Are orthodontics worth it?

[KBecks2]

I am facing a large decision about whether to have my oldest child have orthodontics.  Our dentist is recommending orthodontics for all three of my children.

The issue they have is over jet, where the front teeth are further ahead of the lower teeth.  It is most pronounced in my oldest child, whose lower jaw is definitely weak and the space between front and lower teeth is more noticeable / awkward.

The treatment for this is 3 years of braces -- 1 year of Herbst appliance with partial braces, 1 year of braces and 1 year of retainer.
The cost is $6,000 -- $1,000 covered by insurance, then the rest paid by us.

Neither my husband or I had braces. I have an over jet that is more noticeable and he has a slight one.  I don't think that dentists used to recommend any treatment for over jet.  The cited benefit is more even wear on the teeth over a lifetime.  I am 45 and my teeth are getting worn down, but they are so far not that bad that I have problems.  I have a night guard which cost $400.  I grind/clench at night and I have had some crowns but nothing really bad has happened to my teeth.  I don't know if things will get bad when I'm 60, 70 or 80, but so far I have not been harmed by not having braces.

I thought the braces might improve my son's profile but the orthodontist's staff person said it is only being moved by millimeters and it won't affect his face shape that much.

I am not sure I am comfortable with the orthodontist we have been consulting with.  Our appointments have been very brief and for questions the treatment advisor has talked to me about my questions, when I asked to talk to the orthodontist, she said she would handle the questions, but I sort of want to hear a specific prognosis for my child before making a big commitment to this. I have barely talked to the orthodontist and because this is unfamiliar, a big commitment and, freaking me out, I would have liked to have more access.

Please tell me about your orthodontic experiences.  My oldest may benefit the most, as his jaw is the most noticeable.  For all three kids we're talking $18,000 of costs! 

Of course I want to give my kids proper care.  I am financially shy about doing this and also concerned about the pain and the proposed benefit -- will my child really be helped at all?? 

Thanks for any insights and advice. 

[Bracken_Joy]

For what it's worth, I am glad I had braces. I had them for 5 years, heavy rubber bands, nighttime headgear, etc. It cost $8,500 all told and I had them on from 1999-2004ish. I had an overbite (not sure if that's the same thing?) and I am so glad it was fixed. It wasn't until after it was fixed we realized how asymetric my jaw strength was- I couldn't bite anything apart with my front teeth, so I used the side, and favored the right. The change resulted in my musculature of my jaw looking much more even- to be fair, this coincided with puberty, but there you go. It was very much ugly duckling/swan type deal.

That being said, HAVING braces really sucks. Especially if you do sports.

I would say consider getting another ortho's opinion if you feel like you're not getting the discussion you need.

[KBecks2]

The other thing I am worrying about is how much choice my son should have in the decision. He would prefer not to have braces.

[reddityeah]

absolutely worth it

[Dicey]

I had braces as an adult and it was totally worth it. DH just got his braces off and his teeth look wonderful! I'm assuming that an over "jet" is what is called an over "bite" in the US. The condition is also called buck teeth.

My suggestion is that you consult with several orthodontists. (I thought mine were quite reasonable and DH's were highway robbery. We each chose our own orthodontists and had very different experiences.) I would keep looking until you find someone who offers a treatment program that makes sense to you. I'd also look for someone who offers a discount for multiple kids. Consider batching the children's treatments if possible, since there will be a lot of trips to the orthodontist's office. Bonus points for someone close to home or school so the kids can walk to their own appointments.

I would also discuss this very seriously with your children. I can't tell you how many times I was surprised when someone told me that they had worn braces and their teeth were a mess. If you don't wear your retainer, the straightening doesn't hold, so it's important that each kid is invested in a positive outcome. Yup, that generally means wearing your retainers for years and years and years, plus paying for lost or broken ones. If your kids don't co-operate and follow through then yes, you would be throwing your money away.

I was able to negotiate a discount by paying the entire amount up front so there was no insurance or billing involved. By the time DH had his braces, our insurance covered a chunk of it, so pre-paying was not an option. Be sure final X-rays and the first set of retainers are included in the price quoted. Ask me how I know.

