Author Topic: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?  (Read 6580 times)

swampwiz

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Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« on: June 02, 2018, 06:10:27 AM »
AIUI, there are a lot of folks that cycle to avoid the costs of owning car.  Obviously, cycling on streets with cars is fraught with a lot of danger:

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/06/gig-economy-death/561302

SwitchActiveDWG

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2018, 06:38:10 AM »
Where I live I won’t bike anywhere that isn’t specifically designed for biking.

spokey doke

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2018, 07:30:46 AM »
that is why I mountainbike

wenchsenior

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2018, 07:42:01 AM »
I do not and will not cycle in cities, having personally had multiple cycling enthusiast friends hit by cars.  Two were killed outright. One has been hit multiple times, and broken bones multiple times.  One was hit once and after 3 surgeries and multiple rounds of rehab, his arm finally reached about 80% functionality again.  And of course, that doesn't count the many other non serious injuries (road rashes, contusions, etc).

Board members will tell me that statistically speaking, cycling is safe and my sample is biased.  I'm not arguing that.  And my hard-core friends (including those with the non-fatal injuries listed above) continue to cycle to some extent, so I get that there are people that LOVE cycling and won't give it up even after repeated injuries.  I've just accepted that I'm not one of them. I don't love it to begin with, and I have zero desire to take up city commuting after watching the carnage in my social circle.  And I'm tiny and 'brittle'.  One good crash could seriously fuck my body up. I'm not risking it.

Perhaps in the right environment (non-city, rural bike trails) I might enjoy it for recreation.  In the meantime, I love walking.

BuildingFrugalHabits

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2018, 08:22:46 AM »
I am a mountain biker but I'm not too worried about riding on the road.  I've been riding for almost 2 decades and so far so good.  I don't bike everywhere but I bike to work, the library, the gym, the trailhead, the dentist, the doctor, the bar, to friends/parents, some local errands (occasionally) and on longer tours for recreation.  I bike 12 months a year but less frequently in winter.  I've lived in 3 states, 4 cities and at numerous addresses and my biggest issues have actually been with dogs not cars (especially true in the southern U.S.). 

What I do: ride defensively, try to anticipate the actions of cars and make eye contact when possible, wave and communicate and use lights/strobes for increased visibility.  I also, try to select routes that have less traffic and/or bike lanes.  It's pretty easy to find a good bike route from A to B and it's almost never the way that I would drive. 

That being said, I selected my current city and state based in part on cycling culture and infrastructure.  I also selected my house based on the proximity to employment and the feasibility of biking to work.  I will not live anywhere that is not bike friendly. 


DreamFIRE

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2018, 08:31:42 AM »

There were at least two recent threads where this topic came up.  I avoid biking in the city.  I live near the edge of a city and ride straight out of town and ride on low traffic roads.  It's not worth the risk riding in city traffic.

Wings5

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2018, 10:38:52 AM »
I approach it from the risk reward. I may save $8 biking to work but my family and I will lose a lot more if Johnny iPhone is texting and doesn't see me.

That doesn't mean I won't ride to work or errands. My wife and I ride bikes to our downtown area for dates, but we do take mostly dedicated bicycle lanes.

Laserjet3051

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2018, 01:28:25 PM »
Of course we are "concerned about safety from cars." Self preservation is a strong human drive. That said, road cycling danger doesn't stop me from indulging; but like most cyclists, I assess and manage risk which is manifest in where I bike, when I bike, and how I bike. That said, the 2 times I was severely injured on a bike and hospitalized were both from mountain biking accidents.

BudgetSlasher

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2018, 07:04:37 PM »
In short, yes.

I will bike on smaller streets (say 30 MPH and below) or there is a lovely trail nearby where I can bike on a dedicate path 6.5 miles each direction. There are some restaurants I love along the way; as an added bonus when I stop at one and splurge, I do not eat or drink as much when I have to get back on the bike.

In comparison my commute to work is ~9 miles each way (all one road and only one traffic light); well within the realm of being able to bike. But, it is in a 45 to 55 MPH zone. I hardly feel safe in a car, at least once a week a car will drift across the center line enough that I feel the need to adjust toward (or onto) the shoulder (no cyclist around of course). Recently they painted the road between here and 2 towns up (~3 miles); in that space and the time it takes the paint to dry drivers crossed the line 3 times on the center line and 4 on the shoulder (1 being at the end of the driveway).

