Are we getting taken for a ride by WestchesterFrugal?

[brandino29]

I'm really having trouble figuring out what's going on in the WestchesterFrugal case study.  After the first couple dozen posts I started to feel that she (I never saw a gender come up or a mention of anything other than 'spouse' but I've gotten the impression it's a female) was just trolling to stir up the natives, but it's continued long enough with enough effort on her part, and enough consistency in her story, to make me doubt the trolling. 

So that brings me to my next question -- why the hell is she here?  WF claims to have spent 4 months reading MMM before posting yet it seems the overwhelming theme of the blog has completely gone over her head (talk about poor reading comprehension!).  MMM himself has repeatedly said that this is not a personal finance blog but a lifestyle blog, and the vast majority of forum posters are very much into not only getting their financial house in order but reducing their consumption---getting out of the consumerism trap.

Obviously WF knows her finances and knows what needs to be cut if they truly want to change their lifestyle rather than 'dick around the edges' as another poster mentioned.  Which makes me think that WF's primary motivation is working through internal conflict about their current consumerism lifestyle, feeling guilty about leading an Exploding Volcano of Wastefulness life but loving it.

I also lean toward what several posters have suggested --- WF is looking for justification and someone to say what she's doing is all right but she hasn't found any of that from this group, which should never have been expected in the first place with an expense category like that, yet she continues fiercely defending all of her expenditures and lifestyle choices, with a good bit of snarky condescension to boot.

Which leads me back to wondering if it is an elaborate trolling effort by someone with way too much time on their hands.

[Cassie]

The whole thread is very puzzling. I started reading the first day & have to admit I got hooked & have followed it daily. I think the poster is female.  If she is looking for affirmation that she is doing the right thing she is definitely in the wrong place. I also agree that MMM is more then about $-I and many others care about the footprint we leave on our planet. Also to be wise enough to realize that $ does not bring you happiness by itself.  When I was young I always thought enough $ or things would do it but have learned that the opposite is true. Frequently too many things is a trap . Having lots of $ is a wonderful thing if you choose  to do something good with it.  She seems to ask for advice-shoots it down and then gets a very condescending attitude as  if she is better then most of the posters.  Basically she is not a very nice person/shallow, etc. No clue if she is just jerking us around or in fact she is struggling with wanting change.

[windawake]

I appreciate that you started this thread. I've also been following WF's case study and have commented a few times. I tried to be helpful but as it went on I couldn't help but get a little sassy in response to some of her more ridiculous comments (in what I believe to be the MMM tradition). I can't understand the attitude as well as the claim that she's read everything on the blog. If so, she should know that she would definitely be getting called out hard. Especially after all the justification.

The post that rattled me most was when she said it'd be easier to just increase income by $50k instead of cutting $50k from their ridiculous $700k/year budget. The whole reason she's supposedly here is to make cuts!

[thepokercab]

Personally, i sort of think we're being taken for a ride.  The whole thread is basically a monument to rampant consumerism and resistance to change.  Its almost as if she setting herself up as the MMM doppelganger.  She's literally taken the opposite position on just about everything,

- defending owning too much home, as opposed to downsizing. 
- Keeping up with the Joneses' as opposed to not, 
- engaging in Ivy League syndrome, as opposed to not
- talking about increase income- as opposed to increasing savings. 
- Paying someone to do all of your lawn care as opposed to doing it yourself.

The list goes on and on.  Its not unusual to see someone defend a certain part of their spending in their case study, but she's taken it to a whole other level. 

Its hard to gauge whether its one big farce.  Then again, we just had a thread about how much we doubt anyone would lie about their frugality, so i'm having an equally hard time wondering why this poster would be trolling to this extent.  Last I looked she had over 100 posts.

Whatever...

*edited for grammar

[dragoncar]

Just read the first post (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/reader-case-study-can-we-have-it-all-but-still-retire-early/ for the curious).

I can't believe any troll would put that much work into it.  Seems more like someone with a lot of cognitive dissonance.

[Otsog]

Even without buying into the core theme of Mustachianism there is still a plethora of valuable information on this blog/forums. 

I don't think it is just her, a lot of people here probably take a more hybrid approach applying MMM concepts before fully buying in philosophically.  Her situation is just an outlier that is attracting more attention.

Occam's razor.  A rich person is working on a plan of cutting back in order to retire in 10 years.  Fin.

[arebelspy]

I appreciate that someone with a higher income and spending may have different priorities and values, and that's okay.

But the attitude he/she has displayed has made the thread get more ridiculous the longer it goes on.

At this point, is it adding to, or subtracting from, the forums?

/shrug

Something to think about.

