The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: Shwaa on January 13, 2021, 07:11:46 PM
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I know there was a lot of ppl who avoided holiday gatherings with family, even family that was relatively local to them. I am just curious if you are still holding out on seeing them? Or has the new year eased your views on spending time with them?
I haven't seen my family (only about an hour away from me) since September. I feel badly but just not sure what to do, as I do go out for groceries, Dr appts etc. My 75 year old mom is over there too and I would rather wait until she is vaccinated at least.
Just wondering how others are handling this currently...
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I haven't seen my mom and stepdad since August, or any other out of state relatives. It's been rough. We did go to see my brother and SIL who live closer. They are both lower risk and all adults wore masks. We opted out of hosting my other SILs brood for Christmas because it would have been a large gathering with too many exposure risks.
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Still avoiding unless I can sit in the yard while they sit on their porch.
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I go with whatever other people are comfortable with, since for me personally, I don't really care if I get COVID one way or another. The vast majority of our circle haven't wanted to do things in person for the last couple of months, which is fine - we don't normally socialize a ton in the winter, regardless, because usually for us socializing is something we do outdoors, and it is shitty outside here right now.
So I suppose I haven't been avoiding people on purpose, it's just happened coincidentally.
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Still avoiding. We did Xmas gift drop offs in the family garages. Short and outdoors. Part of the family gathered as normal. No sickness among them but still we don't want the risk of giving or getting COVID.
3500+ deaths per day? Still taking COVID seriously.
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Yes. I have several elderly and immunocompromised family members. The most face to face contact we've had are a couple of socially distanced drop offs to exchange Christmas gifts.
We keep in touch through the internet: chats, calls, food gifts "just because."
The way I see it, we're making the sacrifices now, so that we get the chance to see them in person for many more years in the future.
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Not sure what an arbitrary date on the calendar has to do with anything...
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I’m in Australia. We probably have more stringent regulations than you. But they’ve kept us relatively safe.
The state where I live has had no cases for about 190 days. Some of my family are in a hotspot (there have been about 70 cases in a city of over 4 million people), so I can’t see them at the moment and they’re in lockdown. Some of my family is in a state where there have been no cases for about 170 days. I’d need to fly to see them and quarantine for 14 days so I can’t see them either.
We live close to the border with another state and some of the places I shop at are a mile away, over the border. There’s been no cases there, but there have been some cases in the state (it’s bigger than Texas). I can go and shop there.
However, soon I need to see my parents who are in their 90s to sort out some problems they’ve got. There haven’t been any cases in their state for a few weeks, but I can’t get a border permit and visit them if I go shopping across the border. And when I do go to see them, I’ll need to wear a mask most of the time. I’ll also need to load down an app to my phone, so that every time I visit somewhere in that state, I can record that I’ve been there for contact tracing (this is the same in every state but there’s a different app in each state)
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I already survived COVID. Spent three nights at my elderly parents' house over Xmas.
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The virus is spreading by leaps and bounds. Apparently it doesn’t care that it’s a new year. Yes, I am avoiding family and friends.
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I saw some family around Christmas, but I've still been pretty minimal in contact, both in group size (just 2 parents on one side, 4 family members on the in-law side) and frequency, generally seeing my parents maybe once a week or less and my in-laws barely even once a month. My only child lives out of state and I likely won't see him until I've had the vaccine at a minimum, and I will hope that he gets the vaccine too but he's young and feels invincible so I've already accepted that most likely he won't bother, since he hates doctor visits anyway.
So short version - I've seriously reduced the number and frequency of family visits but not cut off family entirely.
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We saw MIL for about 10 minutes as she dropped off Christmas gifts for our kids in the garage. A few hours later we were notified that DH had been exposed (but not close contact) at work. I expect that will be the last time we see any family until all 4 of my immediate family have been vaccinated. And we didn’t even truly intend to see her, DH was taking out the dog when she stopped by.
I could never live with myself if we had taken this virus to one of the family members and they ended up sick or dead. So I will be as cautious as I possibly can until the vaccine distribution is such that the transmission rate is very low.
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Yes. And this is how we avoided giving it to them when Covid burned through our house.
I also thought I didn’t care if I got it. After spending the past six days in a state of steady post-Covid mental fog and headache, and the previous 6 days in bed in physical agony, I sincerely wish I hadn’t gotten it.
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I haven't seen any family members outside my immediate household since March. I live in CA, where the pandemic is raging. Why should I decide see them now? I really don't understand this question.
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Yes, I’m still avoiding my family. I’m an essential worker, and I’ve been out and about since March. I couldn’t live with the consequences of bringing COVID to my elderly dad and aunt. I don’t really get the question.
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I haven't seen any family members outside my immediate household since March. I live in CA, where the pandemic is raging. Why should I decide see them now? I really don't understand this question.
It could be any number of reasons, like pandemic fatigue, missing family, boredom, guilt, frustration.
Unfortunately, the virus doesn't care that it's already 2021.
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I am not avoiding family because of COVID. I am keeping family safe due to COVID. Plenty of family that I am avoiding because I can't stand the non stop non sense they insist on spouting regarding national politics and the particular evils of anyone and anything who is to the left of OANN.
You can tell the difference by how often I call to chat, even if I don't see either.
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This is the highest number of cases and deaths the US has had during the whole pandemic, plus the new more-contagious UK variant is starting to spread here, so I can't even imagine letting up on precautions now. My parents and I were seeing each other once a month or so (in a bubble where we didn't see anyone else) from June-Oct when numbers were pretty low here, but in November/December we only saw each other after isolating and testing negative. Now I think we will wait for vaccinations before seeing each other again. My parents are getting their first doses this week.
If I've learned anything in the past year, it's that I can't trust anyone on this planet to care enough to keep me safe except myself. People are selfish assholes. I have multiple high risk medical conditions plus multiple undiagnosed and potentially serious conditions that have cropped up recently, and I do not under any circumstances want COVID. This has not stopped numerous people from casually endangering me, because apparently a lot of people are fucking sociopaths who don't care if they spread a deadly disease.
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It was impossible not to see my family, and then we gave them Covid. We were lucky that we all survived, but we are all still recovering over a month later. If we could have avoided seeing them we would’ve, but we cohabitate.
Now is the best time to keep family members safe and avoid contact. Vaccines are being given out to elderly, so let’s get this done.
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I haven't seen any of my family members in over a year now. My youngest sibling is nine years old. It sucks. But the pandemic situation is worse than it was at Christmas, not better. Now is not the time to reverse course.
I just got my first vaccine dose today. I would consider flying to see them after I get the second, but I will likely wait for my partner and dad to get it as well.
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It was impossible not to see my family, and then we gave them Covid. We were lucky that we all survived, but we are all still recovering over a month later. If we could have avoided seeing them we would’ve, but we cohabitate.
Now is the best time to keep family members safe and avoid contact. Vaccines are being given out to elderly, so let’s get this done.
In retrospect, do you think it was really impossible not to see your family?
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With cases where they're at, you are statistically more likely to get COVID now than at any time before. And if you're unlucky enough to live in an area where hospitals are overwhelmed there is additional risk for a worse outcome there as well. We haven't seen family since the beginning of July and I don't see that changing any time soon.
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Not anymore, but I didn't see family in person between mid June and late October.
Fortunately the Covid situation here has eased significantly.
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Yes of course I'm avoiding family outside my immediate household. Why would I pick the time that the virus prevalence is at its highest levels to hop on a plane to visit and potentially kill them? That seems rather dumb, to put it mildly.
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I still avoid family, but my family is meeting up without me all the time. They know what Covid can do, we've had a death in our family, but they feel like they can't go on not seeing each other. I don't get it.
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Other than my spouse, I've seen no friends or family since March. I won't see anyone until both parties are vaccinated.
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We are in the gradual process of merging our household with other family members in another state.
We spent a month over the holidays at the “new house” together (we moved a first round of stuff up there.)
We all stayed home pretty strictly for 10 days ahead of time. 3 of the adults had Covid tests. We made the 9 hour drive with only 1 stop. While there, we went to the grocery store once/week.
I guess there was some level of increased risk involved, but it seemed very minor.
Dh and I are the people at risk if we get it, and we felt comfortable doing this.
OTOH, I haven’t seen my dd who lives locally since the beginning of December, but she got her first dose of vaccine last week.
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I have regularly seen my parents since the beginning even though I’m an essential worker. I leave the decision up to them and they are comfortable with it. We basically are a pod but all of us do go outside the home for either work or volunteering, my parents spend 2 mornings a week working at local food banks. All of us follow social distancing rules and wear masks when doing these activities. We all, as of yesterday morning, have received our first dose of the vaccine.
I’ve been quarantined by work for 14 days due to exposure, that is the only time I didn’t specifically see them so far. I also get tested on a semi regular basis. (Work has criteria based on various factors but not time). It’s been 6 days since my last negative test, there was a week in October when I was tested 3 times.
On the other hand, my sister lives out of state and we have not seen her or my BIL since the beginning.
ETA: I have tons of extended family in the area, I’ve not seen them since the beginning and no big family get together which usually are a semi regular event.
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Yes. I have seen no out of state relatives for over a year. In state relatives are 80+ years old, so we have seen them only outdoors, masked, for brief periods of time roughly once a week during the past year. One is on his way to being fully vaccinated so that may change things.
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Yes. There have been a handful of times where they will come over mask on entire time with windows open but that is rare and usually 1-3 people that don't live in the house.
To note, the handful of times have been since March.
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I haven't seen any of my family members in over a year now. My youngest sibling is nine years old. It sucks. But the pandemic situation is worse than it was at Christmas, not better. Now is not the time to reverse course.
I just got my first vaccine dose today. I would consider flying to see them after I get the second, but I will likely wait for my partner and dad to get it as well.
Aren't we still unsure if those with the vax can still spread it?
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To the OP - generally you aren't going to get people on here to admit to being nonchalant about the virus, so most responses you'll end up seeing will be some flavor of "absolutely not" to "we do, but with x,y,or z precaution". Of course, that's not going to be inclusive of all responses, but there's going to be a bit of an echo chamber.
Me? We see my in-laws regularly. Covid burned through their house a couple months ago, and while they're generally skeptical/blasé about the seriousness of the pandemic they were kind enough to inform us well ahead of time that there was suspected or confirmed cases. We avoided them during those periods, but otherwise my in-laws are in their mid 50's and very healthy.
We also see my parents, but they live out of state. When they come, they stay in our place and don't really leave so essentially self-quarantining. They're also mid-50's and relatively healthy. They're even more skeptical of the nature of the pandemic and early on we decided that for my, my wife's, and ours kids' mental health, we would continue to see both sets of our parents.
I understand this is not a popular approach, that some may be seriously abhorred by our willingness to see our parents, but I'm just laying the cards out in all honesty and won't argue with anyone or try to do mental gymnastics to justify our actions as 'acceptable'.
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I know there was a lot of ppl who avoided holiday gatherings with family, even family that was relatively local to them. I am just curious if you are still holding out on seeing them? Or has the new year eased your views on spending time with them?
I haven't seen my family (only about an hour away from me) since September. I feel badly but just not sure what to do, as I do go out for groceries, Dr appts etc. My 75 year old mom is over there too and I would rather wait until she is vaccinated at least.
Just wondering how others are handling this currently...
I would like to visit my sister.
I don't want to drive to her home and back, a distance of ~500 miles.
I'd take a train which I like a lot but I'm not going to because I don't want to mix with the public in train stations or on the train.
So my visit remains on hold.
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No. Never stopped spending time with family to begin with so i cant admit to still be avoiding family. Over xmas we travelled via air to visit a large swath of our extended family. While my diabetic aged MIL took gravely ill during the visit, not a single other family member, including my nuclear family developed any illness. One family member decided to get covid tested on 3 successive days during the festivities with results of negative, positive, then negative.
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No. Never stopped spending time with family to begin with so i cant admit to still be avoiding family. Over xmas we travelled via air to visit a large swath of our extended family. While my diabetic aged MIL took gravely ill during the visit, not a single other family member, including my nuclear family developed any illness. One family member decided to get covid tested on 3 successive days during the festivities with results of negative, positive, then negative.
Guessing those were the rapid tests then? They from last I checked had a 30% false negative result
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This is the highest number of cases and deaths the US has had during the whole pandemic, plus the new more-contagious UK variant is starting to spread here, so I can't even imagine letting up on precautions now. My parents and I were seeing each other once a month or so (in a bubble where we didn't see anyone else) from June-Oct when numbers were pretty low here, but in November/December we only saw each other after isolating and testing negative. Now I think we will wait for vaccinations before seeing each other again. My parents are getting their first doses this week. ...
In the UK our daily deaths are up 50% in a week and we are running out of space in some morgues. Hospitals are full to bursting with Covid patients, overflowing into hotels and rationing oxygen. I can't say how much is definitely due to the new variant; but it isn't good.
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We quarantined for 2 weeks so that we could see my parents over Christmas which was amazing. I had not hugged my dad in 6 months. Both are high risk. We haven't seen my in-laws since last March except over FaceTime. We were willing to quarantine but they felt uncomfortable, which I understand. I'm really upset because my office just announced that people at my level have to return to the office 3 days per week starting Feb 1 so that takes away any ability to quarantine. I want this shit to be over so I can hug my peeps again.
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Generally yes. My parents and in-laws are all elderly, my dad has cancer, and my MIL has some significant health issues.
We did visit briefly with my parents on Christmas while everyone was fully masked, with no physical contact. We visited the in-laws last summer when local case numbers and transmission rates were low and we'd all been isolating.
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This is the highest number of cases and deaths the US has had during the whole pandemic, plus the new more-contagious UK variant is starting to spread here, so I can't even imagine letting up on precautions now. My parents and I were seeing each other once a month or so (in a bubble where we didn't see anyone else) from June-Oct when numbers were pretty low here, but in November/December we only saw each other after isolating and testing negative. Now I think we will wait for vaccinations before seeing each other again. My parents are getting their first doses this week. ...
In the UK our daily deaths are up 50% in a week and we are running out of space in some morgues. Hospitals are full to bursting with Covid patients, overflowing into hotels and rationing oxygen. I can't say how much is definitely due to the new variant; but it isn't good.
I'm so sorry. We were in that situation here last April, and it was very scary. Please stay safe.
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My son's school was shut down three weeks before Christmas because of a covid outbreak . . . and my wife and I are both working 100% from home for now. So, since we all effectively quarantined for 3 weeks before Christmas we went and visited my mom (who lives on her own) over the holidays.
Other than that though, we haven't really seen any family.
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It was impossible not to see my family, and then we gave them Covid. We were lucky that we all survived, but we are all still recovering over a month later. If we could have avoided seeing them we would’ve, but we cohabitate.
Now is the best time to keep family members safe and avoid contact. Vaccines are being given out to elderly, so let’s get this done.
In retrospect, do you think it was really impossible not to see your family?
That sounds unnecessarily harsh - did you miss the bolded? I would consider it nigh-impossible to avoid seeing people who live in the same house.
Yes, I am still avoiding all family and friends. We saw my MIL in person after a 7-day quarantine during the holidays, but no visits since then. Why would we stop protecting them now, when case counts are still rising and we're more exposed than ever thanks to DH being required to return to in-person work?
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HELL YES we're avoiding family and friends.
The epidemic is in full swing. The US is getting a million new cases every 4 to 5 days. Over 4100 US deaths yesterday.
We'll hit 24 MILLION cases and 400,000 deaths in a few days.
Hospitals are either filling up or overflowing. Some locations are just telling medics not to bother to bring in folks already in bad shape, leave them to die where they are.
Some are putting their patients in the gift shops because they need the room.
I'll wager quite a few of them are stacking the corpses in refrigerated trucks because the funeral homes are full. If they aren't in your area, they may well be soon.
AND it didn't have to be this way. Based on deaths per million population, we have done 51.5 times worse than South Korea and 237.2 times worse than New Zealand. Instead of 393,000 deaths we could have had less than two thousand if we had done as well as New Zealand or less than 7500 if we had matched South Korea's response. And we could have if Trump and other Republicans hadn't screwed our response up so much.
We've had a 2.74% death rate so far, based on deaths / (deaths + recovered) cases. That's way worse than the flu.
The Lowes in my area still has a 50% mask compliance rate. I see people not wearing masks or not wearing them properly everywhere I have to go. It's maddening.
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It was impossible not to see my family, and then we gave them Covid. We were lucky that we all survived, but we are all still recovering over a month later. If we could have avoided seeing them we would’ve, but we cohabitate.
Now is the best time to keep family members safe and avoid contact. Vaccines are being given out to elderly, so let’s get this done.
In retrospect, do you think it was really impossible not to see your family?
That sounds unnecessarily harsh - did you miss the bolded? I would consider it nigh-impossible to avoid seeing people who live in the same house.
Yes, in retrospect still really think it was impossible since we live together. Rather than give the details to justify (More for privacy reasons), I’ll leave it as there truly was no other option; even in the home we kept a distance, but there are kids that love to run around. You do what you can, but it doesn’t always work out as planned. Just grateful to be alive and have my family safe. The most at risk have started first rounds of vaccines yay!
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The Lowes in my area still has a 50% mask compliance rate. I see people not wearing masks or not wearing them properly everywhere I have to go. It's maddening.
that's quite stunning but not sure why I"m shocked still.
does lowes not have a mask policy or just no enforced? We sure have become one selfish disgusting culture.
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It was impossible not to see my family, and then we gave them Covid. We were lucky that we all survived, but we are all still recovering over a month later. If we could have avoided seeing them we would’ve, but we cohabitate.
Now is the best time to keep family members safe and avoid contact. Vaccines are being given out to elderly, so let’s get this done.
In retrospect, do you think it was really impossible not to see your family?
That sounds unnecessarily harsh - did you miss the bolded? I would consider it nigh-impossible to avoid seeing people who live in the same house.
I responded primarily to the dramatic structure of the first sentence. "Cohabitate" is commonly used to refer to partners, not family members. And of course, the bolded wasn't bolded originally. It was confusingly worded. My question was asked politely and my curiosity was genuine.
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Yes. Too many of my family members still have to go into work (public school teachers where classes are hybrid, transit employees, etc.). And they live in another state that is also quite cold in the winter, so I can't easily just see them outdoors with space between us because if I traveled to them I would need to stay overnight. Facetime and Zoom is working for now. Some of my siblings seem to be totally over COVID precautions and are acting like life is normal with my parents, visiting them whenever they want indoors, which is frustrating. But I can't control them, and God forbid the worst happens, at least I will be dealing only with grief and not also with guilt for giving them something myself. But, it seems like there's a light at the end of the tunnel as 3 of my family members should be up for a vaccination this month.
My boyfriend's parents, on the other hand, live in our mild climate city and have a good-sized yard, so we see them once a week or so outside with masks on.
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This is the highest number of cases and deaths the US has had during the whole pandemic, plus the new more-contagious UK variant is starting to spread here, so I can't even imagine letting up on precautions now. My parents and I were seeing each other once a month or so (in a bubble where we didn't see anyone else) from June-Oct when numbers were pretty low here, but in November/December we only saw each other after isolating and testing negative. Now I think we will wait for vaccinations before seeing each other again. My parents are getting their first doses this week. ...
In the UK our daily deaths are up 50% in a week and we are running out of space in some morgues. Hospitals are full to bursting with Covid patients, overflowing into hotels and rationing oxygen. I can't say how much is definitely due to the new variant; but it isn't good.
I'm so sorry. We were in that situation here last April, and it was very scary. Please stay safe.
You are very kind, thank you. I mention it to highlight the additional risk that the UK variant brings to other countries that it has or will spread to. We thought we'd seen the worse of it in April last year but this wave is hospitalising and killing more people.
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The Lowes in my area still has a 50% mask compliance rate. I see people not wearing masks or not wearing them properly everywhere I have to go. It's maddening.
that's quite stunning but not sure why I"m shocked still.
does lowes not have a mask policy or just no enforced? We sure have become one selfish disgusting culture.
We have a state mask mandate, and loads of people don’t wear masks, at least as I hear from people who do go into stores. (I last went into a grocery store locally in October.) It is maddening, but who is going to tell some potentially armed idiot to wear that mask? I don’t blame the grocery store employees.
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I haven't seen any of my family members in over a year now. My youngest sibling is nine years old. It sucks. But the pandemic situation is worse than it was at Christmas, not better. Now is not the time to reverse course.
I just got my first vaccine dose today. I would consider flying to see them after I get the second, but I will likely wait for my partner and dad to get it as well.
Aren't we still unsure if those with the vax can still spread it?
If true, wouldn't that mean we'll never have herd immunity?
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I haven't seen any of my family members in over a year now. My youngest sibling is nine years old. It sucks. But the pandemic situation is worse than it was at Christmas, not better. Now is not the time to reverse course.
I just got my first vaccine dose today. I would consider flying to see them after I get the second, but I will likely wait for my partner and dad to get it as well.
Aren't we still unsure if those with the vax can still spread it?
If true, wouldn't that mean we'll never have herd immunity?
Not sure, but if someone has been vaxxed they are highly unlikely to suffer more than mild symptoms which at this point is still very hopeful.
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The Lowes in my area still has a 50% mask compliance rate. I see people not wearing masks or not wearing them properly everywhere I have to go. It's maddening.
that's quite stunning but not sure why I"m shocked still.
does lowes not have a mask policy or just no enforced? We sure have become one selfish disgusting culture.
We have a state mask mandate, and loads of people don’t wear masks, at least as I hear from people who do go into stores. (I last went into a grocery store locally in October.) It is maddening, but who is going to tell some potentially armed idiot to wear that mask? I don’t blame the grocery store employees.
I have a local store where I see people not wearing masks (obviously no enforcement by employees, etc.) so I wrote a Yelp review saying "I used to go here all the time, it's a great store, but I stopped because I don't feel safe" and explained about the masks, COVID, I don't blame the employees but they need to hire someone to do enforcement, they're endangering their staff as well as the customers, yadda yadda. The store manager wrote back and said they'll look into it and they take COVID safety seriously, blah blah. Maybe they'll do something. Who knows. Can't hurt. It's probably hopeless in some areas, but here (NYC) most places are very good about it, so it shouldn't be that hard to get near-100% mask enforcement in your business.
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I'm over 3 weeks in since my first dose of vaccine, and I'm still avoiding family over the winter. Of course, most of them have not received the vaccination, and I could potentially still be a carrier, despite being vaccinated.
Everyone should be avoiding spending any time with family that don't live in the same household, except if outside using social distancing.
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I haven't seen any of my family members in over a year now. My youngest sibling is nine years old. It sucks. But the pandemic situation is worse than it was at Christmas, not better. Now is not the time to reverse course.
I just got my first vaccine dose today. I would consider flying to see them after I get the second, but I will likely wait for my partner and dad to get it as well.
Aren't we still unsure if those with the vax can still spread it?
If true, wouldn't that mean we'll never have herd immunity?
Not sure, but if someone has been vaxxed they are highly unlikely to suffer more than mild symptoms which at this point is still very hopeful.
