Available Tax Deferred Space

[rpr]

How much Federal tax deferred space do you have access to as an individual ? If you are a couple, divide by two to get the value per person.

Tax deferred space includes
-- 401k, 403b, 457b
-- Traditional deductible IRA
-- HSA
-- any of your tax-deferred contributions to other pension plans

Do not include Roth IRAs, after tax annuities etc.

Do not include any employer contribution.

My apologies for the US centric nature of this poll.

Edit to add: Part of the motivation behind this poll came from the following post:

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/america's-high-earning-'poor'/msg859132/#msg859132

The above post contained the following statement:

Paying that much on low six figures is embarrassing. DW and I combine for 130+ this year and will probably pay <4k in fed/state taxes after all our investment deductions. We have a few advantages that not all do, but not that much...

I assumed that a big part of the deductions came from tax deferrals. My initial feeling was that having this much tax deferred room was fairly uncommon. Looking at the results so far, it appears that there is a significant number among MMM responders who have as a couple may have tax deferred space that exceeds 50K.

[beltim]

I'd suggest more granularity in the poll.  I know a number of people who have 0 tax deferred space (typically people who are paid stipends, which aren't considered wages and makes them ineligible to contribute to retirement accounts), or who only have tax deferred space through a spousal IRA.

[RWD]

$40-43k+ for my wife (mandatory retirement plan, 403b, 457) and $18k for myself (401k). Works out to around $30k per person. The mandatory retirement plan for my wife is a fixed percentage contribution so it will go up if she gets raises. We're probably eligible for traditional IRAs as well, but it's cutting it close.

[WYOGO]

Wish I had more...

[zephyr911]

IRAs $11K
My TSP $18K
DW SIMPLE IRA $12.5K

Total: $41,500

Maxing out the first two, but she just got access to SIMPLE and is hesitant to overcommit. I talked her up to 10% (~$4K/yr), so our total participation is about $33K, or ~80%.

[BarkyardBQ]

DW: 457, 403, HSA, IRA
ME: 457, 403, IRA

[JZinCO]

Let's see if I can figure this out..
401(a) , HSA, 457, 403(b)/401(k)/solo401(k), IRA

So that is 8% salary + 3350 + 18,000 + 18,000 (+ employer [me] contribution on solo 401(k)) + 5500 = more than my gross income

[irishbear99]

My tax deferred space comes from the TSP...$18k/year. I do contribute to my pension, which is non-taxable (the contribution, not the pension), but that's only 0.08% of my salary and equals well less than $1k/year. My husband and I have foregone the tax deferment of traditional IRAs in favor of Roth. The tax savings would really help us now, but tax diversity in our retirement is important.

[rpr]

I'd suggest more granularity in the poll.  I know a number of people who have 0 tax deferred space (typically people who are paid stipends, which aren't considered wages and makes them ineligible to contribute to retirement accounts), or who only have tax deferred space through a spousal IRA.

beltim -- thank you for this suggestion. Indeed I was considering making it more granular but decided against. My objective behind just the four options was the following:--

<10K:  access to no plans or only an IRA
10K to 25K: IRA + one 401k plan
25K to 50K: IRA + two plans (401k, 403b, 457b etc)
> 50K: access to more than two plans or possibly self employed

Hope that makes sense.

[runningthroughFIRE]

I'd suggest more granularity in the poll.  I know a number of people who have 0 tax deferred space (typically people who are paid stipends, which aren't considered wages and makes them ineligible to contribute to retirement accounts), or who only have tax deferred space through a spousal IRA.

beltim -- thank you for this suggestion. Indeed I was considering making it more granular but decided against. My objective behind just the four options was the following:--

<10K:  access to no plans or only an IRA
10K to 25K: IRA + one 401k plan
25K to 50K: IRA + two plans (401k, 403b, 457b etc)
> 50K: access to more than two plans or possibly self employed

Hope that makes sense.

If you wanted to know what the amounts and types of plans people have access to, why not just ask that?  This is an interesting proxy in its own right, but can occasionally be misleading for what you wanted to know.  I voted based off my options in 2016, since they will be changing, and these changes are going to affect me long-term.  I'll have access to a 401(k), IRA, and HSA.  Maxing all 3 puts me at just over 25K.

[beltim]

I'd suggest more granularity in the poll.  I know a number of people who have 0 tax deferred space (typically people who are paid stipends, which aren't considered wages and makes them ineligible to contribute to retirement accounts), or who only have tax deferred space through a spousal IRA.

beltim -- thank you for this suggestion. Indeed I was considering making it more granular but decided against. My objective behind just the four options was the following:--

<10K:  access to no plans or only an IRA
10K to 25K: IRA + one 401k plan
25K to 50K: IRA + two plans (401k, 403b, 457b etc)
> 50K: access to more than two plans or possibly self employed

Hope that makes sense.