[Bethersonton]

So glad someone started this thread; I kept thinking about doing it myself. I hope it gets people to stop responding on the other thread (though it is likely WF will stop by here at some point and call US all trolls, which makes no sense).

I vote troll in the truest sense of the word, as in: came here to rile people up. It has worked wonders and I imagine WF is reporting back to some troll forum to show all the trouble he/she is causing.

Read through the thread: absolutely NOTHING has been accomplished in 8 pages and counting. It is just everyone in circles.

Happy weekend to all of you!

[tomsang]

Most Definately a troll!  I got suckered into the fray with two posts.  I think it is distracting in that I keep watching the train wreck and you see people putting energy into posts.  I am not sure if the entertainment value outweighs the train wreck.

[rocklebock]

The trainwreckiness keeps sucking me in.

I haven't been on the forums that long, but haven't people said that there's a recurring pattern where someone claiming to be a high income/high spending individual will start humble-bragging on the forum (ostensibly asking for help), and then getting super defensive? To the point where it appears they're a) trolling; b) pretending to be someone they aren't; or c) seeking validation and lashing out when they don't get it. Or some combination of the three.

I'm leaning towards troll, only because someone with his/her career, family situation, and social status shouldn't have so much free time to post on internet forums.

[rubybeth]

I keep going back to the thread multiple times a day, because it's kind of a train wreck and I can't look away. It seems WF doesn't 'get' it and doesn't want any of the advice given, or at least doesn't acknowledge any of the better advice. I don't really understand why they began posting to begin with, so 'troll' seems about right. Many, many people have answered the original question, "Can We Have It All But Still Retire Early?" with a resounding NO, because at some point, they would have to make drastic changes that seem unlikely to happen after 10-20 years of being accustomed to a certain lifestyle. But he/she keeps posting and focusing on the most trivial components of very long, well-thought out posts. I really don't understand what WF is trying to get from the thread now that the original question has been answered repeatedly.

[boy_bye]

I know if I asked, you all would tell us to sell the apartment, quit our jobs, pull the kids out of school and move to Costa Rica to start a dive shop.  Which we just might do someday, just not today.

I know a great dive shop in CR that us for sale -- the lady offered it to me every morning I rented snorkeling gear from her. Just holler when you are ready and I'll get you in touch :D

As for WestchesterFrugal, well, the irony of the username compared to the content of the posts is almost too good! Extreme example of un-self-awareness, or internet performance art -- we'll never know!

[Cassie]

I know what others mean when they say it is like watching a train wreck. I could not stop reading but didn't offer any advice because I just felt like she was wasting people's time.  It really is a shame how much time people put into trying to help her when she doesn't give a rip about others.

[rubor]

I grew up near Westchester. There are a lot of people like WF there. I don't think she is a troll, just a status-hungry typical New Yorker.  I am moving back up there for family reasons this year, and I am dreading conversations with people like that. I stopped reading that thread early and went for a long walk instead!

[iris lily]

So glad someone started this thread; I kept thinking about doing it myself. I hope it gets people to stop responding on the other thread (though it is likely WF will stop by here at some point and call US all trolls, which makes no sense).

I vote troll in the truest sense of the word, as in: came here to rile people up. It has worked wonders and I imagine WF is reporting back to some troll forum to show all the trouble he/she is causing.

Read through the thread: absolutely NOTHING has been accomplished in 8 pages and counting. It is just everyone in circles.

Happy weekend to all of you!

What' been accomplished is that I've been entertained. Hey that is worth something!  It's worth about $7.42.  I'll write a check to MMM.

[grantmeaname]

KittyWrestler Reloaded.

[Thegoblinchief]

I stopped after first couple of pages but I might keep reading if I need more funny drunk reading...

[2527]

I don't think she is a troll.  If she is, she is the best I've ever seen.

[G-dog]

I appreciate that someone with a higher income and spending may have different priorities and values, and that's okay.

But the attitude he/she has displayed has made the thread get more ridiculous the longer it goes on.

At this point, is it adding to, or subtracting from, the forums?

/shrug

Something to think about.

I'm new around here, but it is subtracting/distracting for me.  Seems like a fake, but I don't have enough experience here to tell. But easy for me to just stop reading the thread (over 300posts now).

But overall it is the haughty, snotty response to others, especially accusations about not reading the OP's posts (see, e.g., "sunk costs").  In my limited experience here, it is a very blunt and open community all with the intention of helping.  Posters expect some shrapnel, if they've read anything before jumping in.

[brandino29]

I don't think she is a troll.  If she is, she is the best I've ever seen.

That's what I started thinking.  Either way, s/he's going to great lengths.

I appreciate that someone with a higher income and spending may have different priorities and values, and that's okay.

But the attitude he/she has displayed has made the thread get more ridiculous the longer it goes on.