Sure is, I just shudder to think of the possibility that we'd have to tell people who can't be vaccinated that they need to hole up forever because the rest of us will always be passing COVID around and just not being affected by it ourselves because we have immunity.
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It was impossible not to see my family, and then we gave them Covid. We were lucky that we all survived, but we are all still recovering over a month later. If we could have avoided seeing them we would’ve, but we cohabitate.
Now is the best time to keep family members safe and avoid contact. Vaccines are being given out to elderly, so let’s get this done.
In retrospect, do you think it was really impossible not to see your family?
That sounds unnecessarily harsh - did you miss the bolded? I would consider it nigh-impossible to avoid seeing people who live in the same house.
I responded primarily to the dramatic structure of the first sentence. "Cohabitate" is commonly used to refer to partners, not family members. And of course, the bolded wasn't bolded originally. It was confusingly worded. My question was asked politely and my curiosity was genuine.
From all the help you have provided Dicey, didn’t take it in a negative way. It did make me pause and think if we could’ve, but given the situation, it was not possible.
Lol cohabitate was all I could come up with at the time; good with numbers, bad with words.
You know what I really want to hear your thoughts about is the other thread and how you would do our FIRE differently.
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It was impossible not to see my family, and then we gave them Covid. We were lucky that we all survived, but we are all still recovering over a month later. If we could have avoided seeing them we would’ve, but we cohabitate.
Now is the best time to keep family members safe and avoid contact. Vaccines are being given out to elderly, so let’s get this done.
In retrospect, do you think it was really impossible not to see your family?
Did you miss the part where they LIVE TOGETHER?
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I haven't seen any of my family members in over a year now. My youngest sibling is nine years old. It sucks. But the pandemic situation is worse than it was at Christmas, not better. Now is not the time to reverse course.
I just got my first vaccine dose today. I would consider flying to see them after I get the second, but I will likely wait for my partner and dad to get it as well.
Aren't we still unsure if those with the vax can still spread it?
If true, wouldn't that mean we'll never have herd immunity?
Not sure, but if someone has been vaxxed they are highly unlikely to suffer more than mild symptoms which at this point is still very hopeful.
There's still a 5% chance they can have mild symptoms. However, they could also be asymptomatic and shed the virus despite the vaccine having enabled their immune system to prevent a symptomatic illness. That percentage is unknown but could be much higher than 5%.
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Well my area and much of the US is setting daily records for the number of COVID19 cases/hospitalizations/deaths so no change for me. I've seen one relative in person for about 10 minutes masked and outside since March. Once I've been vaccinated I'll loosen up a bit.
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I only did outdoor get togethers with extended family, but now it is cold and I haven't seen them since last Spring. The only family member I make an exception for is my brother, as he is disabled and with many health issues, and has gone for weeks at a time without aides, because covid created massive staffing shortages at the home care agencies. I am his only close relative. Therefore, it is necessity and not the desire for personal contact driving my in-person visits.
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It was impossible not to see my family, and then we gave them Covid. We were lucky that we all survived, but we are all still recovering over a month later. If we could have avoided seeing them we would’ve, but we cohabitate.
Now is the best time to keep family members safe and avoid contact. Vaccines are being given out to elderly, so let’s get this done.
In retrospect, do you think it was really impossible not to see your family?
Did you miss the part where they LIVE TOGETHER?
Apparently you missed my response on the previous page. There's no need to shout.
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My family lives abroad and I d9n't visit them. Mother and FIL are both 70+/75+ Years old. FIL har just got a cancer operation. They are both selfisolating and not even meeting famil6 who lives close. If we would visit them, we would have to be in quaranteen for 10 days on return, which we don't fancy. The country where they live has higher risk than our country, so visiting them is also not attractive for us. We might visit later when we are all vaccinated and travelling abroad is not so discouraged as it is now.
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We've been avoiding interacting with family and friends (except for a handful of socially distanced outdoor encounters...I think 5? in total) since last April. Our city has by far its highest transmission/infection/death rates this past month (and we've been a shit show since last summer), so we are getting MORE careful, not less.
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I know there was a lot of ppl who avoided holiday gatherings with family, even family that was relatively local to them. I am just curious if you are still holding out on seeing them? Or has the new year eased your views on spending time with them?
I haven't seen my family (only about an hour away from me) since September. I feel badly but just not sure what to do, as I do go out for groceries, Dr appts etc. My 75 year old mom is over there too and I would rather wait until she is vaccinated at least.
Just wondering how others are handling this currently...
Here is the sum total of people we've seen since March 2020:
1. One Mother's day get together in May, outdoors and masked with distancing.
2. One birthday get together in June, outdoors, mostly masked and distancing, no more than 4 non household members at a time
3. One birthday get together in August, we stayed 20 minutes, because we were mostly the only masked people (outdoors).
4. The occasional "hey how's it going" while passing neighbors in their front yards or streets.
5. One teenager "hang out" where the kid kept coming in the house and didn't want to wear a mask (that was...October?"
6. In the summer, two runs with a friend, distanced.
7. Oct/Nov, one dinner with a friend. This was indoors, I wasn't terribly comfortable with the idea, but he was very good at isolating and Oct was our lowest COVID numbers.
That's it. Haven't seen anyone else. Our kids are in distance learning. Our families are far away. DS 8yo hasn't seen a friend in person since March. We don't gather at all. I started using Instacart. We haven't left our county since March.
Our local numbers are the highest they've ever been. So obviously everyone else isn't like me.
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Yeah, I haven't seen my parents or the in-laws since July 2019. We usually visit once a year in the Spring or Fall, so COVID cancelled our 2020 trip. We'd have to fly to see them, and quarantining after that would take up too much vacation time. So I guess we will continue to wait. We have only seen 4 of our friends in person, masked and outside twice, but it's mainly because all our good friends moved or had babies right before COVID hit and it's impossible to meet people in these times. I also WFH and we don't use cameras on our meetings. It has been an incredibly lonely and isolating year.
I'm not so much afraid of catching COVID myself, I'm more concerned about passing it on to my parents. And I'm pretty sure I had it over Christmas last year before it was "official." I could be convinced to go on a vacation via plane, but I still have the memory fresh in my mind of being horribly sick for a week, in a foreign country, and having to fly home. That's soured my view on going out in public if it's not really necessary.
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Still avoiding. My mom informed me that she won't get vaccinated because she's afraid of "allergic reactions", so it will probably be Thanksgiving before SO and I can get vaccinated and safely visit them.
Numbers of infections and deaths are higher now than ever. No reason to change our behavior of avoiding all human contact we can.
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I've already been vaccinated but I am not changing my daily habits and avoidance AT ALL.
The other day was the mostly deadly day for Covid in the USA. I think we've had 5 or 6 such records already in 2021. The stakes keep getting raised. People's cautious behavior (masks and social distancing) should not change yet.
I'm not sure I understand the point of this post.
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I avoid almost everyone, including almost all of my family, with the strong caveat that if almost anyone called me and told me that they needed my presence to prevent serious self harm that I would happily be there. I live with my mom and brother part of the time due to complicated family situation, so I have seen them off and on.
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My parents and spouse are scheduled to receive the first vaccine dose in the next 10 days. The kids and I will not be vaccinated for a while, but they've been going to school and dance class since summer. We'll probably see my parents more once they are vaccinated.
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It was impossible not to see my family, and then we gave them Covid. We were lucky that we all survived, but we are all still recovering over a month later. If we could have avoided seeing them we would’ve, but we cohabitate.
Now is the best time to keep family members safe and avoid contact. Vaccines are being given out to elderly, so let’s get this done.
In retrospect, do you think it was really impossible not to see your family?
Did you miss the part where they LIVE TOGETHER?
Apparently you missed my response on the previous page. There's no need to shout.
Only thing that came to mind.
https://youtu.be/aKOmGhBOJZI?t=96
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It was impossible not to see my family, and then we gave them Covid. We were lucky that we all survived, but we are all still recovering over a month later. If we could have avoided seeing them we would’ve, but we cohabitate.
Now is the best time to keep family members safe and avoid contact. Vaccines are being given out to elderly, so let’s get this done.
In retrospect, do you think it was really impossible not to see your family?
Did you miss the part where they LIVE TOGETHER?
Apparently you missed my response on the previous page. There's no need to shout.
Only thing that came to mind.
https://youtu.be/aKOmGhBOJZI?t=96
That generated a genuine laugh. Thanks for that.
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Uh, yes. The pandemic is raging at its worst...so far. I also live in SoCal, where hospitals are completely overwhelmed and people are dying in droves. Not about to throw up my hands and give up in the face of that.
That said, it's not that difficult for us to avoid most family, as we live across the country from the majority of them. We do have some family about a 40-minute drive away, and we've avoided them. We do have one set of grandparents who often visits during extended cross-country road trips, and those visits haven't happened. They will be in the area next month, but we'll likely avoid seeing them; they want us to come stay with them in their hotel suite, but I just can't see that happening. It doesn't help that the stepfather is a diehard Trumpian who has denied the seriousness of the pandemic from the getgo, and loves to wax poetic about any restaurants or gatherings he is able to attend, maskless, without government interference.
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We have been visiting local friends and family all along but always outside, distanced with masks.
Camping trips, bike rides, walks, picnics (BYOE Bring you own everything), kayak / paddle boarding and even a b day party outside with individual Bundt cakes.
While there are no guarantees we are exceeding the recommendations from the experts and being as safe as possible while still tending to our and our friends / families mental health.
Now that it is winter we will likely not see them until we are all vaccinated or the weather warms up other than the distanced gift drop off we did at Christmas outdoors for about 1/2 hour.
The date makes no difference to me, we look at the stats and facts and situation and make our decision.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I've been seeing my parents, siblings, in laws, throughout the past few months. I also have been attending an MMA gym since it returned in June.
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I haven't seen any of my family members in over a year now. My youngest sibling is nine years old. It sucks. But the pandemic situation is worse than it was at Christmas, not better. Now is not the time to reverse course.
I just got my first vaccine dose today. I would consider flying to see them after I get the second, but I will likely wait for my partner and dad to get it as well.
Aren't we still unsure if those with the vax can still spread it?
If true, wouldn't that mean we'll never have herd immunity?
Not sure, but if someone has been vaxxed they are highly unlikely to suffer more than mild symptoms which at this point is still very hopeful.
Sure is, I just shudder to think of the possibility that we'd have to tell people who can't be vaccinated that they need to hole up forever because the rest of us will always be passing COVID around and just not being affected by it ourselves because we have immunity.
It's the same for flu.
Us immunocompromised people are used to dealing with a certain level of risk if we are ever going to set foot outside of the house. I am careful, like I've always been, and once everyone has had their shots I will go back to my usual level of careful.
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I guess I am in the minority here. I've been indoors with my family (parents, parents-in-law, siblings and brother in law) multiple times since COVID. The only time we were super diligent about not seeing family was like March and April when it was really scary and a lot of unknowns. We are getting together less, but still gathering on occasion. I would be really bummed if I got COVID, but from what I've seen, even the most diligent non-meeting-upper mask wearers still manage to catch it...
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We went through a brief period of seeing my parents during early fall (when cases were relatively low here, <10 cases / 100k people / day), but we've been far more restrictive since cases started climbing around Thanksgiving. I think we've only seen them once since then, when the weather made it easy to be outside/distanced. We mostly stayed outside... and although we were indoors briefly (to eat), they had their entire rear wall of sliding glass doors open and we ate at two separate tables (one for my parents, one for my household) that were ~10-15 apart. Until they're vaccinated, we'll only get together when the weather is amenable to doing it mostly outside like that. (They're kinda weenies about the cold, so that means not very often!)
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I haven't seen any of my family members in over a year now. My youngest sibling is nine years old. It sucks. But the pandemic situation is worse than it was at Christmas, not better. Now is not the time to reverse course.
I just got my first vaccine dose today. I would consider flying to see them after I get the second, but I will likely wait for my partner and dad to get it as well.
Aren't we still unsure if those with the vax can still spread it?
That is correct, and the biggest reason I used the word "consider." I hope we will know more in the coming months.
If true, wouldn't that mean we'll never have herd immunity?
It is very likely that being vaccinated *reduces* your odds of spreading it, but it may not be reduced to zero. If so, the threshold for herd immunity would be higher, but it would still be possible.
Grocery store mask compliance here is essentially 100%, maybe only 80 or 90% if you don't count people who don't know it goes over your nose. Outdoor mask compliance is above 50% I'd say.
The only time we were super diligent about not seeing family was like March and April when it was really scary and a lot of unknowns.
I agree that things felt way scarier in March and April. Objectively, though, things are much much more dangerous now than they were then.
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My parents just got the shot, I found these articles helpful to decide when it’s safe to visit and travel. Looks like everyone being vaccinated prior to gathering is the safest option, and transmission is possible even after vaccination or prior exposure:(
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22219362/end-of-covid-19-pandemic-social-distancing-masking
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-immunity/covid-19-infection-gives-some-immunity-for-at-least-five-months-uk-study-finds-idUSKBN29J01P
Thought this was really important, so wrote my 1st post (MMM stalker since 2012 ;0)
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My parents just got the shot, I found these articles helpful to decide when it’s safe to visit and travel. Looks like everyone being vaccinated prior to gathering is the safest option, and transmission is possible even after vaccination or prior exposure:(
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22219362/end-of-covid-19-pandemic-social-distancing-masking
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-immunity/covid-19-infection-gives-some-immunity-for-at-least-five-months-uk-study-finds-idUSKBN29J01P
Thought this was really important, so wrote my 1st post (MMM stalker since 2012 ;0)
Welcome, @MoneyQueen. Congratulations on jumping through the hoops! Feel free to contribute as you wish. We love hearing new voices, and success stories even more. Can't promise if you hang around you'll be more successful, but odds are good...
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I live in a different country to my family, and since the start of the pandemic, I've gone to visit them twice. Both times, I went for a month or longer, so had plenty of time to isolate from them and then still spend some time together. Thankfully my mother has a big house, so it was easy to stay apart.
My mother regularly invites over my grandmother, which seems risky as they both have a lot of contact with other people, but when she didn't do so during the first lockdown, bigger problems surfaced: grandmother was chronically depressed/ crying every day, started believing conspiracy theories, and just generally not in good shape. So, my mother decided that the risk is worth it, as the grandmother would likely deteriorate to the point where she couldn't recover anymore after a year or two of isolation.
I'd rather they all stayed at home and safe, but there are so many factors to consider, and although it scares me, I think my mother might be right.
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I've seen my brother, my closest family member, twice since March. Once was for lunch in September when infection numbers in our area were suppressed, once on Christmas Day. I was originally invited for Christmas lunch but declined because his stepson, who is a teacher in London, would be visiting. As it turned out matters got so bad in London that stepson decided to stay put (he was effectively put under lockdown a day after deciding not to travel) and my invitation was reissued and accepted.
The whole UK is back under lockdown now and the new variant is spreading fast with no sign of things getting better. We are both on course for vaccination in April/May so may see each other again once vaccination has been completed and had time to take effect, which would be June/July. So that's another six months to go.
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When daycare is closed, my in-laws often watch our kid (particularly if I have a heavy workload and can't watch him while working). Also, since they are okay with the risk, we are as well. We also spent Christmas with my wife's sister.
As for extended family, I'm glad to have any excuse to avoid seeing people.
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We’re still avoiding people. Nothing has changed yet, so our behaviors haven’t, either.
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I mentioned on FB last night that today we would surely exceed 24,000,000 confirmed Covid cases here in the US and also exceed 400,000 deaths.
This is what a person working in a small community hospital responded:
Our small community hospital morgue is packed.
Stacked.
The funeral home staff will be playing Corpse Jenga to find their person.
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My dad has taken the first vaccine shot and will have the second on February 4. I'll probably wait to see him again until after that. Even though he lives 5 hours away, we have visited 3 times since it started. Drive up early morning, visit, drive back that same day.
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I visit my siblings sometimes. But my parents are in their 60s so I'm avoiding them.
When I first read the title, I interpreted it as, "Will you still avoid family after COVID." :)
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I visit my siblings sometimes. But my parents are in their 60s so I'm avoiding them.
When I first read the title, I interpreted it as, "Will you still avoid family after COVID." :)
With a vaccine that apparently does not prevent the spread, only reduces symptoms, is there ever going to be an "after COVID?"
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I visit my siblings sometimes. But my parents are in their 60s so I'm avoiding them.
When I first read the title, I interpreted it as, "Will you still avoid family after COVID." :)
With a vaccine that apparently does not prevent the spread, only reduces symptoms, is there ever going to be an "after COVID?"
... What?
The vaccine prevents the vaccinated person from getting Covid. Therefore, that person, who will not have Covid, will not spread the virus.
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There is no guarantee that a vaccine that stops you from getting sick (which Pfizer/Moderna does) will also stop you from spreading the virus.
However, the situation is not that it "apparently does not prevent spread." We simply don't have data either way yet. It takes time to run these studies, especially when you need a large sample size of people to actually be exposed or infected.
EDIT:
Here is a general source to back up what I'm saying: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/01/12/956051995/why-you-should-still-wear-a-mask-and-avoid-crowds-after-getting-the-covid-19-vac (https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/01/12/956051995/why-you-should-still-wear-a-mask-and-avoid-crowds-after-getting-the-covid-19-vac)
And here is a source that goes slightly more into immunology: https://qz.com/1954762/can-you-spread-covid-19-if-you-get-the-vaccine/ (https://qz.com/1954762/can-you-spread-covid-19-if-you-get-the-vaccine/)
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I mentioned on FB last night that today we would surely exceed 24,000,000 confirmed Covid cases here in the US and also exceed 400,000 deaths.
This is what a person working in a small community hospital responded:
Our small community hospital morgue is packed.
Stacked.
The funeral home staff will be playing Corpse Jenga to find their person.
Hospitals have storage units in the parking lot in my country now. During the first wave, when my relative passed, her body was transported to a morgue a few hours a day and driven back to our hometown for the funeral. There were so many deaths in those days that the morgue was filled to capacity with just the bodies that were going to have a funeral service that day.
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My in-laws are the only family close to use, the next closest being 1,470 miles away. So visits were already limited.
Visits with the in-laws are limited to outside. We see them a couple times a month; every two weeks we do our grocery shopping/pick-up and deliver some to them (it keeps them out of the store for a little longer). If the weather is ok we will share a meal outside with a patio heater. If not a few pleasantries on the porch and off we go.
Once the vaccine is widely available we definitely need to visit the remote family. It had been a while before the pandemic, but since there have been health scares, general old age, new homes, and new family members.
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Definitely still avoiding contact with people, including family.
I haven't seen any out of state family at all. My parents live within 30 minutes of us so we did "drive-thru" holidays where we exchanged baked goods and gifts outdoors, but didn't hang around to open gifts due to the cold weather. We haven't seen them since then and probably won't anytime soon, other than the occasional spontaneous house call / sanity check where I might stop by to drop off some takeout or a small gift. My father has heart disease so he's been taking things incredibly seriously and wants his jab as soon as his turn comes up.
My in-laws babysit a toddler-aged grandchild along with the toddler's other set of grandparents, so that's their biggest risk factor. They've asked to see us from time to time but it's generally because of a house project or maintenance issue that they need another set of hands to assist with (they are a handy family - pre-covid we'd get the family together quite often to knock out house projects, usually having a big BBQ or party). When that happens, we all take a 14 day pause prior to the visit, and then my DH might go over for a few days even staying the night just to crank through any and all help they might need in one shot. We've done that maybe 3 times during the past year. We're about to do it again this weekend. So I would say we've been less careful on my in-laws side but we still take major precautions when it comes to quarantining before and after.
Other than that I've been trying to be mindful about calling friends and extended family to check in. I've had a few "drunk text/calls" from friends/family members after the holidays and it worries me a bit that people are definitely feeling that fatigue and loneliness.
We also set up a Minecraft realm and some of the siblings/cousins pop on there from time to time. We get on voice chat and play some games and it almost feels like we're hanging out, so that's been a nice way to try to navigate the winter months.
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We see our kids somewhat regularly. They are less than conservative when it comes to their social life. We do have friends who are high risk. We haven't seen them in over 11 months. Prior to visiting mom, we isolate from kids/grandkids for at least 2 weeks prior to visiting. We very rarely eat out as well.
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I mentioned on FB last night that today we would surely exceed 24,000,000 confirmed Covid cases here in the US and also exceed 400,000 deaths.
This is what a person working in a small community hospital responded:
Our small community hospital morgue is packed.
Stacked.
The funeral home staff will be playing Corpse Jenga to find their person.
Hospitals have storage units in the parking lot in my country now. During the first wave, when my relative passed, her body was transported to a morgue a few hours a day and driven back to our hometown for the funeral. There were so many deaths in those days that the morgue was filled to capacity with just the bodies that were going to have a funeral service that day.
In the SoCal area we are now using refrigerated trucks for body storage as funerals are taking weeks rather than days now and morgues have long been filled up. It is pretty heartbreaking to see on TV. I'm a fan of cremation myself so probably quicker to do that than a burial. I wonder if we will eventually have mass graves like other countries (Brazil) or multiple bodies placed in one grave site due to lack of burial sites. Not a lot of land around here.
In my state of Calif we have around 3 million cases and 33,000 deaths.
I am a member of a non profit that was planning on holding an awards ceremony "It will be just like ordering take out!" Luckily, a short request begging them to think of their families and communities did the trick. Unlike the speakeasies cropping up all up and down the state.
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I mentioned on FB last night that today we would surely exceed 24,000,000 confirmed Covid cases here in the US and also exceed 400,000 deaths.
This is what a person working in a small community hospital responded:
Our small community hospital morgue is packed.
Stacked.
The funeral home staff will be playing Corpse Jenga to find their person.
Hospitals have storage units in the parking lot in my country now. During the first wave, when my relative passed, her body was transported to a morgue a few hours a day and driven back to our hometown for the funeral. There were so many deaths in those days that the morgue was filled to capacity with just the bodies that were going to have a funeral service that day.
In the SoCal area we are now using refrigerated trucks for body storage as funerals are taking weeks rather than days now and morgues have long been filled up. It is pretty heartbreaking to see on TV. I'm a fan of cremation myself so probably quicker to do that than a burial. I wonder if we will eventually have mass graves like other countries (Brazil) or multiple bodies placed in one grave site due to lack of burial sites. Not a lot of land around here.
In my state of Calif we have around 3 million cases and 33,000 deaths.
Crematoriums can only handle a maximum amount of bodies and it's very difficult to scale that up - maximum capacity is something like 150% of normal amount of deaths (worked in one a long time ago). This spring my hometown had a death rate of about 7x normal for about a month. This summer we lost another person and that person wanted to be cremated. Normally the family can choose to walk with the coffin to the oven and say goodbye there. That wasn't possible now. They tried to say it in the most emphatic way possible but there was a backlog of bodies and our family member wasn't going to be cremated right after the service. Maybe not even the same day. It's easier to scale up burials, all you need is a couple of extra diggers. I'm sure we'd find enough space for burial sites if necessary. And I'm in the Netherlands, we're very densely populated.
