Author Topic: Average net worth by age group since 1983 (NYT)  (Read 12355 times)

Justin234

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Average net worth by age group since 1983 (NYT)
« on: March 15, 2013, 11:15:01 AM »
Anyone see the article at the NYT about wealth generation lagging in younger generations?
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/15/business/younger-generations-lag-parents-in-wealth-building.html

Quote
WASHINGTON — Pearl Brady has a stable job with good benefits and holds two degrees, a bachelor’s and a master’s. But despite her best efforts, she has no savings, and worries that it will be years before she manages to start putting away money for a house, children and eventually retirement.

 “I’m in that extremely nervous category,” said Ms. Brady, 28, a Brooklynite who works for a union. “I know how much money I’m going to be making for the near term. I hope in my 30s and 40s to be able to save, but I have no idea how. It’s scary.”

Ms. Brady has plenty of company. A new study from the Urban Institute finds that Ms. Brady and her peers up to roughly age 40 have accrued less wealth than their parents did at the same age, even as the average wealth of Americans has doubled over the last quarter-century.

There are a lot of entrenched ideas about retirement in the article, and it barely touches on spending (as though cost of living were a constant and not something you can cut), but one thing the examples drive home is the huge burden of student debt, and how much of an impediment it can be towards building a stache. It is a crime to let young kids go off to college without a clear idea of what this dept will actually mean.

One graph, shows average adjusted net worth by age group since 1983. Almost every group has gone down in recent years. What I think would be really interesting is to see a graph of spending tied to net worth. Perhaps an annual spending-to-net worth ratio.

I initially felt a little bad that I'm below average for my age group, but I have a plan for quitting my job and going independent in a year, and the potential for retirement in about 7-8 years. I think this is pretty feasible (and relies on my own business, not on the availability of jobs, which is another challenge for the people in the article). So I don't mind starting behind if I can ramp up quickly (thanks in large part to what I've learned here). Thank god I worked through college though.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 11:17:47 AM by Andrew Justin »

arebelspy

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Re: Average net worth by age group since 1983 (NYT)
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2013, 12:23:08 PM »
All the more reason to be Mustachian.

Don't buy into mindless consumerism and don't do stupid things with money (like pay credit card interest, finance a giant car that gets poor MPG, etc.).  Avoid those two things and most people would still come out just fine, IMO.
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Southern Stashian

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Re: Average net worth by age group since 1983 (NYT)
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2013, 03:54:22 PM »
We live in the "Era of Entitlement" where people believe that just because they have a degree or large tuition that they should be guaranteed a certain level of income and quality of life coming fresh out of school or into well into their careers, hence the "I have a xxxxx degree and spent $xxx,xxx on my education so I should be able to ...".

The problem is that nowadays people cant deal with adversity, and when they have to they focus their energy on everything working against them vs making the most of every situation, working hard and smart and being accountable for their actions. Older generations, while living in different times never had the level of consumerism and "poor me" attitude that our generation has had. How else would you explain a generations level of wealth doubling with a savings rate less than their parents had at the same age 25 years prior?

A prime example of a generations lack of accountability - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/13/megan-thode-lehigh-university-lawsuit_n_2671739.html


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« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 04:15:54 PM by Southern Stashian »

mm31

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Re: Average net worth by age group since 1983 (NYT)
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2013, 04:23:46 PM »
Quote
What I think would be really interesting is to see a graph of spending tied to net worth. Perhaps an annual spending-to-net worth ratio.

Agreed, that would be fantastic to see. It would have to be broken down by location, though.

arebelspy

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Re: Average net worth by age group since 1983 (NYT)
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2013, 05:11:00 PM »
Quote
What I think would be really interesting is to see a graph of spending tied to net worth. Perhaps an annual spending-to-net worth ratio.

Agreed, that would be fantastic to see. It would have to be broken down by location, though.

Or make it a percentage, so location didn't matter nearly as much (I.e. you spend more in CA than OK, but make more as well.)
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

Justin234

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Re: Average net worth by age group since 1983 (NYT)
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2013, 05:37:17 PM »
We live in the "Era of Entitlement" where people believe that just because they have a degree or large tuition that they should be guaranteed a certain level of income and quality of life coming fresh out of school or into well into their careers, hence the "I have a xxxxx degree and spent $xxx,xxx on my education so I should be able to ...".

The people quoted in the article do not sound entitled to me. They have jobs. They are concerned about their future. They could probably benefit from a visit to the MMM blog to rethink their spending and priorities, but I don't hear anyone saying that they should be guaranteed anything. People in previous generations went to college and expected jobs when they graduated. The US economy was thriving in the 50s and 60s and jobs were available. Now people follow a similar path, go to college and expect jobs when they graduate (albeit paying a much higher relative tuition). Is this what you call entitlement?

