Author Topic: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?  (Read 83487 times)

aspiringnomad

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Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #300 on: March 30, 2022, 05:57:44 PM »
I'm no fan of Trump (I have started two discussion threads in which people can vent about the outrages attributed to him), but have you seen the clowns some of these other countries are choosing to lead them? I think those of us who are Americans and are fed up with the crazy people all around us fantasize that other countries don't have people who are crazy, but that's just because we haven't lived there long enough to realize they're there, too.

Not really been my experience residing in Portugal or NZ. I mean sure there are crazies everywhere, but the US political system is decaying incredibly fast and the voices of the many crazies residing there have been ascendant at least politically. Probably has something to do with unchecked money in politics, gerrymandering, and widespread cultural malaise but American democracy is really well and truly flailing right now.

But for sure, if you're educated, there are few better places to earn a living than in the US in terms of opportunity or salary. Just gotta stomach the politics.

js82

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Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #301 on: March 30, 2022, 10:03:58 PM »
Generally it's exposure to nationalist propaganda throughout elementary education (our history books are written from a point of view that casts us as the heroes of nearly every conflict we've been involved with) and a lack of exposure to other ways of life (our news outlets do a lot of reporting about other first world countries that state as fact subjective opinions like a certain form of government is inferior, etc.).  Basically, it's opinions stated as fact throughout an entire lifetime which leads to a general, inarticulable feeling of superiority.

Pretty much this.

Then again, claiming to be the "best" without defining the criteria by which you're evaluating what makes a country "good/better/best" is downright silly.

Don't get me wrong, as an American I feel pretty fortunate to live here - but at the same time, while we're very good at some things (Technology/Innovation), we're mediocre to outright poor at others (health care, general selfishness of our society).  Our society would benefit from being more outward-looking and learning from what other nations/cultures do well, rather than assuming that we're implicitly the best at everything.

Undecided

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Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #302 on: April 05, 2022, 03:22:04 PM »
How many countries were founded by a group of people with the ideals of our founding fathers?  If not for the US, what would Europe have looked like from the mid-1940s on?  How many countries can come close to inventing the things that have been invented here?  China may have 10x as many people, but they don't have a fraction of the innovation we have here.  In how many countries is obesity the biggest health problem?  Do most countries have people willing to risk their lives walking across the desert or rafting in shark-infested waters to enter them?  In how many countries do people who are considered poor own TVs, computers, iPhones, refrigerators, and microwaves?

I suspect that in no other country does as great a percentage of the population so firmly believe that the metrics in which that country excels are the sole factors that should be considered in determining which country is best.

I'm American, although I don't live there (I'm also a citizen of the country in which I live; we don't believe we're the best, although there are some particular qualities of which we're proud).

Missy B

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Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #303 on: April 05, 2022, 08:57:19 PM »
How many countries were founded by a group of people with the ideals of our founding fathers?  If not for the US, what would Europe have looked like from the mid-1940s on?  How many countries can come close to inventing the things that have been invented here?  China may have 10x as many people, but they don't have a fraction of the innovation we have here.  In how many countries is obesity the biggest health problem?  Do most countries have people willing to risk their lives walking across the desert or rafting in shark-infested waters to enter them?  In how many countries do people who are considered poor own TVs, computers, iPhones, refrigerators, and microwaves?

I suspect that in no other country does as great a percentage of the population so firmly believe that the metrics in which that country excels are the sole factors that should be considered in determining which country is best.

This.  Everytime I hear someone go one about how their country is the best, I assume the impulse is from the insecurity they feel, knowing the ways in which their country is failing.


talltexan

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Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #304 on: April 19, 2022, 06:43:20 AM »
wait...so obesity being the biggest health problem is desirable? That's the sign of a country succeeding?

FWIW, US is not the winner when it comes to life expectancy, and we're falling farther behind.

DadJokes

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Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #305 on: April 19, 2022, 09:51:34 AM »
I never understood owing loyalty and allegiance to a place just because you were born there. I only owed allegiance to the US for the eight years I was under contract to do so in the military. Prior to and after that, my only allegiance has been to my loved ones.

I still think that opportunity is greater in the US than anywhere else in the world if you are smarter than average and willing to work hard. Many other developed countries seem to do more for the less fortunate of society. How much of what those countries do could the US do without giving up the enormous upside we have? I don't know, but FIRE doesn't appear to be as easy to accomplish in those countries as it does in the US, so the US is the best country in the world for me right now. It may not be in the future.

