Author Topic: Are you rich? WaPo tool  (Read 7650 times)

AMandM

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Are you rich? WaPo tool
« on: January 05, 2024, 07:56:06 AM »
Fun interactive tool to see how your net worth and its composition compare to the US in general or your age/education cohort:
https://wapo.st/3TNYBze

Pretty much what I would have guessed for our household: way above national median net worth, below median income and net worth for our age and education. That's what you get when a couple with four advanced degrees between them decides to live frugally on one non-tech income!

ixtap

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2024, 07:58:01 AM »
That linked to an opinion piece titled "I Killed a Deer in the Bathroom."

neo von retorch

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« Last Edit: January 06, 2024, 05:19:08 AM by neo von retorch »

Morning Glory

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2024, 08:32:02 AM »
That linked to an opinion piece titled "I Killed a Deer in the Bathroom."

The deer wasn't even in the bathroom,  he shot it through the window with a rifle.  The headline makes it sound a lot more impressive than it was....and that was the end of my "free article " limit.

Wintergreen78

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2024, 08:40:06 AM »
That linked to an opinion piece titled "I Killed a Deer in the Bathroom."

The deer wasn't even in the bathroom,  he shot it through the window with a rifle.  The headline makes it sound a lot more impressive than it was....and that was the end of my "free article " limit.

I think there was a Jeff Foxworthy joke about shooting deer from inside your house.

ixtap

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2024, 08:46:13 AM »
That linked to an opinion piece titled "I Killed a Deer in the Bathroom."

The deer wasn't even in the bathroom,  he shot it through the window with a rifle.  The headline makes it sound a lot more impressive than it was....and that was the end of my "free article " limit.

I didn't read it, but it still took my free article...

Verdure

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2024, 09:33:13 AM »
If you share an email address you can get more free articles, and since it is early in the month, I was not out. The link @neo von retorch shared was interesting. It didn’t asked my net worth, only if I felt I was on track for retirement savings. It told me by most measures we are middle class, specifically upper middle class, and that we earn about twice as much as our neighbors.

I suspect the data on earnings is skewed bc I think our zip code is not very homogeneous. We live in a middle class neighborhood of single family homes, but also in the zip code are a bunch of apartments including Section 8 housing. So I think there is a lot of disparity, and we probably don’t earn twice as much as our immediate neighbors but our neighborhood obviously earns dramatically more per household than those in Section 8 housing. We probably do earn on the high end even for our neighborhood, bc in mustachian style, we bought a house that suits our needs 15 years ago and haven’t ever upgraded.

This was interesting bc I definitely don’t feel upper middle class, but MrV and I both work in affluent suburbs where the people we provide services for make significantly more than we do. So this is a reminder that those people actually aren’t middle class, even though they think they are. And significantly, as far as retirement savings being on track, I said yes, but it said only 46% of people at our income level feel that way. So I don’t feel upper middle class bc we are evidently spending far less than most people at our income level. Which, of course we are, but those people probably also don’t feel upper middle class bc they are stressed about their lack of savings.

neo von retorch

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2024, 09:40:12 AM »
If you share an email address you can get more free articles, and since it is early in the month, I was not out. The link @neo von retorch shared was interesting. It didn’t asked my net worth, only if I felt I was on track for retirement savings. It told me by most measures we are middle class, specifically upper middle class, and that we earn about twice as much as our neighbors.

Ah you're right, it's this one which is from today: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/interactive/2024/are-you-rich-american-wealth-net-worth/

(I was able to view both by right-clicking and opening in a new private window. It still tries to get me to pay/subscribe but I was able to dismiss that and scroll through.)
« Last Edit: January 05, 2024, 09:44:12 AM by neo von retorch »

Jack0Life

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2024, 09:40:26 AM »
Didn't read the free article but killing a deer anywhere is impressive.

wenchsenior

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2024, 11:57:15 AM »
Can't quite crack that top 10%... Annoying.

RWD

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2024, 01:07:41 PM »
Can't quite crack that top 10%... Annoying.
Gotta be a multi-millionaire for that, wow.