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2018, 08:02:11 PM »
Of course. I ride where I am comfortable riding, and don't ride where I feel it's too risky. I won't ride on roads with a speed limit of 70km/h or above, or roads with lots of trucks.

hadabeardonce

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2018, 11:00:25 PM »
Not really.

There are clearly marked bike lanes along my entire route, so I feel alright. I've got my helmet, lights(front & rear), and high visibility stuff to help make me feel a little safer. I've had one close call with a car in ~400 miles of bike commuting and I could have been better about avoiding it(even though I was legally in the right.)

Savings is the least of all the benefits I get from biking. Each day I communte to work and back I get an hour of exercise, which I wasn't before. Muscles are kind of cool to develop and the cardio thing is nifty. I feel less stressed on the days I ride... aggressive cycling requires more effort than aggressive driving. Building my bike and selecting components was fun to do. Each day I make it in under my own power, riding a bike I built and maintained, I get a double-dose of achievement.


Now that I've started, I really try not to stop. It's a healthy habit I'd like to maintain year-round.


Related video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWhMEkMtLy0
« Last Edit: June 02, 2018, 11:31:40 PM by hadabeardonce »

TartanTallulah

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2018, 11:22:35 PM »
Yes, but not enough to keep me off my bike. In general, despite the hostile trolling of cycling spaces on the internet by car users, drivers are generally well motivated to avoid hitting cyclists, though I'm aware that a few seconds of someone else's inattention could kill me.

I respond to the concern about safety by focusing on making sure I'm highly visible and keeping my own road use responsible.

big_slacker

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2018, 08:41:54 AM »
You should be. I'm a mountain biker as well (see pic!) but I do ride my beach cruiser to school with the kids.

Cycling roadside is all about minimizing risk. I would not commute to work from where I live now. Country roads with small shoulders and 55 mph speed limit. Screw that, I wanna live.

Back in the smaller city I used to live I would commute. Mostly quite streets and bike paths, fairly safe.

I don't understand how people road ride for fun, lol!

AccidentialMustache

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2018, 10:09:20 AM »
Concerned? Yes. Stops me from biking? No. I do avoid the 40+mph roads. In general my small midwestern town has pretty good bike infrastructure so I'm generally in my own space, often not attached to the road. I will bike down the road though and if I am you can bet my giant bike is in the middle of the lane. I've had too many close calls when being passed for being a "nice" biker and the roads are in bad enough shape I'm not going to be riding the curb.

There are certainly plenty of asshats out there in cars, but I don't view it any different than if I was in my car. Situational awareness >>> any amount of "protection" via steel cage. My most recent close call with transportation-induced-death was in the car, not on the bike. Big important mustang driver decided he could squeeze through a too-small gap. Would have pushed us over the double yellow into oncoming 45mph(+) traffic. Awareness he was driving like a tool behind me meant I was ready to be evasive when he caught up to us and it mattered.

PaulMaxime

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2018, 10:50:29 AM »
I've been road biking for my entire adult life in all sorts of situations- big cities, rural, good and bad roads, lots of traffic, etc.

Narrow country roads are the most dangerous IMHO. City traffic is usually much slower than I am so it's not really concerning at all.

"Concerned" as in afraid. Not at all.

"Concerned" as in taking care to manage risk, of course. Most of this is knowing what you are doing-  be predictable to the cars and follow the rules of the road.

The one big bike accident I had did not involve a car at all. I came over a small hill and did not see the construction ditch in the road until it was too late and ended up with a concussion. I was wearing a helmet at the time.

In general I find that cars are much easier to deal with than pedestrians. That's why I always ride in the road and never on sidewalks. Being aware of your surroundings is important.

Could some car not pay attention and hit me, of course. But the same accident can happen crossing the street on foot or driving in another vehicle.

jimmyshutter

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2018, 10:58:12 AM »
I'm not a cyclist but I did rent a bike while I was in Vegas once on a vacation. It was scary riding up and down the middle of the strip but it didn't take long to get used to it and I ended up having a blast.

