At what point does it make sense to move out of one's parents house?

[MayDay]

So much has been said, I probably don't have much to add.

I would however like to emphasize the point that as a single woman I would not contemplate a long term relationship with a man that lived with his parent.

Yah at the end of the day this is where I am. Unless he is living with his parents because they need a live in caregiver. And even in that case, I'd probably pass because unless the parents are very near the end, hard no thanks on what my future life would look like living with and caring for my in laws.

(I'm not actually single fwiw).

I totally get all the cultural reasons. But at the end of the day I just have zero interest in dating a man who I'm not sure can/will actually pull his weight on his own. I don't know if he's a slob and mommy picks up after him, etc.

If I met a man organically and started to get to know him independently of dating him, maybe, if he was great. But I'd be looking for him to move out before it got serious (and possibly/probably before sleeping with him because ewww). But on a dating app? Hard pass.

If you live in a place where this the prevailing attitude (probably most of the US) you will seriously limit your dating pool. Of you live in a place where multigenerational living is the norm, it probably doesn't matter.

I don't see it as shallow, I see it as protecting my own interests in a patriarchal society that by and large results in man-children living at home while mommy does their laundry and changes their sheets. I'm not interested in taking the risk. I've lived without my parents for a while and strongly preferred it so am not going to waste my time on a living scenario that won't work for me. So really I'm saving us both a lot of effort in the long run, not being shallow. And I have my own money so I don't need whatever you saved living at home.

[AMandM]

we don't want any of them to move back into our house for conveinence.  We want to them to be independent, successful contributors to society.

I don't assume that living with parents equals not being independent, successful contributors to society, but apparently a lot of people do, or at least they think the risk is too high to justify the effort of pursuing a relationship.

I would however like to emphasize the point that as a single woman I would not contemplate a long term relationship with a man that lived with his parent.

I'm curious whether this applies with the sexes reversed as well.

[Fomerly known as something]

If you will allow me to introduce myself, I am a millennial who graduated college within the last decade.  A few years ago I moved back in with my parents to save money.  Within this time, I pursued an advanced degree and leveraged it to land a well-paying remote job.

Now I am thinking of moving out (again) to a lower cost of living area but am hesitant to incur additional expenses like higher rent.  It would be money I am not saving.  What are your opinions on this?

Usually, at what point does it make sense to move out of one's parent's house?

For additional context, my parents and I live in an expensive costal city with plenty of well-paying jobs.  Why I choose to keep living with them has perplexed a few friends and several dates.  I have never understood the fixation in American culture on moving out right after finishing college, especially with the high cost of living in certain metro areas.

You didn't give us much background on your personal situation, which I suppose is understandable.
Why do people move out?  When is it appropriate?

a) when your job is too far from home
b) when the lifestyle you want to live is too cramped by your parents
-- this could be dating, eating, sleeping, playing music, entertaining friends
c) when your parents kick you out for being a lazy ingrate

So, without more details on your situation, that's about all we can say.

(For me, it was simple.  a) applied the instant I graduated.)

Toque

You forgot, while you love your parents dearly and have a good relationship, living with your mom would drive you bonkers.

[charis]

I don't see anything pretentious about expecting children to move out of their parents home when they become adults.  If anything, it feels like the opposite to me.  Trying to make a go of it on a low salary or a high savings rate in a HCOL city requires grit, humbleness, and a decided lack of pretention.  It's about roommates, ramen, cheap beer/coffee, and taking advantage all the free or low cost activities that a good size city has to offer.  If I see a 30+ year old living with parents "to save money," I see someone who prefers creature comforts and a measure of dependency to getting out there.

The repeated question that the OP hasn't answered is where are you taking a date back? To your parents' house, the date's place, or waiting for marriage?

[GuitarStv]

You cannot both continue to live in your parents home and be independent . . . so when this starts to bother you, move out.

[ChickenStash]

<snip>

I would however like to emphasize the point that as a single woman I would not contemplate a long term relationship with a man that lived with his parent.

I'm curious whether this applies with the sexes reversed as well.

Speaking for myself, as a single man I would see it as a gigantic caution flag if I was aiming for a serious relationship with a woman and found out she lived with her parent(s). I wouldn't say it was an automatic No but it would require further details.

[PDXTabs]

So much has been said, I probably don't have much to add.

I would however like to emphasize the point that as a single woman I would not contemplate a long term relationship with a man that lived with his parent.

Yah at the end of the day this is where I am....

Not to derail the thread too much, but what would you think hypothetically of someone that lived with family in one place (ex: USA) and alone in some other country (ex: Chile) and split their time between the two homes? Is it different for cousins/siblings than parents?

I don't see it as shallow, I see it as protecting my own interests in a patriarchal society that by and large results in man-children living at home while mommy does their laundry and changes their sheets.

Is that a thing? Because I've been doing my own laundry since I was in middle school and so have my children.

[MayDay]

So much has been said, I probably don't have much to add.

I would however like to emphasize the point that as a single woman I would not contemplate a long term relationship with a man that lived with his parent.

Yah at the end of the day this is where I am....

Not to derail the thread too much, but what would you think hypothetically of someone that lived with family in one place (ex: USA) and alone in some other country (ex: Chile) and split their time between the two homes? Is it different for cousins/siblings than parents?

I don't see it as shallow, I see it as protecting my own interests in a patriarchal society that by and large results in man-children living at home while mommy does their laundry and changes their sheets.

Is that a thing? Because I've been doing my own laundry since I was in middle school and so have my children.

#1: Totally depends on the circumstances. I can imagine everything from living and working primarily in Chile, and using parents' house as a home base while in the US, to..... I don't even know what, but the opposite.

