The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: Scandium on May 10, 2016, 02:29:37 PM
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So I'm considering a job closer to home. It would be 7 miles each way, on paved trails, almost no death-defying road biking (drivers here are not used to bikes and pretty aggressive). So sounds pretty nice to do a bike commute and I want to, but then I look at the numbers and hesitate.
Drive it's < 15 min. I suppose it could be 20 min with some traffic, but generally the route is not bad.
Bike would be 40 min according to google maps. I.e. 10.5 mi/hr (I have no idea what my bike speed would be..)
So it would take me 50 min longer each day, 250 min/week. Or 216 hours more per year spent commuting! Or i could just drive and spend 50 min more per day with my family.. I already see my son less than I'd like, so this seems like a no-brainer. Why waste 50 min per day with my ass hurting when I could easily avoid it?
Financially it makes a little sense, but not by much. Unfortunately I drive a prius, so (per my calcs, all included) it only costs something like 20 cent/mile. So the commute would cost me $2.8 per day (actually more than I thought). Or another way; it'd make $3.36 per hour for the time I bike, 1/2 minimum wage.. This of course does not count that I'd need nicer bike than the 7 year old, $80 Target one I have now, and any maintenance it would require (a $700 bike would take 46 weeks to pay itself back..). A modest cost of $730p per year for that extra time? Doesn't sound so bad to me. Now if I had a 12 mpg truck it would be a better deal.
So does bike commuting only make sense if I want to save 3 bucks, and want to see my family slightly less? I see little downside and pretty good upside to driving.
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Do you belong to a gym? If so, how much time/money do you spend on that? Because biking will let you cut that out.
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For me, time with my kids is a premium and that is one of the main reasons I don't ride (on top of weather and lack of a safe route). I think it would depend how much you enjoy biking, if you could use it replace work out time, do you value the lessening of impacts on the environment etc. In the end only you can decide! Does it have to be all or nothing?
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Time value was the main reason I always drove to work...35-40 minutes on bike vs. 8 minutes driving. That's an hour of time a day to save $2 in fuel. In addition, I need a car for other aspects of my life, so I would have owned a car regardless. Also, the winters here are brutal and summers are humid, so driving to work was a no brainer for me.
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Do you belong to a gym? If so, how much time/money do you spend on that? Because biking will let you cut that out.
Biking only saves on the cardio...what about muscle development?
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Off the top of my head - exercise. Two birds, 1 stone.
Anyway, I tried bike commuting for about 2 months on a 5 mile each-way route, but on roads with decently steep hills (for me very steep). It is also damn hot here a good chunk of the year. Did not enjoy it and went back to a 10-15 minute drive. That was in 2014. Maybe I should try it again and see if it still sucks as bad as it did for me then. Probably won't.
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I was also going to ask about if you use a gym, because you could save time and money cutting that out if you bike to work. Or even if you don't pay for a gym, but do any other exercise at home, that still takes time, so could the biking replace that time spent exercising? Then you'd still be getting back time with your kids.
What about compromising? Bike two or three times a week and drive the other days.
Ultimately you have to look at what is more important to you. I myself have about the same commute as you...7 miles which takes about 15-20 minutes driving. I think that is reasonable.
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You need to exercise every day. So when are you doing that, if not the bike?
FWIW I am a average serious biker, and I average 20 MPH.. meaning I would do your 7 miles in about 20 minutes. Basically making it a time savings, as at the end of the day I have 40 minutes of less exercise to do, with no additional commute time.
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Do you belong to a gym? If so, how much time/money do you spend on that? Because biking will let you cut that out.
Biking only saves on the cardio...what about muscle development?
Exactly. I don't much cardio anyway, as I have enough of that, and it's boring.. :) I prefer strength exercise. I do crossfit twice a week so that's only 120 min, say 180 total to get there/back etc (it's on my way home). It's expensive so certainly good to cut, but it does a lot of other good in addition to cardio and motivate me so I've kept it. If I bike I'd have to do weights at home.
That's the most positive way I've thought of it. Cut the gym, save just over $100/month, get home earlier 2x/week and do weights after my son is asleep anyway. And as some have said I could do a mix. I was just just looking at the binary options for the calculations. I was just kinda surprised how poorly biking came out, as I thought this place was close it would totally make sense to bike. But not quite.
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Am in a similar situation, and quantitatively there is (nearly) no reason to bike to work, the cost savings are small by most any standard and the exercise time would be better spent running.
The main reason I still ride to work when the weather is nice (most anytime it is not raining) is that I enjoy it.
Also there are many days where riding to work is the only exercise I would get in a given day.
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I think the easy way to figure it out is just to bike a couple times a week for a few weeks and see what you think. I think if you try it both ways, you'll figure out what you want to do.
And to those that don't think biking builds muscle, you should see my legs towards then end of the summer when I've been biking over the big hill between me and downtown.
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Am in a similar situation, and quantitatively there is (nearly) no reason to bike to work, the cost savings are small by most any standard and the exercise time would be better spent running.
The main reason I still ride to work when the weather is nice (most anytime it is not raining) is that I enjoy it.
Also there are many days where riding to work is the only exercise I would get in a given day.
This reminds me of a quote a saw, but not sure about it's validity. Something like:
"Runners live longer than non-runners, but not by more than the time spent running. So they'd better really like running"
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With some over-the-ear headphones at a low volume you can safely listen to audiobooks/podcasts while riding a bike - some of my best listening gets done when I ride to and from work! Without that time I'd probably have a huge back-log of un-listened to audio.
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Time value was the main reason I always drove to work...35-40 minutes on bike vs. 8 minutes driving. That's an hour of time a day to save $2 in fuel. In addition, I need a car for other aspects of my life, so I would have owned a car regardless. Also, the winters here are brutal and summers are humid, so driving to work was a no brainer for me.
An 8 minute drive takes you 35-40 minutes? Are you on a tricycle?
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You need to exercise every day. So when are you doing that, if not the bike?
FWIW I am a average serious biker, and I average 20 MPH.. meaning I would do your 7 miles in about 20 minutes. Basically making it a time savings, as at the end of the day I have 40 minutes of less exercise to do, with no additional commute time.
7 miles in 20 minutes is really good. Are you counting in the time for all the traffic lights? I find that due to all the stops, I can only do my 8 mile commute in around 35 minutes.
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You need to exercise every day. So when are you doing that, if not the bike?
FWIW I am a average serious biker, and I average 20 MPH.. meaning I would do your 7 miles in about 20 minutes. Basically making it a time savings, as at the end of the day I have 40 minutes of less exercise to do, with no additional commute time.
7 miles in 20 minutes is really good. Are you counting in the time for all the traffic lights? I find that due to all the stops, I can only do my 8 mile commute in around 35 minutes.
Same, I have a 16 mile commute, but it takes a little over an hour with all of the traffic stops. On top of that, if you weren't stopping and starting up it would surely be a Lot less work. On the other hand, I berate myself, because if I were going 20-25 mph at all times, I'd probably be making more green lights!
The biggest downside to biking is that my legs become super strong and they don't fit in to 'regular' fit jeans. Need to get the 'athletic' fit with extra room around the calves and quads or else it's just plain uncomfortable.
A car is a tool. For certain situations, it has great utility. Going far distances, carrying extra capacity, locomotion without exertion. There is a time and place for these things. You don't need to replace all car miles with biking, as it's been noted you need to give up some things, like pants. Instead, find out where you can make your life more efficient, and have less impact on the environment. You don't need to bike Everywhere, but can you replace Some of your miles with a bike? Can you do it without a lot of effort? With just a little bit of effort? Are you whining about fairly minor things?
These are things we should ask and answer for ourselves. In my case, biking on most days to replace my daily commute is extremely beneficial. One less car adding to traffic, one less combustion engine burning fuel. If it detracts from my lifestyle, I find that it still adds more in the places where it counts. Except in pants, damn these pants..
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You need to exercise every day. So when are you doing that, if not the bike?
FWIW I am a average serious biker, and I average 20 MPH.. meaning I would do your 7 miles in about 20 minutes. Basically making it a time savings, as at the end of the day I have 40 minutes of less exercise to do, with no additional commute time.
7 miles in 20 minutes is really good. Are you counting in the time for all the traffic lights? I find that due to all the stops, I can only do my 8 mile commute in around 35 minutes.
Same, I have a 16 mile commute, but it takes a little over an hour with all of the traffic stops. On top of that, if you weren't stopping and starting up it would surely be a Lot less work. On the other hand, I berate myself, because if I were going 20-25 mph at all times, I'd probably be making more green lights!
The biggest downside to biking is that my legs become super strong and they don't fit in to 'regular' fit jeans. Need to get the 'athletic' fit with extra room around the calves and quads or else it's just plain uncomfortable.
A car is a tool. For certain situations, it has great utility. Going far distances, carrying extra capacity, locomotion without exertion. There is a time and place for these things. You don't need to replace all car miles with biking, as it's been noted you need to give up some things, like pants. Instead, find out where you can make your life more efficient, and have less impact on the environment. You don't need to bike Everywhere, but can you replace Some of your miles with a bike? Can you do it without a lot of effort? With just a little bit of effort? Are you whining about fairly minor things?
These are things we should ask and answer for ourselves. In my case, biking on most days to replace my daily commute is extremely beneficial. One less car adding to traffic, one less combustion engine burning fuel. If it detracts from my lifestyle, I find that it still adds more in the places where it counts. Except in pants, damn these pants..
My super WASPy planned community suburb has ~100 miles of paved paths, so I wouldn't be on the streets except for maybe 200 yards, and only one traffic light. As far as I know, two (pedestrian) tunnels would take me under the only big streets I'd have to cross. I'd be curious how long it would take me. I could try with my current shitty bike.
Pant issues sound annoying. My pretty low rate of crossfit already made my shoulders/neck and traps larger so had to buy bigger shirts and have my suit tailored! Now I'd need new pants too?? Maybe this is a bad idea..
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I put one of these on my bike so that I could make much faster time when/if I needed to:
http://www.electric-bike-kit.com/hill-topper.aspx
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I wouldn't do it. I like every moment outside of work spent with family / at home. YMMV.
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The way I think about it:
- It takes me about 30 min more each day
- I have a lot more energy at work
- It feels good to bike and I like it
- It forces me to exercise
Also, a 20mph average would be pretty ridiculous for me given the number of roads to cross. I do 4.5 miles in about 25-30 minutes, so about a 10mph total pace including stops. I guess that's pretty good still.
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As a person who has a company vehicle and pay's $0 in vehicle related expenses (minus a small payroll deduction) I still use my bike for regular commuting around town over the car. There are non-monetary benefits as well. Biking is great for fitness as previous posters stated, but it also has amazing stress relief benefits. Plus it gives me a little extra time to think if I'm not in actual traffic. You say you want to spend more time with your son, but have you calculated in how much a bike ride a couple of times a week might improve your mood when you get home, making that time higher quality than if you were frazzled after commuting by car?
There's no way to put a $ figure to some off these things, but something else to consider when making a decision. I'd try it 1-2 days a week, see how you feel and decide from there.
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7 miles is a pretty desirable bike commute for a variety of reasons. You don't have to bike commute. You also don't have to like it.
I think you should try it.
If you want to build muscle, just remove the seat and stand the whole way.
Kidding.
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My commute: 9 mi each way, ~18 min drive, ~36 min ride.
Pros: We dropped to one car, we save money, I lost weight (more consistent on the bike than at the gym), I am more alert in the AM and completely de-stressed in the PM, I enjoy the bike ride more than the car commute, bike commuting to work introduced me to utility cycling overall so my lifestyle changed (and much of my family time has been spent riding bikes with my wife and/or son.
Downstream effect: My son learned how to ride a bike safely around town, and he uses public transit/Amtrak constantly. His not buying a car during HS/college has saved him thousands of dollars which has kept his bank account extremely flush. My example made it easy for him.
Cons: It does rain, I do have occasional work schedule conflicts with my wife (9 occasions this year).
False cons: Extra shower required (not if you work out at the gym in the PM anyway), time wasted (not if you go to the gym anyway), insignificant money saved (might be a bit true if you don't drop a car), time spent away from family (might introduce you to new ways to spend time with family a la kids might go with you to the grocery store if you bike there---and do you really count the AM minutes as family time? A totally fake argument if you own a TV)
For you (and others doing such contemplations)---everything depends on your prioritization. Just use real and reasonable rationale (sore butt is not a reason). Be fit and active. Save money. Spend time with family. Do a great job at work. Enjoy your commute. I bike and manage all of these. If you drive and do the same, more power to you.
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The way I think about it:
- It takes me about 30 min more each day
- I have a lot more energy at
work
home with family and on weekends
- It feels good to bike and I like it
- It forces me to exercise
Also, a 20mph average would be pretty ridiculous for me given the number of roads to cross. I do 4.5 miles in about 25-30 minutes, so about a 10mph total pace including stops. I guess that's pretty good still.
Corrected that for you...:-)
I found the paved bike commute quite peaceful, and loved it, even when it was 40 min each way for me (20 min after we got the ebike)... commute with traffic and lots of stoplights actually increased my stress and blood pressure, so I stopped, but then lost some of energy for family time.
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For me it (choosing between a bus and a car commute) came down to whether I really believed I'd spend the extra time saved by driving at home, or just work more. The bottom line was I always left work with just enough time to have dinner with the wife, no matter what method of commuting I chose. In the end, the bike commute, though it took longer, forced me to be more efficient at work b/c I was forced to leave that much earlier to keep up my social commitments. Your job may not have that kind of flexibility, but this aspect might be worth considering.
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If you don't want to ride your bike, don't ride your bike.
Me? I think driving is awful. Spending 15-20 minutes twice a day in a car sounds miserable. My 7.5 mile commute takes about 25 minutes on average (faster on the way there, slower on the way back due to prevailing winds and a slight incline). Driving would probably take about that (maybe even longer on the way home) but if it was 10 minutes each way I still wouldn't do it often.
Oh, and my muscles are just fine.
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My distance is just a little more than yours (16-20 miles round trip depending on route) and I also drive a gas saving car 15 minutes one way.
#1: Google estimate is usually high if you're any kind of cyclist. Mine says 45 minutes one way but it's more like 30 when I track it on strava.
#2: Do you like biking? I love it, so I ride as much as I can as long as my legs feel good and it's not REALLY nasty out. If you hate biking I wouldn't do it at all in your situation, if you're indifferent I'd say do a day or two a week when the weather is nice or you feel like it.
