Author Topic: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?  (Read 83494 times)

Jon_Snow

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4458
  • Location: An Island in the Salish Sea (or Baja)
  • I am no man’s chair.
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #250 on: February 26, 2015, 04:58:53 PM »
The winter conditions experienced east of the Rockies should automatically remove Canada from contention. Sorry. I am Canadian, and proudly so, so I feel I can say this without prejudice.

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20742
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #251 on: February 26, 2015, 06:06:35 PM »
"The winter conditions experienced east of the Rockies should automatically remove Canada from contention. Sorry. I am Canadian, and proudly so, so I feel I can say this without prejudice."

Yes, and if we all moved to Lotus Land the whole continent would tilt   ;-)

It makes us tough, eh?  Plus it gives us an incentive to see foreign lands and cultures (especially those in the Caribbean in January-March).

totoro

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2188
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #252 on: February 26, 2015, 06:22:10 PM »
I have not read through the whole thread but I vote Canada but only for Vancouver Island or the Okanagan.  Canada has some crazy cold spots and a lot of wide open undeveloped areas that you'd have to be an into the wild type to truly love.  Hit the sweet spots and there really is no better place on earth imo.

Al1961

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 225
  • Age: 62
  • Location: Alberta - B.C.
  • Dad of a husky Husky
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #253 on: February 26, 2015, 06:37:09 PM »
Canada is high on the list of desirable countries to live in. We just have a climate problem.

The problem is that we have a deplorable excess of climate.

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20742
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #254 on: February 27, 2015, 05:56:30 AM »
Climate -> seasons -> almost winter, winter, still winter, construction/mosquito season.  At least when we have the polar lows it is sunny - cold and damp and dreary is worse (November, I am looking at you).

I still think we should have brought in the Turks and Caicos as the 11th province when it was proposed back in the 70's.  They would have certainly improved our climate situation.

Canada is high on the list of desirable countries to live in. We just have a climate problem.

The problem is that we have a deplorable excess of climate.

Albert

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1244
  • Location: Switzerland
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #255 on: February 27, 2015, 10:17:51 AM »
US is good for many things, but it's not exactly blessed with a good climate either. There are only handful of places in continental US with a pleasant climate. Top of the list is probably Southern coastal California. After that I'm not even sure. Perhaps some areas higher up in the mountains in Colorado (never been there, though). Everywhere else is either too cold in winter, too rainy in winter or too hot in summer.

marketnonsenses

  • Guest
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #256 on: February 27, 2015, 10:28:22 AM »
US is good for many things, but it's not exactly blessed with a good climate either. There are only handful of places in continental US with a pleasant climate. Top of the list is probably Southern coastal California. After that I'm not even sure. Perhaps some areas higher up in the mountains in Colorado (never been there, though). Everywhere else is either too cold in winter, too rainy in winter or too hot in summer.

The US has one of the most broad climates for one country. It has everything from Swamps to Rain forest, Arctic and one of the hottest places on earth. California alone has more diversity than most countries.

Albert

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1244
  • Location: Switzerland
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #257 on: February 27, 2015, 10:43:21 AM »
The US has one of the most broad climates for one country. It has everything from Swamps to Rain forest, Arctic and one of the hottest places on earth. California alone has more diversity than most countries.

Lot of diversity indeed, but not many places pleasant year round. Just in case you wonder I've lived in US for eight years and know your country fairly well. California has by far the best climate in US, but the most desirable spots are now marred by very high cost of living.

jzb11

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 137
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #258 on: February 27, 2015, 12:08:25 PM »
I've been to twenty five different countries. I'm currently living in South America. I'd say the USA is the best place to live for anyone who wants to live in the suburbs and own a home hands down. You simply can't find the kind of affordable housing in the USA in Europe.

Other than that:

Less bureaucracy than EU nations by far
Low cost of living, cheapest food/goods/gas/housing (EU can't touch this)
High quality/affordable goods 
Comfort/convenience - 24 hour shopping centers/restaurants/etc.
ABUNDANCE - there is a lot and it is inexpensive
If your hobby is firearms, you can't be the USA, especially if you live in a less restrictive State.

Talking about suburban life, I think the USA is king. City life? I'm not so sure, I've never really lived in a city in USA or EU.

I am living in South America at the moment, and there's no comparison. The USA is paradise in comparison.

deborah

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 15960
  • Age: 14
  • Location: Australia or another awesome area
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #259 on: February 27, 2015, 12:26:50 PM »
Well, according to the 2015 Global Retirement Index the USA is 19th - Switzerland, Norway, Australia. See http://ngam.natixis.com/global/1422746034925/Global+Retirement+Index+Report - other places mentioned here also rank above the USA - NZ is 10th and Canada is 12th.

Who wants to live in a place where people are so afraid of one another that mothers carry guns in their purses to shopping centres?

mak1277

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 792
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #260 on: February 27, 2015, 12:30:50 PM »
Well, according to the 2015 Global Retirement Index the USA is 19th - Switzerland, Norway, Australia. See http://ngam.natixis.com/global/1422746034925/Global+Retirement+Index+Report - other places mentioned here also rank above the USA - NZ is 10th and Canada is 12th.

Who wants to live in a place where people are so afraid of one another that mothers carry guns in their purses to shopping centres?

I'd much rather live in a place where I have the freedom to choose whether or not I can carry a gun than a place where that freedom has been stolen from me. 

OSUBearCub

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 397
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Orlando, Florida
  • Tackling student loan debt/not saving dryer lint.
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #261 on: February 27, 2015, 12:36:05 PM »
Well, according to the 2015 Global Retirement Index the USA is 19th - Switzerland, Norway, Australia. See http://ngam.natixis.com/global/1422746034925/Global+Retirement+Index+Report - other places mentioned here also rank above the USA - NZ is 10th and Canada is 12th.