I hope we won't reach the point where we can't have proper funerals. We didn't get to say goodbye to our loved ones while they were alive due to Covid, we had extremely limited funeral services but at least we got to see their bodies and have some form of ritual. That was hard enough. Not even having a dignified funeral at all would be terrible.
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Yes, I remember some of the crematoriums in the NYC area this spring broke down from overuse.
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I guess I am in the minority here. I've been indoors with my family (parents, parents-in-law, siblings and brother in law) multiple times since COVID. The only time we were super diligent about not seeing family was like March and April when it was really scary and a lot of unknowns. We are getting together less, but still gathering on occasion. I would be really bummed if I got COVID, but from what I've seen, even the most diligent non-meeting-upper mask wearers still manage to catch it...
x2
Covid needs to be weighed against isolation that can be more destructive/deadly.
My neighbor was falling apart mentally during the first wave since she went into complete lockdown. Work from home, groceries delivered, never seeing family/friends, etc. We were speaking at a distance in the backyard, she was telling me that she was falling asleep on the dog sleeping pad with her dog. Recently she started to be more social yet still very cautious and the difference can be seen, her outlook changed and she looks like a different person.
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We're lucky; my partner & I both work from home now & so do most of our friends. So, we've felt pretty comfortable having outdoor gatherings of 4-6 people most weekends since it started. There are a few friends who don't behave as carefully as we do that we have stuck to seeing on Zoom etc.
My mom is retired & lives an 8 hour drive away. We've seen her twice this year, quarantining for 2 weeks before hand both times. A stop or two to use the bathroom each time was our only exposure to others & my mom and I agreed it was a minimal risk worth taking since she's otherwise pretty isolated. While I was home for Christmas we had a freak 55 degree day & decided to have an outdoor Christmas, masked, with my sister and her kids. I was a little nervous as the kids & my mom didn't do great at keeping distance but everyone seems fine afterwards so we were lucky maybe.
Partner's parents live in Hong Kong; that will be our first stop after we're vaccinated & the travel regulations are clear.
The UK variant has given me pause. We didn't see anyone this weekend & given the reports of just how much more contagious it is, we may go back to the virtual life for several months until we're eligible for vaccines. It seems that outdoors+distanced+masks may not be enough to avoid the new straing.
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I haven't seen any of my family members in over a year now. My youngest sibling is nine years old. It sucks. But the pandemic situation is worse than it was at Christmas, not better. Now is not the time to reverse course.
I just got my first vaccine dose today. I would consider flying to see them after I get the second, but I will likely wait for my partner and dad to get it as well.
Aren't we still unsure if those with the vax can still spread it?
If true, wouldn't that mean we'll never have herd immunity?
I heard speculation that you could still be carrying *some* virus even if your vaccinated body is protected from getting sick, but you're going to be less contagious (if at all).
I work from home and live alone. I've visited my out of state parents (driving) a couple times for a week each. I just do a 10+ day quarantine first, so it seems like less risk for all involved than going to the grocery store.
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I know there was a lot of ppl who avoided holiday gatherings with family, even family that was relatively local to them. I am just curious if you are still holding out on seeing them?
We are not seeing family or friends in person, and are keeping up our social-distancing protocols.
Cases are skyrocketing in my neck of the woods (as they are in many, many places). We won’t ease up until we are both vaccinated (which hopefully will be in the next couple of weeks), and even then we’ll be very deliberate about The Who, When and How we see people.
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I haven't seen any of my family in person other than my wife and kids since Christmas 2019. The only people that have been inside the house are contractors and they typically are in and out as fast as possible. I very occasionally set foot in a grocery or big box hardware store but that's been it since March.
To reiterate what someone else said up thread, I'm not avoiding my family, I'm keeping them safe.
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I haven't seen any of my family in person other than my wife and kids since Christmas 2019. The only people that have been inside the house are contractors and they typically are in and out as fast as possible. I very occasionally set foot in a grocery or big box hardware store but that's been it since March.
To reiterate what someone else said up thread, I'm not avoiding my family, I'm keeping them safe.
I really think that the rephrasing is important here. I like to believe we would be facing fewer mental health issues from all of this is we phrased it in terms of public health and protecting our community, rather than avoidance and isolation. It was reason I like the "safer at home" phrasing, as long as we acknowledge that not everyone is safer at home...
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I haven't seen any of my family in person other than my wife and kids since Christmas 2019. The only people that have been inside the house are contractors and they typically are in and out as fast as possible. I very occasionally set foot in a grocery or big box hardware store but that's been it since March.
To reiterate what someone else said up thread, I'm not avoiding my family, I'm keeping them safe.
I really think that the rephrasing is important here. I like to believe we would be facing fewer mental health issues from all of this is we phrased it in terms of public health and protecting our community, rather than avoidance and isolation. It was reason I like the "safer at home" phrasing, as long as we acknowledge that not everyone is safer at home...
Agreed. Reframing it from "avoiding family" to "protecting family" is much more productive.
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I saw my mum once in 2020 and will only see her again once we have both been vaccinated. As someone rightly mentioned above, I am doing this to protect my family, not avoid them.
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I know there was a lot of ppl who avoided holiday gatherings with family, even family that was relatively local to them. I am just curious if you are still holding out on seeing them?
We are not seeing family or friends in person, and are keeping up our social-distancing protocols.
Cases are skyrocketing in my neck of the woods (as they are in many, many places). We won’t ease up until we are both vaccinated (which hopefully will be in the next couple of weeks), and even then we’ll be very deliberate about The Who, When and How we see people.
Vaccination is not a guarantee of safety from getting or transmitting the virus.
Until the second dose of the vaccine it's unknown how much protection a person has from covid. Even after the second dose, one in twenty people who are fully vaccinated can still get coronavirus (the numbers aren't settled, but expected to be worse for the new mutations of coronavirus - estimates of around one in five have been put forth).
Although given human nature this will be very hard to fight, until the majority of the population has been vaccinated easing up on social distancing/mask wearing/hand washing/etc. is a mistake.
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Vaccination is not a guarantee of safety from getting or transmitting the virus.
Haven't read anything about it but as lots of places are turing up restrictions a few notches while vaccination starts I wonder if they will even get data on that anytime soon. As far as I understand they way they figure this out is to observe spread after a siginificant portion of the population is vaccinated, but now my initial thought is that it will be hard to tell one effect from the other.
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I know there was a lot of ppl who avoided holiday gatherings with family, even family that was relatively local to them. I am just curious if you are still holding out on seeing them?
We are not seeing family or friends in person, and are keeping up our social-distancing protocols.
Cases are skyrocketing in my neck of the woods (as they are in many, many places). We won’t ease up until we are both vaccinated (which hopefully will be in the next couple of weeks), and even then we’ll be very deliberate about The Who, When and How we see people.
Vaccination is not a guarantee of safety from getting or transmitting the virus.
Until the second dose of the vaccine it's unknown how much protection a person has from covid. Even after the second dose, one in twenty people who are fully vaccinated can still get coronavirus (the numbers aren't settled, but expected to be worse for the new mutations of coronavirus - estimates of around one in five have been put forth).
Although given human nature this will be very hard to fight, until the majority of the population has been vaccinated easing up on social distancing/mask wearing/hand washing/etc. is a mistake.
Exactly. Hence the need to be very deliberate about who, how and where you see people even after vaccination. We certainly won't be attending large mask-less gatherings right away even after getting our shots.
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I know there was a lot of ppl who avoided holiday gatherings with family, even family that was relatively local to them. I am just curious if you are still holding out on seeing them?
We are not seeing family or friends in person, and are keeping up our social-distancing protocols.
Cases are skyrocketing in my neck of the woods (as they are in many, many places). We won’t ease up until we are both vaccinated (which hopefully will be in the next couple of weeks), and even then we’ll be very deliberate about The Who, When and How we see people.
Vaccination is not a guarantee of safety from getting or transmitting the virus.
Until the second dose of the vaccine it's unknown how much protection a person has from covid. Even after the second dose, one in twenty people who are fully vaccinated can still get coronavirus (the numbers aren't settled, but expected to be worse for the new mutations of coronavirus - estimates of around one in five have been put forth).
Although given human nature this will be very hard to fight, until the majority of the population has been vaccinated easing up on social distancing/mask wearing/hand washing/etc. is a mistake.
Exactly. Hence the need to be very deliberate about who, how and where you see people even after vaccination. We certainly won't be attending large mask-less gatherings right away even after getting our shots.
Yeah, not trying to single you out. I've heard a disconcerting number of people who are making noises along the lines of 'Once I get the first vaccine shot, it'll be back to normal! I'm going to be so glad to never wear a mask again." It makes me concerned.
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We see family and friends who share our level of risk tolerance. We run only necessary errands, but always with a mask. For those in our bubble who still must work in some setting other than home, they do so in a place where everyone wears masks as stays 6 feet apart. Our social bubble includes all family and friends who do the same.
As for the mask v. no-mask post vaccine debate, I'm on the fence. From a risk tolerance perspective, I'm generally ok with a 5% risk given my lack of risk factors for severe Covid. Understanding that I could get it and be asymptomatic and put others at risk, I'd advocate for wearing a mask where that is necessary for the protection of others. But I'd also be ok with attending maskless events if it was understood in advance that such an event was going to be a maskless and attending was at each's own risk.
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Just got back from my second visit with family this month.
However we already had it, and my parents are very ok with the risk. They would much rather see grandkids and get covid, then not see them for a year. They are only young once.
To each their own and all.
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Yeah, not trying to single you out. I've heard a disconcerting number of people who are making noises along the lines of 'Once I get the first vaccine shot, it'll be back to normal! I'm going to be so glad to never wear a mask again." It makes me concerned.
I'm really concerned as well. And these aren't just strangers I'm talking about. Roughly half my family is 1A or 1B (myself included) and a bunch of them are talking about big gatherings "to celebrate" in the comming weeks. Nope. The other half of our family won't be vaccinated, we still don't know if vaccinated people can spread the virus, and there are enough pathways (e.g. our non-vaccinated family, plus the ~1 in 20 for whom the vaccine won't protect) that such gatherings of mostly-vaccinated people could ironically become spreader events of their own.
Thank god my workplace - made up of all 1B, soon-to-be-vaccinated individuals - is keeping COVID protocols in place for at least the next quarter.
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We see family and friends who share our level of risk tolerance. We run only necessary errands, but always with a mask. For those in our bubble who still must work in some setting other than home, they do so in a place where everyone wears masks as stays 6 feet apart. Our social bubble includes all family and friends who do the same.
As for the mask v. no-mask post vaccine debate, I'm on the fence. From a risk tolerance perspective, I'm generally ok with a 5% risk given my lack of risk factors for severe Covid. Understanding that I could get it and be asymptomatic and put others at risk, I'd advocate for wearing a mask where that is necessary for the protection of others. But I'd also be ok with attending maskless events if it was understood in advance that such an event was going to be a maskless and attending was at each's own risk.
5% risk is for the moderna and phizer vaccines if you contract regular covid - not the new variants currently going around. As mentioned, estimates are that risk may be four times higher with these new variants.
There shouldn't be any 'maskless events' until the percentage of population vaccinated is high enough to provide the benefits of herd immunity.
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We see family and friends who share our level of risk tolerance. We run only necessary errands, but always with a mask. For those in our bubble who still must work in some setting other than home, they do so in a place where everyone wears masks as stays 6 feet apart. Our social bubble includes all family and friends who do the same.
As for the mask v. no-mask post vaccine debate, I'm on the fence. From a risk tolerance perspective, I'm generally ok with a 5% risk given my lack of risk factors for severe Covid. Understanding that I could get it and be asymptomatic and put others at risk, I'd advocate for wearing a mask where that is necessary for the protection of others. But I'd also be ok with attending maskless events if it was understood in advance that such an event was going to be a maskless and attending was at each's own risk.
5% risk is for the moderna and phizer vaccines if you contract regular covid - not the new variants currently going around. As mentioned, estimates are that risk may be four times higher with these new variants.
There shouldn't be any 'maskless events' until the percentage of population vaccinated is high enough to provide the benefits of herd immunity.
From the NYT, a source that has taken this serious from day one.
Right now, public discussion of the vaccines is full of warnings about their limitations: They’re not 100 percent effective. Even vaccinated people may be able to spread the virus. And people shouldn’t change their behavior once they get their shots.
These warnings have a basis in truth, just as it’s true that masks are imperfect. But the sum total of the warnings is misleading, as I heard from multiple doctors and epidemiologists last week.
“It’s driving me a little bit crazy,” Dr. Ashish Jha, dean of the Brown School of Public Health, told me.
“We’re underselling the vaccine,” Dr. Aaron Richterman, an infectious-disease specialist at the University of Pennsylvania, said.
“It’s going to save your life — that’s where the emphasis has to be right now,” Dr. Peter Hotez of the Baylor College of Medicine said.
The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are “essentially 100 percent effective against serious disease,” Dr. Paul Offit, the director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, said. “It’s ridiculously encouraging.”
"If anything, the 95 percent number understates the effectiveness, because it counts anyone who came down with a mild case of Covid-19 as a failure. But turning Covid into a typical flu — as the vaccines evidently did for most of the remaining 5 percent — is actually a success. Of the 32,000 people who received the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine in a research trial, do you want to guess how many contracted a severe Covid case? One."
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Yeah, not trying to single you out. I've heard a disconcerting number of people who are making noises along the lines of 'Once I get the first vaccine shot, it'll be back to normal! I'm going to be so glad to never wear a mask again." It makes me concerned.
I'm really concerned as well. And these aren't just strangers I'm talking about. Roughly half my family is 1A or 1B (myself included) and a bunch of them are talking about big gatherings "to celebrate" in the comming weeks. Nope. The other half of our family won't be vaccinated, we still don't know if vaccinated people can spread the virus, and there are enough pathways (e.g. our non-vaccinated family, plus the ~1 in 20 for whom the vaccine won't protect) that such gatherings of mostly-vaccinated people could ironically become spreader events of their own.
Thank god my workplace - made up of all 1B, soon-to-be-vaccinated individuals - is keeping COVID protocols in place for at least the next quarter.
Half of my family and many of my friends are either 1A or 1B and have received their first dose. It definitely won't be back to normal or maskless, but we do plan to see a small number of vaccinated folks on occasion following inoculation.
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Right now, public discussion of the vaccines is full of warnings about their limitations: They’re not 100 percent effective. Even vaccinated people may be able to spread the virus. And people shouldn’t change their behavior once they get their shots.
These warnings have a basis in truth, just as it’s true that masks are imperfect. But the sum total of the warnings is misleading, as I heard from multiple doctors and epidemiologists last week.
“We’re underselling the vaccine,” Dr. Aaron Richterman, an infectious-disease specialist at the University of Pennsylvania, said.
“It’s going to save your life — that’s where the emphasis has to be right now,” Dr. Peter Hotez of the Baylor College of Medicine said.
The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are “essentially 100 percent effective against serious disease,” Dr. Paul Offit, the director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, said. “It’s ridiculously encouraging.”
My primary concern is not getting Covid once I have gotten the vaccine. It's participating in behavior which will kill other people who are not yet vaccinated.
Absolutely the vaccine is a game-changer. That doesn't mean we can change the rules of the game.
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We see family and friends who share our level of risk tolerance. We run only necessary errands, but always with a mask. For those in our bubble who still must work in some setting other than home, they do so in a place where everyone wears masks as stays 6 feet apart. Our social bubble includes all family and friends who do the same.
As for the mask v. no-mask post vaccine debate, I'm on the fence. From a risk tolerance perspective, I'm generally ok with a 5% risk given my lack of risk factors for severe Covid. Understanding that I could get it and be asymptomatic and put others at risk, I'd advocate for wearing a mask where that is necessary for the protection of others. But I'd also be ok with attending maskless events if it was understood in advance that such an event was going to be a maskless and attending was at each's own risk.
5% risk is for the moderna and phizer vaccines if you contract regular covid - not the new variants currently going around. As mentioned, estimates are that risk may be four times higher with these new variants.
There shouldn't be any 'maskless events' until the percentage of population vaccinated is high enough to provide the benefits of herd immunity.
From the NYT, a source that has taken this serious from day one.
Right now, public discussion of the vaccines is full of warnings about their limitations: They’re not 100 percent effective. Even vaccinated people may be able to spread the virus. And people shouldn’t change their behavior once they get their shots.
These warnings have a basis in truth, just as it’s true that masks are imperfect. But the sum total of the warnings is misleading, as I heard from multiple doctors and epidemiologists last week.
“It’s driving me a little bit crazy,” Dr. Ashish Jha, dean of the Brown School of Public Health, told me.
“We’re underselling the vaccine,” Dr. Aaron Richterman, an infectious-disease specialist at the University of Pennsylvania, said.
“It’s going to save your life — that’s where the emphasis has to be right now,” Dr. Peter Hotez of the Baylor College of Medicine said.
The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are “essentially 100 percent effective against serious disease,” Dr. Paul Offit, the director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, said. “It’s ridiculously encouraging.”
"If anything, the 95 percent number understates the effectiveness, because it counts anyone who came down with a mild case of Covid-19 as a failure. But turning Covid into a typical flu — as the vaccines evidently did for most of the remaining 5 percent — is actually a success. Of the 32,000 people who received the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine in a research trial, do you want to guess how many contracted a severe Covid case? One."
I don't think anything you posted above contradicts anything I posted.
The vaccines are a great tool to have. But we should expect the vaccines to continue to become less effective over time as the virus continues to mutate - it's very important to vaccinate people as soon as possible.
Great as the vaccine is, until we have 70-80% of the population fully vaccinated it is not back to business as usual. If we try to rush things it will just result in more needless deaths.
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We see family and friends who share our level of risk tolerance. We run only necessary errands, but always with a mask. For those in our bubble who still must work in some setting other than home, they do so in a place where everyone wears masks as stays 6 feet apart. Our social bubble includes all family and friends who do the same.
As for the mask v. no-mask post vaccine debate, I'm on the fence. From a risk tolerance perspective, I'm generally ok with a 5% risk given my lack of risk factors for severe Covid. Understanding that I could get it and be asymptomatic and put others at risk, I'd advocate for wearing a mask where that is necessary for the protection of others. But I'd also be ok with attending maskless events if it was understood in advance that such an event was going to be a maskless and attending was at each's own risk.
5% risk is for the moderna and phizer vaccines if you contract regular covid - not the new variants currently going around. As mentioned, estimates are that risk may be four times higher with these new variants.
There shouldn't be any 'maskless events' until the percentage of population vaccinated is high enough to provide the benefits of herd immunity.
From the NYT, a source that has taken this serious from day one.
Right now, public discussion of the vaccines is full of warnings about their limitations: They’re not 100 percent effective. Even vaccinated people may be able to spread the virus. And people shouldn’t change their behavior once they get their shots.
These warnings have a basis in truth, just as it’s true that masks are imperfect. But the sum total of the warnings is misleading, as I heard from multiple doctors and epidemiologists last week.
“It’s driving me a little bit crazy,” Dr. Ashish Jha, dean of the Brown School of Public Health, told me.
“We’re underselling the vaccine,” Dr. Aaron Richterman, an infectious-disease specialist at the University of Pennsylvania, said.
“It’s going to save your life — that’s where the emphasis has to be right now,” Dr. Peter Hotez of the Baylor College of Medicine said.
The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are “essentially 100 percent effective against serious disease,” Dr. Paul Offit, the director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, said. “It’s ridiculously encouraging.”
"If anything, the 95 percent number understates the effectiveness, because it counts anyone who came down with a mild case of Covid-19 as a failure. But turning Covid into a typical flu — as the vaccines evidently did for most of the remaining 5 percent — is actually a success. Of the 32,000 people who received the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine in a research trial, do you want to guess how many contracted a severe Covid case? One."
I don't think anything you posted above contradicts anything I posted.
The vaccines are a great tool to have. But we should expect the vaccines to continue to become less effective over time as the virus continues to mutate - it's very important to vaccinate people as soon as possible.
Great as the vaccine is, until we have 70-80% of the population fully vaccinated it is not back to business as usual. If we try to rush things it will just result in more needless deaths.
Yeah not sure I was trying too?
I think my point is this vaccine is in fact f*cking amazing. 95% makes it one of the most effective of all time. I believe a flu shot is ~50% effective.
My thought is the vaccine is likely going to turn Covid into "Flu-C" in less than a year. I want people to feel the same way about coivd that they do about the flu.
Also completely random segway. Does anyone know if recovering from covid is more/less effective than the vaccine?
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The Lowes in my area still has a 50% mask compliance rate. I see people not wearing masks or not wearing them properly everywhere I have to go. It's maddening.
that's quite stunning but not sure why I"m shocked still.
does lowes not have a mask policy or just no enforced? We sure have become one selfish disgusting culture.
Same in our town. Lowe's has to be one of the most dangerous places to visit. We did so all summer as we were working on a house flip.
We are still avoiding family and friends. One teen is happy to be at home, other is seeing a friend. Alot. Best for both probably.
Coworker stopped by the chat this morning. Asked if am I getting the vaccine. Yeah. Whole family will once able. Well, coworker says - you know there have been a couple of deaths from the vaccine. I reminded coworker that there have been 2M+ deaths from COVID. How much statistical encouragement does a person need?
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We see family and friends who share our level of risk tolerance. We run only necessary errands, but always with a mask. For those in our bubble who still must work in some setting other than home, they do so in a place where everyone wears masks as stays 6 feet apart. Our social bubble includes all family and friends who do the same.
As for the mask v. no-mask post vaccine debate, I'm on the fence. From a risk tolerance perspective, I'm generally ok with a 5% risk given my lack of risk factors for severe Covid. Understanding that I could get it and be asymptomatic and put others at risk, I'd advocate for wearing a mask where that is necessary for the protection of others. But I'd also be ok with attending maskless events if it was understood in advance that such an event was going to be a maskless and attending was at each's own risk.
5% risk is for the moderna and phizer vaccines if you contract regular covid - not the new variants currently going around. As mentioned, estimates are that risk may be four times higher with these new variants.
There shouldn't be any 'maskless events' until the percentage of population vaccinated is high enough to provide the benefits of herd immunity.
From the NYT, a source that has taken this serious from day one.
Right now, public discussion of the vaccines is full of warnings about their limitations: They’re not 100 percent effective. Even vaccinated people may be able to spread the virus. And people shouldn’t change their behavior once they get their shots.
These warnings have a basis in truth, just as it’s true that masks are imperfect. But the sum total of the warnings is misleading, as I heard from multiple doctors and epidemiologists last week.
“It’s driving me a little bit crazy,” Dr. Ashish Jha, dean of the Brown School of Public Health, told me.
“We’re underselling the vaccine,” Dr. Aaron Richterman, an infectious-disease specialist at the University of Pennsylvania, said.