RWD

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2024, 01:14:28 PM »
I found the asset percentages by wealth group graph fascinating. The bottom 30 percentile has roughly half tied up in vehicles!
« Last Edit: January 05, 2024, 01:19:22 PM by RWD »

Blackeagle

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2024, 01:21:48 PM »
I found the asset percentages by wealth group graph fascinating. The bottom 30 percentile has roughly half their net worth tied up in vehicles!

Yeah, I found that graph pretty interesting also.  Vehicles for the bottom 30% of households, houses for the middle 50%, and various forms of investment (labeled as Retirement, Investments, and Other assets) for the top 20%.

wenchsenior

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2024, 01:32:20 PM »
Can't quite crack that top 10%... Annoying.
Gotta be a multi-millionaire for that, wow.

Yeah, I don't think we are gonna make it to 2 million, but maybe the next few years will be great? :crosses fingers:

Miss Piggy

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2024, 01:44:22 PM »
I was not able to get past the paywall using the link (even opening in incognito window), so I opened a whole new incognito window and did a search for the article. That worked for me...in case it helps others. I'm apparently rich, despite never killing a deer in my bathroom. #goals

Telecaster

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2024, 01:45:37 PM »
That linked to an opinion piece titled "I Killed a Deer in the Bathroom."

In my opinion that sounds...kind of awesome.   

Telecaster

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2024, 01:49:08 PM »
Here's a gift link.  Should work for two weeks:

https://wapo.st/3RM9i2G

ScreamingHeadGuy

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2024, 09:49:29 PM »
Apparently  my (FIRE’d) income is too low to be middle class, even.  Never was asked about my assets.

Garbage in, garbage out interactive. 

Chris Pascale

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2024, 11:34:35 PM »
I am rich in daughters.

2sk22

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2024, 04:11:28 AM »
Apparently  my (FIRE’d) income is too low to be middle class, even.  Never was asked about my assets.

Garbage in, garbage out interactive.

I agree - this tool was not very useful.

Not just here, but I see a conflation of salary with wealth in many articles. However, since most people have so little in the way of savings that salary becomes a measure of wealth.

RWD

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2024, 07:23:02 AM »
If it is only asking for your salary you probably clicked the wrong link.

AMandM

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2024, 11:20:26 AM »
OP here. Many apologies for the bad link. Here's the right one and it should not be paywalled. It's the one neo linked to.


AMandM

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2024, 11:22:03 AM »
Not just here, but I see a conflation of salary with wealth in many articles. However, since most people have so little in the way of savings that salary becomes a measure of wealth.

I think you're looking at one of the wrong links (my bad, sorry). The one I intended to link to starts with the words "Being rich isn’t about the money you make — it’s about the money you already have."

dandarc

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2024, 11:36:44 AM »
From towards the end.

"You hold a greater portion of your assets in retirement savings and a smaller portion in cash, your home, investments and other assets than the average household with similar levels of wealth."

That's pretty much how we got to this point. Granted I lump "retirement savings" in with "investments" in my own mind.

Catbert

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2024, 11:38:18 AM »
I found the asset percentages by wealth group graph fascinating. The bottom 30 percentile has roughly half tied up in vehicles!

I thought that was the most interesting part.  The article made the point that poor people's wealth is tied up in depreciating assets (cars) while the more wealthy you are the more of your wealth grows.

My net worth is in the top 3%.  I should have retired 10 years earlier when I had an early out option. 

Edited to add:  Oops.  I tried and failed to copy the chart in comment #11.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2024, 11:40:03 AM by Catbert »

ca-rn

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2024, 01:32:30 PM »
Thank you for the link!

My net worth gets a big boost from home value which makes me look kinda RICH, ha! 

I don't like to include my home b/c I need a place to live (don't plan to move/sell even if I go nearly full nomad) when factoring FIRE.   I just like to consider actual cash/investments/retirement accounts.

Sad that cars, depreciating assets, are considered in one's net worth... I guess b/c it can be sold? 

FIREin2018

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2024, 01:51:14 PM »
Didn't read the free article but killing a deer anywhere is impressive.
Even more impressive if you didn't use a gun.