Who wants to live in a place where people are so afraid of one another that mothers carry guns in their purses to shopping centres?

Again, Deborah? Again?

We get it.  Australia is a solid nation with a lot to be proud of. 

The "mommies with guns" trope is both trite and a wild misrepresentation of what the US is all about.  That's like me saying Australia blows because every member of the animal kingdom in Australia is trying to kill you.  The dingo ate your argument.

deborah

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 15960
  • Age: 14
  • Location: Australia or another awesome area
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #262 on: February 27, 2015, 12:59:49 PM »
Well, according to the 2015 Global Retirement Index the USA is 19th - Switzerland, Norway, Australia. See http://ngam.natixis.com/global/1422746034925/Global+Retirement+Index+Report - other places mentioned here also rank above the USA - NZ is 10th and Canada is 12th.

Who wants to live in a place where people are so afraid of one another that mothers carry guns in their purses to shopping centres?

Again, Deborah? Again?

We get it.  Australia is a solid nation with a lot to be proud of. 

The "mommies with guns" trope is both trite and a wild misrepresentation of what the US is all about.  That's like me saying Australia blows because every member of the animal kingdom in Australia is trying to kill you.  The dingo ate your argument.
No, I really think the mommies with guns argument IS what the US is about - several people have commented in this thread making their point that FREEDOM = GUNS (including the post IMMEDIATELY before yours)- and as I have stated before there are loads of good countries. Brown snakes (second most venomous land snake in the world) are very common and I have seen several this year. But I will leave you with a picture that I took yesterday of the wildlife of Australia:
« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 01:01:52 PM by deborah »

mak1277

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 792
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #263 on: February 27, 2015, 01:03:28 PM »
Well, according to the 2015 Global Retirement Index the USA is 19th - Switzerland, Norway, Australia. See http://ngam.natixis.com/global/1422746034925/Global+Retirement+Index+Report - other places mentioned here also rank above the USA - NZ is 10th and Canada is 12th.

Who wants to live in a place where people are so afraid of one another that mothers carry guns in their purses to shopping centres?

Again, Deborah? Again?

We get it.  Australia is a solid nation with a lot to be proud of. 

The "mommies with guns" trope is both trite and a wild misrepresentation of what the US is all about.  That's like me saying Australia blows because every member of the animal kingdom in Australia is trying to kill you.  The dingo ate your argument.
No, I really think the mommies with guns argument IS what the US is about - several people have commented in this thread making their point that FREEDOM = GUNS (including the post IMMEDIATELY before yours)- and as I have stated before there are loads of good countries. But I will leave you with a picture that I took yesterday of the wildlife of Australia:

Freedom to own guns is a freedom...it's not the only freedom or the most important freedom, but it's an example.  I could also say that I would rather live in a country where I have the freedom of religion vs. a country where I do not.

You're focused on "guns"...you should be focused on "freedom".  As it relates to guns, I neither carry nor own a handgun, but I'm damn sure glad I have the option to do so if I want. 

OSUBearCub

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 397
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Orlando, Florida
  • Tackling student loan debt/not saving dryer lint.
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #264 on: February 27, 2015, 01:11:15 PM »
Well, according to the 2015 Global Retirement Index the USA is 19th - Switzerland, Norway, Australia. See http://ngam.natixis.com/global/1422746034925/Global+Retirement+Index+Report - other places mentioned here also rank above the USA - NZ is 10th and Canada is 12th.

Who wants to live in a place where people are so afraid of one another that mothers carry guns in their purses to shopping centres?

Again, Deborah? Again?

We get it.  Australia is a solid nation with a lot to be proud of. 

The "mommies with guns" trope is both trite and a wild misrepresentation of what the US is all about.  That's like me saying Australia blows because every member of the animal kingdom in Australia is trying to kill you.  The dingo ate your argument.
No, I really think the mommies with guns argument IS what the US is about - several people have commented in this thread making their point that FREEDOM = GUNS (including the post IMMEDIATELY before yours)- and as I have stated before there are loads of good countries. Brown snakes (second most venomous land snake in the world) are very common and I have seen several this year. But I will leave you with a picture that I took yesterday of the wildlife of Australia:

That sea lion is clearly plotting a murder...

lizzie

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 174
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #265 on: February 27, 2015, 01:26:43 PM »
Well, according to the 2015 Global Retirement Index the USA is 19th - Switzerland, Norway, Australia. See http://ngam.natixis.com/global/1422746034925/Global+Retirement+Index+Report - other places mentioned here also rank above the USA - NZ is 10th and Canada is 12th.

Who wants to live in a place where people are so afraid of one another that mothers carry guns in their purses to shopping centres?

Again, Deborah? Again?

We get it.  Australia is a solid nation with a lot to be proud of. 

The "mommies with guns" trope is both trite and a wild misrepresentation of what the US is all about.  That's like me saying Australia blows because every member of the animal kingdom in Australia is trying to kill you.  The dingo ate your argument.
No, I really think the mommies with guns argument IS what the US is about - several people have commented in this thread making their point that FREEDOM = GUNS (including the post IMMEDIATELY before yours)- and as I have stated before there are loads of good countries. Brown snakes (second most venomous land snake in the world) are very common and I have seen several this year. But I will leave you with a picture that I took yesterday of the wildlife of Australia:

I just want to pipe up here and say that I've never even seen a gun in person much less owned one, I don't have any close friends or family that own guns, and I've lived in the USA my whole life.

