Author Topic: Becoming a better writer  (Read 1975 times)

darknight

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Becoming a better writer
« on: March 07, 2023, 08:45:39 PM »
Greetings fellow Mustachians

I have some aspirations to start graduate school in the next year. My biggest concern is that I graduated with my BS degree roughly 8 years ago and haven't written many papers. I've written plenty of work emails & I do daily journaling (albeit short entry), but I need to improve my paper writing strength.

I would like to spend the next 4-6 months enhancing my writing skills, do you have any recommendations for becoming a better writer. Maybe online courses, perhaps your tips and tricks that have helped you?

Moustachienne

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Re: Becoming a better writer
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2023, 09:21:37 PM »
There are a LOT of resources that address this question.  I'll get you started with a link to the Purdue OWL https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/  Most universities have useful writing assistance sites but the OWL is the OG. :)  Check out the links under General Writing  https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/general_writing/index.html to get started. Enjoy!



Metalcat

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Re: Becoming a better writer
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2023, 10:35:09 PM »
Figure out what style guide you will be using, read up on it, and learn how to use software, like Zotero. I started back at grad school again this past year, and I write typically 50 pages of formal work every 5 weeks.

As for the actual writing part, that just takes practice. But the more academic articles you read on your topic, the more you will pick up the style. The most important aspect of academic writing, IMO, is parsimony.

My current grad program grills us on this. Each week we have to write 6-10 mini essays on complex topics, each 150-200 words, and including multiple citations. Our papers always have strict word limits.

My classmates complain ENDLESSLY about how impossible it is to stay within the limits, but I personally find it hard to reach them. Focus on making very simple, very clear, defensible points with as little fuss as possible. I frequently remind myself "I am not an academic, I'm a grad student, my opinion doesn't matter, my only job is to convey my impression of what the real experts have written. No one gives a fuck what I have to say, they just want to see evidence that I read the research and understood the assignment."

Because I keep.things simple, because I do really thorough lit reviews for every paper, I tend to present rather nuanced arguments because inlet the real academics do the heavy lifting for me. I don't have to write anything smart, I just have to explain why other smart people's ideas are smart.

darknight

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Re: Becoming a better writer
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2023, 11:09:02 PM »
There are a LOT of resources that address this question.  I'll get you started with a link to the Purdue OWL https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/  Most universities have useful writing assistance sites but the OWL is the OG. :)  Check out the links under General Writing  https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/general_writing/index.html to get started. Enjoy!

These look fantastic, thank you!!

darknight

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Re: Becoming a better writer
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2023, 11:12:19 PM »
Figure out what style guide you will be using, read up on it, and learn how to use software, like Zotero. I started back at grad school again this past year, and I write typically 50 pages of formal work every 5 weeks.

As for the actual writing part, that just takes practice. But the more academic articles you read on your topic, the more you will pick up the style. The most important aspect of academic writing, IMO, is parsimony.

My current grad program grills us on this. Each week we have to write 6-10 mini essays on complex topics, each 150-200 words, and including multiple citations. Our papers always have strict word limits.

My classmates complain ENDLESSLY about how impossible it is to stay within the limits, but I personally find it hard to reach them. Focus on making very simple, very clear, defensible points with as little fuss as possible. I frequently remind myself "I am not an academic, I'm a grad student, my opinion doesn't matter, my only job is to convey my impression of what the real experts have written. No one gives a fuck what I have to say, they just want to see evidence that I read the research and understood the assignment."

Because I keep.things simple, because I do really thorough lit reviews for every paper, I tend to present rather nuanced arguments because inlet the real academics do the heavy lifting for me. I don't have to write anything smart, I just have to explain why other smart people's ideas are smart.

Thank you for the information. The writing portion has been my biggest mental block. Ironically, during my undergrad one of the most difficult courses was a 200 level writing - only because the professor had a similar approach and was brutal about limiting word count. He had a nearly 50% dropout rate. One of my favorite courses, and taught me a lot about communicating instead of trying to get a certain number of words.