“It’s going to save your life — that’s where the emphasis has to be right now,” Dr. Peter Hotez of the Baylor College of Medicine said.
The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are “essentially 100 percent effective against serious disease,” Dr. Paul Offit, the director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, said. “It’s ridiculously encouraging.”
"If anything, the 95 percent number understates the effectiveness, because it counts anyone who came down with a mild case of Covid-19 as a failure. But turning Covid into a typical flu — as the vaccines evidently did for most of the remaining 5 percent — is actually a success. Of the 32,000 people who received the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine in a research trial, do you want to guess how many contracted a severe Covid case? One."
I don't think anything you posted above contradicts anything I posted.
The vaccines are a great tool to have. But we should expect the vaccines to continue to become less effective over time as the virus continues to mutate - it's very important to vaccinate people as soon as possible.
Great as the vaccine is, until we have 70-80% of the population fully vaccinated it is not back to business as usual. If we try to rush things it will just result in more needless deaths.
Yeah not sure I was trying too?
I think my point is this vaccine is in fact f*cking amazing. 95% makes it one of the most effective of all time. I believe a flu shot is ~50% effective.
My thought is the vaccine is likely going to turn Covid into "Flu-C" in less than a year. I want people to feel the same way about coivd that they do about the flu.
Also completely random segway. Does anyone know if recovering from covid is more/less effective than the vaccine?
So far, all evidence points to the vaccine being much less problematic than covid (although we are lacking testing and evidence for possible long term complications).
Long term effects of covid are not fully known. We have been seeing that 50%-80% of people still have symptoms after 3 months - https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-tragedy-of-the-post-covid-long-haulers-2020101521173 (https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-tragedy-of-the-post-covid-long-haulers-2020101521173)) long after the virus has run its course. How long or if these symptoms will stick around or if they become permanent is unknown, but people who developed long term problems from similar SARS virus often had issues impacting their health for more than two years (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7192220/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7192220/)).
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I'm definitely avoiding family. My dad had been basically looking everywhere for it, and finally found it right before Christmas. In a sense it was fortunate he started showing symptoms right before they were planning to take a trip out of state to visit my 80-year-old aunt. He didn't get that sick, but he passed it to my mom who was feeling pretty rough for a few weeks, fortunately nothing truly serious. Our Zoom Christmas kept me, my siblings, and my grandmother from getting sick.
The pandemic is as bad as it ever has been here, so I'm not planning to go back to anything close to normal until the numbers go way down.
To each their own and all.
It's one thing to make choices about one's own personal health, but our actions right now involve making choices about the health of the whole community around us. "To each their own" does not apply here any more than it does to obeying stop signs. I'm an essential worker, so what I do both at work and outside of work involves making decisions about the health of my coworkers as well as everyone they come in contact with, everyone those people come in contact with, etc. etc.
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I'm definitely avoiding family. My dad had been basically looking everywhere for it, and finally found it right before Christmas. In a sense it was fortunate he started showing symptoms right before they were planning to take a trip out of state to visit my 80-year-old aunt. He didn't get that sick, but he passed it to my mom who was feeling pretty rough for a few weeks, fortunately nothing truly serious. Our Zoom Christmas kept me, my siblings, and my grandmother from getting sick.
The pandemic is as bad as it ever has been here, so I'm not planning to go back to anything close to normal until the numbers go way down.
To each their own and all.
It's one thing to make choices about one's own personal health, but our actions right now involve making choices about the health of the whole community around us. "To each their own" does not apply here any more than it does to obeying stop signs. I'm an essential worker, so what I do both at work and outside of work involves making decisions about the health of my coworkers as well as everyone they come in contact with, everyone those people come in contact with, etc. etc.
I was saying to each their own in terms of what risk tolerance you are allowing/accepting. I will continue to be in charge of my health, and others will be in charge of theirs.
Good luck out there.
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I was saying to each their own in terms of what risk tolerance you are allowing/accepting. I will continue to be in charge of my health, and others will be in charge of theirs.
Good luck out there.
Agreed.
I wear a mask everywhere(its not that hard) but I also see the problems isolation is causing people. From heavy drinking to mental problems.
My mother is turning 72 in a week and the whole family will be getting together, yes, unmasked because there are more than a few smaller children. During the first wave everyone isolated but this caused major health issues to my mother, heart and blood pressure. Saving someone from covid isn't a fix when they pass due to health issues from isolation.
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I think my point is this vaccine is in fact f*cking amazing. 95% makes it one of the most effective of all time. I believe a flu shot is ~50% effective.
My thought is the vaccine is likely going to turn Covid into "Flu-C" in less than a year. I want people to feel the same way about coivd that they do about the flu.
Also completely random segway. Does anyone know if recovering from covid is more/less effective than the vaccine?
I hope you are right - i fear it won’t be the case. There are a few big unknowns with both the vaccine and the virus
1) what is the long-term efficacy of the vaccine. Will this be a one-and-done vaccine, or will we need shots annually. If it’s the latter one can expect outbreaks which might rival a bad flu season, because as a nation we are pretty piss-poor at getting our shots.
2) what are the long-term health consequences of having gotten the virus. As GuitarStv says - we still don’t know, and a worrisome percent of people have severe lingering symptoms months after ‘recovering’. I also wonder whether asymptomatic spreaders won’t come down with symptoms months or years later.
3) Will different variants of the virus prove less responsive to our vaccines? We’ve already got a couple of strains that are more contagious - a vaccine-resistant type could really screw things up.
4) can vaccinated people harbor and spread the disease? There’s some precedence for this with other ailments, and ironically an increase in vaccinations could spark outbreaks as vaccinated people start to gather and (potentially) pass the virus on to others.
5) social impacts of being vaccinated (or not). Very soon we might have rules and restrictions that differ for those who have been vaccinated and those who have not. For example, airlines and employers might require a ‘vaccine passport’. Great if you have it, but it could be a year or more for low-risk people to get their shots. There’s a steep economic and social cost if you are prohibited from doing things because you simply cannot get the vaccine yet.
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I flew to visit my parents and spent three weeks there during christmas with them, my brother and sister, her partner and baby. I worked from home 10 days prior to the trip that was masked all the way from my front door. All my family works outside of the home so I was probably the most low risk person. My parents are not in a risk group and they choose to see my sister that is a nurse and have until now met covid patients. Luckily, she has started working from home as she is pregnant.
My parents do all their errands with masks and gloves.
My mom and me visited my grandfather because he had asked if I would come and visit. He sees his other kids and grandkids. As I live on the other end of the country I am normally only visiting during summer and christmas. This summer I dropped in for ten minutes. I was not quite comfortable with the visit but I think that it is his choice and as his health is declining you never know when it is the last time. We planned the trip with no stops when we drove to see him
My mother asked if I would come home for eastern but I will skip that this year. Hopefully, we are all vaccinated at least in the beginning of the summer as I will visit in the end. Last summer I drove but it is a two day trip and to long in the winter. As my family is living on the other end of the country no further visits are planned.
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I'm confused that masks are the precaution people are excited about ditching. Masks have not negatively impacted my quality of life in any way; they are a mild nuisance, hardly the largest sacrifice I've made.
When recalibrating what risks I'll be willing to accept post-vaccination, "not wearing a mask anymore" never crossed my mind. I'm thinking, "expand my bubble to another vaccinated household."
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I'm confused that masks are the precaution people are excited about ditching. Masks have not negatively impacted my quality of life in any way; they are a mild nuisance, hardly the largest sacrifice I've made.
When recalibrating what risks I'll be willing to accept post-vaccination, "not wearing a mask anymore" never crossed my mind. I'm thinking, "expand my bubble to another vaccinated household."
What a wide variety of people we are.
Wearing masks (and yes, I do it) is actually the most bothersome precaution to me. It has definitely negatively impacted my mental health and my interaction with the wider world. It makes me feel very isolated and unseen.
Which is kinda funny because most of my work is in operating rooms where we wear them almost all the time anyway. In normal times, that was fine. In these times, it's verging on too much.
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I'm confused that masks are the precaution people are excited about ditching. Masks have not negatively impacted my quality of life in any way; they are a mild nuisance, hardly the largest sacrifice I've made.
When recalibrating what risks I'll be willing to accept post-vaccination, "not wearing a mask anymore" never crossed my mind. I'm thinking, "expand my bubble to another vaccinated household."
+1. Barely registers on the scales for me. I am actually planning on never giving wearing a mask at the grocery store in winter time when the sickies are wandering around coughing and snotting on everything.
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I'm confused that masks are the precaution people are excited about ditching. Masks have not negatively impacted my quality of life in any way; they are a mild nuisance, hardly the largest sacrifice I've made.
People have different situations and are also biologically different - I get it. Mentally it doesn't bother me, but physically I hate wearing a mask (but I also wear one 100% of the time and have no patience for anyone who doesn't, because people dying is a pretty big fucking deal). I live in a very crowded place (Manhattan) and have no private outdoor space, so I have to wear a mask 100% of the time outside my apartment. And I haven't been able to open my window the entire pandemic due to construction on my building. Meaning I breathe no fresh-feeling/fresh-smelling air, ever, unless the weather is so bad that even the dog walkers and desperate parents of small children are staying out of the parks, and I can find an empty field to sit in without a mask. I find that very difficult. I also have asthma, so breathing through a filter can be a challenge; and I seem to breathe out a lot more moisture than most people, to the point that after five minutes my face is wet to the point that water droplets are forming on my skin... and after 15 minutes of brisk walking, I'm inhaling water up my nose because there's so much of it collecting on my lips and cheeks. It's pretty awful (and bizarre!). At least now I know why I always got dehydrated so easily. Anyway, yes, I will be thrilled when we can safely stop wearing masks. And if I can wear one in spite of all that, so can every other whiny pissant who pretends masks are too hard. :-)
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Masks are definitely annoying, I don't mean to discount any of the frustrations that have been listed. I work in person most days and wear one while doing so, and I have never mastered getting it not to fog up my glasses. It's just that it pales in emotional significance next to the fact that I haven't seen my family in a year.
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Masks are definitely annoying, I don't mean to discount any of the frustrations that have been listed. I work in person most days and wear one while doing so, and I have never mastered getting it not to fog up my glasses. It's just that it pales in emotional significance next to the fact that I haven't seen my family in a year.
I forgot to even mention the glasses fogging! Arg! X-) (That emoji represents me wandering around Manhattan blindly bumping into bicycles and dogs)
Yeah, I've been in a careful bubble with my closest family members, so it hasn't been that bad family-wise. I've actually spent way more time with them than usual since we isolate and then I go live with them for a week to make isolating worth our while, instead of just getting together for dinner occasionally like we normally would. I do really miss seeing my friends, which I used to do multiple nights a week, but I've managed to see some of them outdoors here and there, and we keep in touch online. I would say most of my stress right now is from feeling unsafe around other people in my building, at the store, at the doctor's office, on the subway, etc. I am just desperate to be able to go out and not feel like someone could kill me with a sneeze.
-
Vaccination is not a guarantee of safety from getting or transmitting the virus.
Until the second dose of the vaccine it's unknown how much protection a person has from covid. Even after the second dose, one in twenty people who are fully vaccinated can still get coronavirus (the numbers aren't settled, but expected to be worse for the new mutations of coronavirus - estimates of around one in five have been put forth).
https://www.nejm.org/covid-vaccine/faq?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20210118&instance_id=26125&nl=the-morning®i_id=116912467&segment_id=49584&te=1&user_id=87315a3db703b6268907da45684fef69
****
There are several good reasons to be optimistic about the vaccines’ effect on disease transmission. First, in the Moderna trial. opens in new tab, participants underwent nasopharyngeal swab PCR testing at baseline and again at week 4, when they returned for their second dose. Among those who were negative at baseline and without symptoms, 39 (0.3%) in the placebo group and 15 (0.1%) in the mRNA-1273 group had nasopharyngeal swabs that were positive for SARS-CoV-2 by PCR at week 4. These data suggest that even after one dose, the vaccine has a protective effect in preventing asymptomatic infection.
Second, findings from population-based studies now suggest that people without symptoms are less likely to transmit the virus to others. Third, it would be highly unlikely in biological terms for a vaccine to prevent disease and not also prevent infection. If there is an example of a vaccine in widespread clinical use that has this selective effect — prevents disease but not infection — I can’t think of one!
Some of my colleagues have now reminded me that certain vaccines (diphtheria, meningitis B, and pertussis) allow asymptomatic colonization, and no doubt this will sometimes be true about the Covid-19 vaccines. Plus, the protective effect will never be 100%, which is why while case numbers are still high, we still recommend the use of social distancing and masking in public. These caveats notwithstanding, the likelihood that these vaccines will reduce the capacity to transmit the virus to others remains excellent. (Last reviewed/updated on 18 Jan 2021)...
*****
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Just got back from my second visit with family this month.
However we already had it, and my parents are very ok with the risk. They would much rather see grandkids and get covid, then not see them for a year. They are only young once.
To each their own and all.
Perhaps if one could control their personal ability to avoid contracting Covid or passing it on to others, this would be a true statement.
We haven't seen our granddaughter for nearly a year. We could never forgive ourselves if we jeopardized the health and safety of her family.
DH and I are pretty sure we contracted covid after a cross-country trip in late February, but that doesn't give us a right to treat this pandemic or our fellow human beings with anything less than full respect.
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Masks are definitely annoying, I don't mean to discount any of the frustrations that have been listed. I work in person most days and wear one while doing so, and I have never mastered getting it not to fog up my glasses. It's just that it pales in emotional significance next to the fact that I haven't seen my family in a year.
I actually found out that I don't really miss my family that much at all. But my family is complicated. We're not super close under normal circumstances. We lost our most important family member in March from Covid. I kind of appreciate being able to deal with my own massive grief without having to take everyone else's burden as well - that's what would have happened normally. I've still tried to support my family from a distance but I did not get anything back. When we still met up in person, those interactions were sometimes so overwhelming that afterwards I wasn't sure anymore what exactly had happened. It's more clear than ever now that my family is useless.
I do miss meeting up with some friends but we have been in touch through Skype and Whatsapp videocalls and that's been great.
I live in semi-permanent lockdown already because due to chronic illness I don't have much energy left after work. I don't have an extremely active social life. What I really miss is walking to a local coffeeshop for coffee and cake a few times a month. I didn't realize how much that meant to me.
I'll be happy to get rid of the masks too. I wear glasses so that's a struggle and I have a monthly treatment in a hospital a few hours by train away from home, which means I have to wear it 8 hours in a row including throughout my treatment. I feel short of breath and sometimes even close to fainting on those days but you can't get relief anywhere (that's from the mask + medical treatment combined, not just the mask). I even had to wear one while having an MRI and that was extremely uncomfortable. It's a small price to pay and I happily wear masks all the time but I'll be glad to get rid of them.
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I live 3,000 km away from my family and my old time friends. I saw my closest family in November 2019, I took the chance just before they started with the mandatory negative PCR tests and 10-days quarantine after arrival. It's been more than a year since I last visited not-so-close relatives or any friends. It's been tough for me, I was used to visit family and friends at least 3 or 4 times a year, including one long visit in summer and other in Christmas. Nothing like that happened this year, and it's hard to guess when it will happen again. It's the first time I feel that emigrating from my country has been a burden to keep in touch with my closest people.
On the upside, my GF and I decided to get married thanks to COVID. It's a bureaucratic nightmare to be someone's friend in a situation like this one, and we live like a married couple anyway. Weddings are not yet allowed, but we're hoping ours won't be cancelled and we can have it. Even better if my family and some common friends can attend, but that will depend on the evolution of the pandemic. International marriages require so much red tape that we prefer to get married before the closest family than to have to redo all the paperwork again.
Hopefully this year we will see the slowly return back to normal. I miss the people more than I thought I would, that has also been a discovery for me.
-
Vaccination is not a guarantee of safety from getting or transmitting the virus.
Until the second dose of the vaccine it's unknown how much protection a person has from covid. Even after the second dose, one in twenty people who are fully vaccinated can still get coronavirus (the numbers aren't settled, but expected to be worse for the new mutations of coronavirus - estimates of around one in five have been put forth).
https://www.nejm.org/covid-vaccine/faq?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20210118&instance_id=26125&nl=the-morning®i_id=116912467&segment_id=49584&te=1&user_id=87315a3db703b6268907da45684fef69
****
There are several good reasons to be optimistic about the vaccines’ effect on disease transmission. First, in the Moderna trial. opens in new tab, participants underwent nasopharyngeal swab PCR testing at baseline and again at week 4, when they returned for their second dose. Among those who were negative at baseline and without symptoms, 39 (0.3%) in the placebo group and 15 (0.1%) in the mRNA-1273 group had nasopharyngeal swabs that were positive for SARS-CoV-2 by PCR at week 4. These data suggest that even after one dose, the vaccine has a protective effect in preventing asymptomatic infection.
Second, findings from population-based studies now suggest that people without symptoms are less likely to transmit the virus to others. Third, it would be highly unlikely in biological terms for a vaccine to prevent disease and not also prevent infection. If there is an example of a vaccine in widespread clinical use that has this selective effect — prevents disease but not infection — I can’t think of one!
Some of my colleagues have now reminded me that certain vaccines (diphtheria, meningitis B, and pertussis) allow asymptomatic colonization, and no doubt this will sometimes be true about the Covid-19 vaccines. Plus, the protective effect will never be 100%, which is why while case numbers are still high, we still recommend the use of social distancing and masking in public. These caveats notwithstanding, the likelihood that these vaccines will reduce the capacity to transmit the virus to others remains excellent. (Last reviewed/updated on 18 Jan 2021)...
*****
Nothing written here contradicts anything in my post.
-
I'm confused that masks are the precaution people are excited about ditching. Masks have not negatively impacted my quality of life in any way; they are a mild nuisance, hardly the largest sacrifice I've made.
When recalibrating what risks I'll be willing to accept post-vaccination, "not wearing a mask anymore" never crossed my mind. I'm thinking, "expand my bubble to another vaccinated household."
What a wide variety of people we are.
Wearing masks (and yes, I do it) is actually the most bothersome precaution to me. It has definitely negatively impacted my mental health and my interaction with the wider world. It makes me feel very isolated and unseen.
Which is kinda funny because most of my work is in operating rooms where we wear them almost all the time anyway. In normal times, that was fine. In these times, it's verging on too much.
I'm not trying to be snarky. I literally cannot figure out what you mean here. Unless you are an actor or model etc., how does a mask make you feel isolated and unseen? I barely even notice I'm wearing one anymore...
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I'm confused that masks are the precaution people are excited about ditching. Masks have not negatively impacted my quality of life in any way; they are a mild nuisance, hardly the largest sacrifice I've made.
When recalibrating what risks I'll be willing to accept post-vaccination, "not wearing a mask anymore" never crossed my mind. I'm thinking, "expand my bubble to another vaccinated household."
What a wide variety of people we are.
Wearing masks (and yes, I do it) is actually the most bothersome precaution to me. It has definitely negatively impacted my mental health and my interaction with the wider world. It makes me feel very isolated and unseen.
Which is kinda funny because most of my work is in operating rooms where we wear them almost all the time anyway. In normal times, that was fine. In these times, it's verging on too much.
I'm not trying to be snarky. I literally cannot figure out what you mean here. Unless you are an actor or model etc., how does a mask make you feel isolated and unseen? I barely even notice I'm wearing one anymore...
Masks make me feel isolated and unseen as well.
Here is an example that you might be able to understand: in pre-covid times I would frequently make eye contact with total strangers in a grocery store and exchange a quick smile. This acknowledges that I've seen the other person and they've seen me. It gives me a good feeling to know that even a stranger is willing to take that extra second to be pleasant to other people around them.
Now, when everyone is wearing a mask it's like they aren't even human anymore. People in the grocery store are just obstacles to be navigated around; 6 ft. apart of course.
Masks prevent me from immediately recognizing the humanity of another person. It's not a good change.
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I find that if you nod, most will nod back.
It really surprised me how many people seem unable to recognize even friends in a mask, but then that always struck me as odd for masquerade balls, as well. I think it is like people who claim that can't understand anyone. Many of us look and listen differently when we have a mask on. It is a word we have long used to describe psychological barriers.
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I'm confused that masks are the precaution people are excited about ditching. Masks have not negatively impacted my quality of life in any way; they are a mild nuisance, hardly the largest sacrifice I've made.
When recalibrating what risks I'll be willing to accept post-vaccination, "not wearing a mask anymore" never crossed my mind. I'm thinking, "expand my bubble to another vaccinated household."
I agree. I am so ready to see my family again, I don't even care if I'm still wearing masks everywhere.
Masks make me feel isolated and unseen as well.
Here is an example that you might be able to understand: in pre-covid times I would frequently make eye contact with total strangers in a grocery store and exchange a quick smile. This acknowledges that I've seen the other person and they've seen me. It gives me a good feeling to know that even a stranger is willing to take that extra second to be pleasant to other people around them.
Now, when everyone is wearing a mask it's like they aren't even human anymore. People in the grocery store are just obstacles to be navigated around; 6 ft. apart of course.
Masks prevent me from immediately recognizing the humanity of another person. It's not a good change.
Interesting. I find myself still making eye contact with people, and making facial expressions under my mask. I feel like even with part of my face covered, there are still enough visual cues to tell if a person is smiling and being friendly - there are accompanying motions like nods and head tilts - lots of information and personality can still be conveyed with a mask. At first things were a little awkward, but many months later, I've at least adjusted; masks seem very human.
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This may sound weird, but both dislike wearing a mask (mostly because it fogs my glasses and can be very uncomfortable after several hours) but I also am not looking forward to it going away. There's a part of me that likes having a mask on in public. I tend to stand out in any crowd, and the mask helps me feel like I'm standing out a bit less. I've also been told by multiple people that my expression can come across as incredulous, when normally I'm thinking about something else entirely (a variant of "resting bitch face" maybe?). A mask makes my face more neutral, and people seem to concentrate on my words more. Most of all I like how it's become acceptable to cover your face in public.
Does anyone else share unexpected feelings towards wearing a mask?
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I wear a mask, but hate everything about it and will be glad when it goes.
- My glasses fog up (not too bad in the summer where I've found ways to control it, fucking awful in winter).
- I constantly feel like I'm suffocating
- the rubbing and material touching my face makes my skin break out all the time
- It's hard to talk to others, they don't always hear what you have to say
- It's harder to communicate with others. There's a surprising amount of info that's transmitted by facial expression.
Social distancing is fine, and in many instances preferable to what we did in the before times though. I hate other humans being in close proximity to me, and it has been lovely to be socially allowed to go out of my way to avoid others while walking on the sidewalk.
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I'm confused that masks are the precaution people are excited about ditching. Masks have not negatively impacted my quality of life in any way; they are a mild nuisance, hardly the largest sacrifice I've made.....
What a wide variety of people we are.
Wearing masks (and yes, I do it) is actually the most bothersome precaution to me. It has definitely negatively impacted my mental health and my interaction with the wider world. It makes me feel very isolated and unseen.
....