ETA: OK, since I've seen police officers with holsters on their belts I suppose technically I've seen a gun. But that's it.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 01:28:28 PM by lizzie »

Schaefer Light

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1328
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #266 on: February 27, 2015, 01:37:31 PM »
US is good for many things, but it's not exactly blessed with a good climate either. There are only handful of places in continental US with a pleasant climate. Top of the list is probably Southern coastal California. After that I'm not even sure. Perhaps some areas higher up in the mountains in Colorado (never been there, though). Everywhere else is either too cold in winter, too rainy in winter or too hot in summer.
There aren't many places in the world that don't have at least one "bad" season.  Personally, I think the US has a lot of places that enjoy nice weather most of the time.

deborah

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 15960
  • Age: 14
  • Location: Australia or another awesome area
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #267 on: February 27, 2015, 04:28:30 PM »

That sea lion is clearly plotting a murder...
Yes, he has a gun under each flipper. And if the fishermen cleaning fish don't throw him more they had better watch out!

I'm not sure whether the sea lion or the pelicans would be more dangerous.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 04:30:01 PM by deborah »

scottish

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2716
  • Location: Ottawa
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #268 on: February 27, 2015, 08:53:13 PM »
Darn, that's a good picture.     Did you really just happen upon that scene and take that picture Deborah?

You can also get pictures of sea lions in Canada, but you have to kayak way up the west coast to find them.

I think the best countries have to have sea lions.   Preferably unarmed sea lions.


« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 08:54:49 PM by scottishstash »

deborah

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 15960
  • Age: 14
  • Location: Australia or another awesome area
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #269 on: February 27, 2015, 09:07:28 PM »
Darn, that's a good picture.     Did you really just happen upon that scene and take that picture Deborah?

You can also get pictures of sea lions in Canada, but you have to kayak way up the west coast to find them.

I think the best countries have to have sea lions.   Preferably unarmed sea lions.



Thanks for that! Yes I did just happen on it. Yesterday I went to Mallacoota for lunch on my way home from Lakes Entrance, went to the wharf and there it was - I took a couple of other pictures there but that is the only one of the sea lion - see http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/post-fire/post-fire-picture-thread/msg571361/#msg571361
« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 09:16:31 PM by deborah »

Kriegsspiel

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 962
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #270 on: February 27, 2015, 09:30:17 PM »
Well, according to the 2015 Global Retirement Index the USA is 19th - Switzerland, Norway, Australia. See http://ngam.natixis.com/global/1422746034925/Global+Retirement+Index+Report - other places mentioned here also rank above the USA - NZ is 10th and Canada is 12th.

Who wants to live in a place where people are so afraid of one another that mothers carry guns in their purses to shopping centres?

Again, Deborah? Again?

We get it.  Australia is a solid nation with a lot to be proud of. 

The "mommies with guns" trope is both trite and a wild misrepresentation of what the US is all about.  That's like me saying Australia blows because every member of the animal kingdom in Australia is trying to kill you.  The dingo ate your argument.
No, I really think the mommies with guns argument IS what the US is about - several people have commented in this thread making their point that FREEDOM = GUNS (including the post IMMEDIATELY before yours)- and as I have stated before there are loads of good countries. Brown snakes (second most venomous land snake in the world) are very common and I have seen several this year. But I will leave you with a picture that I took yesterday of the wildlife of Australia:

Seal-Rick-James wants to ingest that fucking bird.

late_savings_bloomer

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #271 on: February 24, 2022, 08:38:32 AM »

Not really.  Might have been true 80 years ago, but sure as Hell isn't true now.  We are losing our freedoms at a rapid pace, and, like the frog that sits quietly in the kettle as the water heats up, most Americans are blissfully unaware of it.

Though it started before 9-11, that incident, in particular, has led to a MASSIVE reduction in individual rights in the USA, and turned the USA into much more of a police state.

The security/police state favored by Republicans, and the anti-capitalism attitude of the Dems have the USA becoming ever less free.
Less freedom? In what way, and as compared to whom?

Remember that warrantless wiretapping, indefinite detention and constant surveillance are not exclusive to America. Furthermore, and I hate to burst your bubble here, these things all existed in America a long time prior to 9/11. All the Patriot Act did was codify practices already utilized in the War on Drugs and repurpose them to combat terrorism.

The perception that you are now "less free" is a result of opposition to those practices, largely politically driven and (as Obama's practices have shown) insincere, arising in the run-up to the 2004 presidential election.

In short, them good old pre-9/11 days you are pining for never existed. I agree that there is injustice in that, and certainly ways for us to improve in this regard, but so it goes with the rest of the world. We are tied with some, but vastly superior to many thanks to the controls and accountability that we do have in place.

However, our nearly absolute freedom of speech is unique in the world, where either personal speech (hate speech) or political speech is often restricted. These rights continue to expand, as campaign finance laws that restrict speech continue to be knocked down.

Likewise, our right to personal defense continues to expand. In the last 25 years, the right to carry a firearm for your own personal protection has gone from novel and rare to nearly universal in this country. Even prior to this, we were and are one of the few nations that allows it's citizenry to own many types of firearms, and to employ lethal force in defense of one's body and property.

Finally, in regards to our economic freedom ranking, we are largely (almost exclusively) hampered by our excessive corporate tax rate. I agree that this is an issue. However, on a personal level, the picture looks much better. Personal tax rates, and our rock bottom tax rate on capital gains (one of the main reasons ER is so easy in America) speak in our favor. Remember also that investing in tax deferred accounts is severely limited in many parts of the world- to the point where many force you to buy annuities or some other such shit. Here our freedom to invest in equities and reap the benefits of that investment are unparalleled.