Yes, it's expensive, but also worth it, if the need is sufficient. My sister did not do it (possibly because she had mega-braces including two surgeries) and her kid's teeth don't look very nice. I keep my opinions to myself (except here, of course), but I feel for him. He's in college now. Should he decide on his own to get braces as an adult, he's going to get a surprise check from me to help defray the cost.

Good luck, whatever you decide. I hope this helps.

[TrulyStashin]

Your son should have no say in this.  He doesn't have the cognitive ability to accurately judge the merits.

I have 3 kids (now 26, 24, 18). Two of the three needed and got braces.  We used the local medical school -- Virginia Commonwealth University has an outstanding med school, including dentistry and orthodontia.  It was several thousand dollars cheaper than a private orthodontist, and they offered interest-free payment plans with only $500 down.   Both kids got very high quality care and it cost me $4k instead of $6k.  Yes, they took insurance too.  So, this is an option if you have a school near you.

But checking with several ortho's is a good idea.

If there are medical/ structural reasons to do it, then it goes without saying that you should do it.  Your experience is only that... yours.

Also, FWIW, it's maybe unfair, but appearance counts and in the U.S., having teeth that are not flattering could be a real hindrance.

[lbmustache]

^^^ Agree that appearance does matter.

My teeth were horribly crooked but my jaw was okay (only needed rubber bands for a few months). Total buck teeth, gaps, snaggle tooth. My parents decided to "only" pay for 2 years of braces when I was in high school. My teeth are straight, my bite is fine, and I have a permanent retainer on my lower teeth. I'm sure the orthodontist would've have liked to keep me in braces for 1-2 more years to make sure everything was 100%, but I honestly notice zero difference. Hope that helps a bit.

[green daisy]

An overjet is when your upper teeth project too far past your lower teeth.  And overbite is when your upper teeth cover too much of your lower teeth when your teeth are closed.  They are two different things but the terms are frequently incorrectly interchanged. 

IMO, it depends on how severe the overjet is and if that's the only issue.  If it's only over by a millimeter or 2, it's less essential.  If it's more than that, I would do it.  But I'm a dental hygienist, so I think I value a perfect smile more than others might.  Aside from cosmetic issues, if the overjet is more severe so that he is walking around with his lips open and his teeth exposed, he's more likely to fracture his front teeth in a fall or a sports accident. 

I have 2 children and both will need braces.  My son will likely need 2 phases because he has a cross bite.

I would recommend a second opinion.  It's weird that an office staff member is answering questions that should be answered by the doctor.  I can't imagine telling a patient that I will answer the risks/benefits of a recommended treatment while not allowing access to the doctor.  I used to work for an orthodontist.  Before they started treatment, they took records which consisted of special X-rays, photos and molds of the teeth.  Then the doctor would have a consultation with the parents where he laid out the treatment plan and all questions were answered.  Then the office manager would discuss fees and a payment plan for treatment.  We could give a ball park figure prior to going through with the records appointment. 

[matchewed]

Strongly disagree with the thought that the child shouldn't have a say in it. And from my point of view while appearances may matter, confidence and dressing halfway well matter more. Your child can grow up and be fine either way; with or without orthodontics.

[okits]

Also, FWIW, it's maybe unfair, but appearance counts and in the U.S., having teeth that are not flattering could be a real hindrance.

I feel gross saying this, but straight teeth and a nice smile have become markers of economic class (your parents could afford braces for you.)  You have to decide what it's worth to you to keep that door open for your kids.  They may never pursue careers, relationships, or other endeavours where it matters that they fit in with affluent/wealthy people.  But they'd have to have very alternative mindsets and lives to never have any contact with superficial and class-conscious attitudes.  Of course, a major consideration is if the financial costs are manageable for you.  You dance around it very gracefully but I'll come out and say that I don't think you're doing a disservice to your children in any way if you make a thoughtful, considered decision against braces.  I do think getting more than one orthodontist's opinion is a good idea.

For me, I had braces (even with great benefits my parents were still thousands of dollars out of pocket).  I still have numerous faults with my teeth (alignment, grinding) but braces brought about major, major improvements.  During the years you wear them they're not fun, but I think they were totally worth the time, trouble, and money.  I would do it again.

