Are there other folks here who didn't discover FIRE until after 40?

[Channel-Z]

I found the forum at age 39. I turn 41 this year.

My parents were frugal, and I became frugal as a result. While I don't have the high-paying career most everyone enjoys, I can still put away 40-45% of my income. As a result, I crossed the $200,000 mark this year. I don't know if I'll be able to retire, but I'm not living paycheck to paycheck either.

Among my frugal moments:
-I haven't had cable TV since 1999 (last year of college).
-I bring a sack lunch to work.
-I cook once to eat twice, and when I eat out, I make sure I have something leftover to take home.
-Knowing how to cook helps tremendously.
-I bought my current car in 2005 with cash. Somehow it still runs.
-My cell phone is a triple-minute Tracfone; I buy a year of service for $80. I haven't had to buy minutes in a long time.
-I treat my credit card like cash, but really, I only use it at the gas pump, and when I rent a car on vacation.
-I'm fortunate not to have had college debt. I'm also unmarried and childless.
-I live in Kansas City, which for a large city, is relatively cheap. But you can make it an expensive life if you really want.


I think of this forum when I hear co-workers complaining about money. A woman who sits close to me rolled her chair over the other day to ask me if she could contest an overdraft fee. She literally had nothing in checking. We make the same meager salary. I know of others who work second jobs to cover their spending. One works at a golf pro shop. Another drives for Uber. I just hope I'm never in that position, working a full-time job, and having to supplement it with another job.

[4n6]

I didn't discover MMM until late 2013 when I was in a financial mess (even bigger than I am now) after I had just gotten married and I had just turned 40. I think reading the various stories on here, as well as other PF blogs, must have had an influence on me because I doubled my retirement savings (meaning how much I put away each year), moved most of my investments to index funds (wish I would've done so sooner instead of screwing around with others), tracked my spending, gotten serious about trying to be FI, and started my own PF blog.

I am 43 now, about to hit 44 in a couple of months. I don't think that I will want to RE because I love the work that I do, but the FI part is what I am after. Depending on returns in the market (and I am sure this is for a lot of people) I should be FI in my early 50s...maybe even 50 depending on the market. My goal is to be totally FI by the time I turn 53 and that should be pretty doable.

[4n6]

So I'm curious - for those of us at or over 40 who are still working, what would it take to retire tomorrow?

Say you're long lost relative suddenly shows up and gifts you with X dollars. What would that amount have to be?

I would need $1 million from where I am right now. Then I could actually be FI and possibly RE. That $1 million (tax free of course) would be used to pay off the mortgage and then invest the rest. I would then be really near 25x my expenses without the mortgage. That would be nice.

[Cassie]

We semi-retired at 58 and DH was 53. His was forced as he was laid-off and could not find another job. I work p.t. and he works contract work when it is available.  He would have preferred to work at his old job until 60 but stuff happens. WE were always frugal but lost $ in both real estate and stock market but we are fine.

[Linea_Norway]

Anyone else who likes to run over the numbers time and time again and improve your spreadsheet to see if FIRE is closer than expected? It is what I like to do in my lost hours at work. Today I spent time on improving my tax-calculation formula, so that I don't calculate an average tax%, but an accurate calculation of the correct percentages at all stages. I seem to have become an Excel-nerd, even though I never had much to do with the tool. There is probably still more improvement to be done, as I didn't split income over 2 people and the tax free foot might be a bit off. Will do that some other time.

I also made an overview of what we have in savings and in property, including slightly pessimistic sales figures for when we would sell our house and downsize. It turns out that FIRE is much closer than we thought, if we would only downsize and sell our mountain cabin.

DH needs to get used to the idea of it being so close and selling the house and our cabin. But he did notice that we could easily start working 50% in 2019! That of course requires us to live in a central place where houses are not cheap, which will delay making money free from property for investing in money-generating stuff. DH did not yet get enthusiastic about my idea of taking up a mortgage to invest in funds.
There also seems to be a sweet spot. If we have too much stash to start with at FIRE, we would have to pay so much value tax that we would need to reduce stash to pay that tax. The sweet point is becoming very clear, between 7 mil Norwegian crowns if working 50% in 2019 and 2020. And 7,5 mil if only working part time in 2019. And this is (with today's version of my Excel sheet) a totally realistic plan with our current saving rate.

[TheBuddha]

So I'm curious - for those of us at or over 40 who are still working, what would it take to retire tomorrow?

Say you're long lost relative suddenly shows up and gifts you with X dollars. What would that amount have to be?

$600k and I'd quit my job. I don't want to be driving a truck much past age 50. With even a modest nest egg like that I could start a business, try writing/self-publishing (this is what I really want to do), or get an enjoyable part-time job.

[sisto]

So I'm curious - for those of us at or over 40 who are still working, what would it take to retire tomorrow?

Say you're long lost relative suddenly shows up and gifts you with X dollars. What would that amount have to be?

I'd need $500K to pull the trigger.

[InnTee]

So I'm curious - for those of us at or over 40 who are still working, what would it take to retire tomorrow?

Say you're long lost relative suddenly shows up and gifts you with X dollars. What would that amount have to be?

It would all depend though on whether DW comes around to some significant reductions in lifestyle spending. She's not (yet) bought into MMM philosophy, and the marriage is more important than FIRE. So our family's high spending pushes up the magic number significantly.