However, my overseas experience is limited to Afghanistan, so I don't have a lot to compare the US to other than what I see on the internet.

Also, it's too damn cold up north for Canada to be the best country. So take that ya canuckleheads.

Kris

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Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #306 on: April 19, 2022, 10:12:55 AM »
Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes:

"There are three kinds of patriots, two bad, one good. The bad ones are the uncritical lovers and the loveless critics. Good patriots carry on a lover's quarrel with their country."

Pastor/activist William Sloane Coffin

RetiredAt63

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Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #307 on: April 19, 2022, 11:41:49 AM »
I never understood owing loyalty and allegiance to a place just because you were born there. I only owed allegiance to the US for the eight years I was under contract to do so in the military. Prior to and after that, my only allegiance has been to my loved ones.

I still think that opportunity is greater in the US than anywhere else in the world if you are smarter than average and willing to work hard. Many other developed countries seem to do more for the less fortunate of society. How much of what those countries do could the US do without giving up the enormous upside we have? I don't know, but FIRE doesn't appear to be as easy to accomplish in those countries as it does in the US, so the US is the best country in the world for me right now. It may not be in the future.

However, my overseas experience is limited to Afghanistan, so I don't have a lot to compare the US to other than what I see on the internet.

Also, it's too damn cold up north for Canada to be the best country. So take that ya canuckleheads.

We know we aren't the best country.  We just don't think our nearest neighbours are either.

Weatherwise, well there is coastal BC.    ;-)

Or one could take the view that dealing with winter is no worse than dealing with hurricanes, and having seasons change helps make life interesting.

 Canadian winter's also helps the tourist industry in Florida, the Caribbean and Hawaii.    ;-)

Goatee Joe

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Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #308 on: May 07, 2022, 11:28:17 AM »
I'm no fan of Trump (I have started two discussion threads in which people can vent about the outrages attributed to him), but have you seen the clowns some of these other countries are choosing to lead them? I think those of us who are Americans and are fed up with the crazy people all around us fantasize that other countries don't have people who are crazy, but that's just because we haven't lived there long enough to realize they're there, too.

Not really been my experience residing in Portugal or NZ. I mean sure there are crazies everywhere, but the US political system is decaying incredibly fast and the voices of the many crazies residing there have been ascendant at least politically. Probably has something to do with unchecked money in politics, gerrymandering, and widespread cultural malaise but American democracy is really well and truly flailing right now.

But for sure, if you're educated, there are few better places to earn a living than in the US in terms of opportunity or salary. Just gotta stomach the politics.

Same here.  I'm American but live outside the U.S. and haven't had the same sense of political dread in my current country of residence.  Watching it from afar (and visiting on occasion), it's obvious the American political landscape is becoming increasingly overtaken by nutty extremists.  Folks who used to be on the very outer fringes of the far left and far right are now becoming mainstream, for the exact reasons cited above:  totally rotten, corrupt and limitless funding by special interests, shenanigans with voting districts and voting laws, polarization into "right" and "left" camps, and (perhaps most importantly) an increasingly ill-educated, apathetic populace who are prone to resorting to violence to prove their points.  The U.S. has some major issues to work on, clearly.  Hopefully it will get sorted out, but I'm pessimistic in the short term.

shureShote

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Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #309 on: May 07, 2022, 07:36:55 PM »

Weatherwise, well there is coastal BC.    ;-)


I’ve never understood that with everything else we (USA) have done since forming, that we didn’t somehow sneak our way into taking that entire region, by hook or by crook (esp the crook). I mean, I’ve lived in a couple areas pretty close to Canada, and think they’d be better under Canadian rule, and clearly we could do better with that coastal area.

lutorm

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Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #310 on: May 09, 2022, 04:36:57 PM »
... FIRE doesn't appear to be as easy to accomplish in those countries as it does in the US, so the US is the best country in the world for me right now.
One could probably also argue that the need for FIRE would not be as large in a country that had better work-life balance than the US.

moof

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Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #311 on: May 09, 2022, 04:55:11 PM »
... FIRE doesn't appear to be as easy to accomplish in those countries as it does in the US, so the US is the best country in the world for me right now.
One could probably also argue that the need for FIRE would not be as large in a country that had better work-life balance than the US.
This.  A large part of my motivation to become FI had to do with truly awful job security, and an even worse safety net if you are canned.  My nightmare was getting laid off at 50-odd and being aged out of any decent jobs, and yet still a decade or more from a crappy social security check.  I then had a kid along the way and became acutely aware of the complete lack of work-life balance in the midst of widespread hustle culture, which turbo charged my motivation.

