Author Topic: Basic Communication Skills  (Read 12677 times)

Fishindude

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Basic Communication Skills
« on: February 02, 2016, 10:15:26 AM »
I see many threads here where someone says "I emailed this or that", or "I texted them", etc.

Perhaps I'm a bit old school, but quit typing and start talking, you can accomplish so much more.   Texts, emails, etc. should be for brief messages, not lengthy important discussions.   You can't hear voice tone or see / hear emotions in written form, so written stuff often gets misinterpreted. 

Have a telephone or better yet a face to face conversation, hash out your issues and settle them rather than going back and forth with numerous electronic communications.  Folks with good people skills can go far, and it's time more started developing them.


dandarc

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2016, 10:17:25 AM »
Former coworker's thoughts on this:

Quote
I got into computers so I wouldn't have to deal with people!

Eric

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2016, 10:17:50 AM »
In what capacity?  When my coworkers attempt to call me instead of email me, I want to punch them in the throat.  And if it's actually important, then having it in writing is even more important.

WildJager

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2016, 10:26:39 AM »
If it's a non time critical issue, I'll email so they can get to it whenever their schedule allows.

If it's a lot of technical jargon that they're expecting to eventually come, I'll type it out so we can establish a reference point.

If I have to get the ball rolling on something ambiguous, I'll come find them to shoot the shit, or call if it's too far to walk.  If this can be hashed out over a beer, even better.

If I need something done immediately with an agency that is notoriously bad at getting anything accomplished, I don't even bother with email or phone.  I just work it into my schedule to talk to them face to face unannounced and get the problem solved.  That truly is the most effective method when you really need to get shit done.  Usually these types are just busy browsing facebook or something, so I'm not really concerned with being rude.

AZDude

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2016, 11:27:12 AM »
Yep, depends on the urgency. The more urgent, the more direct the conversation is. Also, if the conversation is going to be uncomfortable, then you talk in person. People freak out less when they have to look you in the eyes. Exception being HR, of course, since they are soulless and thus feel no emotion.

Zikoris

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2016, 11:28:28 AM »
I'm a fan of email for lengthy topics that require a lot of explanation. It gives me something useful to refer back to in the future if I need to, rather than trying to remember some detail someone told me. But I often am in awe of the things people consider appropriate to discuss via text messaging - relationship issues, etc. Or maybe I'm just sore because I was fired by text message once.

Bertram

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2016, 12:02:12 PM »
Perhaps I'm a bit old school, but quit typing and start talking, you can accomplish so much more.

It depends on the type of work. Especially with things like software development or other complex topics there is a very high cost for context switching. A "quick phone call" that takes 5 minutes can easily mean the person you called lost 45 to 60 minutes. Because they need to get in the right mindset to solve a problem. There is incredibly high amounts of lost productivity due to this especially in corporate settings where this is not respected.

E-Mail is asynchronous and can help pipeline stuff, which is very difficult to do with phone calls.

Yes, there are very many situations where face to face and phone calls can help ease tension and prevent misunderstandings.

But the key is not to rely on one over the other, but to know when to use what.

Quote
Folks with good people skills can go far, and it's time more started developing them.

True, however this is entirely independent of written vs. verbal/face-to-face communication. Two different dimensions and you can be in each of the four quadrants.

Bertram

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2016, 12:06:17 PM »
Former coworker's thoughts on this:

Quote
I got into computers so I wouldn't have to deal with people!

"So... what would you say you do here?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4OvQIGDg4I

coppertop

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2016, 12:15:56 PM »
There are times when I want a response in writing so I have something to refer to in the future.  One person I deal with in particular is notorious for answering my e-mails with a phone call.  This annoys the heck out of me.  My theory about this guy, though, is that he really doesn't know the answer so he attempts to bullsh*t me, which is easier to do verbally than in an e-mail.  Did you ever talk to someone and after they hung up, you thought to yourself "What did he just say and did he even answer my question?"

dandarc

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2016, 12:22:52 PM »
Former coworker's thoughts on this:

Quote
I got into computers so I wouldn't have to deal with people!