Quote
Yup, we spend RIDICULOUS amounts on our military.  MORE THAN THE REST OF THE WORLD COMBINED!  That, my friend, is insane.  Who the Hell are we so afraid of?
I'm surprised you have to even ask that question. Here goes:


  • China attacking Taiwan, Vietnam, Thailand, Japan and eventually threatening Australia.
  • North Korea attacking South Korea, triggering a counterattack that causes the above to start occurring much sooner.
  • Russia attempting to annex Estonia, Ukraine, Georgia and eventually Poland, the last forcing the EU to declare war.
  • War between Israel and Iran.

Those are just the four big ones. That isn't even counting the little things like the Philippines melting down, allowing communist extremists to take power in the north and Islamic extremists to take power in the south.

None of them are presently likely, precisely because our military is present or implied to respond to each situation.

WWIII is a very real possibility. It can happen. It doesn't happen because half the world is scared of us, and the other half is allied with us (and uses our heavy defense spending to cut their own- see: Canada.)

Quote
The downside?  ITS EXPENSIVE!  Our military is a HUGE DRAIN on the USA.  It's a huge part of our government debt.  It hurts our economy.  Yes, we still have the largest economy (though not on a per capita basis).  Keep blowing Trillions on the military, and that won't be the case for a whole lot longer.
Yes, it's quite expensive to keep the world from killing it's self. WWIII is not an acceptable alternative... and I fail to see how any of this takes away from the idea that we are the best. The fact that we have assumed this burden, voluntarily, is to our credit imo.

The point about Ukraine has been activated. Let's see what the US will do now.

EscapeVelocity2020

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4815
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Houston
    • EscapeVelocity2020
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #272 on: February 24, 2022, 09:20:33 AM »
Holy necropost Batman!

Villanelle

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6653
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #273 on: February 25, 2022, 12:19:21 PM »
It seems to me that many people who say this haven't spent much (or any) time outside the US.  I've lived abroad (in 2 countries, Europe and Asia) for about 10 years.  I've also traveled to >40 countries, and in those travels gotten at least some sense of what they have to offer and the ethos of the people.

I think the reality of "best country in the world" is much more like dating.  The best man in the world for me would be a terrible fit for someone else.  That's not a judgement on either the man or the someone else.  My dear friends have spouses who are amazing men and great partners for them. Most of those men wouldn't have made it past maybe 5 dates (or fewer) with me.  Not because they aren't good men, but because they aren't the right fit for me.

The best country for me to live in will be similarly different than the best country for them or anyone else.  On thing the US has going for it that many others don't is variety.  If what you are looking for isn't found in rural Oklahoma, you can get a *vastly* different experience in Maine or SoCal.  So the chances of finding at least a decent fit are better than they are in places that are a bit more homogeneous.  of course that also means that even if you find a nearly perfect in the US, you will still be tied in politics and policy to people whose perfect fit is those other places.

I also think the US gets picked on a lot (and often for good reason) and it makes people defensive.  Like, I can say my relative is annoying, but if you say it, it makes me defensive. 

jpdx

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 760
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #274 on: February 25, 2022, 09:33:03 PM »
What's a "best country?"

marty998

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7372
  • Location: Sydney, Oz
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #275 on: February 26, 2022, 12:19:27 AM »
What's a "best country?"

One where I can critique the faults of the country I reside in without fear of being "disappeared".


Ron Scott

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1126
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #276 on: February 26, 2022, 05:59:11 AM »
Think Ukraine.

Years of W-Obama-Trump-Biden have undercut the West’s resolve and weakened the US position in the world. GOP-Dem Duopoly is shitting the bed in the 21st century…and there’s no end in sight.

And what are we focusing on? Half the country thinks Trump is Jesus and the other half wants to lock him up. Russia and China are laughing so hard they can’t breathe.

Beam me up Scotty, there’s no intelligent life down here…


JoePublic3.14

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 257
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #277 on: February 26, 2022, 06:15:29 AM »
Holy necropost Batman!

Opinion posts are timeless!

wageslave23

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1752
  • Location: Midwest
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #278 on: February 26, 2022, 08:07:41 AM »
It seems to me that many people who say this haven't spent much (or any) time outside the US.  I've lived abroad (in 2 countries, Europe and Asia) for about 10 years.  I've also traveled to >40 countries, and in those travels gotten at least some sense of what they have to offer and the ethos of the people.

I think the reality of "best country in the world" is much more like dating.  The best man in the world for me would be a terrible fit for someone else.  That's not a judgement on either the man or the someone else.  My dear friends have spouses who are amazing men and great partners for them. Most of those men wouldn't have made it past maybe 5 dates (or fewer) with me.  Not because they aren't good men, but because they aren't the right fit for me.

The best country for me to live in will be similarly different than the best country for them or anyone else.  On thing the US has going for it that many others don't is variety.  If what you are looking for isn't found in rural Oklahoma, you can get a *vastly* different experience in Maine or SoCal.  So the chances of finding at least a decent fit are better than they are in places that are a bit more homogeneous.  of course that also means that even if you find a nearly perfect in the US, you will still be tied in politics and policy to people whose perfect fit is those other places.

I also think the US gets picked on a lot (and often for good reason) and it makes people defensive.  Like, I can say my relative is annoying, but if you say it, it makes me defensive.

I think you are right. It's very subjective. The US is a free country, anyone living here can live wherever they want. So it's logical to think anyone living there thinks it's the best country or else they would move to the country they believe is better.