Scenario 1: no change in family spending. Around $2.5M after taxes needed. Yikes!
Scenario 2: fairly moderate changes in family spending (scaling back travel, restaurants, frivolous groceries, etc.). Around $1.3M after taxes needed.
Scenario 3: tighter budget still (closer to MMM). Around $500K after taxes needed.

I wish we'd gone into marriage with a Mustachian outlook, but we didn't. So now the math's a bit fuzzy.

[thunderball]

"So I'm curious - for those of us at or over 40 who are still working, what would it take to retire tomorrow?

Say you're long lost relative suddenly shows up and gifts you with X dollars. What would that amount have to be?"

This is a great question.  I consider getting to FI to be such a relief that work will be less stressful and I'll enjoy it more, and I won't be in such a hurry.  My FI number is lower than most - $500k.  Currently about 2/5s there.  On current path we should hit FI ~2022, and I'd be 53. 

My 30s and early 40s were one big face-punch, so I'm thankful to be on this path. 

[stoaX]

For me, an additional $300k and more importantly, knowing that affordable health insurance will be available while I'm retired.

[rudged]

Thanks for starting this thread! I'm 54 and discovered this group a couple of years ago. My partner is already retired. One reason why I'm reluctant to retire early (in addition to previously voiced concerns about health care) is that nearly all of our stash has accumulated within tax advantaged accounts (403(b), Roth IRA). I know there are procedures to gradually ladder out, but I feel no sense of urgency to do so. I chose to pursue a career as an academic because I wanted a job that would allow me to continue to be productive as long as I wanted to, perhaps for the rest of my life. My schedule at present is quite flexible, which means that nearly anything we'd like to do in retirement is something we can do right now.

[backyardfeast]

Love reading everyone's stories.  I discovered MMM right around 40, but I had been on the FIRE bandwagon since my early 20s.  But as much as i loved the idea, I didn't love the idea of working hard and earning lots of money in the short term in order to save enough. :)  So my approach to life has always been to be frugal enough that I could have my freedom along the way.  I stayed in school forever, (working my way through) and used to joke that I just wanted a real job by the time I was 40.  I JUST made it at 39!  I also used to joke that I had been planning my retirement before I had a real job...

So DH and still don't really have much savings to speak of.  But our MMM attitude toward squeezing every bit of life out of every penny and trying to avoid debt as much as possible has meant that now--with me finally earning decent money at 44--we can live on my income.  DH has semi-retired to a dream part-time gig at 53.  We are in the process of a major mortgage downsize that should allow us to pay off our share of our home (a new blended household with my mom) in 5 or so years.  And my lovely job--that I came to so late--will pay me out a very cushy pension when the time comes.  I'm planning that our frugal cost of living should allow me to take a reduced pension early (55-57 ish, depending on how things go). 

In the meantime, we live our amazing dream life NOW, so all we will do in retirement is more of the same.  After my hardcore younger days, I have finally come around to the philosophy that that working isn't the end of the world--and can even be a pleasure--if you have the right work-life balance.  And with DH almost a decade older than me, I have no desire to put off doing things together while we're both still at the top of our game.  The slow and steady approach to RE has worked for us beautifully, in the end.

[Pigeon]

I'm over 50, dh is the same age.  We're frugal, but not mustachian particularly, and had always saved decently for retirement, but never had very high incomes (think two teacher salaries).  A few years ago, I got a big promotion and started making a lot more, and we've put most of that into savings.  We could get retiree health insurance at a reasonable cost and dh will get a modest pension.

Like the OP, we have kids we'd like to be near.  I have no interest in moving south to find a LCOL area to retire, so where we end up will probably depend on the kids.  One is in college and one will be a high school senior next year.  We plan to retire when the last one graduates.

[Hexbolt]

Been lurking for a while; first post, woohoo! I'm 46, and only officially discovered FIRE last summer. But I've been interested in investing and personal finance since my 20s.

My first aha moment was sitting in the "invest in our 401k" presentation, shortly after beginning my first job. You've all seen the chart the presenter shared: if you invest 10K at age 45, it gets you this much. But if you invest the same 10K at age 25, you get THIS much. I was like, I WANT ME SOME OF THAT.

That led to finding the Motley Fool, and messing around with active investing, until some small losses brought me to my senses, and I started index investing. I was fairly pedal to the metal through my 20s, but I had a relatively low salary, so I wasn't able to save tons.

In my 30s the retirement calculators were telling me that I'd be just fine if I kept going as I was, and so that's exactly what I did. It ended up being kind of a lost decade. I didn't make many mistakes, but neither was I very focused on managing my money. If I had been, I might be FIRE by now. Oh well. The concept of early retirement simply didn't exist for me at that time. One worked until 65 and that was it.

In fact I had to stumble across MMM's famous (or infamous) "Shockingly easy math" post a couple of times before I started to wonder if it applied to me. Once I sat down to do the math, the pieces started to fall in place. I got real focused, real fast.

Depending on the market and healthcare (sigh), I can FIRE on 650K in 5-6 years. Fingers crossed.