#2. Laundry is a random example. Pick whatever you want.  There are hundreds of little things like that that IMO adults need to learn to do for themselves. Cleaning the house, dealing with service and utility providers, paying said bills, all the outdoor maintenance, dealing with house repairs like appliance issues, dealing with either buying a house or a landlord, grocery shopping, meal planning, making sure you have household necessities, etc etc etc.

[PDXTabs]

Laundry is a random example. Pick whatever you want.  There are hundreds of little things like that that IMO adults need to learn to do for themselves. Cleaning the house, dealing with service and utility providers, paying said bills, all the outdoor maintenance, dealing with house repairs like appliance issues, dealing with either buying a house or a landlord, grocery shopping, meal planning, making sure you have household necessities, etc etc etc.

I completely agree. Also, in my experience, if you meet someone away at college it is entirely possible to find a non-functional romantic partner. I also, as a guy, don't want that.

[iris lily]

For alternate examples:

 I married a man who lived “at home” into his early 30’s.

He lived on the family farm and helped there. He also had a full time professional job. That country space afforded him room—outbuildings and tools—to pursue his hobbies, fixing up cars and woodworking. While living there he bought 3 rental properties and fixed them up, and he owned two of them free and clear when he went to grad school where I met him.

Now he can fix anything, build anything. He was, what we called back then, a late bloomer socially. He used his extra money to take big trips to Europe, Australia, etc. So he was active but not very smooth with the ladies.

He was capable of all of that, but the thing that most impressed me when we were dating was every evening he cooked a complete meal, set the table, ate it, and did the dishes. Me as a single person —I was forging out of the refrigerator and eating in front of the TV. I was  impressed with his civilized approach to life.

In another example, our single friend will retire this year with net  worth of $2 million. He went back to live with his parents for a couple of years in his 30’s to finish college and to save money for a house.

That whole business of owning real estate without a mortgage served us all well. I know that is not necessarily the financially prudent thing to do especially now,  but back then interest  rates were high.

[minority_finance_mo]

If you will allow me to introduce myself, I am a millennial who graduated college within the last decade.  A few years ago I moved back in with my parents to save money.  Within this time, I pursued an advanced degree and leveraged it to land a well-paying remote job.

Now I am thinking of moving out (again) to a lower cost of living area but am hesitant to incur additional expenses like higher rent.  It would be money I am not saving.  What are your opinions on this?

Usually, at what point does it make sense to move out of one's parent's house?

For additional context, my parents and I live in an expensive costal city with plenty of well-paying jobs.  Why I choose to keep living with them has perplexed a few friends and several dates.  I have never understood the fixation in American culture on moving out right after finishing college, especially with the high cost of living in certain metro areas.

I've highlighted a part of your original post, OP, which resonated with me, as I was in a similar boat not too long ago.

For context, I'm in my late 20's living in the US and moved out a year ago. I come from a South Asian household, so we share a fair bit in common.

What I found was the math will never support you moving out - that's obvious. And your cultural preferences are more important than what the "American culture" prefers.

That said, you mentioned friends and dating, and I will say that if you're planning on dating those outside your culture, this is likely going to be a deal-breaker for most. There are some American men/women that will date you seriously while you're living at home, but my experience has been most don't prefer that at all. And when/if things become serious with someone, this may ultimately be a sticking point.

I found (as you're probably finding) the decision is less a financial one and more a matter of your preferences and goals. If you think you're going to want to pursue relationships with those outside your culture, you'll likely have to make some tough choices.

[wageslave23]

If you will allow me to introduce myself, I am a millennial who graduated college within the last decade.  A few years ago I moved back in with my parents to save money.  Within this time, I pursued an advanced degree and leveraged it to land a well-paying remote job.

Now I am thinking of moving out (again) to a lower cost of living area but am hesitant to incur additional expenses like higher rent.  It would be money I am not saving.  What are your opinions on this?

Usually, at what point does it make sense to move out of one's parent's house?

For additional context, my parents and I live in an expensive costal city with plenty of well-paying jobs.  Why I choose to keep living with them has perplexed a few friends and several dates.  I have never understood the fixation in American culture on moving out right after finishing college, especially with the high cost of living in certain metro areas.

I've highlighted a part of your original post, OP, which resonated with me, as I was in a similar boat not too long ago.

For context, I'm in my late 20's living in the US and moved out a year ago. I come from a South Asian household, so we share a fair bit in common.

What I found was the math will never support you moving out - that's obvious. And your cultural preferences are more important than what the "American culture" prefers.

That said, you mentioned friends and dating, and I will say that if you're planning on dating those outside your culture, this is likely going to be a deal-breaker for most. There are some American men/women that will date you seriously while you're living at home, but my experience has been most don't prefer that at all. And when/if things become serious with someone, this may ultimately be a sticking point.

I found (as you're probably finding) the decision is less a financial one and more a matter of your preferences and goals. If you think you're going to want to pursue relationships with those outside your culture, you'll likely have to make some tough choices.

Very well said.

[BicycleB]

If you will allow me to introduce myself, I am a millennial who graduated college within the last decade.  A few years ago I moved back in with my parents to save money.  Within this time, I pursued an advanced degree and leveraged it to land a well-paying remote job.

Now I am thinking of moving out (again) to a lower cost of living area but am hesitant to incur additional expenses like higher rent.  It would be money I am not saving.  What are your opinions on this?

Usually, at what point does it make sense to move out of one's parent's house?

For additional context, my parents and I live in an expensive costal city with plenty of well-paying jobs.  Why I choose to keep living with them has perplexed a few friends and several dates.  I have never understood the fixation in American culture on moving out right after finishing college, especially with the high cost of living in certain metro areas.