"So... what would you say you do here?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4OvQIGDg4I
SOMEBODY HAS TO TALK TO THE GODDAMN CUSTOMERS!

Luck12

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2016, 12:25:48 PM »
I hate talking on the phone or in person (think it's downright selfish) when a simple email would suffice especially since the types who love talking on the phone or in person tend to bloviate endlessly.   Email/text also allows me to have time to research something and be sure of it rather than be put on the spot.   

HipGnosis

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2016, 12:47:31 PM »
Former coworker's thoughts on this:

Quote
I got into computers so I wouldn't have to deal with people!

"So... what would you say you do here?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4OvQIGDg4I
SOMEBODY HAS TO TALK TO THE GODDAMN CUSTOMERS!
I work in the IT dept. of a small(ish) company.  My co-worker and I determined that there are only 2 issue sources;
Management and customers.
Oh, and updates.

Fishindude

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2016, 01:25:46 PM »
There are plenty of times where things need to be documented and an email makes sense; terms, money, warnings, etc.
Per my original post, emails and text are perfectly appropriate many types of short messages.

What gets ridiculous is typing out lengthy conversations and going back and forth multiple times when you could just talk and settle it.
I see this in the office.  Somebody sends out a multi-person email about something and it goes round & round half a day with everyone throwing in their two cents.  In most cases, we could have just huddled the group and settled the matter in a couple minute meeting.

The ability to communicate verbally has really gone south in the last decade or less.
Folks in business with good verbal communication skills will have a whole lot of opportunity.

MsSindy

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2016, 01:37:36 PM »
Not to speak for the OP, but perhaps this was for more personal conversations, not work ones.  I prefer all personal conversations either on the phone or in person, except for mundane chit-chat...that's fine via text.  I prefer work comms in emails, depending on the situation and how it's getting resolved, then one party may initiate a quick call for clarification (I work with a lot of off-shore, so sometimes it's just easier to talk via Skype for 5 min).  It's all situational, though.

Cute story (well, at least I think so):
DH and I finally got smartphones.  He texts me to ask if he can purchase (yet another) hobbything and use an advance on next year's hobby budget (BTW, I think he spends too much, so it's a touchy topic).  After a few back and forths I finally said, sure, fine as long as we reduce next year's budget.  And what I got back was "Thanks???"   And I interpret this as he's pissed that he has to thank me for asking 'permission' to buy something.  So I'm on my way home during this text exchange and I'm a bit pissy when I get home, and he's all cheery - I can't figure it out.  So, I ask, what the hell did he mean by all the question marks?  So long story short, he says no, he was sending me emjoi kisses and hugs....I look at his phone and sure enough there are cute little pics of hearts and kisses....they were displaying on my phone as question marks (Googled how to fix it!).  So, while he was being sweet, I was cussing at him (in my head!).  Total misunderstanding.  But yeah, since he knows that this is a touchy subject he should have just waited to do it in person - this was a bit of a chicken-shit approach over text...and he admitted as such. 

Our rule for texting is only for mundane things that require no further explanation: I'm on my way home, pick up lettuce, don't forget to make your drs. appt

herbgeek

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2016, 01:59:01 PM »
I hate when co-workers call me.  It says to me that they think that their time is more important than my time, and they can interrupt me at will.  I particularly dislike this when I'm working on something complex that takes a lot of concentration.

Fishindude

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2016, 02:20:10 PM »
I hate when co-workers call me.  It says to me that they think that their time is more important than my time, and they can interrupt me at will.

Basic time management stuff.  Far as I know, just about every phone has a voice message feature.   If you're too busy to pick it up, don't pick it up.
Further, it takes no longer for a quick conversation than the time needed to type an email.  State your business, then get off the phone.

PhysicianOnFIRE

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2016, 02:36:03 PM »
I see many threads here where someone says "I emailed this or that", or "I texted them", etc.

Perhaps I'm a bit old school, but quit typing and start talking, you can accomplish so much more.   Texts, emails, etc. should be for brief messages, not lengthy important discussions.   You can't hear voice tone or see / hear emotions in written form, so written stuff often gets misinterpreted. 