I'm not trying to be snarky. I literally cannot figure out what you mean here. Unless you are an actor or model etc., how does a mask make you feel isolated and unseen? I barely even notice I'm wearing one anymore...
Masks make me feel isolated and unseen as well.
Here is an example that you might be able to understand: in pre-covid times I would frequently make eye contact with total strangers in a grocery store and exchange a quick smile. This acknowledges that I've seen the other person and they've seen me. It gives me a good feeling to know that even a stranger is willing to take that extra second to be pleasant to other people around them.
Now, when everyone is wearing a mask it's like they aren't even human anymore. People in the grocery store are just obstacles to be navigated around; 6 ft. apart of course.
Masks prevent me from immediately recognizing the humanity of another person. It's not a good change.
@Eowynd I see you.
That's a good way to explain it.
As someone who lives alone, it is very isolating not to see people's faces and to know that my face is not seen. Yes, I'm in touch with many friends and family but that is not the same to me as in-person interactions. In normal times, I talk to people on the phone basically to keep in touch until I can see them again. If I will never see you in-person again, I also probably will never call you. I hate talking on the phone. In many ways, talking thru masks has some of the separation that phone conversations have.
I go back to "What a wide variety of people we are."
And @wenchsenior I am happy for you that you do not experience this. I hope that you give room to others' lived experiences. Thank you for asking what I meant. I don't feel that I've explained it well but it's a strong feeling that is getting more and more disheartening as time goes by.
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OTOH - I've interviewed for a half-dozen positions during Covid and I did not like facing a panel-interview where I couldn't see anyone's face. It did make me focus a lot more on the quality of my answers (after bombing the first two interview), but my nervousness was ramped up to an entirely new level.
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Just got back from my second visit with family this month.
However we already had it, and my parents are very ok with the risk. They would much rather see grandkids and get covid, then not see them for a year. They are only young once.
To each their own and all.
Perhaps if one could control their personal ability to avoid contracting Covid or passing it on to others, this would be a true statement.
We haven't seen our granddaughter for nearly a year. We could never forgive ourselves if we jeopardized the health and safety of her family.
DH and I are pretty sure we contracted covid after a cross-country trip in late February, but that doesn't give us a right to treat this pandemic or our fellow human beings with anything less than full respect.
Same. It's confounding that people cannot make the connection about how THEIR actions will affect OTHERS, not just themselves.
On Masks:
I can see why people look forward to not wearing them. I think it's a few things, for me:
1. I only wear them outside the house, which for me these days is when I'm running and walking. While I've gotten used to running/ walking with a mask, it's not my favorite thing. Fogging up the glasses being the biggest annoyance.
2. It IS hard to recognize people in a mask. I wore a mask at work (semiconductor fab) for over 20 years. I got used to wearing a mask for 6-10 hours a day. It got to the point where I couldn't recognize people OUT of the mask until I really looked at their eyes.
3. Feeling unseen - meh, I wave at people when I'm out running/walking.
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We last saw my mother-in-law at Christmas 2019. Luckily she's been as diligent as wanting to stay safe as we are to keep her as such. We saw my parents, brother and SIL in July 2020, but it was outdoors (in their driveway, much to their disappointment we wouldn't go inside). Luckily my parents started taking things more seriously and were the ones to suggest not gathering for Thanksgiving or Christmas in 2020. (Little did they know we weren't going to go either way.) Hoping for at least a drive-by to say hello again sometime this year (3-hour drive).
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I'm confused that masks are the precaution people are excited about ditching. Masks have not negatively impacted my quality of life in any way; they are a mild nuisance, hardly the largest sacrifice I've made.
When recalibrating what risks I'll be willing to accept post-vaccination, "not wearing a mask anymore" never crossed my mind. I'm thinking, "expand my bubble to another vaccinated household."
I agree. I am so ready to see my family again, I don't even care if I'm still wearing masks everywhere.
Masks make me feel isolated and unseen as well.
Here is an example that you might be able to understand: in pre-covid times I would frequently make eye contact with total strangers in a grocery store and exchange a quick smile. This acknowledges that I've seen the other person and they've seen me. It gives me a good feeling to know that even a stranger is willing to take that extra second to be pleasant to other people around them.
Now, when everyone is wearing a mask it's like they aren't even human anymore. People in the grocery store are just obstacles to be navigated around; 6 ft. apart of course.
Masks prevent me from immediately recognizing the humanity of another person. It's not a good change.
Interesting. I find myself still making eye contact with people, and making facial expressions under my mask. I feel like even with part of my face covered, there are still enough visual cues to tell if a person is smiling and being friendly - there are accompanying motions like nods and head tilts - lots of information and personality can still be conveyed with a mask. At first things were a little awkward, but many months later, I've at least adjusted; masks seem very human.
Yes, this is how I feel. I mean, I'm not at all inclined to go around making eye contact with strangers in the store just because. However, I've had no problem reading visual cues with masked people that I see semi-regularly (store checkout, gym front desk, etc). And I can 'read' and communicate with anyone I have a close relationship with just fine with masks on.
I wonder if this is another one of those mysterious extrovert vs introvert differences/barriers?
-
This may sound weird, but both dislike wearing a mask (mostly because it fogs my glasses and can be very uncomfortable after several hours) but I also am not looking forward to it going away. There's a part of me that likes having a mask on in public. I tend to stand out in any crowd, and the mask helps me feel like I'm standing out a bit less. I've also been told by multiple people that my expression can come across as incredulous, when normally I'm thinking about something else entirely (a variant of "resting bitch face" maybe?). A mask makes my face more neutral, and people seem to concentrate on my words more. Most of all I like how it's become acceptable to cover your face in public.
Does anyone else share unexpected feelings towards wearing a mask?
I don't have strong positive feelings toward masking, but I also don't care if random people look at me...I only care about that if I know someone well. Being looked at in public doesn't play any role in my sense of self (except for a short period of time in my late teens and early twenties when we all sort of test-drive our identities a bit, and I was on the dating market then, so it was sort of 'advertisement' in a way). I do LOVE having more physical space, though...strangers up close to me is not fun at all.
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I'm confused that masks are the precaution people are excited about ditching. Masks have not negatively impacted my quality of life in any way; they are a mild nuisance, hardly the largest sacrifice I've made.....
What a wide variety of people we are.
Wearing masks (and yes, I do it) is actually the most bothersome precaution to me. It has definitely negatively impacted my mental health and my interaction with the wider world. It makes me feel very isolated and unseen.
....
I'm not trying to be snarky. I literally cannot figure out what you mean here. Unless you are an actor or model etc., how does a mask make you feel isolated and unseen? I barely even notice I'm wearing one anymore...
Masks make me feel isolated and unseen as well.
Here is an example that you might be able to understand: in pre-covid times I would frequently make eye contact with total strangers in a grocery store and exchange a quick smile. This acknowledges that I've seen the other person and they've seen me. It gives me a good feeling to know that even a stranger is willing to take that extra second to be pleasant to other people around them.
Now, when everyone is wearing a mask it's like they aren't even human anymore. People in the grocery store are just obstacles to be navigated around; 6 ft. apart of course.
Masks prevent me from immediately recognizing the humanity of another person. It's not a good change.
@Eowynd I see you.
That's a good way to explain it.
As someone who lives alone, it is very isolating not to see people's faces and to know that my face is not seen. Yes, I'm in touch with many friends and family but that is not the same to me as in-person interactions. In normal times, I talk to people on the phone basically to keep in touch until I can see them again. If I will never see you in-person again, I also probably will never call you. I hate talking on the phone. In many ways, talking thru masks has some of the separation that phone conversations have.
I go back to "What a wide variety of people we are."
And @wenchsenior I am happy for you that you do not experience this. I hope that you give room to others' lived experiences. Thank you for asking what I meant. I don't feel that I've explained it well but it's a strong feeling that is getting more and more disheartening as time goes by.
Yeah, just b/c I can't relate to this at all doesn't mean your experience isn't valid.
I DID think of one way our experiences might be crossing over each other a bit though. Although I don't have any general trouble humanizing people with masks, there is one exception. If I see anyone NOT masked, my automatic assumption is that they are a selfish asshole and not worth my attention or time. So that's a definite dehumanizing reaction, though it's to LACKING a mask.
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I haven't seen either grandmother in over a year. Only seen nieces/nephews maybe once or twice in the past year; Christmas was done via Zoom. I see my parents almost every weekend, but it's outdoors at a dog park. They signed up today to get their vaccines (WI started allowing 65+ to get them; mom turns 65 tomorrow!).
Once they're vaccinated I'll be more open to their invitations to come over (my girlfriend has already gotten both vaccine doses).
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We have avoided anything that wasnt outside and with masks and distancing. Ironically we did just book today for 5 of us to fly to Florida April 1st for My Fathers 80th B-day and 50th Wedding Anniversary. So hoping things really calm down from now till then.
-
Vaccination is not a guarantee of safety from getting or transmitting the virus.
Until the second dose of the vaccine it's unknown how much protection a person has from covid. Even after the second dose, one in twenty people who are fully vaccinated can still get coronavirus (the numbers aren't settled, but expected to be worse for the new mutations of coronavirus - estimates of around one in five have been put forth).
https://www.nejm.org/covid-vaccine/faq?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20210118&instance_id=26125&nl=the-morning®i_id=116912467&segment_id=49584&te=1&user_id=87315a3db703b6268907da45684fef69
****
There are several good reasons to be optimistic about the vaccines’ effect on disease transmission. First, in the Moderna trial. opens in new tab, participants underwent nasopharyngeal swab PCR testing at baseline and again at week 4, when they returned for their second dose. Among those who were negative at baseline and without symptoms, 39 (0.3%) in the placebo group and 15 (0.1%) in the mRNA-1273 group had nasopharyngeal swabs that were positive for SARS-CoV-2 by PCR at week 4. These data suggest that even after one dose, the vaccine has a protective effect in preventing asymptomatic infection.
Second, findings from population-based studies now suggest that people without symptoms are less likely to transmit the virus to others. Third, it would be highly unlikely in biological terms for a vaccine to prevent disease and not also prevent infection. If there is an example of a vaccine in widespread clinical use that has this selective effect — prevents disease but not infection — I can’t think of one!
Some of my colleagues have now reminded me that certain vaccines (diphtheria, meningitis B, and pertussis) allow asymptomatic colonization, and no doubt this will sometimes be true about the Covid-19 vaccines. Plus, the protective effect will never be 100%, which is why while case numbers are still high, we still recommend the use of social distancing and masking in public. These caveats notwithstanding, the likelihood that these vaccines will reduce the capacity to transmit the virus to others remains excellent. (Last reviewed/updated on 18 Jan 2021)...
*****
Nothing written here contradicts anything in my post.
Dude, deep breath. I wasn't contradicting you, just adding to the knowledge base.
-
I'm confused that masks are the precaution people are excited about ditching. Masks have not negatively impacted my quality of life in any way; they are a mild nuisance, hardly the largest sacrifice I've made.
When recalibrating what risks I'll be willing to accept post-vaccination, "not wearing a mask anymore" never crossed my mind. I'm thinking, "expand my bubble to another vaccinated household."
I agree. I am so ready to see my family again, I don't even care if I'm still wearing masks everywhere.
Masks make me feel isolated and unseen as well.
Here is an example that you might be able to understand: in pre-covid times I would frequently make eye contact with total strangers in a grocery store and exchange a quick smile. This acknowledges that I've seen the other person and they've seen me. It gives me a good feeling to know that even a stranger is willing to take that extra second to be pleasant to other people around them.
Now, when everyone is wearing a mask it's like they aren't even human anymore. People in the grocery store are just obstacles to be navigated around; 6 ft. apart of course.
Masks prevent me from immediately recognizing the humanity of another person. It's not a good change.
Interesting. I find myself still making eye contact with people, and making facial expressions under my mask. I feel like even with part of my face covered, there are still enough visual cues to tell if a person is smiling and being friendly - there are accompanying motions like nods and head tilts - lots of information and personality can still be conveyed with a mask. At first things were a little awkward, but many months later, I've at least adjusted; masks seem very human.
Yes, this is how I feel. I mean, I'm not at all inclined to go around making eye contact with strangers in the store just because. However, I've had no problem reading visual cues with masked people that I see semi-regularly (store checkout, gym front desk, etc). And I can 'read' and communicate with anyone I have a close relationship with just fine with masks on.
I wonder if this is another one of those mysterious extrovert vs introvert differences/barriers?
I'm definitely an introvert when it comes to information processing.
I'm really good at recognizing people though (many times I recognize people without seeing their faces). If masking made it hard for me to identify people (like a couple other posters mentioned), I might have more of a problem with it.
More on topic ... I haven't seen my family since December 2019. They live relatively close to each other, but I live 800 miles away, and typically stay with them for an average of 3 weeks per year during my visits home. It has been very easy to physically stay away to keep us all safe, but it has been very hard emotionally. I miss them so much.
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This may sound weird, but both dislike wearing a mask (mostly because it fogs my glasses and can be very uncomfortable after several hours) but I also am not looking forward to it going away. There's a part of me that likes having a mask on in public. I tend to stand out in any crowd, and the mask helps me feel like I'm standing out a bit less. I've also been told by multiple people that my expression can come across as incredulous, when normally I'm thinking about something else entirely (a variant of "resting bitch face" maybe?). A mask makes my face more neutral, and people seem to concentrate on my words more. Most of all I like how it's become acceptable to cover your face in public.
Does anyone else share unexpected feelings towards wearing a mask?
Masks make me feel much less self-conscious of being judged by my appearance. To be clear, it's not the appearance I'm self-conscious of; it's the potential judgement for not fulfilling appearance-related expectations (like wearing makeup). It's been interesting to be suddenly relieved of a very minor but constant background hum of anxiety.
Masks are still annoying to manage, and it's not a net benefit. But it's a silver lining.
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By national law, I'm obliged to wear a face mask at my office workstation and a face mask + face shield combo whenever I am in any public place. That means I'm wearing a mask at least 10 hours a day.
I disliked wearing masks until I found one that was comfortable, breathable, did not fog up my glasses, did not cause maskne, and had good UV protection. (Here's a link to the mask I use (http://www.uniqlo.com/us/en/page/featured-airismmask.html)).
When our national mask mandate started in March 2020, it was definitely unsettling and stressful. I can relate to @Eowynd 's grocery store experience. It was the same for me for a few months.
But after almost a year of wearing masks, people have found ways to adapt. Simple gestures, such as eye contact, smiling with one's eyes, nodding or bowing in acknowledgment, speaking a bit louder than one normally would, have all become social norms. None of these gestures require seeing the other's full face.
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I'm confused that masks are the precaution people are excited about ditching. Masks have not negatively impacted my quality of life in any way; they are a mild nuisance, hardly the largest sacrifice I've made.
When recalibrating what risks I'll be willing to accept post-vaccination, "not wearing a mask anymore" never crossed my mind. I'm thinking, "expand my bubble to another vaccinated household."
What a wide variety of people we are.
Wearing masks (and yes, I do it) is actually the most bothersome precaution to me. It has definitely negatively impacted my mental health and my interaction with the wider world. It makes me feel very isolated and unseen.
Which is kinda funny because most of my work is in operating rooms where we wear them almost all the time anyway. In normal times, that was fine. In these times, it's verging on too much.
I'm not trying to be snarky. I literally cannot figure out what you mean here. Unless you are an actor or model etc., how does a mask make you feel isolated and unseen? I barely even notice I'm wearing one anymore...
Masks make me feel isolated and unseen as well.
Here is an example that you might be able to understand: in pre-covid times I would frequently make eye contact with total strangers in a grocery store and exchange a quick smile. This acknowledges that I've seen the other person and they've seen me. It gives me a good feeling to know that even a stranger is willing to take that extra second to be pleasant to other people around them.
Now, when everyone is wearing a mask it's like they aren't even human anymore. People in the grocery store are just obstacles to be navigated around; 6 ft. apart of course.
Masks prevent me from immediately recognizing the humanity of another person. It's not a good change.
Odd, I don’t have that reaction at all. To me, the masks signify that we’re all willing to do something to try to protect each other, and that gives me a bit of the warm fuzzies. When I do go out, I can still look people in the eye, nod, and make small talk. I wore a mask for 17 hours straight on Election Day and had great conversations with my fellow poll workers and lots of good, friendly interactions with voters (all masked). I had recently had a weird but adorable conversation about lasagna noodles with a little old lady at Meijer, and a friendly chat with the owner of the cafe where I recently picked up dinner. Plus, my nose always gets cold in winter. The masks have the added bonus of keeping my face warm.
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Maybe there's a disconnect between people who live in places where mask wearing is universally accepted and even celebrated as a way to protect others, and people who live in places where masks are seen as an inconvenience, as an unnatural way to live, or another of the less scientifically acceptable reasons to reject masks. People in the latter situation probably feel the isolation much more acutely.
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Maybe there's a disconnect between people who live in places where mask wearing is universally accepted and even celebrated as a way to protect others, and people who live in places where masks are seen as an inconvenience, as an unnatural way to live, or another of the less scientifically acceptable reasons to reject masks. People in the latter situation probably feel the isolation much more acutely.
I don't agree. Mask wearing is universally accepted in my rather scientifically minded area and I definitely feel less connected to strangers. Interaction and connection is far more minimal as everyone is wearing a mask and trying to get in and out of any social situation, by nature of the pandemic. I'm not familiar with mask wearing being "celebrated" as a means of protecting people though, it's just a fact of life.
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Maybe there's a disconnect between people who live in places where mask wearing is universally accepted and even celebrated as a way to protect others, and people who live in places where masks are seen as an inconvenience, as an unnatural way to live, or another of the less scientifically acceptable reasons to reject masks. People in the latter situation probably feel the isolation much more acutely.
I don't agree. Mask wearing is universally accepted in my rather scientifically minded area and I definitely feel less connected to strangers. Interaction and connection is far more minimal as everyone is wearing a mask and trying to get in and out of any social situation, by nature of the pandemic. I'm not familiar with mask wearing being "celebrated" as a means of protecting people though, it's just a fact of life.
Let me clarify, when I wrote "celebrated," I didn't mean celebrate like a party. More like a valorization of the effort that people make to wear masks and stay distanced. It's the new behavioral standard to which we hold people accountable, and at least in my area, it is the behavior that is rewarded with social approval.
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I have a condition wherein facial recognition is hard except for people I work with on a regular basis. It isn’t complete lack of recognition since I can identify my immediate fairly accurately and other family members & friends if they don’t change their hair too much. I rely more on gait/stance and other characteristics. As you can imagine, masks make this much more difficult (and on top of this we moved to a new state where we know only a few people). Weirdly this has forced me to be more interactive with others since I can’t be sure if they’re one of my friends or not until they start talking or I see them walking from afar. I thought that’d be a funny anecdote to share.
I do agree it sucks having to wear a mask all day in the OR and then having to wear it elsewhere. Oh well.
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Maybe there's a disconnect between people who live in places where mask wearing is universally accepted and even celebrated as a way to protect others, and people who live in places where masks are seen as an inconvenience, as an unnatural way to live, or another of the less scientifically acceptable reasons to reject masks. People in the latter situation probably feel the isolation much more acutely.
I don't agree. Mask wearing is universally accepted in my rather scientifically minded area and I definitely feel less connected to strangers. Interaction and connection is far more minimal as everyone is wearing a mask and trying to get in and out of any social situation, by nature of the pandemic. I'm not familiar with mask wearing being "celebrated" as a means of protecting people though, it's just a fact of life.
Let me clarify, when I wrote "celebrated," I didn't mean celebrate like a party. More like a valorization of the effort that people make to wear masks and stay distanced. It's the new behavioral standard to which we hold people accountable, and at least in my area, it is the behavior that is rewarded with social approval.
I understood your use of celebrated, I just don't agree with you. Mask wearing is a behavioral standard in my area. I disagree that it helps people feel less isolated.
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Maybe there's a disconnect between people who live in places where mask wearing is universally accepted and even celebrated as a way to protect others, and people who live in places where masks are seen as an inconvenience, as an unnatural way to live, or another of the less scientifically acceptable reasons to reject masks. People in the latter situation probably feel the isolation much more acutely.
No, they're just selfish jackasses or willfully ignorant about the science, or both. And probably American.
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I have a condition wherein facial recognition is hard except for people I work with on a regular basis. It isn’t complete lack of recognition since I can identify my immediate fairly accurately and other family members & friends if they don’t change their hair too much. I rely more on gait/stance and other characteristics. As you can imagine, masks make this much more difficult (and on top of this we moved to a new state where we know only a few people). Weirdly this has forced me to be more interactive with others since I can’t be sure if they’re one of my friends or not until they start talking or I see them walking from afar. I thought that’d be a funny anecdote to share.
I do agree it sucks having to wear a mask all day in the OR and then having to wear it elsewhere. Oh well.
Interesting, as I thought my tendency to recognize by gait and gestures was one reason I DON'T see masks as isolating.
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I'm confused that masks are the precaution people are excited about ditching. Masks have not negatively impacted my quality of life in any way; they are a mild nuisance, hardly the largest sacrifice I've made.
When recalibrating what risks I'll be willing to accept post-vaccination, "not wearing a mask anymore" never crossed my mind. I'm thinking, "expand my bubble to another vaccinated household."
I agree. I am so ready to see my family again, I don't even care if I'm still wearing masks everywhere.
Masks make me feel isolated and unseen as well.
Here is an example that you might be able to understand: in pre-covid times I would frequently make eye contact with total strangers in a grocery store and exchange a quick smile. This acknowledges that I've seen the other person and they've seen me. It gives me a good feeling to know that even a stranger is willing to take that extra second to be pleasant to other people around them.
Now, when everyone is wearing a mask it's like they aren't even human anymore. People in the grocery store are just obstacles to be navigated around; 6 ft. apart of course.
Masks prevent me from immediately recognizing the humanity of another person. It's not a good change.
Interesting. I find myself still making eye contact with people, and making facial expressions under my mask. I feel like even with part of my face covered, there are still enough visual cues to tell if a person is smiling and being friendly - there are accompanying motions like nods and head tilts - lots of information and personality can still be conveyed with a mask. At first things were a little awkward, but many months later, I've at least adjusted; masks seem very human.
Yes, this is how I feel. I mean, I'm not at all inclined to go around making eye contact with strangers in the store just because. However, I've had no problem reading visual cues with masked people that I see semi-regularly (store checkout, gym front desk, etc). And I can 'read' and communicate with anyone I have a close relationship with just fine with masks on.
I wonder if this is another one of those mysterious extrovert vs introvert differences/barriers?
In general, I would describe myself as an introvert. I like being around people but I need some alone time to recharge my batteries.
My hypothesis is that people who are single or live alone are more likely to be looking for the type of connection that I described. People who have partners and/or children at home already get enough of that. @MoseyingAlong sounds like they live alone.
To take the hypothesis further, I think that this hearkens back to the human tribal instinct. If I am living alone then my subconscious mind recognizes that something is off. I want to feel included because, historically, that was my best chance of long term survival. Getting a nod and a smile from a stranger in a public place feels like being included in the tribe even if it is just for a second.