Villanelle

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6653
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #279 on: February 26, 2022, 10:47:40 AM »
It seems to me that many people who say this haven't spent much (or any) time outside the US.  I've lived abroad (in 2 countries, Europe and Asia) for about 10 years.  I've also traveled to >40 countries, and in those travels gotten at least some sense of what they have to offer and the ethos of the people.

I think the reality of "best country in the world" is much more like dating.  The best man in the world for me would be a terrible fit for someone else.  That's not a judgement on either the man or the someone else.  My dear friends have spouses who are amazing men and great partners for them. Most of those men wouldn't have made it past maybe 5 dates (or fewer) with me.  Not because they aren't good men, but because they aren't the right fit for me.

The best country for me to live in will be similarly different than the best country for them or anyone else.  On thing the US has going for it that many others don't is variety.  If what you are looking for isn't found in rural Oklahoma, you can get a *vastly* different experience in Maine or SoCal.  So the chances of finding at least a decent fit are better than they are in places that are a bit more homogeneous.  of course that also means that even if you find a nearly perfect in the US, you will still be tied in politics and policy to people whose perfect fit is those other places.

I also think the US gets picked on a lot (and often for good reason) and it makes people defensive.  Like, I can say my relative is annoying, but if you say it, it makes me defensive.

I think you are right. It's very subjective. The US is a free country, anyone living here can live wherever they want. So it's logical to think anyone living there thinks it's the best country or else they would move to the country they believe is better.
[/b]

Not quite.  Moving to another country is actually quite difficult (and often expensive), especially if one is still in their working years.  And that is especially true if you want to be able to select *which* country you go to.  I could leave the US now and live somewhere else (DH's job aside), but I couldn't go to anywhere in Europe, among others, without a lot of work.

  I live in the US and certainly don't think it's the best country (either overall, or even maybe just for me personally).

wageslave23

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1752
  • Location: Midwest
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #280 on: February 26, 2022, 11:51:45 AM »
It seems to me that many people who say this haven't spent much (or any) time outside the US.  I've lived abroad (in 2 countries, Europe and Asia) for about 10 years.  I've also traveled to >40 countries, and in those travels gotten at least some sense of what they have to offer and the ethos of the people.

I think the reality of "best country in the world" is much more like dating.  The best man in the world for me would be a terrible fit for someone else.  That's not a judgement on either the man or the someone else.  My dear friends have spouses who are amazing men and great partners for them. Most of those men wouldn't have made it past maybe 5 dates (or fewer) with me.  Not because they aren't good men, but because they aren't the right fit for me.

The best country for me to live in will be similarly different than the best country for them or anyone else.  On thing the US has going for it that many others don't is variety.  If what you are looking for isn't found in rural Oklahoma, you can get a *vastly* different experience in Maine or SoCal.  So the chances of finding at least a decent fit are better than they are in places that are a bit more homogeneous.  of course that also means that even if you find a nearly perfect in the US, you will still be tied in politics and policy to people whose perfect fit is those other places.

I also think the US gets picked on a lot (and often for good reason) and it makes people defensive.  Like, I can say my relative is annoying, but if you say it, it makes me defensive.

I think you are right. It's very subjective. The US is a free country, anyone living here can live wherever they want. So it's logical to think anyone living there thinks it's the best country or else they would move to the country they believe is better.
[/b]

Not quite.  Moving to another country is actually quite difficult (and often expensive), especially if one is still in their working years.  And that is especially true if you want to be able to select *which* country you go to.  I could leave the US now and live somewhere else (DH's job aside), but I couldn't go to anywhere in Europe, among others, without a lot of work.

  I live in the US and certainly don't think it's the best country (either overall, or even maybe just for me personally).

What is so hard about moving to a country in Europe? People do it all the time. Job availability is a big part of what makes a country "best".  You must not think those other countries are that much better if moving to one of them is too big of a hassle.

Villanelle

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6653
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #281 on: February 26, 2022, 12:25:09 PM »
It seems to me that many people who say this haven't spent much (or any) time outside the US.  I've lived abroad (in 2 countries, Europe and Asia) for about 10 years.  I've also traveled to >40 countries, and in those travels gotten at least some sense of what they have to offer and the ethos of the people.

I think the reality of "best country in the world" is much more like dating.  The best man in the world for me would be a terrible fit for someone else.  That's not a judgement on either the man or the someone else.  My dear friends have spouses who are amazing men and great partners for them. Most of those men wouldn't have made it past maybe 5 dates (or fewer) with me.  Not because they aren't good men, but because they aren't the right fit for me.

The best country for me to live in will be similarly different than the best country for them or anyone else.  On thing the US has going for it that many others don't is variety.  If what you are looking for isn't found in rural Oklahoma, you can get a *vastly* different experience in Maine or SoCal.  So the chances of finding at least a decent fit are better than they are in places that are a bit more homogeneous.  of course that also means that even if you find a nearly perfect in the US, you will still be tied in politics and policy to people whose perfect fit is those other places.

I also think the US gets picked on a lot (and often for good reason) and it makes people defensive.  Like, I can say my relative is annoying, but if you say it, it makes me defensive.

I think you are right. It's very subjective. The US is a free country, anyone living here can live wherever they want. So it's logical to think anyone living there thinks it's the best country or else they would move to the country they believe is better.
[/b]

Not quite.  Moving to another country is actually quite difficult (and often expensive), especially if one is still in their working years.  And that is especially true if you want to be able to select *which* country you go to.  I could leave the US now and live somewhere else (DH's job aside), but I couldn't go to anywhere in Europe, among others, without a lot of work.