In my case, a car.
That was a $4000 deer. :(
(Fortunately, insurance paid for it. $250 deducible. And since it was under comprehensive, no insurance increase)

FIREin2018

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2024, 01:54:24 PM »
I am rich in daughters.
They cute?
pics? :)

mistymoney

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2024, 01:57:58 PM »
cannot access without registering. ant cliff notes?

spartana

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2024, 02:40:18 PM »
I couldn't access the link(s) either but looking at the chart posted above I'm guessing my total NW, which includes my home equity on a paid off house, would put me in the upper middle class of wealth. My FIRE income is a whole different thing. Apparently I'm a poor starving street urchin who lives in a cardboard box under the freeway over pass ;-). Or more likely in some very low income category. 

I actually didn't find the car as the higher NW of lower income peo0le surprising. Cars are relatively inexpensive compared to homes, even new cars, and  easy to finance so many lower income people can qualify. it's often comes down to a choice between buying a car or saving for the future for lower income people, and most need a car for work, it's a trade-off they have to make.

TwoCommas

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2024, 09:20:24 AM »
OP here. Many apologies for the bad link. Here's the right one and it should not be paywalled. It's the one neo linked to.

For those missing it, this link works.

Apples

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2024, 09:39:18 AM »
I agree with Spartana.  The majority of low-net-worth households having their NW in cars makes sense - in a lot of places, vehicles are necessary transportation.  I live in a rural area, and it's nearly impossible to survive on your own without cars.  There's a bus that you can make appointments to get picked up by, but it's mostly for medical appointments and if you're lucky maybe groceries.  So low income people rent a place to live and buy a car.  I think higher net worth households mostly have more expensive cars, but also more money in other places.  The low income people just don't have the other money.

ixtap

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2024, 10:24:58 AM »
I agree with Spartana.  The majority of low-net-worth households having their NW in cars makes sense - in a lot of places, vehicles are necessary transportation.  I live in a rural area, and it's nearly impossible to survive on your own without cars.  There's a bus that you can make appointments to get picked up by, but it's mostly for medical appointments and if you're lucky maybe groceries.  So low income people rent a place to live and buy a car.  I think higher net worth households mostly have more expensive cars, but also more money in other places.  The low income people just don't have the other money.

All of our nieces and nephews who have bought cars have newer and bigger ones than us. One also owns a tiny house that she believes is worth more than her vehicle, but they are probably pretty equal.

spartana

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2024, 10:59:13 AM »
I agree with Spartana.  The majority of low-net-worth households having their NW in cars makes sense - in a lot of places, vehicles are necessary transportation.  I live in a rural area, and it's nearly impossible to survive on your own without cars.  There's a bus that you can make appointments to get picked up by, but it's mostly for medical appointments and if you're lucky maybe groceries.  So low income people rent a place to live and buy a car.  I think higher net worth households mostly have more expensive cars, but also more money in other places.  The low income people just don't have the other money.

All of our nieces and nephews who have bought cars have newer and bigger ones than us. One also owns a tiny house that she believes is worth more than her vehicle, but they are probably pretty equal.
Its pretty easy to upgrade to a newer nicer vehicle when payments (rather than actual cost) is "only $100/month or less. So lots of low income people, who may commute many miles a day, buy into that since its more valuable to them to have a reliable new car then an extra $50 or $100 to invest. And it probably feel better too to have a nice car that doesn't make you feel poor and will last awhile.

Tigerpine

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2024, 02:39:38 PM »
FWIW, $1.9M is the cutoff for being in the top 10% in terms of net worth, based on the article.

Morning Glory

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2024, 02:54:44 PM »
I had actually forgotten that people count vehicles as part of net worth.  I agree that the lack of reliable public transportation inhibits social mobility and ability to save in the US.

I tried the calculator with both my current household income and my peak income from when I was working and both times it said my net worth is high compared to other people with the same income.  It also said I have comparably more assets in investments and retirement accounts and less in cash and real estate than people with the same net worth which was not surprising to me.

rantk81

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2024, 06:18:10 AM »
I had actually forgotten that people count vehicles as part of net worth.

In my personal net-worth balance sheet, I don't count my vehicle as an asset (even though it is very new).  I do, however, count the car loan as a liability on the balance sheet.  (I only have the loan because the interest rate is a few percentage points lower than what I can earn on short term T-Bills.)

wenchsenior

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2024, 06:36:26 AM »
I had actually forgotten that people count vehicles as part of net worth.

