Are you still avoiding family due to Covid?

[ixtap]

I haven't seen any of my family in person other than my wife and kids since Christmas 2019. The only people that have been inside the house are contractors and they typically are in and out as fast as possible. I very occasionally set foot in a grocery or big box hardware store but that's been it since March.

To reiterate what someone else said up thread, I'm not avoiding my family, I'm keeping them safe.

I really think that the rephrasing is important here. I like to believe we would be facing fewer mental health issues from all of this is we phrased it in terms of public health and protecting our community, rather than avoidance and isolation. It was reason I like the "safer at home" phrasing, as long as we acknowledge that not everyone is safer at home...

[Adventine]

I haven't seen any of my family in person other than my wife and kids since Christmas 2019. The only people that have been inside the house are contractors and they typically are in and out as fast as possible. I very occasionally set foot in a grocery or big box hardware store but that's been it since March.

To reiterate what someone else said up thread, I'm not avoiding my family, I'm keeping them safe.

I really think that the rephrasing is important here. I like to believe we would be facing fewer mental health issues from all of this is we phrased it in terms of public health and protecting our community, rather than avoidance and isolation. It was reason I like the "safer at home" phrasing, as long as we acknowledge that not everyone is safer at home...

Agreed. Reframing it from "avoiding family" to "protecting family" is much more productive.

[Stubblestache]

I saw my mum once in 2020 and will only see her again once we have both been vaccinated. As someone rightly mentioned above, I am doing this to protect my family, not avoid them.

[GuitarStv]

I know there was a lot of ppl who avoided holiday gatherings with family, even family that was relatively local to them.  I am just curious if you are still holding out on seeing them?

We are not seeing family or friends in person, and are keeping up our social-distancing protocols.

Cases are skyrocketing in my neck of the woods (as they are in many, many places). We won’t ease up until we are both vaccinated (which hopefully will be in the next couple of weeks), and even then we’ll be very deliberate about The Who, When and How we see people.

Vaccination is not a guarantee of safety from getting or transmitting the virus.

Until the second dose of the vaccine it's unknown how much protection a person has from covid.  Even after the second dose, one in twenty people who are fully vaccinated can still get coronavirus (the numbers aren't settled, but expected to be worse for the new mutations of coronavirus - estimates of around one in five have been put forth).

Although given human nature this will be very hard to fight,  until the majority of the population has been vaccinated easing up on social distancing/mask wearing/hand washing/etc. is a mistake.

[habanero]

Vaccination is not a guarantee of safety from getting or transmitting the virus.

Haven't read anything about it but as lots of places are turing up restrictions a few notches while vaccination starts I wonder if they will even get data on that anytime soon. As far as I understand they way they figure this out is to observe spread after a siginificant portion of the population is vaccinated, but now my initial thought is that it will be hard to tell one effect from the other.

[nereo]

I know there was a lot of ppl who avoided holiday gatherings with family, even family that was relatively local to them.  I am just curious if you are still holding out on seeing them?

We are not seeing family or friends in person, and are keeping up our social-distancing protocols.

Cases are skyrocketing in my neck of the woods (as they are in many, many places). We won’t ease up until we are both vaccinated (which hopefully will be in the next couple of weeks), and even then we’ll be very deliberate about The Who, When and How we see people.

Vaccination is not a guarantee of safety from getting or transmitting the virus.

Until the second dose of the vaccine it's unknown how much protection a person has from covid.  Even after the second dose, one in twenty people who are fully vaccinated can still get coronavirus (the numbers aren't settled, but expected to be worse for the new mutations of coronavirus - estimates of around one in five have been put forth).

Although given human nature this will be very hard to fight,  until the majority of the population has been vaccinated easing up on social distancing/mask wearing/hand washing/etc. is a mistake.

Exactly.  Hence the need to be very deliberate about who, how and where you see people even after vaccination.  We certainly won't be attending large mask-less gatherings right away even after getting our shots.

[GuitarStv]

I know there was a lot of ppl who avoided holiday gatherings with family, even family that was relatively local to them.  I am just curious if you are still holding out on seeing them?

We are not seeing family or friends in person, and are keeping up our social-distancing protocols.

Cases are skyrocketing in my neck of the woods (as they are in many, many places). We won’t ease up until we are both vaccinated (which hopefully will be in the next couple of weeks), and even then we’ll be very deliberate about The Who, When and How we see people.

Vaccination is not a guarantee of safety from getting or transmitting the virus.

Until the second dose of the vaccine it's unknown how much protection a person has from covid.  Even after the second dose, one in twenty people who are fully vaccinated can still get coronavirus (the numbers aren't settled, but expected to be worse for the new mutations of coronavirus - estimates of around one in five have been put forth).

Although given human nature this will be very hard to fight,  until the majority of the population has been vaccinated easing up on social distancing/mask wearing/hand washing/etc. is a mistake.

Exactly.  Hence the need to be very deliberate about who, how and where you see people even after vaccination.  We certainly won't be attending large mask-less gatherings right away even after getting our shots.

Yeah, not trying to single you out.  I've heard a disconcerting number of people who are making noises along the lines of 'Once I get the first vaccine shot, it'll be back to normal!  I'm going to be so glad to never wear a mask again."  It makes me concerned.

[cool7hand]

We see family and friends who share our level of risk tolerance. We run only necessary errands, but always with a mask. For those in our bubble who still must work in some setting other than home, they do so in a place where everyone wears masks as stays 6 feet apart. Our social bubble includes all family and friends who do the same.

As for the mask v. no-mask post vaccine debate, I'm on the fence. From a risk tolerance perspective, I'm generally ok with a 5% risk given my lack of risk factors for severe Covid. Understanding that I could get it and be asymptomatic and put others at risk, I'd advocate for wearing a mask where that is necessary for the protection of others. But I'd also be ok with attending maskless events if it was understood in advance that such an event was going to be a maskless and attending was at each's own risk.

[Jon Bon]

Just got back from my second visit with family this month.

However we already had it, and my parents are very ok with the risk. They would much rather see grandkids and get covid, then not see them for a year. They are only young once.

To each their own and all.

[nereo]

Yeah, not trying to single you out.  I've heard a disconcerting number of people who are making noises along the lines of 'Once I get the first vaccine shot, it'll be back to normal!  I'm going to be so glad to never wear a mask again."  It makes me concerned.

I'm really concerned as well.  And these aren't just strangers I'm talking about.  Roughly half my family is 1A or 1B (myself included) and a bunch of them are talking about big gatherings "to celebrate" in the comming weeks.  Nope. The other half of our family won't be vaccinated, we still don't know if vaccinated people can spread the virus, and there are enough pathways (e.g. our non-vaccinated family, plus the ~1 in 20 for whom the vaccine won't protect) that such gatherings of mostly-vaccinated people could ironically become spreader events of their own.

Thank god my workplace - made up of all 1B, soon-to-be-vaccinated individuals - is keeping COVID protocols in place for at least the next quarter.