The problem is that nowadays people cant deal with adversity, and when they have to they focus their energy on everything working against them vs making the most of every situation, working hard and smart and being accountable for their actions. Older generations, while living in different times never had the level of consumerism and "poor me" attitude that our generation has had.

So every generation before us pulled themselves up by their bootstraps?

How else would you explain a generations level of wealth doubling with a savings rate less than their parents had at the same age 25 years prior?

I am not sure I understand which generation you are comparing, but in general, of the trend, I can think of a lot of different explanations of the generational differences. There have been huge changes in the system of higher education in this country over the last few decades. Huge changes in the economy. Globalization. Increased income inequality. I would have to see a lot more evidence before I was convinced that differences between generation are due to "attitude".

A prime example of a generations lack of accountability - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/13/megan-thode-lehigh-university-lawsuit_n_2671739.html

I don't see why one person's actions should be taken as representative of an entire generation's.

sheepstache

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Re: Average net worth by age group since 1983 (NYT)
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2013, 07:10:22 PM »
Atlantic articles rarely venture beyond five paragraphs now, so this article is not in-depth enough to merit interest, but it does have a couple of graphs in addition to the nytimes one.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/03/why-twenty-somethings-arent-doomed-to-be-poor-but-thirty-somethings-might-be/274058/

Basically the article is saying 20 somethings are better off than 30 somethings because 20 somethings have more time and almost none of them bought at the peak of the housing boom like many in their thirties did.

Southern Stashian

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Re: Average net worth by age group since 1983 (NYT)
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2013, 07:16:46 PM »
I understand your points Andrew. But when I see quotes from the article saying the following it seems like entitlement to me:

"Looking forward, she said, it seemed hard to imagine building a nest egg. “Realistically, my income will go up, but not at a rate that’s going to match my expenses,” Ms. Brady said. “I feel like every step forward I take, it’s three steps back.”

and

"Chuck Ross, 31, has a master’s in economics and at one point built up a $12,000 nest egg from investing. But he lives in Wichita, Kan., where jobs in his field are few. He works at a large chain restaurant and is struggling with $40,000 in student loans. “My dad works for himself,” he said. “He’s always joking about how he’ll work until he dies. We laugh, but for me, that’s becoming more and more of a thought.”

--- "Income thats not going to match my expenses" and "... how my dad jokes about working until he dies and now thats what I'm thinking." coming from someone with a masters in economics seems like terms of entitlement to me. How about re-phrasing it to "... I'll match my expenses to my current income" and "I'll apply my education and work harder so my fathers reality doesn't become mine" and stop the complainypants "poor me, cant make it" mentality.

--- The economy has never had as many opportunities for "outside the box" thinking people and entrepreneurs (much more now than the 50's and 60's) who want it more than the next guy. But when you put all your eggs in one tuition / degree / career basket nowadays you are doomed for failure if you cant afford to be flexible with your expectations.

--- The doubling of wealth between generations quote came directly from the article:

"Ms. Brady has plenty of company. A new study from the Urban Institute finds that Ms. Brady and her peers up to roughly age 40 have accrued less wealth than their parents did at the same age, even as the average wealth of Americans has doubled over the last quarter-century.

--- The reference of the girl suing the college over her grades also references a few more people doing the same as her. Point is that frivolous lawsuits like this are the norm nowadays for people who put out the minimal effort and want the maximum return and will put out their effort to sue vs doing what they should have all along - working a little harder and being flexible. Yes, there have been people across all generations with this same mindset but todays generation takes that to a whole new level.

--- IMO, I can respect the grit and grind of our aging generation and the way that they found ways to make it work without complaining, suing and working the system. Todays generation focus on comments like:

“I’m in that extremely nervous category,” said Ms. Brady, 28, a Brooklynite who works for a union. “I know how much money I’m going to be making for the near term. I hope in my 30s and 40s to be able to save, but I have no idea how. It’s scary.”

--- ... this coming from someone who has a masters and bachelors degree, a stable job with a union and good benefits but cant save a dime and has $500 per month in CC debt. Pretty obvious whats wrong if you ask me - needs to get her head out of her a$$ and stop making excuses for herself ....


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« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 07:32:31 PM by Southern Stashian »

EMP

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Re: Average net worth by age group since 1983 (NYT)
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2013, 08:12:33 PM »
The income stats for Gen X are comparable to those of the Lost Generation. Looks like we're just doomed to keep repeating history.

mm31

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Re: Average net worth by age group since 1983 (NYT)
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2013, 01:04:20 AM »
Quote
“I’m in that extremely nervous category,” said Ms. Brady, 28, a Brooklynite who works for a union. “I know how much money I’m going to be making for the near term. I hope in my 30s and 40s to be able to save, but I have no idea how. It’s scary.”

--- ... this coming from someone who has a masters and bachelors degree, a stable job with a union and good benefits but cant save a dime and has $500 per month in CC debt. Pretty obvious whats wrong if you ask me - needs to get her head out of her a$$ and stop making excuses for herself ....

