Author Topic: Best days while working vs retired  (Read 6093 times)

EnjoyIt

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Best days while working vs retired
« on: April 30, 2016, 10:20:43 AM »
A little about me.  I work about 15 days a month with some intermittent phone calls and emails on the other days.  My work days are very sporadic.  Sometimes I will work 2 days with a few days off, sometimes I will work 6 days in a row and get a long stretch of time off. By the way, those 15 days is full time.  I work anywhere between 32-37 hours a week on average since some days are 11-12hour days. This doesn't include home phone calls and emails. Here is what I notice:

My favorite, happiest days that I can think of that don't involve travel look like this.  I wake up and have a healthy delicious breakfast with a cappuccino.  Play a little on the internet, then ride bike, go swimming, or go to the gym. Followed by getting fresh groceries, spend time with wife and the dogs, then eat a healthy self prepared lunch.  Later I try and do something positive around the house, make a healthy delicious dinner, then at night watch a movie, catch some music, or something else that is fun.  Not very expensive but chock full of fun and happiness.

I realize also that when I have a long string of days off, I get less and less enjoyment from each subsequent day.  I need a day or two at work which I also enjoy for other reasons to then give me more happiness on my days off.  I end up appreciating the time off that much more.  I find that when I have too much time off, I become stagnant and complacent. 

I guess my point is that maybe the answer to happiness isn't early retirement.  At least with me, I notice that early semi-retirement is the way to increased happiness.  People often comment how when one retires they have less motivation in life and become less healthy. In the future, I hope to work 8-10 days a month with no emails or phone calls on my days off.

Please provide some of your thoughts.  Especially those in retirement or semi-retirement already.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 10:27:42 AM by EnjoyIt »

Moustachienne

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Re: best days while working vs retired
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2016, 10:31:09 AM »
Well, everyone's different and the point is to find activities that give you pleasure and meaning.  For some people that might look like your non-work days, for others that won't be enough structure/accountability.  There's no rule.  Dr. Doom's blog is really good on the stages of sorting this out.  https://livingafi.com

Spoiler alert - few of us settle this question once and for all.  Life circumstances and our preferences change and the answer to how best to spend our time changes too.

bobechs

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Re: Best days while working vs retired
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2016, 11:28:20 AM »
Variety is, of course, the spice of life.  It's a cliche for a reason.

But it an unusual situation that offers a wide range of palatable activities.  Work, by design it seems, funds a reasonably abundant present and future only when it is a deal with the Devil; long hours, high stress, ugly personal dynamics and soul-abrading compromises away from how we would really like to live. 

We do it because we must, and often do it to an especially unpleasant degree because if we make hay while the sun shines then we can fund not doing it to an unpleasant degree for the rest of our lives.  Most of these deals exclude the practical possibility of dialing back.  Hell, they even exclude the possibility of even coming back on the same old terms, once you break off from the main herd.

Doubt it? Look at the job seeker's paranoia about resume gaps, stale skills, not staying on the tiger or even the impossibility turning down the intensity of being annual-goal-managed at work. Paranoiac to be sure,  but a paranoia that was created by life experience.

Yeah, it is easy to say just live a better, more balanced work-home dynamic.  But that is a lot like just saying 'win the lottery'.

So, for all but the outlier cases it is a Hobson's choice: bear down like a motherfucker to reach FIRE, writing off the unpleasantness of now for a better future or-- what?


tobitonic

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Re: Best days while working vs retired
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2016, 11:35:23 AM »
I'm in this camp (as are a lot of people outside of this forum). The Blue Zones books suggest pretty strongly that the communities where folks live the longest, healthiest, and happiest lives aren't filled with early retirees, but with folks who stay active and connected to others on a daily basis. In particular, they identify a sense of purpose, good eating habits, natural exercise, and social interactions as the four pillars. The fact that there are so many threads in the pre- and post-RE subforums about what to do when retired, whether to return to work, how to make friends, and so on only reinforces these findings. People here instinctively get this on some level, even if they would never directly say that the reason they're so desperate to find hobbies and friends when retired is because they'd naturally turn into depressed hermits if they didn't have to show up to work on a daily basis.

