[James]

I agree, lots of issues with the forum at various times. Not enough to push me away, but enough to make me wonder. Not a big deal, but if the issues continue I do think that represents poorly on whoever is maintaining the forum.

[mak1277]

Yep...of the three of four internet forums I've visited in my life, this one is by far the worst in terms of unavailability.

[unix_kung_fu]

I see this quite often here. MMM is paying for shared hosting, and you get what you pay for. For a few dollars a month this site and probably 600 others are all sitting on the same server, competing for resources.

I think MMM should get a dedicated VPS and also throw an IRC service on there!

[Cassie]

I agree since I have had many times where this site is unavailable.

[Kriegsspiel]

First world problems.

[Nords]

Not knocking MMM, as I don't see any ads so I can completely understand him not wanting to blow a lot on a web host.  But it's kinda like that guy who has to push his car to get it started --- sometimes the cheapest solution is fairly expensive in terms of opportunity cost (new visitors) and wasted time.  I'd hate to recommend someone come to this site to gain a mustache, and they later tell me they didn't bother reading cause it was down when they first tried.

Actually I think you are knocking MMM for his purported poor choice of web hosts.

If he was losing money during the down time then I can see paying more money for more server & bandwidth.  But, oh wait, that would be like running a business for profit margins and having a real job.  Eeeeuw. 

I'm sorry your referrals aren't intrigued enough by the "badassity" keyword to overlook a site that's not immediately satisfying their gratification.  Maybe these potential students just aren't yet ready for the teacher to appear.

And yes, I once owned a car with a dead starter motor that took a month to find at a local junkyard.  In the meantime I push-started it almost every day.

[Thegoblinchief]

It's a bit annoying since he does earn five figures annually from the ad income at last update That's not a ton, but it's way more than enough to have a good server.

If this was a zero income generating website, I'd be fine, but dude... you don't need the money, so kick in a bit more for service.

[nereo]

It's a bit annoying since he does earn five figures annually from the ad income at last update That's not a ton, but it's way more than enough to have a good server.

If this was a zero income generating website, I'd be fine, but dude... you don't need the money, so kick in a bit more for service.

I have to agree here - MMM's hit FIRE and yet he's mentioned several times that the ad-income from his blog exceeds his annual expenses. 
As much as I appreciate (and try to emulate) his "optimize everything!" approach, he's created a de-facto business here and it needs a better server.

[Nords]

It's a bit annoying since he does earn five figures annually from the ad income at last update That's not a ton, but it's way more than enough to have a good server.

If this was a zero income generating website, I'd be fine, but dude... you don't need the money, so kick in a bit more for service.

I have to agree here - MMM's hit FIRE and yet he's mentioned several times that the ad-income from his blog exceeds his annual expenses. 
As much as I appreciate (and try to emulate) his "optimize everything!" approach, he's created a de-facto business here and it needs a better server.

He could use that righteous income to set us all up with double-wide recliners equipped with catheters and bedpans in front of 30-inch monitors and wireless keyboards, too, but I'd rather see the money go to charity or other worthwhile projects.

I can surf plenty of slick, corporate, high-bandwidth websites.  I used to enjoy Dory's Early-Retirement.org forum a lot (and I worked there for free) until Andy R turned it into a business and started running it like one.  Vanguard Diehards spent years bickering with Morningstar until they'd collectively had enough and decamped to run their own place.

If the service here ain't good enough then I suggest you get out your wallets and put your money where your keyboards are.

[Paul der Krake]

If the service here ain't good enough then I suggest you get out your wallets and put your money where your keyboards are.

IIO  jusst  did but itts harrd tiosee the kkeys niowww

[nereo]

He could use that righteous income to set us all up with double-wide recliners equipped with catheters and bedpans in front of 30-inch monitors and wireless keyboards, too, but I'd rather see the money go to charity or other worthwhile projects.

I can surf plenty of slick, corporate, high-bandwidth websites.  I used to enjoy Dory's Early-Retirement.org forum a lot (and I worked there for free) until Andy R turned it into a business and started running it like one.  Vanguard Diehards spent years bickering with Morningstar until they'd collectively had enough and decamped to run their own place.

If the service here ain't good enough then I suggest you get out your wallets and put your money where your keyboards are.