Arbitrage

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Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #312 on: May 10, 2022, 09:33:13 AM »
... FIRE doesn't appear to be as easy to accomplish in those countries as it does in the US, so the US is the best country in the world for me right now.
One could probably also argue that the need for FIRE would not be as large in a country that had better work-life balance than the US.
This.  A large part of my motivation to become FI had to do with truly awful job security, and an even worse safety net if you are canned.  My nightmare was getting laid off at 50-odd and being aged out of any decent jobs, and yet still a decade or more from a crappy social security check.  I then had a kid along the way and became acutely aware of the complete lack of work-life balance in the midst of widespread hustle culture, which turbo charged my motivation.

Compared to France, which has a 35-hour work week with no forced/unpaid overtime, laws preventing electronic nagging on off hours, and an average of 6 weeks paid vacation. 

wageslave23

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Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #313 on: May 10, 2022, 01:44:11 PM »
... FIRE doesn't appear to be as easy to accomplish in those countries as it does in the US, so the US is the best country in the world for me right now.
One could probably also argue that the need for FIRE would not be as large in a country that had better work-life balance than the US.
This.  A large part of my motivation to become FI had to do with truly awful job security, and an even worse safety net if you are canned.  My nightmare was getting laid off at 50-odd and being aged out of any decent jobs, and yet still a decade or more from a crappy social security check.  I then had a kid along the way and became acutely aware of the complete lack of work-life balance in the midst of widespread hustle culture, which turbo charged my motivation.

Compared to France, which has a 35-hour work week with no forced/unpaid overtime, laws preventing electronic nagging on off hours, and an average of 6 weeks paid vacation.

I'll take more $$.  Then decide whether that translates into coast FIRE, FIRE, self employment, etc.   That's just me though.  I want to bet on myself and reap the full risk/rewards.  Our system seems to do that the best from what I have read.

getsorted

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Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #314 on: May 10, 2022, 02:11:22 PM »
I'm American and lived in another country for three years. I'm from a region and social class that doesn't normally leave the U.S. In other words, I'm not the kind of American who typically travels abroad.

I am pursuing FI because it's the best means of security I can obtain in this country. If I had been able to remain in the country I lived in, I would have been able to pursue the career change I wanted to make at a drastically reduced cost, work for myself without fear of losing my health care benefits, and enjoyed a better work-life balance, adequate time off, and better protection against exploitation by an employer if I chose to work for someone else.

There are lots of great things about America, but I think it's highly likely that many of the reasons we don't see as many Europeans pursuing FI is because they feel their society protects them in the way that Americans hope money will do.

Now that I am back in the U.S., people often don't believe me at all when I tell them I had good treatment in a public health care system, felt the schools my son attended were a higher quality than his American schools, got six weeks of vacation time annually, and still carried a pretty comparable tax burden. Also, fresh food was actually cheaper-- they never believe that!

I understand loving your country - America is a super-cool place! But I don't understand why we're supposed to love it with some kind of toxic codependent love that never points out wrongs or looks to improve and most especially, never looks to another country of an example of how we might improve.

joemcd333

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Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #315 on: May 10, 2022, 02:24:56 PM »
How was Australia the last 2 years lol. People say America is the best because, for all its problems, we have more freedoms enumerated in the constitution than many countries, even Nordic or EU countries, even as our government continually attempts to erode them. In the UK for example, you  can be jailed for an offensive joke. Chief among the US rights is freedom of speech and that is protected by right to bear arms. Many believe that the 2nd amendment is a chief cause for the US' somewhat slower decent into socialism than other countries.

We've lived in Australia a few years now.

I think, at this point, Australia is probably better overall. We're still moving back to the US. I feel a bit guilty, because I'm worried I'm not doing the best for my kids (main reason we're going back is a bit selfish, mainly homesickness). At least we've exposed them to a different culture, and will be able to keep that door open for them.

Healthcare doesn't seem any worse, and is in many ways much better. Wife had to stay in the hospital about a month due to pregnancy complications. Private (though not guaranteed) room, three meals a day, round the clock care. Total cost for the hospital stay and the numerous tests (there were a number of ultrasounds, forget what else they did)? $0.