Have a telephone or better yet a face to face conversation, hash out your issues and settle them rather than going back and forth with numerous electronic communications.  Folks with good people skills can go far, and it's time more started developing them.

Perhaps you could come over and we could discuss this in person.  ;)

I get your point, but this discussion seems to be humming along just fine with a bunch of text all in the same font.

runningthroughFIRE

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2016, 02:57:28 PM »
For work: email me so I can have written record of what was said, what you wanted, or what we agreed upon.  Calling is fine if it's quick or we're sending emails back and forth several times without much progress.  If I get called out of the blue to answer a question, it puts me on the spot and getting a decent answer might take some time.  Putting it in an email means I can get to it when I don't have something higher priority going on.  If something is particularly complicated, we can set up a phone call or I meet in person if we're in the same building.

In my personal life: phone calls are fine, but it's kind of assuming I don't have anything else I'd rather be giving my attention.  If it isn't urgent or can be said in two sentences or less, just text me.

galliver

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2016, 04:08:30 PM »
I suspect there is a generational component here. When phone is the only way to reach someone the same day, and written communication takes 2 days or a lot of money to get there, of course you talk on the phone! And you get used to having that sort of instant response from people, and no one is bothered too much because that's the only way. But now, we have email, chat, and text to send each other written messages, instantly. This leaves a record, doesn't interrupt someone's workflow, and lets them research and think through the answer before sending it to you. So unless it's absolutely urgent or has a significant emotional component where tone might be important (hard to imagine that in a business setting...), we actually consider it RUDE to make it a cold phone call or meeting unnecessarily. If you'd really rather talk in person, maybe for something with lots of back and forth, send a message and ask when a good time is. And of course, if it's urgent but didn't have to be, then that's an example of poor work ethic and  time management on the *caller's* part...it happens, of course, but if it happens too often you have a character flaw to work on.

I do make phone calls when I need to. It can be very helpful at times and is a good skill to have. But it has its downsides. It can be hard to understand each other, especially if someone has an accent, which is increasingly common in a globalized economy (and before you judge people with accents, think about how well you speak THEIR language). Written communication is also much easier for someone with limited skills in a language to handle. And even without such considerations--language, or at least English, can be ambiguous. This morning my bf was talking to me about "this kettle your parents ad" where I kept trying to figure out what I misheard as "kettle" when actually I had misheard "had" as "ad" (the kettle was on sale). The other day we were separating in the grocery store and he suggested "meat 'n veggies" which might sound reasonable for a grocery store but we were talking about how he would get beer and bread and I would get salad greens. Turns out he was suggesting we MEET in veggies, i.e. the produce department at the front. As for phone conversations, spelling my name is always a "fun" experience.  Depending on the connection quality, giving a phone number, model number, policy number, account number, or address can also be fun. Main Street and Washington Rd are pretty straightforward but Thirteenth can easily be mistaken for Thirtieth, and that doesn't even touch on the less common names.

Phone calls have their place. But they aren't 100% better or a complete reflection of someone's communication skills. Maybe that person you wrote off can assemble an awesome report.

BlueHouse

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2016, 10:41:29 AM »
I see many threads here where someone says "I emailed this or that", or "I texted them", etc.
A basic tenet of communication is that the onus is on the transmitter to make sure the message has been received and understood.  Communication is not complete until the receiver transmits some signal back to the transmitter.  There are many ways to do this:  body language, verbal responses, or even a text message back that says "OK".  I am bugged by how few people know this in today's world and think that just because they sent a few characters out into the ether that they are now off the hook for completing a task. 





AZDude

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2016, 11:26:30 AM »
I see many threads here where someone says "I emailed this or that", or "I texted them", etc.
A basic tenet of communication is that the onus is on the transmitter to make sure the message has been received and understood.  Communication is not complete until the receiver transmits some signal back to the transmitter.  There are many ways to do this:  body language, verbal responses, or even a text message back that says "OK".  I am bugged by how few people know this in today's world and think that just because they sent a few characters out into the ether that they are now off the hook for completing a task.