I will absolutely keep in mind using those-smarter-than-me approach. Thank you
« Last Edit: March 07, 2023, 11:14:40 PM by darknight »

Metalcat

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Re: Becoming a better writer
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2023, 07:13:17 AM »
Thank you for the information. The writing portion has been my biggest mental block. Ironically, during my undergrad one of the most difficult courses was a 200 level writing - only because the professor had a similar approach and was brutal about limiting word count. He had a nearly 50% dropout rate. One of my favorite courses, and taught me a lot about communicating instead of trying to get a certain number of words.

I will absolutely keep in mind using those-smarter-than-me approach. Thank you

Are you good with lit searches and article review? Because I'm noticing among my classmates that literally none of them have been taught how to do this properly and efficiently.

They're constantly searching for articles to support their ideas instead of letting the literature generate the ideas. I find the ones who struggle the most with efficient writing don't know how to let the literature guide their writing.

Ron Scott

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Re: Becoming a better writer
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2023, 08:05:17 AM »
Reading well-written works, attending to style as well as content, is a good habit to get into. Try Hemingway’s short stories for example. Or good newspaper publications like the NY Times.

Their are several good books too, like these.

https://www.amazon.com/Elements-Style-Fourth-William-Strunk/dp/B0BMSN6VL2/ref=monarch_sidesheet

https://www.amazon.com/Artful-Sentences-Syntax-as-Style/dp/0961392185/ref=sr_1_1?crid=FFP57FO5LTF3&keywords=Artful+sentences&qid=1678287813&s=books&sprefix=artful+sentences%2Cstripbooks%2C83&sr=1-1

Metalcat

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Re: Becoming a better writer
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2023, 08:17:06 AM »
Reading well-written works, attending to style as well as content, is a good habit to get into. Try Hemingway’s short stories for example. Or good newspaper publications like the NY Times.

Their are several good books too, like these.

https://www.amazon.com/Elements-Style-Fourth-William-Strunk/dp/B0BMSN6VL2/ref=monarch_sidesheet

https://www.amazon.com/Artful-Sentences-Syntax-as-Style/dp/0961392185/ref=sr_1_1?crid=FFP57FO5LTF3&keywords=Artful+sentences&qid=1678287813&s=books&sprefix=artful+sentences%2Cstripbooks%2C83&sr=1-1

I think OP is asking about academic writing, which is a different beast, especially science writing. I took several writing classes when I was a liberal arts student before I switched to hard science and I basically had to beat the prose writer out of myself.

I'm back in humanities, so I can use more of my prose skills now, but for years, it was literally painful for me to contort sentences into that godawful passive tense sometimes.

darknight

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Re: Becoming a better writer
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2023, 09:10:47 AM »
Reading well-written works, attending to style as well as content, is a good habit to get into. Try Hemingway’s short stories for example. Or good newspaper publications like the NY Times.

Their are several good books too, like these.

https://www.amazon.com/Elements-Style-Fourth-William-Strunk/dp/B0BMSN6VL2/ref=monarch_sidesheet

https://www.amazon.com/Artful-Sentences-Syntax-as-Style/dp/0961392185/ref=sr_1_1?crid=FFP57FO5LTF3&keywords=Artful+sentences&qid=1678287813&s=books&sprefix=artful+sentences%2Cstripbooks%2C83&sr=1-1

I think OP is asking about academic writing, which is a different beast, especially science writing. I took several writing classes when I was a liberal arts student before I switched to hard science and I basically had to beat the prose writer out of myself.

I'm back in humanities, so I can use more of my prose skills now, but for years, it was literally painful for me to contort sentences into that godawful passive tense sometimes.

I'm looking into the humanities!

darknight

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Re: Becoming a better writer
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2023, 09:12:46 AM »
Thank you for the information. The writing portion has been my biggest mental block. Ironically, during my undergrad one of the most difficult courses was a 200 level writing - only because the professor had a similar approach and was brutal about limiting word count. He had a nearly 50% dropout rate. One of my favorite courses, and taught me a lot about communicating instead of trying to get a certain number of words.

I will absolutely keep in mind using those-smarter-than-me approach. Thank you

Are you good with lit searches and article review? Because I'm noticing among my classmates that literally none of them have been taught how to do this properly and efficiently.