[GuitarStv]

We see family and friends who share our level of risk tolerance. We run only necessary errands, but always with a mask. For those in our bubble who still must work in some setting other than home, they do so in a place where everyone wears masks as stays 6 feet apart. Our social bubble includes all family and friends who do the same.

As for the mask v. no-mask post vaccine debate, I'm on the fence. From a risk tolerance perspective, I'm generally ok with a 5% risk given my lack of risk factors for severe Covid. Understanding that I could get it and be asymptomatic and put others at risk, I'd advocate for wearing a mask where that is necessary for the protection of others. But I'd also be ok with attending maskless events if it was understood in advance that such an event was going to be a maskless and attending was at each's own risk.

5% risk is for the moderna and phizer vaccines if you contract regular covid - not the new variants currently going around.  As mentioned, estimates are that risk may be four times higher with these new variants.

There shouldn't be any 'maskless events' until the percentage of population vaccinated is high enough to provide the benefits of herd immunity.

[Jon Bon]

We see family and friends who share our level of risk tolerance. We run only necessary errands, but always with a mask. For those in our bubble who still must work in some setting other than home, they do so in a place where everyone wears masks as stays 6 feet apart. Our social bubble includes all family and friends who do the same.

As for the mask v. no-mask post vaccine debate, I'm on the fence. From a risk tolerance perspective, I'm generally ok with a 5% risk given my lack of risk factors for severe Covid. Understanding that I could get it and be asymptomatic and put others at risk, I'd advocate for wearing a mask where that is necessary for the protection of others. But I'd also be ok with attending maskless events if it was understood in advance that such an event was going to be a maskless and attending was at each's own risk.

5% risk is for the moderna and phizer vaccines if you contract regular covid - not the new variants currently going around.  As mentioned, estimates are that risk may be four times higher with these new variants.

There shouldn't be any 'maskless events' until the percentage of population vaccinated is high enough to provide the benefits of herd immunity.

From the NYT, a source that has taken this serious from day one.

Right now, public discussion of the vaccines is full of warnings about their limitations: They’re not 100 percent effective. Even vaccinated people may be able to spread the virus. And people shouldn’t change their behavior once they get their shots.

These warnings have a basis in truth, just as it’s true that masks are imperfect. But the sum total of the warnings is misleading, as I heard from multiple doctors and epidemiologists last week.

“It’s driving me a little bit crazy,” Dr. Ashish Jha, dean of the Brown School of Public Health, told me.

“We’re underselling the vaccine,” Dr. Aaron Richterman, an infectious-disease specialist at the University of Pennsylvania, said.

“It’s going to save your life — that’s where the emphasis has to be right now,” Dr. Peter Hotez of the Baylor College of Medicine said.

The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are “essentially 100 percent effective against serious disease,” Dr. Paul Offit, the director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, said. “It’s ridiculously encouraging.”

"If anything, the 95 percent number understates the effectiveness, because it counts anyone who came down with a mild case of Covid-19 as a failure. But turning Covid into a typical flu — as the vaccines evidently did for most of the remaining 5 percent — is actually a success. Of the 32,000 people who received the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine in a research trial, do you want to guess how many contracted a severe Covid case? One."

[charis]

Yeah, not trying to single you out.  I've heard a disconcerting number of people who are making noises along the lines of 'Once I get the first vaccine shot, it'll be back to normal!  I'm going to be so glad to never wear a mask again."  It makes me concerned.

I'm really concerned as well.  And these aren't just strangers I'm talking about.  Roughly half my family is 1A or 1B (myself included) and a bunch of them are talking about big gatherings "to celebrate" in the comming weeks.  Nope. The other half of our family won't be vaccinated, we still don't know if vaccinated people can spread the virus, and there are enough pathways (e.g. our non-vaccinated family, plus the ~1 in 20 for whom the vaccine won't protect) that such gatherings of mostly-vaccinated people could ironically become spreader events of their own.

Thank god my workplace - made up of all 1B, soon-to-be-vaccinated individuals - is keeping COVID protocols in place for at least the next quarter.

Half of my family and many of my friends are either 1A or 1B and have received their first dose.  It definitely won't be back to normal or maskless, but we do plan to see a small number of vaccinated folks on occasion following inoculation.

[nereo]

Right now, public discussion of the vaccines is full of warnings about their limitations: They’re not 100 percent effective. Even vaccinated people may be able to spread the virus. And people shouldn’t change their behavior once they get their shots.

These warnings have a basis in truth, just as it’s true that masks are imperfect. But the sum total of the warnings is misleading, as I heard from multiple doctors and epidemiologists last week.

“We’re underselling the vaccine,” Dr. Aaron Richterman, an infectious-disease specialist at the University of Pennsylvania, said.

“It’s going to save your life — that’s where the emphasis has to be right now,” Dr. Peter Hotez of the Baylor College of Medicine said.

The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are “essentially 100 percent effective against serious disease,” Dr. Paul Offit, the director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, said. “It’s ridiculously encouraging.”

My primary concern is not getting Covid once I have gotten the vaccine.  It's participating in behavior which will kill other people who are not yet vaccinated.

Absolutely the vaccine is a game-changer.  That doesn't mean we can change the rules of the game.

[GuitarStv]

We see family and friends who share our level of risk tolerance. We run only necessary errands, but always with a mask. For those in our bubble who still must work in some setting other than home, they do so in a place where everyone wears masks as stays 6 feet apart. Our social bubble includes all family and friends who do the same.

As for the mask v. no-mask post vaccine debate, I'm on the fence. From a risk tolerance perspective, I'm generally ok with a 5% risk given my lack of risk factors for severe Covid. Understanding that I could get it and be asymptomatic and put others at risk, I'd advocate for wearing a mask where that is necessary for the protection of others. But I'd also be ok with attending maskless events if it was understood in advance that such an event was going to be a maskless and attending was at each's own risk.

5% risk is for the moderna and phizer vaccines if you contract regular covid - not the new variants currently going around.  As mentioned, estimates are that risk may be four times higher with these new variants.

There shouldn't be any 'maskless events' until the percentage of population vaccinated is high enough to provide the benefits of herd immunity.

From the NYT, a source that has taken this serious from day one.

Right now, public discussion of the vaccines is full of warnings about their limitations: They’re not 100 percent effective. Even vaccinated people may be able to spread the virus. And people shouldn’t change their behavior once they get their shots.

These warnings have a basis in truth, just as it’s true that masks are imperfect. But the sum total of the warnings is misleading, as I heard from multiple doctors and epidemiologists last week.

“It’s driving me a little bit crazy,” Dr. Ashish Jha, dean of the Brown School of Public Health, told me.

“We’re underselling the vaccine,” Dr. Aaron Richterman, an infectious-disease specialist at the University of Pennsylvania, said.

“It’s going to save your life — that’s where the emphasis has to be right now,” Dr. Peter Hotez of the Baylor College of Medicine said.

