Author Topic: Best States to Live in  (Read 9830 times)

eli44

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Best States to Live in
« on: December 03, 2018, 12:44:22 PM »
Can someone make a list of the best states to live in to achieve financial freedom?
I live in NJ here we have the highest taxes in the nation, medium house prices are 340k, rent is super high too. I looked into Colorado but its gotten bad according to what I read alot of homelesss, high housing prices and high rent and little jobs. My rent is like 50 percent of my salary. Any advice where to go? Id like mild winters.


newloginuser

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2018, 12:51:24 PM »
What is your professional job?

I'm also curious about this, I've heard places around North/South Carolina are relatively low cost (not all cities of course) and mild winters. You would avoid the extreme winters of the Northern part of the country, and the tornadoes in the middle part. It does seem like there has been an increase in hurricanes though, so take that for what it is.

I live in NH though, and I don't think that qualifies for where you want to go :)

big_slacker

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2018, 01:00:21 PM »
If financial freedom and low COL is the only go just take whatever money you've got saved now and move to a trailer park in a rural area. Mission accomplished! ;)

Jokes aside, not enough info. States are big chunks of land with massive variation in industry, jobs, cost of living, taxes, weather, amenities, people, etc. Manhattan is way different than Syracuse right?

HPstache

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2018, 01:02:59 PM »
I think Indiana & Michigan was well as most of the south east states usually rank pretty well for low COL.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 01:04:44 PM by v8rx7guy »

terran

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2018, 01:13:42 PM »
It's all about where you can find a job that creates the biggest difference between income.

If you're in tech there's a good chance that's San Francisco. If you're in Finance, NYC. A lawyer, maybe DC? All of this despite these despite being some of the highest cost of living you can find.

I've seen it said that doctors actually experience a reversal of this phenomenon: they find higher salaries in lower cost of living locations. My anecdotal observation has been that perhaps academia has a similar market, or at least salaries remain pretty flat regardless of cost of living. My theory of this is that you have people who went through a crap ton of schooling being told they could get a job anywhere, so they think they "deserve" to live in the places people think of as being the good places to live which creates more competition, so they can be paid less without taking higher cost of living into account. There could also be a concept of "enough" going on in that these professions are often considered a "calling" more so than a way to just make a bunch of money, so as long as you make enough to get by, maybe you become more concerned about where you live, so employers can pay you less in a more desired place and have to pay you more in a less desired place. If you happen to work in a profession that has this strange dichotomy going on and you're willing, or would even prefer, to live in a "less desirable" place it can really work out well though.

I will say this, if you can find a highish salary in the area, or remote work with a decent salary, then life is awful easy in the middle of the country.

So, with all that said, I think you're going to have to share more about what kinds of things you like to do, and what kind of job(s) you'd be qualified for if you want any more personalized suggestions.

FIRE@50

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Bucksandreds

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2018, 01:37:59 PM »
Doctors/dentists in Ohio make more working 1 hour or more outside of cities because being highly educated, they tend to want to live around other highly educated people. I cost myself $30-$50,000 per year living in Columbus but I don’t regret it.  9 years of college and I don’t get treated by high school graduates as peers. Many (not all) treat me like I must think I’m better than them. There’s 10x the percentage of college graduates in Columbus as there are in the countryside.


Unique User

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2018, 06:04:22 AM »
I live in Raleigh/Durham area.  Lots of high tech jobs, median house price around $260k, most of the area has a lot of green space and is heavily wooded, three universities very close by (NC State, UNC, Duke), NC beaches within a 2 hour drive and mild winters.  Wake County is pretty progressive, however, the rural areas are anything but.   

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2018, 06:28:37 AM »
I live in Raleigh/Durham area.  Lots of high tech jobs, median house price around $260k, most of the area has a lot of green space and is heavily wooded, three universities very close by (NC State, UNC, Duke), NC beaches within a 2 hour drive and mild winters.  Wake County is pretty progressive, however, the rural areas are anything but.

I really like the Raleigh/Durham area. I live near Athens, GA, which feels like a smaller version of the same. Typical small, liberal college city with a great downtown. Rural areas surrounding it are conservative but offer very cheap housing. Plently of job opportunities thanks to the presence of the flagship state university and all of the talent that it attracts. State and local taxes are low. Mild winters, summers can be tough if you don't like heat. Close to the mountains. Couldn't ask for a better place to live, as long as you can ignore the state politicians (or if you like politicians who kiss Trump's ass, then you'll love 'em).

Linea_Norway

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2018, 06:42:49 AM »
There are some websites with a focus focus on living cost after retirement, where you can compare COL:

http://www.nomadsaver.com/
https://www.theearthawaits.com/

honeybbq

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2018, 09:12:24 AM »
If you earn a large salary, consider a state without income tax.

dcheesi

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2018, 10:14:10 AM »
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/retirement/2018/07/12/state-rank-best-overall-retirement-south-dakota/771397002/

South Dakota for the win?