[robartsd]

Ok, I discovered MMM and the FIRE concept in my late 30's, but I'm 40 now. It is easy to see how I would have made some different choices over the past couple of decades if FIRE concepts had gotten to me earlier. I spent my 20's mostly trying to figure out "what I wanted to be if I grew up". DW and I married in our late 20's. I reached age 30 studying structural engineering and graduated with a BS in Architectual Engineering shortly after the housing bubble took down much of the industry. Eventually my interest in computers helped me get into the reasonably well compensated office job I have today. After I got my current job, DW quit the poorly compensated job that was grinding her down, but keeping us afloat.

After discovering MMM a couple of years ago (less than a year after financing a slightly used Corolla), I realized that trimming a some fat could really accellerate FI (figured I was starting too late to really RE). I started bringing up the idea with DW. Since we aren't really "spendypants", we'd gotten by just fine up to that point. Using the tools I discovered in the FIRE community I quickly was able to assure myself that our status quo would lead to successful standard age retirement. We've made moderate progress on reducing spending since: I currently project retiring around age 57.

[Gone_Hiking]

Love the thread!  DH and I are both 46.  I was never a big spender and did not like the idea of getting in debt.   I started working at 29, figuring out that I would work until 70 or so.  FIRE wasn't really on the horizon until late last year, but DH and I have kept lifestyle creep in check and kept contributing healthy amounts to savings and investments.   Late last year year came a layoff notice.  For me.  I found another job (see the thread here) and I realized that, while I like what I do and people I work with, I have little appetite for the corporate rah rah rah that invariably comes in during new employee training and quarterly meetings.   I am now quite focused on reaching FI that would give DH and me options to work or not to.  Or to feel free to rate something at work as totally crap without caring that it would affect my performance review. Our son will be leaving for college in 8 years and, by my calculation, we will have plenty to kick back by then.

I discovered MMM a couple of years ago and haven't starting reading until recently.  I'm glad I have found the group of people for whom eschewing conspicuous consumption is healthy, not weird.

[Hexbolt]

Love the thread!  DH and I are both 46. 

1971 was a good year. :-)

[itchyfeet]

Love the thread!  DH and I are both 46. 

1971 was a good year. :-)

Indeed ;-)

[Gone_Hiking]

Love the thread!  DH and I are both 46. 

1971 was a good year. :-)

Indeed ;-)

Late 1970 was no slouch, either

[DeskJockey2028]

Native '72er here. Early enough to enjoy the first Star Wars flick in the theaters, late enough to take my kids to the newest batch.

[mbolton]

I found MMM's blog 4 years ago and love Pete's straight forward, no BS style.

This blog has really helped me.  Every year we increase our savings and become more confident in RE.  There is no doubt that we can do this.  There are so many positive examples on this site.

There is a big difference between causually saving for tomorrow vs. having an action plan and holding your self accountable for your financial future.

We (wife and I) are on track to be FI in 7 years and RE in 8.5 years.

No excuses. Could we have done this differently, maybe, but the most important thing is that we figured this out and are following through on these changes. 

Leaving the dumpster fire that is Corporate America, earlier than most, is prize enough. 

[Double Yu]

Hooray for this thread! I'm only through the first page but had to stop reading to say it's SO nice to find similarities with my trajectory/ies -- sometimes the MMM forums are so dispiriting, what with high earning young'uns doing all the right things...

I'm almost 47, DH is almost 55. We're nowhere close to retiring and in fact are both looking at career changes and an attempt to make up for past years' low earnings.

I found MMM - oh, maybe 3-4 years ago, found there wasn't a *whole lot* I could change at that point. I had another forum username but didn't use it much and somehow got locked out without any way to get back in. So, now I'm Double Yu :)

On the plus side for our eventual "retirement" (in quotes because I've always assumed we would never be able to retire, something I'm gradually rethinking), we have no debt, own a house in an appreciating area ... and are committed to frugality and thrift (great word, related to thrive, I love it!).

We just don't have much in the way of passive income possibilities, so I'm working on that...

First orders of business: get some family turbulence settled a bit (elder with health issues requiring care), find a job and save up enough to bring my DH home from overseas (the only place he's found work, hence the need for a career change)!

[GenXbiker]

I'm in this group.  Going back over my entire career, I've been frugal, had a budget, and tried to save as much as I reasonably could.  In my 30's, I would regularly calculate how many months of expenses saved, for example if I was to quit my job, but it was well short of a retirement stache.  I figured I would work until 67 - full retirement age.  I had gotten 1-2 years CDs as high at 7%, but when CD rates plunged, I started investing in Vanguard funds.  I discovered MMM several years ago but didn't register on the forum until recently.  I only stopped by here once in a while.  Since I was already living frugally for 20 years prior to that, I haven't made any significant changes since.  I had an 80+% savings rate last year.  My stache is at 73x bare bones current budget (which is about 45x for a practical FIRE budget), so I could FIRE now, but I'm looking at 2 to 4 more years of work.  I'm not in a rush to FIRE because I like my job quite a bit, am paid well, have excellent benefits, and would like to build up a little bit more stache.  I'm still thinking about what I'll do after I FIRE, whether traveling, moving, slow travel with an RV, etc.

[Adventine]

I didn't discover FIRE until age 44, when I discovered MMM's website, then quickly worked out I was already FI. I didn't RE for another year because it sounded too good to be true and I wanted to be sure. Turns out it was good AND true!

Winner winner chicken dinner!!!!!

Dicey's comment made me laugh out loud. But yeah, what a lovely surprise that must have been!