BlueMR2

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2018, 05:07:59 PM »
Concerned, not really, and I've even been clipped by a car once.  It's just not worth getting all excited about.  Use some common sense, keep your head on a swivel, avoid dangerous areas, and it can be fine in many areas.  Perhaps not everywhere is a great place to cycle, but fears seem to be quite overblown.

Llewellyn2006

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2018, 07:24:56 PM »
I'm not particularly concerned. All my riding is done on the road and I mitigate the risks as much as I can by making myself as visible as possible by using lights whatever time of the day it is, by assuming that every driver around me could potentially do something stupid and I try to anticipate what it might be and I keep watching what's going on around me like a hawk. It's an approach that has served me well so  far. I'm not about to let a fear of something that may or may not happen stop me from doing something I enjoy.

Timmm

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2018, 06:42:41 AM »
I work from home, but when I had a short 1.2 mile commute I was doubling it when I rode my bike to take the safest route I could find. My biking now is all for fun or errands and I still take the scenic route for all of that. Aside from safety, it's much quieter and more pleasant when I'm off busy streets.

At the risk of a thread derail, I also never wear a helmet, though I did that some in my commuting days. It's another controversial discussion, but in my case, an adult rider with safe riding skills and decisions is not at special risk. My helmet days were mostly as an example for my kids - I think helmets are sensible precautions for children. If I had to ride in traffic, I'm sure I'd wear a helmet, but there's a better chance I'd just not bike at all.

GilbertB

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2018, 07:06:59 AM »
I live in Flanders.
Unless one is not aware of the blind spots of articulated haulage trucks, then a mayonnaise overdose is more of a worry than drivers.

wenchsenior

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2018, 07:19:29 AM »
It's notable to me how many people have mentioned bike lanes.  Most cities I've lived in had very few bike lanes, and certainly not on major roads.  One city I lived in did have decent bike routes, esp downtown. 

My current city (population >300,000) does not have ANY that I know of (except for perhaps a short one through a neighborhood near the college campus).  It's just not a biking culture here... there is no civic support for it at all, people here love to drive gigantic trucks, and they have never had to share roads with bikes, which makes it that much more dangerous.

GuitarStv

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2018, 07:49:22 AM »
I cycle regularly in a pretty busy major urban center.  I ride  on the road 13 miles each way to work, and there are only a few hundred feet of bike lanes on that trip.  Safety around cars is important, and is obviously something that you need to keep in mind.  This isn't unique to riding a bike though.  Safety around cars needs to be kept in mind while walking and driving too.

On a bike I pay attention to personal safety by wearing a helmet and gloves.  I make myself more conspicuous by wearing bright clothing, and using lights and reflectors.  I cycle in traffic, and follow the rules of the road so that my actions aren't unusual or surprising to vehicles.  I signal lane changes, look well ahead while riding, take the lane when necessary, give parked vehicles on the side a wide berth to avoid being doored, and pay close attention to what drivers around me are doing.  I don't cycle on the sidewalk, as this is very dangerous (cars aren't expecting sidewalk traffic to be moving that quickly).


Obviously, cycling on streets with cars is fraught with a lot of danger.

This statement is a bit misleading.

For example, if you're a 17 to 20 year old man it's five times more dangerous to drive in a car than to cycle:  http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/1212/06122012-cycling-risk

There have also been multiple studies showing that net benefit to people who cycle regularly outweighs the net risks of cycling:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3060010/
https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/1103227r/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3395043/
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 07:52:44 AM by GuitarStv »

ISawTheLight

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2018, 08:00:19 AM »
Off topic a little bit:  I recently got a survey email asking whether I would purchase something for my bike that would make me 'visible' to the crash detection technology that is now offered in certain autos.  It was something I had never even considered, but as the technology becomes standard in new vehicles, it could be a very nice addition to my bike (or clothing, or whatever).

big_slacker

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2018, 08:06:22 AM »
In the region there was a guy going around and smacking women on the ass as they rode by.  They caught him because he walked up to a news reporter and said he was the guy.  And recently a bicyclist was killed here by a mountain lion. 

Yes, I know that incidents like these are exceedingly rare and create bias against it.