Brutal winters.
I'm also a bit suspicious about the "Well-Being" score, which seems to have favored heavily here. Several of the factors there (the ones related to strong social connections) are likely to be much higher for native South Dakotans than would necessarily be the case for retiree transplants. States like SD with a lower influx of new residents are likely to score higher on these markers, simply because the people who live there are mostly the ones who grew up there; thus, they are more likely to have family nearby, know their neighbors and communities well, etc.

A random FIRE person moving there for the CoL is less likely to have those things right away. And in fact, making new social connections can be more difficult in areas where there's more of an established native population who've known the same people all their lives.

(From the original Bankrate article:
Quote
Nevertheless, South Dakotans are very content with their lives. Gallup’s State of American Well-Being series enlists more than 2.5 million surveys to judge how people feel about five aspects of their lives: purpose (a reason to get up in the morning), social (loving and meaningful relationships), financial (lack of money stress), community (love where you live) and physical (good health). Residents of South Dakota scored the highest on the well-being score and have been in the top six since 2013.
)
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 10:16:26 AM by dcheesi »

the_fixer

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2018, 05:42:02 PM »
One correction about your Colorado assumptions.

The job market is amazing in Colorado businesses are desperate for employees.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


SnackDog

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2018, 06:07:50 PM »
You need LCOL but high wages.  Here are some good candidates -

Tampa
Phoenix
Durham
Ok City
KS City
Omaha

big_slacker

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2018, 06:36:03 AM »
If you earn a large salary, consider a state without income tax.

Yup, lived on the border of CA/NV. Once I started making decent $$ I was no longer a Californian. ;)

When I broke into 6 figures I needed to move to a city for work and no income tax states were a big consideration. TX or WA. WA was better in terms of tech job and *WAY* better in terms of environment.

TX has to be a good state for this thread. Oil and Gas in Houston/Dallas and tech in Austin will have high salaries. Houses are cheap (I know Austin has increased but is way cheap compared to coastal cities) and no income tax. Property tax is high though.

NV should be mentioned as well, Vegas specifically. If you can handle the heat no state income, low COL, plentiful casino jobs, hospital stuff, some tech. I lived here for 5 years and it was easy mode. Till the housing crash at least. ;)

soccerluvof4

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2018, 07:53:53 AM »
Definitely parts of the Carolina's and also Tennessee.

exige

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2018, 08:50:36 AM »
One correction about your Colorado assumptions.

The job market is amazing in Colorado businesses are desperate for employees.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Sadly thats about all that was wrong with his Colorado info though haha and you better find a job and a good paying one to be able to have a roof over your head.

use2betrix

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2018, 08:53:33 AM »
As others mentioned, the state where you can find the highest income vs cost of living. This doesn’t always mean the cheapest state. For my career, if I “had” to stay in one state, it’d be Texas. However since I work as a contractor, I’ve lived in around 8 states over the last decade.

A lot can depend on the career. If someone works a career with relatively standard pay and they aren’t on a higher level with larger pay disparaties, you’d want to go to a state with LCOL vs income.

In many upper management positions, the salaries can vary wildly across the board and the best place to live for FIRE might be where you can get the highest paying job.

AlexMar

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2018, 11:46:59 AM »
There is no right answer.  It depends on what you do for a living and the opportunities available.  There could be more rural/LCOL areas with opportunities for you all over the country.  In which case, you may pick the area you like the best based on other factors like weather.

jpompo

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2018, 01:03:16 PM »
One correction about your Colorado assumptions.

The job market is amazing in Colorado businesses are desperate for employees.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Sadly thats about all that was wrong with his Colorado info though haha and you better find a job and a good paying one to be able to have a roof over your head.

Eh, maybe. Property taxes are super low, like 1/5th of other states, which makes higher housing costs easier to manage. Housing is still reasonable relative to coastal cities and incomes are nearly as high. You can buy a 3 bed/2 bath in Denver (Athmar Park) for <$350k

AlexMar

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2018, 01:14:29 PM »
One correction about your Colorado assumptions.

The job market is amazing in Colorado businesses are desperate for employees.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Sadly thats about all that was wrong with his Colorado info though haha and you better find a job and a good paying one to be able to have a roof over your head.