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I live alone.
(ETA: I don't find masks particularly isolating. I *DO FEEL ISOLATED* since I can't see my family and I have only seen my friends 4 times since March. BUT I don't ascribe this isolation to masking, since masking is what actually allows me to interact with people when I leave the house - and yes, I do need these small interactions to feel connected, but I still get them while wearing masks.)
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YES! I don't live alone, but I WFH by myself and with no pets. I don't have routine work meetings either, so I really only talk to my husband for like 2 hours a day. I'm not a zoomer either, it's too exhausting to listen to all the loudies talk over each other and sit back with a pleasant smile. It's extremely isolating. I maybe only leave the house 1-2 times a week. I find myself talking to anyone and everyone on the few times I go out. Cashier, clerk, whatever. I think the first time we went to a bar (outside) in July, I talked to the waiter for 15 minutes straight. I'm an extreme introvert. I do smile and say hello now to almost everyone I pass on the street. But with the masks and my low volume voice, I feel unseen often also. I feel like masks have upped the divide between people even more. But maybe it's just because stragglers like me that don't have family around have really beared the brunt of an extra layer of isolation.
Thinking back on it now, BLM and the overall divisiveness in the country were also a big part on why I started to ensure on my walks I made eye contact or said hello to passerbys. There's a lot of people struggling and a lot of anger between people who have different opinions going on. Acknowledging each other, instead of pretending your'e in a bubble with your mask on, is just a small step in feeling like we are neighbors.
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I live alone. I feel happy when I am out and people wear masks and keep their 2M distance, because it means we all are being careful of each other and following the lockdown rules. We nod at each other, I can still chat a bit with cashiers. What makes the big difference is Zoom and Skype, where I can chat with friends and family face to face and participate in most of my pre-pandemic group activities.
ETA I am definitely in the introvert camp.
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YES! I don't live alone, but I WFH by myself and with no pets. I don't have routine work meetings either, so I really only talk to my husband for like 2 hours a day. I'm not a zoomer either, it's too exhausting to listen to all the loudies talk over each other and sit back with a pleasant smile. It's extremely isolating. I maybe only leave the house 1-2 times a week. I find myself talking to anyone and everyone on the few times I go out. Cashier, clerk, whatever. I think the first time we went to a bar (outside) in July, I talked to the waiter for 15 minutes straight. I'm an extreme introvert. I do smile and say hello now to almost everyone I pass on the street. But with the masks and my low volume voice, I feel unseen often also. I feel like masks have upped the divide between people even more. But maybe it's just because stragglers like me that don't have family around have really beared the brunt of an extra layer of isolation.
So based a small sample here, it doesn't seem like my guess that this is an introvert vs extrovert thing is accurate after all. You are an extreme introvert who finds masks upsetting and is craving outside contact. Whereas, I also am introverted, work from home, and even pre-pandemic would regularly go weeks talking (in person) only to my spouse and the occasional clerk-interaction. And I was fine with that. All the pandemic changed was adding masks, but as I noted above, that hasn't changed my feelings about social contact, either.
This is SO interesting. I predict an absolute avalanche of psych and sociology degrees coming out of this pandemic...
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Another introvert here who has no concerns about interacting with people wearing masks, whether I know them or not.
I understand that most people process most of their information visually - something which is emphasised in any speaker training or interviewing training, where visual impression and for speakers visual aids are given a lot of importance. But perhaps there are differences in the importance of the visual to different people, and that this mask-wearing phase will be the source of research on that, in particular the possibility that different levels of importance are placed on seeing faces vs seeing the whole person vs not seeing them at all. Or seeing people in person vs over the internet.
Everyone is different, perhaps this is another and so-far unrecognised way in which we are different.
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Maybe there's a disconnect between people who live in places where mask wearing is universally accepted and even celebrated as a way to protect others, and people who live in places where masks are seen as an inconvenience, as an unnatural way to live, or another of the less scientifically acceptable reasons to reject masks. People in the latter situation probably feel the isolation much more acutely.
I don't agree. Mask wearing is universally accepted in my rather scientifically minded area and I definitely feel less connected to strangers. Interaction and connection is far more minimal as everyone is wearing a mask and trying to get in and out of any social situation, by nature of the pandemic. I'm not familiar with mask wearing being "celebrated" as a means of protecting people though, it's just a fact of life.
This is part of the disconnect for me I guess, because I have no desire, pre- or post-mask times, to connect with strangers. What you are describing is a feature, not a bug (for me).
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Maybe there's a disconnect between people who live in places where mask wearing is universally accepted and even celebrated as a way to protect others, and people who live in places where masks are seen as an inconvenience, as an unnatural way to live, or another of the less scientifically acceptable reasons to reject masks. People in the latter situation probably feel the isolation much more acutely.
I don't agree. Mask wearing is universally accepted in my rather scientifically minded area and I definitely feel less connected to strangers. Interaction and connection is far more minimal as everyone is wearing a mask and trying to get in and out of any social situation, by nature of the pandemic. I'm not familiar with mask wearing being "celebrated" as a means of protecting people though, it's just a fact of life.
This is part of the disconnect for me I guess, because I have no desire, pre- or post-mask times, to connect with strangers. What you are describing is a feature, not a bug (for me).
The other issue I've noticed is the much lower chance there is to run into someone I know (and like). That's certainly due to less people going out, including myself. But mask wearing and distancing makes it hard for me to recognize people or have a casual conversation. So I don't put much effort into looking at "strangers" for familiarity. People also seem less likely to return a greeting or gesture while masked but that could be because they are harder to hear and see (smiling) while masked.
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@Psychstache I'm the same: "This is part of the disconnect for me I guess, because I have no desire, pre- or post-mask times, to connect with strangers."
Even pre-pandemic, most of my casual social connections were online. That's probably why I didn't feel the loss of in-person casual social contact as much as others did.
@charis It's been interesting to see on this thread so many different attitudes towards mask wearing. We all (mostly) agree it's important to wear masks, but the posters run the spectrum from "Masks are great! I love wearing them" to "I'm only putting up with them as long as I have to."
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@Psychstache I'm the same: "This is part of the disconnect for me I guess, because I have no desire, pre- or post-mask times, to connect with strangers."
Even pre-pandemic, most of my casual social connections were online. That's probably why I didn't feel the loss of in-person casual social contact as much as others did.
@charis It's been interesting to see on this thread so many different attitudes towards mask wearing. We all (mostly) agree it's important to wear masks, but the posters run the spectrum from "Masks are great! I love wearing them" to "I'm only putting up with them as long as I have to."
I see several posters conflating a general dislike of mask wearing with a bad attitude toward mask wearing and desire to ditch them as soon as possible. That's not accurate. I dislike mask wearing because I prefer to have unencumbered interactions with people. My profession, family, neighborhood, and social network involve daily in person interactions, including casual acquaintances. Am I going to stop masking wearing and social distancing because I'd rather not do it? Heck no. Do I desire to connect with "strangers?" I don't know, I guess I don't view everyone as stranger vs. not a stranger. They are really just people I haven't met yet.
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I have a condition wherein facial recognition is hard except for people I work with on a regular basis. It isn’t complete lack of recognition since I can identify my immediate fairly accurately and other family members & friends if they don’t change their hair too much. I rely more on gait/stance and other characteristics. As you can imagine, masks make this much more difficult (and on top of this we moved to a new state where we know only a few people). Weirdly this has forced me to be more interactive with others since I can’t be sure if they’re one of my friends or not until they start talking or I see them walking from afar. I thought that’d be a funny anecdote to share.
I do agree it sucks having to wear a mask all day in the OR and then having to wear it elsewhere. Oh well.
OMG, I struggle with this too! OTOH, I'm super good at recognizing people by their voice. We humans have infinite variables, lol!
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So, here's WHY we're still avoiding family:
My brother and family flew from CT to LA 11 days ago, for the holiday weekend and his MIL and SIL's birthday. SIL's whole family congregated in SoCal, and spent the four days together: Mom & Dad, their four kids, and 11 of the grandkids.
My nephew - who had tested positive in March 2020 - tested positive again last week. My brother believes it is a "false positive" because "we all already had it in March, so we're immune!" The test was a PCR test, which I believe is the gold standard for testing.
Gah. This is EXACTLY why DH and I chose to cancel our trip to SoCal that same weekend - my brother planned to (and did!) rendezvous with our sister, her DH, and their son. No word yet to see if any of them have tested positive, although my sister and BIL on that side of the family have both had their first vaccination since they are health care workers.
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JUST CANCELED MY INTERNATIONAL TRIP NEXT MONTH!!!!!!!
I'm feeling both relieved and sad (maybe 75% relief to 25% sad, HA.) This wasn't a pleasure jaunt, it was for taking care of business after a death in the family, with a secondary purpose of seeing my mom and visiting some of my very elderly relatives. 90% of my family live overseas in a place with extremely strict traveling regulations and no COVID spread whatsoever, and I really wasn't looking forward to A) risking COVID by going to the airport and then flying for 18+ hours, layover, etc., and B) jumping through all the hoops of tests, weeks of isolated quarantine, etc. when I finally got there. Especially since I live in the plague epicenter (Los Angeles).
I'm just glad I was able to talk all involved family members into postponing my trip for a safer time, since I was concerned that some of them might decide to fly over and see me (YES, IT'S EXACTLY AS CRAZY STUPID AS IT SOUNDS) if I didn't go visit them.
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My dd and her fiancé are coming over for pizza. It’s about 20° out and we’ll eat by the fire pit. I’ve put out throws and hand warmers and when we get too cold they go home. LOL
Dd is the only one who’s been vaccinated so far, and she’s 26yo. Ohio seems to be baffled by this process.
I kinda like wearing a mask - warm and cozy! But I’ve also got some degree of face blindness so I identify people by voice, too.
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Whereas we had been seeing my in-laws weekly, looks like for the next few weeks we won't see them at all. Covid is going to burn through their house and they had absolutely no say in it:
My wife's three youngest siblings have autism, the youngest two are fraternal (boy/girl) teenage twins who are very low-functioning (mental age of 4 year olds, more or less). Autism is an incredibly complicated thing, and for girls it's still poorly understood. Long story short, SIL has mental health issues on top of autism, in the realm of depression/anxiety/bipolar disorder.
She (SIL) for reasons I won't go into, had to spend a month in a special care facility for people with specific mental health issues. They are on Medicaid and this was an unplanned event, so the facility would only keep her for as long as she needed to be stabilized. My MIL was told that she was to be discharged this past Friday, but on Wednesday she got a call that someone on SIL's floor tested positive for Covid and the facility's policy was to then test everyone on the floor regardless of whether there was contact. So, MIL asks "what happens if a positive test" and they say that "we are not a hospital and are not equipped to treat patients with Covid, further, since your daughter is being discharged any time spent here after discharge would be billed directly to you at full cost".
So, it's Friday, and MIL picks up SIL. Now, they've since pieced together a few things from what SIL can communicate to them, and this place was not a cool place to be (but, in-laws had no say in A- that she must stay in such a facility and B-which in the region she would stay in). Relevance to this thread?
Not 5 minutes after SIL gets in the car with MIL, MIL gets a call that SIL has tested positive and is currently infected with Covid.
Because of the autism, SIL has literally no other place to go than home. Rest of the household literally has no other place to go since their house is specifically equipped to be a safe environment for them. Because of the autism, and how the house is laid out, there's also absolutely no way to quarantine SIL or BIL from the rest of the family. So, for the next 2.5 weeks, we won't be seeing them until 24 days (incubation + infection) has passed or they all get neg. tests.
TLDR - Under circumstances that in-laws had no legal or medical control of, my wife's entire family now is exposed to and will likely all become infected with Covid.
(There is a bright spot - another of my wife's siblings was working at the time and we arranged for her to be able to stay with us for the next few weeks so she can continue to work [she works in, go figure, a different mental health facility and has to be tested regularly plus will be getting vax soon])
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Oh, that just sucks.
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We have a large family and have not really altered our get togethers since this whole mess started with no ill effects.
One sibling tested positive so had to isolate for a while, but that's about the extent of it.
In rural areas, there is not nearly so much fear of Covid. Some stores and restaurants we go to, few if any even wear masks.
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TLDR - Under circumstances that in-laws had no legal or medical control of, my wife's entire family now is exposed to and will likely all become infected with Covid.
(There is a bright spot - another of my wife's siblings was working at the time and we arranged for her to be able to stay with us for the next few weeks so she can continue to work [she works in, go figure, a different mental health facility and has to be tested regularly plus will be getting vax soon])
I hope everything ends well. If you can, give us an update in 2-3 weeks. I don't ask because I want to know the outcome but because my sisters family had covid in June. The family has multiple children, father got sick(took a month to get over it) but nobody else got sick in the family.(sick father stayed home for the whole month)
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Still not seeing family/friends.
I took one trip to the grocery store in two months, that's it, except for one holiday outing to a local Botanical Garden in late Dec.
Just heard that the first two of our friends received shots, can't wait to get mine.
I am worried about the new strains increasing the mortality rate, based on a live report I saw from an ICU in Brazil
their new variant affects the younger crowd in full force.
The doctor said they had one older (65) patient everyone else was in their 20s/30/40.
(Florida has a lot of interchange and visitors from Brazil).
My next trip outside the house will involve double masking and a face shield. If I wasn't concerned about someone pulling out a gun and shooting me, (yes, that has happened several times around here), I'd yell at the one or two people in the grocery store that defiantly do not wear a mask - wear the damn mask!
@chemistk - you did a wonderful thing helping out the one person you could:).
I hope it all ends well for everyone, what a tough situation to be in.
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I've been avoiding family for years, but nothing to do with COVID :)
I see friends outdoors. I wear a mask, but it doesn't bother me if others don't. As a fit, youngish person, I'm at low risk, and since I have no close contact with the elderly, I'm not worried about infecting others. Think for yourself, and make your own decisions.
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I live with my husband. We have a lot of family very close by and visit them in small subgroups while staying masked and outside. Last summer, we all gathered freely unmasked indoors, but then the rates started going up and our "bubble" started getting too big so we tightened things up over the fall. It was a hard decision at the time but we're already used to the new normal.
There are several seniors (early 70s) and a few younger ones with compromised immune systems. My husband's uncle died of covid a few weeks ago. He lived in another state so we hadn’t seen him since this all started. Sucks that we lost someone because many Americans prioritize their individual rights over other people's lives. I don't feel like the choice is mine to risk killing other people in my community. Social contract and all that. Wearing a mask is a pain in the ass and I hate it, but I do it so other people can live. Anyway, I'm excited that all the still-living seniors are now on waiting lists for the vaccine. I look forward to going into each others' houses again when the risk is lower. We'll bury the deceased uncle's ashes when the weather improves.
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I've been not only avoiding family but friends as well, if they have an un-vaccinated person in their personal bubble.
I seem to be one of the few folks who has actually tightened up on my social distancing in the last few weeks. Groceries only by delivery or pickup, no more volunteering, maintaining distance even when both of us are masked outside, etc. I was keenly aware that we'd see a spike after the holidays; now that I'm in this groove I'm fine maintaining it for as long as possible.
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I seem to be one of the few folks who has actually tightened up on my social distancing in the last few weeks.
You're not alone! Numbers got so high at the same time that pandemic fatigue apparently set in - I'm seeing more and more people not wearing masks indoors around other people. On the subway, in the grocery store, in my building, etc. I stopped going into any stores (I might consider running in to pick up takeout for 30 seconds but I haven't done it). Only exception is doctor's appointments, which are unfortunately not optional due to medical problems. I'm postponing an MRI, though, it would take a long time and be around a bunch of people, and it's not that urgent.
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I seem to be one of the few folks who has actually tightened up on my social distancing in the last few weeks.
You're not alone! Numbers got so high at the same time that pandemic fatigue apparently set in - I'm seeing more and more people not wearing masks indoors around other people. On the subway, in the grocery store, in my building, etc. I stopped going into any stores (I might consider running in to pick up takeout for 30 seconds but I haven't done it). Only exception is doctor's appointments, which are unfortunately not optional due to medical problems. I'm postponing an MRI, though, it would take a long time and be around a bunch of people, and it's not that urgent.
Same. We've just gone through an incredible spike in cases/hospitalizations/deaths here, and yet at midday in the grocery store yesterday there were the usual half dozen people (a decent percentage of the customers) maskless. This grocery store long since gave up on even attempting to require or enforce masking, actually right around the time the cases spiked.
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I seem to be one of the few folks who has actually tightened up on my social distancing in the last few weeks.
You're not alone! Numbers got so high at the same time that pandemic fatigue apparently set in - I'm seeing more and more people not wearing masks indoors around other people. On the subway, in the grocery store, in my building, etc. I stopped going into any stores (I might consider running in to pick up takeout for 30 seconds but I haven't done it). Only exception is doctor's appointments, which are unfortunately not optional due to medical problems. I'm postponing an MRI, though, it would take a long time and be around a bunch of people, and it's not that urgent.
Same. We've just gone through an incredible spike in cases/hospitalizations/deaths here, and yet at midday in the grocery store yesterday there were the usual half dozen people (a decent percentage of the customers) maskless. This grocery store long since gave up on even attempting to require or enforce masking, actually right around the time the cases spiked.
I'm so glad others agree. Been hearing about people going to Wal-Mart, restaurants, parties, etc. I just shake my head.
One family member is over 70 and should hopefully get her vaccines soon. But she lives with several other relatives of varying ages and occupations. I had thought about visiting this Spring but that's not going to happen. She's keeping a "Hugs Owed" log, lol.
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I seem to be one of the few folks who has actually tightened up on my social distancing in the last few weeks.
You're not alone! Numbers got so high at the same time that pandemic fatigue apparently set in - I'm seeing more and more people not wearing masks indoors around other people. On the subway, in the grocery store, in my building, etc. I stopped going into any stores (I might consider running in to pick up takeout for 30 seconds but I haven't done it). Only exception is doctor's appointments, which are unfortunately not optional due to medical problems. I'm postponing an MRI, though, it would take a long time and be around a bunch of people, and it's not that urgent.
Same. We've just gone through an incredible spike in cases/hospitalizations/deaths here, and yet at midday in the grocery store yesterday there were the usual half dozen people (a decent percentage of the customers) maskless. This grocery store long since gave up on even attempting to require or enforce masking, actually right around the time the cases spiked.
I'm so glad others agree. Been hearing about people going to Wal-Mart, restaurants, parties, etc. I just shake my head.
One family member is over 70 and should hopefully get her vaccines soon. But she lives with several other relatives of varying ages and occupations. I had thought about visiting this Spring but that's not going to happen. She's keeping a "Hugs Owed" log, lol.
My parents were so proud of themselves for getting their shots that they stopped at a restaurant to celebrate on the way home.
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I'm still avoiding everyone.
Vaccines are delayed, but cases are down here as people are (almost) all observing the lockdown. Quebec next door has a curfew. We also have some cases of the more infectious B117 variant, so no reason to be less careful.
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We also have some cases of the more infectious B117 variant, so no reason to be less careful.
Yeah, we have a bunch of cases of B117 in NYC now, so I wouldn't be surprised if cases start trending up again :-(
It is really beyond me how cases can be so high AND B117 can be spreading right here in the city and people are still on the subway and in the grocery store with no mask on.
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We also have some cases of the more infectious B117 variant, so no reason to be less careful.
Yeah, we have a bunch of cases of B117 in NYC now, so I wouldn't be surprised if cases start trending up again :-(
It is really beyond me how cases can be so high AND B117 can be spreading right here in the city and people are still on the subway and in the grocery store with no mask on.
Mask wearing is really good here. Still too many parties and other social gatherings, but now that the rules are being enforced and big fines are being levied, I expect that will settle down. Trump's loss seems to have some of our Conservative leaders back-pedaling on lax pandemic measures.
Prominent Canadians have been breaking the travel rules and getting no sympathy. If we hoi polloi have to suck it in and follow the rules, you elite have to too.
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We also have some cases of the more infectious B117 variant, so no reason to be less careful.
Yeah, we have a bunch of cases of B117 in NYC now, so I wouldn't be surprised if cases start trending up again :-(
It is really beyond me how cases can be so high AND B117 can be spreading right here in the city and people are still on the subway and in the grocery store with no mask on.
Mask wearing is really good here. Still too many parties and other social gatherings, but now that the rules are being enforced and big fines are being levied, I expect that will settle down. Trump's loss seems to have some of our Conservative leaders back-pedaling on lax pandemic measures.
Prominent Canadians have been breaking the travel rules and getting no sympathy. If we hoi polloi have to suck it in and follow the rules, you elite have to too.
We were stupid to allow frivolous travel to begin with (not to mention continuing it), and we're going to pay a heavy price for that idiocy. I wish Canadians would stop looking at the US and patting ourselves on the back instead of looking at New Zealand and asking why we're doing so shit.
Today we've confirmed 50 deaths at the old age home down the street from where my mother lives in Barrie. Three weeks since the entire staff and all residents were infected by the UK variant - which we think came from one employee who had contact with another person who travelled to the UK for a Christmas vacation.
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I've been not only avoiding family but friends as well, if they have an un-vaccinated person in their personal bubble.
I seem to be one of the few folks who has actually tightened up on my social distancing in the last few weeks. Groceries only by delivery or pickup, no more volunteering, maintaining distance even when both of us are masked outside, etc. I was keenly aware that we'd see a spike after the holidays; now that I'm in this groove I'm fine maintaining it for as long as possible.
We also tightened up. Well, we've been tight all along. My husband goes to the lab at the office when necessary. But I started getting grocery delivery.
Still, plenty of folks in my IG feed still hanging out with friends (maskless), going on vacation, etc. Our schools are still remote for the most part.
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I've been not only avoiding family but friends as well, if they have an un-vaccinated person in their personal bubble.
I seem to be one of the few folks who has actually tightened up on my social distancing in the last few weeks. Groceries only by delivery or pickup, no more volunteering, maintaining distance even when both of us are masked outside, etc. I was keenly aware that we'd see a spike after the holidays; now that I'm in this groove I'm fine maintaining it for as long as possible.
We also tightened up. Well, we've been tight all along. My husband goes to the lab at the office when necessary. But I started getting grocery delivery.
Still, plenty of folks in my IG feed still hanging out with friends (maskless), going on vacation, etc. Our schools are still remote for the most part.
We have also tightened up our safety measures. Cases are surging, best thing I can do is not interact with anyone in person without a really, really good reason (and then with distancing and masks)
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My family already had Covid, and my wife is now also vaccinated (teacher) so we're basically fine with seeing anyone who is also vaccinated/already had it. But that's not really that many people yet outside of other teachers. So mostly still isolating, though the kids/wife have been at school since last fall, so it's probably a bit silly.
-W
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My mom got her second vaccine already and is coming to visit us in a couple weeks. We haven't seen her since August.
Our area had a big surge in November/December but it's slowing down now. The vaccine rollout is painfully slow, but I'm hoping that most of us have it by summer.