In my personal net-worth balance sheet, I don't count my vehicle as an asset (even though it is very new).  I do, however, count the car loan as a liability on the balance sheet.  (I only have the loan because the interest rate is a few percentage points lower than what I can earn on short term T-Bills.)

I do the same.

neophyte

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2024, 07:24:17 AM »
The tool told me about what I was expecting: I
high net worth for my income. But not high enough to really be an outlier.

I quite enjoyed the deer article though. My partner came into the room to find me giggling over it.

jinga nation

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2024, 07:52:58 AM »
Huh. So my income is outside the "middle class range" for my zipcode, I have retirement savings on track, have 3 months of emergency funds.
WaPo says I'm not middle class. LOL
Maybe it's time to quit the rat race earlier than planned...

Turtle

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2024, 09:58:45 AM »
From towards the end.

"You hold a greater portion of your assets in retirement savings and a smaller portion in cash, your home, investments and other assets than the average household with similar levels of wealth."

That's pretty much how we got to this point. Granted I lump "retirement savings" in with "investments" in my own mind.

Same here. 

Huh. So my income is outside the "middle class range" for my zipcode, I have retirement savings on track, have 3 months of emergency funds.
WaPo says I'm not middle class. LOL
Maybe it's time to quit the rat race earlier than planned...

Also same here.  I feel it is more a factor of how the middle class has eroded over my lifetime than that I truly make upper middle class income.  My salary has barely kept pace with inflation, but lots of folks in America haven't kept pace at all.

 
« Last Edit: January 08, 2024, 10:07:56 AM by Turtle »

Turtle

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2024, 10:17:06 AM »
I found the asset percentages by wealth group graph fascinating. The bottom 30 percentile has roughly half tied up in vehicles!

Thanks for grabbing that screenshot.  Given that they say the top 1% starts at 62 million net worth, I'd be interested to have them break that top 10 % down more.  It's a very steep slope.  Per the graph, the average "other" asset value looks like 30-35%, compared with 0 for me.  For folks who are leveraging rental income for a portion of their portfolio, that makes sense, but given how many of us have 0, some folks must have a really high percentage either tied up in real estate or in small business. 


Log

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2024, 11:14:37 AM »
I did the income by zip code link first and had some fun insights: apparently I live in one of the lowest income zip codes in San Francisco! I live in a very nice neighborhood, but didn't realize I'm right up in the corner of my zip code which stretches down into a lower income area, while the rest of what's considered my "neighborhood" is just over the boundary of the next zip code over. I'm still below median for the zip code, despite it being closer to the bottom for the area.

As far as their three metrics for determining if an income is "middle class," I qualify for two out of three: my income is close enough to median, but too close to the poverty line. Only half of people in my income group have a three-month emergency fund, and only 22% of people in my income group feel on track to retirement, so that's where I become a privileged bougie person.

Then checking the correct link on net worth, the fact that the lowest age bracket is "34 and under" makes for a broad comparison. My net worth is lower than 87.5% of households, and lower than 70% of "households like yours," (under 35, college degree, no partner).

Of course, my distribution of assets looks very different from any of the wealth brackets, because I have 0% vehicle, 0% primary residence, and 30% "other assets" (musical instruments).

Increasing my income is a primary goal for this year. Regardless of what happens in my career, I feel like I'm well equipped to win the money game in life.

ixtap

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2024, 11:39:24 AM »
I did the income by zip code link first and had some fun insights: apparently I live in one of the lowest income zip codes in San Francisco! I live in a very nice neighborhood, but didn't realize I'm right up in the corner of my zip code which stretches down into a lower income area, while the rest of what's considered my "neighborhood" is just over the boundary of the next zip code over. I'm still below median for the zip code, despite it being closer to the bottom for the area.



It said our zip code was a low income area for the next city over. Well sure, if any of that city is technically in our zip code, the residents are mostly farm laborers. But between us and the post office is mostly waterfront property...

spartana

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2024, 03:59:40 PM »
I did the income by zip code link first and had some fun insights: apparently I live in one of the lowest income zip codes in San Francisco! I live in a very nice neighborhood, but didn't realize I'm right up in the corner of my zip code which stretches down into a lower income area, while the rest of what's considered my "neighborhood" is just over the boundary of the next zip code over. I'm still below median for the zip code, despite it being closer to the bottom for the area.