Eh, maybe. Property taxes are super low, like 1/5th of other states, which makes higher housing costs easier to manage. Housing is still reasonable relative to coastal cities and incomes are nearly as high. You can buy a 3 bed/2 bath in Denver (Athmar Park) for <$350k

Colorado is huge.  Which is why talking about "best States to live in" is almost meaningless.  There is low cost of living areas in virtually every State.  I live in Miami, which many consider relatively high cost of living (my house is $1M+).  Yet I bought a 2nd home in the center of the State.  Lake house, 3/2, pool, boat dock, beautiful home - for $235k.  A county with very low taxes and inexpensive utilities, too.  In Florida.  It's paid off and costs about $300/mo in taxes/insurance/electric.  For a house on a large lake, with a boat and jet skiis.  Yet how many people would call Florida expensive?  The 2nd home is my FIRE home :)

jpompo

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2018, 02:25:25 PM »
Understood, but the original post said they "looked into Colorado" and mentioned homelessness and high housing costs as problems. I think it is safe to assume the OP was talking about the Denver MSA not, Aspen or Pueblo.

AlexMar

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2018, 02:48:56 PM »
That's fair.  It's just such a crazy question to ask on a forum "which State should I live in" - who could possibly answer that one!?

jennifers

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2018, 03:53:47 PM »
Should also consider climate change and how it will affect states in the coming years.
Although this is hard to predict, based on my research the great lakes region might fare better than the south, west, and coasts.

DocMcStuffins

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2018, 04:04:36 PM »
“Wherever you go......there you are”

I live in rural Kentucky. The cost of living is unbeliveably low. As a doctor I make more here than the east coast (agree with the  post above) and my cost of living is much cheaper.

Capt j-rod

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2018, 04:08:28 PM »
Rural medicine demands a premium, but the hours and expectations are horrendous.

super hans

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2018, 07:16:00 PM »
Stay away from Utah!!!

Although the cost of living is somewhat cheap, it's a depressing place to live in, if you are not a Mormon!

use2betrix

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2018, 07:42:24 PM »
Stay away from Utah!!!

Although the cost of living is somewhat cheap, it's a depressing place to live in, if you are not a Mormon!

Can you elaborate more? I’ve heard this a lot and have speculations, but would like some clearer examples. The state has crossed our FIRE list a few times (moreso southern Utah)

Johnez

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2018, 02:46:26 PM »
This probably the fifth "which state to live in" thread I've read, and yet the replies are always fresh.

DocMcStuffins

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2018, 10:53:22 AM »
Rural medicine demands a premium, but the hours and expectations are horrendous.

Not if you are a businessman (person).  Low cost to run practice. I take vacation 8-10 weeks per year.  I am a subspecialist who has no call or weekend hours and works from 8am-4pm (usually done 3:30) 4 days per week and 1/2 day on fridays.  You just have to know how to run a business and be unbelievably effective in the office.  In my practice, when you check in a 8am, I am in the room seeing you by 8:05-8:07 with labs/xrays/meds/everything done so that when you are leaving the practice within 40-45minutes.  People appreciate it (especially non-retired) and actually say they felt like they have more time with me than other offices.  I despise "cattle mill" places where you feel like a number and also despise spending my entire day at the doctor's office (appointment at 8am, leaving at 11am)

Indexer

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2018, 09:41:53 PM »
I live in Raleigh/Durham area.  Lots of high tech jobs, median house price around $260k, most of the area has a lot of green space and is heavily wooded, three universities very close by (NC State, UNC, Duke), NC beaches within a 2 hour drive and mild winters.  Wake County is pretty progressive, however, the rural areas are anything but.


A very similar city would be Charlotte, NC. The main difference being the type of jobs. Raleigh = more tech/research, government, and education(3 universities). Charlotte = more corporate & banking/finance. There are plenty of tech jobs, but most of them will be tech jobs working for big financial institutions. Another consideration, do you prefer to go to the beach for a weekend or the mountains?

Charlotte is much closer to the mountains(1.5-2 hours) than Raleigh, but it is also a little further from the beach(3.5-4 hours).

COEE

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2018, 10:19:19 AM »
Stay away from Utah!!!

Although the cost of living is somewhat cheap, it's a depressing place to live in, if you are not a Mormon!

Can you elaborate more? I’ve heard this a lot and have speculations, but would like some clearer examples. The state has crossed our FIRE list a few times (moreso southern Utah)

+1 - I've been thinking about apply to some jobs in the Logan area... would love to hear some more qualitative information about why it would be so miserable for a small non-religious family there.

lauraah

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2018, 07:02:31 AM »
On the Utah question...  I have never lived in Utah, so maybe I have no business responding to this, but I did grow up Mormon and have some ideas on this.  Utah is overwhelmingly Mormon (LDS).  Mormons tend to have tight-knit communities and in any tight-knit community, I think people within the group are given a benefit of the doubt that people outside the group aren’t.  It’s just a normal, “I trust you and will look out for you a little extra bit because I see you as one of my kind.”  I think in places where a group is in the minority, this is beautiful.  You can move anywhere and already have a built in community and set of friends.  But I would be vary wary of moving to a place where the majority of people were in a group like this and I was in the minority. 