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We also have some cases of the more infectious B117 variant, so no reason to be less careful.
Yeah, we have a bunch of cases of B117 in NYC now, so I wouldn't be surprised if cases start trending up again :-(
It is really beyond me how cases can be so high AND B117 can be spreading right here in the city and people are still on the subway and in the grocery store with no mask on.
Mask wearing is really good here. Still too many parties and other social gatherings, but now that the rules are being enforced and big fines are being levied, I expect that will settle down. Trump's loss seems to have some of our Conservative leaders back-pedaling on lax pandemic measures.
Prominent Canadians have been breaking the travel rules and getting no sympathy. If we hoi polloi have to suck it in and follow the rules, you elite have to too.
We were stupid to allow frivolous travel to begin with (not to mention continuing it), and we're going to pay a heavy price for that idiocy. I wish Canadians would stop looking at the US and patting ourselves on the back instead of looking at New Zealand and asking why we're doing so shit.
Today we've confirmed 50 deaths at the old age home down the street from where my mother lives in Barrie. Three weeks since the entire staff and all residents were infected by the UK variant - which we think came from one employee who had contact with another person who travelled to the UK for a Christmas vacation.
serious question. if you and your family already had covid and did not get sick/recovered, would you feel comfortable travelling? I think at least some percentage of the 'frivolous' travel is that.
I know myself and some of my friends/family had it back in November, and feel like now is a good time to travel.
thoughts?
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It's been 3 days since I've had my second dose of Moderna. I still haven't even eaten out yet. And I will still avoid family members outside of my household at this time due to COVID case levels in the area and lack of vaccinations among the family at this point.
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We also have some cases of the more infectious B117 variant, so no reason to be less careful.
Yeah, we have a bunch of cases of B117 in NYC now, so I wouldn't be surprised if cases start trending up again :-(
It is really beyond me how cases can be so high AND B117 can be spreading right here in the city and people are still on the subway and in the grocery store with no mask on.
Mask wearing is really good here. Still too many parties and other social gatherings, but now that the rules are being enforced and big fines are being levied, I expect that will settle down. Trump's loss seems to have some of our Conservative leaders back-pedaling on lax pandemic measures.
Prominent Canadians have been breaking the travel rules and getting no sympathy. If we hoi polloi have to suck it in and follow the rules, you elite have to too.
We were stupid to allow frivolous travel to begin with (not to mention continuing it), and we're going to pay a heavy price for that idiocy. I wish Canadians would stop looking at the US and patting ourselves on the back instead of looking at New Zealand and asking why we're doing so shit.
Today we've confirmed 50 deaths at the old age home down the street from where my mother lives in Barrie. Three weeks since the entire staff and all residents were infected by the UK variant - which we think came from one employee who had contact with another person who travelled to the UK for a Christmas vacation.
serious question. if you and your family already had covid and did not get sick/recovered, would you feel comfortable travelling? I think at least some percentage of the 'frivolous' travel is that.
I know myself and some of my friends/family had it back in November, and feel like now is a good time to travel.
thoughts?
Travel is a great way of spreading disease. Even if you're completely immune, your actions are causing pilots and crew to be disease vectors needlessly. Not to mention all the people being forced to come into contact with others to get your plane ready (mechanics, cleaners, etc.).
Things will be different once the majority of people are vaccinated, but right now travelling for fun is very self centered 'fuck everyone else' thing to do.
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serious question. if you and your family already had covid and did not get sick/recovered, would you feel comfortable travelling? I think at least some percentage of the 'frivolous' travel is that.
I know myself and some of my friends/family had it back in November, and feel like now is a good time to travel.
thoughts?
I would not, for a few reasons:
1) lead by example. Given caseloads we should be restricting all but essential travel, period.
2) it's still largely unknown to what degree formerly sick people might still be able to transmit the virus. According to our CDC, being a carrier is at least a plausible possibility.
3) New variants of the disease - much we don't know about them
4) We still don't know how long infection provides for immunity. It could be for life (but seems unlikely) - it could be a season or two.
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We also have some cases of the more infectious B117 variant, so no reason to be less careful.
Yeah, we have a bunch of cases of B117 in NYC now, so I wouldn't be surprised if cases start trending up again :-(
It is really beyond me how cases can be so high AND B117 can be spreading right here in the city and people are still on the subway and in the grocery store with no mask on.
Mask wearing is really good here. Still too many parties and other social gatherings, but now that the rules are being enforced and big fines are being levied, I expect that will settle down. Trump's loss seems to have some of our Conservative leaders back-pedaling on lax pandemic measures.
Prominent Canadians have been breaking the travel rules and getting no sympathy. If we hoi polloi have to suck it in and follow the rules, you elite have to too.
We were stupid to allow frivolous travel to begin with (not to mention continuing it), and we're going to pay a heavy price for that idiocy. I wish Canadians would stop looking at the US and patting ourselves on the back instead of looking at New Zealand and asking why we're doing so shit.
Today we've confirmed 50 deaths at the old age home down the street from where my mother lives in Barrie. Three weeks since the entire staff and all residents were infected by the UK variant - which we think came from one employee who had contact with another person who travelled to the UK for a Christmas vacation.
serious question. if you and your family already had covid and did not get sick/recovered, would you feel comfortable travelling? I think at least some percentage of the 'frivolous' travel is that.
I know myself and some of my friends/family had it back in November, and feel like now is a good time to travel.
thoughts?
Travel is a great way of spreading disease. Even if you're completely immune, your actions are causing pilots and crew to be disease vectors needlessly. Not to mention all the people being forced to come into contact with others to get your plane ready (mechanics, cleaners, etc.).
Things will be different once the majority of people are vaccinated, but right now travelling for fun is very self centered 'fuck everyone else' thing to do.
I would like to clarify that my mom is traveling by car. I plan to do all vacations by car this summer also, so that we can have picnics instead of going inside places to eat, unless the whole family is vaccinated and cases are way down. My college is working through spring break and we get done in early May. There was a nice article in the Atlantic about how all this doom and gloom about vaccine effectiveness might hinder the effort to get as many people vaccinated as possible (not an issue yet in my area because of shortages). Let people have something to look forward to.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/01/giving-people-more-freedom-whole-point-vaccines/617829/
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I think traveling by car is quite reasonable as long as you're able to limit interactions with people outside your household. We did this in the summer/early fall within New England when our numbers were low and did contactless check-in/out at hotels, outdoor dining and/or takeout. Didn't violate any travel restrictions.
I think socializing with other vaccinated people (if you can find any) is also reasonable if you're limiting interactions with unvaccinated people/people outside your household. I don't think I'd travel by plane, though. Not yet.
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serious question. if you and your family already had covid and did not get sick/recovered, would you feel comfortable travelling? I think at least some percentage of the 'frivolous' travel is that.
I know myself and some of my friends/family had it back in November, and feel like now is a good time to travel.
thoughts?
Our household has been in full work and school from home mode since last March. Trips canceled, only trips out of the house are for necessities or occasional hiking or other outdoor activities. Despite this, we got COVID around Christmas. My dad lives a couple states away (west, so think 10+ hours of driving) and had it last year. So, yes, we are planning to go visit and stay with them. As other more local relatives and friends get vaccinated, we will begin having get togethers. I also have a work trip coming up (plane travel) that I’m a lot less worried about than one I had to take last fall. I’ll take the same precautions now (N95, etc.) because I have the supplies, but my worry level is darn close to 0%.
I have been a big supporter and follower of the ‘rules’ during the pandemic. I believe that by working together, we can all do a little to make things better for everyone and especially to protect our most vulnerable. As people get vaccinated and as others recover from the actual illness, we need to find a way to live again. It will undoubtedly be different, but after the virus grew widespread, the whole lockdown was intended to be temporary to “flatten the curve”. As vaccinations and earned immunity become more widespread, we can flatten the curve without so many restrictions.
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It's been 3 days since I've had my second dose of Moderna. I still haven't even eaten out yet. And I will still avoid family members outside of my household at this time due to COVID case levels in the area and lack of vaccinations among the family at this point.
Efficacy for the second dose to get to 90%+ is about 2 weeks, FYI.
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It's been 3 days since I've had my second dose of Moderna. I still haven't even eaten out yet. And I will still avoid family members outside of my household at this time due to COVID case levels in the area and lack of vaccinations among the family at this point.
Efficacy for the second dose to get to 90%+ is about 2 weeks, FYI.
We just recorded a local nurse who had his second dose two weeks ago. He was surprised to have tested Covid positive yesterday:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-covid-19-positive-after-vaccination-1.5884463 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-covid-19-positive-after-vaccination-1.5884463)
So be aware that you could well be fully vaccinated and OK while spreading covid around to others.
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Only local family are my divorced parents. My husband and I lived with my mom until September last year, so we were very careful about only going essential places (grocery stores, etc.). Once we got our own place, we still visit in person (her place or ours) a few times per month. Generally maskless and indoors, but distanced. It's really the only socialization she gets, and she's ok with the risk. However, with the more-contagious strains, we're being more careful. Plus we've been attending some dog training classes (4 people per class, everyone masked, everyone separated by barriers to keep the dogs calm).
My dad and his partner are much more conservative. Until the fall spikes, he was fine being inside, distanced, masked. But, now it's only outside, masked for a very short time (with one visit in December inside, but masked and distanced). They both have their first vaccination, but they plan to continue being careful for some time even after their second.
As for masks, I usually have some issues with facial recognition and use other cues to recognize people (gait, hair, voice, etc.). I find that I rarely have much trouble recognizing somebody with a mask on because I don't usually depend on the lower half of the face (or the "whole" face) to begin with.
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Only local family are my divorced parents. My husband and I lived with my mom until September last year, so we were very careful about only going essential places (grocery stores, etc.). Once we got our own place, we still visit in person (her place or ours) a few times per month. Generally maskless and indoors, but distanced. It's really the only socialization she gets, and she's ok with the risk. However, with the more-contagious strains, we're being more careful. Plus we've been attending some dog training classes (4 people per class, everyone masked, everyone separated by barriers to keep the dogs calm).
My dad and his partner are much more conservative. Until the fall spikes, he was fine being inside, distanced, masked. But, now it's only outside, masked for a very short time (with one visit in December inside, but masked and distanced). They both have their first vaccination, but they plan to continue being careful for some time even after their second.
As for masks, I usually have some issues with facial recognition and use other cues to recognize people (gait, hair, voice, etc.). I find that I rarely have much trouble recognizing somebody with a mask on because I don't usually depend on the lower half of the face (or the "whole" face) to begin with.
How is your dad's behavior conservative? That's the recommendation for avoiding contracting the virus. This is why people are made to feel bad, because they are taking recommended precautions and their families act like it's "conservative."
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Sorry, perhaps you can explain why it is a bad thing to be conservative (or considered to be such), especially compared to those who choose to put themselves and others at risk. His risk threshold is simply higher than my mom's and behaves accordingly.
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Sorry, perhaps you can explain why it is a bad thing to be conservative (or considered to be such), especially compared to those who choose to put themselves and others at risk. His risk threshold is simply higher than my mom's and behaves accordingly.
It's not bad to be conservative. But to describe someone such in this situation, when they weren't observing certain covid protocols (no indoor gatherings with non household members) is a bizarre take. Just my opinion.
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Ok, now I'm a little confused. First you said,
How is your dad's behavior conservative? That's the recommendation for avoiding contracting the virus. This is why people are made to feel bad, because they are taking recommended precautions and their families act like it's "conservative."
Then you said,
It's not bad to be conservative. But to describe someone such in this situation, when they weren't observing certain covid protocols (no indoor gatherings with non household members) is a bizarre take. Just my opinion.
So first you say people feel bad for being considered conservative for following basic recommended precautions--if it makes them feel bad, then it must be a bad thing.
Then you say it's bizarre to call somebody conservative when they are not following basic recommended precautions (which my dad most definitely is following, minus a single visit in December). So I'm still not sure I follow, since on the surface these to statements seem contradictory.
My point was simply that my dad and his partner have lower risk tolerance than my mom ("My dad and his partner are much more conservative."), so they are being more cautious. Which is why I have only seen him once for more than 30 seconds since prior to the start of the fall spike in my area. Which is the topic of this post.
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I read @charis post as if they were saying that calling recommended behavior “conservative” is the issue. The doorknob lickers in our society think taking recommended precautions is ridiculous and excessive.
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I read @charis post as if they were saying that calling recommended behavior “conservative” is the issue. The doorknob lickers in our society think taking recommended precautions is ridiculous and excessive.
Yes. That was my point about you referring to following standard virus recommendations (or less) as a conservative practice.
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And I still don't understand what's wrong with calling it conservative? Conservative is literally a synonym for cautious. When one is risk averse, one exercises caution--in this case, following recommended precautions.
Anyway didn't mean to derail. Probably my last post on this thread unless I have something new and substantive to add.
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One set of our elderly parents called up and want to drive up and visit soon INSIDE. ?!?!?! None of us or them are vaccinated and DW and I are in public facing roles at work. Nope!
We'll see them in a couple of months. Trump supporters so you can guess the rest of their behavior during this pandemic.
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One set of our elderly parents called up and want to drive up and visit soon INSIDE. ?!?!?! None of us or them are vaccinated and DW and I are in public facing roles at work. Nope!
We'll see them in a couple of months. Trump supporters so you can guess the rest of their behavior during this pandemic.
Ours constantly want to visit inside. Not even Trump supporters. Just don't understand how it's spread, apparently.
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And I still don't understand what's wrong with calling it conservative? Conservative is literally a synonym for cautious. When one is risk averse, one exercises caution--in this case, following recommended precautions.
Anyway didn't mean to derail. Probably my last post on this thread unless I have something new and substantive to add.
I think they are thinking conservative in the political sense and you are using it in the behavioral sense (I.e. careful) which is the less commonly used meaning in the US (but not bizarre-esp. among people who learned English in a Commonwealth country). Also here basic hygiene has become a huge political issue, thus that meaning is automatically assumed.
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And I still don't understand what's wrong with calling it conservative? Conservative is literally a synonym for cautious. When one is risk averse, one exercises caution--in this case, following recommended precautions.
Anyway didn't mean to derail. Probably my last post on this thread unless I have something new and substantive to add.
I think they are thinking conservative in the political sense and you are using it in the behavioral sense (I.e. careful) which is the less commonly used meaning in the US (but not bizarre-esp. among people who learned English in a Commonwealth country). Also here basic hygiene has become a huge political issue, thus that meaning is automatically assumed.
This is probably it. "Conservative" has turned into such an ugly word in the States.
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One set of our elderly parents called up and want to drive up and visit soon INSIDE. ?!?!?! None of us or them are vaccinated and DW and I are in public facing roles at work. Nope!
We'll see them in a couple of months. Trump supporters so you can guess the rest of their behavior during this pandemic.
Ours constantly want to visit inside. Not even Trump supporters. Just don't understand how it's spread, apparently.
My family members as well. They keep saying "well we don't have Covid, so why not?" . I know they would never meet up with anyone if they knew they were infected, but the whole idea of a- and pre-symptomatic spreading is just something I can't seem to make them understand.
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And I still don't understand what's wrong with calling it conservative? Conservative is literally a synonym for cautious. When one is risk averse, one exercises caution--in this case, following recommended precautions.
Anyway didn't mean to derail. Probably my last post on this thread unless I have something new and substantive to add.
I think they are thinking conservative in the political sense and you are using it in the behavioral sense (I.e. careful) which is the less commonly used meaning in the US (but not bizarre-esp. among people who learned English in a Commonwealth country). Also here basic hygiene has become a huge political issue, thus that meaning is automatically assumed.
This is probably it. "Conservative" has turned into such an ugly word in the States.
Hey, two if my favorite forum peeps! @Abe, I've been wondering how you're doing. + Oh my, @Adventine, a new avatar!
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@Dicey hi, my favorite Senior Mustachian!
I'm still avoiding family due to COVID, but had a lovely 3 hour call with my grandparents in Australia. We were supposed to visit them in April 2020, and then the borders closed. They were supposed to visit us in August 2020, but the borders STAYED closed...
So no visits until we're all vaccinated. But we had a great time on video chat, and found out all sorts of juicy family gossip that we otherwise would never have found out.
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And I still don't understand what's wrong with calling it conservative? Conservative is literally a synonym for cautious. When one is risk averse, one exercises caution--in this case, following recommended precautions.
Anyway didn't mean to derail. Probably my last post on this thread unless I have something new and substantive to add.
I think they are thinking conservative in the political sense and you are using it in the behavioral sense (I.e. careful) which is the less commonly used meaning in the US (but not bizarre-esp. among people who learned English in a Commonwealth country). Also here basic hygiene has become a huge political issue, thus that meaning is automatically assumed.
What? This is super off base. I was connecting it to it's actual basic meaning, not anything political - you are the one who did that. This forum is getting really tiresome.
Calling someone "much more conservative" because they are following the minimum health guidelines during a pandemic is baffling to me. That applies to someone going beyond the minimum safety recommendations in my opinion. I understand that it was used as a comparison. Agree or disagree, fine, but try not to read politics into every use of the word conservative.
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@charis
COVID has become such a highly charged political issue in the States that any COVID-related thread is going to touch on politics at some point.
I do agree with you that it is tiresome to talk constantly about politics but I do hope you can see that the opinion from @Abe that I seconded is about the different uses of the word "conservative." What it means and how it comes across to different people.
But heck, now I'm tired of talking about this. Let's go back to the original topic.
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And I still don't understand what's wrong with calling it conservative? Conservative is literally a synonym for cautious. When one is risk averse, one exercises caution--in this case, following recommended precautions.
Anyway didn't mean to derail. Probably my last post on this thread unless I have something new and substantive to add.
I think they are thinking conservative in the political sense and you are using it in the behavioral sense (I.e. careful) which is the less commonly used meaning in the US (but not bizarre-esp. among people who learned English in a Commonwealth country). Also here basic hygiene has become a huge political issue, thus that meaning is automatically assumed.
This is probably it. "Conservative" has turned into such an ugly word in the States.
Yes, in this case conservative aka Trump voters aka this pandemic isn't nearly as bad as the media makes it out to be aka what do you mean 450K people have died from COVID in the USA? Ugh!
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@charis
COVID has become such a highly charged political issue in the States that any COVID-related thread is going to touch on politics at some point.
I do agree with you that it is tiresome to talk constantly about politics but I do hope you can see that the opinion from @Abe that I seconded is about the different uses of the word "conservative." What it means and how it comes across to different people.
But heck, now I'm tired of talking about this. Let's go back to the original topic.
Right, but I'm the poster who was pointedly accused of using the term politically, which is untrue. This was even specifically addressed earlier in the thread, so you can imagine my surprise to read the follow up comments.
I read @charis post as if they were saying that calling recommended behavior “conservative” is the issue. The doorknob lickers in our society think taking recommended precautions is ridiculous and excessive.
Yes. That was my point about you referring to following standard virus recommendations (or less) as a conservative practice.
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Who was accusing you? Abe, by saying something as mild as "I think they are thinking..."? I don't think that's what they meant, and I certainly did not mean to accuse you. For my part, I apologize as my offhand comment seems to have offended you.
Can we all agree to think kindly of each other and to start from the baseline that all these discussions are attempts to understand other people's points of view? And can we go back to the original topic?
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Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. I did not mean to aggravate anyone - if I did. Just used simple broad brush descriptors to describe my family. Their beliefs are XYZ which makes it easy to see how they react to a topic like COVID.
Wish they had more hobbies than did not include the latest rumors... Wish they were more discerning about their information sources.
I wish our gov't took COVID more seriously from the start. Perhaps we'd be in a better spot in Feb 2021 than we are. Where did January go?
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Who was accusing you? Abe, by saying something as mild as "I think they are thinking..."? I don't think that's what they meant, and I certainly did not mean to accuse you. For my part, I apologize as my offhand comment seems to have offended you.
Can we all agree to think kindly of each other and to start from the baseline that all these discussions are attempts to understand other people's points of view? And can we go back to the original topic?
I guess I am offended that I can't use the word conservative anymore without this happening, even after clarifying my point in a post that no one bothered to read.
And I still don't understand what's wrong with calling it conservative? Conservative is literally a synonym for cautious. When one is risk averse, one exercises caution--in this case, following recommended precautions.
Anyway didn't mean to derail. Probably my last post on this thread unless I have something new and substantive to add.
I think they are thinking conservative in the political sense and you are using it in the behavioral sense (I.e. careful) which is the less commonly used meaning in the US (but not bizarre-esp. among people who learned English in a Commonwealth country). Also here basic hygiene has become a huge political issue, thus that meaning is automatically assumed.
This is probably it. "Conservative" has turned into such an ugly word in the States.
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Again, I apologize as it was not my intention to provoke you, over something that I said in passing.
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What baffles me is why you believe no one bothered to read your post, @charis? You've received clarifications and very polite apologies. Why is that insufficient?
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What baffles me is why you believe no one bothered to read your post, @charis? You've received clarifications and very polite apologies. Why is that insufficient?
I didn't say the apology was insufficient - I appreciate it! Why/how are you baffled? I noted earlier that my point was behavioral (ie not political).
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What baffles me is why you believe no one bothered to read your post, @charis? You've received clarifications and very polite apologies. Why is that insufficient?
I didn't say the apology was insufficient - I appreciate it! Why/how are you baffled? I noted earlier that my point was behavioral (ie not political).
Um, because these words... "even after clarifying my point in a post that no one bothered to read" are in fact, quite baffling. How do you know that no one bothered to read them?
Back on topic: I just found out today that my brother and his teenage son have both been diagnosed with Covid. Ugh.
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What baffles me is why you believe no one bothered to read your post, @charis? You've received clarifications and very polite apologies. Why is that insufficient?
I didn't say the apology was insufficient - I appreciate it! Why/how are you baffled? I noted earlier that my point was behavioral (ie not political).
Um, because these words... "even after clarifying my point in a post that no one bothered to read" are in fact, quite baffling. How do you know that no one bothered to read them?
Back on topic: I just found out today that my brother and his teenage son have both been diagnosed with Covid. Ugh.
Sorry for what your family is going through.
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@Dicey sorry they’re going through that, hope they recover soon! My son’s daycare has shut down several times and it’s been a bit nuts. We were 90% sure he had covid a few weeks ago as his best friend did, but luckily avoided it. Cases are coming down here finally, but no plans to visit any family in person until the pandemic ends. We just FaceTime and it’s good enough. I realized today that I have never seen either of my nephews in person.
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My wife and I live in the Midwest. My sister, brother in law and niece (6) / nephew (9) live two hours away. My Mom and Dad winter in Florida. Every March, we all gather at my parents 3 bedroom home in Florida. Last year, we cancelled at the last minute due to Covid. This year, all 6 adults will have received their second Covid vaccine dose by the first week of March. We only saw everyone for outdoor socially distanced gatherings last summer.