They're constantly searching for articles to support their ideas instead of letting the literature generate the ideas. I find the ones who struggle the most with efficient writing don't know how to let the literature guide their writing.

Most of my lit search and journal search was using the the "google scholar" filters. Any recommendations?

Metalcat

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Re: Becoming a better writer
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2023, 12:36:03 PM »
Thank you for the information. The writing portion has been my biggest mental block. Ironically, during my undergrad one of the most difficult courses was a 200 level writing - only because the professor had a similar approach and was brutal about limiting word count. He had a nearly 50% dropout rate. One of my favorite courses, and taught me a lot about communicating instead of trying to get a certain number of words.

I will absolutely keep in mind using those-smarter-than-me approach. Thank you

Are you good with lit searches and article review? Because I'm noticing among my classmates that literally none of them have been taught how to do this properly and efficiently.

They're constantly searching for articles to support their ideas instead of letting the literature generate the ideas. I find the ones who struggle the most with efficient writing don't know how to let the literature guide their writing.

Most of my lit search and journal search was using the the "google scholar" filters. Any recommendations?

I use google scholar a lot for smaller references, but not for a lit review for a major paper because it doesn't give me access to full articles. I have to have access to full articles to do a proper lit review. So I use my school library, which is unfortunately quite limited, but that isn't an issue because of how I work.

I'm in counselling psychology and I had a course on CBT and had to write a group paper and presentation exploring in detail some current issue regarding CBT and the treatment of anxiety disorders. Most of my classmates made the huge mistake of picking their topic first and then hunting for supporting articles. I always do the opposite. I used my school library and did a very vague search for CBT and anxiety within the last 5 years.

I skimmed the titles of the articles and looked for current themes in the research. Research trends happen in cycles, so if you want a lot of current research, you have to pick a topic that's currently trendy. I saw a few common topics, skimmed them a bit and picked the one I thought I could most effectively write about. I chose CBT and hypochondriasis, because it was recently split into two different categories so there's a TON of current research on it.

I downloaded about 12 articles on this topic and reviewed each of them, noting interesting points in their introductions and discussions, because that's where the interesting takes are. That lead me to focus on the very serious problem that hypochondriacs are primarily treated in the medical system, not the psychology system, and doctors don't really know how to identify it or how to appropriately treat or refer so they get endless tests, but no treatment, so they aren't helped and they cost the medical system a fortune. This stood out as a really interesting angle compared to every other anxiety disorders.

The papers explored whether patients should be immediately referred, if doctors and nurses should be educated in basic CBT methods, if screening tools work, which contexts CBT works best in.

I summarized it all in a document with specific quotes and lumped the articles together into themes, I then organized those themes into a flow that made sense, and voila, there's the skeleton of my paper. From there, it was easy just to write an intro that explained the big picture I was seeing in all of the papers, and paragraphs that describe what each group of themed articles says on the issue, and then a conclusion of what's missing from the research and what should be most useful to study next.

The 12 articles made up the bulk of my points and perspectives, and then I used Google Scholar to hunt for specific references, like healthcare spending figures, references about the lack of mental health training for doctors and nurses, political initiatives to increase mental healthcare spending, etc, ect. The little points that need a backup citation, but I don't need to read an entire paper to get the point.

My classmates were scrambling to figure out what to say specifically about CBT and their chosen anxiety, and to find sources for it that weren't over 10 years old, because so much research on specific anxiety disorders was trendy in the past, meanwhile, all I had to do was understand what other people have written, and explain what I read. No hunting, no trying to figure out what to say.

The final product is my classmates produce clunky papers that mostly parrot what they learned from the textbook with a few citations littered throughout as backup, while my paper actually covers something current and interesting and digs into the real life issues related to this topic today with TONS of current, relevant references, and a really good understanding of the current gaps in the knowledge. They often struggle to find the minimum 6-10 references, my papers typically have 30.

I never, ever start with an idea, I always let the current research tell me what to write about, and the sources just offer themselves to me.

Another example, I have to write a paper about PTSD and have to use a fictional character in a book, show, or movie to write a paper about. Again, my classmates are all asking what characters they should pick, one woman said she was interested in childhood sexual trauma and eating disorders, so she's looking for a character who fits that description. She's not an expert, so she is going to seriously struggle finding good sources for describing the behavioural impacts and treatment options. She's going to try and learn very advanced concepts and treatments before even understanding the basics. It's just a bad idea.