  I live in the US and certainly don't think it's the best country (either overall, or even maybe just for me personally).

What is so hard about moving to a country in Europe? People do it all the time. Job availability is a big part of what makes a country "best".  You must not think those other countries are that much better if moving to one of them is too big of a hassle.

People do it all the time.  *IF* they are able to find a comparable job.  Or after spending many months (and some expense) going through the process of getting a visa not tied to work. 

Also, I have lived in other countries.  lol  And I'd love to hear your explanation about how, in my specific life, I could do that without too big a hassle.  Point 1: spouse is still employed.  Point 2: by the US military, who tells him where to go, when.  And while he's asked to go to Europe, that has only happened once in two decades.    But yes, please tell me how hassle-free, quick, and easy it would be for us to move to Scotland.  Because if that is the case, I'll do it right now. 


PDXTabs

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5160
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Vancouver, WA, USA
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #282 on: February 26, 2022, 12:45:09 PM »
What is so hard about moving to a country in Europe? People do it all the time. Job availability is a big part of what makes a country "best".  You must not think those other countries are that much better if moving to one of them is too big of a hassle.

I suggest you go read about what it takes to move to Iceland as one example. Without an EU/EEA passport or a very in-demand job it is basically impossible.

mistymoney

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2417
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #283 on: February 27, 2022, 02:35:03 PM »
How many countries were founded by a group of people with the ideals of our founding fathers? 

You mean slave-owning hypocrites? Who defined their rights and privledges while trampling those of others?

Likely a lot.

ROF Expat

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 384
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #284 on: February 28, 2022, 12:02:35 AM »
I'm going to take this thread back to the original post: 

why do so many Americans feel that it is normal/acceptable/patriotic/intelligent to say, "The United States is the best country in the world."?

I've lived in 14 countries and visited another 30 or so, so I think I can make some comparisons.  I definitely agree that I can only talk about "the best for me."  Most of my non-US friends view the "freedom to bear arms" so valued by many of my American friends as being vastly outweighed by the existence of school shootings.  And I've found that most of my friends with similar jobs live fairly similar lives (Yes, my Scandinavian friends pay higher taxes, but they don't have to save much for retirement or health care or University education for their kids).  At the end of the day, the details our different, but our standards  of living are similar. 

I try not to be jingoistic, but I do feel that there is something special about the USA, my home country.  This thread has given me the incentive to think about why that is.   I can't speak for other people, but here's my story: 

My grandmother came to the US as a young girl.  She fled Europe because she was born into the wrong religion.  The US allowed her to immigrate when other countries would not.  To my knowledge, no members of my family in Europe survived the second world war.  In the US, life wasn't easy.  When not at school, she did piecework at home to help make ends meet.  She worked hard and saved enough to start a small business that supported  her and children.  My father benefited from decent public schools and an ROTC scholarship and ended up a FIRE multi-millionaire.  My generation has benefited tremendously from what my father and his mother did, and at this point, my financial concern is how to transfer wealth to the next generation without sapping their will to succeed. 

This story of social mobility is the "American Dream" and I think there was (and still is) a lot of it in America.  I know that America has always had flaws (and still does), but I don't think those same opportunities existed at the same level in many other places.  Is America "the best" country in the world?  Maybe not, but it has been the best for my family.  Now I feel that I owe it to America to ensure that the opportunities given to my family are extended to others, including new immigrants and previously oppressed or marginalized groups.  I worry about reports that social mobility in America is declining and I believe that providing excellent public schools for kids in poor areas might be the best investment we can make in our country's future. 
 

namasteyall

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 111
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #285 on: February 28, 2022, 06:28:10 AM »
From the net: There are lots of answers: hundreds of thousands of citizens leave the United States every year to pursue their careers, education, or, indeed, love. They also seek a lower cost of living, a better climate, or simply a fresh start by making a home for themselves in various corners of the world.
blog.hireahelper.com/2020-study-where-do-americans-who-leave-the-usa-go/
2020 Study: Where Do Americans Who Leave the USA Go? – Moving ...

I love the US and enjoy its variety, humor. creativity, national parks, etc. etc. etc.

jlcnuke

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 931
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #286 on: February 28, 2022, 08:20:48 AM »
I don't say that the US is the best country in the world.

It has, traditionally, been the best country in the world for many categories. Upward mobility availability as an American was, for a good part of our history, some of the best (if not the best) in the world. That has been dwindling to some extent over the past 2-3 decades however.

The US is, and has been for a while, the strongest military in the world. Does that make it a "Best country"? That's clearly a personal opinion and many would say spending as much as we do for a military as large as ours is a waste of money and resources that could be better spent elsewhere.

The US is a massive economic superpower in the world. That is clearly good in some ways (strong growing economy helping to make more jobs, influence elsewhere, etc.). However, as pointed out earlier, this also is influenced by having some of the worst work/life balance of any 1st world country.

Our freedom of religion was a massive draw for people to immigrate here, but a large portion of this country has taken that history and perverted it into trying to push their religious beliefs onto others here and/or discriminate against other religions over time.

I think the number 1 reason that you can find so many American's that will tell you America is the greatest country in the world is probably a complete ignorance regarding what life is like in other countries. This is getting better (about 1/3rd of Americans have a passport these days, though it was only 9% in 1989), but the majority of American's simply have no actual exposure to other countries and a significant portion of those that do have international travel experience have only traveled for work or on a cruise (experiences where many get little or no exposure to what things are really like living in another country).

OzzieandHarriet

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1180
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #287 on: February 28, 2022, 08:47:52 AM »
And to think, this thread was started before the MAGA madness.