[matchewed]

Also, FWIW, it's maybe unfair, but appearance counts and in the U.S., having teeth that are not flattering could be a real hindrance.

I feel gross saying this, but straight teeth and a nice smile become markers of economic class (your parents could afford braces for you.) 

So don't say it and perpetuate shitty views?

[Bracken_Joy]

An overjet is when your upper teeth project too far past your lower teeth.  And overbite is when your upper teeth cover too much of your lower teeth when your teeth are closed.  They are two different things but the terms are frequently incorrectly interchanged. 

Ah, so I had both. And a gap between my teeth. Lovely.

I do think where you live affects it. Had I not had my teeth fixed, I would have been one of relatively few people in my school with bad teeth. It's just the norm here if you can at all afford it. YMMV depending on where you live though.

[matchewed]

Also, FWIW, it's maybe unfair, but appearance counts and in the U.S., having teeth that are not flattering could be a real hindrance.

I feel gross saying this, but straight teeth and a nice smile become markers of economic class (your parents could afford braces for you.) 

So don't say it and perpetuate shitty views?

Yes, pretending something doesn't exist makes it go away. That's how I fixed my student loan debt!

You know that's not what I said.

[ysette9]

I agree with others that while it might not sound nice to say it, having straight teeth is something that is expected when you are an educated, middle class adult. I had dreadful teeth and am REALLY glad that my parents made me get braces though I was too young at the time to realize or care what the problem was. I am very fortunate that I had my braces early because I had to go through significant work that would have otherwise taken much longer and been more painful had they waited. Also, they got my teeth fixed before I grew old enough to be self-aware and develop a complex.

My husband never had braces but as an adult the misalignment was exacerbating the wear on his already-fragile teeth. He ended up getting braces to straighten his teeth sufficiently for subsequent dental work to allow him to, as one dentist put it, still have his teeth by the time he reaches 40 years old.

He didn't place a value on braces prior to having them himself but after getting them, he now appreciates it more and notices when others don't have straight teeth. It's like me never noticing how many VW Golfs were on the road until I bought one myself. :)

Bottom line: Get the braces now while it is relatively fast and easy. Waiting until your kids are older (adult) will only make the whole thing more painful and take longer.

[cpa cat]

I had relatively straight-looking teeth, and no one ever said anything about them when I lived in Canada. As soon as I moved to the  USA, my dentists started recommending braces for overcrowding. They said the primary benefit would be fewer cavities.

I thought it was BS at first - but eventually succumbed, because multiple different dentists recommended it independently of each other. And to be honest, I haven't had a cavity since and the couple of crooked teeth look great now. I am glad I did it.

I've known many adults who had braces as children/youths and then had to get braces again as adults. So I'm on the fence about doing minor improvements for teenagers. Then again - I'm not an orthodontist, so I barely know what I'm talking about.

[matchewed]

Also, FWIW, it's maybe unfair, but appearance counts and in the U.S., having teeth that are not flattering could be a real hindrance.

I feel gross saying this, but straight teeth and a nice smile become markers of economic class (your parents could afford braces for you.) 

So don't say it and perpetuate shitty views?

Yes, pretending something doesn't exist makes it go away. That's how I fixed my student loan debt!

You know that's not what I said.

You said it's perpetuating shitty views to say that straight teeth have become a class signifier. Saying this isn't perpetuating shitty views any more than saying speaking with an Appalachian accent is a class signifier in many circles. Pretending these aren't so helps nobody. How other people would perceive my daughter would definitely be a point of consideration when weighing cosmetic orthodontia and I don't see why the OP shouldn't weigh it as well.

Perpetuating it doesn't make it go away. Letting people become successful regardless of how straight their teeth are does make it go away. So if you advocate a shallow society with shitty views of looks you're just throwing your hands up saying "Well it's just the way the world works." That is a bullshit cop out, one that has been used in many ways of judging people by outward appearance whether they're fat or not the right skin color or not the right sex. Fuck that.

[Dicey]

Careful, matchewed. Your heat may be melting the ice beneath your feet... There is much that is not fair in this world. Discussing it is no crime.