This is true. You need to follow up if you do not get a response. Typical process: E-mail asking for an answer/solution/etc... Whenever an amount of time has passed where I feel a response should have been received(depends on the urgency of the request and the workload of the person being asked), then I either walk over or call them. I don't let stuff go into a black hole.

For some people who are truly disorganized or dysfunctional, I e-mail and then walk over immediately and make sure they verbally acknowledge that I need X by X hours later(or whatever).

Psychstache

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2016, 11:41:34 AM »
There are plenty of times where things need to be documented and an email makes sense; terms, money, warnings, etc.
Per my original post, emails and text are perfectly appropriate many types of short messages.

What gets ridiculous is typing out lengthy conversations and going back and forth multiple times when you could just talk and settle it.
I see this in the office.  Somebody sends out a multi-person email about something and it goes round & round half a day with everyone throwing in their two cents.  In most cases, we could have just huddled the group and settled the matter in a couple minute meeting.

The ability to communicate verbally has really gone south in the last decade or less.
Folks in business with good verbal communication skills will have a whole lot of opportunity.

Please let me know when you are hiring. I want to see this utopia where 10 people can gather around a conference table and be out in 'a couple minutes'   :)

Psychstache

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2016, 11:52:21 AM »
I hate when co-workers call me.  It says to me that they think that their time is more important than my time, and they can interrupt me at will.

Basic time management stuff.  Far as I know, just about every phone has a voice message feature.   If you're too busy to pick it up, don't pick it up.
Further, it takes no longer for a quick conversation than the time needed to type an email.  State your business, then get off the phone.

In many work places, this would be a negative on your communication skills. You can't just ask what you need and then get off the phone, you need to ask me how my weekend was so I can talk about the logistics of taking my kids to 3 different soccer games and what a pain my MIL is at Sunday dinner.

samburger

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2016, 05:38:54 PM »
Sorry, OP. It's difficult to take you seriously when you're hailing me on a forum. Give me a call and we'll talk.

iris lily

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2016, 07:28:36 PM »
I see many threads here where someone says "I emailed this or that", or "I texted them", etc.
A basic tenet of communication is that the onus is on the transmitter to make sure the message has been received and understood.  Communication is not complete until the receiver transmits some signal back to the transmitter.  There are many ways to do this:  body language, verbal responses, or even a text message back that says "OK".  I am bugged by how few people know this in today's world and think that just because they sent a few characters out into the ether that they are now off the hook for completing a task.

People who worked for me got to pull that shit once. Then I taught them better.

After that, it was fair game for performance review.

obstinate

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2016, 07:31:57 PM »
There's a lot to be said for f2f, but there's also some value in refining your thoughts to text, and the record that activity offers. Each has its place.

VAR

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2016, 09:12:17 PM »
Where I work face to face chats not pertaining to "how was your weekend?" always mean something along the lines of "I don't like what you're doing, and I want you to change it"

For almost everything else there's a steady stream of texts and emails running all day long. Nobody has time for "talking."
What ruins it is my coworker who perpetually writes response emails but forgets to send them. Sigh.

ender

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2016, 06:07:49 AM »
I routinely IM co-workers sitting 5 feet away.

Context switching is the way you kill productivity of software engineers.

Fortunately we don't even have phones lol so that's not a problem :-)

WerKater

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2016, 06:47:08 AM »
I see many threads here where someone says "I emailed this or that", or "I texted them", etc.

Perhaps I'm a bit old school, but quit typing and start talking, you can accomplish so much more.   Texts, emails, etc. should be for brief messages, not lengthy important discussions.  You can't hear voice tone or see / hear emotions in written form, so written stuff often gets misinterpreted. 

Have a telephone or better yet a face to face conversation, hash out your issues and settle them rather than going back and forth with numerous electronic communications.  Folks with good people skills can go far, and it's time more started developing them.
This is incorrect. (I am exaggerating. It depends on what you are trying to do and in what context. But since you stated your opinion absolutely, I am allowed to do the same).  Generally, I think that people talk way too much.

I get really exasperated about the passionate love-relationship some people have with telephones. I do IT support and for many things e-mail is very efficient and telephone sucks. I don't want to know someone's precice mood; I want to know which exact freaking command he used and which exact error message he got.