I am again letting the literature tell me what to write about. I did a library search for "PTSD" within the last 5 years and overwhelmingly the articles are about soldiers and CBT. Well okay, I guess that's my topic. So then I looked for a movie that thoroughly portrays soldier PTSD and am currently watching "Born on The Fourth of July" and taking notes based on the symptoms described in the articles I found.

For the treatment section, I'll go back to the articles and do the same kind of summary, looking for treatment themes and current issues and themes that the authors discuss, and then I'll formulate an overview from there.

With this approach, you not only write more effectively, but you learn a lot more when you let the research teach you what the world of academia currently thinks is interesting rather than looking for papers to support what you believe is interesting. That's what I mean by the fact that I don't know anything and no one cares what I think. I start research for each paper from the position that I know NOTHING, and I depend on the actual experts to tell me what I should be finding important.

Experts need to come up with ideas, junior grad students just have to demonstrate that they can read and understand the good ideas of the experts.


honeybbq

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Re: Becoming a better writer
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2023, 12:47:35 PM »
Does the graduate school offer a technical writing class? This was required for my advanced degree.

darknight

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Re: Becoming a better writer
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2023, 02:18:36 PM »
Thank you for the information. The writing portion has been my biggest mental block. Ironically, during my undergrad one of the most difficult courses was a 200 level writing - only because the professor had a similar approach and was brutal about limiting word count. He had a nearly 50% dropout rate. One of my favorite courses, and taught me a lot about communicating instead of trying to get a certain number of words.

I will absolutely keep in mind using those-smarter-than-me approach. Thank you

Are you good with lit searches and article review? Because I'm noticing among my classmates that literally none of them have been taught how to do this properly and efficiently.

They're constantly searching for articles to support their ideas instead of letting the literature generate the ideas. I find the ones who struggle the most with efficient writing don't know how to let the literature guide their writing.

Most of my lit search and journal search was using the the "google scholar" filters. Any recommendations?

I use google scholar a lot for smaller references, but not for a lit review for a major paper because it doesn't give me access to full articles. I have to have access to full articles to do a proper lit review. So I use my school library, which is unfortunately quite limited, but that isn't an issue because of how I work.

I'm in counselling psychology and I had a course on CBT and had to write a group paper and presentation exploring in detail some current issue regarding CBT and the treatment of anxiety disorders. Most of my classmates made the huge mistake of picking their topic first and then hunting for supporting articles. I always do the opposite. I used my school library and did a very vague search for CBT and anxiety within the last 5 years.

I skimmed the titles of the articles and looked for current themes in the research. Research trends happen in cycles, so if you want a lot of current research, you have to pick a topic that's currently trendy. I saw a few common topics, skimmed them a bit and picked the one I thought I could most effectively write about. I chose CBT and hypochondriasis, because it was recently split into two different categories so there's a TON of current research on it.

I downloaded about 12 articles on this topic and reviewed each of them, noting interesting points in their introductions and discussions, because that's where the interesting takes are. That lead me to focus on the very serious problem that hypochondriacs are primarily treated in the medical system, not the psychology system, and doctors don't really know how to identify it or how to appropriately treat or refer so they get endless tests, but no treatment, so they aren't helped and they cost the medical system a fortune. This stood out as a really interesting angle compared to every other anxiety disorders.

The papers explored whether patients should be immediately referred, if doctors and nurses should be educated in basic CBT methods, if screening tools work, which contexts CBT works best in.

I summarized it all in a document with specific quotes and lumped the articles together into themes, I then organized those themes into a flow that made sense, and voila, there's the skeleton of my paper. From there, it was easy just to write an intro that explained the big picture I was seeing in all of the papers, and paragraphs that describe what each group of themed articles says on the issue, and then a conclusion of what's missing from the research and what should be most useful to study next.

The 12 articles made up the bulk of my points and perspectives, and then I used Google Scholar to hunt for specific references, like healthcare spending figures, references about the lack of mental health training for doctors and nurses, political initiatives to increase mental healthcare spending, etc, ect. The little points that need a backup citation, but I don't need to read an entire paper to get the point.