The killed by a mountain lion thing is interesting, I was only a few miles away riding that day. Hopefully it keeps more Seattle people away from the nice areas along i90. /troll

Speaking of exceedingly rare, that was the second mountain lion death in a century in WA. Talk about bad luck.

GuitarStv

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2018, 08:07:57 AM »
Off topic a little bit:  I recently got a survey email asking whether I would purchase something for my bike that would make me 'visible' to the crash detection technology that is now offered in certain autos.  It was something I had never even considered, but as the technology becomes standard in new vehicles, it could be a very nice addition to my bike (or clothing, or whatever).

I find that email rather troubling . . . because it sounds like rather than perfect the technology so that it works properly in the car being sold, what they want to do is force people to buy a device to mitigate a problem with their design.  If this design is required for their vehicles to be safe around cyclists, it should be provided to any cyclist requesting one free of charge . . . not attempt to profit from a problem that they themselves have designed.

:P

YoungGranny

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2018, 08:29:11 AM »
I was very concerned about commuting via bike before I actually tried it. The first 2.5 miles of my route I take an 'advanced pathway' aka sidewalk. I pass maybe 10 household driveways the entire time since I'm riding next to a nature preserve for most of it. I don't go in the road since it's only 2 lanes and I'm legally allowed to be on the advanced pathway. About once a week I'll pass a runner or walker and slow down to give them enough warning as I scream "on your left" since they're blasting music....anyways the next 1.5 miles of my route goes through a neighborhood - I figured if it was safe enough for 8year old YG to ride around a neighborhood it's safe enough for me. I stay in the road and if I notice anyone backing out I make eye contact or stop if they don't see me. Basically I pay enough attention so I don't get hit but I've never had a close call. The last 1 mile of my route is definitely the worst but I stay on advanced pathways again. There are ~5 business driveways I have to cross over the worst 2 being McDonalds and Starbucks. Most mornings I commute early enough that it's not a problem but if there's a lot of cars I get off and walk my bike for this ~.2 mile stretch. After that I hop back on; cross over a highway and glide into the driveway of my work.

Tldr; I modified my bike route to be much safer than the roads I drive on and I pay attention the entire ride. Overall it does more to benefit my health.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2018, 08:39:48 AM »
I don't bike to work, but my husband does.

I do always worry about him. Two years ago he was hit by a driver that ran a light to turn left (he was going through a green light).  He was very lucky that he went over the hood instead of under the car, and that his helmet really saved his head. His ankle was less lucky and he'll have pain for the rest of his life.

However, not biking doesn't really make things a lot safer.  The car behind me was rear ended at low speed, and hit me, (the dent on my bumper was miniscule)- and it was just right that it broke a vertebrae in my neck.  I've had horrible pain, headaches, and premature arthritis in my neck since.

Driving a car didn't help me.
Our accidents happened at about the same speed- the other car going about 30.   If I tell him to stop biking, he's going to tell me to stop driving.

I think you have to do what you can to stay safe, but you can get injured ANY way you travel.

canuckiwi

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2018, 09:16:11 AM »
The main risks to cyclists are from cars and trucks so, yes, it is my main concern when cycling on the road. I am comfortable around cars in the city but always wear a helmet and take bike lanes when I can. Riding on high speed roads with little or no shoulder holds no appeal, so any longer ride I do is always planned to take in mostly gravel paths, bike trails and logging roads with no traffic. Then it is just bears and mountain lions to be concerned about.

With the increase in sales of "gravel" or backroad specific bikes, and the decrease in classic road bike sales, I suspect a lot of cyclist feel similar.

Planning your route to avoid high speed traffic is the best way to mitigate the risk, with a helmet as a last line of defense. The helmet only has to save your life once (as it did for me) to make it worthwhile to wear every time you ride.

Brother Esau

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2018, 09:23:55 AM »

BuildingFrugalHabits

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2018, 09:26:18 AM »

I find that email rather troubling . . . because it sounds like rather than perfect the technology so that it works properly in the car being sold, what they want to do is force people to buy a device to mitigate a problem with their design.  If this design is required for their vehicles to be safe around cyclists, it should be provided to any cyclist requesting one free of charge . . . not attempt to profit from a problem that they themselves have designed.