Ok - I'm not trying to start an arguement here, but for the sake of discussion, I'll bring up two counterpoints. 
First, I actually *do* consider this site to be a worthwhile project to society and (since it is all free) a charity of sorts.  Thousands of people, myself included, have gained something by participating frequently in the forums, and through all its exposure hundreds-of-thousands have at least been exposed to the idea that there's an alternative to work 40+ hours for 40+ years.
Unfortunately, this blog is experiencing some acute side-effects from its success - most notably the overloaded servers.

My second and interlinked point is that MMM started the blog and forum to help others lead better lives via "financial freedom through badassity".  Now, though, the site delays are far from badass and I days go by when I can't access the forums, can't participate.  If MMM were incuring financial strains because of this blog I wouldn't expect him to change things, but by his own admission he's reaping far more money from this project than he ever imagined.
I don't want to see this site become a for-profit business like so many other financial sites, but I don't want to see it collapse under its own popularity either. 

[Opus77]

Strange. I thought that MMM left Bluehost a while ago to go with Digital Ocean. He even had a post about the new Web Host. Did I miss something?

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/03/20/we-are-back-and-better-than-ever/

[Vilgan]

I haven't bothered trying to figure out what service they use, but it has been pretty awful. I'll usually get annoyed and stay away for a few weeks until I need to look up something else or get bored/curious and wander back.

[Rezdent]

I agree with Kriegsspiel.  First World problem and its been a really minor one for me at that.
I'm pretty darn grateful for the forum - having learned so much over the last year or so.
I certainly can't complain about the price of admission either.    I feel like I am getting many times more value than the cost to me.
I actually quit lurking and joined because I want to give back to this forum community.
I fail to see what the host's income has to do with how much free forum/bandwidth should be offered?

[Moonwaves]

I find it somewhat amusing how quickly this thread turned from an "anyone else having technical issues when trying to acces the forum" issue to a kind of a complainypants one. How about we first just let MMM/the mods know that there are issues (like for example, by starting a thread on it - good idea OP!) and giving them a chance to actually respond/look into it?

For what it's worth I get the 503 message fairly often but most of the time, after the initial few seconds of irritation, I do tend to think of it as MMM letting me know it might be time to step away from the computer. :)

[soccerluvof4]

I would be hesitant to say that they don't know the problems. Deciding to change the server is another thing. Can I live with it the way it is sure BUT i do agree it would be nice to get on and get off when I want of course. I will say I can see this driving a few peeps away but its not going to discourage me from coming to the forum. The benefits out weigh the inconvenience but technically speaking it needs updating and I believe he can do both by upgrading and giving to charity. One would think he will as he seems to take pride in the things he does and making something wrong better and turning it into a" business" is a far stretch....Whatever his decision so be it.

[arebelspy]

I believe MMM has left the site on shared hosting so it goes down on purpose - the 503 error is his way of telling you to stand up and go outside.

/just kidding
//sometimes people take me seriously because I'm a mod, as if that matters
///but really.. go outside.

[wtjbatman]

Is it ironic that when I first clicked this thread it wouldn't load, and gave me a 503 error?

I appreciate the "free" forums (technically us coming to his website and forums generates the ad revenue MMM claims could pay for his expenses, so we're not exactly mooching, but I digress), but if we keep having these technical problems, or they get worse, we won't have such a large and vibrant community for much longer.

#firstworldproblems
#freeMMM

[Nords]

... but if we keep having these technical problems, or they get worse, we won't have such a large and vibrant community for much longer.
#firstworldproblems
#freeMMM

So does that imply that the complainypants wimps will abdicate the forum to hardcore badass posters?

Maybe Arebelspy was right after all...

[Vilgan]

Shrug, I've sent people to this site and been told it was down/not working (I'd assume just the forums) and they never bothered going back.

Yes, we are not owed anything and he can do what he wants. Cool. But if your goal is to "spread the word" then having the various parts of your website actually work seems like a worthwhile goal.

[wtjbatman]

Connection Problems
Sorry, SMF was unable to connect to the database. This may be caused by the server being busy. Please try again later.

That just happened, and I couldn't load the forums for about 10 minutes. The server is busy at 8am CST on a Thursday morning? Really?

[wtjbatman]

Shrug, I've sent people to this site and been told it was down/not working (I'd assume just the forums) and they never bothered going back.