I would expect that if your kids wanted to have friends over for a spend the night or even for a play date , some parents would say no (or insist on getting to personally know you first) because they don’t know/ trust you.  But that they wouldn’t necessarily have that rule for church members.  I would expect that it would be harder to make friends because people are just so involved in their church and see that as the main place to spend time/ make friends.  I would expect that if you ever had a beer around your LDS co-workers, a fourth of them would mentally label you as an alcoholic and be extra wary.  I would also expect that many kind hearted people would earnestly want to convert you.

I think you’d have to view it as moving to a different culture where the culture is generally quite lovely but where you will regularly be reminded in small and large ways that you don’t fit in to it.

Just Joe

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2018, 09:26:05 PM »
lauraah you just described a portion of the people who live in small towns and the south... Not that there aren't other people to be friends with, but some will never be people who are easy to be friends with b/c they carry around all these things you described.

lauraah

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2018, 07:32:24 PM »
JustJoe, that’s a good point.  My husband and I recently moved to a more rural (though not truly rural) area than I have ever lived before.  In eastern NC, it seems like everybody talks lovingly of their church family.  And that’s great for them, but definitely harder to meet people and fit in with them if you’re areligious.

Just Joe

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #36 on: January 02, 2019, 09:03:29 AM »
We didn't feel like we truly fit into our little town until we had kids. Then with the kids' activities we started meeting alot of people. The big social outlets here are work, church and bars. We've made some connections with people at work. We just miss out on the church option b/c it is not for us. We tried it for a while but realized we aren't church people. We don't frequent any bars though a good craft beer is always appreciated.

People have come and gone in our lives over the years. I can think of two families we "lost" to heavy political beliefs (too much opinion and evangelizing for us) and one we lost to religion. We didn't share a couple of religious ideals (we're live and let live people) and they decided it was a big deal all of a sudden that we didn't disapprove of the same things and abandoned us after a decade plus of friendship.

Otherwise we've really enjoyed living in a smallish town. DW and I make a good living and this is an easy LCOL place to live.

cats

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #37 on: January 02, 2019, 11:59:41 AM »
My anecdotal observation has been that perhaps academia has a similar market, or at least salaries remain pretty flat regardless of cost of living. My theory of this is that you have people who went through a crap ton of schooling being told they could get a job anywhere, so they think they "deserve" to live in the places people think of as being the good places to live which creates more competition, so they can be paid less without taking higher cost of living into account. There could also be a concept of "enough" going on in that these professions are often considered a "calling" more so than a way to just make a bunch of money, so as long as you make enough to get by, maybe you become more concerned about where you live, so employers can pay you less in a more desired place and have to pay you more in a less desired place.

My two cents on this is that these days, academics (or just people with PhDs) tend to marry/partner with other people who have PhDs, suddenly they are limited to job seeking in areas where they can BOTH get PhD level work, or one person has to opt to take a career/pay hit.  Expensive major metro areas suddenly become better options than they would be otherwise.

COEE

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #38 on: January 02, 2019, 07:01:28 PM »
We didn't feel like we truly fit into our little town until we had kids. Then with the kids' activities we started meeting alot of people. The big social outlets here are work, church and bars. We've made some connections with people at work. We just miss out on the church option b/c it is not for us. We tried it for a while but realized we aren't church people. We don't frequent any bars though a good craft beer is always appreciated.

People have come and gone in our lives over the years. I can think of two families we "lost" to heavy political beliefs (too much opinion and evangelizing for us) and one we lost to religion. We didn't share a couple of religious ideals (we're live and let live people) and they decided it was a big deal all of a sudden that we didn't disapprove of the same things and abandoned us after a decade plus of friendship.

Otherwise we've really enjoyed living in a smallish town. DW and I make a good living and this is an easy LCOL place to live.

Can you clarify?  Are you in Utah?  If so, care to mention which town?  PM me if you'd like.

Telecaster

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #39 on: January 02, 2019, 08:06:27 PM »
Stay away from Utah!!!

Although the cost of living is somewhat cheap, it's a depressing place to live in, if you are not a Mormon!

Can you elaborate more? I’ve heard this a lot and have speculations, but would like some clearer examples. The state has crossed our FIRE list a few times (moreso southern Utah)

+1 - I've been thinking about apply to some jobs in the Logan area... would love to hear some more qualitative information about why it would be so miserable for a small non-religious family there.

I went to school in Logan.  Here's the scoop:  There are a small number of families who have run the valley for 100+ years, and these families are giant douchebags.  Horrible people. 

The vast majority of Mormons are nice, hardworking people who make excellent neighbors and exhibit the best part of Christian principles.  But most likely they won't be your friends.  Nothing personal.  They already have social networks that consume all their time, and you are the outsider so it is unlikely you will break in.

On the flipside, there is a large, close, non-Mormon network and once you break in there, you know pretty much everybody, and you'll get invited to all of the parties. 