:P

Yeah and hopefully the technology would be passive (no batteries to charge and maintain) and lightweight so it's not a burden to the cyclist/or pedestrian or whatever.  I don't think it's reasonable or realistic to expect all not motorized traffic to carry a device though.  You'll never see a 100% adoption rate on any technology 100% of the time. 

Brother Esau

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2018, 09:31:10 AM »
You should be. I'm a mountain biker as well (see pic!) but I do ride my beach cruiser to school with the kids.

Cycling roadside is all about minimizing risk. I would not commute to work from where I live now. Country roads with small shoulders and 55 mph speed limit. Screw that, I wanna live.

Back in the smaller city I used to live I would commute. Mostly quite streets and bike paths, fairly safe.

I don't understand how people road ride for fun, lol!

Beautiful pic! Where is this?

koshtra

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2018, 09:38:09 AM »
Of course. Cars are incredibly dangerous, by far the most dangerous things I deal with in my daily life: as a cyclist, as a pedestrian, and as a driver, I pay a LOT of attention to them. I plan my routes carefully.

As cyclist and a pedestrian, I go on the assumption that the people in cars are distracted and don't see me. Always. And I do whatever I have to do to travel safely anyway, even if it's hopping off the bike and walking it or carrying it to a safer spot. The nice thing about a bike is that you can always transform into a pedestrian if it's safer.

It takes some intelligence, patience, and skill.

Eric

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2018, 09:44:12 AM »
Everything has its dangers.  Driving is pretty dangerous too.  At least cycling is fun.  Overall, safety is not something I think about very often, but my area is very bike friendly.

dougules

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2018, 11:32:41 AM »
One thing I think that gets lost is that even if cycling isn't dangerous, a lot of times it feels dangerous and stressful.  I think that's important in and of itself.  It shouldn't be so stressful and unpleasant. 

I live in Flanders.
Unless one is not aware of the blind spots of articulated haulage trucks, then a mayonnaise overdose is more of a worry than drivers.

I'm jealous of the bike infrastructure in your part of the world. 
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 11:34:37 AM by dougules »

hudsoncat

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2018, 01:33:35 PM »
I've found most cars in my area are pretty respectful. I can't control what they do, but I can make myself and my bike as visible as possible, pay attention to my surroundings, and plan my route carefully. I know people who have been hit by cars while cycling. I also know people who have been hit by cars while running (I've been a runner longer than a cyclist). I know more who haven't had any issues. I'm not going to stop doing either because of something that might happen.

mschaus

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2018, 01:39:00 PM »
Swampwiz, I think your post was to seeking to understand why cyclists are cycling even though there are reports of dangers. My thoughts on that:

Safety is a of course a consideration which is why it is important to choose routes that make sense, since most of the time busy streets can be avoided. People ride bikes not just because it is a pure monetary decision (each trip saves $x), but because there are a suite of benefits that permeate your whole life. And I’m not talking about needing to sell all your cars, just simply replacing the occasional trip to the park/grocery store/work/etc with a bike is all it takes to start seeing benefits. You’ll start to approach healthy levels of exercise, re-think what reasonable distances are for daily activities (this is actually a huge win for safety), skip the trip to the doctor for vitamin D deficiency, meet your neighbors, and spend more quality time with your family while setting a good example for them. Plus save money and the environment to boot.

For the record, I’ve put my money where my mouth is and moved across the country for a new job and specifically eliminated car commuting in the process.

See also from the MMM blog:
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/05/07/what-do-you-mean-you-dont-have-a-bike/
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/06/the-true-cost-of-commuting/
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/06/08/bike-to-work-houston/

Other posters – thanks for your stories of positivity, finding good routes to work, and the benefits of riding. Ride safe!

NoraLenderbee

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2018, 01:59:00 PM »

"Concerned" as in afraid. Not at all.

"Concerned" as in taking care to manage risk, of course. Most of this is knowing what you are doing-  be predictable to the cars and follow the rules of the road.


This, 100%.

robartsd

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2018, 02:24:03 PM »
AIUI, there are a lot of folks that cycle to avoid the costs of owning car.  Obviously, cycling on streets with cars is fraught with a lot of danger:

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/06/gig-economy-death/561302
Subtitle: An SUV killed Pablo Avendano as he picked up jobs for the food-delivering app Caviar. Who is responsible?