People seem more accepting of people's differences. You can work a white-collar job and have visible tattoos and piercings. Two examples of this: the lady who put a visa label in my wife's passport (lots of tattoos on her arms, I don't remember piercings) and midwives my wife works with (definitely tattoos, and I think piercings as long as they don't interfere with their work, but don't quote me on that). I see old ladies walking around with bright purple/red/blue/whatever the heck color hair (you can get some really cool colors when you're starting with white hair) and I smile just a bit. You can be openly gay here. Maybe that's just in the tiny section we've spent most of our time in, but we've traveled around a bit and it "seems" similar all around.

Food seems to be higher quality. Finding high-fructose corn syrup (think it's called glucose[maize], and there's a wheat version) is rare. All milk is hormone-free (as in, it's banned). In the US we had to pay a premium to get the non high-fructose corn syrup food, and the hormone-free milk (have to buy organic to get more than a "we pinky-swear not to" guarantee). Argue amongst yourselves whether these are legitimate concerns.

Shaun Micallef. He's funny (mad) as hell.

For all the good, Australia does fall far short in some categories.

High cost of living. Ouch! Have you SEEN the home prices? Not to mention electricity rates.

Seasons are reversed. Seriously, wtf is up with that? I demand you move winter to Christmastime. Pass a resolution or whatever you call it.

Vegemite. This is some kind of cruel joke, right?

DadJokes

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Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #316 on: May 10, 2022, 02:32:18 PM »
... FIRE doesn't appear to be as easy to accomplish in those countries as it does in the US, so the US is the best country in the world for me right now.
One could probably also argue that the need for FIRE would not be as large in a country that had better work-life balance than the US.

Maybe one could argue that for themself. However, not everyone works the same hours in this country.

I have fantastic work-life balance, working no more than 37.5 hours in a week. I couldn't make as much even at those hours anywhere else in the world. But any number above zero is more hours than I want to spend working for income. Once again, the US is the best country for me right now.

lutorm

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Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #317 on: May 10, 2022, 03:20:05 PM »
... People say America is the best because, for all its problems, we have more freedoms enumerated in the constitution than many countries, even Nordic or EU countries, even as our government continually attempts to erode them. In the UK for example, you  can be jailed for an offensive joke. Chief among the US rights is freedom of speech and that is protected by right to bear arms. Many believe that the 2nd amendment is a chief cause for the US' somewhat slower decent into socialism than other countries.
People like to say that the USA is the land of the free, yes. Yet, my experience moving here from Sweden is that the USA is a country with an abundance of rules (bring a beer to the beach? No can do.), overbearing policing, and a punitive justice system that seems to be content to jail and sometimes kill innocent people, mostly minorities. There may be freedoms enumerated in the constitution, but I'm not sure that those lofty ideals make a huge difference in the freedoms experienced by ordinary citizens.

As far as the 2nd amendment goes, one certainly can't fault the US with a "rapid descent into socialism", but on the other hand the "descent" into Social Democracy in Sweden was driven by democratic worker power. I'm not sure how a right to bear arms in Sweden would have done anything to change that outcome. I find it much more likely that the current system in the US is maintained by the unequal power of the wealthy to dominate the political system.

getsorted

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Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #318 on: May 10, 2022, 04:01:12 PM »
There may be freedoms enumerated in the constitution, but I'm not sure that those lofty ideals make a huge difference in the freedoms experienced by ordinary citizens.


This is a great point, and there is a lot of freedom from/freedom to conflict inherent in American life.

I had a few very shocking moments when I first moved away from the U.S., like when I met a type 1 diabetic my own age who ran her own business. In my 20s, I knew so many type 1 diabetics stuck in corporate jobs because they would not be able to manage health care costs without group insurance plans. Or when I met a seriously disabled person who was able to own her own home, because accessing health care did not mean she had to "spend down" all her assets and forbid her from accumulating more without losing that care. Or when I met parents of seriously disabled children who were able to afford to go out for dinner from time to time. I know many people my own age who had filed for medical bankruptcy before they hit age 30; I know others who will be paying off major medical emergencies -- cancer treatment, complicated childbirth, genetic diseases -- until they die.