That said, if you are into the outdoors Logan is hard to beat. There are lots of towns that have more of everything, but I don't know of any town that has as much and the variety as Logan, as well as the ease of access.  Everything is all right there.  Skiiing, hiking, biking, kayaking, it is all right there.  Probably not the best of any of those, but you all of those as easy as it can be.   

Radagast

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #40 on: January 02, 2019, 09:32:02 PM »
lauraah and Telecaster hit the major points. Also Mormon social networks double as professional networks. They will hire and to a perhaps lesser extent promote anybody, but benefit of the doubt, all else being equal, couldn't find a dream candidate in a month of looking, they will hire and promote Mormons over other people. It won't be that big a deal if you are not ambitious.

Lmoot

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #41 on: December 26, 2019, 05:45:36 AM »
I live in Raleigh/Durham area.  Lots of high tech jobs, median house price around $260k, most of the area has a lot of green space and is heavily wooded, three universities very close by (NC State, UNC, Duke), NC beaches within a 2 hour drive and mild winters.  Wake County is pretty progressive, however, the rural areas are anything but.

I really like the Raleigh/Durham area. I live near Athens, GA, which feels like a smaller version of the same. Typical small, liberal college city with a great downtown. Rural areas surrounding it are conservative but offer very cheap housing. Plently of job opportunities thanks to the presence of the flagship state university and all of the talent that it attracts. State and local taxes are low. Mild winters, summers can be tough if you don't like heat. Close to the mountains. Couldn't ask for a better place to live, as long as you can ignore the state politicians (or if you like politicians who kiss Trump's ass, then you'll love 'em).

I spent time in GA last fall, for the first time in my life (despite living in FL for over 30 years). I stopped for a night in Athens, on my way to Dahlonega/Blue Ridge and loved it! I still remember my egg white artichoke omelette from Mama's Boy, fondly, and really enjoyed the little bit of downtime I explored (reminded me a lil of a mini Nashville). I even stopped by the Tree that owns itself and collected some acorns, and a year later the saplings are growing in pots here in my yard in FL.

I was really impressed driving through GA. I just wanted to get out of FL and see something a lil different, but I was surprised by how different GA would be. There seemed to be way more history, and even just the landscape and the weather was so different. And very "southern". Being from Central FL, it doesn't feel like the "south" here. I hooked up with some hiking groups from Meetup and love-hated the elevation hiking lol. Stopped by your lovely Bear Hollow zoo. I could definitely live in GA but I'm very close to my family (as in I see them almost everyday), and can't convince them to move there ha!

Frequent visits or a vacation home one day, may have to suffice. I like NC too. I have some family there and a good friend from college just bought a house in Research Triangle Park, near Raleigh.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2019, 05:51:51 AM by Lmoot »

Lmoot

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #42 on: December 26, 2019, 05:56:50 AM »
You need LCOL but high wages.  Here are some good candidates -

Tampa
Phoenix
Durham
Ok City
KS City
Omaha

I have lived in Tampa and while most things are LCOL, the housing is not in Tampa, and it's getting so much worse. Also in the recent years the city has been flooding due to heavy rains and an outdated drainage system (BAD combo for a city on the Bay, where it rains, and is suffering from effects of climate change), so flood insurance is often required and insurance in general, is higher than the rest of the country. When I worked in downtown, it was particularly bad, so bad that for an entire week my job either had us telecommute, or let us off early based on the rain prediction so that we could drive out of downtown (DOWNTOWN TAMPA for christ's sakes), without our cars floating away, because the streets would flood after only 30 min of rain.

And there isn't much to do there as it is mostly a business center, surrounded by sprawling suburbs. If you have kids there are alot of things to do, museums geared towards kids, zoos, aquariums, theme parks. If you're into sports there's tons of that. But there is a lot of blight with only small, unconnected spots of safe and walkable areas; Tampa does not have "good and bad" areas (area implies expansiveness); it has good and bad streets. It is NOT pedestrian friendly (even, ESPECIALLY, downtown), tourists and people traveling for the many concerts and sports events, or thru Tampa to get to the beaches (there aren't beaches there; Tampa is the vestibule for St Pete and Clearwater, that everyone drives through to get to the beaches) maked the already horrid traffic worse.

And probably the worse thing was that there didn't seem to be a clear cultural identity, other than Gasparilla (like a pirate themed Mardi Gras), and a historic cuban culture that mostly centered on old cigar factories. There used to be more of a presence of old Tampa, but that got crowded out with chains and business/commerce and condos.