[singpolyma]

Curious about people who read YMOYL and found it "too extreme" but somehow ended up with MMM?  I read YMOYL after MMM and found it to be a much *less* extreme take that I have suggested to people who couldn't quite mesh with the MMM message.

[FIREstache]

I'm in this group.  Going back over my entire career, I've been frugal, had a budget, and tried to save as much as I reasonably could.  In my 30's, I would regularly calculate how many months of expenses saved, for example if I was to quit my job, but it was well short of a retirement stache.  I figured I would work until 67 - full retirement age.  I had gotten 1-2 years CDs as high at 7%, but when CD rates plunged, I started investing in Vanguard funds.  I discovered MMM several years ago but didn't register on the forum until recently.  I only stopped by here once in a while.  Since I was already living frugally for 20 years prior to that, I haven't made any significant changes since.  I had an 80+% savings rate last year.  My stache is at 73x bare bones current budget (which is about 45x for a practical FIRE budget), so I could FIRE now, but I'm looking at 2 to 4 more years of work.  I'm not in a rush to FIRE because I like my job quite a bit, am paid well, have excellent benefits, and would like to build up a little bit more stache.  I'm still thinking about what I'll do after I FIRE, whether traveling, moving, slow travel with an RV, etc.

I don't normally calculate bare bones, just my % of stash target and what WR I can use to cover expenses, but using the bare bones method, I am at 80X.  But since a car is essential for me and eventually will need replaced, I am also saving money toward a future used car (i.e. sinking fund), which drops that bare bones multiple to 70X.  In reality, I'll want plenty for discretionary spending when I FIRE, which then drops my stash to 29X, which is a 3.44% WR.

Curious about people who read YMOYL and found it "too extreme" but somehow ended up with MMM?  I read YMOYL after MMM and found it to be a much *less* extreme take that I have suggested to people who couldn't quite mesh with the MMM message.

I'm 54 with less than a year to FIRE.  There are some other early retirement sites and forums as well.  I was already saving and living a frugal lifestyle before I ever heard of MMM or visited any other similar websites, have been investing at Vanguard for over 10 years now, have been contributing to my retirement plans since the mid 90's when it was first available to me, so nothing has changed in the last few years since I first found this site and similar ones.  I haven't read YMOYL - I feel like I'm at such an advanced stage in this matter, have had a high savings rate over my working life (even higher in recent years), that I don't get much out of anything I read anymore.  Sure, there's the occasional tidbit that I pick up, but so much is redundant to me at this point that nothing is going to move the needle much for me.

[LilyFleur]

I found MMM at age 56; retired at 57; now am 59, working about a day a week for a friend. I was able to exit a stressful under-employment situation with a commute and only one week of vacation a year. I am MUCH healthier now. I love being able to get plenty of rest at night and have time for my family and friends.

[2sk22]

Here I am in my mid 50s and finally discovered MMM just a few months ago :-)

However, it turns out that in my household we have been (mostly) Mustachian all of our lives.

• Lived always on one income
• Bought a modest house in our early 30s and have renovated as possible. Finally paid off the mortgage this year (had less than a year to go). Still live in the same house.
• Wife and I maxed out our 401Ks our entire careers - although my investment choices in the early 90s were not great.
• We have been investing after tax money steadily in index funds since 1994 without a break. Its been on automatic mode (monthly investments) and have fortunately never had to sell a share.
• Owned only modest cars - bought for cash and kept for at least ten years. The last car loan we took was in 2001.

My only regret is that I was not even more aggressive in investing in the early 2000s but I felt then that we were already putting away as much as we dared.

I have also come to realize that the amount of "emergency" cash we need to be comfortable is far greater than that of most people here on this forum but I also realize thats just who we are.

[happy]

I really can't thank MMM enough (as well as all the other contributors on this forum).  It seems like an exaggeration to say that a website changed one's life, but in my case, it really did."

It did for me too.

I found MMM at the end of 2011 aged around 53. I had lived frugally out of necessity on and off over the years, but did tend towards consumption creep when financial pressure was off. I didn't save a lot, but never carried debt other than a mortgage and generally was well ahead of the payment schedule.  In the 5 years or so prior to 2012 I had become interested in simple living, slow living, reducing consumption and sustainability, but was looking for a way to quit work and have a more subsistence based lifestyle. MMM fitted together a whole lot of things swirling in my head.. and the rest, as they say, was history. I drank the kool-aid and did a gradual but persistent lifestyle change...my kids were teenagers, and I judged it unfair to radically change their lifestyle all of a sudden. Nevertheless I was able to save >50% quite quickly.

Fast forward and I was able to retire in 2018 at age 60.

[BuddyXL]

I didn't even know about MMM or FIRE or anything like that until my late 40s.  Now into my 50s and playing catch up.

It sucks as I was always around friends and family who just told me you had to put in your 30-40 years of work before you could even think of retiring.  And no one I knew did anything like investing.  You are definitely a product of your environment.

So this is all new to me and unfortunately I am paying for it now and will not likely be able to FIRE until well into my 60s due to lack of investments and prior (and current) jobs with no retirement plans.

But at least what I am learning here is helping NOW as opposed to never.