This is because health care systems are free to profit as much as they want from the services they offer. Even if it means that hundreds of thousands of people will lose their homes to pay for care in their old age. Even if it means some people will die because their lives aren't profitable that quarter. Sometimes the "freedom to" in the U.S. is freedom to exploit others without restriction.

Freedom from government requirements isn't as meaningful if it only means some other large entity is going to step in and take everything you can possibly earn.

bmjohnson35

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Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #319 on: May 10, 2022, 06:14:17 PM »
[quote author=Goatee Joe:)

"it's obvious the American political landscape is becoming increasingly overtaken by nutty extremists.  Folks who used to be on the very outer fringes of the far left and far right are now becoming mainstream, for the exact reasons cited above:  totally rotten, corrupt and limitless funding by special interests, shenanigans with voting districts and voting laws, polarization into "right" and "left" camps, and (perhaps most importantly) an increasingly ill-educated, apathetic populace who are prone to resorting to violence to prove their points.  The U.S. has some major issues to work on, clearly.  Hopefully it will get sorted out, but I'm pessimistic in the short term."

This matches up with my perception of the US political landscape.  I was born in the US and have lived my entire life here.  I have been fortunate enough to travel a bit outside the US and I certainly wouldn't claim I live in the "best" country in the world, but I also haven't found any that I perceived as "better" during my short visits. I grew up lower middle class and was able to FIRE at 50, so I've had and continue to have an exceptionally good life. In many ways, it feels like we have lost our way in the US, both politically and socially. I hope we can turn it around.

Gremlin

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Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #320 on: May 10, 2022, 07:49:21 PM »
How was Australia the last 2 years lol. People say America is the best because, for all its problems, we have more freedoms enumerated in the constitution than many countries, even Nordic or EU countries, even as our government continually attempts to erode them. In the UK for example, you  can be jailed for an offensive joke. Chief among the US rights is freedom of speech and that is protected by right to bear arms. Many believe that the 2nd amendment is a chief cause for the US' somewhat slower decent into socialism than other countries.

We've lived in Australia a few years now.

I think, at this point, Australia is probably better overall. We're still moving back to the US. I feel a bit guilty, because I'm worried I'm not doing the best for my kids (main reason we're going back is a bit selfish, mainly homesickness). At least we've exposed them to a different culture, and will be able to keep that door open for them.

Healthcare doesn't seem any worse, and is in many ways much better. Wife had to stay in the hospital about a month due to pregnancy complications. Private (though not guaranteed) room, three meals a day, round the clock care. Total cost for the hospital stay and the numerous tests (there were a number of ultrasounds, forget what else they did)? $0.

People seem more accepting of people's differences. You can work a white-collar job and have visible tattoos and piercings. Two examples of this: the lady who put a visa label in my wife's passport (lots of tattoos on her arms, I don't remember piercings) and midwives my wife works with (definitely tattoos, and I think piercings as long as they don't interfere with their work, but don't quote me on that). I see old ladies walking around with bright purple/red/blue/whatever the heck color hair (you can get some really cool colors when you're starting with white hair) and I smile just a bit. You can be openly gay here. Maybe that's just in the tiny section we've spent most of our time in, but we've traveled around a bit and it "seems" similar all around.

Food seems to be higher quality. Finding high-fructose corn syrup (think it's called glucose[maize], and there's a wheat version) is rare. All milk is hormone-free (as in, it's banned). In the US we had to pay a premium to get the non high-fructose corn syrup food, and the hormone-free milk (have to buy organic to get more than a "we pinky-swear not to" guarantee). Argue amongst yourselves whether these are legitimate concerns.

Shaun Micallef. He's funny (mad) as hell.

For all the good, Australia does fall far short in some categories.

High cost of living. Ouch! Have you SEEN the home prices? Not to mention electricity rates.

Seasons are reversed. Seriously, wtf is up with that? I demand you move winter to Christmastime. Pass a resolution or whatever you call it.

Vegemite. This is some kind of cruel joke, right?

As an Australian, I've seen some rather... overblown... reporting, particularly from the rightwing media in the US, as to exactly how restrictive the last two years have been here in Australia.