Also, personal disclaimer: I hate the beach, and flooding and rain and general wetness, and being hot all the time, and crowds. I am much more a mountains and woods and seasons type person, so I may be a bit biased. 
« Last Edit: December 26, 2019, 08:06:09 AM by Lmoot »

norajean

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #43 on: December 26, 2019, 08:03:13 AM »
Letting finances dictate where you live seems like the tail wagging the dog. Live where you want to live and find out how to make it work. Get the best job you can, work hard, and don’t spend. You will thrive and love your life.

Lmoot

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #44 on: December 26, 2019, 08:16:11 AM »
Letting finances dictate where you live seems like the tail wagging the dog. Live where you want to live and find out how to make it work. Get the best job you can, work hard, and don’t spend. You will thrive and love your life.

I used to think the same thing until I realized that no matter where I live, I will still be working for most of my time, and living somewhere more expensive would mean having to work more And possibly having less to spend on vacation and free time. So there can absolutely be a quality of life aspect to deciding to live where are you don’t  play, so that you can afford to take time off and travel to the places you like to play.

If you are someone that prefers frequent and consistent access to entertainment and recreation, then yes living in a place that is specific to the preferred pastimes would be valuable. But if you’re someone like me who’s day-to-day life will be similar no matter where I live, due to working seven days per week and being a homebody, And who prefers to take designated time off to explore different places and entertainment, rather than trying to pack it into an already hectic and busy work week, Living somewhere for convenience of cost-of-living, or being near family, will take precedence over other things.

There is no rule that states you have to spend all of your time where you live and work. I have recently discovered the joy of taking weekend trips out of state, or even just exploring new areas of my own state.

Buffaloski Boris

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #45 on: December 26, 2019, 06:54:16 PM »
I would avoid Virginia, at least the major urban areas. Increasing cost of living, and the Commonthievery takes pride in nickel and diming you at every opportunity. The whole state is a speed trap. Crummy traffic especially in Northern Virginia and tidewater. Lots of outdoor activities but every biting insect imaginable. And the governance is more akin to an aristocracy.

msbutterbean

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #46 on: December 26, 2019, 07:00:21 PM »
I think there's a fairly good chance that at least two of my kids will relocate near where I retire and likely have families of their own, so I'm looking for things that I think make a place liveable: an educated populace and a commitment to educating future generations, strong environmental laws, and access to high-quality medical care, including abortion services. Oh, and snow!

RobertFromTX

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #47 on: December 26, 2019, 07:19:00 PM »
If financial reasons are your only considerations... there's no better place than Texas.

1. Jobs are plenty. Even during the great recessions, Texas held pretty strong. And during oil booms, you can go out to west texas and really rake it in.
2. Housing costs are cheap! I live in a mid-sized city (Not DFW/Austin/Houston) and nice big homes can be had for $100/sqft.
3. No income tax (but we make up for with property taxes and sales tax, its still less in total than most states)
4. Gas prices are cheap (currently $2/gal)
5. Food prices are cheap (especially if you like shopping at the mexican supermercados).

It really is the land of opportunity here. The downsides are its not generally bicycle friendly and there's no mountains. The beaches are quite terrible too. The diversity here is wonderful and you'll have plenty of opportunities to pick up a 2nd language.

LiveLean

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #48 on: December 26, 2019, 07:42:14 PM »
You need LCOL but high wages.  Here are some good candidates -

Tampa
Phoenix
Durham
Ok City
KS City
Omaha

I have lived in Tampa and while most things are LCOL, the housing is not in Tampa, and it's getting so much worse. Also in the recent years the city has been flooding due to heavy rains and an outdated drainage system (BAD combo for a city on the Bay, where it rains, and is suffering from effects of climate change), so flood insurance is often required and insurance in general, is higher than the rest of the country. When I worked in downtown, it was particularly bad, so bad that for an entire week my job either had us telecommute, or let us off early based on the rain prediction so that we could drive out of downtown (DOWNTOWN TAMPA for christ's sakes), without our cars floating away, because the streets would flood after only 30 min of rain.

And there isn't much to do there as it is mostly a business center, surrounded by sprawling suburbs. If you have kids there are alot of things to do, museums geared towards kids, zoos, aquariums, theme parks. If you're into sports there's tons of that. But there is a lot of blight with only small, unconnected spots of safe and walkable areas; Tampa does not have "good and bad" areas (area implies expansiveness); it has good and bad streets. It is NOT pedestrian friendly (even, ESPECIALLY, downtown), tourists and people traveling for the many concerts and sports events, or thru Tampa to get to the beaches (there aren't beaches there; Tampa is the vestibule for St Pete and Clearwater, that everyone drives through to get to the beaches) maked the already horrid traffic worse.

And probably the worse thing was that there didn't seem to be a clear cultural identity, other than Gasparilla (like a pirate themed Mardi Gras), and a historic cuban culture that mostly centered on old cigar factories. There used to be more of a presence of old Tampa, but that got crowded out with chains and business/commerce and condos.

