AUSTRALIA Will you download the COVIDsafe app?

[middo]

Since the Australian Federal Government has released its COVIDsafe tracking app, will you be downloading it?  I will, as I am more concerned about how much data google and facebook have on me than any data breaches from this app.  What about other Australians?

[LonerMatt]

Initially I was in a similar mindset to you: my data is shared between large orgs who have abused and on-sold it and if this app plays a role in rolling back quarantine faster I'm quite happy to download it.

Since then the worriers in my life have come out against it so now I'm unsure. Perhaps I'll let the first week roll by and, if there are not pressing issues after a week, dl it. I know most serious data privacy stuff won't pop up after a week, but some of the smaller problems may.

[Kyle Schuant]

No.

I am more concerned about incompetence than malice, as incompetence is far more common in government. The government's history with Centrelink and the 2016 online census, along with many other examples, shows they are just not very good at making software. At best it will lead to multiple false positives.

But malice is still a possibility. The government claims none of the data is accessible by other agencies, etc. However, a law passed two years ago states that the government can demand any software maker put in a secret back door - and their request and the subsequent work and back door are all national secrets. In other words, they have specifically told us that when they say "it's secure", they can't be trusted.


Nonetheless, incompetence remains the most likely scenario.

[Bloop Bloop]

I'll happily download it if it will make any difference in how quickly we can end lockdown. My state has said they stubbornly won't do anything till 11 May  so in that case I have little incentive to do my part.

[middo]

I'll happily download it if it will make any difference in how quickly we can end lockdown. My state has said they stubbornly won't do anything till 11 May  so in that case I have little incentive to do my part.

I'm also in Vic and I'm a bit concerned about this new outbreak at the psychiatric facility.  We really don't need another northern Tasmania in downtown Melbourne.  That would set us back at least another month.

[limeandpepper]

I was skeptical when I first heard about it but after reading more about it, it seems like it actually gathers a lot less data than most other phone apps - apparently it doesn't use GPS or collect your location data, and I was reading some reviews tonight and someone was saying it doesn't ask for heaps of permissions like other apps do, and you can control the access. I haven't decided yet, but I'm certainly more open to downloading it now after learning more about it.

[marty998]

The Government already knows everything about me. I have no issues downloading it.

I mean fuck, the geniuses behind Bumble, Tinder and Hinge already know absolutely everything about me anyway too.

The privacy horse has already bolted.

[middo]

The one thing I don't get, is why they haven't gone for the mobile phone tower data that has to be kept for 2 years anyway, and could pinpoint most of us to within a few meters at a time and place.

It's OK for terrorist stuff, but not OK to use for something that actually may kill my dad?  I am still confused by our government.

[Gremlin]

Almost certainly.  But not yet.

Whilst they have told us that source code will be released and whilst they have talked about the privacy constraints that are being put in place, neither of these two things have, as yet, happened.  When the privacy constraints are legislated and the source code publicly available (and both deliver what they say they are going to deliver), I'll be happy to have it on my phone.

[Little Aussie Battler]

I'll download it when I start leaving the house on a regular basis.

At this point I mostly go outside to exercise and I don't take my phone, so no real point.

[deborah]

As someone who spent much of my working life in computer security (both for government and industry), I'm quite taken with this app. It does everything they need, without actually tracking you. It's a clever use of bluetooth. Being a suspicious person, I'm waiting for the legislation before downloading it (just to ensure they're doing what they say they're doing with the data), but I have no qualms about it, and I know people who also worked in computer security who've already downloaded it.

I expect to download it as soon as the legislation is passed. That way, we can start to open up the country.

[givemesunshine]

I've downloaded it and will 'use' it (I'll leave it running in the background with my bluetooth on).

I (sort of) understand people have an aversion to things like this but not sure I truly understand why - I need to read more.

I entered my name and postcode in the 'registration' part of the app as well as my mobile number. It doesn't track all my movements (no GPS) and even if it did it would only see my daily walk (which I record on an exercise app anyway) and my once a week trip to the supermarket (where I scan my rewards card and pay via apple pay), plus the occasional coffee shop visit for a takeaway brew.

I'm sure if 'agencies' want to know what I'm doing, it wouldn't be too tricky for them - can't quite work out why they would and they'd be bored stupid if they did. Let's face it, my HR department, my Bank, the ATO, Medicare, Immigration (I'm a migrant - 2001) etc. all know my entire life story. Put it this way, if I ever married Keanu Reeves the tabloids would be disappointed by the lack of any kind of interesting past or salacious story. I'm deliberately dull. I'm still holding out hope for Keanu.

I'll keep and use the app whilst the crisis plays out, as it diminishes I will likely delete the app.

[deborah]

The one thing I don't get, is why they haven't gone for the mobile phone tower data that has to be kept for 2 years anyway, and could pinpoint most of us to within a few meters at a time and place.