I've highlighted a part of your original post, OP, which resonated with me, as I was in a similar boat not too long ago.

For context, I'm in my late 20's living in the US and moved out a year ago. I come from a South Asian household, so we share a fair bit in common.

What I found was the math will never support you moving out - that's obvious. And your cultural preferences are more important than what the "American culture" prefers.

That said, you mentioned friends and dating, and I will say that if you're planning on dating those outside your culture, this is likely going to be a deal-breaker for most. There are some American men/women that will date you seriously while you're living at home, but my experience has been most don't prefer that at all. And when/if things become serious with someone, this may ultimately be a sticking point.

I found (as you're probably finding) the decision is less a financial one and more a matter of your preferences and goals. If you think you're going to want to pursue relationships with those outside your culture, you'll likely have to make some tough choices.

OP, more than one poster seems to have assumed you are from an Asian background, but I didn't see any reference to that in your posts. Did I miss that?

My perception from reading is that you're from the US, but are still more uncertain about social mores than some. In other words the uncertainty is perhaps a personal matter, not from a difference in cultural background. As someone who myself has been sometimes uncertain or unaware of social mores, often to the point of being labeled autistic, I can relate to this. I apologize though if I misread the situation!

Personally I think this thread has given many answers - a set saying of course move out, and a set saying it depends - that are all excellent to a point. Still there are subtleties that could differ if your personality is unusual, especially if you're someone like me who doesn't read social cues in an average way. In case you're similar:

1. You're looking for a partner/mate/etc - whether you move out depends on who you're looking for. Numerous answers from thoughtful women, among others, correctly show that many will screen you out for living at home. A few might accept you, including just the right person for you - but you probably have to explain yourself just right to succeed if you stay at home. Moving out gives you more chances, and more leeway.

2. You could have problems in either case but they'll be different problems!
a. If you stay home, you'll:
    i.  have fewer choices to make because most will have already rejected you.
    ii. benefit because some of the rejecters will be pretentious people who were wrong for you anyway; that's good news.
    iii. lose because some of the rejecters will be possible real mates, and you'll miss them, maybe forever or to the point of never finding someone
    iv. perhaps need to hustle or extend yourself in some way to reach the right person who was screening you out
    v. perhaps need to screen out weird people who accept you as is, but they have their own problems that end up making them a bad mate for you
    vi. perhaps find that the right person doesn't screen you out, but you need to explain yourself clearly on your reasons

b. If you leave, you'll:
    i. Pay more and maybe get nothing for it
    ii. Still find dating to be confusing, tricky and difficult unless your skills are much better than mine
    iii. Be of interest to a larger number of "bad" dates as described in a.v, needing you to screen them out sometimes
    iv. An example of b.iii is you could find someone who wants to take advantage of you and your space

All that said, in either case, you have a chance to find someone wonderful. Your odds are much better in case b, but they're nonzero in each case. Both cases still require you to reach out, be an increasingly good/active person, socialize, make decisions, and most of all express your individual self to find the rare person who really suits you.

Another benefit of moving it is that you may find someone who's not interested in something permanent, but if you give them a chance, they'll expand your life by spending some quality time at home with you. That may not be part of your plan, but sometimes valuable growth occurs if you explore the possibilities when they occur. You won't see them until you move ahead and discover what happens.

That said, if you're secretly confident of what's right for you, following your gut is a sure way to stay true to yourself. Your current self, at least. Good luck to you, whatever you decide.

[DadJokes]

Posting to follow, as a lot of other posters have put it more eloquently than I could have.

I will add that I moved out of my parents' house while I was still in high school, and I don't regret that decision in the slightest. I learned how to be independent by living on my own.

My son, unless there are extenuating circumstances, will have until about six months after college graduation to move out. I'd like to share a house with my wife and no one else at that point, and pushing the bird out of the nest is necessary for the bird to learn to fly.

[GuitarStv]

For alternate examples:

 I married a man who lived “at home” into his early 30’s.

He lived on the family farm and helped there. He also had a full time professional job. That country space afforded him room—outbuildings and tools—to pursue his hobbies, fixing up cars and woodworking. While living there he bought 3 rental properties and fixed them up, and he owned two of them free and clear when he went to grad school where I met him.

Now he can fix anything, build anything. He was, what we called back then, a late bloomer socially. He used his extra money to take big trips to Europe, Australia, etc. So he was active but not very smooth with the ladies.

He was capable of all of that, but the thing that most impressed me when we were dating was every evening he cooked a complete meal, set the table, ate it, and did the dishes. Me as a single person —I was forging out of the refrigerator and eating in front of the TV. I was  impressed with his civilized approach to life.

Yeah, there's a spectrum.  OP, if the above describes you . . . then by all means, keep doing what you're doing.  That's a healthy, adult way to live at home.

If on the other hand you're there for the free rent, food, and occasionally getting mom to do your laundry so you can spend extra time and money on video games in the basement and can delay dealing with real life GTFO quick.  This kind of failure to accept reality as an adult is not a good way to go.

It seems to me that the latter is more common than the former, unfortunately.

[SailingOnASmallSailboat]

For alternate examples:

 I married a man who lived “at home” into his early 30’s.

He lived on the family farm and helped there. He also had a full time professional job. That country space afforded him room—outbuildings and tools—to pursue his hobbies, fixing up cars and woodworking. While living there he bought 3 rental properties and fixed them up, and he owned two of them free and clear when he went to grad school where I met him.

Now he can fix anything, build anything. He was, what we called back then, a late bloomer socially. He used his extra money to take big trips to Europe, Australia, etc. So he was active but not very smooth with the ladies.