The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are “essentially 100 percent effective against serious disease,” Dr. Paul Offit, the director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, said. “It’s ridiculously encouraging.”

"If anything, the 95 percent number understates the effectiveness, because it counts anyone who came down with a mild case of Covid-19 as a failure. But turning Covid into a typical flu — as the vaccines evidently did for most of the remaining 5 percent — is actually a success. Of the 32,000 people who received the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine in a research trial, do you want to guess how many contracted a severe Covid case? One."

I don't think anything you posted above contradicts anything I posted.

The vaccines are a great tool to have.  But we should expect the vaccines to continue to become less effective over time as the virus continues to mutate - it's very important to vaccinate people as soon as possible.

Great as the vaccine is, until we have 70-80% of the population fully vaccinated it is not back to business as usual.  If we try to rush things it will just result in more needless deaths.

[Jon Bon]

We see family and friends who share our level of risk tolerance. We run only necessary errands, but always with a mask. For those in our bubble who still must work in some setting other than home, they do so in a place where everyone wears masks as stays 6 feet apart. Our social bubble includes all family and friends who do the same.

As for the mask v. no-mask post vaccine debate, I'm on the fence. From a risk tolerance perspective, I'm generally ok with a 5% risk given my lack of risk factors for severe Covid. Understanding that I could get it and be asymptomatic and put others at risk, I'd advocate for wearing a mask where that is necessary for the protection of others. But I'd also be ok with attending maskless events if it was understood in advance that such an event was going to be a maskless and attending was at each's own risk.

5% risk is for the moderna and phizer vaccines if you contract regular covid - not the new variants currently going around.  As mentioned, estimates are that risk may be four times higher with these new variants.

There shouldn't be any 'maskless events' until the percentage of population vaccinated is high enough to provide the benefits of herd immunity.

From the NYT, a source that has taken this serious from day one.

Right now, public discussion of the vaccines is full of warnings about their limitations: They’re not 100 percent effective. Even vaccinated people may be able to spread the virus. And people shouldn’t change their behavior once they get their shots.

These warnings have a basis in truth, just as it’s true that masks are imperfect. But the sum total of the warnings is misleading, as I heard from multiple doctors and epidemiologists last week.

“It’s driving me a little bit crazy,” Dr. Ashish Jha, dean of the Brown School of Public Health, told me.

“We’re underselling the vaccine,” Dr. Aaron Richterman, an infectious-disease specialist at the University of Pennsylvania, said.

“It’s going to save your life — that’s where the emphasis has to be right now,” Dr. Peter Hotez of the Baylor College of Medicine said.

The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are “essentially 100 percent effective against serious disease,” Dr. Paul Offit, the director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, said. “It’s ridiculously encouraging.”

"If anything, the 95 percent number understates the effectiveness, because it counts anyone who came down with a mild case of Covid-19 as a failure. But turning Covid into a typical flu — as the vaccines evidently did for most of the remaining 5 percent — is actually a success. Of the 32,000 people who received the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine in a research trial, do you want to guess how many contracted a severe Covid case? One."

I don't think anything you posted above contradicts anything I posted.

The vaccines are a great tool to have.  But we should expect the vaccines to continue to become less effective over time as the virus continues to mutate - it's very important to vaccinate people as soon as possible.

Great as the vaccine is, until we have 70-80% of the population fully vaccinated it is not back to business as usual.  If we try to rush things it will just result in more needless deaths.

Yeah not sure I was trying too?

I think my point is this vaccine is in fact f*cking amazing. 95% makes it one of the most effective of all time. I believe a flu shot is ~50% effective.

My thought is the vaccine is likely going to turn Covid into "Flu-C" in less than a year. I want people to feel the same way about coivd that they do about the flu.

Also completely random segway. Does anyone know if recovering from covid is more/less effective than the vaccine?

[Just Joe]

The Lowes in my area still has a 50% mask compliance rate.    I see people not wearing masks or not wearing them properly everywhere I have to go.  It's maddening.

that's quite stunning but not sure why I"m shocked still.

does lowes not have a mask policy or just no enforced? We sure have become one selfish disgusting culture.

Same in our town. Lowe's has to be one of the most dangerous places to visit. We did so all summer as we were working on a house flip.

We are still avoiding family and friends. One teen is happy to be at home, other is seeing a friend. Alot. Best for both probably.

Coworker stopped by the chat this morning. Asked if am I getting the vaccine. Yeah. Whole family will once able. Well, coworker says - you know there have been a couple of deaths from the vaccine. I reminded coworker that there have been 2M+ deaths from COVID. How much statistical encouragement does a person need?

[GuitarStv]

We see family and friends who share our level of risk tolerance. We run only necessary errands, but always with a mask. For those in our bubble who still must work in some setting other than home, they do so in a place where everyone wears masks as stays 6 feet apart. Our social bubble includes all family and friends who do the same.

As for the mask v. no-mask post vaccine debate, I'm on the fence. From a risk tolerance perspective, I'm generally ok with a 5% risk given my lack of risk factors for severe Covid. Understanding that I could get it and be asymptomatic and put others at risk, I'd advocate for wearing a mask where that is necessary for the protection of others. But I'd also be ok with attending maskless events if it was understood in advance that such an event was going to be a maskless and attending was at each's own risk.

5% risk is for the moderna and phizer vaccines if you contract regular covid - not the new variants currently going around.  As mentioned, estimates are that risk may be four times higher with these new variants.

There shouldn't be any 'maskless events' until the percentage of population vaccinated is high enough to provide the benefits of herd immunity.

From the NYT, a source that has taken this serious from day one.

Right now, public discussion of the vaccines is full of warnings about their limitations: They’re not 100 percent effective. Even vaccinated people may be able to spread the virus. And people shouldn’t change their behavior once they get their shots.

These warnings have a basis in truth, just as it’s true that masks are imperfect. But the sum total of the warnings is misleading, as I heard from multiple doctors and epidemiologists last week.

“It’s driving me a little bit crazy,” Dr. Ashish Jha, dean of the Brown School of Public Health, told me.

“We’re underselling the vaccine,” Dr. Aaron Richterman, an infectious-disease specialist at the University of Pennsylvania, said.

“It’s going to save your life — that’s where the emphasis has to be right now,” Dr. Peter Hotez of the Baylor College of Medicine said.

The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are “essentially 100 percent effective against serious disease,” Dr. Paul Offit, the director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, said. “It’s ridiculously encouraging.”

"If anything, the 95 percent number understates the effectiveness, because it counts anyone who came down with a mild case of Covid-19 as a failure. But turning Covid into a typical flu — as the vaccines evidently did for most of the remaining 5 percent — is actually a success. Of the 32,000 people who received the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine in a research trial, do you want to guess how many contracted a severe Covid case? One."

I don't think anything you posted above contradicts anything I posted.