#3: Fitness as other have mentioned. Nothing like a day when you bike to/from work *AND* hit the weights for an hour, that's 3000 calories of good eatin with no possible weight gain, woohoo!
Anyway, no need to be dogmatic just because MMM says it's badass to bike. Do it if you like it and it makes sense. :D
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I do it for the mood fixing effects. I have a 3-mile one-way commute (half suburban roads, half busy frontage roads) that I do twice a week. If I'm grouchy when I leave the house, I'm cheerful and much more efficient when I show up at work. Same for coming home. Stress slides off easier when I'm biking.
I'm slow. My commute takes me between 20-25 minutes on the bike; 8 minutes by car. But I feel so much better on the bike, and I also really enjoy the feeling of subverting the dominant paradigm.
Me and my old granny bike with chintz panniers, we're sticking it to the man for the fun of it!
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When I can't ride my bicycle, I drive my wife's plug-in hybrid instead. We charge it with our solar panels, so it doesn't cost anything to operate. You might want to look into something like that if the time factor of bicycle riding is an unacceptable burden. Remember: Frugality doesn't mean you need to be deprived of happiness.
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Do you belong to a gym? If so, how much time/money do you spend on that? Because biking will let you cut that out.
Biking only saves on the cardio...what about muscle development?
Use a higher gear. Of course it will still only do specific muscles in the legs.
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I specifically started biking to work to save time- even though biking takes longer, it means I get all my exercise done during my commute. So IMHO it is a very efficient use of time. In fact, since I have always thought of getting myself to the office as sort of an unpaid work activity, I feel like exercising during my commute is a way to get that time back from my employer.
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BIKE IT
I have similar commute / time considerations
Even though biking does eat some time, I have found the biking 'improves the quality of the day' far beyond the 'lost' 20minutes or so.
The biking makes me happy, energetic, centered for the rest of the day. It improves the 'quality' of the day by at least 25%. I consider it a rather badass investment with many positive payouts.
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Time value was the main reason I always drove to work...35-40 minutes on bike vs. 8 minutes driving. That's an hour of time a day to save $2 in fuel. In addition, I need a car for other aspects of my life, so I would have owned a car regardless. Also, the winters here are brutal and summers are humid, so driving to work was a no brainer for me.
An 8 minute drive takes you 35-40 minutes? Are you on a tricycle?
7 miles of that was on highway, plus the time to clean up and change. I'm counting the entire commute time...not just the ride itself.
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Google maps is wildly underoptimistic about times to cycle somewhere. My commute is a little over 10 miles each way on the road in heavy traffic with lots of stop lights, and it takes me 40 minutes on a good day.
Do you have showers at your work?
Other than that I have to echo much of what the others have said. Mood wise, cycling to work is pretty wonderful. You don't realize how frustrating driving around every day until you've tried the alternative. The extra exercise is great as well. I lift weights several times a week in addition to commuting, and you'll find that you're strong enough to mix the two after a month or so of cycling. Being outside on a regular basis connects you very strongly to the seasons and the world as well.
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Being outside on a regular basis connects you very strongly to the seasons and the world as well.
That's why I drive a convertible sports car, which puts me in a far better mood than any bike ride ever could :)
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Do you belong to a gym? If so, how much time/money do you spend on that? Because biking will let you cut that out.
If all you do is cardio at the gym, sure.
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Being outside on a regular basis connects you very strongly to the seasons and the world as well.
That's why I drive a convertible sports car, which puts me in a far better mood than any bike ride ever could :)
Well kudos to you for driving with the top down in rain, snow, and biting cold. Usually I only see people cruising around in them on sunny days . . .
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Time value was the main reason I always drove to work...35-40 minutes on bike vs. 8 minutes driving. That's an hour of time a day to save $2 in fuel. In addition, I need a car for other aspects of my life, so I would have owned a car regardless. Also, the winters here are brutal and summers are humid, so driving to work was a no brainer for me.
An 8 minute drive takes you 35-40 minutes? Are you on a tricycle?
Depends on how much is highway and if you can take the same route. A 15-20 minute drive to work, would take me well over an hour, unless of course I wanted to ride my bike on the highway.
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Being outside on a regular basis connects you very strongly to the seasons and the world as well.
That's why I drive a convertible sports car, which puts me in a far better mood than any bike ride ever could :)
Well kudos to you for driving with the top down in rain, snow, and biting cold. Usually I only see people cruising around in them on sunny days . . .
Because biking in any of that is awesome.
Generally in the rain, no (but if you go fast enough the water goes over the top) but yeah, not much better than a crisp winter day bundled up, heater on full, top down.
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Does it really have to be either/or?
On days where your loved ones are being jerks: bike. On days they aren't and are happy to have you around: don't bike.
You already know the health, financial, and entertainment benefits to biking, and you're aware of the potential safety and time issues as well, so ultimately only you are going to make this decision for yourself. I get that you started the thread to open some discourse on the pros and cons of biking - but you already know the pros and cons and what works for you...
I would bike to work in a heartbeat if:
a) I were employed
b) I lived close enough to work and the commute wasn't dangerous in my eyes
Biking to the grocery store will likely always be out of the question for me unless I'm hurting for cash or I am just becoming way too fat and lazy all around. It would have to be a flat, safe ride less than a mile away.
But I'm also single, and probably lots of other variables that are irrelevant to you.
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Being outside on a regular basis connects you very strongly to the seasons and the world as well.
That's why I drive a convertible sports car, which puts me in a far better mood than any bike ride ever could :)
Well kudos to you for driving with the top down in rain, snow, and biting cold. Usually I only see people cruising around in them on sunny days . . .
Because biking in any of that is awesome.
Yes, it is.
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If you don't want to ride your bike, don't ride your bike.
Me? I think driving is awful. Spending 15-20 minutes twice a day in a car sounds miserable. My 7.5 mile commute takes about 25 minutes on average (faster on the way there, slower on the way back due to prevailing winds and a slight incline). Driving would probably take about that (maybe even longer on the way home) but if it was 10 minutes each way I still wouldn't do it often.
Oh, and my muscles are just fine.
+1. Also, the Google maps is really slow. Do you factor in getting to your parking space and to the building? With biking you head right to the door. So, my 7.5 miles driving DOOR-TO-DOOR is 25 minutes and my 7.5 miles bicycling is 25 minutes. I ride at about 15 mph, but the average is probable closer to 12-13.
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If you don't want to ride your bike, don't ride your bike.
Me? I think driving is awful. Spending 15-20 minutes twice a day in a car sounds miserable. My 7.5 mile commute takes about 25 minutes on average (faster on the way there, slower on the way back due to prevailing winds and a slight incline). Driving would probably take about that (maybe even longer on the way home) but if it was 10 minutes each way I still wouldn't do it often.
Oh, and my muscles are just fine.
+1. Also, the Google maps is really slow. Do you factor in getting to your parking space and to the building? With biking you head right to the door. So, my 7.5 miles driving DOOR-TO-DOOR is 25 minutes and my 7.5 miles bicycling is 25 minutes. I ride at about 15 mph, but the average is probable closer to 12-13.
Not to be a smartass, but if 7.5 mi take 25 min you ride at 18 mph.. If you're at 12 mph it takes 37 min, about the time it would take me, according to google. I'd love to do 18 mph, but really have no idea until I try. (Almost 30 km/hr, wow. I grew up biking in km/hr so have a better sense of how fast that is)
I tend to just to all-out when I bike, and like to think I'm in decent shape. If I have access to a shower I hope I could do it in less than 40 min, maybe 30? I don't compete in anything, I'm not fat, and think I'm ok as is so don't find the additional cardio particularly useful, but can't hurt. (but there will be butt hurt..)
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You keep mentioning that your butt hurts. This leads me to believe that there's something wrong with your bike. Properly adjusted you should be able to ride for 3-4 hours with no discomfort.
Some basic stuff to help you out:
Put your heels on both pedals. You want to keep raising the saddle height until you just start to come off the pedal on each side with your heels on both pedals. This will feel a little weird if you're used to riding with the saddle way too low, but you'll adjust to it. From this height you can put much more power down with less effort. The more power you put out through your legs, the less your weight is actually on your ass (less soreness).
Make sure that your saddle is level (or very close to level) with the ground. This prevents you from sliding around on the saddle (sliding forward tends to make your hands hurt, sliding backwards can cause you to keep having to shove your nuts into the saddle).
It's worth getting a pair of basic bike shorts. Yes, I know . . . they're skin tight. They might show off your wiener a bit (most are designed to minimize this though). They feel like you're wearing a diaper. That pad in the butt makes it more comfortable to ride over bumps and jarring ground though. They wick sweat away, so you don't get wet material grinding into your butt. They are designed so that you won't get any ass chafing from poorly placed seams. Totally a worthwhile buy.
When you go over bumpy ground, lift your ass off the saddle. This uses your knees as shock absorbers and will dramatically increase the comfort of your bike rides.
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Biking to and from work is a great way to start and end the work day. Your mood is lifted all day long. The additional daily exercise on top of lifting really pushed you to the next level. I like to ride HIIT style to help build some more muscle and shed more fat. You can also ride 2-3x a week and drop the crossfit if you want more time with your son.
At the end of the day, it is up to you. I gave you the reasons I love biking to work regularly.
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If you don't want to ride your bike, don't ride your bike.
Me? I think driving is awful. Spending 15-20 minutes twice a day in a car sounds miserable. My 7.5 mile commute takes about 25 minutes on average (faster on the way there, slower on the way back due to prevailing winds and a slight incline). Driving would probably take about that (maybe even longer on the way home) but if it was 10 minutes each way I still wouldn't do it often.
Oh, and my muscles are just fine.
+1. Also, the Google maps is really slow. Do you factor in getting to your parking space and to the building? With biking you head right to the door. So, my 7.5 miles driving DOOR-TO-DOOR is 25 minutes and my 7.5 miles bicycling is 25 minutes. I ride at about 15 mph, but the average is probable closer to 12-13.
Not to be a smartass, but if 7.5 mi take 25 min you ride at 18 mph.. If you're at 12 mph it takes 37 min, about the time it would take me, according to google. I'd love to do 18 mph, but really have no idea until I try. (Almost 30 km/hr, wow. I grew up biking in km/hr so have a better sense of how fast that is)
I tend to just to all-out when I bike, and like to think I'm in decent shape. If I have access to a shower I hope I could do it in less than 40 min, maybe 30? I don't compete in anything, I'm not fat, and think I'm ok as is so don't find the additional cardio particularly useful, but can't hurt. (but there will be butt hurt..)
Me no good at math. 25 minutes tho. 7.5 miles by auto and 7.3 by bike. Sorry for not being specific, as I rushed my answer. The point though is that it is very similar and really doesn't save as much as some might like, but there are other reasons to do it that surpass those two (time and money).
BTW - when we are in season my auto commute goes to 35-40 minutes and the bicycle is the same. When there is an accident on the roadways my bicycling is the same. When I come back from meetings during the day I beat the car drivers coming from the same meeting every time. We have had commuter challenges and the bike wins each time. If you are in the country not so much, but anytime there is congestion the bike is equal to or better than an auto.
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If you don't want to ride your bike, don't ride your bike.
Me? I think driving is awful. Spending 15-20 minutes twice a day in a car sounds miserable. My 7.5 mile commute takes about 25 minutes on average (faster on the way there, slower on the way back due to prevailing winds and a slight incline). Driving would probably take about that (maybe even longer on the way home) but if it was 10 minutes each way I still wouldn't do it often.
Oh, and my muscles are just fine.
+1. Also, the Google maps is really slow. Do you factor in getting to your parking space and to the building? With biking you head right to the door. So, my 7.5 miles driving DOOR-TO-DOOR is 25 minutes and my 7.5 miles bicycling is 25 minutes. I ride at about 15 mph, but the average is probable closer to 12-13.
Mine is door-to-door. Maybe add a minute to lock my bike up, and another minute or two to change. Morning ride is cool and usually not windy and the only hill is down, so I don't usually need to take an AM shower.
The way there is probably quicker on most days though. Average moving speed probably closer to 21 or 22, with merging onto a somewhat busy road and two stop lights I hit about half the time to slow me down. On the way back is a bit slower, but I usually add on. Probably around 18mph-ish average on my road bike. Oh, that makes a difference too. Road bike = faster. CX or mountain bike (for crappier and colder conditions) = slower.
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I work in 2 places; a hospital and surgery center, and my desire to bike commute depends on where I'm working, so I get it.
The hospital is at most a mile away. It takes about 3 minutes to get there in a car, 4 to 5 minutes by bike. No brainer, bike wins.
The surgery center is about 4 miles away. It takes about 6 minutes to get there by car, or about 18 minutes by bike. Sure, it's only a 12 minute difference, but I'm up at 0515 to make it on time by car. I don't want to start getting up at 0500, so most days I drive it.
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Not to be a smartass, but if 7.5 mi take 25 min you ride at 18 mph.. If you're at 12 mph it takes 37 min, about the time it would take me, according to google. I'd love to do 18 mph, but really have no idea until I try. (Almost 30 km/hr, wow. I grew up biking in km/hr so have a better sense of how fast that is)
I tend to just to all-out when I bike, and like to think I'm in decent shape. If I have access to a shower I hope I could do it in less than 40 min, maybe 30? I don't compete in anything, I'm not fat, and think I'm ok as is so don't find the additional cardio particularly useful, but can't hurt. (but there will be butt hurt..)
You said you did CrossFit. I'd think you can go faster than what Google Maps says. "Forging Elite Fitness" and all that jazz. For reference, Google says something like 40 mins AM and 45 mins PM for my ride.
I do compete a bit in cyclocross races in the fall. I find that cycling adds to core and leg strength and gives me more benefits than just cardio. CF is good stuff too. I like throwing it in to improve power endurance and strength on the bike. I do a couple WODs per week on my own. It helps with that upper body muscle worries that you were talking about, and I've found that my cycling is faster and stronger since I've started doing it.
I ride more than just my commute, and I do some side strength stuff. So commuting doesn't 100% replace my exercise, but that's my choice. It certainly could.
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You keep mentioning that your butt hurts. This leads me to believe that there's something wrong with your bike. Properly adjusted you should be able to ride for 3-4 hours with no discomfort.
Some basic stuff to help you out:
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I was mostly joking, but thanks for the ass-comfort recommendations. I rode to and from the gym once last week and my tailbone hurt pretty bad just from that. Think my seat is out of wack (leaning back?), but it's so rusted it's hard to adjust.. It's also definitely too low based on what you said. I've used those diaper-shorts before and they help so I'd need one of those. ANd maybe clip in bike shoes?