Just Joe

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6720
  • Location: In the middle....
  • Teach me something.
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #288 on: March 01, 2022, 12:01:06 PM »
I do think America is a great country, but it could learn a few things from others which I think would make it even greater.

Just my two pence :)

And because of this myth that we are the greatest country in history we overlook very good ideas already in practice around the globe that could make our lives better here. But some of us - the loudest perhaps - are too arrogant to notice.

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20742
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #289 on: March 01, 2022, 06:50:54 PM »
I do think America is a great country, but it could learn a few things from others which I think would make it even greater.

Just my two pence :)

And because of this myth that we are the greatest country in history we overlook very good ideas already in practice around the globe that could make our lives better here. But some of us - the loudest perhaps - are too arrogant to notice.

Exactly.  I think Canada has a lot going for it, and then I read about other places doing things differently and realise that we have lots of room for improvement  And we don't even have to think up something brand new, other countries have worked out the start-up issues.

mathlete

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2070
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #290 on: March 02, 2022, 01:52:23 PM »
Largest GDP. High per-capita GDP. Heavily diversified economy. Very innovative (produces a ton of patents and intellectual property). High HDI. A liberal democracy (though I'm a little nervous on that one right now). Excellent national parks.

markbrynn

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 162
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #291 on: March 03, 2022, 04:19:27 AM »
I am highly amused that the post I started 7 years ago has been given new life.

For what it's worth, my intent was never to ask people to explain why the US is or isn't the best country. The real question was about why would anybody talk about "best countries" in the first place? There is clearly no right answer. Even worse, it leads to confrontation or closed conversations rather than sharing and learning. So, any ideas why do people do it (and they clearly do, just read the old posts in this thread*)?

Disclaimer - I'm not arguing against any of the many things the US does well. I'm not even looking to point out the things the US doesn't do as well. I just want to know why we can't focus on what's nice/interesting/cool/done-well about all countries and learn from each other. [And yes, I'm interested in the psychology of people who get defensive if some aspect of their country is criticized. Especially people who are intelligent/well-educated enough that they should be able to detach a discussion about their country from their own feeling of self-worth. If you don't remember from 7 years ago, I have family members who are naturalized US citizens and exhibit some of these behaviours.]

*Apparently some Australians also like to toss their hat in the ring for best country.

life_travel

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 239
  • Location: Australia
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #292 on: March 03, 2022, 06:38:48 PM »
I am in Australia but not FROM Australia, so I can see that Australia has what people here attributed to positives in the US ( beautiful national parks, wildlife, different climates, democracy, good quality of living ) but without guns.
Just for that reason alone ( mass shootings) US can never be "the best" country.

Is Australia the best? Honestly it's a big call but it's pretty damn close :)

But to answer your question I will never call any ONE country THE BEST , because there are positives and negatives in every good country , and only once you travel ( and live) in more than one , you realise that.

GreenSheep

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1072
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #293 on: March 04, 2022, 05:05:53 AM »
I am highly amused that the post I started 7 years ago has been given new life.

For what it's worth, my intent was never to ask people to explain why the US is or isn't the best country. The real question was about why would anybody talk about "best countries" in the first place? There is clearly no right answer. Even worse, it leads to confrontation or closed conversations rather than sharing and learning. So, any ideas why do people do it (and they clearly do, just read the old posts in this thread*)?

Disclaimer - I'm not arguing against any of the many things the US does well. I'm not even looking to point out the things the US doesn't do as well. I just want to know why we can't focus on what's nice/interesting/cool/done-well about all countries and learn from each other. [And yes, I'm interested in the psychology of people who get defensive if some aspect of their country is criticized. Especially people who are intelligent/well-educated enough that they should be able to detach a discussion about their country from their own feeling of self-worth. If you don't remember from 7 years ago, I have family members who are naturalized US citizens and exhibit some of these behaviours.]

*Apparently some Australians also like to toss their hat in the ring for best country.

Canadians, surprisingly, do it too. We ran into some in Scotland a few years ago. I mentioned that we were from, at the time, the state of Washington, and I said it was "almost Canada." They took that to mean that I wished I lived in Canada and started boasting about their country and insulting mine. My comment had just been meant as a friendly, "Hey, we're neighbors!" kind of thing. (I should add that I don't think most Canadians are like this, of course. I've met many, many very kind Canadians.)

On the other hand, people in other countries are usually surprised to find out that I'm from the US. They say I'm not as loud or boastful (or fat!) as they expected. I suspect there are a lot of Americans flying under the radar like me, and it's just that people don't notice us as much as the obnoxious ones, so the stereotype continues.

I think people are generally competitive, and they'll compete over the most ridiculous things. I don't really understand it, because I don't have a competitive bone in my body, but of course we see this with sports teams, politics, religion, diet, parenting, and apparently countries. There was even a study done that's fuzzy in my memory, but it had something to do with putting groups of kids in red shirts or blue shirts and watching how quickly they became nice to the kids in their own shirt color and mean to the ones in the other color. Humans are tribal, I guess.

markbrynn

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 162
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #294 on: March 05, 2022, 01:48:56 AM »
Quote
Canadians, surprisingly, do it too. We ran into some in Scotland a few years ago. I mentioned that we were from, at the time, the state of Washington, and I said it was "almost Canada." They took that to mean that I wished I lived in Canada and started boasting about their country and insulting mine. My comment had just been meant as a friendly, "Hey, we're neighbors!" kind of thing. (I should add that I don't think most Canadians are like this, of course. I've met many, many very kind Canadians.)