I agree with this 100%.  I don't believe anybody truly begrudges WF their high incomes, it's the attitude with which s/he's defended the lifestyle that is offputting.

What's inexplicable to me is WF's effort to defend all of their expenses.  It just doesn't fall in line with the general MMM theme.  Whether we like to admit it or not, everyone has a propensity to follow a group of people with similar values while generally shunning those with different beliefs.  Which is why there's clearly a majority of people on MMM who are more concerned about living the good life/retiring early than they are about making more money to fuel more spending on ridiculous consumerism behavior.  So that's where I get lost---I know it would be impossible for me to tune into the O'Reilly Factor for 4 straight months because that is not where my values lie, so how is it possible that s/he has remained so interested in the MMM concept for 4 months when it is evident that virtually everything goes against what s/he has so adamantly defended?

[NeverWasACornflakeGirl]

Troll

[LowER]

Couldn't stomach more than page 1 and the end of page 8, but I think they need either a KISS trust or Everest Wealth Management to pull them out of their financial Titanic/Hindenburg lifestyle.  Who makes $77K and lives like that?  Either they are second, maybe third, generation trustafarians or she's a troll.  I can't imagine any other scenario, and I favor the latter.

Is her ISP near the addresses of KISS or Everest?

[Cheddar Stacker]

Couldn't stomach more than page 1 and the end of page 8, but I think they need either a KISS trust or Everest Wealth Management to pull them out of their financial Titanic/Hindenburg lifestyle.  Who makes $77K and lives like that?  Either they are second, maybe third, generation trustafarians or she's a troll.  I can't imagine any other scenario, and I favor the latter.

Is her ISP near the addresses of KISS or Everest?

You realize that was $77K/month right?

That took a minute to sink into my brain, but once it did I was pretty much done with the thread. I read a bit more, but I could see it wasn't the reason I came to the forums. This community is not about making that amount of money so we can spend it all. I have no problem if someone does that, but I have no interest in discussing it and justifying/glorifying it.

Life is too short, I have more important threads to read so I can hopefully help someone optimize a complicated situation. Maybe someone that actually wants some help.

[JohnGalt]

Seriously... if you think they are trolling, just ignore the thread.  No need to start a whole new post that's all about attacking them.

[blainem13]

As I posted in my response in that thread, I think it's definitely an existential crisis for a member of the financial elite.  The poster is doing lots of things out of guilt (LEDs, Leaf, etc.) without addressing the real crisis of sustainability.  Further, they talk about their nonprofit work but not the fact that they are part of the income inequality problem. 

I think this gets at a general existential crisis for the elite in this country.  30 years ago most people looked up to the rich elite as something to be.  Now, when Ibanks recruit on campus, they have to deal with students asking how they would tell their parents that they are going to work at a big bank.  When you've spent your life, or generations, thinking of yourself as benevolent, it's hard to stomach the mainstream criticism of the 1%.  I'm not saying we're heading towards a french revolution type event, but I imagine that these feelings are similar to how many in the French aristocracy felt during the revolution ("But we've taken care of those people!"). 

The OP wants to be the center of attention, as she's probably used to.  I suppose we should stop giving her the satisfaction. 

[lexie2000]

I followed the fast-moving thread on the first day.  I was going to post, but then realized that it was probably pointless.  I haven't bothered to click onto the thread since.

[LowER]

Couldn't stomach more than page 1 and the end of page 8, but I think they need either a KISS trust or Everest Wealth Management to pull them out of their financial Titanic/Hindenburg lifestyle.  Who makes $77K and lives like that?  Either they are second, maybe third, generation trustafarians or she's a troll.  I can't imagine any other scenario, and I favor the latter.

Is her ISP near the addresses of KISS or Everest?

You realize that was $77K/month right?

That took a minute to sink into my brain, but once it did I was pretty much done with the thread. I read a bit more, but I could see it wasn't the reason I came to the forums. This community is not about making that amount of money so we can spend it all. I have no problem if someone does that, but I have no interest in discussing it and justifying/glorifying it.

Life is too short, I have more important threads to read so I can hopefully help someone optimize a complicated situation. Maybe someone that actually wants some help.

Nope.  I missed that.   My bad..... 

Their tax bill must be outrageous, especially this year.

[arebelspy]

Moderator Note: I am locking this thread.  While I sympathize and agree with many of you that are frustrated with this poster, it is not becoming of our community to start a thread to discuss an individual poster.

If you don't appreciate their postings, ignore their thread.  If they start encroaching more on other threads and they bother you, feel free to report the posts to the moderators.  If it gets out of control, action will be taken.  For now the best response is to not feed into it.

Thank you for your cooperation.