I grew up biking everywhere, up through college. But was never serious about it beyond transportation so not too into how it should be set up. And I cheaped out on a crappy bike so not sure that helps. I might need another thread on bikes if I decide to go through with this..
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You keep mentioning that your butt hurts. This leads me to believe that there's something wrong with your bike. Properly adjusted you should be able to ride for 3-4 hours with no discomfort.
Some basic stuff to help you out:
..
I was mostly joking, but thanks for the ass-comfort recommendations. I rode to and from the gym once last week and my tailbone hurt pretty bad just from that. Think my seat is out of wack (leaning back?), but it's so rusted it's hard to adjust.. It's also definitely too low based on what you said. I've used those diaper-shorts before and they help so I'd need one of those. ANd maybe clip in bike shoes?
I grew up biking everywhere, up through college. But was never serious about it beyond transportation so not too into how it should be set up. And I cheaped out on a crappy bike so not sure that helps. I might need another thread on bikes if I decide to go through with this..
Clipless pedals/shoes are a whole different can of worms.
They let you put more power to the pedals and be well secured to your bike so it's impossible for a foot to slide off (although this isn't really an issue if you use studded downhill style flat pedals) and it becomes much easier to jump your bike over small obstacles. The down side being that if you're not very comfortable already starting/stopping your bike they can be frustrating, they require special shoes that are often uncomfortable to walk around in, the special shoes fit pretty snugly so you need to buy overshoes for wet/cold weather, they're more expensive, until the unclipping motion becomes second nature you're at high risk of falling over at slow speeds and looking like an idiot, in the case of something unexpected happening (ice, snow, etc.) you're probably going to wipe out while attached to your bike because the unclipping action is slower than just putting a foot out. :P
Don't get a new bike yet. Use your crappy one for a while. It will serve you for a while and really help you get a feel for exactly what kind of new bike you're looking for. You can learn maintenance on it, knowing that if you really fuck something up it's not a huge loss. Worst case scenario you can use it as a winter/bad weather bike or just sell it later.
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I realize it won't be the case for everyone, but one cool thing about my situation is that my son's school is only a few blocks from work so I can spend MORE time with him by biking. I've bought & sold various items to use for this & now have a tandem that my 7 year old son rides on the back of 2-3 times a week. It takes longer than driving, but is time well spent. It takes less time than his school bus or the city bus for me. Outside of health benefits & costs (it does save a lot over time if you consider you should own the car longer since you drive your car that many miles less per year) I agree with others it's a great way to get some mental ME time. My attitude is improved when I give myself time to ride (and I don't do it quickly, it's about 9.5 miles to work & takes 40-45 minutes). When I can't ride, I walk at lunch for 30 minutes, which works similarly well for my mood.
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I realize it won't be the case for everyone, but one cool thing about my situation is that my son's school is only a few blocks from work so I can spend MORE time with him by biking. I've bought & sold various items to use for this & now have a tandem that my 7 year old son rides on the back of 2-3 times a week. It takes longer than driving, but is time well spent. It takes less time than his school bus or the city bus for me. Outside of health benefits & costs (it does save a lot over time if you consider you should own the car longer since you drive your car that many miles less per year) I agree with others it's a great way to get some mental ME time. My attitude is improved when I give myself time to ride (and I don't do it quickly, it's about 9.5 miles to work & takes 40-45 minutes). When I can't ride, I walk at lunch for 30 minutes, which works similarly well for my mood.
That's actually a thing I didn't mention. My son's daycare is ~1/2 mile in the wrong direction (work is 7 mi from daycare) and I drop off in the morning, my wife picks up. And his elementary school is just ~1 mi detour on my way to work. So especially once he starts school (4 years) I really want to drop him off by bike, rather than being those asshole parents idling in an SUV in line to pick up at school (Not that I own an SUV). That just seems so stupid and annoying.
So not sure it really counts as "family time" since we're biking, but a small part part of the commute would be with my son.
Of course at some point he can just walk the 1/2 mile himself, but how old do they have to be these days before that's allowed? 23?
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As with lots of things it takes some time to build up the habit of biking to work. Second the opinion of not getting new good bike yet, put some riding hours in and get a feel for it first. Depending on the bikes state and your abilities maybe take it to a bike shop for a tune up, a good chain and inflated tires make a huge difference.
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Being outside on a regular basis connects you very strongly to the seasons and the world as well.
That's why I drive a convertible sports car, which puts me in a far better mood than any bike ride ever could :)
Well kudos to you for driving with the top down in rain, snow, and biting cold. Usually I only see people cruising around in them on sunny days . . .
Because biking in any of that is awesome.
Yes, it is.
I have to agree with this.
I still get all the 'mood-enhancing' effects from my bike commute even when the rain is pouring down.
It's a funny thing though, I still feel a brief moment of dread as I'm about to step out the door... Some instinct is telling me I'm about to enter an unpleasant situation. But that completely disappears by the time I reach the end of my driveway, and I think to myself how foolish my hesitation was. In my early days the dread came on earlier, and lasted longer into my ride. I'm hoping that I will eventually ditch it all together.
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It's interesting to me--and I know this is mostly because the OP was asking about it in the time-saving context, but it's still interesting to me that so many people view it as "you can bike instead of joining the gym" or "you save time because biking can replace your cardio" etc. Like, you can also just do it as extra exercise. The goal doesn't have to be to do the bare minimum of exercise. (Personally I agree with the poster who said they like to bike because they hate being in the car.)
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Being outside on a regular basis connects you very strongly to the seasons and the world as well.
That's why I drive a convertible sports car, which puts me in a far better mood than any bike ride ever could :)
Well kudos to you for driving with the top down in rain, snow, and biting cold. Usually I only see people cruising around in them on sunny days . . .
Because biking in any of that is awesome.
Yes, it is.
I have to agree with this.
I still get all the 'mood-enhancing' effects from my bike commute even when the rain is pouring down.
It's a funny thing though, I still feel a brief moment of dread as I'm about to step out the door... Some instinct is telling me I'm about to enter an unpleasant situation. But that completely disappears by the time I reach the end of my driveway, and I think to myself how foolish my hesitation was. In my early days the dread came on earlier, and lasted longer into my ride. I'm hoping that I will eventually ditch it all together.
I believe the Velominati said it best in Rule #9 (NSFW language at the link, if you're worried about that type of thing: http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/
Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
Fair-weather riding is a luxury reserved for Sunday afternoons and wide boulevards. Those who ride in foul weather – be it cold, wet, or inordinately hot – are members of a special club of riders who, on the morning of a big ride, pull back the curtain to check the weather and, upon seeing rain falling from the skies, allow a wry smile to spread across their face. This is a rider who loves the work.
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I believe the Velominati said it best in Rule #9 (NSFW language at the link, if you're worried about that type of thing: http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/
Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
Fair-weather riding is a luxury reserved for Sunday afternoons and wide boulevards. Those who ride in foul weather – be it cold, wet, or inordinately hot – are members of a special club of riders who, on the morning of a big ride, pull back the curtain to check the weather and, upon seeing rain falling from the skies, allow a wry smile to spread across their face. This is a rider who loves the work.
Or, somewhat more pithily: "There is no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing."
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It's interesting to me--and I know this is mostly because the OP was asking about it in the time-saving context, but it's still interesting to me that so many people view it as "you can bike instead of joining the gym" or "you save time because biking can replace your cardio" etc. Like, you can also just do it as extra exercise. The goal doesn't have to be to do the bare minimum of exercise. (Personally I agree with the poster who said they like to bike because they hate being in the car.)
I look at it as "I'm going to ride X hours this week, I might as well do some of them during my commute." I have to get to and from work anyway, so I might as well take care of two things. Like I said though, I'll often add-on. My 25-30 minute ride home is often 60+ minutes.
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Part of why I like my eBike so much is that (while most of the time I use it as a regular bike), whenever I need to get somewhere fast or get somewhere with little/no sweat, I can just push the button and the motor takes over to a large extent. If I pedal along with it, I get where I'm going very fast. If I don't pedal along much, I get where I'm going with very little effort (and no sweat). eBiking gives me options that a regular bike just doesn't. Plus, some days I'm just feeling lazy and don't want to work that hard, and I figure a motor on an eBike beats hopping into my car.
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Part of why I like my eBike so much is that (while most of the time I use it as a regular bike), whenever I need to get somewhere fast or get somewhere with little/no sweat, I can just push the button and the motor takes over to a large extent. If I pedal along with it, I get where I'm going very fast. If I don't pedal along much, I get where I'm going with very little effort (and no sweat). eBiking gives me options that a regular bike just doesn't. Plus, some days I'm just feeling lazy and don't want to work that hard, and I figure a motor on an eBike beats hopping into my car.
I see you're in Denver. Are you one of those guys that flies by me on the trail from time to time and makes me feel bad about myself before I realize that you have a motor pushing you along? ;-)
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Part of why I like my eBike so much is that (while most of the time I use it as a regular bike), whenever I need to get somewhere fast or get somewhere with little/no sweat, I can just push the button and the motor takes over to a large extent. If I pedal along with it, I get where I'm going very fast. If I don't pedal along much, I get where I'm going with very little effort (and no sweat). eBiking gives me options that a regular bike just doesn't. Plus, some days I'm just feeling lazy and don't want to work that hard, and I figure a motor on an eBike beats hopping into my car.
I see you're in Denver. Are you one of those guys that flies by me on the trail from time to time and makes me feel bad about myself before I realize that you have a motor pushing you along? ;-)
Dude! Fat guy on a bike with cruiser bars and a basket on the front did this to me the other day near the top of a hill. He passes, I look over, I'm like WTF? That guy is a beast! Oh wait, no he's not, lol!
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Yep, in Denver. Unfortunately I hurt my back earlier this year, so haven't been on the bike (or even able to walk) much this year so far :( All this talk of biking is making me sad....
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I see you're in Denver. Are you one of those guys that flies by me on the trail from time to time and makes me feel bad about myself before I realize that you have a motor pushing you along? ;-)
Dude! Fat guy on a bike with cruiser bars and a basket on the front did this to me the other day near the top of a hill. He passes, I look over, I'm like WTF? That guy is a beast! Oh wait, no he's not, lol!
I do bridge laps over the St. Johns River regularly as part of my training. One night a couple of years ago I started up the bridge and looked over to see a 50ish, chubby guy giving me "the look" as he pedaled his fat tired hybrid up the ramp. I stood up, he pedaled furiously, and as we ascended, the gap between us widened. I blew up just short of the crest as he cruised over the top victoriously. Then I noticed that big hub motor...
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I find it interesting that in most places it takes longer to drive than to bike. Where I live, I've found that biking is consistently the fastest way to get around, largely due to traffic. It is faster than driving (by a small-medium amount, depending on rush hours) and is much, much faster than mass transit. My bike commute is 20 minutes or 35 minutes, depending on where I'm going (4 miles or 7 miles one way).
For me, the benefits have been amazing (my situation is unusual, YMMV):
1. I was able to sell my car.
2. I now get a minimum of 40 minutes of exercise a day - I was struggling to exercise before. Consequently, I sleep better.
3. I've lost 20 pounds.
4. I'm in a better mood at work and when I get home. It separates the two.
5. I hated driving. I always knew I hated it, but I didn't realize how much until I was only doing it rarely (and now never).
6. I spend time with my kids on mass transit when we go places - the time is of much higher quality than time spent in a car.
My point is that I agree with the other posters that the only way you'll know if it is worth it is to try it. It will have benefits and drawbacks that you don't expect specific to your life and situation. I'd have never expected it to have such a positive impact for me- I was just trying to save money.
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If you like riding a bike, it can make sense.
If you don't like riding a bike then it doesn't make sense.
Do what you like when the economic result isn't a big difference.
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I'm 3 weeks into biking to work - 26 mile round trip - not quite every day yet (2, 3 and 4 days a week respectively) but I love it so far. Get 2 hours of cardio I was not getting in the past, feel much more alive when I get in to work and home and love not sitting in the car in traffic. I can take a reasonably quiet side street route or a bike trail (more relaxing) now it is light when I set off at 5:15am.
I live in the Chicago suburbs so think year round bike commuting is going to be a little tough but if I can get 6 - 8 months of using my bike more than my car I'll be really happy.
No kids to worry about getting home to here - I still get home before the wife and the dog is still sleeping when I get home so no negatives about taking 20 minutes more to get home than using the car!
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I can't believe your Prius costs you just 20 cents a mile. Maybe immediate out of pocket cost -- gas -- but are you figuring in depreciation, regular maintenance like oil changes, consumables like tires and brakes, plus inevitable repairs as the car gets older? All these things will catch up with you over time.
Even the IRS allows what, 54 cents a mile?
What about insurance? What if eliminating your driving to work could put you in a lower mileage, cheaper policy class? (It has for me in the past.) And if you're in a higher cost state, taxes and registration for a car less than 10 years old is not insignificant either.
Learning to account for the typically unaccounted-for is a lot of what the MMM community is about.
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I can't believe your Prius costs you just 20 cents a mile. Maybe immediate out of pocket cost -- gas -- but are you figuring in depreciation, regular maintenance like oil changes, consumables like tires and brakes, plus inevitable repairs as the car gets older? All these things will catch up with you over time.
With the current cost of fuel ($2/gallon), my non-prius hatchback is costing me about 6 cents per mile if all you look at is gas. Factoring in depreciation/replacement, maintenance, consumables, registration, and insurance I am at only 44 cents/mile, with about 17 cents per mile going toward depreciation/replacement.
Some cars are really cheap to drive - but I ride my bike for all of the non-monetary reasons anyway.
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I can't believe your Prius costs you just 20 cents a mile. Maybe immediate out of pocket cost -- gas -- but are you figuring in depreciation, regular maintenance like oil changes, consumables like tires and brakes, plus inevitable repairs as the car gets older? All these things will catch up with you over time.
With the current cost of fuel ($2/gallon), my non-prius hatchback is costing me about 6 cents per mile if all you look at is gas. Factoring in depreciation/replacement, maintenance, consumables, registration, and insurance I am at only 44 cents/mile, with about 17 cents per mile going toward depreciation/replacement.
Some cars are really cheap to drive - but I ride my bike for all of the non-monetary reasons anyway.
Yeah. It's a while since I did it, and had to make some assumptions, but 20 cemt/mi is all in. Assumed lasting to 200k, then zero value give me 8 c/mi for example with what we paid for it. Tires every 50k. Biggest guess is of course repair costs. The gov rate is very high accounting for financing etc.