The vaccines are a great tool to have.  But we should expect the vaccines to continue to become less effective over time as the virus continues to mutate - it's very important to vaccinate people as soon as possible.

Great as the vaccine is, until we have 70-80% of the population fully vaccinated it is not back to business as usual.  If we try to rush things it will just result in more needless deaths.

Yeah not sure I was trying too?

I think my point is this vaccine is in fact f*cking amazing. 95% makes it one of the most effective of all time. I believe a flu shot is ~50% effective.

My thought is the vaccine is likely going to turn Covid into "Flu-C" in less than a year. I want people to feel the same way about coivd that they do about the flu.

Also completely random segway. Does anyone know if recovering from covid is more/less effective than the vaccine?

So far, all evidence points to the vaccine being much less problematic than covid (although we are lacking testing and evidence for possible long term complications).

Long term effects of covid are not fully known.  We have been seeing that 50%-80% of people still have symptoms after 3 months - https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-tragedy-of-the-post-covid-long-haulers-2020101521173) long after the virus has run its course.  How long or if these symptoms will stick around or if they become permanent is unknown, but people who developed long term problems from similar SARS virus often had issues impacting their health for more than two years (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7192220/).

[dougules]

I'm definitely avoiding family.  My dad had been basically looking everywhere for it, and finally found it right before Christmas.  In a sense it was fortunate he started showing symptoms right before they were planning to take a trip out of state to visit my 80-year-old aunt.  He didn't get that sick, but he passed it to my mom who was feeling pretty rough for a few weeks, fortunately nothing truly serious.  Our Zoom Christmas kept me, my siblings, and my grandmother from getting sick. 

The pandemic is as bad as it ever has been here, so I'm not planning to go back to anything close to normal until the numbers go way down. 

To each their own and all.

It's one thing to make choices about one's own personal health, but our actions right now involve making choices about the health of the whole community around us.  "To each their own" does not apply here any more than it does to obeying stop signs.  I'm an essential worker, so what I do both at work and outside of work involves making decisions about the health of my coworkers as well as everyone they come in contact with, everyone those people come in contact with, etc. etc.

[Jon Bon]

I'm definitely avoiding family.  My dad had been basically looking everywhere for it, and finally found it right before Christmas.  In a sense it was fortunate he started showing symptoms right before they were planning to take a trip out of state to visit my 80-year-old aunt.  He didn't get that sick, but he passed it to my mom who was feeling pretty rough for a few weeks, fortunately nothing truly serious.  Our Zoom Christmas kept me, my siblings, and my grandmother from getting sick. 

The pandemic is as bad as it ever has been here, so I'm not planning to go back to anything close to normal until the numbers go way down. 

To each their own and all.

It's one thing to make choices about one's own personal health, but our actions right now involve making choices about the health of the whole community around us.  "To each their own" does not apply here any more than it does to obeying stop signs.  I'm an essential worker, so what I do both at work and outside of work involves making decisions about the health of my coworkers as well as everyone they come in contact with, everyone those people come in contact with, etc. etc.

I was saying to each their own in terms of what risk tolerance you are allowing/accepting. I will continue to be in charge of my health, and others will be in charge of theirs.

Good luck out there.

[paulkots]

I was saying to each their own in terms of what risk tolerance you are allowing/accepting. I will continue to be in charge of my health, and others will be in charge of theirs.

Good luck out there.

Agreed.

I wear a mask everywhere(its not that hard) but I also see the problems isolation is causing people. From heavy drinking to mental problems.

My mother is turning 72 in a week and the whole family will be getting together, yes, unmasked because there are more than a few smaller children. During the first wave everyone isolated but this caused major health issues to my mother, heart and blood pressure. Saving someone from covid isn't a fix when they pass due to health issues from isolation.

[nereo]

I think my point is this vaccine is in fact f*cking amazing. 95% makes it one of the most effective of all time. I believe a flu shot is ~50% effective.

My thought is the vaccine is likely going to turn Covid into "Flu-C" in less than a year. I want people to feel the same way about coivd that they do about the flu.

Also completely random segway. Does anyone know if recovering from covid is more/less effective than the vaccine?

I hope you are right - i fear it won’t be the case.  There are a few big unknowns with both the vaccine and the virus

1) what is the long-term efficacy of the vaccine.  Will this be a one-and-done vaccine, or will we need shots annually.  If it’s the latter one can expect outbreaks which might rival a bad flu season, because as a nation we are pretty piss-poor at getting our shots.

2) what are the long-term health consequences of having gotten the virus.  As GuitarStv says - we still don’t know, and a worrisome percent of people have severe lingering symptoms months after ‘recovering’.  I also wonder whether asymptomatic spreaders won’t come down with symptoms months or years later.

3) Will different variants of the virus prove less responsive to our vaccines?  We’ve already got a couple of strains that are more contagious - a vaccine-resistant type could really screw things up.

4) can vaccinated people harbor and spread the disease?  There’s some precedence for this with other ailments, and ironically an increase in vaccinations could spark outbreaks as vaccinated people start to gather and (potentially) pass the virus on to others.

5) social impacts of being vaccinated (or not).  Very soon we might have rules and restrictions that differ for those who have been vaccinated and those who have not. For example, airlines and employers might require a ‘vaccine passport’.  Great if you have it, but it could be a year or more for low-risk people to get their shots. There’s a steep economic and social cost if you are prohibited from doing things because you simply cannot get the vaccine yet.

[Plina]

I flew to visit my parents and spent three weeks there during christmas with them, my brother and sister, her partner and baby. I worked from home 10 days prior to the trip that was masked all the way from my front door. All my family works outside of the home so I was probably the most low risk person. My parents are not in a risk group and they choose to see my sister that is a nurse and have until now met covid patients. Luckily, she has started working from home as she is pregnant.
My parents do all their errands with masks and gloves.

My mom and me visited my grandfather because he had asked if I would come and visit. He sees his other kids and grandkids. As I live on the other end of the country I am normally only visiting during summer and christmas. This summer I dropped in for ten minutes. I was not quite comfortable with the visit but I think that it is his choice and as his health is declining you never know when it is the last time. We planned the trip with no stops when we drove to see him

My mother asked if I would come home for eastern but I will skip that this year. Hopefully, we are all vaccinated at least in the beginning of the summer as I will visit in the end. Last summer I drove but it is a two day trip and to long in the winter. As my family is living on the other end of the country no further visits are planned.

[Tasse]

I'm confused that masks are the precaution people are excited about ditching. Masks have not negatively impacted my quality of life in any way; they are a mild nuisance, hardly the largest sacrifice I've made.

When recalibrating what risks I'll be willing to accept post-vaccination, "not wearing a mask anymore" never crossed my mind. I'm thinking, "expand my bubble to another vaccinated household."

[MoseyingAlong]

I'm confused that masks are the precaution people are excited about ditching. Masks have not negatively impacted my quality of life in any way; they are a mild nuisance, hardly the largest sacrifice I've made.