- Everytime you call someone on the phone you might be interrupting him in somewhat and thereby making him less efficient overall.
- Customer calls me. But I am not available right now. Later, I call him back but he is not available. When we finally get hold of each other, it turns out his problem was trivial and fixed within 2 minutes. If he had just written an email, the problem would have been solved hours earlier.
- Customer calls me. Turns out he has a somewhat complicated problem. I ask him to just write me an email with the details (directories and commands used, error messages). But he wants to do it on the phone. So he proceeds to read a bunch of freakishly long directory names to me. Half of them are subtly wrong, of course. It takes 20min or so until we have everything right. If he had just put it into an email, it might have taken him 5min. And me zero.

« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 06:52:53 AM by WerKater »

wenchsenior

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2016, 10:07:24 AM »
I see many threads here where someone says "I emailed this or that", or "I texted them", etc.

Perhaps I'm a bit old school, but quit typing and start talking, you can accomplish so much more.   Texts, emails, etc. should be for brief messages, not lengthy important discussions.  You can't hear voice tone or see / hear emotions in written form, so written stuff often gets misinterpreted. 

Have a telephone or better yet a face to face conversation, hash out your issues and settle them rather than going back and forth with numerous electronic communications.  Folks with good people skills can go far, and it's time more started developing them.
This is incorrect. (I am exaggerating. It depends on what you are trying to do and in what context. But since you stated your opinion absolutely, I am allowed to do the same).  Generally, I think that people talk way too much.

I get really exasperated about the passionate love-relationship some people have with telephones. I do IT support and for many things e-mail is very efficient and telephone sucks. I don't want to know someone's precice mood; I want to know which exact freaking command he used and which exact error message he got.

- Everytime you call someone on the phone you might be interrupting him in somewhat and thereby making him less efficient overall.
- Customer calls me. But I am not available right now. Later, I call him back but he is not available. When we finally get hold of each other, it turns out his problem was trivial and fixed within 2 minutes. If he had just written an email, the problem would have been solved hours earlier.
- Customer calls me. Turns out he has a somewhat complicated problem. I ask him to just write me an email with the details (directories and commands used, error messages). But he wants to do it on the phone. So he proceeds to read a bunch of freakishly long directory names to me. Half of them are subtly wrong, of course. It takes 20min or so until we have everything right. If he had just put it into an email, it might have taken him 5min. And me zero.

I'm Gen X. Phones make me crazy and always have, since I was a kid. They are incredibly intrusive. Essentially, you are making the call when it is convenient to you to do so, with no care to how convenient it is to the receiver.  I rarely answer calls myself, and I would never think of calling someone else unless I have no other reasonable option because I would consider it rude to impose. Also it is creepy talking to someone I can't see unless I know them very well because I cannot necessarily interpret tiny intonations of voice, pauses, etc., to adjust the tone of the convo. Way too many chances to accidentally misinterpret a cue and create problems.

When I do need to call someone I don't know, I want the convo brief and to the point (see above reasons). Let's greet each other, state the business, and get off the phone. Therefore, working phone calls that follow predictable patterns are ok, if not pleasant. Personal or 'mixed' calls with people I know but am not very close with are often pretty stressful.

I don't really care for texting either...too cursory...but at least it is efficient. Emailing is preferable to me, because at least  you can make yourself very clear. Face to face communication is totally fine and comfortable...there are a million cues in body language and expression to add to the voice.

Digital Dogma

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2016, 11:25:20 AM »
In what capacity?  When my coworkers attempt to call me instead of email me, I want to punch them in the throat.  And if it's actually important, then having it in writing is even more important.
I think this is a generational thing, older folks in my industry rely more on verbal communication. Personally, I always prefer to receive my communication in writing (txt or email) so that when the inevitable miscommunication occurs and they go "I never said that" I throw it back in their face using their own words.

If you want to communicate something shady and cover your ass if it goes bad on you, telephone is the way to go.

GuitarStv

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2016, 12:34:49 PM »
If you want to communicate something shady and cover your ass if it goes bad on you, telephone is the way to go.