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Part of why I like my eBike so much is that (while most of the time I use it as a regular bike), whenever I need to get somewhere fast or get somewhere with little/no sweat, I can just push the button and the motor takes over to a large extent. If I pedal along with it, I get where I'm going very fast. If I don't pedal along much, I get where I'm going with very little effort (and no sweat). eBiking gives me options that a regular bike just doesn't. Plus, some days I'm just feeling lazy and don't want to work that hard, and I figure a motor on an eBike beats hopping into my car.
+1 for me and that's what gets me to do 95% of my needed trips with the e-bike or standard peddle bike. Odd that people driving hybrids or full electric cars don't get the "hey, that's cheating comment" though. My ebike is essentially the same thing if I use the motor 100% (rare), but way cheaper, better for the environment, gets me outside (not in a conditioned car), requires way less infrastructure, etc. etc.
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I can't believe your Prius costs you just 20 cents a mile. Maybe immediate out of pocket cost -- gas -- but are you figuring in depreciation, regular maintenance like oil changes, consumables like tires and brakes, plus inevitable repairs as the car gets older? All these things will catch up with you over time.
With the current cost of fuel ($2/gallon), my non-prius hatchback is costing me about 6 cents per mile if all you look at is gas. Factoring in depreciation/replacement, maintenance, consumables, registration, and insurance I am at only 44 cents/mile, with about 17 cents per mile going toward depreciation/replacement.
Some cars are really cheap to drive - but I ride my bike for all of the non-monetary reasons anyway.
Yeah. It's a while since I did it, and had to make some assumptions, but 20 cemt/mi is all in. Assumed lasting to 200k, then zero value give me 8 c/mi for example with what we paid for it. Tires every 50k. Biggest guess is of course repair costs. The gov rate is very high accounting for financing etc.
I suspect if you tracked every penny you spend on the car the total cost would be more than 20 cents/mile.
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I'm 3 weeks into biking to work - 26 mile round trip - not quite every day yet (2, 3 and 4 days a week respectively) but I love it so far. Get 2 hours of cardio I was not getting in the past, feel much more alive when I get in to work and home and love not sitting in the car in traffic. I can take a reasonably quiet side street route or a bike trail (more relaxing) now it is light when I set off at 5:15am.
I live in the Chicago suburbs so think year round bike commuting is going to be a little tough but if I can get 6 - 8 months of using my bike more than my car I'll be really happy.
No kids to worry about getting home to here - I still get home before the wife and the dog is still sleeping when I get home so no negatives about taking 20 minutes more to get home than using the car!
Very good! For more inspiration you might want to start reading bikeforums commuter or living car free threads. Of course, MMM has that great post on riding in winter (I think that is the one that got me here!).
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I can't believe your Prius costs you just 20 cents a mile. Maybe immediate out of pocket cost -- gas -- but are you figuring in depreciation, regular maintenance like oil changes, consumables like tires and brakes, plus inevitable repairs as the car gets older? All these things will catch up with you over time.
With the current cost of fuel ($2/gallon), my non-prius hatchback is costing me about 6 cents per mile if all you look at is gas. Factoring in depreciation/replacement, maintenance, consumables, registration, and insurance I am at only 44 cents/mile, with about 17 cents per mile going toward depreciation/replacement.
Some cars are really cheap to drive - but I ride my bike for all of the non-monetary reasons anyway.
Yeah. It's a while since I did it, and had to make some assumptions, but 20 cemt/mi is all in. Assumed lasting to 200k, then zero value give me 8 c/mi for example with what we paid for it. Tires every 50k. Biggest guess is of course repair costs. The gov rate is very high accounting for financing etc.
I suspect if you tracked every penny you spend on the car the total cost would be more than 20 cents/mile.
Maybe?
I looked up my spreadsheet. It's actually 25 c/mile. This includes:
depreciation: $14k/157k mi (0 value at 200k)
gas: $3/50 mi
oil $50/5k
tires: $400/40k
repair $1k/20k (this is the big ??)
registration, state test, insure etc is 2c/mi
Repairs was the big guesstimate. Doubling that increase cost to 30 c/mi. I feel these are reasonable/conservative, but feel free to enlighten me..
One thing I realized I didn't account for is that if I bike to work I have to eat more to replace the calories burned. According to http://www.bicycling.com/training/weight-loss/cycling-calories-burned-calculator (http://www.bicycling.com/training/weight-loss/cycling-calories-burned-calculator), a 1 hour bike ride will burn 771 calories! Depending on where I look, that could for example mean eating about one pound of chicken breast per day. That's $5-6 extra, per day! Totally wiping out any savings from not driving. It would be much cheaper to replace it with peanut butter, that would only run $1.10 per day. But in any case there will be an additional cost to biking. And of course there is bike cost and maintenance
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Driving is a pretty damn nice way to get around if you value time with your family. There is zero plausible financial case for biking instead of driving, unless you are able to own one less car as a result. The case for biking is that it's a way to get exercise while borrowing your commute time to do part of it. It's not even better for the environment unless maybe if you're vegan.
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Driving is a pretty damn nice way to get around if you value time with your family. There is zero plausible financial case for biking instead of driving, unless you are able to own one less car as a result. The case for biking is that it's a way to get exercise while borrowing your commute time to do part of it. It's not even better for the environment unless maybe if you're vegan.
There is so much fail in this statement I'm not sure I have enough time to go through it all. Maybe you should just add that bikes don't belong on the roads and round out your sentiments.
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Driving is a pretty damn nice way to get around if you value time with your family. There is zero plausible financial case for biking instead of driving, unless you are able to own one less car as a result. The case for biking is that it's a way to get exercise while borrowing your commute time to do part of it. It's not even better for the environment unless maybe if you're vegan.
This is the realization I'm coming to. Unless I really want to burn fat (I don't, I'm trying to gain weight) or work up huge legs (I don't) there's not really much benefit. Which is kinda surprising considering MMM touting biking as an amazing thing, and all the "bike to work" push and general hype around it. I was told there would be benefits dammit! :)
I'm not sold on the happiness/feeling better argument either. I don't particularly hate driving, it's fine usually. And from what I can remember biking doesn't really make me feel good or anything either.
The main question now is whether my new job has a shower, I'm not 100% sure. If they don't biking is out of the question anyway. It gets hot here, and I sweat really badly.
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bikes don't belong on the roads
Agreed.
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l72/ChrisStack22/Dirty1.jpg)
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Driving is a pretty damn nice way to get around if you value time with your family. There is zero plausible financial case for biking instead of driving, unless you are able to own one less car as a result. The case for biking is that it's a way to get exercise while borrowing your commute time to do part of it. It's not even better for the environment unless maybe if you're vegan.
There is so much fail in this statement I'm not sure I have enough time to go through it all. Maybe you should just add that bikes don't belong on the roads and round out your sentiments.
Hmm. Let's see. I don't have to pay for parking, I don't have to pay for gas, less wear and tear on the vehicle, I don't spew out CO2, and there is one less car for traffic. And I get exercise and spin out the cobwebs on the way home. AND I can pedal to errands for more efficiency on the way home.
Yep, no benefits.
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I have an 8 mile bike ride that takes 45 minutes. Driving takes 30 minutes. I like biking, but I don't know if it's worth 30 minutes a day. At the end of the week of biking, I take four gallons of regular gasoline, produced in Saudia Arabia, in a steel drum and light it on fire, just to make the comparison fair. Still not sure about it.
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Driving is a pretty damn nice way to get around if you value time with your family. There is zero plausible financial case for biking instead of driving, unless you are able to own one less car as a result. The case for biking is that it's a way to get exercise while borrowing your commute time to do part of it. It's not even better for the environment unless maybe if you're vegan.
So, just to pick at one part of this post . . . I don't understand your last sentence at all.
The average car uses an ICE which is significantly less efficient than the drivetrain of a bike to move thousands of pounds (rather than a couple hundred) while also wasting power on daytime running lights, power for a stereo and other electronics, fans and blowers, etc. A car is less aerodynamic that the small profile of a guy on a bike. Using a bike is going to be more efficient than a car from a power consumption point of view, 100% of the time.
Then we get into the vegan part. Again, not quite following you. We have person A, who eats 2000 calories a day (vegan, omnivore, it really doesn't matter). Person A goes bike commuting and burns 500 calories. Person A could:
- eat two cups of boiled lentils
- eat four or five tablespoons of peanut butter
- eat half a cup of hummus and some vegetables
- eat a peanut butter and jam sandwich
There are obviously millions more choices. None of them are going to break the bank, or are significantly environmentally damaging. There's no difference if Person A is a vegan or not.
So, WTF did you mean?
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Driving is a pretty damn nice way to get around if you value time with your family. There is zero plausible financial case for biking instead of driving, unless you are able to own one less car as a result. The case for biking is that it's a way to get exercise while borrowing your commute time to do part of it. It's not even better for the environment unless maybe if you're vegan.
So, just to pick at one part of this post . . . I don't understand your last sentence at all.
There are obviously millions more choices. None of them are going to break the bank, or are significantly environmentally damaging. There's no difference if Person A is a vegan or not.
So, WTF did you mean?
I assume he meant something like eating an extra pound of chicken to get the extra 800-1000 calories. I'm too lazy to look up the CO2 emissions per pound of chicken vs a 15 mile drive..
Sorry to say, but personally I don't really care much about the "saving the planet" feelgood aspect. If I don't ruin the environment someone else will anyway. What I do in my life will have 0.00000001% impact on the inevitable destruction of the earth so why bother. Now I don't throw shit in nature, but I don't believe in driving less to save the world either, sorry.
edit: found another option for your list:
- eat 110 hardboiled eggs ($28).
And per my source you'd need to eat 1.5 cup of hummus. About $3-4 worth
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My sedan is a ULEV (ultra low emissions vehicle) and I drive it about 15 miles a day, using about 2/3rds gallons of gas. I'm not losing any sleep over the environmental impact of doing so.
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Driving is a pretty damn nice way to get around if you value time with your family. There is zero plausible financial case for biking instead of driving, unless you are able to own one less car as a result. The case for biking is that it's a way to get exercise while borrowing your commute time to do part of it. It's not even better for the environment unless maybe if you're vegan.
I think a lot of people are imagining that biking to work HAS to take hours/be a lot of work when, in fact, it can save a lot of time. If I drove to/from work (I never would - parking is too expensive) I would lose about twenty minutes a day (20 minutes each way on the bike vs. 30 minutes in the car). I could live or work a few miles further away and still come out ahead with biking. I know that's not true for everyone! But it is true for me (and for something like 8% of the commuters in my city).
I will admit that I do like it this way, which is one of the reasons I live and work where I live and work. I don't enjoy spending time in the car, partly because my car is small and uncomfortable and smells bad when it rains. So maybe one of the other benefits of bike commuting is that even if it doesn't let you get rid of your car, it lets you get more time out of a crappy car because the things that annoy you about your car don't annoy you *every* day.
I really don't care about the exercise part.
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And per my source you'd need to eat 1.5 cup of hummus. About $3-4 worth
You are overpaying for your hummus.
I made ten cups of hummus today for about three dollars. Dried chickpeas cost next to nothing, you need a bit of salt, a bit of cumin, some tahini paste, lemon juice and garlic. It freezes really well, so we do a big batch every month or so.
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Yep, in Denver. Unfortunately I hurt my back earlier this year, so haven't been on the bike (or even able to walk) much this year so far :( All this talk of biking is making me sad....
That happened to me also. I didn't bike for two years due to back issues.Then I realized I had to buy a different bike seat after x rays showed the real injuries. Trying to utlize what wasn't damaged such as my "sit bones"/ Ironically found a two dotted seat at a thrift store for $3 a few months ago. Sorry offhand I don't know the brand but my husband knows it. Funny....The gel cover for this "two dot seat/saddle" I bought for $3 costs $45 but still, to buy this seat new without a gel cover runs $150 or so. So I was ecstatic!
It is two dots...round dots which only allow for me to sit on my "sit bones". After seeing an indept MRI/Xray I saw where my behind could be utilized and how to avoid the damaged parts. Bad part is...the two dot seat difficult to manuver. So I ride it once a week to give my back and other damaged areas a break. Otherwise my GP said to buy a rekumbent bike. She doesn't exercise so really didn't know much but it was a good idea. And I am still open to it but don't want to spend the $$ now.
Then use a split seat the other two times. I must ride 3 days a week in order to stay in shape though my body can only handle two days a week of riding on a split seat. So the two dots mean all I do is ride out in the wilderness on the paved roads so I am not turning any corners and stuff. But it keeps me in shape. SO once a week I change out the split seat to the two dotted seat. But soon will keep the two dotted seat on one bike, then the other seat on the other bike. Easier that way. Just a thought...
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I have an 8 mile bike ride that takes 45 minutes. Driving takes 30 minutes. I like biking, but I don't know if it's worth 30 minutes a day. At the end of the week of biking, I take four gallons of regular gasoline, produced in Saudia Arabia, in a steel drum and light it on fire, just to make the comparison fair. Still not sure about it.
Don't forget the health benefits of riding. Mentally you have to be doing better and regarding your physical body, who knows what biking is warding off for later in life. And it allows you to eat a little more without gaining weight
An extra 30 minutes per day to get all of that isn't that much really. JMHO :)
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And per my source you'd need to eat 1.5 cup of hummus. About $3-4 worth
You are overpaying for your hummus.
I made ten cups of hummus today for about three dollars. Dried chickpeas cost next to nothing, you need a bit of salt, a bit of cumin, some tahini paste, lemon juice and garlic. It freezes really well, so we do a big batch every month or so.
I've read about that, but decided it wasn't worth the hassle. Don't eat that much hummus, and don't have room in the freezer. But if I start biking and need 1.5 cups a day maybe I need to.. Store brand is $3 for 10 Oz.
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According to http://www.bicycling.com/training/weight-loss/cycling-calories-burned-calculator (http://www.bicycling.com/training/weight-loss/cycling-calories-burned-calculator), a 1 hour bike ride will burn 771 calories!
You'll have to pedal pretty hard to burn those calories. 600 is probably more realistic for an easy commuting pace.
But seriously: ride your bike to work. It will mak you feel awesome in so many ways. 7 miles is a pretty short distance, no need to dress in special clothes for that. No need for clicky pedals either.
Just get a decent hybrid bike with comfortable/sporty body position, fenders and lights.
You could als consider driving to work, leave your car over ther, ride back home, ride to work the next day, drive home etc.