When recalibrating what risks I'll be willing to accept post-vaccination, "not wearing a mask anymore" never crossed my mind. I'm thinking, "expand my bubble to another vaccinated household."

What a wide variety of people we are.

Wearing masks (and yes, I do it) is actually the most bothersome precaution to me. It has definitely negatively impacted my mental health and my interaction with the wider world. It makes me feel very isolated and unseen.

Which is kinda funny because most of my work is in operating rooms where we wear them almost all the time anyway. In normal times, that was fine. In these times, it's verging on too much.

[Psychstache]

I'm confused that masks are the precaution people are excited about ditching. Masks have not negatively impacted my quality of life in any way; they are a mild nuisance, hardly the largest sacrifice I've made.

When recalibrating what risks I'll be willing to accept post-vaccination, "not wearing a mask anymore" never crossed my mind. I'm thinking, "expand my bubble to another vaccinated household."

+1. Barely registers on the scales for me. I am actually planning on never giving wearing a mask at the grocery store in winter time when the sickies are wandering around coughing and snotting on everything.

[Dollar Slice]

I'm confused that masks are the precaution people are excited about ditching. Masks have not negatively impacted my quality of life in any way; they are a mild nuisance, hardly the largest sacrifice I've made.

People have different situations and are also biologically different - I get it. Mentally it doesn't bother me, but physically I hate wearing a mask (but I also wear one 100% of the time and have no patience for anyone who doesn't, because people dying is a pretty big fucking deal). I live in a very crowded place (Manhattan) and have no private outdoor space, so I have to wear a mask 100% of the time outside my apartment. And I haven't been able to open my window the entire pandemic due to construction on my building. Meaning I breathe no fresh-feeling/fresh-smelling air, ever, unless the weather is so bad that even the dog walkers and desperate parents of small children are staying out of the parks, and I can find an empty field to sit in without a mask. I find that very difficult. I also have asthma, so breathing through a filter can be a challenge; and I seem to breathe out a lot more moisture than most people, to the point that after five minutes my face is wet to the point that water droplets are forming on my skin... and after 15 minutes of brisk walking, I'm inhaling water up my nose because there's so much of it collecting on my lips and cheeks. It's pretty awful (and bizarre!). At least now I know why I always got dehydrated so easily. Anyway, yes, I will be thrilled when we can safely stop wearing masks. And if I can wear one in spite of all that, so can every other whiny pissant who pretends masks are too hard. :-)

[Tasse]

Masks are definitely annoying, I don't mean to discount any of the frustrations that have been listed. I work in person most days and wear one while doing so, and I have never mastered getting it not to fog up my glasses. It's just that it pales in emotional significance next to the fact that I haven't seen my family in a year.

[Dollar Slice]

Masks are definitely annoying, I don't mean to discount any of the frustrations that have been listed. I work in person most days and wear one while doing so, and I have never mastered getting it not to fog up my glasses. It's just that it pales in emotional significance next to the fact that I haven't seen my family in a year.

I forgot to even mention the glasses fogging! Arg! X-)  (That emoji represents me wandering around Manhattan blindly bumping into bicycles and dogs)

Yeah, I've been in a careful bubble with my closest family members, so it hasn't been that bad family-wise. I've actually spent way more time with them than usual since we isolate and then I go live with them for a week to make isolating worth our while, instead of just getting together for dinner occasionally like we normally would. I do really miss seeing my friends,  which I used to do multiple nights a week, but I've managed to see some of them outdoors here and there, and we keep in touch online. I would say most of my stress right now is from feeling unsafe around other people in my building, at the store, at the doctor's office, on the subway, etc. I am just desperate to be able to go out and not feel like someone could kill me with a sneeze.

[Sandi_k]

Vaccination is not a guarantee of safety from getting or transmitting the virus.

Until the second dose of the vaccine it's unknown how much protection a person has from covid.  Even after the second dose, one in twenty people who are fully vaccinated can still get coronavirus (the numbers aren't settled, but expected to be worse for the new mutations of coronavirus - estimates of around one in five have been put forth).

https://www.nejm.org/covid-vaccine/faq?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20210118&instance_id=26125&nl=the-morning&regi_id=116912467&segment_id=49584&te=1&user_id=87315a3db703b6268907da45684fef69


****

There are several good reasons to be optimistic about the vaccines’ effect on disease transmission. First, in the Moderna trial. opens in new tab, participants underwent nasopharyngeal swab PCR testing at baseline and again at week 4, when they returned for their second dose. Among those who were negative at baseline and without symptoms, 39 (0.3%) in the placebo group and 15 (0.1%) in the mRNA-1273 group had nasopharyngeal swabs that were positive for SARS-CoV-2 by PCR at week 4. These data suggest that even after one dose, the vaccine has a protective effect in preventing asymptomatic infection.

Second, findings from population-based studies now suggest that people without symptoms are less likely to transmit the virus to others. Third, it would be highly unlikely in biological terms for a vaccine to prevent disease and not also prevent infection. If there is an example of a vaccine in widespread clinical use that has this selective effect — prevents disease but not infection — I can’t think of one!

Some of my colleagues have now reminded me that certain vaccines (diphtheria, meningitis B, and pertussis) allow asymptomatic colonization, and no doubt this will sometimes be true about the Covid-19 vaccines. Plus, the protective effect will never be 100%, which is why while case numbers are still high, we still recommend the use of social distancing and masking in public. These caveats notwithstanding, the likelihood that these vaccines will reduce the capacity to transmit the virus to others remains excellent. (Last reviewed/updated on 18 Jan 2021)...

*****

[Dicey]

Just got back from my second visit with family this month.

However we already had it, and my parents are very ok with the risk. They would much rather see grandkids and get covid, then not see them for a year. They are only young once.

To each their own and all.

Perhaps if one could control their personal ability to avoid contracting Covid or passing it on to others, this would be a true statement.

We haven't seen our granddaughter for nearly a year. We could never forgive ourselves if we jeopardized the health and safety of her family.

DH and I are pretty sure we contracted covid after a cross-country trip in late February, but that doesn't give us a right to treat this pandemic or our fellow human beings with anything less than full respect.

[Imma]

Masks are definitely annoying, I don't mean to discount any of the frustrations that have been listed. I work in person most days and wear one while doing so, and I have never mastered getting it not to fog up my glasses. It's just that it pales in emotional significance next to the fact that I haven't seen my family in a year.

I actually found out that I don't really miss my family that much at all. But my family is complicated. We're not super close under normal circumstances. We lost our most important family member in March from Covid. I kind of appreciate being able to deal with my own massive grief without having to take everyone else's burden as well - that's what would have happened normally. I've still tried to support my family from a distance but I did not get anything back. When we still met up in person, those interactions were sometimes so overwhelming that afterwards I wasn't sure anymore what exactly had happened. It's more clear than ever now that my family is useless.