Also, personal disclaimer: I hate the beach, and flooding and rain and general wetness, and being hot all the time, and crowds. I am much more a mountains and woods and seasons type person, so I may be a bit biased.


You don't like the beach and you're more of a mountains and outdoorsy person? Geez, can't imagine why you wouldn't like the Tampa area. You sound like someone for whom Outside magazine is forever writing another version of its best-places-to-bike-and-drink-craft-beer stories.

I've lived in Tampa 22 years. Came here at 28 to escape the traffic, cold winters, state income taxes and general insufferable people of DC/MD/Va. Here's what's great about Tampa Bay, in no particular order.

1. Best Airport in the country, hands down.
2. Awesome weather.
3. No state income tax.
4. Negligible traffic. (I lived in NOVA until age 28 and have spent lots of time in Atlanta and LA. Tampa traffic on its worst day is better than an average day in any of those three.)
5. We have some of the highest-rated beaches in the country by Dr. Beach, the dude who does those ratings.
6. If you're a triathlete, this might be the best place in the county.
7. Ditto for stand-up paddle boarding.
8. Fishing, boating, awesome. Pinellas County is surrounded by water.
9. Tarpon Springs -- largest concentration of Greeks outside of Greece. The Sponge Docks district feels like you're on a Greek island.
10. Spring training baseball.
11. LCOL - If you're looking for a cushy, six-figure corporate job, this is not the place for you. But if you're a self-starter or someone who can work anywhere, this is absolutely the best place to be.
12. Awesome place to raise kids. Public schools are not great BUT they have many magnet, gifted and other options. My kids could go to literally a dozen public high schools. We have friends in St. Pete whose daughter drives an hour each way to school in Tarpon Springs because it has a high school veterinarian program. Public school.
13. A dozen little beach communities, each with its own character. (Oh yeah, that beach thing again.)
14. It has a wonderful funky nature to it. Yes, it's full of people from Carl Hiaasen and Tim Dorsey novels - Dorsey lives here, too - but if you want homogeneity, go live in freakin' north Atlanta.
15. Ybor City? Please. St. Pete has been the more popular nightspot for more than a decade. If nightlife and craft breweries are your thing - not mine, but I get it - St. Pete is awesome.

« Last Edit: December 26, 2019, 07:46:21 PM by LiveLean »

Lmoot

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Re: Best States to Live in
« Reply #49 on: December 27, 2019, 03:19:45 AM »
You need LCOL but high wages.  Here are some good candidates -

Tampa
Phoenix
Durham
Ok City
KS City
Omaha

I have lived in Tampa and while most things are LCOL, the housing is not in Tampa, and it's getting so much worse. Also in the recent years the city has been flooding due to heavy rains and an outdated drainage system (BAD combo for a city on the Bay, where it rains, and is suffering from effects of climate change), so flood insurance is often required and insurance in general, is higher than the rest of the country. When I worked in downtown, it was particularly bad, so bad that for an entire week my job either had us telecommute, or let us off early based on the rain prediction so that we could drive out of downtown (DOWNTOWN TAMPA for christ's sakes), without our cars floating away, because the streets would flood after only 30 min of rain.

And there isn't much to do there as it is mostly a business center, surrounded by sprawling suburbs. If you have kids there are alot of things to do, museums geared towards kids, zoos, aquariums, theme parks. If you're into sports there's tons of that. But there is a lot of blight with only small, unconnected spots of safe and walkable areas; Tampa does not have "good and bad" areas (area implies expansiveness); it has good and bad streets. It is NOT pedestrian friendly (even, ESPECIALLY, downtown), tourists and people traveling for the many concerts and sports events, or thru Tampa to get to the beaches (there aren't beaches there; Tampa is the vestibule for St Pete and Clearwater, that everyone drives through to get to the beaches) maked the already horrid traffic worse.

And probably the worse thing was that there didn't seem to be a clear cultural identity, other than Gasparilla (like a pirate themed Mardi Gras), and a historic cuban culture that mostly centered on old cigar factories. There used to be more of a presence of old Tampa, but that got crowded out with chains and business/commerce and condos.

Also, personal disclaimer: I hate the beach, and flooding and rain and general wetness, and being hot all the time, and crowds. I am much more a mountains and woods and seasons type person, so I may be a bit biased.


You don't like the beach and you're more of a mountains and outdoorsy person? Geez, can't imagine why you wouldn't like the Tampa area. You sound like someone for whom Outside magazine is forever writing another version of its best-places-to-bike-and-drink-craft-beer stories.

I've lived in Tampa 22 years. Came here at 28 to escape the traffic, cold winters, state income taxes and general insufferable people of DC/MD/Va. Here's what's great about Tampa Bay, in no particular order.