Sounds like she's ignorant and stressed to me, not entitled. Possession of degrees is not a guarantee that you will make sound financial decisions. There's only 1 way to save money, it's to spend less than you make. I hope she and many others figure it out so that they're not paying CC bills well into their 70s.

Southern Stashian

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Re: Average net worth by age group since 1983 (NYT)
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2013, 07:30:29 AM »
Quote
“I’m in that extremely nervous category,” said Ms. Brady, 28, a Brooklynite who works for a union. “I know how much money I’m going to be making for the near term. I hope in my 30s and 40s to be able to save, but I have no idea how. It’s scary.”

--- ... this coming from someone who has a masters and bachelors degree, a stable job with a union and good benefits but cant save a dime and has $500 per month in CC debt. Pretty obvious whats wrong if you ask me - needs to get her head out of her a$$ and stop making excuses for herself ....

Sounds like she's ignorant and stressed to me, not entitled. Possession of degrees is not a guarantee that you will make sound financial decisions. There's only 1 way to save money, it's to spend less than you make. I hope she and many others figure it out so that they're not paying CC bills well into their 70s.

I hear you mm31. I tend to be very passionate when it comes to things, especially with those who constantly claim not being able to make it and the excuses that they give. I have always been that way in my personal and professional life, and if you know me you will always know where I am coming from - no BS here.

With my wife and I making it though so many struggles in life and to end up where we are as a family, I tend to have a very optimistic "can do" attitude vs being pessimistic and stressed about life. IMO, there is no substitute for working hard and being positive, no matter what cards are dealt to you.

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« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 07:33:53 AM by Southern Stashian »

prosaic

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Re: Average net worth by age group since 1983 (NYT)
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2013, 07:47:28 AM »
My dad and I went to the same Midwestern state university (not a flagship campus). He graduated in the mid-60s, I graduated in the early 90s.

When he went, it took about 174 hours of working minimum wage (pre-tax) to cover a year of tuition.

When I went, it took about 583 hours of working minimum wage (pre-tax) to cover a year of tuition.

Right now, it would take 1,335 hours of working minimum wage (pre-tax) to cover a year of tuition there.

(This doesn't include books, commuting expenses, room and board if you live on campus, etc. Just tuition and fees).

Student loans for college grads are a huge issue for people who were in college by the mid-1990s. I barely escaped without them (scholarships, financial aid, jobs).

GuitarStv

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Re: Average net worth by age group since 1983 (NYT)
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2013, 06:36:52 AM »

"Ms. Brady has plenty of company. A new study from the Urban Institute finds that Ms. Brady and her peers up to roughly age 40 have accrued less wealth than their parents did at the same age, even as the average wealth of Americans has doubled over the last quarter-century.


That is quite a misleading statement.

Average wealth has little to do with the change in wealth of the average person unfortunately.  The highest incomes have seen the largest gains over the past 40 or so years.  The median and below incomes have been relatively stagnant or even reduced (factoring in inflation).

chucklesmcgee

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Re: Average net worth by age group since 1983 (NYT)
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2013, 08:13:53 AM »

"Ms. Brady has plenty of company. A new study from the Urban Institute finds that Ms. Brady and her peers up to roughly age 40 have accrued less wealth than their parents did at the same age, even as the average wealth of Americans has doubled over the last quarter-century.


That is quite a misleading statement.

Average wealth has little to do with the change in wealth of the average person unfortunately.  The highest incomes have seen the largest gains over the past 40 or so years.  The median and below incomes have been relatively stagnant or even reduced (factoring in inflation).

I agree. Also the NYtimes charts are for the MEAN net worths, not the medians. 50% of 65-73 year olds did NOT have more than $1,000,000 in the middle of the last decade. Medians give you a far better picture of Americans as a whole and makes the situation looks much more dismal.

YAR

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Re: Average net worth by age group since 1983 (NYT)
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2013, 08:26:59 AM »
My dad and I went to the same Midwestern state university (not a flagship campus). He graduated in the mid-60s, I graduated in the early 90s.

When he went, it took about 174 hours of working minimum wage (pre-tax) to cover a year of tuition.

When I went, it took about 583 hours of working minimum wage (pre-tax) to cover a year of tuition.

Right now, it would take 1,335 hours of working minimum wage (pre-tax) to cover a year of tuition there.

(This doesn't include books, commuting expenses, room and board if you live on campus, etc. Just tuition and fees).

Student loans for college grads are a huge issue for people who were in college by the mid-1990s. I barely escaped without them (scholarships, financial aid, jobs).

My son and I have a story similar to you and your father's. We both attended the same MAC school. I graduated in 1989, my son graduates this year.

it took approx 254 hours at minimum wage to pay for a year of undergrad tuition when I attended.
it took approx 1369 hours at minimum wage to pay for a year of undergrad tuition for my son.

Scary cost/price increases there.

BTW, I really like that metric (hours @ minimum wage)

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!