He was capable of all of that, but the thing that most impressed me when we were dating was every evening he cooked a complete meal, set the table, ate it, and did the dishes. Me as a single person —I was forging out of the refrigerator and eating in front of the TV. I was  impressed with his civilized approach to life.

Yeah, there's a spectrum.  OP, if the above describes you . . . then by all means, keep doing what you're doing.  That's a healthy, adult way to live at home.

If on the other hand you're there for the free rent, food, and occasionally getting mom to do your laundry so you can spend extra time and money on video games in the basement and can delay dealing with real life GTFO quick.  This kind of failure to accept reality as an adult is not a good way to go.

It seems to me that the latter is more common than the former, unfortunately.

Fixed it.

[srrb]

I have a little thought that keeps niggling at me ... well beyond the OP.

It seems to me that the replies where cultural norms are to stay home as long as wanted/possible just because are very child-focused -- very "when you are ready and it makes sense for you to leave". I don't see anything about checking in with the parents about what they want. Is it just a given that they want you there? And will continue to support you? (support = subsidized housing & food, mom or paid help cleaning up after you, etc.)

Whereas the N.A. culture parents have a focus of "I gave you a good 20-25 years, now go fly and let me be center of my own life again."

This then links back for me to the statement about a man still living at home being a patriarchy indicator that the female poster would avoid. And I agree. The expectations of how I would be replacing the role of his mother in our future home (assuming it's not his dad cooking dinner and vacuuming the carpets), life-long subjugated service to our future children, and care and monetary support of his elder parents would be a big concern.

[minority_finance_mo]

I have a little thought that keeps niggling at me ... well beyond the OP.

It seems to me that the replies where cultural norms are to stay home as long as wanted/possible just because are very child-focused -- very "when you are ready and it makes sense for you to leave". I don't see anything about checking in with the parents about what they want. Is it just a given that they want you there? And will continue to support you? (support = subsidized housing & food, mom or paid help cleaning up after you, etc.)

Can't speak for OP, but I can speak to my own experience. It's not actually as much a one-sided equation as it seems. In many South Asian families, as the children get old, they'll get jobs and financially support the parents, while the parents work on the household tasks. Retirement savings might be small in those communities, so the kids act as a safety net.

There's also the reverse caretaker role. In my own culture, you don't put your parents in a retirement home when they can't function, you move them into your own house with your family. It's much more a symbiotic relationship than a child-focused one.

In my own case, even after moving out, I support my parents considerably from a financial perspective.

Again, this might not be the case with OP, but just my 2 cents..

... and care and monetary support of his elder parents would be a big concern.

This would be a concern, for sure. Though tbh someone using this language would be a red flag for me in a relationship. That's where different cultural backgrounds make relationships difficult without serious give and communication.

[Ron Scott]

 Duplicate

[Ron Scott]

If you will allow me to introduce myself, I am a millennial who graduated college within the last decade.  A few years ago I moved back in with my parents to save money.  Within this time, I pursued an advanced degree and leveraged it to land a well-paying remote job.

VS.

In many South Asian families, as the children get old, they'll get jobs and financially support the parents, while the parents work on the household tasks. Retirement savings might be small in those communities, so the kids act as a safety net.

In my own case, even after moving out, I support my parents considerably from a financial perspective.

I think this is an apples vs. oranges comparison. The OP is not motivated by any financial necessity but by the desire to save more money.

[The 585]

From an opposite perspective, I'm dating an Italian who still lives at home with her parents despite being almost 30. All of her friends do as well, despite having jobs, so it's just normal for them. However for me it's definitely a point of contention in regards to taking the relationship a step further.

[NorthernIkigai]

I think the OP has moved out of … this thread.

[Fish Sweet]

I have a little thought that keeps niggling at me ... well beyond the OP.

It seems to me that the replies where cultural norms are to stay home as long as wanted/possible just because are very child-focused -- very "when you are ready and it makes sense for you to leave". I don't see anything about checking in with the parents about what they want. Is it just a given that they want you there? And will continue to support you? (support = subsidized housing & food, mom or paid help cleaning up after you, etc.)

I can only speak to my own (east Asian) cultural roots, but frankly, it's not child-focused at all. Sometimes rather the opposite.

(note: The way I'm describing these cultural mores is old fashioned and not necessarily how they're applied today, just that these entrenched ways of thinking continue to shape how people live their lives now. Think of it as akin to folks daydreaming and talking about how wonderful the delineated gender roles and ~nuclear family~ of the American 1950's were, and how the pressure of that "ideal" might impact a person's life even if they don't subscribe to it at all.)

Gratitude and filial piety are key.  Children owe parents every thing for the gift of life. The understanding is that the overwhelming generosity granted from parents pampering and supporting their children is expected to flow the other way as they get older. Sons (especially 1st born) are given the best of everything (education, care, support) so that they can achieve good jobs and fly high in life... all the better to support the parents in retirement. The son may stay at home with the parents until marriage, continue living there after marriage, or eventually move elderly parents back home to live with them and support them by being the breadwinners.  Daughters stay at home to support the parents until they marry into another family. Daughters-in-law are expected to act as primary home-makers, caretakers, and serve at the whims of the in-laws. In fact, moving out (even if your parents/in-laws are hugely abusive) is a big violation of that cultural contract.

(This idea of daughters going off to serve "new" parents is also why there is/was so much gender-based abortion under China's One Child law. If you can only have one child, why would you not want a son who traditionally would go on to support you in your old age, rather than a daughter that you "give" away to support another family?)