It's telling about our society's attitude towards transportation cycling that the driver's responsibility is not discussed at all in the article. All the article says about the collision is:
Quote
The evening of Saturday, May 12, the clouds had burst, pouring down rain, so people were ordering in. Avendano decided to deliver some food through Caviar to make some extra cash. He was riding his bike down Spring Garden Street, which divides Center City and the northern neighborhoods, when a Mitsubishi SUV struck and killed him.

Arbitrage

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2018, 04:54:11 PM »
My impression is that, while cycling might be more dangerous than driving on a per-mile basis (ignoring health and financial arguments), the general perception of danger seems far greater than reality.  Most of the time I mention biking in greater Los Angeles, I get incredulous looks and responses, "Isn't that dangerous?"  I shared that perception before I started doing it more frequently, and the first few times I rode on higher-traffic roads, I was quite uncomfortable.  However, I learned quickly with experience; a lot of this is in learning how to treat cars/drivers, asserting yourself when need be, being very visible, following the laws, wearing proper gear, assuming that all drivers are distracted, etc. 

Being a pedestrian is actually extremely dangerous here, by any measure (far more pedestrian traffic deaths than bicycling).  Why don't people get aghast at the danger when you say you're going for a quick walk?  Distracted walking is a thing; distracted cycling (with few exceptions) isn't. 

BuildingFrugalHabits

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2018, 05:50:25 PM »
Swampwiz, I think your post was to seeking to understand why cyclists are cycling even though there are reports of dangers. My thoughts on that:

Safety is a of course a consideration which is why it is important to choose routes that make sense, since most of the time busy streets can be avoided. People ride bikes not just because it is a pure monetary decision (each trip saves $x), but because there are a suite of benefits that permeate your whole life. And I’m not talking about needing to sell all your cars, just simply replacing the occasional trip to the park/grocery store/work/etc with a bike is all it takes to start seeing benefits. You’ll start to approach healthy levels of exercise, re-think what reasonable distances are for daily activities (this is actually a huge win for safety), skip the trip to the doctor for vitamin D deficiency, meet your neighbors, and spend more quality time with your family while setting a good example for them. Plus save money and the environment to boot.

For the record, I’ve put my money where my mouth is and moved across the country for a new job and specifically eliminated car commuting in the process.

See also from the MMM blog:
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/05/07/what-do-you-mean-you-dont-have-a-bike/
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/06/the-true-cost-of-commuting/
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017/06/08/bike-to-work-houston/

Other posters – thanks for your stories of positivity, finding good routes to work, and the benefits of riding. Ride safe!

Congrats on making a positive lifestyle adjustment.  I find that my bike commute is usually one of the most enjoyable parts of my workday.  However, as bike friendly we are, I'm lucky if I see more than 1 or 2 other riders each direction so people are missing out on all those benefits! Even on "bike to work day" I don't see more than 10.  Imagine what it would be like if 50% of all trips were made by bike.  I'd love to love in Denmark or someplace similar just to experience what it's like to have a bicycle be the default mode of transportation.   

PDXTabs

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2018, 07:19:40 PM »
I worry, but I also worry about driving. There are less than 1000 cyclists killed per year in the US. There are ~500,000 diet/lifestyle related deaths. Also, while the rate of deaths for cyclists is 2.5x that of cars per vehicle, I drive a lot more miles, so I'm still more likely to die in my car.

EDITed to add: honestly, I use my skateboard more than my bike at this point, because if it's less than 2 miles I just grab that.

TrMama

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2018, 11:10:30 PM »
Off topic a little bit:  I recently got a survey email asking whether I would purchase something for my bike that would make me 'visible' to the crash detection technology that is now offered in certain autos.  It was something I had never even considered, but as the technology becomes standard in new vehicles, it could be a very nice addition to my bike (or clothing, or whatever).

That sounds like a scam.