At the height of COVID, I had the following happen:

  • I travelled to the Great Barrier Reef for a family holiday.  We went diving on the reef and whale watching.  Both businesses independently told me that they were experiencing their busiest and best season in living memory.  For the two weeks we were there, we had exactly one day we could go to the reef as they were otherwise booked out.  And one day we could whale watch, because they were again otherwise booked out.  We didn't travel in peak season, btw.  I did get seasick though!
  • We took a second beach holiday and, again, many of the providers were telling us how solidly booked they were.  We couldn't get tables at restaurants and cafes without booking weeks in advance for the holiday destinations
  • I took my son to a sporting event in a sold out stadium.  No masks were required
  • I took my daughter to a state-level sports carnival where her and her team competed against teams from all over the state in her chosen sport.  No restrictions related to COVID were in play as there were no COVID cases in the community in our state at the time.  She played and trained week in, week out.
     There were more disruptions from weather than there were from COVID
  • My son competed at multiple state and national sporting events in his chosen discipline.  Some minimal restrictions were in play - social distancing in the grandstands and/or masks where social distancing was not possible, except on the field of play.  Again, he faced more disruptions from weather than COVID
  • I took my daughter to see a couple of musicals in sold out theatres.  No restrictions on densities, nor were there requirements to wear masks
  • Day to day, my kids went to school and learnt face to face other than for six weeks of online learning in 2020, 3 weeks in 2021 and a week at the start of 2022
  • Day to day, my wife and I worked as normal (although, we're both SWAMIs so we did have the lack of stress of not 'needing' to work if we so chose).  For the greatest part, COVID was something that was happening elsewhere
  • We ate out at restaurants frequently, or for the short periods of lockdown, we regularly got takeaway.  We have shopped more online, but that's more a convenience measure than an availability or accessibility issue

Several articles I read portraying Australia as a 'nanny-state' seemed to cherrypick restrictions that were in place for either short periods or in different jurisdictions across the country and positioned them as if they were all in place together all the time.  Which was not true at all.  But it did fit the narrative of 'freedumb' that was being played out in certain parts of the media.  Granted, the international border situation was complex, especially for Australian citizens trying to get home.  But for the most part day to day, life in 2020 and 2021 was not too different to life in 2019 (I also recognise this is not necessarily true for those who lived in Melbourne through the 2020 winter).

Also, vegemite is a cruel joke.  It's completely delicious but only if you know the right vegemite to butter ratio.  If you're Australian, it's in your DNA as to how to proportion it, but if you're wrong by even a fraction it can be completely inedible.

Arbitrage

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Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #321 on: May 11, 2022, 07:57:46 AM »
... FIRE doesn't appear to be as easy to accomplish in those countries as it does in the US, so the US is the best country in the world for me right now.
One could probably also argue that the need for FIRE would not be as large in a country that had better work-life balance than the US.
This.  A large part of my motivation to become FI had to do with truly awful job security, and an even worse safety net if you are canned.  My nightmare was getting laid off at 50-odd and being aged out of any decent jobs, and yet still a decade or more from a crappy social security check.  I then had a kid along the way and became acutely aware of the complete lack of work-life balance in the midst of widespread hustle culture, which turbo charged my motivation.

Compared to France, which has a 35-hour work week with no forced/unpaid overtime, laws preventing electronic nagging on off hours, and an average of 6 weeks paid vacation.

I'll take more $$.  Then decide whether that translates into coast FIRE, FIRE, self employment, etc.   That's just me though.  I want to bet on myself and reap the full risk/rewards.  Our system seems to do that the best from what I have read.

Sure, that's fine.  The point was that FIRE probably seems like less of a priority in other (similar) countries that don't have excessive work/overwork as part of the culture. 

Undecided

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Re: Best Country in the World - why do you say this?
« Reply #322 on: May 11, 2022, 02:48:40 PM »
How was Australia the last 2 years lol. People say America is the best because, for all its problems, we have more freedoms enumerated in the constitution than many countries, even Nordic or EU countries, even as our government continually attempts to erode them. In the UK for example, you  can be jailed for an offensive joke. Chief among the US rights is freedom of speech and that is protected by right to bear arms. Many believe that the 2nd amendment is a chief cause for the US' somewhat slower decent into socialism than other countries.

We've lived in Australia a few years now.

I think, at this point, Australia is probably better overall. We're still moving back to the US. I feel a bit guilty, because I'm worried I'm not doing the best for my kids (main reason we're going back is a bit selfish, mainly homesickness). At least we've exposed them to a different culture, and will be able to keep that door open for them.

Healthcare doesn't seem any worse, and is in many ways much better. Wife had to stay in the hospital about a month due to pregnancy complications. Private (though not guaranteed) room, three meals a day, round the clock care. Total cost for the hospital stay and the numerous tests (there were a number of ultrasounds, forget what else they did)? $0.