How this works out in reality: messily. First born sons who are given the best of everything and spoiled rotten STRANGELY ENOUGH don't always become high earning and successful breadwinners while also remaining devoted and loving children full of filial piety toward their parents. Weird how that happens. Daughters who are loved by their families and supported through educational and personal success still face pressure to sacrifice whatever ambitions they have to stay at home to be companions and look after their parents... or their in-laws, if they marry a man. A lot of gender based discrimination toward women because of that expectation they'll stay home as soon as they get married/have babies/look after grandma and grandpa. And let's not even get into how same-sex partnerships and marriage throw a wrench into the works. But in the end, what is given is that children owe their parents everything, and that parents will receive back all of the generosity and love they bestowed upon their child and then some.

[srrb]

@Fish Sweet, @minority_finance_mo,  @iris lily

I just want to acknowledge your interesting and thoughtful replies to my "hmmmmms". :)

[Fish Sweet]

@Fish Sweet, @minority_finance_mo,  @iris lily

I just want to acknowledge your interesting and thoughtful replies to my "hmmmmms". :)

:)! It's just so interesting how different societies have such different paradigms for what constitutes an "ideal" household and "proper" parent-child relationships.  And when the culture is structured around that paradigm, it's hard to see outside of it to measure the benefits and drawbacks and value of both our own and other systems.

[Villanelle]

My impression was that the OP moved out (though rereading, that could have just been for university) and then moved back in *to save money*, not because it was expected or the way his family's culture generally works.  And he said he was considering moving out but hesitant about *incurring additional expenses*, not hesitant about rejecting cultural expectations. So it doesn't seem to me like this is a case of him meeting his family's cultural expectations by living out home, since he was pretty clear--twice--about it being about saving money.

[FIRE Artist]

I have a little thought that keeps niggling at me ... well beyond the OP.

It seems to me that the replies where cultural norms are to stay home as long as wanted/possible just because are very child-focused -- very "when you are ready and it makes sense for you to leave". I don't see anything about checking in with the parents about what they want. Is it just a given that they want you there? And will continue to support you? (support = subsidized housing & food, mom or paid help cleaning up after you, etc.)

I can only speak to my own (east Asian) cultural roots, but frankly, it's not child-focused at all. Sometimes rather the opposite.

(note: The way I'm describing these cultural mores is old fashioned and not necessarily how they're applied today, just that these entrenched ways of thinking continue to shape how people live their lives now. Think of it as akin to folks daydreaming and talking about how wonderful the delineated gender roles and ~nuclear family~ of the American 1950's were, and how the pressure of that "ideal" might impact a person's life even if they don't subscribe to it at all.)

Gratitude and filial piety are key.  Children owe parents every thing for the gift of life. The understanding is that the overwhelming generosity granted from parents pampering and supporting their children is expected to flow the other way as they get older. Sons (especially 1st born) are given the best of everything (education, care, support) so that they can achieve good jobs and fly high in life... all the better to support the parents in retirement. The son may stay at home with the parents until marriage, continue living there after marriage, or eventually move elderly parents back home to live with them and support them by being the breadwinners.  Daughters stay at home to support the parents until they marry into another family. Daughters-in-law are expected to act as primary home-makers, caretakers, and serve at the whims of the in-laws. In fact, moving out (even if your parents/in-laws are hugely abusive) is a big violation of that cultural contract.

(This idea of daughters going off to serve "new" parents is also why there is/was so much gender-based abortion under China's One Child law. If you can only have one child, why would you not want a son who traditionally would go on to support you in your old age, rather than a daughter that you "give" away to support another family?)

How this works out in reality: messily. First born sons who are given the best of everything and spoiled rotten STRANGELY ENOUGH don't always become high earning and successful breadwinners while also remaining devoted and loving children full of filial piety toward their parents. Weird how that happens. Daughters who are loved by their families and supported through educational and personal success still face pressure to sacrifice whatever ambitions they have to stay at home to be companions and look after their parents... or their in-laws, if they marry a man. A lot of gender based discrimination toward women because of that expectation they'll stay home as soon as they get married/have babies/look after grandma and grandpa. And let's not even get into how same-sex partnerships and marriage throw a wrench into the works. But in the end, what is given is that children owe their parents everything, and that parents will receive back all of the generosity and love they bestowed upon their child and then some.

This is how I generally understand the situation to be with many of cultures where the norm is to live at home at least until married, if not after and if they eventually do set up a separate household, have the parents move in with the children as they age.  These cultures are more elder focused than child focused. 

The issue with the western trend of the late millennials and Gen Z continuing to live with their parents is that they like to cherry pick the parts of other cultures that fit their needs and ignore the rest, just like the OP seems to be doing.  They like to hold up other cultures as some kind of ideal that justifies their continuing to live in their parents' houses long after appropriate for their own culture while they ignore the bits of those other cultures that don't fit their personal life plans - usually is the bits where they need to provide financially support and care for their aging parents. 

I often have noted that western culture has shifted to some weird (to me) cult of the child over the last couple of generations which has actually participated in creating this situation of young adults not wanting to move out.  I believe many late Boomers and Gen X did their children a disservice by not setting expectations for adulthood, everyone gets a prize for participating, treat your kids as equals/friends, shield them from all forms of discomfort, have the family schedule revolve around the child's interests and sports, etc.  Many Gen X and some Boomers will pay for it with their own delayed retirements. 

As a Gen X, I and none of my peers would have dreamed of continuing to live with our parents...our parents were our parents, not our friends, and the expectation of moving out was always there.  Being under our Silent Generation or early Boomer parent's roofs came with rules, expectations and lack of privacy that any young adult would rather run from.  It was actually considered more comfortable to live with roommates your own age and eat ramen noodles than continue to live with your parents. We were not raised by ex-hippies, we were not rewarded for participation, and our family's schedules did not revolve around us and our sports/hobbies, so we were just not raised to expect any kind of catering to our wants/needs in the way kids are today.  I can totally see how the realities of paying your own way while earning entry level salaries will harsh the mellow of many who were coddled in their youths and consider their parents to be the same as their friends but with nicer food and housing. 