I own one of those cars and it "sees" cyclists just fine. You don't need to wear anything specific.

jpdx

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2018, 11:58:50 PM »
In many parts of the US I would be concerned, but here in Portland we have some really great bicycle infrastructure, and people driving cars are more accustomed to sharing the space with people on bikes. Last week I rode from my house to downtown and a large portion of that that trip was on protected bike lanes, including a new bridge that is for bikes/peds/transit only. So I think the infrastructure of the location largely determines the level of safety.

Cranky

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #43 on: June 05, 2018, 04:09:24 AM »
There are no bike lanes in my area, and I don’t see very many people on bikes, honestly. (Plus we have a lot of bad weather.) People who ride bikes put them in a car and drive to a trail, so it’s fun and exercise, but not saving any money.

I’m a lifelong pedestrian and drivers really, really aren’t paying attention, much more so than even 10 years ago. I am much more careful walking than I used to be. I don’t even assume drivers will stop at a red light, because increasingly they don’t.

runbikerun

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #44 on: June 05, 2018, 04:25:29 AM »
I live in Flanders.

You lucky, lucky bastard. I got to spend a couple of days riding around Flanders in 2016, and am still considering learning Flemish in order to retire there and spend my days hammering up and down the hellingen...

BlueMR2

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #45 on: June 05, 2018, 08:46:20 AM »
Speaking of exceedingly rare, that was the second mountain lion death in a century in WA. Talk about bad luck.

I live in a place where there are basically no natural predators of humans (except for other humans),  but recently a Cougar was spotted just a few miles from my house.  A bit unsettling.

robartsd

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #46 on: June 05, 2018, 09:06:17 AM »
Congrats on making a positive lifestyle adjustment.  I find that my bike commute is usually one of the most enjoyable parts of my workday.  However, as bike friendly we are, I'm lucky if I see more than 1 or 2 other riders each direction so people are missing out on all those benefits! Even on "bike to work day" I don't see more than 10.  Imagine what it would be like if 50% of all trips were made by bike.  I'd love to love in Denmark or someplace similar just to experience what it's like to have a bicycle be the default mode of transportation.
I agree that a bike commute can be the best part of a workday. I'm fortunate enough to be in a relatively flat city with mild weather, so some commuting routes with good infrastructure see many cycle commuters year round; but cycle commuting is still unusual enough that most non-cyclists (and some cyclists) still overstate the dangers.

Driver attitudes can be a problem. I've been honked at twice in the past month for controlling a traffic lane to avoid a hazard on the shoulder (multiple lanes in my travel direction were available). I didn't swerve into traffic; I scanned, signaled, and made a lane change well ahead of traffic approaching from the rear. One driver buzzed by me only partially changing into the next lane. I passed the vehicle less than a block later is they waited behind several other vehicles at a stop sign - of course I reached the stop sign, quickly turned right and never saw them again. On a recent group ride an urban cycling instructor re-framed drivers honking at cyclists, "at least you know they saw you."

Zikoris

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2018, 09:40:23 AM »
Not me. I've been cycling in the city for 10+ years without issues. But I do things a bit differently than a lot of cyclists - I'm hyper-aware of my surroundings, and generally err on the side of caution by assuming drivers do not see me unless we've made eye contact. I also use lights, reflectors, and not-black clothing if I'm riding after sundown.

Basically, if you just assume every person on the road is a shit driver and ride accordingly, you'll probably be okay.

koshtra

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #48 on: June 05, 2018, 10:42:31 AM »
Not me. I've been cycling in the city for 10+ years without issues. But I do things a bit differently than a lot of cyclists - I'm hyper-aware of my surroundings, and generally err on the side of caution by assuming drivers do not see me unless we've made eye contact. I also use lights, reflectors, and not-black clothing if I'm riding after sundown.

Basically, if you just assume every person on the road is a shit driver and ride accordingly, you'll probably be okay.

Yeah, I really appreciate the work of cyclists who get out there and take their full right to the road -- they make it a lot better for the rest of us. But I have a vested interest in staying alive.

dude

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Re: Are the cyclists here concerned about safety from cars?
« Reply #49 on: June 05, 2018, 11:58:47 AM »
As others have said, yep, I'm concerned, but I do it anyway. For some places I bike to, I do so because it's much faster than driving.  Traffic is horrendous @6pm, the usual time I go to the climbing gym or jiu jitsu.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!