Betty or Veronica... which are you now, how do you want to be remembered?

[Le Poisson]

Pondering this on a morning drive today...

(Also, what is the male version of Betty vs. Veronica?)

I think most mustachians see themselves more as "Bettys" - plain and simple people who aren't afraid to dig in and get our hands dirty. But I also think we have some aspiration to clean up nice, and have homes that may not be country-club level nice, but nice enough that we can have pride in them.

How do you see yourself, how do you think other folks see you at first sight, and how do you think people remember you when your name comes up in conversation?

[Zikoris]

DEFINITELY Betty. I would be absolutely shocked if anyone ever read Veronica from me. I feel like that would require so many things, like buying/using makeup, learning about fashion, paying someone to cut my hair instead of doing it in my kitchen, learning to drive and getting a nice car, and so so many other things.

I have no desire to "clean up", and if an angel came down and gifted me a free nice house like the one you describe, it would be on the market before the angel made it back up to cloud height.

As far as how other people remember me, I think the lunatic-level stuff I do would probably be the most common.

[Metalcat]

I don't think I really understand the two categories, but I am in no way shape or form "plain and simple" by anyone's definition.

[Le Poisson]

I don't think I really understand the two categories, but I am in no way shape or form "plain and simple" by anyone's definition.

Sorry Malcat I shouldn't have assumed people would know - Betty and Veronica are archetypes from the good 'ol Archie comics. Betty was is simple middle class girl who loves working with her hands. Veronica was a millionaire's daughter who was always part of country club life.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_and_Veronica

In the comic, the two girls are best friends, fighting for the affection of Archie. That has little to do with this conversation.

[Zikoris]

For the male equivalent - maybe Jughead versus Reggie? I feel like Archie himself is too close to the middle to be useful in that regard.

[Metalcat]

I don't think I really understand the two categories, but I am in no way shape or form "plain and simple" by anyone's definition.

Sorry Malcat I shouldn't have assumed people would know - Betty and Veronica are archetypes from the good 'ol Archie comics. Betty was is simple middle class girl who loves working with her hands. Veronica was a millionaire's daughter who was always part of country club life.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_and_Veronica

In the comic, the two girls are best friends, fighting for the affection of Archie. That has little to do with this conversation.

Yeah, I grew up reading Archie comics, and I'm familiar with the characters, but I don't see them as two groupings into which women can divide themselves.

From your description of the "Betty" type, I can categorically say that that's not me, but I certainly don't identify with being a rich country club type either.

From what I remember, Betty was a majorly insecure push over who let people, especially Archie, treat her like garbage a lot of the time and Veronica was quite a self absorbed narcissist. At least that's what I recall from the 80s.

[okits]

From what I remember, Betty was a majorly insecure push over who let people, especially Archie, treat her like garbage a lot of the time and Veronica was quite a self absorbed narcissist. At least that's what I recall from the 80s.

These are the descriptions that spring to mind for me, too.  Betty = nice/doormat, Veronica = not nice/assertive.

I think most mustachians see themselves more as "Bettys" - plain and simple people who aren't afraid to dig in and get our hands dirty. But I also think we have some aspiration to clean up nice, and have homes that may not be country-club level nice, but nice enough that we can have pride in them.

How do you see yourself, how do you think other folks see you at first sight, and how do you think people remember you when your name comes up in conversation?

Things are relative, aren't they?  I look like a pleb to richer, fancier people and I seem fortunate to people with less privilege than I have.

(I guess the other answer is: you're an external observer, how do people perceive me?)

[Bloop Bloop Reloaded]

I have always thought of trying hard to appear proper/posh to be a middle class thing. Actual rich people don't care about appearances nearly as much. Why should they? They're rich! In that sense the rich and poor are alike: secure in their own place.

[Metalcat]

I have always thought of trying hard to appear proper/posh to be a middle class thing. Actual rich people don't care about appearances nearly as much. Why should they? They're rich! In that sense the rich and poor are alike: secure in their own place.

You say this a lot, and every time I fervently disagree with you.

I spend a lot of time with very wealthy people, and I've even known billionaires who care deeply, DEEPLY about appearances.
In fact, among the rich, the insecurity about appearances can be far more profound.

[partgypsy]

I identified with Betty when reading the comics. I do agree she was a major push over in constantly chasing Archie, pretty much obsessed stalker level depending on the comics. But to defend her other than that she was a kind decent person who was friends with everyone, had tons of interests and capable of fixing a car to dressing up and hanging with rich folks. Because she is resourceful she could reach fire defintely. To defend veronica while she was vain, self absorbed and totally materialistic, her people skills would probably allow her to rise to ceo or start her own business (she seems more of a boglehead than mmm though).   

[Bloop Bloop Reloaded]

I have always thought of trying hard to appear proper/posh to be a middle class thing. Actual rich people don't care about appearances nearly as much. Why should they? They're rich! In that sense the rich and poor are alike: secure in their own place.

You say this a lot, and every time I fervently disagree with you.

I spend a lot of time with very wealthy people, and I've even known billionaires who care deeply, DEEPLY about appearances.
In fact, among the rich, the insecurity about appearances can be far more profound.

Maybe we hang out in different circles. The rich people I know (family net worth $5m-$10m) don't seem, to me, to care much. They might have a nice car or a nice house or one or the other but they are cool about it.

Perhaps once you get to the really rich (NW $20m+?) it flips? I could see that happening because, whilst prudent financial choices and sound investment plus a high salary can easily get your net worth into the 6 figures or even low 7 figures, to go beyond that you need to LOVE THE CHASE FOR MONEY.

[Metalcat]

I have always thought of trying hard to appear proper/posh to be a middle class thing. Actual rich people don't care about appearances nearly as much. Why should they? They're rich! In that sense the rich and poor are alike: secure in their own place.

You say this a lot, and every time I fervently disagree with you.

I spend a lot of time with very wealthy people, and I've even known billionaires who care deeply, DEEPLY about appearances.
In fact, among the rich, the insecurity about appearances can be far more profound.

Maybe we hang out in different circles. The rich people I know (family net worth $5m-$10m) don't seem, to me, to care much. They might have a nice car or a nice house or one or the other but they are cool about it.

Perhaps once you get to the really rich (NW $20m+?) it flips? I could see that happening because, whilst prudent financial choices and sound investment plus a high salary can easily get your net worth into the 6 figures or even low 7 figures, to go beyond that you need to LOVE THE CHASE FOR MONEY.

Well, we are living across the globe from one another, so I suppose it's possible our samples are different, lol.

Still, my point was that you can't generalize about how secure people feel based on their wealth. Feeling secure in your place in the world is a personal characteristic, not something conveyed by a NW amount.

What I take issue with is the generalization that being wealthy confers greater sense of self and confidence in people in general. It does not.

That's why I so dislike the Betty/Veronica dichotomy. The Betty type is down to earth, kind, and modest, but deeply insecure. The Veronica type is fiercely and unapologetically confident, but a terrible, terrible person a lot of the time.

I don't dislike the TV show version of Betty, that chick gets shit done, but she's borderline homicidally insane, so there's that issue.