I do miss meeting up with some friends but we have been in touch through Skype and Whatsapp videocalls and that's been great.

I live in semi-permanent lockdown already because due to chronic illness I don't have much energy left after work. I don't have an extremely active social life. What I really miss is walking to a local coffeeshop for coffee and cake a few times a month. I didn't realize how much that meant to me.

I'll be happy to get rid of the masks too. I wear glasses so that's a struggle and I have a monthly treatment in a hospital a few hours by train away from home, which means I have to wear it 8 hours in a row including throughout my treatment. I feel short of breath and sometimes even close to fainting on those days but you can't get relief anywhere (that's from the mask + medical treatment combined, not just the mask). I even had to wear one while having an MRI and that was extremely uncomfortable. It's a small price to pay and I happily wear masks all the time but I'll be glad to get rid of them.

[Lomonossov]

I live 3,000 km away from my family and my old time friends. I saw my closest family in November 2019, I took the chance just before they started with the mandatory negative PCR tests and 10-days quarantine after arrival. It's been more than a year since I last visited not-so-close relatives or any friends. It's been tough for me, I was used to visit family and friends at least 3 or 4 times a year, including one long visit in summer and other in Christmas. Nothing like that happened this year, and it's hard to guess when it will happen again. It's the first time I feel that emigrating from my country has been a burden to keep in touch with my closest people.

On the upside, my GF and I decided to get married thanks to COVID. It's a bureaucratic nightmare to be someone's friend in a situation like this one, and we live like a married couple anyway. Weddings are not yet allowed, but we're hoping ours won't be cancelled and we can have it. Even better if my family and some common friends can attend, but that will depend on the evolution of the pandemic. International marriages require so much red tape that we prefer to get married before the closest family than to have to redo all the paperwork again.

Hopefully this year we will see the slowly return back to normal. I miss the people more than I thought I would, that has also been a discovery for me.

[GuitarStv]

Vaccination is not a guarantee of safety from getting or transmitting the virus.

Until the second dose of the vaccine it's unknown how much protection a person has from covid.  Even after the second dose, one in twenty people who are fully vaccinated can still get coronavirus (the numbers aren't settled, but expected to be worse for the new mutations of coronavirus - estimates of around one in five have been put forth).

https://www.nejm.org/covid-vaccine/faq?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20210118&instance_id=26125&nl=the-morning&regi_id=116912467&segment_id=49584&te=1&user_id=87315a3db703b6268907da45684fef69


****

There are several good reasons to be optimistic about the vaccines’ effect on disease transmission. First, in the Moderna trial. opens in new tab, participants underwent nasopharyngeal swab PCR testing at baseline and again at week 4, when they returned for their second dose. Among those who were negative at baseline and without symptoms, 39 (0.3%) in the placebo group and 15 (0.1%) in the mRNA-1273 group had nasopharyngeal swabs that were positive for SARS-CoV-2 by PCR at week 4. These data suggest that even after one dose, the vaccine has a protective effect in preventing asymptomatic infection.

Second, findings from population-based studies now suggest that people without symptoms are less likely to transmit the virus to others. Third, it would be highly unlikely in biological terms for a vaccine to prevent disease and not also prevent infection. If there is an example of a vaccine in widespread clinical use that has this selective effect — prevents disease but not infection — I can’t think of one!

Some of my colleagues have now reminded me that certain vaccines (diphtheria, meningitis B, and pertussis) allow asymptomatic colonization, and no doubt this will sometimes be true about the Covid-19 vaccines. Plus, the protective effect will never be 100%, which is why while case numbers are still high, we still recommend the use of social distancing and masking in public. These caveats notwithstanding, the likelihood that these vaccines will reduce the capacity to transmit the virus to others remains excellent. (Last reviewed/updated on 18 Jan 2021)...

*****

Nothing written here contradicts anything in my post.

[wenchsenior]

I'm confused that masks are the precaution people are excited about ditching. Masks have not negatively impacted my quality of life in any way; they are a mild nuisance, hardly the largest sacrifice I've made.

When recalibrating what risks I'll be willing to accept post-vaccination, "not wearing a mask anymore" never crossed my mind. I'm thinking, "expand my bubble to another vaccinated household."

What a wide variety of people we are.

Wearing masks (and yes, I do it) is actually the most bothersome precaution to me. It has definitely negatively impacted my mental health and my interaction with the wider world. It makes me feel very isolated and unseen.

Which is kinda funny because most of my work is in operating rooms where we wear them almost all the time anyway. In normal times, that was fine. In these times, it's verging on too much.

I'm not trying to be snarky.  I literally cannot figure out what you mean here.  Unless you are an actor or model etc., how does a mask make you feel isolated and unseen?  I barely even notice I'm wearing one anymore...

[Eowyn_MI]

I'm confused that masks are the precaution people are excited about ditching. Masks have not negatively impacted my quality of life in any way; they are a mild nuisance, hardly the largest sacrifice I've made.

When recalibrating what risks I'll be willing to accept post-vaccination, "not wearing a mask anymore" never crossed my mind. I'm thinking, "expand my bubble to another vaccinated household."

What a wide variety of people we are.

Wearing masks (and yes, I do it) is actually the most bothersome precaution to me. It has definitely negatively impacted my mental health and my interaction with the wider world. It makes me feel very isolated and unseen.

Which is kinda funny because most of my work is in operating rooms where we wear them almost all the time anyway. In normal times, that was fine. In these times, it's verging on too much.

I'm not trying to be snarky.  I literally cannot figure out what you mean here.  Unless you are an actor or model etc., how does a mask make you feel isolated and unseen?  I barely even notice I'm wearing one anymore...

Masks make me feel isolated and unseen as well. 

Here is an example that you might be able to understand: in pre-covid times I would frequently make eye contact with total strangers in a grocery store and exchange a quick smile.  This acknowledges that I've seen the other person and they've seen me.  It gives me a good feeling to know that even a stranger is willing to take that extra second to be pleasant to other people around them.

Now, when everyone is wearing a mask it's like they aren't even human anymore.  People in the grocery store are just obstacles to be navigated around; 6 ft. apart of course.

Masks prevent me from immediately recognizing the humanity of another person.  It's not a good change.

[ixtap]

I find that if you nod, most will nod back.

It really surprised me how many people seem unable to recognize even friends in a mask, but then that always struck me as odd for masquerade balls, as well. I think it is like people who claim that can't understand anyone. Many of us look and listen differently when we have a mask on. It is a word we have long used to describe psychological barriers.

[NotJen]

I'm confused that masks are the precaution people are excited about ditching. Masks have not negatively impacted my quality of life in any way; they are a mild nuisance, hardly the largest sacrifice I've made.

When recalibrating what risks I'll be willing to accept post-vaccination, "not wearing a mask anymore" never crossed my mind. I'm thinking, "expand my bubble to another vaccinated household."

I agree.  I am so ready to see my family again, I don't even care if I'm still wearing masks everywhere.