On the other hand, people in other countries are usually surprised to find out that I'm from the US. They say I'm not as loud or boastful (or fat!) as they expected. I suspect there are a lot of Americans flying under the radar like me, and it's just that people don't notice us as much as the obnoxious ones, so the stereotype continues.

I think people are generally competitive, and they'll compete over the most ridiculous things. I don't really understand it, because I don't have a competitive bone in my body, but of course we see this with sports teams, politics, religion, diet, parenting, and apparently countries. There was even a study done that's fuzzy in my memory, but it had something to do with putting groups of kids in red shirts or blue shirts and watching how quickly they became nice to the kids in their own shirt color and mean to the ones in the other color. Humans are tribal, I guess.

Really excellent, thoughtful response GreenSheep. The competitive/tribal nature is probably a big part of it. It's quite hard to relate to if you don't have it yourself. I'm a reasonably big sports fan, but I've never understood the mentality of wanting your team to win at all costs (e.g. even if they play in a very boring, negative style). I watch sports for entertainment, not merely to have my team win.

Also agree with your comment about the more reasonable people flying under the radar. It's the same in this thread. There are a number of Americans who posted that they think getting competitive over "best country" is nonsense, but they don't stand out as much as the series of posts "arguing" over US vs. Australia. [side note - Confirmation Bias is also strong. Whenever people posted in this thread about all the ways America is the best, it confirmed my experience. Even though plenty of people didn't argue that at all.]

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20742
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #295 on: March 05, 2022, 08:02:42 AM »
Canadians mostly live up to their reputation for "niceness" when travelling abroad.  But not totally.  I got the story from a tour operator in New Zealand of a wealthy Canadian who did the typical "threw his  weight and money around (yes definitely a man from the story) to the discomfort of everyone else, including the people travelling with him.  But this was the only one, he said the rest of the Canadians he has met have been fine.  And of course, typical Canadian that I am, I was apologizing for the bad behaviour of my countryman.   ;-(

As we saw from our recent freedumb convoy, there are lots of Canadians who are nice to others like them, but are not nice at all to those who they perceive as different/disagree with them.  So many people were posting/saying it made them ashamed to be Canadian.  So Canada is definitely not perfect, definitely has lots of issues.

Villanelle

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6653
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #296 on: March 05, 2022, 02:24:49 PM »
I mentioned this earlier, but I also think the US is sort of a popular (and in some ways, easy, thanks to our nonsense and our openness about our nonsense) target.  And it is like someone insulting a family member.  You may know that Uncle Bob is arrogant and pushy and sometimes obnoxious.  But when someone else says it, you still feel defensive.  So when people pick on the USA, it can bring out the, "fuck no!  We rock!" responses, even from people who otherwise acknowledge the country's shortcomings.

I also think the point about the assholes standing out (and the resulting confirmation bias among those who already think Americans are load and arrogant and Whatever) is a good one.  If I'm just quietly and respectfully sitting in the corner, no one says, "Oh look, an American who is respectful and well-behaved."  They have no idea I'm an American. 

I certainly don't think I'm a worldly expert, but I can see the good things, and the negative things about other places I lived.  Germans felt sort of cold and unfriendly initially (though they were not, and that was just my perception due to my US sensibilities).  If you smiled at them on the street, they looked at you like they were addled.  There was no "polite friendliness".  In Japan, I struggled with the "can't say no" vibe, which Japanese friends openly admitted.  It was even mentioned in our cultural indoc class, taught by Japanese people.  Basically, they almost never say no.  If you issue an invite, it is "we will see what happens" even if they know it is absolutely "no". 

And yet the Japanese are some of the most kind, thoughtful, honest people.  I adore the connections I was fortunate enough to make, and respect so many things about them.  (While also seeing the things I would struggle with if I were to move to Japan permanently.)  And the Germans were warm and inviting in their own way, just not on a surface level.  Good, and bad.  Like everywhere.  But if someone starts harping on how Americans are Bad Thing and Other Bad Thing, I do have the instinct to point out the good (and only the good) because the it feels like a balancing of their perspective. 

talltexan

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5344
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #297 on: March 08, 2022, 06:57:54 AM »
I'm no fan of Trump (I have started two discussion threads in which people can vent about the outrages attributed to him), but have you seen the clowns some of these other countries are choosing to lead them? I think those of us who are Americans and are fed up with the crazy people all around us fantasize that other countries don't have people who are crazy, but that's just because we haven't lived there long enough to realize they're there, too.

Scandium

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2827
  • Location: EastCoast
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #298 on: March 08, 2022, 08:36:07 AM »
I do think America is a great country, but it could learn a few things from others which I think would make it even greater.

Just my two pence :)

And because of this myth that we are the greatest country in history we overlook very good ideas already in practice around the globe that could make our lives better here. But some of us - the loudest perhaps - are too arrogant to notice.

That's a feature, not a bug. Push the "USA is best/perfect, everywhere else sucks (especially their healthcare!!) don't change anything!" propaganda to maintain the power structure that keep the current capitalist elite on top, and let them keep their money.

Just Joe

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6720
  • Location: In the middle....
  • Teach me something.
Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #299 on: March 08, 2022, 02:18:13 PM »
Could this be part of this push for defunding public education in favor of conservative approved private schools? Is that the next big profit center i.e. basically outsourcing education to non-gov't corporations?

And/or is that part of a push to shape the message the children hear so they can reinforce conservative messages and themes to bolster their political chances in the future?

I feel certain this is all about money and power but I don't understand all the ways it could benefit conservative politics and profits. What is the long game?

The last time conservatives were all pro-private schools (often called academies) here in the south, they were usually quasi-religious and often in response to school integration. Still part of that too?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segregation_academy

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!