And I have to admit while I enjoy what Pete writes and posts, the info I glean from the forums is far more useful to me.  No offense to Pete of course I just feel he was an anomaly of having the right career at the right time while many of the rest of us are just the average sample set.

[Metalcat]

I'm lucky that I found MMM only 2 years in to my career.
That said, I was already in my 30s when I started working, DH is a decade older, and we had a combined debt of 420K.
Ouch.

MMM has actually been TERRIBLE for my finances, lol
I'm not even joking.

I was extremely hard working, and aside from a few luxuries, I would have stuck with my highly lucrative job and put off spending on things like travel until I was debt free and "caught up" on my savings. The debt drove me insane.

I was miserable and would have forced myself to stay miserable until I felt I had sufficiently dug myself out of my hole.

Then I discovered MMM, briefly doubled down on my self-flagellatory lifestyle and became obsessed with how quickly I could leave my career and start really living my life.

Except...I trained for 11 years to practice in my career, and I truly loved the work, but I was quickly burning out and starting to hate it.

I sat with my thoughts for awhile and eventually realized that what I admired about Pete was the life he lived post-FIRE, which includes plenty of meaningful work, but on his own terms. His initial 'stache wasn't even necessary for his career/lifestyle change.

I thought carefully about what my ideal work life would look like if I didn't have any pressure to make money.
I then realized that I didn't want to leave my profession, I wanted to leave my job. So I did.

I quit, found a higher end job only 2 days a week, slowed down my work pace, shortened my work day, and focused on less profitable procedures that actually mean more to me in terms of fulfillment.

DH and I both love our work, are both finally doing it at a level that we've always wanted to, and to answer PP's question, you couldn't pay us enough to quit tomorrow.
I would rather have to do it for another decade than not be allowed to do it anymore.

Neither of us will retire any earlier than we originally planned to, but we will retire with 1.5-3M (plus 2 properties) instead of 5-7M.

Neither of us will deal with any more burnout, we have plenty of time and energy for our non-profit work, and we live our lives to the fullest NOW instead of waiting for anything.

The future is now a giant question mark because doors just keep opening. We actually spend more now if we really want something because we just don't worry about the money.

So yeah, MMM has made me spend more, make astonishingly less money, and worry less about debt repayment and savings.
I bet you don't read that here every day.

[DeskJockey2028]

It was fascinating back in 2017 to read everyone's responses. It's fascinating now, 2 years later to read new responses and updates! I certainly didn't expect this post to come back around but I'm glad it did!

Personally, my journey continues. We're in the "boring middle" bit right now. It's only boring in terms of FIRE stuff that has to be done. The rest of life is pretty interesting! Going on a few trips, seeing a few live shows, enjoying spending time with my wife and kids. You know, life.

I'm still on track for 2028 (when I wrote the original post, I think I was on track for 2029, so that's neat).

[Dicey]

I have also come to realize that the amount of "emergency" cash we need to be comfortable is far greater than that of most people here on this forum but I also realize thats just who we are.

We also keep a huge cushion. The older you get, the more crap you've lived through, the more you appreciate a fat EF.

[DeskJockey2028]

We do this too. We've got about 14 months in our standard E-Fund (and it's slowly growing) and I've got another savings account with an additional months worth of expenses.

We've been through times when we both weren't working and it was awful. Never again. Also, we're aiming to have a significant cash stash when we hit the eject button on our jobs. Part of this is for our first year or 18 months living expenses. The second part is for a large road trip we're planning for shortly after I'm done (my wife will retire first).

I have also come to realize that the amount of "emergency" cash we need to be comfortable is far greater than that of most people here on this forum but I also realize thats just who we are.

We also keep a huge cushion. The older you get, the more crap you've lived through, the more you appreciate a fat EF.

[SwordGuy]

I discovered MMM late in 2012.  I was 55.   My wife was 65.   We have a mentally handicapped daughter to provide for after we die.   We didn't get out of poverty until I turned 30.

I thought I would have to work until 70 at the very least, possibly until I dropped dead, in order to do enough for our daughter.  I didn't want to make her a financial burden on our son and I sure didn't trust Uncle Sam to provide enough for her on his own.

And then I realized that there was a better way!

We hadn't been frugal in day-to-day stuff but had always been careful on the big things like houses and cars.   We had finished paying off our house a couple of years earlier and had no other debts.  We had maxed our 401Ks about that time we paid off our house, so our stash had been growing.   But there was still a lot of waste in our budget.

Once we read MMM we had a plan that we knew would work, so we dove in and increased our savings rate.  We got it up to 67%.   That made our investments grow.   Writings by @arebelspy  and others gave us enough knowledge to put our toes into real estate investing.

Real estate investing was a real FIRE accelerant for us.   I could invest $50k and 3-6 months' of weekends to renovate a house and get a $30k net worth jump and a $5k income bump.   It would have taken $125k in stock investments to get the same amount of income!   

Our best year of net worth growth was when we renovated two houses in one year, plus but a new home for ourselves at a steep discount off appraised value using real estate investment tricks, plus maxed out our 401ks, plus invested in taxable accounts.   Our net worth growth was tens of thousands of dollars more than our gross salaries!   Is that amazing or what?

If we didn't have our daughter to provide for we could have retired 12 years earlier than expected.   As it was, we still retired 10 years earlier.   We own 6 houses, 5 of which are free and clear.   We live in the one with a mortgage, rent out 4 of them for the long term, and rent out 1/2 of the other (a duplex) until we finish renovating it (when it will get flipped).