A number of other studies have also suggested that the risk of death rises sharply after retirement, and that early retirees tend to die sooner than traditional retirees. Some of this is ostensibly related to health concerns that force some folks into early retirement, but I definitely feel the lack of purpose that comes from leaving a job and the social connections most people establish within them are at least as large of a factor, if not the dominant factor. The Okinawans call it ikigai; the Nicoyans call it a plan de vida. To put it simply, you need a reason to get up in the morning, and you need to feel connected to people on some level (or as Freud called it, work and love). Retirement, early or otherwise, doesn't necessarily give you either of these things, although you can find or maintain these things in RE, just as you can in R. However, you can also find it through work.

Personally, if we had enough money right now to convince DW we could RE (I'm guessing this would be at least 2.25M...1M for four college funds and 1.25M for 50k in dividends), I'm pretty sure I wouldn't RE, at least unless I were going into a different career path (at which point I wouldn't be RE). I'm a preschool teacher, and I get the purpose in droves from working with my kids and the socialization from interacting with coworkers, even though there's an endless amount of administrative nonsense to deal with. I'm pretty sure DW would want to start some kind of small sustainable business involving children, education, and homesteading, so I could hop to that for purpose and such. But my point is that I wouldn't automatically jump ship. I'm a very strong introvert, and I know I'd want to spend all day when not with DW or the kids listening to music and surfing the Internet, and that wouldn't be the best thing for me to do, though I'd thoroughly enjoy it.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 12:16:06 PM by tobitonic »

tobitonic

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Re: Best days while working vs retired
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2016, 11:58:02 AM »
And of course, I'm not saying the secret to happiness is to work until you drop...but I do firmly believe that a purpose of some kind is a universal need (as well as a connection to others), whether that comes from a "day job" or not. If I weren't a preschool teacher, I could see myself quite happy as a musician or a photographer or an author or a doctor or a nurse or number of other jobs.

This, as an addition, doesn't even get into the research indicating that the folks who are happiest in their old age are rarely the richest members of their societies; in contrast, those who most strongly identify purpose and connections in their lives tend to be the ones who are the most satisfied, with the fewest age-related illnesses, greatest mobility, and so on. It reminds me of how Gottmann (a marital researcher) writes about how spending half an hour working on your marriage each week will do more for your longevity than that same half hour at the gym. Of course, that's also supported by longevity research, since the folks who are the healthiest in their 70s, 80s, and 90s pretty much never visit gyms, nor were renowned athletes in their younger days, but "exercise" by daily activities, like walking, gardening, yoga, cooking, etc.

Cassie

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Re: Best days while working vs retired
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2016, 12:56:02 PM »
We fully retired at 53 and 58 and within 6 months got bored and starting consulting p.t. in our fields. I also teach a class at the university. For us this is the perfect situation. I probably work 10-15 hours/week.

frugal_c

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Re: Best days while working vs retired
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2016, 02:00:46 PM »
EnjoyIt,

I 100% agree with you.  For this reason I am much more interested in FI than FIRE.  I think if I could just work less and had the security that I could cover expenses if I lost my job, that would be the ideal situation.

PhysicianOnFIRE

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Re: Best days while working vs retired
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2016, 03:29:28 PM »
That's an interesting observation, that the joy of having a day off starts to trail off after awhile.  I can't say I've felt the same when I've had longer stretches off.

If anything, I cherish the days towards the end of a longer stretch off a little more, knowing that I'll soon be going back to work and there's little time left to "get stuff done" before heading back to early mornings and late nights @ the hospital.

What I can't say is what it might feel like after a month or 2, or a year. Fortunately, for the early retired physician, locums can be an attractive option to get back into the game if retirement isn't working out.


Trudie

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Re: Best days while working vs retired
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2016, 03:44:45 PM »
Interesting thread.  I watched my folks in early retirement and saw them struggle with having a sense of purpose for awhile.  Social connection is a big deal and my husband and I are trying to make our decisions accordingly.

I have wondered about the social connection that's inherently built in with work.  I'm seriously considering getting a certificate (in horticulture) after I ER so that I can possibly work for a plant nursery or agricultural enterprise (abundant in Iowa).  I may also teach a class or do part time seasonal work in my current field (CPA).  Not sure yet what balance will strike me, but I'm staying open to the possibilities.

EnjoyIt

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Re: Best days while working vs retired
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2016, 08:18:19 PM »
Thank you all for your comments.  I am glad people are responding with their perspective.