For covering your ass, email is the way to go.  You have a dated record of exactly what was sent.  There's no chance for someone to later claim that what they heard isn't what you said.  There's no way that they can pretend that you didn't talk about the matter.

Email has saved my ass several times in the workplace, and is my preferred method of communication for that reason.  If someone phones me about something important, I'll often immediately reply with an email that summarizes the conversation to keep this record.

HipGnosis

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2016, 03:01:48 PM »
And for the love of Pasta, do NOT leave me a voice mail that says "This is X, call me back"!!
I hate you a little for making me go thru voicemail to get and listen to your message.  I know you called, the phone has caller ID.
I hate you a little more for not telling me why, when, what priority, etc. your call is about!

GreenSheep

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2016, 04:52:37 PM »
And for the love of Pasta, do NOT leave me a voice mail that says "This is X, call me back"!!
I hate you a little for making me go thru voicemail to get and listen to your message.  I know you called, the phone has caller ID.
I hate you a little more for not telling me why, when, what priority, etc. your call is about!

Yes! This! I don't return personal calls when voicemails like this are left. I just stopped bothering. They can call me again and leave a useful message (or maybe catch me when I can answer), or they can contact me another way. Fortunately, I've never had a voicemail like this from anyone at work.

Equally awful are the clickbait-esque voicemails, emails, or texts that inform me only that the sender has something amazing/unbelievable to tell me. Either tell me in the message itself or wait till you see me. Previews are ridiculous and will not make me call/write back any faster.

As for email, I keep every single work-related email I send or receive. It's been quite handy.

BlueHouse

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2016, 06:58:40 AM »
In what capacity?  When my coworkers attempt to call me instead of email me, I want to punch them in the throat.  And if it's actually important, then having it in writing is even more important.
I think this is a generational thing, older folks in my industry rely more on verbal communication. Personally, I always prefer to receive my communication in writing (txt or email) so that when the inevitable miscommunication occurs and they go "I never said that" I throw it back in their face using their own words.

If you want to communicate something shady and cover your ass if it goes bad on you, telephone is the way to go.
You're right. This IS a generational thing. Younger generations are more often focused on covering their asses, being able to say "I told you so", making sure they are not "disrespected", and in general putting themselves first.
Older people (usually even older than me) were brought up in a business and personal world where good manners and etiquette require one to try to make the other person feel as if they are the most important person in the room. They generally try to help others first and if a mistake were made, they often are the first to say "I must have misunderstood", while others are busy scanning email to push in their faces with an "I told you so".
Obviously, this is a huge over generalization, but I see this type of attitude everywhere these days and often feel myself being dragged down into it. The office, the highway, the supermarket, the sidewalk, the parking lot. It's rough out there!  I am old enough to remember a kinder world. And one where if you made a mistake you weren't afraid to own up to it because others would want to help you fix it, not throw you under the bus.
It is painfully obvious when the emails we receive exist to cover your ass instead of to actually try to accomplish something. And it sets off a chain of defensive behavior that kills any sort of  comradarie that may have been possible. So maybe just focus on communicating, whatever the form, rather than waiting for a "gotcha moment" so you can burn someone else. Who the fuck cares whose fault it was?  Just get it done! 
/rant over

sheepstache

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2016, 07:30:45 AM »
And for the love of Pasta, do NOT leave me a voice mail that says "This is X, call me back"!!
I hate you a little for making me go thru voicemail to get and listen to your message.  I know you called, the phone has caller ID.
I hate you a little more for not telling me why, when, what priority, etc. your call is about!

Yes! This! I don't return personal calls when voicemails like this are left. I just stopped bothering. They can call me again and leave a useful message (or maybe catch me when I can answer), or they can contact me another way. Fortunately, I've never had a voicemail like this from anyone at work.

Equally awful are the clickbait-esque voicemails, emails, or texts that inform me only that the sender has something amazing/unbelievable to tell me. Either tell me in the message itself or wait till you see me. Previews are ridiculous and will not make me call/write back any faster.