[RedmondStash]

I don't see it as shallow, I see it as protecting my own interests in a patriarchal society that by and large results in man-children living at home while mommy does their laundry and changes their sheets.

Is that a thing? Because I've been doing my own laundry since I was in middle school and so have my children.

Yes. That is a thing.

In the U.S., women partnered with men generally do (and are expected to do) most of the housework, child care, and emotional labor, even now, in 2022. Far more women than men left jobs during the pandemic to care for children stuck at home during lockdowns. There are some interesting news articles about the phenomenon, and about how much of the pandemic job loss fell on women.

This can end up being an invisible issue to men, because they don't experience it directly. It's kind of like how you don't notice there's no wheelchair ramp when you walk up the stairs into a building because you're not in a wheelchair -- but people in wheelchairs are painfully aware. It's harder to notice an issue you yourself don't deal with. But that doesn't mean it isn't real.

Of course, there are exceptions on both sides. But that doesn't affect the overall trends.

On the other side, men who don't want to be the sole breadwinner evaluate a potential female mate's maturity in terms of having a history of earning paychecks. They don't want a partner who's less likely to contribute on the $$ side, so they look for clues either way, and may reject a woman who lives at home with her parents and doesn't earn money. We all try to assess whether a dating prospect is a good fit for what we want from our futures.

[PDXTabs]

I ran across Saving and Cohabitation: The Economic Consequences of Living with One's Parents in Italy and the Netherlands by Alessie et al if you want a to read an academic paper on the phenomenon.

Of interest:

The empirical results presented in this Section can be summarized
 as follow:
 1. In the Italian data, the child's income share has a strong, positive
 effect on household saving
 2. In the Dutch data, the same variable has a negative effect on house-
 hold saving if the child stays with the family at least one more year; it
 has a positive (but insignificant) effect if the child leaves next year.

[PDXTabs]

On the other side, men who don't want to be the sole breadwinner evaluate a potential female mate's maturity in terms of having a history of earning paychecks. They don't want a partner who's less likely to contribute on the $$ side, so they look for clues either way, and may reject a woman who lives at home with her parents and doesn't earn money. We all try to assess whether a dating prospect is a good fit for what we want from our futures.

I would agree, as a man, that someone who lives at home and doesn't work is not an attractive partner. However, the part that I separate in my mind is the working from the living. If I met someone with a good job and a high savings rate who was waiting for a partner to move out I would think that was great. In the above paper they look at data from Italy but also mention Portugal. In Portugal you need a 35% down payment on a property and also get to pay a transfer tax. My cursory understanding is that it is normal to live at home, even with a good job, while saving up this down payment. If I met an American that had the same idea it wouldn't stop me from dating them.

[MayDay]

On the other side, men who don't want to be the sole breadwinner evaluate a potential female mate's maturity in terms of having a history of earning paychecks. They don't want a partner who's less likely to contribute on the $$ side, so they look for clues either way, and may reject a woman who lives at home with her parents and doesn't earn money. We all try to assess whether a dating prospect is a good fit for what we want from our futures.

I would agree, as a man, that someone who lives at home and doesn't work is not an attractive partner. However, the part that I separate in my mind is the working from the living. If I met someone with a good job and a high savings rate who was waiting for a partner to move out I would think that was great. In the above paper they look at data from Italy but also mention Portugal. In Portugal you need a 35% down payment on a property and also get to pay a transfer tax. My cursory understanding is that it is normal to live at home, even with a good job, while saving up this down payment. If I met an American that had the same idea it wouldn't stop me from dating them.

This is where the gender dynamic is important. I don't know if there is specific data on adults living at home with their parents but all data on partnered adults says that men do wayyyyyyyy less household labor. As a woman I assume that would correlate with adult male children living with female parents. As would many western women.

[PDXTabs]

This is where the gender dynamic is important. I don't know if there is specific data on adults living at home with their parents but all data on partnered adults says that men do wayyyyyyyy less household labor. As a woman I assume that would correlate with adult male children living with female parents. As would many western women.

But you aren't dating a population, you are dating one person. Or perhaps I should say: do whatever you want. I wouldn't, personally, read too far into it. It has not been my experience that male white collar professionals that choose to live at home until finding someone to live with romantically are worse at domestic labor than the population as a whole.

[RedmondStash]

But you aren't dating a population, you are dating one person. Or perhaps I should say: do whatever you want. I wouldn't, personally, read too far into it. It has not been my experience that male white collar professionals that choose to live at home until finding someone to live with romantically are worse at domestic labor than the population as a whole.

With respect, unless you've been a woman partnered and/or living with those male white collar professionals, you may not know what a woman's experience with them is like. As a man, you see and experience one thing with those men; women they're involved with may see and experience another.

You never really know what goes on behind closed doors.

We all have our unconscious biases, based on cultural pressures, how we were raised, etc. Certainly you don't have to take this as an opportunity to listen to something other people are saying that you don't believe is true, but given how many women are talking about being concerned about this red flag that a man may not be a good match, and why, I'm guessing there are genuine lived experiences here that those concerns are based on.

[FrugalToque]

#2. Laundry is a random example. Pick whatever you want.  There are hundreds of little things like that that IMO adults need to learn to do for themselves. Cleaning the house, dealing with service and utility providers, paying said bills, all the outdoor maintenance, dealing with house repairs like appliance issues, dealing with either buying a house or a landlord, grocery shopping, meal planning, making sure you have household necessities, etc etc etc.