If we stay within our budgeted expenses, in an average stock market year, I can buy and renovate another house almost every year.   Is that amazing?   We quit our jobs and we can afford to buy a house, paid for in cash in full, almost every year!

Lordy, but this website changed our lives for the better!

Now we're looking at buying some houses, renovating them, and turning them into self-supporting charities to provide lower cost housing for folks who need it -- because we can. 

One idea is to provide student housing for art or history students at about 1/2 market rate.  The other is to provide a half-way house for foster kids who have aged out of the foster system, so they can find an affordable place to live and build a credit history.  (It's hard to save 1st and last month's rent, plus utility deposits, plus build a credit history without parents co-signing for their first apartment, particularly if they get moved from one foster family to another all the time.)

[Just Joe]

It was fascinating back in 2017 to read everyone's responses. It's fascinating now, 2 years later to read new responses and updates! I certainly didn't expect this post to come back around but I'm glad it did!

Personally, my journey continues. We're in the "boring middle" bit right now. It's only boring in terms of FIRE stuff that has to be done. The rest of life is pretty interesting! Going on a few trips, seeing a few live shows, enjoying spending time with my wife and kids. You know, life.

I'm still on track for 2028 (when I wrote the original post, I think I was on track for 2029, so that's neat).

I actually miss those early days when DW and I were discovering all these new ideas from this forum and your shared methods! An age of discovery. Now much of it is routine to us. Financially we are in a better place and more secure feeling.

[Mr Mark]

I have also come to realize that the amount of "emergency" cash we need to be comfortable is far greater than that of most people here on this forum but I also realize thats just who we are.

We also keep a huge cushion. The older you get, the more crap you've lived through, the more you appreciate a fat EF.

I'm fired just short of a year now, and I had a huge cash reserve of about 2 years expenses which my SO really liked. I'd say a large cash reserve is a bit of a 'luxury item' one can sometimes afford later in the journey when you have a high net worth. It's a lot less hassle to manage your cashflow with a big buffer. In super accumulate mode, I'd be wary of the false 'sense of security' vs missed investment time/opportunity that a too high cash reserve implies, especially when young. Similarly, you'll want a bit more in bonds when FIRE [I'm @ 30%] than when starting out [I'd recommend 0-5%].

[Mr Mark]

On OP thread point, I found MMM in 2012. 6 years later I FIRED.

It was amazing to discover FIRE even tho I was in my late 40s. Pete's brilliantly simple observations on saving rate, combined with the idea of seeing investment dollars as little workers, toiling away to make more and compounding $, were really an epiphany. I enjoyed the forums and especially the great advice when I was getting into portfolio allocation and Vanguard. JL Collins series was another 'ah hah' moment.

Luckily I had already had a bit of success in RE and was earning a ton. Was already saving as much as thought I could, but soon increased that by upping frugality. So although I'd consider my run to be a 'business class' version of MMM, it gave me the confidence to make the jump I probably would have shied away from otherwise. It also enabled me to significantly change my career path in 2013, specifically aiming for pulling the pin in 2017/18 and maximising the retirement value of the position I ended my career in. Having 'F**k you' money (and being prepared to use it) is also a tremendous feeling of freedom prior to RE, and makes being at work a lot nicer knowing you can leave anytime.

So, huge thanks MMM and the forum members.

Unfortunately now that I'm retired and my portfolio worries are sorted I have a lot less time to spend on the forums... just too busy having fun!

 

[oldtoyota]

Well, I'm now 59, so the concept didn't really exist when I was 40. Financial blogs hadn't been invented yet, lol.

The idea existed a long time ago. People called it "frugality" or "living beneath your means."

To create this type of lifestyle was quite common among those who survived the Depression and in certain cultures that had to deal with racism and discrimination.

Your Money or Your Life was a book about this topic, and I bet there were ones even earlier than that.

I learned this from my older relatives and then refined some steps based on what I learned here and in books.

[SwordGuy]

Well, I'm now 59, so the concept didn't really exist when I was 40. Financial blogs hadn't been invented yet, lol.

The idea existed a long time ago. People called it "frugality" or "living beneath your means."

To create this type of lifestyle was quite common among those who survived the Depression and in certain cultures that had to deal with racism and discrimination.

Your Money or Your Life was a book about this topic, and I bet there were ones even earlier than that.

I learned this from my older relatives and then refined some steps based on what I learned here and in books.

We knew about frugality and saving.   We learned it from our parents and applied it in reasonable, workmanlike manner.  By regular American standards we were superstars at it.

But we didn't understand investing and we had no idea that FIRE was possible at the relatively low dollar amounts it actually can succeed at.   We were too much in the dark to even see all the dots, much less connect them.   MMM "turned on the lights" for us.

The problem with not knowing what you don't know is you don't know to learn more about it.   The information was available in a relatively small number of books, none of which most people would find by accident.    I found MMM by accident whilst doing online research on preparing for retirement in 15+ years.   Learning MMM cut that to 5 years.   