It's OK for terrorist stuff, but not OK to use for something that actually may kill my dad?  I am still confused by our government.

Amongst other things...

There’s a lot more information in the tower data. They’d probably need extra security clearances for the health people doing the tracking. It would take a lot more work (and it would take longer and far more computing) to get the information they require out of the tower data, whereas this way it’s already there.

[alsoknownasDean]

I'll install it in a little while once any initial quirks are ironed out.

It's not like Google hasn't got that information on me already.

[happy]

I'll install it shortly. As a former health care worker I've long been frustrated by the way health care is impeded and made much more expensive by privacy concerns. I am concerned about my data, but its impossible to use a computer without giving up a lot of information these days, unless your hobby is computing and security, anreven then maybe not feasible IDK.

There's a lot of talk about protecting others, but I also have selfish motivations: I want to know if I've been in contact with someone with COVID, even if thats bad news.

[middo]

1 million downloads in 5 hours.  Up to 2 million now.  I would urge you to download it unless you have serious concerns.  The sooner done, the sooner we can have normal lives.

[Kyle Schuant]

1 million downloads in 5 hours.  Up to 2 million now.  I would urge you to download it unless you have serious concerns.  The sooner done, the sooner we can have normal lives.

First we were told that we needed to "flatten the curve" so that the health system wouldn't be overwhelmed. This was achieved in two weeks.

Next we were told that we needed to eliminate the virus entirely. This may or may not be possible, but we're pretty close - most of the new cases are coming from health authorities and government screwups, like finding someone positive at a psychiatric clinic, and not telling anyone at the clinic for a month... and another couple dozen people get infected. Still, numbers are very, very low.

Now we're told, well once we have tested 100,000 people in two weeks... because there might be asymptomatic people out there passing it on... we just don't know! Except of course, if there were then some of the people they infected would be presenting to emergency. The patients in hospital may be the tip of the iceberg, but if the tip is tiny then there can't be much iceberg. But we just don't know!

Next it'll be, "well, once 40% of people have downloaded the app... okay, 50%... no wait, 60%..."

Have you heard the term, "shifting the goalposts"?

They will remove the lockdowns when they have to. In other countries people are receiving no real welfare to assist them with the government's shutdown of their businesses. You can see why they protest the lockdowns - if I were stuck at home going hungry, I'd probably be protesting outside parliament with a rifle, too. In Australia the Commowealth government is tossing money at people, and will keep doing so until the end of September. It's no coincidence that Andrews in Victoria, his dictatorial powers are slated to end September 30th. He knows that once the Commonwealth money stops flowing, people will no longer put up with this.

The lockdowns will end when the people demand it. Not before. If you think they should end now, write to your MP.

[deborah]

I don’t see it as shifting goalposts at all. If you look at this article from a couple of weeks ago...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-13/coronavirus-greg-hunt-lockdown-social-distancing-isolation/12144576

you will note that the things you’re talking about are all mentioned or implied as necessary parts of our getting out of the lockdown. The app is a significant part of being able to respond rapidly to spikes. They have never said that we need to eliminate the virus entirely. The extra tests are part of being confident we don’t have a lot of asymptotic cases, which was already part of the first point.

Your local member is almost certainly so inundated with phone calls and emails that they’re not going to be able to respond quickly. I’ve been trying to get hold of mine for a while about something else. Your best bet is actually to get the app. You can always delete it.

[happy]

The app will dramatically reduce the time ( and cost) as well as improving effectiveness WRT contact tracing, assisting with both saving lives and livelihoods. A temporary theoretical and unproven inappropriate invasion of privacy seems a small price to pay.

We all download apps with gay abandon...they could all have some nefarious secret code but we trust that they don't. I think I trust the government with my best interest in this situation, at least a much as some unknown entity who will make a profit from me downloading some code onto my phone.

[LonerMatt]

Downloaded.

[LonerMatt]

People who think the government have the resources to actually use surveillance to the extent that, say, China, the USA or Russia do have almost no idea how under-funded, IT lite and non-communicative government departments are.

If PMC requests information from another department they do not automatically get it.

If a massive amount of data (say, passport numbers and the associated information) exists, there isn't really the capacity to do much with that.

Realistically for the spooky government scenarios most people imagine there'd need to be 10-15% more government workers with much better IT capabilities than currently exist is most departments (and only exist in incredibly low numbers in the more technical departments)

[nath]

Firstly let me just say I think Scomo and the other leaders have done a fantastic job during this crisis and they will always have my respect. If you have a chance to listen to one of his press conferences you will see how smart and switched on he really is, and without a PM like him we would be nowhere right now.

I downloaded the app and it is really simple, nothing to be scared about?
Just do it and if you come into contact with anyone with the virus and the health department can contact you to inform you , you will be very happy you have this app.
Apparently it does not track movements but even if it did, what is there to worry about being tracked when you go down the shops? You are allowed to do that...