Or bike commute 2 or 3 days a week. Or when you feel like it, when the wheather's nice etc etc.
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I would skip the clip in shoes. They are expensive and unnecessary and inconvenient for your average commuter.
Like several people above, I bike to have more time with my family. It takes longer than driving, but not by as much as the workouts I would otherwise do.
Also, we don't watch tv in our house. I don't believe the "not enough time" complaints from anyone who deliberately wastes their life watching television. If you have enough time to sit glassy eyed staring at pretty pictures, you have enough time to bike through nature. People who choose otherwise are just being lazy and making excuses for it.
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Also, we don't watch tv in our house. I don't believe the "not enough time" complaints from anyone who deliberately wastes their life watching television. If you have enough time to sit glassy eyed staring at pretty pictures, you have enough time to bike through nature. People who choose otherwise are just being lazy and making excuses for it.
Almost all the TV watching in our house is done between about 930PM and 11PM after my daughter goes to bed. Aside from reading or screwing (both of which also take place at this time) little else productive is going to occur then anyways.
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My bike commute is 4.7 miles. My ride time is 20-25 minutes, so I plan 40 minutes to include time to change. In my case, I can leave 15 minutes later by bike than I can if I'm catching the bus (but transit gets me to my desk about 10 minutes earlier). When my wife has dropped me off, the drive in has taken about 15 minutes (sometimes 20 minutes for drive home due to traffic). I enjoy the regularly scheduled exercise which provides decent tone for arms as well as legs if you like to ride somewhat aggressiviely in addition to the excellent cardio workout (not much help for core strength). I'd never considered the value of example to family; however, my dad was a cycle commuter (I'm still using a rack, panier, and trunk bag that he used) and my high school job was delivering newspapers by bike. For me, biking to work is significant to being a one-car family (I'd much rather bike than drive in traffic, but transit vs. driving in traffic is not such an easy choice). I also agree that bike shorts (and gloves) make a difference (if you don't want the skin tight look, get baggy shorts with a cycling liner).
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I have a similar situation: 15 minutes driving, 50 minutes biking (40 minutes on my way back since it's downhill). I used to run 3 days a week before lunch, and I don't anymore due to my bike ride. It also helps wake me up in the morning. It doesn't take time away from being with my partner, since he tends to get home later than me when I take my car. However, if I had children, I might be more opposed to the 1h30 bike commute. Perhaps alternating days is a good compromise?
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I would start with biking one day a week and see how you like that day compared to the other four days of driving. Personally I work inside without windows, so biking my kid to school is the highlight of my day b/c I get an overdose of fresh air and sunshine, it's like medicine (and my quads/glutes are killer). Also regarding CrossFit, isn't the whole point of CF to provide functional training? I can't think of an exercise quite as functional as getting your ass around town via bicycle (except maybe walking? running? but time-value-of-money right?). I know for me operating a bicycle to transport myself from point A to point B is a lot more practical in my life than practicing my tire flipping and rope climbing skillz. And the money you'd save by quitting CF could buy you a new bike every month. My commuter bike was $100 at Target, still going 5 years later and now has a baby seat on it. No fancy clips needed. If you want to spend more time with your kids, why not get a couple tires and ropes in your backyard and do a CF workout together at home?
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Doesn’t seem to make sense for you (other than enjoyment), I’d value your time at this occasion and drive.
Sam
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I would skip the clip in shoes. They are expensive and unnecessary and inconvenient for your average commuter.
Like several people above, I bike to have more time with my family. It takes longer than driving, but not by as much as the workouts I would otherwise do.
Also, we don't watch tv in our house. I don't believe the "not enough time" complaints from anyone who deliberately wastes their life watching television. If you have enough time to sit glassy eyed staring at pretty pictures, you have enough time to bike through nature. People who choose otherwise are just being lazy and making excuses for it.
I tend to agree for the shorter distance or flat rides. I go to the gym or store (4 miles round trip) on a single speed beach cruiser and pedals or bike weight is meaningless. In fact it's nicer to *NOT* take a second pair of shoes with me, or ride in an 'aero' position, etc. However my ride to work is 20 miles round trip and no question the efficiency of the clipless pedals/shoes and a decent bike is worth it. You can get a pair of SPD shoes for $40-$60 and they last YEARS. (I've had my current sidi's for over a decade) Yes you need pedals as well, shimano m520's are like $25-$30 so you're looking at $65-$90 for a setup that will greatly improve efficiency on longer rides, climbing, etc.
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Analyzing the time value of a bike commute is missing the point of embracing mustachianism, imo. I'll admit that I engaged in similar mental gymnastics to try to justify buying a prius or some other consumer driven work around to a "problem" with a very simple solution.
Here are two MMM posts that helped push me into embracing the bike commute:
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/12/05/muscle-over-motor/
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/04/22/curing-your-clown-like-car-habit/
There are plenty of ways to start small - every other day at first, drive half way and bike the rest, ebiking, etc. For me, the health and financial benefits are secondary to the mental strength that I have gained. Somehow making a bike routine a normal, accepted part of my day has given me more energy at work and more endurance and energy for hobbies on my time off. Humans are creatures of habit, and if you are not controlling your routine, it is controlling you. Embracing the "hardship" of a bike commute as a part of your daily routine gives you mental fortitude that makes everything else in life easier.
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Embracing the "hardship" of a bike commute as a part of your daily routine gives you mental fortitude that makes everything else in life easier.
So is bike commuting a hardship that makes it tough, or an exploding volcano of awesomeness that makes you deliriously happy? Because you bike dorks can't have it both ways.
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I would skip the clip in shoes. They are expensive and unnecessary and inconvenient for your average commuter.
Like several people above, I bike to have more time with my family. It takes longer than driving, but not by as much as the workouts I would otherwise do.
Also, we don't watch tv in our house. I don't believe the "not enough time" complaints from anyone who deliberately wastes their life watching television. If you have enough time to sit glassy eyed staring at pretty pictures, you have enough time to bike through nature. People who choose otherwise are just being lazy and making excuses for it.
I tend to agree for the shorter distance or flat rides. I go to the gym or store (4 miles round trip) on a single speed beach cruiser and pedals or bike weight is meaningless. In fact it's nicer to *NOT* take a second pair of shoes with me, or ride in an 'aero' position, etc. However my ride to work is 20 miles round trip and no question the efficiency of the clipless pedals/shoes and a decent bike is worth it. You can get a pair of SPD shoes for $40-$60 and they last YEARS. (I've had my current sidi's for over a decade) Yes you need pedals as well, shimano m520's are like $25-$30 so you're looking at $65-$90 for a setup that will greatly improve efficiency on longer rides, climbing, etc.
I regularly rode 50-60 kms in sneakers and studded flats last year. No problems climbing hills, no problems with efficiency. With clipless shoes I go faster sprinting away from a light, and seem to be able to put out more power going up a hill.
I would not recommend them to someone who is new to cycling . . . there is a learning curve. You will probably fall off your bike at some point because of the pedals, and you really don't want this to be in traffic. You do have to spend extra money on shoes and pedals. You have to position the cleat on the bottom of your shoes properly, or it can cause all sorts of strange problems/injuries.
So is bike commuting a hardship that makes it tough, or an exploding volcano of awesomeness that makes you deliriously happy? Because you bike dorks can't have it both ways.
It's a hardship that makes you tough, and once you're tough it becomes a source of delirious happiness.
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It's a hardship that makes you tough
What if you're already tough? I do plenty of DIY stuff (I'll be spending Memorial Day weekend digging out my sewer line by hand for instance), and I served in the military for several years, for crissakes. But the biking mafia acts like the only way to really be happy, or tough, or physically fit, or frugal, or what have you, is with a bike. It's horseshit. It's A way, not THE way.
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It's a hardship that makes you tough
What if you're already tough? I do plenty of DIY stuff (I'll be spending Memorial Day weekend digging out my sewer line by hand for instance), and I served in the military for several years, for crissakes. But the biking mafia acts like the only way to really be happy, or tough, or physically fit, or frugal, or what have you, is with a bike. It's horseshit. It's A way, not THE way.
I suspect the biking mafia acts that way because it's SOOOOOO easy to get a rise out of you. For every one person in this thread that is taking a hardcore stance there are about 10 who are saying "do whatever the heck you want." But that's boring and doesn't get reactions.
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It's a hardship that makes you tough
What if you're already tough? I do plenty of DIY stuff (I'll be spending Memorial Day weekend digging out my sewer line by hand for instance), and I served in the military for several years, for crissakes. But the biking mafia acts like the only way to really be happy, or tough, or physically fit, or frugal, or what have you, is with a bike. It's horseshit. It's A way, not THE way.
I suspect the biking mafia acts that way because it's SOOOOOO easy to get a rise out of you. For every one person in this thread that is taking a hardcore stance there are about 10 who are saying "do whatever the heck you want." But that's boring and doesn't get reactions.
It's not just this thread I'm referring to. MMM himself has a long history of wildly overstating the effects of bikes on things like finances, and I don't think I've ever engaged him on it. He's not doing it to get a rise out of me.
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Biking can save a ton of money if it does not mean a rapidly depreciating car is sitting unused. The key do saving money by biking is reducing automotive costs (since you don't use a car as much you buy a cheaper car or own fewer of them to reduce depreciation costs in addition to not having to fill the tank as often). Many cyclists simply enjoy cycling (or detest driving). Many people get much more excercise if they make excercise part of their routine transportation. Many people overestimate the extra time cycling will take them because they do not recognize that some of the extra time it takes initially is due to inefficencies of changing a routine. If you're sure than none of these statements apply to you, then don't bike; however, I personally think people should give it a good try to see if it is an exploding volcano of awesomeness to them.
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It's a hardship that makes you tough
What if you're already tough? I do plenty of DIY stuff (I'll be spending Memorial Day weekend digging out my sewer line by hand for instance), and I served in the military for several years, for crissakes. But the biking mafia acts like the only way to really be happy, or tough, or physically fit, or frugal, or what have you, is with a bike. It's horseshit. It's A way, not THE way.
I suspect the biking mafia acts that way because it's SOOOOOO easy to get a rise out of you. For every one person in this thread that is taking a hardcore stance there are about 10 who are saying "do whatever the heck you want." But that's boring and doesn't get reactions.
It's not just this thread I'm referring to. MMM himself has a long history of wildly overstating the effects of bikes on things like finances, and I don't think I've ever engaged him on it. He's not doing it to get a rise out of me.
Not to get a rise out of you personally, but to get a rise out of people in general? I absolutely think he is. He's a rabble-rousing kind of guy.
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It's a hardship that makes you tough
What if you're already tough? I do plenty of DIY stuff (I'll be spending Memorial Day weekend digging out my sewer line by hand for instance), and I served in the military for several years, for crissakes. But the biking mafia acts like the only way to really be happy, or tough, or physically fit, or frugal, or what have you, is with a bike. It's horseshit. It's A way, not THE way.
Well, yeah. There are plenty of ways to be happy. Pick one that you like.
Cycling has a unique set of benefits, which I think have been well covered in this and various other threads. If you don't think that you would benefit from the extra exercise, have a commute where there's significant time savings driving, get plenty of outdoors time in other ways, are sticking to circumstances that prevent you from saving money cycling, and just generally don't enjoy cycling at all . . . then do something else.
Cycling is very often dismissed out of hand without really thinking about the many positives simply because it's not a common form of transportation. That's why you'll find many people on this board quick to jump out in defense of riding a bike. It's not because they want you to be miserable and pedaling, but because they want to share the good times.
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Driving is a pretty damn nice way to get around if you value time with your family. There is zero plausible financial case for biking instead of driving, unless you are able to own one less car as a result. The case for biking is that it's a way to get exercise while borrowing your commute time to do part of it. It's not even better for the environment unless maybe if you're vegan.
So, just to pick at one part of this post . . . I don't understand your last sentence at all.
There are obviously millions more choices. None of them are going to break the bank, or are significantly environmentally damaging. There's no difference if Person A is a vegan or not.
So, WTF did you mean?
I assume he meant something like eating an extra pound of chicken to get the extra 800-1000 calories. I'm too lazy to look up the CO2 emissions per pound of chicken vs a 15 mile drive..
Sorry to say, but personally I don't really care much about the "saving the planet" feelgood aspect. If I don't ruin the environment someone else will anyway. What I do in my life will have 0.00000001% impact on the inevitable destruction of the earth so why bother. Now I don't throw shit in nature, but I don't believe in driving less to save the world either, sorry.
edit: found another option for your list:
- eat 110 hardboiled eggs ($28).
And per my source you'd need to eat 1.5 cup of hummus. About $3-4 worth
110 hardboiled eggs?
That's like 7700 calories.
500 calories is only like 7 whole eggs.
Or 29 and change egg whites.
edit- I have nothing really to add to the biking situation- I live 5.5 miles from work and drive every day- I have multiple stops after work and taking a bike will make my schedule impossible and I'm not willing to trade what I do now to ride a bike.
I wish I could- but it would be a 200-300$ investment for riding to work 2-3 days a week. not worth it for me.
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Driving is a pretty damn nice way to get around if you value time with your family. There is zero plausible financial case for biking instead of driving, unless you are able to own one less car as a result. The case for biking is that it's a way to get exercise while borrowing your commute time to do part of it. It's not even better for the environment unless maybe if you're vegan.
So, just to pick at one part of this post . . . I don't understand your last sentence at all.
There are obviously millions more choices. None of them are going to break the bank, or are significantly environmentally damaging. There's no difference if Person A is a vegan or not.
So, WTF did you mean?
I assume he meant something like eating an extra pound of chicken to get the extra 800-1000 calories. I'm too lazy to look up the CO2 emissions per pound of chicken vs a 15 mile drive..
Sorry to say, but personally I don't really care much about the "saving the planet" feelgood aspect. If I don't ruin the environment someone else will anyway. What I do in my life will have 0.00000001% impact on the inevitable destruction of the earth so why bother. Now I don't throw shit in nature, but I don't believe in driving less to save the world either, sorry.
edit: found another option for your list:
- eat 110 hardboiled eggs ($28).
And per my source you'd need to eat 1.5 cup of hummus. About $3-4 worth
110 hardboiled eggs?
That's like 7700 calories.
500 calories is only like 7 whole eggs.
Or 29 and change egg whites.
You're right. I didn't notice that the stupid site I used had egg WHITES as the first result. Who the hell only eat whites??
So 10 eggs then. $2.50
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Driving is a pretty damn nice way to get around if you value time with your family. There is zero plausible financial case for biking instead of driving, unless you are able to own one less car as a result. The case for biking is that it's a way to get exercise while borrowing your commute time to do part of it. It's not even better for the environment unless maybe if you're vegan.