I've seen enough marriages go to crap because either one or both of the participants weren't grown-ups yet.

Unless you have a very specific kind of childhood (single parent households, maybe?) where the children learn very early on to be super-responsible, how can someone be expected to do their part in managing a household?  All those little things you mentioned will be left up to the other partner or - in one case I saw - basically left up to no one because *both* partners had failed to grow up and move out before getting married.

[PDXTabs]

With respect, unless you've been a woman partnered and/or living with those male white collar professionals, you may not know what a woman's experience with them is like. As a man, you see and experience one thing with those men; women they're involved with may see and experience another.

With respect, I don't need to be a woman to add up the domestic labor in my childfree home to decide who is doing more hours of housework. For the past four years in my world it has been the man. That isn't a complaint, we balanced labor in a way that worked for us with our careers and commutes. But guys can add and divide too. But I agree with you that it is horrific for men to expect women, or anyone else, to pick up after them. Don't date those guys. Don't live with those guys in any capacity. IMHO

[Shuchong]

I'm in my late 30s and have lived with my parents most of the past year.  I spent over a decade living on my own and with roommates in NYC and thereabouts, I ended a relationship in late 2020, and I decided that instead of living and working in a postage stamp apartment in a concrete jungle where I could go days without regular human interaction, I would hunker down in my parents' 2000+ square foot house with abundant outdoor space.  I went back to NYC for a few months this fall, but ended up needing to take time off of work due to an autoimmune condition and came right back to my parents' place.

It's been a really good situation for me, and I think for my parents as well, as they're getting older and were stretched caring for my 90 year old grandfather.  I've been able to help with cooking, cleaning, snow shoveling, etc.  That has helped ameliorate the "reversion to high school" dynamic.  And I've gotten to spend so much time with them, after years of only seeing them once a year (they're in a remote location).  Sure, it can be annoying living with your parents, or with your adult children.  And I'm certainly not planning on doing it forever.  But I think those annoyances have been minor compared to the benefits.  And yes, it would likely be a red flag if I were dating, but I'm not. 

I guess I say all this to echo those above: it really does depend on your situation whether it's good for you or not.  And "good for you" sometimes has little to do with finances. 

[clarkfan1979]

I lived at home after undergrad on and off for about 13 months. I went to college out of state and hadn't really seen much of my dad for about 4.5 years. As a result, he was happy that I was living at his house. The house was plenty big and it was just him and my step-mom. I think the total square footage was around 2600. It was a 5 bed and 2.5 bath. I was in a bedroom in the finished basement. 

I moved home in January 2003. I had plans to move to Colorado to be a ski bum October 2002 to April 2003. Then off to grad school in August 2003. I couldn't sign a year lease for an apartment and couldn't really find anyone else to live with for less than a year, so I lived at my parents. I worked as a substitute teacher and worked construction. I was also gone on many weekends following my younger brother around the midwest to watch his college baseball games.

This is kind of an extreme example, but I do have one cautionary tale about living at your parents house in a HCOL. My example is about Denver, which might be more or less expensive than your city. My wife friends were living in an apartment in Denver for $800/month in 2009. In 2010, their parents moved out of state to a vacation destination but kept their primary home in Denver. They told the kids that they could stay at the house and just pay utilities. The house was big, so utilities were probably around $400/month (including internet). Their parents would spend about one week at the house every 3-4 months, so the overlap was small. The house was also pretty big. Maybe 3500 sq. ft.

My wife's friends plan was to save money to buy a house. Their total housing expenses went from $1000/month to $400/month, so they had the chance to save an extra $600/month. However, 9 years went by and they never bought a house. In 2019 they were told that the parents were selling the house. When they went to look at houses in 2019, they couldn't afford a single family home. They bought a townhouse for around 500K. It's really small, but they seem to like it. No judgement.

All of the other friends in her social circle bought starter homes in 2010 to 2012. Denver started to get expensive in 2015. Her other friends have since sold their starter homes and used the equity to purchase 600K to 800K single family homes with no problem because of the equity from their first home.

In conclusion, the couple that lived at home for free for 9 years actually have less money because they lost out on the Denver market appreciation from 2010 to 2019.   

[kite]

Left at 20 when I got married. Bought our home soon after, closing on the house before finishing my undergrad. 
It makes sense to move out when you are ready.  It could be now, next year or never. No judgement. Everybody is different.

[Dicey]

Left at 20 when I got married. Bought our home soon after, closing on the house before finishing my undergrad. 
It makes sense to move out when you are ready.  It could be now, next year or never. No judgement. Everybody is different.

I judge people who start threads asking for advice and then vacate the premises. JudgeJudgeJudge.

[DadJokes]

Left at 20 when I got married. Bought our home soon after, closing on the house before finishing my undergrad. 
It makes sense to move out when you are ready.  It could be now, next year or never. No judgement. Everybody is different.

I judge people who start threads asking for advice and then vacate the premises. JudgeJudgeJudge.

He replied once, and I think that he got the general opinion of the forum by that point.

[Dicey]

Left at 20 when I got married. Bought our home soon after, closing on the house before finishing my undergrad. 
It makes sense to move out when you are ready.  It could be now, next year or never. No judgement. Everybody is different.

I judge people who start threads asking for advice and then vacate the premises. JudgeJudgeJudge.

He replied once, and I think that he got the general opinion of the forum by that point.

I checked before I wrote that. Still judging.

[NorthernIkigai]

Left at 20 when I got married. Bought our home soon after, closing on the house before finishing my undergrad. 
It makes sense to move out when you are ready.  It could be now, next year or never. No judgement. Everybody is different.

I judge people who start threads asking for advice and then vacate the premises. JudgeJudgeJudge.