[happy]

I found MMM from a very slight reference to ERE on a simple living forum, which led me to ERE, just as Jacob handed the torch to MMM.
I had thought of most  of his principles/concept etc over a number of years, but hadn't put them all together quite so cohesively and at various times when I was nearly there I listened to people who said it couldn't be done, so I thought I must be wrong and I didn't take it any further. These were mainly folks with lots of financial credibility whereas I had none.  Hmmm, lets see who is retired now?  (I really wish I had had more independent self-belief, but I didn't...no point looking back, I've made it now).

[Dicey]

Well, I'm now 59, so the concept didn't really exist when I was 40. Financial blogs hadn't been invented yet, lol.

The idea existed a long time ago. People called it "frugality" or "living beneath your means."

To create this type of lifestyle was quite common among those who survived the Depression and in certain cultures that had to deal with racism and discrimination.

Your Money or Your Life was a book about this topic, and I bet there were ones even earlier than that.

I learned this from my older relatives and then refined some steps based on what I learned here and in books.

We knew about frugality and saving.   We learned it from our parents and applied it in reasonable, workmanlike manner.  By regular American standards we were superstars at it.

But we didn't understand investing and we had no idea that FIRE was possible at the relatively low dollar amounts it actually can succeed at.   We were too much in the dark to even see all the dots, much less connect them.  MMM "turned on the lights" for us.

The problem with not knowing what you don't know is you don't know to learn more about it.   The information was available in a relatively small number of books, none of which most people would find by accident.    I found MMM by accident whilst doing online research on preparing for retirement in 15+ years.   Learning MMM cut that to 5 years.

Yup, Sword Guy nailed it. I'm too lazy to dig up the ancient quoted comment, but I was referring to the concept of "FIRE" specifically. I am the oldest of six. My Dad was an Air Traffic Controller and my mom was a SAHM until I was in a high school. My parents sent us to private school. I believe I was born with a black belt in frugality. I was a die-hard Amy D. fan, and was sad when she closed up shop. Even the Amazing Frugal Zealot had very little to say about what to do with the money once you'd saved it, so MMM was groundbreaking for me.

BTW, in my experience, people who were products of the Depression tended not to trust banks or the stock market. Therefore, they didn't really take advantage of vehicles that provided compound interest (well, except for when CD's were paying crazy high rates-but there was also high inflation back then). I know of a number of people who had rental properties but refused to own stocks. There is so much more information on investing now, plus 401k, IRA, Roth, and HSA options that simply didn't exist back then.

[2sk22]

BTW, in my experience, people who were products of the Depression tended not to trust banks or the stock market. Therefore, they didn't really take advantage of vehicles that provided compound interest (well, except for when CD's were paying crazy high rates-but there was also high inflation back then). I know of a number of people who had rental properties but refused to own stocks. There is so much more information on investing now, plus 401k, IRA, Roth, and HSA options that simply didn't exist back when.

I grew up with frugal parents but they weren't much in the way of investors. My father's grandfather had lost a lot of money with some unwise investments back in the 1930s so this lore had been passed down through the family ever since.

One of the best things that ever happened to me was in 1993 when I happened to walk by a small bookstore in New York City that was having a sale. On a whim, I bought a small book called the Wall Street Journal's Guide to Investing and devoured it cover to cover. Right the next day, I went and opened an account with Fidelity - starting with an initial $2500 investment in their S&P 500 index fund.

[OtherJen]

Well, I'm now 59, so the concept didn't really exist when I was 40. Financial blogs hadn't been invented yet, lol.

The idea existed a long time ago. People called it "frugality" or "living beneath your means."

To create this type of lifestyle was quite common among those who survived the Depression and in certain cultures that had to deal with racism and discrimination.

Your Money or Your Life was a book about this topic, and I bet there were ones even earlier than that.

I learned this from my older relatives and then refined some steps based on what I learned here and in books.

We knew about frugality and saving.   We learned it from our parents and applied it in reasonable, workmanlike manner.  By regular American standards we were superstars at it.

But we didn't understand investing and we had no idea that FIRE was possible at the relatively low dollar amounts it actually can succeed at.   We were too much in the dark to even see all the dots, much less connect them.   MMM "turned on the lights" for us.

The problem with not knowing what you don't know is you don't know to learn more about it.   The information was available in a relatively small number of books, none of which most people would find by accident.    I found MMM by accident whilst doing online research on preparing for retirement in 15+ years.   Learning MMM cut that to 5 years.

This. I’m well aware of frugality. My parents each have 6 siblings. Mom’s parents were teenagers during the Depression and dad’s were poor immigrants who died well before they could retire. Frugality is familiar.

In contrast, I never heard of financial independence other than inherited wealth or a major windfall (e.g., lottery winnings, lucrative entertainment or sports career) until my late 30s. I wish I had. My surviving grandpa, dad, and uncles all retired on full social security and union-negotiated pensions from automotive manufacturers or suppliers. They didn’t have to think about private retirement investments. As long as they could keep working long enough to get Medicare or medical retirement, they were set. We honestly had no concept of another way.

[Mr Mark]

Well, I'm now 59, so the concept didn't really exist when I was 40. Financial blogs hadn't been invented yet, lol.

The idea existed a long time ago. People called it "frugality" or "living beneath your means."

To create this type of lifestyle was quite common among those who survived the Depression and in certain cultures that had to deal with racism and discrimination.

Your Money or Your Life was a book about this topic, and I bet there were ones even earlier than that.

I learned this from my older relatives and then refined some steps based on what I learned here and in books.