As for email, I keep every single work-related email I send or receive. It's been quite handy.

Ha ha ha oh my god yes. A friend from highschool died in a horrific car accident but for the week or so that he hung on, I would get voicemails from the friend on the ground with their voice pitched super dramatic and long pauses between statements..." Sheep...it's xxx......It's about yyy...Call me back."  Like, no fuck it's about yyy!  What, you're gonna interrupt your deathbed vigil to ask if I want to do some ultimate frisbee this weekend or what I think of the new Fiona Apple album?  Like, every goddamn time I got one of these messages, I can't tell if it's just an update on yyy's condition or he's died and she doesn't want to tell me over voicemail. So every time I call back and don't get her, I sit around thinking he might be dead until she can ring me back and it turns out they're just trying some new surgery.  It was like, I absolutely appreciated that she was willing to be point person, but it could actually make it more painful at times.

galliver

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2016, 10:21:00 AM »
In what capacity?  When my coworkers attempt to call me instead of email me, I want to punch them in the throat.  And if it's actually important, then having it in writing is even more important.
I think this is a generational thing, older folks in my industry rely more on verbal communication. Personally, I always prefer to receive my communication in writing (txt or email) so that when the inevitable miscommunication occurs and they go "I never said that" I throw it back in their face using their own words.

If you want to communicate something shady and cover your ass if it goes bad on you, telephone is the way to go.
You're right. This IS a generational thing. Younger generations are more often focused on covering their asses, being able to say "I told you so", making sure they are not "disrespected", and in general putting themselves first.
Older people (usually even older than me) were brought up in a business and personal world where good manners and etiquette require one to try to make the other person feel as if they are the most important person in the room. They generally try to help others first and if a mistake were made, they often are the first to say "I must have misunderstood", while others are busy scanning email to push in their faces with an "I told you so".
Obviously, this is a huge over generalization, but I see this type of attitude everywhere these days and often feel myself being dragged down into it. The office, the highway, the supermarket, the sidewalk, the parking lot. It's rough out there!  I am old enough to remember a kinder world. And one where if you made a mistake you weren't afraid to own up to it because others would want to help you fix it, not throw you under the bus.
It is painfully obvious when the emails we receive exist to cover your ass instead of to actually try to accomplish something. And it sets off a chain of defensive behavior that kills any sort of  comradarie that may have been possible. So maybe just focus on communicating, whatever the form, rather than waiting for a "gotcha moment" so you can burn someone else. Who the fuck cares whose fault it was?  Just get it done! 
/rant over

Wow. Ok. First, can we check the nostalgia? The whole "these lazy, disrespectful young people today are losing the manners and life skills that my generation had *thumps chest* our society is done for!" mentality goes back to Plato. But (a) you look at several generations and realize things do get done, and (b) who raises said "young people"? That's right, the older generation. If we were trained to cover our asses, it was by precisely the people you claim "were brought up in a business and personal world where good manners and etiquette require one to try to make the other person feel as if they are the most important person in the room." Maybe, because they got tired of saying "I must have misunderstood" when they know FOR SURE that X was agreed upon and now Y was being asked for, which would not have been agreed to in the first place, because Z, but now it has to be offered to save face.

Incidentally, I have never encountered this "desire to burn someone" you claim is everywhere. What I have encountered is that I, and my peers, are much less likely to argue about objective facts that we can reference with a device from our pockets, or similarly, act on uncertain information, when again, it can be referenced instantly.

ender

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #37 on: March 25, 2016, 08:08:15 PM »
In what capacity?  When my coworkers attempt to call me instead of email me, I want to punch them in the throat.  And if it's actually important, then having it in writing is even more important.
I think this is a generational thing, older folks in my industry rely more on verbal communication. Personally, I always prefer to receive my communication in writing (txt or email) so that when the inevitable miscommunication occurs and they go "I never said that" I throw it back in their face using their own words.