Masks make me feel isolated and unseen as well. 

Here is an example that you might be able to understand: in pre-covid times I would frequently make eye contact with total strangers in a grocery store and exchange a quick smile.  This acknowledges that I've seen the other person and they've seen me.  It gives me a good feeling to know that even a stranger is willing to take that extra second to be pleasant to other people around them.

Now, when everyone is wearing a mask it's like they aren't even human anymore.  People in the grocery store are just obstacles to be navigated around; 6 ft. apart of course.

Masks prevent me from immediately recognizing the humanity of another person.  It's not a good change.

Interesting.  I find myself still making eye contact with people, and making facial expressions under my mask.  I feel like even with part of my face covered, there are still enough visual cues to tell if a person is smiling and being friendly - there are accompanying motions like nods and head tilts - lots of information and personality can still be conveyed with a mask.  At first things were a little awkward, but many months later, I've at least adjusted; masks seem very human.

[nereo]

This may sound weird, but both dislike wearing a mask (mostly because it fogs my glasses and can be very uncomfortable after several hours) but I also am not looking forward to it going away. There's a part of me that likes having a mask on in public. I tend to stand out in any crowd, and the mask helps me feel like I'm standing out a bit less.  I've also been told by multiple people that my expression can come across as incredulous, when normally I'm thinking about something else entirely (a variant of "resting bitch face" maybe?).  A mask makes my face more neutral, and people seem to concentrate on my words more.  Most of all I like how it's become acceptable to cover your face in public.

Does anyone else share unexpected feelings towards wearing a mask?

[GuitarStv]

I wear a mask, but hate everything about it and will be glad when it goes.

- My glasses fog up (not too bad in the summer where I've found ways to control it, fucking awful in winter).
- I constantly feel like I'm suffocating
- the rubbing and material touching my face makes my skin break out all the time
- It's hard to talk to others, they don't always hear what you have to say
- It's harder to communicate with others.  There's a surprising amount of info that's transmitted by facial expression.


Social distancing is fine, and in many instances preferable to what we did in the before times though.  I hate other humans being in close proximity to me, and it has been lovely to be socially allowed to go out of my way to avoid others while walking on the sidewalk.

[MoseyingAlong]

I'm confused that masks are the precaution people are excited about ditching. Masks have not negatively impacted my quality of life in any way; they are a mild nuisance, hardly the largest sacrifice I've made.....

What a wide variety of people we are.

Wearing masks (and yes, I do it) is actually the most bothersome precaution to me. It has definitely negatively impacted my mental health and my interaction with the wider world. It makes me feel very isolated and unseen.
....

I'm not trying to be snarky.  I literally cannot figure out what you mean here.  Unless you are an actor or model etc., how does a mask make you feel isolated and unseen?  I barely even notice I'm wearing one anymore...

Masks make me feel isolated and unseen as well. 

Here is an example that you might be able to understand: in pre-covid times I would frequently make eye contact with total strangers in a grocery store and exchange a quick smile.  This acknowledges that I've seen the other person and they've seen me.  It gives me a good feeling to know that even a stranger is willing to take that extra second to be pleasant to other people around them.

Now, when everyone is wearing a mask it's like they aren't even human anymore.  People in the grocery store are just obstacles to be navigated around; 6 ft. apart of course.

Masks prevent me from immediately recognizing the humanity of another person.  It's not a good change.

@Eowynd I see you.
That's a good way to explain it.

As someone who lives alone, it is very isolating not to see people's faces and to know that my face is not seen. Yes, I'm in touch with many friends and family but that is not the same to me as in-person interactions. In normal times, I talk to people on the phone basically to keep in touch until I can see them again. If I will never see you in-person again, I also probably will never call you. I hate talking on the phone. In many ways, talking thru masks has some of the separation that phone conversations have.

I go back to "What a wide variety of people we are."
And @wenchsenior I am happy for you that you do not experience this. I hope that you give room to others' lived experiences. Thank you for asking what I meant. I don't feel that I've explained it well but it's a strong feeling that is getting more and more disheartening as time goes by.

[nereo]

OTOH - I've interviewed for a half-dozen positions during Covid and I did not like facing a panel-interview where I couldn't see anyone's face.  It did make me focus a lot more on the quality of my answers (after bombing the first two interview), but my nervousness was ramped up to an entirely new level.

[mm1970]

Just got back from my second visit with family this month.

However we already had it, and my parents are very ok with the risk. They would much rather see grandkids and get covid, then not see them for a year. They are only young once.

To each their own and all.

Perhaps if one could control their personal ability to avoid contracting Covid or passing it on to others, this would be a true statement.

We haven't seen our granddaughter for nearly a year. We could never forgive ourselves if we jeopardized the health and safety of her family.

DH and I are pretty sure we contracted covid after a cross-country trip in late February, but that doesn't give us a right to treat this pandemic or our fellow human beings with anything less than full respect.

Same.  It's confounding that people cannot make the connection about how THEIR actions will affect OTHERS, not just themselves.

On Masks:
I can see why people look forward to not wearing them.  I think it's a few things, for me:
1.  I only wear them outside the house, which for me these days is when I'm running and walking.  While I've gotten used to running/ walking with a mask, it's not my favorite thing.  Fogging up the glasses being the biggest annoyance.
2.  It IS hard to recognize people in a mask. I wore a mask at work (semiconductor fab) for over 20 years.  I got used to wearing a mask for 6-10 hours a day.  It got to the point where I couldn't recognize people OUT of the mask until I really looked at their eyes.
3.  Feeling unseen - meh, I wave at people when I'm out running/walking.

[koziknight]

We last saw my mother-in-law at Christmas 2019. Luckily she's been as diligent as wanting to stay safe as we are to keep her as such. We saw my parents, brother and SIL in July 2020, but it was outdoors (in their driveway, much to their disappointment we wouldn't go inside). Luckily my parents started taking things more seriously and were the ones to suggest not gathering for Thanksgiving or Christmas in 2020. (Little did they know we weren't going to go either way.) Hoping for at least a drive-by to say hello again sometime this year (3-hour drive).

[wenchsenior]

I'm confused that masks are the precaution people are excited about ditching. Masks have not negatively impacted my quality of life in any way; they are a mild nuisance, hardly the largest sacrifice I've made.

When recalibrating what risks I'll be willing to accept post-vaccination, "not wearing a mask anymore" never crossed my mind. I'm thinking, "expand my bubble to another vaccinated household."

I agree.  I am so ready to see my family again, I don't even care if I'm still wearing masks everywhere.

Masks make me feel isolated and unseen as well. 

Here is an example that you might be able to understand: in pre-covid times I would frequently make eye contact with total strangers in a grocery store and exchange a quick smile.  This acknowledges that I've seen the other person and they've seen me.  It gives me a good feeling to know that even a stranger is willing to take that extra second to be pleasant to other people around them.