So, just to pick at one part of this post . . . I don't understand your last sentence at all.
There are obviously millions more choices. None of them are going to break the bank, or are significantly environmentally damaging. There's no difference if Person A is a vegan or not.
So, WTF did you mean?
I assume he meant something like eating an extra pound of chicken to get the extra 800-1000 calories. I'm too lazy to look up the CO2 emissions per pound of chicken vs a 15 mile drive..
Sorry to say, but personally I don't really care much about the "saving the planet" feelgood aspect. If I don't ruin the environment someone else will anyway. What I do in my life will have 0.00000001% impact on the inevitable destruction of the earth so why bother. Now I don't throw shit in nature, but I don't believe in driving less to save the world either, sorry.
edit: found another option for your list:
- eat 110 hardboiled eggs ($28).
And per my source you'd need to eat 1.5 cup of hummus. About $3-4 worth
110 hardboiled eggs?
That's like 7700 calories.
500 calories is only like 7 whole eggs.
Or 29 and change egg whites.
You're right. I didn't notice that the stupid site I used had egg WHITES as the first result. Who the hell only eat whites??
So 10 eggs then. $2.50
I'm an egg nazi/affecanado. I go through about a dozen every day - or every 2 days. So It really jumped out at me LOL.
I eat usually 3 whole eggs to 6 egg whites in my cutting season for my dinner. So- I go through quite a bit of egg whites- but never plain- that's just gross.
Bulking season it's fucking game on.
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You're right. I didn't notice that the stupid site I used had egg WHITES as the first result. Who the hell only eats whites??
Rich people, it would seem.
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You're right. I didn't notice that the stupid site I used had egg WHITES as the first result. Who the hell only eats whites??
Rich people, it would seem.
I'd argue and say uneducated people with poor taste buds given that the bulk of the good stuff is in the yolk- and it makes it taste better LOL
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I regularly rode 50-60 kms in sneakers and studded flats last year. No problems climbing hills, no problems with efficiency. With clipless shoes I go faster sprinting away from a light, and seem to be able to put out more power going up a hill.
I would not recommend them to someone who is new to cycling . . . there is a learning curve. You will probably fall off your bike at some point because of the pedals, and you really don't want this to be in traffic. You do have to spend extra money on shoes and pedals. You have to position the cleat on the bottom of your shoes properly, or it can cause all sorts of strange problems/injuries.
I rode SS for years road and MTB, went back and forth between flats and clipless. I currently have two SS with flats (MTB and a beach cruiser) and two other bikes with clipless (MTB and my commuter). Definitely there with you on the pros and cons of both. I was just saying not to discount clipless as never needed by a bike commuter, but to figure out how they might or might not benefit you and make a good choice.
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Robartsd is on the right track, about financial value for biking.
I have found, that there is a minimal return, if you will own and insure a vehicle anyway. e.g., not get rid of a car that you own...
The benefit of cycling to work, financially, comes after a bit of time, and you go down to one car due to scrapping, repairs, move to a new situation, and then don't rent a replacement and you extend the time until you get another car, sometimes for a year or more....
OR, if you sell a money hog of a car to get rid of HAIR ON FIRE....
OR, when your kids start to drive, if you are a cycling family, then you don't feel the need to go and acquire a second or third car.
The financial benefits are real, but sometimes are not immediate.
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Driving is a pretty damn nice way to get around if you value time with your family. There is zero plausible financial case for biking instead of driving, unless you are able to own one less car as a result. The case for biking is that it's a way to get exercise while borrowing your commute time to do part of it. It's not even better for the environment unless maybe if you're vegan.
For a lot of people, they get a very good return on their time biking. My door to desk car commute is 15 minutes and biking is about 30 minutes, so if I choose to bike to work I basically am trading 30 minutes of actual time for an hour of exercise PLUS the benefits of not driving.
Some people can't get as good of a "return" on their time spent biking. For me though? Huge return on that time. I basically can exercise and get a "2x the benefits!" coupon every time I do so.
And regarding the financial benefits, I disagree. Because I can bike to work and often do, we are able to have older and less reliable (aka cheaper) cars. It is less important for our family to have multiple reliable vehicles because I don't need one in order to get to work. This will save us a lot of money both short and long term.
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Robartsd is on the right track, about financial value for biking.
I have found, that there is a minimal return, if you will own and insure a vehicle anyway. e.g., not get rid of a car that you own...
The benefit of cycling to work, financially, comes after a bit of time, and you go down to one car due to scrapping, repairs, move to a new situation, and then don't rent a replacement and you extend the time until you get another car, sometimes for a year or more....
We went from a 2-car to a 1-car household after biking.
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Even if the cost of the cars you choose only decreases by a few thousand dollars because you choose to bike, it can significantly tip the scale for cost savings, with a significant bend point when the value of the car is low enough that you drop full coverage and another significant bend point where you own fewer cars. Cost of parking at work also can have a significant impact on the available savings to a bike commuter. I'm with ender on the exercise gained negating any extra time taken making all cost savings a plus with no time downside.
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Robartsd is on the right track, about financial value for biking.
I have found, that there is a minimal return, if you will own and insure a vehicle anyway. e.g., not get rid of a car that you own...
The benefit of cycling to work, financially, comes after a bit of time, and you go down to one car due to scrapping, repairs, move to a new situation, and then don't rent a replacement and you extend the time until you get another car, sometimes for a year or more....
We went from a 2-car to a 1-car household after biking.
The only way that our family has managed to stay 1 car is due to my cycling.
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Even if the cost of the cars you choose only decreases by a few thousand dollars because you choose to bike, it can significantly tip the scale for cost savings, with a significant bend point when the value of the car is low enough that you drop full coverage and another significant bend point where you own fewer cars. Cost of parking at work also can have a significant impact on the available savings to a bike commuter. I'm with ender on the exercise gained negating any extra time taken making all cost savings a plus with no time downside.
Yes if that's the case it's certainly possible to save money. But this area is insanely car-dependent. Going 1 car with a kid is pretty much out of the question. Although maybe it would allow is to keep a crappier car at some point.
I likewise don't see much value in the exercise. I'm in "good enough" shape, additional biking isn't likely to get me much. And as discussed would involve eating at least $2/day more in food so not a total savings anyway. Bike vs driving could lead to couple bucks per day saved, maybe. But a very low hourly rate.
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Yes if that's the case it's certainly possible to save money. But this area is insanely car-dependent. Going 1 car with a kid is pretty much out of the question. Although maybe it would allow is to keep a crappier car at some point.
I likewise don't see much value in the exercise. I'm in "good enough" shape, additional biking isn't likely to get me much. And as discussed would involve eating at least $2/day more in food so not a total savings anyway. Bike vs driving could lead to couple bucks per day saved, maybe. But a very low hourly rate.
As was discussed, the food costs are entirely up to you. You could grab a couple sugar packets from the coffee station at work and not spend anything. You could buy a 50lb bag of discount oats, and spend only a few cents to replace your calories.
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Even if the cost of the cars you choose only decreases by a few thousand dollars because you choose to bike, it can significantly tip the scale for cost savings, with a significant bend point when the value of the car is low enough that you drop full coverage and another significant bend point where you own fewer cars. Cost of parking at work also can have a significant impact on the available savings to a bike commuter. I'm with ender on the exercise gained negating any extra time taken making all cost savings a plus with no time downside.
And that's all fine and true, but for someone who doesn't bike commute, telling them bike commuting a few days is a huge financial benefit because maybe they can go down a car is a stretch. You're assuming a huge level of commitment from someone currently not biking at all in order to really see a return. I could bike commute a few days a week a few months a year. But all that really does is save me a couple bucks a day in gas and pushing out oil changes and tires a few weeks. I cannot give up a car, because my spouse and I work in opposite directions and we share responsibility for collecting our daughter from school, which can't realistically be done via bike given the hours the school is open (I work 8:30-5:15-530 most days, and school opens at 8:10 and closes promptly at 6, it's just not reasonable to build in additional time for biking and maintain my work hours and school hours).
Basically not bike commuting is a commitment of 0/10, commuting a few days a week in nice weather is a 2/10, and giving up one of 2 cars is an 8 or 9/10. Most people are not going to get from 0 to 8-9, and that's where you actually get material savings.
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Lifestyle choices I suppose. My motto has always been if I can't bike to work it's too far away. So it's always guided my job choice. Why would I want to spend a chunk of time in a vehicle going back and forth in a line every day?
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And that's all fine and true, but for someone who doesn't bike commute, telling them bike commuting a few days is a huge financial benefit because maybe they can go down a car is a stretch. You're assuming a huge level of commitment from someone currently not biking at all in order to really see a return. I could bike commute a few days a week a few months a year. But all that really does is save me a couple bucks a day in gas and pushing out oil changes and tires a few weeks. I cannot give up a car, because my spouse and I work in opposite directions and we share responsibility for collecting our daughter from school, which can't realistically be done via bike given the hours the school is open (I work 8:30-5:15-530 most days, and school opens at 8:10 and closes promptly at 6, it's just not reasonable to build in additional time for biking and maintain my work hours and school hours).
Basically not bike commuting is a commitment of 0/10, commuting a few days a week in nice weather is a 2/10, and giving up one of 2 cars is an 8 or 9/10. Most people are not going to get from 0 to 8-9, and that's where you actually get material savings.
Telling someone to stop buying useless shit and invest the money is a big commitment. The usual response is that they couldn't possibly improve their life . . . it's far too much hard work. Spending that money is essential due to inflexibility that they have created in their life. The cool thing is, it's your life. That inflexibility is your choice though.
If you want to hang on to your choices that create a situation where biking to work is impossible, that's cool. If you want to keep living at the edge of financial catastrophe, that's also cool. But on this forum people are going to try to prod you in a better direction.
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Lifestyle choices I suppose. My motto has always been if I can't bike to work it's too far away. So it's always guided my job choice. Why would I want to spend a chunk of time in a vehicle going back and forth in a line every day?
That's your priority, and that's fine. I place upward career mobility and home ownership in a desirable area higher on my priority list than pure proximity to work. Add in a child and a working spouse and it gets even more complicated, and then maybe you need to switch jobs for whatever reason and how does that affect you? I've lived as close as 2 miles and as far as 35 miles from my office, and occasionally those were not my choices to make, like when I was laid off and my best opportunity was pretty far from my house.
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If you want to hang on to your choices that create a situation where biking to work is impossible, that's cool. If you want to keep living at the edge of financial catastrophe, that's also cool.
Yes, because those two are highly correlated all the time. Thanks for your concern.
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If you want to hang on to your choices that create a situation where biking to work is impossible, that's cool. If you want to keep living at the edge of financial catastrophe, that's also cool.
Yes, because those two are highly correlated all the time. Thanks for your concern.
No, they're not highly correlated all the time. But it's the same set of excuses in both cases.
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Lifestyle choices I suppose. My motto has always been if I can't bike to work it's too far away. So it's always guided my job choice. Why would I want to spend a chunk of time in a vehicle going back and forth in a line every day?
That's your priority, and that's fine. I place upward career mobility and home ownership in a desirable area higher on my priority list than pure proximity to work. Add in a child and a working spouse and it gets even more complicated, and then maybe you need to switch jobs for whatever reason and how does that affect you? I've lived as close as 2 miles and as far as 35 miles from my office, and occasionally those were not my choices to make, like when I was laid off and my best opportunity was pretty far from my house.
When you are single, your choices are vast. Depending upon our status, kids and their ages, spouse, it's easy to forget
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If you want to hang on to your choices that create a situation where biking to work is impossible, that's cool. If you want to keep living at the edge of financial catastrophe, that's also cool.
Yes, because those two are highly correlated all the time. Thanks for your concern.
LOL!!
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I cannot give up a car, because my spouse and I work in opposite directions and we share responsibility for collecting our daughter from school, which can't realistically be done via bike given the hours the school is open (I work 8:30-5:15-530 most days, and school opens at 8:10 and closes promptly at 6, it's just not reasonable to build in additional time for biking and maintain my work hours and school hours).
Some people have flexible enough work schedules to work an eariler shift if responsible for kid pick up or a later shift if responsible for kid drop off. Many people bike with kids (this does require a significantly greater equipment expense). I don't think people here are judging you for your choice not to bike, just providing nudges that say you can probably make it possible and you might find that it is an exploding volcano of awesomeness: "You do not like [it], so you say. Try [it], try [it], and you may. Try [it] and you may I say!" Of course, it is easier to decide if you like Green Eggs and Ham in one bite than it is to decide if you like cycle commuting in one day (or even one week).
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I don't commute from work anymore, but I do still bike for transport. What I found is that it takes more time to get where I'm going, but I save time later that I'd normally use going to the gym or doing other exercise specific activities. So for me it's not so much a cost savings as it a time savings.
Most people look at time biking vs time driving (40 minutes vs 20 minutes for example). But biking can also save time because you don't have to drive to a gym (10 minutes to and from), or do "aerobic" exercise at the gym (another 30 minutes at least). You might still go to the gym for the resistance exercise. I started doing bodyweight exercises at home and biking everywhere, which let me drop my gym membership and still keep in shape, but it less time. Also saved the $35 per month gym fee.
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Lifestyle choices I suppose. My motto has always been if I can't bike to work it's too far away. So it's always guided my job choice. Why would I want to spend a chunk of time in a vehicle going back and forth in a line every day?
That's your priority, and that's fine. I place upward career mobility and home ownership in a desirable area higher on my priority list than pure proximity to work. Add in a child and a working spouse and it gets even more complicated, and then maybe you need to switch jobs for whatever reason and how does that affect you? I've lived as close as 2 miles and as far as 35 miles from my office, and occasionally those were not my choices to make, like when I was laid off and my best opportunity was pretty far from my house.
I haven't found these items incompatible. My career is at an apex, I get paid very well, the house is paid off, $1.5M in retirement savings, raised the kid, live in great neighborhood, kept the marriage strong, blah, blah.
And I have a 30 minute bike ride to work. And I made that a conscious choice.
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Lifestyle choices I suppose. My motto has always been if I can't bike to work it's too far away. So it's always guided my job choice. Why would I want to spend a chunk of time in a vehicle going back and forth in a line every day?
That's your priority, and that's fine. I place upward career mobility and home ownership in a desirable area higher on my priority list than pure proximity to work. Add in a child and a working spouse and it gets even more complicated, and then maybe you need to switch jobs for whatever reason and how does that affect you? I've lived as close as 2 miles and as far as 35 miles from my office, and occasionally those were not my choices to make, like when I was laid off and my best opportunity was pretty far from my house.