It seems to me with everyone vaccinated, perhaps this years trip can happen. A lot of the time, we will just be outside at the pool, kayaking in the canal, or playing golf. But there will also be time we are inside, and social distancing difficult / not likely. We will be avoiding public places outside of the airport, grocery store, and maybe going to the beach for 1/2 day (should be able to stay socially distanced outdoors). My Mom will be crushed if this trip doesn’t happen, especially with it cancelled last year.
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With everyone vaccinated, you should definitely do your trip. There is zero risk at that point.
-W
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We one set of our parents came to visit yesterday. None of us have or have had any symptoms. We didn't feel good about it but for them I think it was part COVID denial and help for their mental health. Good to see them but... Apparently we are more determined to stay careful than they are.
We live in a red state so we're at work everyday - masked and distanced as much as possible - so our risk to ourselves and to our elders is not zero. No shots for any of us yet.
On a side note I ran around town to the grocery Friday night. Picked up pizza to go. The restaurants were PACKED. Looked like the parking lots were full so they weren't even running with reduced capacity dining rooms.
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With everyone vaccinated, you should definitely do your trip. There is zero risk at that point.
-W
That remains to be seen. Early reports are not that promising.
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This is not the first time something like this has happened.
Mom and her mother live in town. Family and I have been visiting them grandmother on the porch when weather allows it, but that's been sparse as of late. A few weeks ago Mom called and basically berated me for not letting grandmother see the kids more, with all the stereotypical "we're family, we would never hurt anyone, we take precautions (no they don't), etc." stuff. So I said fine, we'll go see her that weekend for 10 minutes tops, and everyone is masked the whole time. (this was 2 weeks ago).
Turns out Mom's sister was also there, and didn't have a mask at all (didn't even bring one!). Weather was freezing, so grandmother stayed inside and complained about being cold (can't blame her) whenever we opened the door. After 2 minutes of them basically causing our little kids much anguish by telling them to come in close for hugs and whatnot, DW and kids went outside to play in the yard. I made awkward small talk for 3-4 more minutes, grabbed the cookies and left.
Afterwards Mom called me and told me how embarrassed she was that her sister commented on "how cold we were to everyone." I said "that's your sister's fault for not knowing what basic precautions look like," and things went downhill from there.
Can't wait for the "even though your vaccinated we still have to social distance" argument we're going to have.
Basically, I'm surrounded by extended family who says "yes, we're taking precautions!" and in the same breath tell me how wonderful it was to have dinner with out-of-state friends who are traveling to Florida for a few weeks.
Sorry, but I just needed to vent about this.
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With everyone vaccinated, you should definitely do your trip. There is zero risk at that point.
-W
That remains to be seen. Early reports are not that promising.
"all five of the vaccines — from Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZeneca, Novavax and Johnson & Johnson — look extremely good. Of the roughly 75,000 people who have received one of the five in a research trial, not a single person has died from Covid, and only a few people appear to have been hospitalized. None have remained hospitalized 28 days after receiving a shot."
Not that promising? That's hilarious. How on earth would you come to that conclusion?
-W
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With everyone vaccinated, you should definitely do your trip. There is zero risk at that point.
-W
That remains to be seen. Early reports are not that promising.
"all five of the vaccines — from Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZeneca, Novavax and Johnson & Johnson — look extremely good. Of the roughly 75,000 people who have received one of the five in a research trial, not a single person has died from Covid, and only a few people appear to have been hospitalized. None have remained hospitalized 28 days after receiving a shot."
Not that promising? That's hilarious. How on earth would you come to that conclusion?
-W
You said, "There is zero risk at that point." I would state that is inaccurate. Vaccines aren't 100% effective. The kids aren't vaccinated. There is always some risk, so to say that it's not that promising is accurate. That said, with all the adults vaccinated, the risk is drastically reduced. And if a group of people can't get together after being vaccinated, then when can we?
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With everyone vaccinated, you should definitely do your trip. There is zero risk at that point.
-W
That remains to be seen. Early reports are not that promising.
"all five of the vaccines — from Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZeneca, Novavax and Johnson & Johnson — look extremely good. Of the roughly 75,000 people who have received one of the five in a research trial, not a single person has died from Covid, and only a few people appear to have been hospitalized. None have remained hospitalized 28 days after receiving a shot."
Not that promising? That's hilarious. How on earth would you come to that conclusion?
-W
You said, "There is zero risk at that point." I would state that is inaccurate. Vaccines aren't 100% effective. The kids aren't vaccinated. There is always some risk, so to say that it's not that promising is accurate. That said, with all the adults vaccinated, the risk is drastically reduced. And if a group of people can't get together after being vaccinated, then when can we?
And "being vaccinated" and "safe" means at least 2 weeks after the second vaccination. Will they recognize that?
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With everyone vaccinated, you should definitely do your trip. There is zero risk at that point.
-W
That remains to be seen. Early reports are not that promising.
"all five of the vaccines — from Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZeneca, Novavax and Johnson & Johnson — look extremely good. Of the roughly 75,000 people who have received one of the five in a research trial, not a single person has died from Covid, and only a few people appear to have been hospitalized. None have remained hospitalized 28 days after receiving a shot."
Not that promising? That's hilarious. How on earth would you come to that conclusion?
-W
You said, "There is zero risk at that point." I would state that is inaccurate. Vaccines aren't 100% effective. The kids aren't vaccinated. There is always some risk, so to say that it's not that promising is accurate. That said, with all the adults vaccinated, the risk is drastically reduced. And if a group of people can't get together after being vaccinated, then when can we?
Maybe not zero risk, but pretty close. And waltworks was responding to claim that early reports aren't promising, which is hardly the case.
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You are going to have to explain your "Early reports are not that promising" statement.
Early reports are *amazing*. You could not ask for better results than these.
The vaccines, so far, in trials, have all 100% prevented death and almost completely eliminated serious illness as well. You are literally at higher risk of being killed by a shark while swimming than dying of Covid once you're vaccinated, based on what we know right now.
-W
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what about the early reports of AstraZeneca being essentially ineffective at the South African variant of the virus in young people?
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/new-variant-in-south-africa-renders-astrazeneca-vaccine-ineffective-in-young-people (https://nationalpost.com/news/world/new-variant-in-south-africa-renders-astrazeneca-vaccine-ineffective-in-young-people)
i'm also less worried about contracting the virus myself, but of being a vector for its spread. According to our CDC briefing it's still largely unknown whether this can occur with Covid-19.
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I'm currently avoiding an uncle (who I didn't want to see anyway) and a cousin (who I wouldn't mind getting a drink with under normal circumstances) because he just flew back into the country. I know that, in theory, he and everyone else at the airport should have had a negative test in the previous 72 hours, but I'm supposed to get my second dose of the vaccine at work next week and I'm not jeopardizing that chance because if I don't get it then I'm on my own for getting it.
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what about the early reports of AstraZeneca being essentially ineffective at the South African variant of the virus in young people?
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/new-variant-in-south-africa-renders-astrazeneca-vaccine-ineffective-in-young-people (https://nationalpost.com/news/world/new-variant-in-south-africa-renders-astrazeneca-vaccine-ineffective-in-young-people)
i'm also less worried about contracting the virus myself, but of being a vector for its spread. According to our CDC briefing it's still largely unknown whether this can occur with Covid-19.
That is a study of whether or not the super-cheap option we have ready (which Africa needs because it's so poor... but also kinda doesn't need, because it's so young) prevents mild to moderate illness in young people. Which is really not what anyone's interested in anyway. If you read further, you'll see the UK health minister and others saying they still think it's broadly effective at preventing severe illness and death.
-W
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Basically, I'm surrounded by extended family who says "yes, we're taking precautions!" and in the same breath tell me how wonderful it was to have dinner with out-of-state friends who are traveling to Florida for a few weeks.
Sorry, but I just needed to vent about this.
Vent away! This is the place to do it.
Our visit revealed our relatives have been doing far more running around and socializing that we thought. They are a bigger risk to us than we are to them.
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I'm avoiding family. It's distressing to my parents, but I couldn't live with myself if they got covid and I was the last one to visit.
I've seen a spectrum of responses - from huddling indoors getting and wiping down their delivered groceries, to those going out for a walk and grocery shopping but not much else, to going out for dinner and hosting big children's birthday parties at home.
I'm disappointed at some who should know better, but are out at parties because YOLO. Or out there because MAGA. And maybe worst, out there because they see this as a problem for individuals, not as a collective action problem. :(
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...
Afterwards Mom called me and told me how embarrassed she was that her sister commented on "how cold we were to everyone." I said "that's your sister's fault for not knowing what basic precautions look like," and things went downhill from there.
Can't wait for the "even though your vaccinated we still have to social distance" argument we're going to have.
Basically, I'm surrounded by extended family who says "yes, we're taking precautions!" and in the same breath tell me how wonderful it was to have dinner with out-of-state friends who are traveling to Florida for a few weeks.
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With the exception of one of my sisters, my entire extended family has been living their life like nothing has changed since March because they believe it's nothing more than a cold or flu, and some even think it's a political hoax (yes, still.) I had to make a quick trip back home this summer for a family emergency and the screaming match between my mother and me about wearing masks confirmed for me that I will not be able to see them again for a very long time, certainly not until we are all vaccinated and it is safe to travel. That said, with the exception of my sister, none of them plan on getting the vaccine because some believe they don't need it because of the aforementioned reasons, and others believe that they will be microchipped and given the mark of the beast from the Book of Revelations in the bible, and there really isn't much reasoning I can do with that. My favorite part is the family members ranting on social media about the vaccine containing a chip to track their every move, from a smart phone that they voluntarily carry, that literally tracks their every move. I just can't.
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That said, with the exception of my sister, none of them plan on getting the vaccine because some believe they don't need it because of the aforementioned reasons, and others believe that they will be microchipped and given the mark of the beast from the Book of Revelations in the bible, and there really isn't much reasoning I can do with that. My favorite part is the family members ranting on social media about the vaccine containing a chip to track their every move, from a smart phone that they voluntarily carry, that literally tracks their every move. I just can't.
I feel your pain. Some might think this Book of Revelations and microchip thing is a joke. But there are true believers. Unfortunately.
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That said, with the exception of my sister, none of them plan on getting the vaccine because some believe they don't need it because of the aforementioned reasons, and others believe that they will be microchipped and given the mark of the beast from the Book of Revelations in the bible, and there really isn't much reasoning I can do with that. My favorite part is the family members ranting on social media about the vaccine containing a chip to track their every move, from a smart phone that they voluntarily carry, that literally tracks their every move. I just can't.
I feel your pain. Some might think this Book of Revelations and microchip thing is a joke. But there are true believers. Unfortunately.
Science: microchips to ID dogs and cats are under the skin* and relatively large. The needle for the vaccines is super thin and goes into muscle. Is there any way you can point that out to them and be believed? The two are not compatible.
*This works because the microchip is under the skin where the skin is super loose behind the neck (the scruff). I can't think of any place to easily microchip a human if we wanted to, our skin is snug all over. Implant in the abdominal cavity? Then there would probably be adhesions, which are painful.
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I, for one, cannot wait to be implanted with microchips, transition into cybernetic body parts, and ascend to the next stage of human evolution.
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I, for one, cannot wait to be implanted with microchips, transition into cybernetic body parts, and ascend to the next stage of human evolution.
As long as the cybernetic parts work better than the artificial knees and hips we currently get. ;-)
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That said, with the exception of my sister, none of them plan on getting the vaccine because some believe they don't need it because of the aforementioned reasons, and others believe that they will be microchipped and given the mark of the beast from the Book of Revelations in the bible, and there really isn't much reasoning I can do with that. My favorite part is the family members ranting on social media about the vaccine containing a chip to track their every move, from a smart phone that they voluntarily carry, that literally tracks their every move. I just can't.
I feel your pain. Some might think this Book of Revelations and microchip thing is a joke. But there are true believers. Unfortunately.
Science: microchips to ID dogs and cats are under the skin* and relatively large. The needle for the vaccines is super thin and goes into muscle. Is there any way you can point that out to them and be believed? The two are not compatible.
*This works because the microchip is under the skin where the skin is super loose behind the neck (the scruff). I can't think of any place to easily microchip a human if we wanted to, our skin is snug all over. Implant in the abdominal cavity? Then there would probably be adhesions, which are painful.
Actually, the "Microchip" (actually a passive RFID tag) that's implanted in dogs and cats are also used in a whole bunch of other organisms, including fish and (yes!) humans. The first known person to have a 'microchip' was a self-implant by a scientist; it functioned just a security card would, opening doors and such. Since then various, mostly RFID devices have been implanted into thousands of people with great success, most often in the hand (between the thumb and first finger), occasionally in the forearm.
A weakness is that the standard encapsulated RFID chips can only transmit a 16 digit number. Other 'higher density" RFIDs can hold more, but we are still talking a few thousand bits, which isn't enough to transcribe this single post. Useful for giving each implantee a unique identifier but useless for carrying actual data (that needs to be stored on a server somewhere). Larger capacity (e.g. gigabites) implantable 'microchips' are, to the best of my knowledge, still theoretical. The big challenge is power; RFID chips are completely passive and need no battery.
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There are already places that hand out a vaccin pass to people who are vaccinated and have proven antibodies to COVID-19. I hope that such a pass will give that vaccinated more access to things like crossing borders without a quaranteen period.
And as the virus will keep mutating and spreading, the anti-vaxers will be at high risk of getting sick. I expect to see big outbreaks in regions with anti-vaxers. While we others can hopefully live a bit more like normal, if life ever becomes as normal as before that is...
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That said, with the exception of my sister, none of them plan on getting the vaccine because some believe they don't need it because of the aforementioned reasons, and others believe that they will be microchipped and given the mark of the beast from the Book of Revelations in the bible, and there really isn't much reasoning I can do with that. My favorite part is the family members ranting on social media about the vaccine containing a chip to track their every move, from a smart phone that they voluntarily carry, that literally tracks their every move. I just can't.
I feel your pain. Some might think this Book of Revelations and microchip thing is a joke. But there are true believers. Unfortunately.
Science: microchips to ID dogs and cats are under the skin* and relatively large. The needle for the vaccines is super thin and goes into muscle. Is there any way you can point that out to them and be believed? The two are not compatible.
*This works because the microchip is under the skin where the skin is super loose behind the neck (the scruff). I can't think of any place to easily microchip a human if we wanted to, our skin is snug all over. Implant in the abdominal cavity? Then there would probably be adhesions, which are painful.
Actually, the "Microchip" (actually a passive RFID tag) that's implanted in dogs and cats are also used in a whole bunch of other organisms, including fish and (yes!) humans. The first known person to have a 'microchip' was a self-implant by a scientist; it functioned just a security card would, opening doors and such. Since then various, mostly RFID devices have been implanted into thousands of people with great success, most often in the hand (between the thumb and first finger), occasionally in the forearm.
A weakness is that the standard encapsulated RFID chips can only transmit a 16 digit number. Other 'higher density" RFIDs can hold more, but we are still talking a few thousand bits, which isn't enough to transcribe this single post. Useful for giving each implantee a unique identifier but useless for carrying actual data (that needs to be stored on a server somewhere). Larger capacity (e.g. gigabites) implantable 'microchips' are, to the best of my knowledge, still theoretical. The big challenge is power; RFID chips are completely passive and need no battery.
I knew about fish, the chips can be used to count how many fish are using a fish ladder to bypass a dam. I didn't know they had been implanted in humans. And I read too much fiction, I think of that RFID chip giving access to top security places and then my mind goes to anesthesia and chip extraction so someone else can gain access and I might as well start plotting a Tom Clancy novel. ;-)
However, the point was that it is kind of obvious if you have had a chip inserted. It can't be done through a very narrow needle into a big muscle. I am not sure telling @goldensam's relatives about RFID chips in the hand would allay their fears about a chip in the vaccine though. ;-)
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The relative prob can invent a fictional chip to worry about that can't be seen, felt, or otherwise detected. Remember the mark of the beast part. Magical thinking.
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The relative prob can invent a fictional chip to worry about that can't be seen, felt, or otherwise detected. Remember the mark of the beast part. Magical thinking.
Magical thinking indeed.
This pandemic is going to fuel a lot of research into how people "think" because there sure has been a lot of weird "thinking" surfacing.
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Yes, its been an eye opening experience watching and listening to people during COVID.
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Yes, its been an eye opening experience watching and listening to people during COVID.
I will send you to spend a week with my brother and my father in law. They have been spewing collecting this stuff for decades!
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Got my second dose of the vaccine on Sunday. Felt like I got hit by a truck yesterday afternoon. Getting on a plane the first week of March to go and see my daughter in Florida. My wife gets her second dose in 10 days, while my Mom gets her second dose in 3 more weeks. We will then start seeing family indoors once again.
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Got my second dose of the vaccine on Sunday. Felt like I got hit by a truck yesterday afternoon. Getting on a plane the first week of March to go and see my daughter in Florida. My wife gets her second dose in 10 days, while my Mom gets her second dose in 3 more weeks. We will then start seeing family indoors once again.
It takes 2 weeks for the second vaccination to provide peak immunity. Don't go hanging indoors with folks right away...
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That said, with the exception of my sister, none of them plan on getting the vaccine because some believe they don't need it because of the aforementioned reasons, and others believe that they will be microchipped and given the mark of the beast from the Book of Revelations in the bible, and there really isn't much reasoning I can do with that. My favorite part is the family members ranting on social media about the vaccine containing a chip to track their every move, from a smart phone that they voluntarily carry, that literally tracks their every move. I just can't.
I feel your pain. Some might think this Book of Revelations and microchip thing is a joke. But there are true believers. Unfortunately.
Science: microchips to ID dogs and cats are under the skin* and relatively large. The needle for the vaccines is super thin and goes into muscle. Is there any way you can point that out to them and be believed? The two are not compatible.
*This works because the microchip is under the skin where the skin is super loose behind the neck (the scruff). I can't think of any place to easily microchip a human if we wanted to, our skin is snug all over. Implant in the abdominal cavity? Then there would probably be adhesions, which are painful.
Unfortunately, the only "news source" my grandparents trust at this point is YouTube. I wish I was joking. Most of the family is down that same rabbit hole.
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Going to be interesting (in a bad way) over the next few weeks. My grandmother just passed away - at least partially due to COVID - and family is ready to hold a few gatherings. I plan to pay my respects as much as possible, but will not gather indoors with a sizeable group of unmasked family members, some of whom are from out of state (or even country, depending on who shows up), which is what I anticipate happening.
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Going to be interesting (in a bad way) over the next few weeks. My grandmother just passed away - at least partially due to COVID - and family is ready to hold a few gatherings. I plan to pay my respects as much as possible, but will not gather indoors with a sizeable group of unmasked family members, some of whom are from out of state (or even country, depending on who shows up), which is what I anticipate happening.
I'm so sorry for your loss. I went through the same in the early days of the pandemic. We decided to have a funeral service in her church, but with only a handful of people (10) in a massive building. We didn't invite anyone elderly and relatives with Covid watched online. It was extremely sad and weird to just go home after we buried her, but I'm glad we were able to prevent further spread of Covid in my family. They were infected before we even knew Covid had entered our country so at that point everyone was still extremely scared of being infected with it. Masks were not a thing yet.
A small touch that I really appreciated at that point was that the funeral home employees wore disposable latex gloves, but they were matte and black so they really didn't look out of place. Instead of giving us a handshake to offer their condolences, they folded their hands in front of their chest in a praying gesture and made a small bow. I'm sure by now they all have very professional looking masks. I really appreciated that they took their own and our health seriously, but didn't treat my relative's body as if it was toxic waste or something. They had really thought about how they could still be as respectful as possible. I hope your family will find a way to honour your grandmother without putting anyone in danger. I'm sure the last thing your grandmother would have wanted was more of her loved ones getting seriously ill or dying.
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The relative prob can invent a fictional chip to worry about that can't be seen, felt, or otherwise detected. Remember the mark of the beast part. Magical thinking.
Magical thinking indeed.
This pandemic is going to fuel a lot of research into how people "think" because there sure has been a lot of weird "thinking" surfacing.
Magical thinking it is. These same relatives are often talking about "the flowering of the fig tree" and the "mark of the beast". Logic or critical thinking need not apply. One can try to provide an example, and to set boundaries, but also to love them as they are.
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Not to pile on, but you wonder how many times they can see that they are wrong and yet continue down the same road. I have relatives who traded in all their money for coins in 1999, filled their basement up with ground wheat, and were preparing for the end of the world.
Now, 20 years later they are doing much of the same stuff previously said in this thread(its just a cold, no mask, etc...).
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Yes, its been an eye opening experience watching and listening to people during COVID.
I will send you to spend a week with my brother and my father in law. They have been spewing collecting this stuff for decades!
Uh, no thanks... ;)
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Whew! I wish someone could reach people like this and make them see reason. Help them make safe, efficient long term choices and then stay the course. Unfortunately there are other people who know exactly how to take advantage of these impressionable people and sustain their magical thinking (religion, politics, coins, etc).
COVID, recent politics and people like this has helped put history in perspective for DW and I. It is easy to see how everything can go off the rails in short order and take a long time to recover.
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isn't it amazing how some can scoff at the danger of COVID (or climate change, or...fill in the blank...) despite the crushing weight of evidence...
...but believe "THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN!!!" because the one man who has the most to gain by people believing it says so?
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isn't it amazing how some can scoff at the danger of COVID (or climate change, or...fill in the blank...) despite the crushing weight of evidence...
...but believe "THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN!!!" because the one man who has the most to gain by people believing it says so?
Believing the election was stolen is convenient if you don't want the other side to have won. Believing all the evidence that COVID is serious means that you have to do inconvenient things like wear a mask and stop partying for a while.
This isn't surprising at all. It's the result of the weakness of a group of people who value personal convenience above all else.
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isn't it amazing how some can scoff at the danger of COVID (or climate change, or...fill in the blank...) despite the crushing weight of evidence...
...but believe "THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN!!!" because the one man who has the most to gain by people believing it says so?
it's almost like there are a bunch of gullible people out there that will believe anything from conmen.
Almost like a religion, a cult.
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What sets off internal warning bells for some people, seems to make other people think the confidence man really likes and respects them.
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isn't it amazing how some can scoff at the danger of COVID (or climate change, or...fill in the blank...) despite the crushing weight of evidence...
...but believe "THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN!!!" because the one man who has the most to gain by people believing it says so?
Believing the election was stolen is convenient if you don't want the other side to have won. Believing all the evidence that COVID is serious means that you have to do inconvenient things like wear a mask and stop partying for a while.
This isn't surprising at all. It's the result of the weakness of a group of people who value personal convenience above all else.
Not only that. Partisanship is a huge part of people's personal identity in a lot of countries.
If a conspiracy comes from "their side", then it's evidence. If it comes from the other side, it's a conspiracy.
If I'm a right ring Trump supporter, doubting the message that masks are unnecessary or that the election was stolen, doesn't just mean utilizing my common sense and critical thinking, it means challenging myself on my own identity of who I am. Which is a far more powerful force than common sense.