If you want to communicate something shady and cover your ass if it goes bad on you, telephone is the way to go.
You're right. This IS a generational thing. Younger generations are more often focused on covering their asses, being able to say "I told you so", making sure they are not "disrespected", and in general putting themselves first.
Older people (usually even older than me) were brought up in a business and personal world where good manners and etiquette require one to try to make the other person feel as if they are the most important person in the room. They generally try to help others first and if a mistake were made, they often are the first to say "I must have misunderstood", while others are busy scanning email to push in their faces with an "I told you so".
Obviously, this is a huge over generalization, but I see this type of attitude everywhere these days and often feel myself being dragged down into it. The office, the highway, the supermarket, the sidewalk, the parking lot. It's rough out there!  I am old enough to remember a kinder world. And one where if you made a mistake you weren't afraid to own up to it because others would want to help you fix it, not throw you under the bus.
It is painfully obvious when the emails we receive exist to cover your ass instead of to actually try to accomplish something. And it sets off a chain of defensive behavior that kills any sort of  comradarie that may have been possible. So maybe just focus on communicating, whatever the form, rather than waiting for a "gotcha moment" so you can burn someone else. Who the fuck cares whose fault it was?  Just get it done! 
/rant over

Who cares?  That's a great question - the reason CYA exists is because people really, really do care and there are plenty of people who care enough to push blame where it shouldn't go.

I will gladly own my mistakes. I will not own your mistakes, particularly if they were entirely due to incompetence/negligence, while you attempt to pass the blame on me.

Dancin'Dog

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2016, 10:27:42 PM »
In what capacity?  When my coworkers attempt to call me instead of email me, I want to punch them in the throat.  And if it's actually important, then having it in writing is even more important.
I think this is a generational thing, older folks in my industry rely more on verbal communication. Personally, I always prefer to receive my communication in writing (txt or email) so that when the inevitable miscommunication occurs and they go "I never said that" I throw it back in their face using their own words.

If you want to communicate something shady and cover your ass if it goes bad on you, telephone is the way to go.
You're right. This IS a generational thing. Younger generations are more often focused on covering their asses, being able to say "I told you so", making sure they are not "disrespected", and in general putting themselves first.
Older people (usually even older than me) were brought up in a business and personal world where good manners and etiquette require one to try to make the other person feel as if they are the most important person in the room. They generally try to help others first and if a mistake were made, they often are the first to say "I must have misunderstood", while others are busy scanning email to push in their faces with an "I told you so".
Obviously, this is a huge over generalization, but I see this type of attitude everywhere these days and often feel myself being dragged down into it. The office, the highway, the supermarket, the sidewalk, the parking lot. It's rough out there!  I am old enough to remember a kinder world. And one where if you made a mistake you weren't afraid to own up to it because others would want to help you fix it, not throw you under the bus.
It is painfully obvious when the emails we receive exist to cover your ass instead of to actually try to accomplish something. And it sets off a chain of defensive behavior that kills any sort of  comradarie that may have been possible. So maybe just focus on communicating, whatever the form, rather than waiting for a "gotcha moment" so you can burn someone else. Who the fuck cares whose fault it was?  Just get it done! 
/rant over


Great post.  A bit of ranting, but a lot of truth.

People need to know how to speak and how to write, and which is more appropriate for the type of message they want to convey. 

A song is only a poem, unless it is sung. 


pbkmaine

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #39 on: March 25, 2016, 11:44:49 PM »
I was a senior manager at a Big 4 accounting firm and used emails whenever possible because they provided documentation. I have also found group emails much more productive than meetings. Are there times  when you need to meet face to face? Yes, of course.

lemanfan

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Re: Basic Communication Skills
« Reply #40 on: March 26, 2016, 12:17:44 AM »
I used to be an "e-mail everything" kind of guy, but these days I in many cases prefer phone or face-to-face for the reasons stated above.  And experience tells me more and more how bad it is with multiple recipients most times.

But what really REALLY bugs me these days is people sending important stuff on Facebook messages.  Not stored, not searchable, lost in the continuous flow of "nicotine for the mind" that Facebook is. Often I handle those by either telling the sender directly that "for important stuff, call or e-mail" or I just ignore it and when they ask again I say "sorry, Facebook is not the best way to reach me".

Luckily I've managed to keep most of my professional communication out of Facebook so far.