I haven't found these items incompatible. My career is at an apex, I get paid very well, the house is paid off, $1.5M in retirement savings, raised the kid, live in great neighborhood, kept the marriage strong, blah, blah.
And I have a 30 minute bike ride to work. And I made that a conscious choice.
They aren't inherently incompatible or compatible. I just find it simplistic to say "well, if I can't bike to work it just means I live or work in the wrong place." Well, changing either of those can have an extremely high switching cost. And then you add in a working spouse, and now you have to triangulate three locations, and if one or more can be dynamic (lose your close to home job, are you going to turn down a further away job? Or move and all the costs that entails?) it can really throw a wrench into things.
I've basically optimized our location as far as CURRENT jobs and school systems go. My office is 17 miles from my wife's. Her office is 15 miles from our house. My office is 7 miles from our house (offices are basically due N/S from one another, House is a few miles west of the midpoint due to schools and $$$ of real estate). And all that could get thrown in the air tomorrow if one of us needs to change jobs, for reasons either good or bad (better opportunity or job loss).
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Chriss22, don't you ever get tired of continually posting about how you can't bike commute? Because you sure do have a bunch of them. It's pretty funny. Any thread that even mentions riding a bike must require you to pop in and post about how you don't. Do you have a google alert set up or something? For someone who continually claims to be happy with his choices, you sure seem to feel the need to continually justify them.
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Chriss22, don't you ever get tired of continually posting about how you can't bike commute? Because you sure do have a bunch of them. It's pretty funny. Any thread that even mentions riding a bike must require you to pop in and post about how you don't. Do you have a google alert set up or something? For someone who continually claims to be happy with his choices, you sure seem to feel the need to continually justify them.
Nope. I work in O&G, business is slow. Gotta entertain myself somehow. #TeamAntiBike
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Lifestyle choices I suppose. My motto has always been if I can't bike to work it's too far away. So it's always guided my job choice. Why would I want to spend a chunk of time in a vehicle going back and forth in a line every day?
That's your priority, and that's fine. I place upward career mobility and home ownership in a desirable area higher on my priority list than pure proximity to work. Add in a child and a working spouse and it gets even more complicated, and then maybe you need to switch jobs for whatever reason and how does that affect you? I've lived as close as 2 miles and as far as 35 miles from my office, and occasionally those were not my choices to make, like when I was laid off and my best opportunity was pretty far from my house.
I haven't found these items incompatible. My career is at an apex, I get paid very well, the house is paid off, $1.5M in retirement savings, raised the kid, live in great neighborhood, kept the marriage strong, blah, blah.
And I have a 30 minute bike ride to work. And I made that a conscious choice.
They aren't inherently incompatible or compatible. I just find it simplistic to say "well, if I can't bike to work it just means I live or work in the wrong place." Well, changing either of those can have an extremely high switching cost. And then you add in a working spouse, and now you have to triangulate three locations, and if one or more can be dynamic (lose your close to home job, are you going to turn down a further away job? Or move and all the costs that entails?) it can really throw a wrench into things.
I've basically optimized our location as far as CURRENT jobs and school systems go. My office is 17 miles from my wife's. Her office is 15 miles from our house. My office is 7 miles from our house (offices are basically due N/S from one another, House is a few miles west of the midpoint due to schools and $$$ of real estate). And all that could get thrown in the air tomorrow if one of us needs to change jobs, for reasons either good or bad (better opportunity or job loss).
Everyone makes choices in their life. And yea, working where I live was on top of the list. It's worked out great. If you have other priorities have at it. I just wanted to keep my stress down and maintain a healthy lifestyle - and keep the frugal thing going.
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Robartsd is on the right track, about financial value for biking.
I have found, that there is a minimal return, if you will own and insure a vehicle anyway. e.g., not get rid of a car that you own...
The benefit of cycling to work, financially, comes after a bit of time, and you go down to one car due to scrapping, repairs, move to a new situation, and then don't rent a replacement and you extend the time until you get another car, sometimes for a year or more....
We went from a 2-car to a 1-car household after biking.
The only way that our family has managed to stay 1 car is due to my cycling.
It gets easier the longer you do it, too. 10 miles is no longer "far." It's also much faster by bike now a few years after riding every where.
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I don't commute from work anymore, but I do still bike for transport. What I found is that it takes more time to get where I'm going, but I save time later that I'd normally use going to the gym or doing other exercise specific activities. So for me it's not so much a cost savings as it a time savings.
Most people look at time biking vs time driving (40 minutes vs 20 minutes for example). But biking can also save time because you don't have to drive to a gym (10 minutes to and from), or do "aerobic" exercise at the gym (another 30 minutes at least). You might still go to the gym for the resistance exercise. I started doing bodyweight exercises at home and biking everywhere, which let me drop my gym membership and still keep in shape, but it less time. Also saved the $35 per month gym fee.
Do people think you're crazy if you take the bike to the gym? I go to essentially a powerlifting gym. They lost their damn minds when I ran home one day. It's only 3.5 miles LOL. like- guys. I'm at the gym. working out.sweating.
gotta get some fucking cardio in some how!
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Even if the cost of the cars you choose only decreases by a few thousand dollars because you choose to bike, it can significantly tip the scale for cost savings, with a significant bend point when the value of the car is low enough that you drop full coverage and another significant bend point where you own fewer cars. Cost of parking at work also can have a significant impact on the available savings to a bike commuter. I'm with ender on the exercise gained negating any extra time taken making all cost savings a plus with no time downside.
And that's all fine and true, but for someone who doesn't bike commute, telling them bike commuting a few days is a huge financial benefit because maybe they can go down a car is a stretch. You're assuming a huge level of commitment from someone currently not biking at all in order to really see a return. I could bike commute a few days a week a few months a year. But all that really does is save me a couple bucks a day in gas and pushing out oil changes and tires a few weeks. I cannot give up a car, because my spouse and I work in opposite directions and we share responsibility for collecting our daughter from school, which can't realistically be done via bike given the hours the school is open (I work 8:30-5:15-530 most days, and school opens at 8:10 and closes promptly at 6, it's just not reasonable to build in additional time for biking and maintain my work hours and school hours).
Basically not bike commuting is a commitment of 0/10, commuting a few days a week in nice weather is a 2/10, and giving up one of 2 cars is an 8 or 9/10. Most people are not going to get from 0 to 8-9, and that's where you actually get material savings.
I don't really see how you only get material savings at an 8 or 9 out of 10? I have a pretty small car with good gas mileage. If you estimate $0.50 per mile, the round trip 20 miles is $10 a day. That's not nothing.
It comes out to maybe $8 a day. I figure gas is part of it, and wear and tear. I don't factor in insurance because I'm paying for it anyway. Then, if you have a car that you paid $20k for, and you keep it for 200,000 miles, that's 0.10 a mile. The less you drive it, the longer it lasts and the longer you can go before replacing it.
Now husband and I work near each other, so we used to each bike one way. We biked a little bit after kid #2 was born. But then it got to be logistically difficult. Even though we have flexible enough schedules -
-Kid #1 drop-off is at 8:20, pick up is before 5:30
-Kid #2 drop-off is at 8:30 approx, pick up is before 5:30
-Kid #2 daycare is 5 miles in the opposite direction from work.
We could do it, but it lengthens the day (basically, whichever person goes in "early" bikes in and the other does dropoff. The one that went in early does pickup and the other could bike home).
However, to work a full day, that means the person biking home would have to work until at least 6 pm, and wouldn't get home until 7 pm. That's sort of late for dinner, and add in baseball practice and music practice to the mix...It was much easier for us to manage it when I was working part time. It's kind of like playing calendar tetris. And I just don't have the energy for it right now.
This fall kid #2 is moving to a preschool that is between home and work. The following year, we will have one GLORIOUS year of both kids in the same school.
I imagine that we'll revisit biking at that point.
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Even if the cost of the cars you choose only decreases by a few thousand dollars because you choose to bike, it can significantly tip the scale for cost savings, with a significant bend point when the value of the car is low enough that you drop full coverage and another significant bend point where you own fewer cars. Cost of parking at work also can have a significant impact on the available savings to a bike commuter. I'm with ender on the exercise gained negating any extra time taken making all cost savings a plus with no time downside.
And that's all fine and true, but for someone who doesn't bike commute, telling them bike commuting a few days is a huge financial benefit because maybe they can go down a car is a stretch. You're assuming a huge level of commitment from someone currently not biking at all in order to really see a return. I could bike commute a few days a week a few months a year. But all that really does is save me a couple bucks a day in gas and pushing out oil changes and tires a few weeks. I cannot give up a car, because my spouse and I work in opposite directions and we share responsibility for collecting our daughter from school, which can't realistically be done via bike given the hours the school is open (I work 8:30-5:15-530 most days, and school opens at 8:10 and closes promptly at 6, it's just not reasonable to build in additional time for biking and maintain my work hours and school hours).
Basically not bike commuting is a commitment of 0/10, commuting a few days a week in nice weather is a 2/10, and giving up one of 2 cars is an 8 or 9/10. Most people are not going to get from 0 to 8-9, and that's where you actually get material savings.
I don't really see how you only get material savings at an 8 or 9 out of 10? I have a pretty small car with good gas mileage. If you estimate $0.50 per mile, the round trip 20 miles is $10 a day. That's not nothing.
I was talking about a scale of "commitment" where you've making a commitment of 2 versus a commitment of 8-9. It was arbitrary, just trying to make a point.
I did have a thread (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/challenging-assumptions-cost-per-mile-of-driving-a-car/) though where I calculated the incremental cost of driving to be about $.18-.25 depending on how you factored depreciation. That tells me that assuming I still own the car and just chose not to drive it it costs me about $2.50-$3.50 per day to drive versus riding. It's mostly gas, plus a small amount of maintenance. Insurance, registration, etc, are all a wash.
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Parking can be a big cost in cities. Then there are more intangibles - adding to traffic, larger carbon output, and (for me) the pain in the butt of traffic and sitting on my butt when I could be getting fresh air and exercise, which also affects (my) stress level.
I get it - some folks 1) don't like biking, 2) hate exercise, 3) have chosen a lifestyle that directs them to drive, or whatever.
But for me not having the convenience of a bike commute just would not work.
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I only started bike commuting when there was a change in transit routes, such that biking would actually be faster than taking the bus (parking at work is cost-prohibitive so it's not even in the picture, and I think biking would still be faster than driving). It does not save me any money, though it might if I decided to drop my work-subsidized transit pass. For me, the point is 30 minutes of biking (even in the pouring rain) beats the hell out of 45 minutes on the bus.
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I used to take the bus once in a while. Now never. In the winter the heat is cranked up like a sauna and there is always someone hacking away with a cold. Akkkkk!
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My sedan is a ULEV (ultra low emissions vehicle) and I drive it about 15 miles a day, using about 2/3rds gallons of gas. I'm not losing any sleep over the environmental impact of doing so.
Yeah, not much impact producing that car from limited resources. Although I did hear that there is significant resources consumed just getting that car built and to the car dealer so you could buy it and only use so little fuel. Not to mention the billions of dollars spent on roadways, crashes, death and destruction (crush bodies, etc.), etc. Good on you, you must feel great.
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I do, thanks. Dramatic much?
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I do, thanks. Dramatic much?
:D Well said Chris22. Maybe if you change the name of the team to "Biking Agnostic", I might sign up!
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I do, thanks. Dramatic much?
:D Well said Chris22. Maybe if you change the name of the team to "Biking Agnostic", I might sign up!
In reality, I'm actually pro-bike. I ride all around my neighborhood with my daughter in the trailer, we ride to our little downtown area tons of summer nights to go to the park, etc. It's just in comparison to the "OMG if you aren't moving to a place and taking a job specifically so you can ride to work no matter the weather and the time schedule and sell all your cars" crowd, I'm anti bike.
My normal evening's entertainment:
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l72/ChrisStack22/d920212da765629b7f462dc456170d4c_zpsnmzplca8.jpg)
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So does bike commuting only make sense if I want to save 3 bucks, and want to see my family slightly less? I see little downside and pretty good upside to driving.
I've had long stretches of solid bike commutes and long stretches of driving to work. When I look back at both it's not the money I saved biking that I care about [not sure I even saved any money given the extra food needed] it was the sense of well being and lower stress levels that all that extra exercise gave me that sticks out as positive.
I'm pretty sure if you asked my GF what she would rather have 1) me at home longer in the evening after driving or 2) me home less, but in better health/mood after biking...she'd pick #2.
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I don't commute any more, but when I did I never realized how toxic being in traffic is to the soul. Nowadays I'll find myself in traffic every once in a while and I can feel my stress level go up. Makes me glad I'm done with commuting.
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So does bike commuting only make sense if I want to save 3 bucks, and want to see my family slightly less? I see little downside and pretty good upside to driving.
I've had long stretches of solid bike commutes and long stretches of driving to work. When I look back at both it's not the money I saved biking that I care about [not sure I even saved any money given the extra food needed] it was the sense of well being and lower stress levels that all that extra exercise gave me that sticks out as positive.
I'm pretty sure if you asked my GF what she would rather have 1) me at home longer in the evening after driving or 2) me home less, but in better health/mood after biking...she'd pick #2.
A lot of people talk about biking improving their mood. My wife has been trying to push me to run or go to the gym so I'll feel better. But it doesn't really have that effect on me, and when I feel crappy I don't want to work out.. And I don't think I sweaty bikeride in 90 degree weather dodging idiots walking on the phone will do much better. Probably no worse than driving, but I don't believe I will improve my mood either.
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If exercise doesn't lift your mood, try working out harder. I personally have to be totally drenched in sweat to get a noticeable runner's high - and it doesn't hit until 15 to 30 minutes after the run.
Less temporary mood improvement takes time to build up. Working out just today isn't likely to help very noticeably, but 3X+ per week for 6 months, and now you're talking.
Nobody wants to work out when they feel crappy - do something anyway. Cut back if you have to or adjust your schedule.
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I used to take the bus once in a while. Now never. In the winter the heat is cranked up like a sauna and there is always someone hacking away with a cold. Akkkkk!
I used to get bad colds every winter at least once, but usually 2-3 times a season. This past winter - nothing, not even sniffles. I have no evidence, but I totally attribute it to biking instead of being on the bus every day.