People seem more accepting of people's differences. You can work a white-collar job and have visible tattoos and piercings. Two examples of this: the lady who put a visa label in my wife's passport (lots of tattoos on her arms, I don't remember piercings) and midwives my wife works with (definitely tattoos, and I think piercings as long as they don't interfere with their work, but don't quote me on that). I see old ladies walking around with bright purple/red/blue/whatever the heck color hair (you can get some really cool colors when you're starting with white hair) and I smile just a bit. You can be openly gay here. Maybe that's just in the tiny section we've spent most of our time in, but we've traveled around a bit and it "seems" similar all around.

Food seems to be higher quality. Finding high-fructose corn syrup (think it's called glucose[maize], and there's a wheat version) is rare. All milk is hormone-free (as in, it's banned). In the US we had to pay a premium to get the non high-fructose corn syrup food, and the hormone-free milk (have to buy organic to get more than a "we pinky-swear not to" guarantee). Argue amongst yourselves whether these are legitimate concerns.

Shaun Micallef. He's funny (mad) as hell.

For all the good, Australia does fall far short in some categories.

High cost of living. Ouch! Have you SEEN the home prices? Not to mention electricity rates.

Seasons are reversed. Seriously, wtf is up with that? I demand you move winter to Christmastime. Pass a resolution or whatever you call it.

Vegemite. This is some kind of cruel joke, right?

As an Australian, I've seen some rather... overblown... reporting, particularly from the rightwing media in the US, as to exactly how restrictive the last two years have been here in Australia.

At the height of COVID, I had the following happen:

  • I travelled to the Great Barrier Reef for a family holiday.  We went diving on the reef and whale watching.  Both businesses independently told me that they were experiencing their busiest and best season in living memory.  For the two weeks we were there, we had exactly one day we could go to the reef as they were otherwise booked out.  And one day we could whale watch, because they were again otherwise booked out.  We didn't travel in peak season, btw.  I did get seasick though!
  • We took a second beach holiday and, again, many of the providers were telling us how solidly booked they were.  We couldn't get tables at restaurants and cafes without booking weeks in advance for the holiday destinations
  • I took my son to a sporting event in a sold out stadium.  No masks were required
  • I took my daughter to a state-level sports carnival where her and her team competed against teams from all over the state in her chosen sport.  No restrictions related to COVID were in play as there were no COVID cases in the community in our state at the time.  She played and trained week in, week out.
     There were more disruptions from weather than there were from COVID
  • My son competed at multiple state and national sporting events in his chosen discipline.  Some minimal restrictions were in play - social distancing in the grandstands and/or masks where social distancing was not possible, except on the field of play.  Again, he faced more disruptions from weather than COVID
  • I took my daughter to see a couple of musicals in sold out theatres.  No restrictions on densities, nor were there requirements to wear masks
  • Day to day, my kids went to school and learnt face to face other than for six weeks of online learning in 2020, 3 weeks in 2021 and a week at the start of 2022
  • Day to day, my wife and I worked as normal (although, we're both SWAMIs so we did have the lack of stress of not 'needing' to work if we so chose).  For the greatest part, COVID was something that was happening elsewhere
  • We ate out at restaurants frequently, or for the short periods of lockdown, we regularly got takeaway.  We have shopped more online, but that's more a convenience measure than an availability or accessibility issue

Several articles I read portraying Australia as a 'nanny-state' seemed to cherrypick restrictions that were in place for either short periods or in different jurisdictions across the country and positioned them as if they were all in place together all the time.  Which was not true at all.  But it did fit the narrative of 'freedumb' that was being played out in certain parts of the media.  Granted, the international border situation was complex, especially for Australian citizens trying to get home.  But for the most part day to day, life in 2020 and 2021 was not too different to life in 2019 (I also recognise this is not necessarily true for those who lived in Melbourne through the 2020 winter).

Also, vegemite is a cruel joke.  It's completely delicious but only if you know the right vegemite to butter ratio.  If you're Australian, it's in your DNA as to how to proportion it, but if you're wrong by even a fraction it can be completely inedible.

You also had freedom from the 10X Covid death rate that the US experienced, which seems to me like it should count for something....
« Last Edit: May 12, 2022, 07:33:57 AM by Undecided »