It said our zip code was a low income area for the next city over. Well sure, if any of that city is technically in our zip code, the residents are mostly farm laborers. But between us and the post office is mostly waterfront property...
My former zip code in "The O.C." is full of high income people and I wasn't one of them. I am apparently high NW very low income for that area. When I put the same numbers into my new zip code, a more working class resort place, I was still very low income but more compatible to the permanent full-time residents. That didn't include wealthy part time residents with second homes.

iris lily

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #45 on: January 08, 2024, 07:33:43 PM »
Can't quite crack that top 10%... Annoying.

Try this one below. It is most inclusive chart I’ve ever seen. Usually we are hovering somewhere around the 5% mark, sometimes make it into the 5%, sometimes outside of it.

In this case, we were in the upper 2%, but I don’t really believe it since again. I’ve been looking at these asset charts for years and this is not the normal one.


https://www.kiplinger.com/personal-finance/605075/are-you-rich


cannotWAIT

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #46 on: January 08, 2024, 07:59:54 PM »
Can't quite crack that top 10%... Annoying.

Try this one below. It is most inclusive chart I’ve ever seen. Usually we are hovering somewhere around the 5% mark, sometimes make it into the 5%, sometimes outside of it.

In this case, we were in the upper 2%, but I don’t really believe it since again. I’ve been looking at these asset charts for years and this is not the normal one.


https://www.kiplinger.com/personal-finance/605075/are-you-rich

Extremely dubious of these numbers. It would put me in the top 5% (if you include my dented Subaru) and there is just no way. The WaPo percentiles are the ones I usually see.

iris lily

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2024, 08:44:29 AM »
Can't quite crack that top 10%... Annoying.

Try this one below. It is most inclusive chart I’ve ever seen. Usually we are hovering somewhere around the 5% mark, sometimes make it into the 5%, sometimes outside of it.

In this case, we were in the upper 2%, but I don’t really believe it since again. I’ve been looking at these asset charts for years and this is not the normal one.


https://www.kiplinger.com/personal-finance/605075/are-you-rich

Extremely dubious of these numbers. It would put me in the top 5% (if you include my dented Subaru) and there is just no way. The WaPo percentiles are the ones I usually see.

Yes, agreed. I finally accessed the WashPost article and it uses the asset and income data I usually see. We are outside of the top 5% but just barely. We have low income but high net worth for households like ours, but I under report our income because I do not know how much is our income from investments, that is all re-invested.

wenchsenior

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #48 on: January 09, 2024, 04:00:22 PM »
Can't quite crack that top 10%... Annoying.

Try this one below. It is most inclusive chart I’ve ever seen. Usually we are hovering somewhere around the 5% mark, sometimes make it into the 5%, sometimes outside of it.

In this case, we were in the upper 2%, but I don’t really believe it since again. I’ve been looking at these asset charts for years and this is not the normal one.


https://www.kiplinger.com/personal-finance/605075/are-you-rich

Extremely dubious of these numbers. It would put me in the top 5% (if you include my dented Subaru) and there is just no way. The WaPo percentiles are the ones I usually see.

Yes, agreed. I finally accessed the WashPost article and it uses the asset and income data I usually see. We are outside of the top 5% but just barely. We have low income but high net worth for households like ours, but I under report our income because I do not know how much is our income from investments, that is all re-invested.

But it's more fun to use the Kiplinger data :)  TOP 5% BAYBEE!

iris lily

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Re: Are you rich? WaPo tool
« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2024, 05:44:00 PM »
I had actually forgotten that people count vehicles as part of net worth.  I agree that the lack of reliable public transportation inhibits social mobility and ability to save in the US.

I tried the calculator with both my current household income and my peak income from when I was working and both times it said my net worth is high compared to other people with the same income.  It also said I have comparably more assets in investments and retirement accounts and less in cash and real estate than people with the same net worth which was not surprising to me.

Why wouldn’t you include your vehicles in your asset sheet? We have many vehicles and each year when we figure our net worth, we look up the book value of each.