We knew about frugality and saving.   We learned it from our parents and applied it in reasonable, workmanlike manner.  By regular American standards we were superstars at it.

But we didn't understand investing and we had no idea that FIRE was possible at the relatively low dollar amounts it actually can succeed at.   We were too much in the dark to even see all the dots, much less connect them.   MMM "turned on the lights" for us.

The problem with not knowing what you don't know is you don't know to learn more about it.   The information was available in a relatively small number of books, none of which most people would find by accident.    I found MMM by accident whilst doing online research on preparing for retirement in 15+ years.   Learning MMM cut that to 5 years.

It's similar to Jack Bogle. He totally cracked the answer to investing in the stock market a long time ago [low cost index funds], but absolutely no-one in the financial industry was economically incentivised to tell anyone about it, especially retail investors.

[DaMa]

I found MMM in 2014 age 45 while looking for cheaper cell plans.  I had been contributing to a 401k my entire career, but had really increased my savings starting in 2009 with the thought of retiring at 55.  With MMM advice, I reduced my expenses significantly and increased my savings.  FIRE at 50.

[MatthewK]

Really enjoy this thread. I'm 46, 47 in a few days. Wife is 43 and we have 3 kids, oldest entering high school and youngest going into 3rd grade.

 I discovered MMM 4 years ago, full convert but wife is not. That can be rough at times but it's not like she's a spendthrift either, slowly she's coming around I think. It is hard when you find this after married/ children so it's nice to see there are others out there dealing with the same things.

We are not FI but are pretty close with only small mortgage as debt so I feel pretty good about that.

**adding my age to my profile as someone suggested earlier :-)

[Bernard]

I've always enjoyed life. Spent everything I made. Had a Ferrari when I was in my 20s. Rolex watches. Went out to eat. Didn't go into debt, but didn't save either. Around 2012 I had 9 cars, 4 motorcycles, 3 motor scooters, and 12 (?) bicycles, the "best" one costing $12K.
I used shopping as a form of entertainment. Went into Abercombie & Fitch to buy a set of $169 jeans. Didn't need any, but, well . . .
Used to go to Starbucks at least once a day to meet the wife. We once calculated that we spent $500 to $600 per month there, so over $6K per year.
Spent $142 on DirecTV per month, for over a decade. That's $20K with interest. I think you got the picture . . .

Got married in 2006 at age 49. Bought a house in 2017 at age 59. Looked into Suze Orman first, bought "The Millionaire Next Door," then listened by accident to Dave Ramsey. Found MMM and the FIRE movement in 2015 and it has really changed my life.  I got rid of everything I don't need or use (well, within reason). I don't go shopping for clothes anymore, but if I really need something, I go to Ross. I think I paid for all my jeans (have too many) either $9.00 or $19.99 each. I don't go out for lunch anymore, but use the microwave at work. Now I buy Jose's Coffee (3-lbs. bag for $13.99 at Costco) and brew my own coffee at work. I max out our IRAs for years and my wife's 401K (I don't have that option), and I write down every penny that comes in and goes out. My detailed spreadsheets go back to 2012. I watch the nest egg grow and enjoy the acceleration of it. While I will not be able to retire early, I will be able to retire, which is absolutely fantastic for me.

My next door neighbor (she's a nurse, he's a mechanic) must have gotten a windfall. Just within the past few weeks, they bought a 40' toy hauler, a new Jeep Wrangler, a new 4-wheeled off-road toy, new motorcycles, bicycles, the works. In the old days I would have been envious. Now I just feel sorry for them and calculate how much more money they'd have at the time of retirement had they not bought all those things.

[never give up]

I found FIRE just a few months into my 40’s. At age 39 I paid off my mortgage and promptly spent nearly $10k on bicycles. Lifestyle inflation was a big danger here with my mortgage gone. I do wonder where I would be now if I hadn’t stumbled across MMM. I found this site though because I started to look for new cars but nearly fainted at the prices. It had been a long time since I had bought a car. Now they are sold as a monthly payment rather than outright their prices had gone up excessively it seemed to me. I decided to buy second hand instead but didn’t know how to go about it. In doing some research I found one of MMM’s car articles. I started reading the other posts and the next thing I knew it was 4am!

I didn’t get much work done the next day on an hours sleep but instead had plans to get my ten year old car to twenty, and for FI to be my most important goal. This was nearly two years ago now and I’ve had an 80%+ savings rate since that day I found the site.

I’ve reduced my car mileage from 4000 miles a year to 1000-1500. I sold all my bikes and a load of kit too. I replaced them with a steel bike at a fraction of the cost and want to keep it forever.

I do wonder what I would have done with the FIRE information if I had found it at a younger age. I was certainly ready to find it at age 40 though and was swift in taking action. Every household bill was renegotiated and I’ve knocked 20% off of my food bill. I’ve sold over 40 possessions in that time too.

I need to improve my living in the now and trying to enjoy work on a day to day basis but am grateful to all the people that have helped me on here.

[MoneyGoatee]

I hadn't heard of the FIRE movement until a few weeks ago.  But I'm a single guy who has adopted the WATER movement: Wife Avoidance Till Early Retirement.  The money I saved while being single and frugal has allowed me to retire early.  Ladies may adopt the husband-avoiding version: the HATER movement.