Well, everyone's different and the point is to find activities that give you pleasure and meaning.  For some people that might look like your non-work days, for others that won't be enough structure/accountability.  There's no rule.  Dr. Doom's blog is really good on the stages of sorting this out.  https://livingafi.com

I checked out that blog and ran right into his April Fools post.  At first I thought it was real hitting what I have been talking about. Eventually I realized it had to be a joke when he recreated his boss.  Very funny stuff.

Yeah, it is easy to say just live a better, more balanced work-home dynamic.  But that is a lot like just saying 'win the lottery'.

I can't imagine all work sucks. I like what I do.  It is fun, and I do a whole lot of good for a whole lot of people.  It is very fulfilling.  I just don't want to do it every day.  Just on some days, when I want.  I think that is fair, no?

tobitonic,
Awesome that you found something you enjoy doing.  It must be amazing to really be into what you do.  Makes waking up every morning so much more joyful.

We fully retired at 53 and 58 and within 6 months got bored and starting consulting p.t. in our fields. I also teach a class at the university. For us this is the perfect situation. I probably work 10-15 hours/week.

Right, there is so much more to my life than just FIRE.  I think I too would be bored.

That's an interesting observation, that the joy of having a day off starts to trail off after awhile.  I can't say I've felt the same when I've had longer stretches off.

If anything, I cherish the days towards the end of a longer stretch off a little more, knowing that I'll soon be going back to work and there's little time left to "get stuff done" before heading back to early mornings and late nights @ the hospital.

What I can't say is what it might feel like after a month or 2, or a year. Fortunately, for the early retired physician, locums can be an attractive option to get back into the game if retirement isn't working out.

Several years ago I switched jobs and purposely took 6 weeks off in between.  I traveled a little, hung out with friends, but by week 4 I was itching to do something else and get back to work.

Interesting thread.  I watched my folks in early retirement and saw them struggle with having a sense of purpose for awhile.  Social connection is a big deal and my husband and I are trying to make our decisions accordingly.

I have wondered about the social connection that's inherently built in with work.  I'm seriously considering getting a certificate (in horticulture) after I ER so that I can possibly work for a plant nursery or agricultural enterprise (abundant in Iowa).  I may also teach a class or do part time seasonal work in my current field (CPA).  Not sure yet what balance will strike me, but I'm staying open to the possibilities.

Looking to grow weed for a living? :)  Just kidding. 

ender

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Re: Best days while working vs retired
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2016, 08:28:35 PM »
Interesting thread.  I watched my folks in early retirement and saw them struggle with having a sense of purpose for awhile.  Social connection is a big deal and my husband and I are trying to make our decisions accordingly.

I have wondered about the social connection that's inherently built in with work.  I'm seriously considering getting a certificate (in horticulture) after I ER so that I can possibly work for a plant nursery or agricultural enterprise (abundant in Iowa).  I may also teach a class or do part time seasonal work in my current field (CPA).  Not sure yet what balance will strike me, but I'm staying open to the possibilities.

Coincidentally I was just researching this tonight, there are university extensions in Iowa to teach a lot of gardening things. Iowa State has something like this and I'm sure their extension has offices close to where you live - http://www.extension.iastate.edu/mastergardener/search/content?f%5B0%5D=im_field_category%3A2&retain-filters=1

forummm

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Re: Best days while working vs retired
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2016, 06:08:36 AM »
I have a similar pattern for days off as you do now. But that's because I have a limited amount of time off in a row. If I had many months to do whatever I wanted I would add projects to the mix. Fixing the garage door (which I've needed to do for a few years now), working on a puzzle, taking classes online, fencing the yard, clearing out the weeds, etc. I'd also be happy to do more than one movie in a day sometimes. Or read a lot. I'm not worried about having a shortage of things to do. There's always something interesting to learn. And I could always get another job or volunteer somewhere.

Cranky

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Re: Best days while working vs retired
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2016, 06:24:43 AM »
I always say I work because otherwise I'd be a hermit, but I really enjoy my job. I'm a teacher, so I have summers off and I do love that because I have time for gardening and for big projects, but I always look forward to the new school year.

I think that balance is different for everyone - if you really hate what you do, you mostly want to just stop doing it. I can sympathize with that, but I think many people would be happier working at something they enjoy, even if it doesn't pay much.

 

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