Now, when everyone is wearing a mask it's like they aren't even human anymore.  People in the grocery store are just obstacles to be navigated around; 6 ft. apart of course.

Masks prevent me from immediately recognizing the humanity of another person.  It's not a good change.

Interesting.  I find myself still making eye contact with people, and making facial expressions under my mask.  I feel like even with part of my face covered, there are still enough visual cues to tell if a person is smiling and being friendly - there are accompanying motions like nods and head tilts - lots of information and personality can still be conveyed with a mask.  At first things were a little awkward, but many months later, I've at least adjusted; masks seem very human.

Yes, this is how I feel. I mean, I'm not at all inclined to go around making eye contact with strangers in the store just because. However, I've had no problem reading visual cues with masked people that I see semi-regularly (store checkout, gym front desk, etc). And I can 'read' and communicate with anyone I have a close relationship with just fine with masks on.

I wonder if this is another one of those mysterious extrovert vs introvert differences/barriers? 

[wenchsenior]

This may sound weird, but both dislike wearing a mask (mostly because it fogs my glasses and can be very uncomfortable after several hours) but I also am not looking forward to it going away. There's a part of me that likes having a mask on in public. I tend to stand out in any crowd, and the mask helps me feel like I'm standing out a bit less.  I've also been told by multiple people that my expression can come across as incredulous, when normally I'm thinking about something else entirely (a variant of "resting bitch face" maybe?).  A mask makes my face more neutral, and people seem to concentrate on my words more.  Most of all I like how it's become acceptable to cover your face in public.

Does anyone else share unexpected feelings towards wearing a mask?

I don't have strong positive feelings toward masking, but I also don't care if random people look at me...I only care about that if I know someone well.  Being looked at in public doesn't play any role in my sense of self (except for a short period of time in my late teens and early twenties when we all sort of test-drive our identities a bit, and I was on the dating market then, so it was sort of 'advertisement' in a way).  I do LOVE having more physical space, though...strangers up close to me is not fun at all.

[wenchsenior]

I'm confused that masks are the precaution people are excited about ditching. Masks have not negatively impacted my quality of life in any way; they are a mild nuisance, hardly the largest sacrifice I've made.....

What a wide variety of people we are.

Wearing masks (and yes, I do it) is actually the most bothersome precaution to me. It has definitely negatively impacted my mental health and my interaction with the wider world. It makes me feel very isolated and unseen.
....

I'm not trying to be snarky.  I literally cannot figure out what you mean here.  Unless you are an actor or model etc., how does a mask make you feel isolated and unseen?  I barely even notice I'm wearing one anymore...

Masks make me feel isolated and unseen as well. 

Here is an example that you might be able to understand: in pre-covid times I would frequently make eye contact with total strangers in a grocery store and exchange a quick smile.  This acknowledges that I've seen the other person and they've seen me.  It gives me a good feeling to know that even a stranger is willing to take that extra second to be pleasant to other people around them.

Now, when everyone is wearing a mask it's like they aren't even human anymore.  People in the grocery store are just obstacles to be navigated around; 6 ft. apart of course.

Masks prevent me from immediately recognizing the humanity of another person.  It's not a good change.

@Eowynd I see you.
That's a good way to explain it.

As someone who lives alone, it is very isolating not to see people's faces and to know that my face is not seen. Yes, I'm in touch with many friends and family but that is not the same to me as in-person interactions. In normal times, I talk to people on the phone basically to keep in touch until I can see them again. If I will never see you in-person again, I also probably will never call you. I hate talking on the phone. In many ways, talking thru masks has some of the separation that phone conversations have.

I go back to "What a wide variety of people we are."
And @wenchsenior I am happy for you that you do not experience this. I hope that you give room to others' lived experiences. Thank you for asking what I meant. I don't feel that I've explained it well but it's a strong feeling that is getting more and more disheartening as time goes by.

Yeah, just b/c I can't relate to this at all doesn't mean your experience isn't valid.

I DID think of one way our experiences might be crossing over each other a bit though.  Although I don't have any general trouble humanizing people with masks, there is one exception.  If I see anyone NOT masked, my automatic assumption is that they are a selfish asshole and not worth my attention or time.  So that's a definite dehumanizing reaction, though it's to LACKING a mask.

[dignam]

I haven't seen either grandmother in over a year.  Only seen nieces/nephews maybe once or twice in the past year; Christmas was done via Zoom.  I see my parents almost every weekend, but it's outdoors at a dog park.  They signed up today to get their vaccines (WI started allowing 65+ to get them; mom turns 65 tomorrow!).

Once they're vaccinated I'll be more open to their invitations to come over (my girlfriend has already gotten both vaccine doses).

[soccerluvof4]

We have avoided anything that wasnt outside and with masks and distancing. Ironically we did just book today for 5 of us to fly to Florida April 1st for My Fathers 80th B-day and 50th Wedding Anniversary. So hoping things really calm down from now till then.

[Sandi_k]

Vaccination is not a guarantee of safety from getting or transmitting the virus.

Until the second dose of the vaccine it's unknown how much protection a person has from covid.  Even after the second dose, one in twenty people who are fully vaccinated can still get coronavirus (the numbers aren't settled, but expected to be worse for the new mutations of coronavirus - estimates of around one in five have been put forth).

https://www.nejm.org/covid-vaccine/faq?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20210118&instance_id=26125&nl=the-morning&regi_id=116912467&segment_id=49584&te=1&user_id=87315a3db703b6268907da45684fef69


****

There are several good reasons to be optimistic about the vaccines’ effect on disease transmission. First, in the Moderna trial. opens in new tab, participants underwent nasopharyngeal swab PCR testing at baseline and again at week 4, when they returned for their second dose. Among those who were negative at baseline and without symptoms, 39 (0.3%) in the placebo group and 15 (0.1%) in the mRNA-1273 group had nasopharyngeal swabs that were positive for SARS-CoV-2 by PCR at week 4. These data suggest that even after one dose, the vaccine has a protective effect in preventing asymptomatic infection.

Second, findings from population-based studies now suggest that people without symptoms are less likely to transmit the virus to others. Third, it would be highly unlikely in biological terms for a vaccine to prevent disease and not also prevent infection. If there is an example of a vaccine in widespread clinical use that has this selective effect — prevents disease but not infection — I can’t think of one!

Some of my colleagues have now reminded me that certain vaccines (diphtheria, meningitis B, and pertussis) allow asymptomatic colonization, and no doubt this will sometimes be true about the Covid-19 vaccines. Plus, the protective effect will never be 100%, which is why while case numbers are still high, we still recommend the use of social distancing and masking in public. These caveats notwithstanding, the likelihood that these vaccines will reduce the capacity to transmit the virus to others remains excellent. (Last reviewed/updated on 18 Jan 2021)...

*****

Nothing written here contradicts anything in my post.

Dude, deep breath. I wasn't contradicting you, just adding to the knowledge base.