It definitely makes sense.  The options just limit the conclusions you can draw from the results.  For example, we know that >20% of working Americans don't have access to a retirement plan of any type (http://www.americanbenefitscouncil.org/pub/e613e1b6-f57b-1368-c1fb-966598903769) so if option 1 gets much less than 20% of the vote we know that the sampling here is off.  I'd be interested to see how many people don't have any access at all, but perhaps I'm the only one interested in that.

[BBub]

Currently in a 2 person hhld & we can put away about $86k/yr into qualified accts.

Me
$53k: 401k + match + post tax (megabackdoor)
$5.5k: Backdoor Roth

DW
$22k: 401k + match
$5.5k: Backdoor Roth

DW's plan also allows post-tax contributions, but her plan admin is too incompetent to understand how to administer it.  Small, local company handles the plan & her company is relatively young w/ inexperienced HR.  I read the plan doc & the plan definitely allows it, but they don't understand it.  I haven't pushed the issue because we haven't yet desired to fill up all of this space. 

All in, we can put away about $86k/yr into qualified accts under the current setup.  We may actually do this in 2016.  If I could get DW's company to understand the mega-backdoor it would be more like $117k.

EDIT: looking at the OP, I guess I shouldn't include the matches, backdoor roth's, etc.  Using those guidelines our availability is $36k for the two 401k's.  But where's the fun in that?

[RWD]

Currently in a 2 person hhld & we can put away about $86k/yr into tax deferred accts.

Me
$53k: 401k + match + post tax (megabackdoor)
$5.5k: Backdoor Roth

DW
$22k: 401k + match
$5.5k: Backdoor Roth

DW's plan also allows post-tax contributions, but her plan admin is too incompetent to understand how to administer it.  Small, local company handles the plan & her company is relatively young w/ inexperienced HR.  I read the plan doc & the plan definitely allows it, but they don't understand it.  I haven't pushed the issue because we haven't yet desired to fill up all of this space. 

All in, we can put away about $86k/yr tax deferred under the current setup.  We may actually do this in 2016.  If I could get DW's company to understand the mega-backdoor it would be more like $117k.

The directions said to exclude Roth/After-Tax and employer matching.

[BBub]

Yeah I see that.  Added an edit to my post to account for those silly instructions.

[rpr]

Yeah I see that.  Added an edit to my post to account for those silly instructions.

:) Thank you!

[JLee]

Probably the same as a lot of other single-filers...$18k 401k, $5500 IRA, $3350 HSA. $26,850.

If I am missing something, let me know. :D

[Vilgan]

I assume that profit sharing while self employed still counts so marked 50k+. Would otherwise just have the 18k employee deferral.

[rpr]

It definitely makes sense.  The options just limit the conclusions you can draw from the results.  For example, we know that >20% of working Americans don't have access to a retirement plan of any type (http://www.americanbenefitscouncil.org/pub/e613e1b6-f57b-1368-c1fb-966598903769) so if option 1 gets much less than 20% of the vote we know that the sampling here is off.  I'd be interested to see how many people don't have any access at all, but perhaps I'm the only one interested in that.

beltim: The point about sampling is a good one. Given that this is MMM, I most certainly expect the respondents on this forum and this poll to be skewed higher. That is what the limited results so far seem to be indicating. 

[rpr]

I assume that profit sharing while self employed still counts so marked 50k+. Would otherwise just have the 18k employee deferral.

Vilgan: That is what I expected. Thank you for participating.

[Tabaxus]

21.5k from single HSA + 401(k).  Spouse is a student so (a) nothing there for contributions and (b) school-provided insurance makes much more sense for spouse under spouse's circumstances than coming onto my insurance and getting the family HSA deduction.  Income is too high for deductible IRA contributions (we do backdoor Roths, but excluded those based on directions).

Income is over $200k, so the lack of tax deferred space sucks (but it's a good problem to have, obviously).

[Rural]

More than my gross salary, which is also our only income. So...


Mandatory pension (a percent of salary), 403b, 457k, HSA, IRA. Also we're both on my HDHP insurance, so the HSA limit is $6650.


I've not done an IRA at all because no money left for it.

[Dicey]

This poll makes my head hurt. I think I understand what the question is, but I'm fuzzy on the relevance. I'm just commenting to say that if you have the same reaction, don't despair. It's still possible to reach FI and RE even if your math skills aren't facile enough to grasp this easily.

And yeah, this comment may make me sound like a dope, but if so, at least I'm a happily FIRE'd one...