1. Best Airport in the country, hands down.
2. Awesome weather.
3. No state income tax.
4. Negligible traffic. (I lived in NOVA until age 28 and have spent lots of time in Atlanta and LA. Tampa traffic on its worst day is better than an average day in any of those three.)
5. We have some of the highest-rated beaches in the country by Dr. Beach, the dude who does those ratings.
6. If you're a triathlete, this might be the best place in the county.
7. Ditto for stand-up paddle boarding.
8. Fishing, boating, awesome. Pinellas County is surrounded by water.
9. Tarpon Springs -- largest concentration of Greeks outside of Greece. The Sponge Docks district feels like you're on a Greek island.
10. Spring training baseball.
11. LCOL - If you're looking for a cushy, six-figure corporate job, this is not the place for you. But if you're a self-starter or someone who can work anywhere, this is absolutely the best place to be.
12. Awesome place to raise kids. Public schools are not great BUT they have many magnet, gifted and other options. My kids could go to literally a dozen public high schools. We have friends in St. Pete whose daughter drives an hour each way to school in Tarpon Springs because it has a high school veterinarian program. Public school.
13. A dozen little beach communities, each with its own character. (Oh yeah, that beach thing again.)
14. It has a wonderful funky nature to it. Yes, it's full of people from Carl Hiaasen and Tim Dorsey novels - Dorsey lives here, too - but if you want homogeneity, go live in freakin' north Atlanta.
15. Ybor City? Please. St. Pete has been the more popular nightspot for more than a decade. If nightlife and craft breweries are your thing - not mine, but I get it - St. Pete is awesome.

Oh yeah, much of that is true. Much of that is also not in Tampa LOL! One thing I forgot to mention is that a big thing going for Tampa is that it is near the places you mentioned.  I lived in Florida nearly my entire life because my family is here, but I definitely am not a biking and craft beer type LOL! In fact I pretty much stay clear of the craft beer, distillery, artsy cafés. Seminole Heights is absolutely not my scene. It’s a charming little place I have friends that live there and I love the little bungalow‘s, but I don’t necessarily frequent the boutique restaurants and shops so when I lived there I agree, the “scene” was wasted on me. Other than a trip to Jamaica and a trip to Honeymoon Island for work, I haven’t been to a beach in 10 years.

When I went to Florida State I used to hike 10 - 15 miles up and down the coastal tip of St George Island without seeing a single soul for hours. The beach was a nature reserve on the shore, and you could see all sorts of coastal plants, wading birds and dolphins and other marine life. When I got hot I would jump into the water and swim a quarter-mile out to the sandbar where the dolphins would be jumping less than 100 feet away. With the exception of maybe Honeymoon Island, it resembled nothing of the beaches near Tampa Clearwater and Saint Pete.

So I guess it’s unfair to beaches for me to say that I don’t like them. I just don’t like beaches with people on them. Beaches lined with condos and parking lots. Beaches that are man-made and they dump sand to fight back the erosion. The only beach with people I liked was when I was in my 20’s we used to go to the big drum circle on Treasure Island, until the tourists and condo owners on the beach complained about the noise.Tampa is wonderful for water sports. I am not into water sports, or sports as a spectator. It’s just not a good fit for me LOL. But I am truly happy that it’s good for you and your family. You have embraced the spirit. like I mentioned I had lived in or near there mist of my life, and I think there’s something about traveling to someplace new, especially moving there that makes you feel like you want to embrace everything about it and learn everything about it and jump right in and be a part of the community. You loved it because it was something completely different than where you came from. Just like mountains and seasons would be a complete turnaround for what I have been marinating in my entire life. Which is heat, moisture, twice a year hurricane threats and mosquitoes.

Nowadays I hang out with old Florida crackers in the Withlacootchie forest, learning about the history and traditions of early Florida. I much prefer the northern part of Florida to the beachy south and central parts. Pine forests are my happy place. And they smell better than the beach, With all its red tide victims stinking up the place.

 If I were to recommend living in Florida to someone who maybe wasn’t into the beach bum lifestyle, I would give two thumbs up for Gainesville in northern Florida. Lots of parks, and still has that small town feel with town squares, and yes plenty of independent boutique businesses. Family friendly. Very outdoorsy. It’s a designated tree city. College town (university of Florida, Gators). Best of all, the houses there are some of the cheapest in Florida, yet still in relatively safe areas, and if mid century architecture is your thing most of the houses are original condition MCM or traditional concrete block  designs.

And if you like doing things in the water, there are plenty of areas to kayak there. And if you like hiking, there is even a little wee tiny bit of elevation hiking there and just south in Ocala.  Plus if you want to head to the mountains for the weekend, you’re only 6 hours from the Blue Ridge mountains, And if you want the beach and bay you are only two hours south to Tampa/Clearwater st Pete. And if you want the mouse, you’re only an hour and a half away from Disney World and Orlando theme parks.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2019, 04:09:02 AM by Lmoot »