My classmates were scrambling to figure out what to say specifically about CBT and their chosen anxiety, and to find sources for it that weren't over 10 years old, because so much research on specific anxiety disorders was trendy in the past, meanwhile, all I had to do was understand what other people have written, and explain what I read. No hunting, no trying to figure out what to say.

The final product is my classmates produce clunky papers that mostly parrot what they learned from the textbook with a few citations littered throughout as backup, while my paper actually covers something current and interesting and digs into the real life issues related to this topic today with TONS of current, relevant references, and a really good understanding of the current gaps in the knowledge. They often struggle to find the minimum 6-10 references, my papers typically have 30.

I never, ever start with an idea, I always let the current research tell me what to write about, and the sources just offer themselves to me.

Another example, I have to write a paper about PTSD and have to use a fictional character in a book, show, or movie to write a paper about. Again, my classmates are all asking what characters they should pick, one woman said she was interested in childhood sexual trauma and eating disorders, so she's looking for a character who fits that description. She's not an expert, so she is going to seriously struggle finding good sources for describing the behavioural impacts and treatment options. She's going to try and learn very advanced concepts and treatments before even understanding the basics. It's just a bad idea.

I am again letting the literature tell me what to write about. I did a library search for "PTSD" within the last 5 years and overwhelmingly the articles are about soldiers and CBT. Well okay, I guess that's my topic. So then I looked for a movie that thoroughly portrays soldier PTSD and am currently watching "Born on The Fourth of July" and taking notes based on the symptoms described in the articles I found.

For the treatment section, I'll go back to the articles and do the same kind of summary, looking for treatment themes and current issues and themes that the authors discuss, and then I'll formulate an overview from there.

With this approach, you not only write more effectively, but you learn a lot more when you let the research teach you what the world of academia currently thinks is interesting rather than looking for papers to support what you believe is interesting. That's what I mean by the fact that I don't know anything and no one cares what I think. I start research for each paper from the position that I know NOTHING, and I depend on the actual experts to tell me what I should be finding important.

Experts need to come up with ideas, junior grad students just have to demonstrate that they can read and understand the good ideas of the experts.

Alright, this is fantastic. Thank you for taking the time to write out your process. That is opposite of how I (and probably many students) would approach a subject. This is fantastic information, that will absolutely be put to use. "Experts need to come up with ideas, junior grad students just have to demonstrate that they can read and understand the good ideas of the experts." Pure gold. Thank you
« Last Edit: March 08, 2023, 02:20:54 PM by darknight »

darknight

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Re: Becoming a better writer
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2023, 02:21:35 PM »
Does the graduate school offer a technical writing class? This was required for my advanced degree.

I spoke with an admin/enrollment specialist yesterday, she did mention that their are writing classes available once accepted.

Metalcat

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Re: Becoming a better writer
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2023, 03:00:23 PM »
Alright, this is fantastic. Thank you for taking the time to write out your process. That is opposite of how I (and probably many students) would approach a subject. This is fantastic information, that will absolutely be put to use. "Experts need to come up with ideas, junior grad students just have to demonstrate that they can read and understand the good ideas of the experts." Pure gold. Thank you

You're very welcome. Yep, I've coached many of my classmates to change the way they approach lit review and they all say it's like a Eureka! moment when they realize how easy writing papers can be when they approach it this way compared to how they have always done it.

It takes a much larger investment of time up front to actually read and review literature, but I would prefer hours of reading and learning and then quick easy writing to hours of agonizing over writing trying to figure out what to say and searching for supporting evidence that may not even exist, at least not in recent enough forms.

pm me anytime if you need more specific help, I currently write 10-20 pages a week, so I'm literally always working on this kind of thing.