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If exercise doesn't lift your mood, try working out harder. I personally have to be totally drenched in sweat to get a noticeable runner's high
Sounds like exactly what I want on my way to work.
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If exercise doesn't lift your mood, try working out harder. I personally have to be totally drenched in sweat to get a noticeable runner's high
Sounds like exactly what I want on my way to work.
This one reason I don't bike to work - it is 90+ here a lot of the year. But the OP had mentioned in the immediately prior post running and "going to the gym" not lifting his mood either.
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If exercise doesn't lift your mood, try working out harder. I personally have to be totally drenched in sweat to get a noticeable runner's high
Sounds like exactly what I want on my way to work.
One reason that eBikes are very useful - if you need to show up non-sweaty to work they can get you there with a minimum of sweat. They can also get you there FAST if you need to get there quick. On the other hand, if you are coming home and are OK with going a bit slower and getting more exercise, you can disengage the motor and just pedal it like a normal bike.
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A lot of people talk about biking improving their mood. My wife has been trying to push me to run or go to the gym so I'll feel better. But it doesn't really have that effect on me, and when I feel crappy I don't want to work out.. And I don't think I sweaty bikeride in 90 degree weather dodging idiots walking on the phone will do much better. Probably no worse than driving, but I don't believe I will improve my mood either.
Regular exercise should improve your mental and physical well being enough to where your wife shouldn't have to encourage you to get out of the house because you're moody.
If you don't exercise regularly and are already writing off the health benefits that regular biking can provide, that's almost like saying "I'm on a diet, but it's not helping me lose weight [because I only follow it once a week]."
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Chris22 mentioned that he doesn't need to bike to stay in shape. I am wondering what he does to stay fit, and when he does it. If family time is important enough to make you not want to bike to and from work, then it should also be important enough that he should not waste time doing any other exercise during family time, either.
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If exercise doesn't lift your mood, try working out harder. I personally have to be totally drenched in sweat to get a noticeable runner's high
Sounds like exactly what I want on my way to work.
This is why I like to gently cruise to work in the morning and haul ass on my way home in the evening. The ride in is a pleasant bit of fresh air and a way to get my blood flowing a little. The ride home is the workout. I'm fortunate to live at a higher elevation than I work which lends itself nicely to this arrangement.
I used to work at an office that had a shower, back then I could haul ass both directions.
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Chris22 mentioned that he doesn't need to bike to stay in shape. I am wondering what he does to stay fit, and when he does it. If family time is important enough to make you not want to bike to and from work, then it should also be important enough that he should not waste time doing any other exercise during family time, either.
I lift weights and walk or run late in the evenings, usually from about 830-930pm. My daughter goes to bed at 830. That's one things some of you guys don't get, time is not fungible. An extra hour during the day, when I'm already trying to squeeze dropoff/pickup of daycare onto both ends of an 8-9 HR work day is not the same as an hour late at night or early in the morning. "Spend extra time here so you don't have to spend it there" doesn't always work.
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If exercise doesn't lift your mood, try working out harder. I personally have to be totally drenched in sweat to get a noticeable runner's high
Sounds like exactly what I want on my way to work.
I used to work at an office that had a shower, back then I could haul ass both directions.
This for me. I put in some effort, work a little to wake me up and take a shower at work. 800 calories=4 beers. And that's why I'm not fat. :D
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Chris22 mentioned that he doesn't need to bike to stay in shape. I am wondering what he does to stay fit, and when he does it. If family time is important enough to make you not want to bike to and from work, then it should also be important enough that he should not waste time doing any other exercise during family time, either.
I lift weights and walk or run late in the evenings, usually from about 830-930pm. My daughter goes to bed at 830. That's one things some of you guys don't get, time is not fungible. An extra hour during the day, when I'm already trying to squeeze dropoff/pickup of daycare onto both ends of an 8-9 HR work day is not the same as an hour late at night or early in the morning. "Spend extra time here so you don't have to spend it there" doesn't always work.
Same for me. My son goes to bed at 7 pm, so the faster I get home the more time I get. Any time after 7 I could work out as much as I wanted, and I do. That time is much less valuable.
I also mainly do strength exercise, and naturally have ok cardio capability, so see little value in biking for the health effects.
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If exercise doesn't lift your mood, try working out harder. I personally have to be totally drenched in sweat to get a noticeable runner's high
Sounds like exactly what I want on my way to work.
This is why I like to gently cruise to work in the morning and haul ass on my way home in the evening. The ride in is a pleasant bit of fresh air and a way to get my blood flowing a little. The ride home is the workout. I'm fortunate to live at a higher elevation than I work which lends itself nicely to this arrangement.
I used to work at an office that had a shower, back then I could haul ass both directions.
I'm barely 160 lb so don't understand why, but I sweat like a fat kid chasing the ice cream truck. So any small amount of physical work will make me too disgusting to go to an office job. Especially when it's 85, both degrees and % humidity.. A shower would be required.
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I also mainly do strength exercise, and naturally have ok cardio capability, so see little value in biking for the health effects.
I'm barely 160 lb so don't understand why, but I sweat like a fat kid chasing the ice cream truck. So any small amount of physical work will make me too disgusting to go to an office job. Especially when it's 85, both degrees and % humidity.. A shower would be required.
Did you know that increasing your cardio capability helps to keep you from sweating like a fat kid when chasing the ice cream truck?
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Chris22 mentioned that he doesn't need to bike to stay in shape. I am wondering what he does to stay fit, and when he does it. If family time is important enough to make you not want to bike to and from work, then it should also be important enough that he should not waste time doing any other exercise during family time, either.
I'm not Chris22, but...
When I biked to work, I would leave at 6:45 am to get to work at 7:30 am. So, let's say I did it 2x a week, so that's 1.5 hours less time with my family, when they were awake. Whomever biked home would bike home from work, and would get home at 6:45 pm instead of 6. So it's 3 hours less time with the kids, for 2x a week of biking. (total since we each only biked one way, so 1.5 hrs per parent)
Now, instead, I swim 2x a week (at 5:30 am), so when I get home (at 6:30 am), the kids are either not awake, or barely awake.
On the other days, I work out at home at 5:45 or 6 am in the living room, so the kids are there (but again, usually asleep).
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I also mainly do strength exercise, and naturally have ok cardio capability, so see little value in biking for the health effects.
I'm barely 160 lb so don't understand why, but I sweat like a fat kid chasing the ice cream truck. So any small amount of physical work will make me too disgusting to go to an office job. Especially when it's 85, both degrees and % humidity.. A shower would be required.
Did you know that increasing your cardio capability helps to keep you from sweating like a fat kid when chasing the ice cream truck?
Does it? Citation please.
In the military I ran the 3k in 12 min, but still sweated more than much slower people. I outrun, and outsweat many people at crossfit..
I like to think I just have high metabolism and good heat regulation.
More muscle mass will produce more heat, not less
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I also mainly do strength exercise, and naturally have ok cardio capability, so see little value in biking for the health effects.
I'm barely 160 lb so don't understand why, but I sweat like a fat kid chasing the ice cream truck. So any small amount of physical work will make me too disgusting to go to an office job. Especially when it's 85, both degrees and % humidity.. A shower would be required.
Did you know that increasing your cardio capability helps to keep you from sweating like a fat kid when chasing the ice cream truck?
Does it? Citation please.
In the military I ran the 3k in 12 min
I'm not going to say that being in good cadiovascular shape will reduce your sweating (I sweat like a motherfucker and did a 120 km bike ride in 3.5 hrs last weekend), but running 3k in 12 minutes is really just a display of power rather than cardiovascular endurance.
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I have no citation to provide you. My opinion: if you break out in sweat (the body's response to cool yourself) after a short jog to catch up with the ice cream truck, you should reconsider claims that your cardio health is ok. I'm not saying you're not a pro power lifter or something like that, or that people in good cardiovascular health don't sweat, but if your body triggers cooling mechanisms after two blocks, I'm questioning your claim that you're in OK cardiovascular health.
Another scenario, on the opposite side. You may have no problem lifting boxes at work, but your coworker breaks out into sweat after lifting a few 20 lb boxes after claiming they lift weights regularly. Does this set off alarm bells in your head?
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I have no citation to provide you. My opinion: if you break out in sweat (the body's response to cool yourself) after a short jog to catch up with the ice cream truck, you should reconsider claims that your cardio health is ok. I'm not saying you're not a pro power lifter or something like that, or that people in good cardiovascular health don't sweat, but if your body triggers cooling mechanisms after two blocks, I'm questioning your claim that you're in OK cardiovascular health.
Another scenario, on the opposite side. You may have no problem lifting boxes at work, but your coworker breaks out into sweat after lifting a few 20 lb boxes after claiming they lift weights regularly. Does this set off alarm bells in your head?
I'm just questioning the claim that there is a link between sweating and cardio health. Moving the same mass the same distance will require the same energy, thus produce an equal amount of heat. Being in better shape wouldn't (at least not to my limited understanding) change the amount of heat produced. If anything more muscle/less fat will produce more heat. Though fat insulate so require more sweating..? Hm..
Not being able to run, or lift boxes, I agree. Then you're clearly not in shape. Getting winded also seems to be a reliable sign. But I've seen crazy fit spinning dudes sweat in puddles. I think some people just sweat more.
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I also mainly do strength exercise, and naturally have ok cardio capability, so see little value in biking for the health effects.
I'm barely 160 lb so don't understand why, but I sweat like a fat kid chasing the ice cream truck. So any small amount of physical work will make me too disgusting to go to an office job. Especially when it's 85, both degrees and % humidity.. A shower would be required.
Did you know that increasing your cardio capability helps to keep you from sweating like a fat kid when chasing the ice cream truck?
Does it? Citation please.
In the military I ran the 3k in 12 min
I'm not going to say that being in good cadiovascular shape will reduce your sweating (I sweat like a motherfucker and did a 120 km bike ride in 3.5 hrs last weekend), but running 3k in 12 minutes is really just a display of power rather than cardiovascular endurance.
That was just the only number I could think of to put to my "fitness". Like I said I don't compete, so don't care much. Oh, did a 5k two years ago. Think I was 22 min or so. dunno if that's good or bad though..
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Oh, did a 5k two years ago. Think I was 22 min or so. dunno if that's good or bad though..
Generally speaking, anyone who can run a 22 minute 5k knows that it's a good time because nobody runs that fast without considerable training. That's not a "oh I'm not a runner but I think I'll just try this" kind of time. That pace would put you in the top 15% of 17-21 year old men (off the chart for women) on the army's qual test, for example, and that's only 2 miles instead of 3.1.
The median 5k time for men is almost 29 minutes.
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Oh, did a 5k two years ago. Think I was 22 min or so. dunno if that's good or bad though..
Generally speaking, anyone who can run a 22 minute 5k knows that it's a good time because nobody runs that fast without considerable training. That's not a "oh I'm not a runner but I think I'll just try this" kind of time. That pace would put you in the top 15% of 17-21 year old men (off the chart for women) on the army's qual test, for example, and that's only 2 miles instead of 3.1.
The median 5k time for men is almost 29 minutes.
Ok, see you got me (*Paul Ryan emoticon). I got curious now and checked the race website. I was 22:54. So not as good as you said. Lol, definitely no "considerable training". I was indeed a just try it thing, never raced before or after. I'll quit while on top.. Anywho; I guess we can conclude I sweat a lot. I may or may not be in ok cardiovascular shape. We don't know if these are related. Biking to work in hot, humid Maryland I would smell nasty..
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Oh, did a 5k two years ago. Think I was 22 min or so. dunno if that's good or bad though..
Generally speaking, anyone who can run a 22 minute 5k knows that it's a good time because nobody runs that fast without considerable training. That's not a "oh I'm not a runner but I think I'll just try this" kind of time. That pace would put you in the top 15% of 17-21 year old men (off the chart for women) on the army's qual test, for example, and that's only 2 miles instead of 3.1.
The median 5k time for men is almost 29 minutes.
Ok, see you got me (*Paul Ryan emoticon). I got curious now and checked the race website. I was 22:54. So not as good as you said. Lol, definitely no "considerable training". I was indeed a just try it thing, never raced before or after. I'll quit while on top.. Anywho; I guess we can conclude I sweat a lot. I may or may not be in ok cardiovascular shape. We don't know if these are related. Biking to work in hot, humid Maryland I would smell nasty..
Clearly not worth it for you, then... But at the pace, you could probably run to work as fast as many newbie bikers could pedal.
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Oh, did a 5k two years ago. Think I was 22 min or so. dunno if that's good or bad though..
Generally speaking, anyone who can run a 22 minute 5k knows that it's a good time because nobody runs that fast without considerable training. That's not a "oh I'm not a runner but I think I'll just try this" kind of time. That pace would put you in the top 15% of 17-21 year old men (off the chart for women) on the army's qual test, for example, and that's only 2 miles instead of 3.1.
The median 5k time for men is almost 29 minutes.
22 minutes isn't all that fast. That's over 7 min/mile which is horrible if running is a serious hobby. I ran a 5 K for fun and did a similar time as I was in very good general shape, but didn't know it was a "good time". A semi-serious runner isn't going to be happy with that time. Many people who are in good shape could hit this time without being serious runners. I believe it's in the top 20% for Americans, as most Americans are fat asses.
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I used to commute 7 miles too. Mine was all on road, in city traffic. For me, while it was fun bike commuting to work, it just didn't work. I'm in public service, so I'd have to leave my heavy gear at work, and haul a backpack with my uniform and some light gear. I'd arrive to work sweaty, and have to change into uniform and gear. I already work over 12 hrs a day, so the commute was in the dark half the time. It was a nice experiment, but in the end, it was too much to juggle for me personally.
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22 minutes isn't all that fast. That's over 7 min/mile which is horrible if running is a serious hobby. I ran a 5 K for fun and did a similar time as I was in very good general shape, but didn't know it was a "good time". A semi-serious runner isn't going to be happy with that time. Many people who are in good shape could hit this time without being serious runners. I believe it's in the top 20% for Americans, as most Americans are fat asses.
I have no hard numbers whatsoever, but over the entire population, I'd rather guess it's top 5 to 10% than top 20%.
Anyhow, Scandium is definitely fit enough to ride 7 miles to work twice a day without any problems.
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I'm a sweater too. I mentioned in another thread, I used to run cross country in high school. I sweat like a hog doing it. I was running 75+ miles a week and could run a 5k in about 18 min, 6 min mile pace. I was in fantastic shape, and sweat like a mule. I'm not in that shape any more, but still sweat like a mule. In my experience, my physical condition has zero bearing on amount of sweat produced.