Yes, we are not owed anything and he can do what he wants. Cool. But if your goal is to "spread the word" then having the various parts of your website actually work seems like a worthwhile goal.

Exactly. It's frustrating and annoying and we're being complainypants about it because we love this place. We aren't negative nancies, we want people (including ourselves) to be able to access these forums and their wealth of investment knowledge and advice on living frugally.

People pointing out the recent connectivity issues and downtime of the forums is not a negative, despite what some people may think.

[sheepstache]

Connection Problems
Sorry, SMF was unable to connect to the database. This may be caused by the server being busy. Please try again later.

That just happened, and I couldn't load the forums for about 10 minutes. The server is busy at 8am CST on a Thursday morning? Really?

I keep getting it at the same time, 9am EST.  I assume it's all the 9-5ers on the east coast getting to work and immediately coming here :)

[wtjbatman]

Connection Problems
Sorry, SMF was unable to connect to the database. This may be caused by the server being busy. Please try again later.

That just happened, and I couldn't load the forums for about 10 minutes. The server is busy at 8am CST on a Thursday morning? Really?

I keep getting it at the same time, 9am EST.  I assume it's all the 9-5ers on the east coast getting to work and immediately coming here :)

Haha, back to work you slackers!

[missksaves]

I've been getting the 503 error too. I was surprised since I thought MMM was happy with his hosting.

[Mrs MM]

We didn't know there was an issue. Just randomly came across this thread today. Please contact us if you're experiencing continuous downtime like this or let Kevin know (he's on the forums). We've switched servers many times and having the site and forum up is a huge priority for us. It seems like having the site up and running would be a simple thing, but apparently it's not if these issues are still happening. That's not because we don't care or don't want to spend the money. :) I'll let our server gurus know.

P.S. we left Bluehost ages ago!

[MMM]

Hello Friends,

I am thankful for every aspect of this forum and the amazing amount of help that people serve up to each other just for the joy of helping out.

But Holy Shit! So much ungrounded speculation! I would never cheap out on web hosting - having this site and forum working as effectively as possible is pretty much the #1 priority in my hobby life - that is, the discretionary activities outside of family and close friends. Also, the blog makes plenty of income to keep itself afloat, regardless of what might come up.

The only limit has been the very finite nature of our intelligence (especially my own), which is a pretty big problem when trying to operate this website, which is now among the world's busiest 10,000 - apparently putting it in a tiny fraction of a percent of sites where lots of customization is needed. Most sites with this traffic make several million in revenue per year and have a good-sized dedicated staff working on them, and we don't have quite that many luxurious resources available (yet!)

We started with Bluehost, then switched over to Digital Ocean's system in March 2013:
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/03/20/we-are-back-and-better-than-ever/

Beginning with a dedicated 2-core VPS, we gradually upgraded to 8 cores over the next year (annual cost $1920), plus add-ons for faster DNS service and with all sorts of caching and Content Distribution Network fiddling to speed things up. There have also been multiple developers working on keeping up with the traffic and trying to keep things reliable, some for pay and some for free.

Then in April 2014, after some problems with Digital Ocean's reliability, we switched to a new totally dedicated server with Weberz, because an insider in the company gave us even more power AND unlimited access to a brilliant IT guy to go with it. Not just a virtual server, but a real heavy chunk of metal on its own rack with noisy fans. This has been a great help to the site. This went along with the complete redesign of the main site, which was set up with the idea of presenting more of the beginner/core articles to the few thousand new visitors that arrive to the site each day. The redesign was around $7,000 - a bargain if you divide it out among the hours the designers/developers put into it, and the improved growth so far:
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/04/28/meet-the-new-mr-money-mustache/

Since then, the main site has been pretty good with the exception of a major screw up one day when the data center overheated in August, but the forum had a misconfiguration - possibly due to outgrowing its default 7GB database table size limit. This might be fixed now.

Anyway, thanks for using the forum, and it is totally understandable that many people would not have read those older articles on the main site. I've learned that many forum people have no interest in mainstream MMM and vice versa. But if you ever DO want to get the inside scoop on what I've been doing or thinking, feel free to send me a message and ask. There is plenty of incorrect speculation around the Internet about what ol' Mr. Money Mustache's motivations are, but I'm here for you if you'd rather have real information here on this forum instead!

all the best,
Pete(MMM)