Gerard

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Re: Becoming a better writer
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2023, 08:51:17 AM »
Retired prof here. I don't have much to add, except to say that Malcat's advice is gold.

wrt style (rather than content/citations), it's gonna vary by subdiscipline, but you usually want to focus on conveying information, rather than "sounding fancy". I used to tell my students, "you have a lot of frosting in here, but you forgot to bake the cake."

darknight

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Re: Becoming a better writer
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2023, 09:51:00 AM »
Retired prof here. I don't have much to add, except to say that Malcat's advice is gold.

wrt style (rather than content/citations), it's gonna vary by subdiscipline, but you usually want to focus on conveying information, rather than "sounding fancy". I used to tell my students, "you have a lot of frosting in here, but you forgot to bake the cake."

Thank you for the input. Added to the list.. Bake a good cake and add frosting when needed.

StarBright

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Re: Becoming a better writer
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2023, 10:17:26 AM »
I hang with a lot of humanities PhDs - almost a decade out at this point, but Bird by Bird by Anne Lamott was passed around A LOT as people were working on their dissertations.

It isn't about academic writing, but it contains good stuff -especially the idea of Sh*tty First Drafts. I also think her take on structure/building blocks is helpful for academic writers. Too much academic writing comes off as phrase salad, when you read a paper that teaches you something AND is well written, it is sort of magic.

Chris Pascale

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Re: Becoming a better writer
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2023, 05:16:55 PM »
A simple template could be:

INTRO: Tell them what you will say: "In this essay it will be revealed......."

BODY: Say it

CONCLUSION: Tell them what you said

HenryDavid

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Re: Becoming a better writer
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2023, 12:36:06 PM »
There are so much better and more accessible writing aids now!
Purdue OWL has been cited, it’s handy.

The olde standby The Elements of Style still works.
And Orwell’s essay Politics and the English Language. Fun.

I learned so much from the précis exercise where you:
1. Write something, say 1000 words
2. Make the identical points using 500 words.
3. Ask yourself which is better.

also: Read Everything Out Loud.
Try it.

HenryDavid

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Re: Becoming a better writer
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2023, 12:44:04 PM »
Oh, yeah. Read great examples of the kind of thing you aim to write. Study these carefully. Learn their methods. Get some heroes and “be them” as much as you can.

People say “I’m crap at writing X” and I ask “how many X have you read?”
Ummmm …. not a lot, they say.

And finally! Plan to revise 3 times. Minimum.

Metalcat

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Re: Becoming a better writer
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2023, 01:03:59 PM »
Oh, yeah. Read great examples of the kind of thing you aim to write. Study these carefully. Learn their methods. Get some heroes and “be them” as much as you can.

People say “I’m crap at writing X” and I ask “how many X have you read?”
Ummmm …. not a lot, they say.

And finally! Plan to revise 3 times. Minimum.

For academic work I never revise. Ever.

I do a final review with minor edits, but very minimal.

HenryDavid

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Re: Becoming a better writer
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2023, 06:17:25 PM »
Hmm, in my view you are a practiced and outstanding communicator.
Not usual.
And some writers do have this ability to compose and edit in one pass. If you got it, enjoy it!

Metalcat

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Re: Becoming a better writer
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2023, 08:28:49 PM »
Hmm, in my view you are a practiced and outstanding communicator.
Not usual.
And some writers do have this ability to compose and edit in one pass. If you got it, enjoy it!

Thanks for the compliment. But when I write narrative work, I do edit and edit and edit. Which is probably why I hate writing narrative work, lol.

But for academic writing, I found that once you really master saying things with as few words as possible in the first place, there just isn't much to edit.

Also, if people structure papers the way I explained in my earlier post, it's more like a process of reporting on existing knowledge rather than generating content.

When you have to generate content, you have to just kind of let it flow and then edit. But when you're just reporting on what is, in as simple and matter of fact a way as possible, you can kind of edit as you write as you keep each paragraph as parsimonious as possible while still cramming in every point that the lit review has generated.

It's more of a curating process, not a creative one

For me the creative part is in how I organize the information I got from the lit review, my overall impression and the lense through which I'll present what I've found.

That is a creative process, but involves almost no writing beyond chicken scratch notes about what I want to take from each article. And then I literally physically move them around until they're in the order I want.

The lit review and thought organization takes at least 2 days of work. That's the research and understanding. That's where the real work is done, organizing other people's ideas.

The writing part is less like actual writing and more like transcribing, so it's just one and done.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!