He replied once, and I think that he got the general opinion of the forum by that point.

I checked before I wrote that. Still judging.

Maybe he's too busy packing? ;-)

[Dicey]

Left at 20 when I got married. Bought our home soon after, closing on the house before finishing my undergrad. 
It makes sense to move out when you are ready.  It could be now, next year or never. No judgement. Everybody is different.

I judge people who start threads asking for advice and then vacate the premises. JudgeJudgeJudge.

He replied once, and I think that he got the general opinion of the forum by that point.

I checked before I wrote that. Still judging.

Maybe he's too busy packing? ;-)

Almost spit out my tea. Good one!

[alm0stk00l]

I ultimately moved out of my parent's house when my wife made me. I guess I was 30 or 31 at that point. We lived there for the first 6-12 months of our marriage, but eventually, she decided she no longer wanted to do that which made sense to me.

Everyone mentioning the dating thing is weird to me. I dated while living with my parents and it was never once brought up as an issue with any woman I dated. I know there are movies and stuff that make it seem taboo, but I never experienced that in the entire time I was an adult with a professional career still living with my parents. I am ridiculously charming and I have a carefree attitude that rubs off on those around me which may have contributed to my dating success, but I don't think people actually care that much about where you live.

[GuitarStv]

I ultimately moved out of my parent's house when my wife made me. I guess I was 30 or 31 at that point. We lived there for the first 6-12 months of our marriage, but eventually, she decided she no longer wanted to do that which made sense to me.

Everyone mentioning the dating thing is weird to me. I dated while living with my parents and it was never once brought up as an issue with any woman I dated. I know there are movies and stuff that make it seem taboo, but I never experienced that in the entire time I was an adult with a professional career still living with my parents. I am ridiculously charming and I have a carefree attitude that rubs off on those around me which may have contributed to my dating success, but I don't think people actually care that much about where you live.

Many (most?) parents aren't OK with their child bringing a woman home and having loud sex before marriage.

[alm0stk00l]

I ultimately moved out of my parent's house when my wife made me. I guess I was 30 or 31 at that point. We lived there for the first 6-12 months of our marriage, but eventually, she decided she no longer wanted to do that which made sense to me.

Everyone mentioning the dating thing is weird to me. I dated while living with my parents and it was never once brought up as an issue with any woman I dated. I know there are movies and stuff that make it seem taboo, but I never experienced that in the entire time I was an adult with a professional career still living with my parents. I am ridiculously charming and I have a carefree attitude that rubs off on those around me which may have contributed to my dating success, but I don't think people actually care that much about where you live.

Many (most?) parents aren't OK with their child bringing a woman home and having loud sex before marriage.

I mean my parents had sex many times over the course of me living with them and I never heard them. It was never an issue going that direction so I'm not sure why it would be in the opposite direction. I guess if I am being honest I am only assuming my parents had sex as I never actually heard them doing so. You are correct though that if you want to have unencumbered sex in the middle of the kitchen it may be time to move out.

[GuitarStv]

At our house, there was a rule that I wasn't allowed to be in a room with the door closed with a girl.  That held through highschool, university, and afterwards . . . so moving back home didn't really seem like an option.

[Villanelle]

At our house, there was a rule that I wasn't allowed to be in a room with the door closed with a girl.  That held through high school, university, and afterwards . . . so moving back home didn't really seem like an option.

Yes, even my fiance, who my parents adore (joke is he's the favorite child), wasn't allowed to share a room with me until after our marriage.  It was their home, so I respected it.  But it would have made dating interesting.

I'm sure there are some people who are willing to date someone who lived with his her parents.  Of course there are.  But it is definitely going to shrink the size of the pool, especially, I'd guess for men looking to date woman.  Whether that's sufficient enough reason to move out or not depends on someone's priorities. 

[NorthernIkigai]

I ultimately moved out of my parent's house when my wife made me. I guess I was 30 or 31 at that point. We lived there for the first 6-12 months of our marriage, but eventually, she decided she no longer wanted to do that which made sense to me.

Everyone mentioning the dating thing is weird to me. I dated while living with my parents and it was never once brought up as an issue with any woman I dated. I know there are movies and stuff that make it seem taboo, but I never experienced that in the entire time I was an adult with a professional career still living with my parents. I am ridiculously charming and I have a carefree attitude that rubs off on those around me which may have contributed to my dating success, but I don't think people actually care that much about where you live.

Many (most?) parents aren't OK with their child bringing a woman home and having loud sex before marriage.

I mean my parents had sex many times over the course of me living with them and I never heard them. It was never an issue going that direction so I'm not sure why it would be in the opposite direction. I guess if I am being honest I am only assuming my parents had sex as I never actually heard them doing so. You are correct though that if you want to have unencumbered sex in the middle of the kitchen it may be time to move out.

I think most parents wouldn't consider the rules being the same for parents and (even grown) children in the same house, I think. Whether on this topic or on many others.

[mr.mac]

Left at 20 when I got married. Bought our home soon after, closing on the house before finishing my undergrad. 
It makes sense to move out when you are ready.  It could be now, next year or never. No judgement. Everybody is different.

I judge people who start threads asking for advice and then vacate the premises. JudgeJudgeJudge.

He replied once, and I think that he got the general opinion of the forum by that point.

I checked before I wrote that. Still judging.

Maybe he's too busy packing? ;-)

Almost spit out my tea. Good one!

laughing while reading these nested quotes.

Didn't log onto the forum for a few days and was not expecting this many replies.  I'm from a family where all kids are expected to carry their own weight and no one sees moving in and out and back in as at all strange.  One of my relatives did that in her 40s to take care of her mother.