[matchewed]

Shitty false equivalency. You're not born in a business suit.

[KBecks2]

My oldest son's teeth have the most noticeable over jet-- I am not sure how many mm but it's obvious.  The younger boys have a little but not much and their teeth are straight.  I guess it's a matter of presentable teeth or perfect teeth.  And I think it's about upper class, we are easily ahead of average financially, but socially we are laid back people, I'm not vain.  I'm not manicured and all that. I can't imagine my mind my kids not getting hired for teeth, but I am idealistic. 

It seems most are for it.  I will keep thinking it through and likely talk to another ortho to see if I can feel more at ease with it.

[Jakejake]

I had buck teeth as a kid. Fellow tongue thruster here!

Instead of giving me braces, my dentist had me do physical therapy to move my teeth back into alignment. I've never met another person who had that option, but it worked. I had exercises for practicing keeping my tongue in the correct position, but then another set to move my teeth. For those, I had a pink blob that was shaped to go in front of my teeth, inside my lips, and it had a handle. I had to put it in my mouth and tug on it for a few minutes each night, which I did while watching tv. At the dentist visits, he would put something like a button on a string in my mouth, again in front of my teeth, and it was attached to a pressure gauge. He would check my progress by how hard could he pull before my lips would give out and the button would come out of my mouth.

The idea was to strengthen my lip muscles, especially the upper lip, so that by smiling the muscles themselves would act as my braces.

[Basenji]

^ That's epic. Or a Penthouse forum letter. Either way, very interesting. I've never heard of moving teeth without braces.

[HappierAtHome]

If your son is so against this that he won't wear his retainer after the braces come off, the teeth will shift back anyway. Personally I would only pay for a kid's braces if they were committed to wearing the retainer and following all other instructions for the braces. Don't forget that he will become more concerned with his physical appearance as he gets older, and might find that he does want braces when he realises that his teeth don't look like all the other kids'. I'm sure braces would still be an option at that point.

I just finished up adult braces this year, and yeah, it does make a real difference to how people treat you if you have crooked teeth. I have a colleague with crooked teeth - about as bad as mine were before braces - and just in the last month or so two different people have asked me if she grew up poor "because she should have fixed her teeth"*. Do I think this is fair? No. Is it the current state of our society? Yes. If your kid is opposed to braces now and doesn't change his mind while he's still young enough for the costs to be your problem, he can always choose to get them as an adult.

*To be fair we're a bit teeth-obsessed at my work, as we have an unusually high number of people who have braces or have recently had them.

[cburton103]

Dentist here (just a year out, the debt load was what encouraged me to look into frugal/reasonable living and find MMM). I do very limited orthodontics (mostly esthetic changes), but I worked for three orthodontists before dental school.

Here's my take. If your kid's overjet is sufficient enough to notice, it's almost definitely over 4 mm. When you get to and exceed this level of overjet, it's actually much more difficult to chew properly, which will have a significant impact on the types of food your son chooses to eat through his life. Generally people with less effective chewing will choose softer, more processed foods in lieu of healthier, more fibrous options like fruits and vegetables. In my opinion, that alone is worth the cost. But of course, this is dependent on his particular amount of overjet.

Correcting significant overjet can really improve your son's profile (view from the side) as well as facial fullness, which can make a major difference in terms of esthetics. Different orthodontists go about this differently depending on the severity of the case, the cause of the discrepancy (primarily a tooth problem vs primarily a skeletal problem), etc. So you may want to check with the orthodontist to see if it's likely going to be just rubber bands for the last few months, or if there may be surgery involved as well.

I doubt future dental costs saved are frequently enough to make up for the initial outlay of cash (especially if those little green employees would have been working for you instead), but I can tell you that it's MUCH easier to get a good result with a filling, crown, cleaning or anything else with a patient with straight teeth.

Those are my two cents, hope it helps a bit.

[Goldielocks]

OK, I have to respond...  You did not say the age of your kids, but my daughter also had a Herbst appliance.   Very Frankenstein!!!

There are two type of ortho, jaw corrections and teeth alignment.  Less than 20% of kids need jaw correction...maybe 10%?   I had a friend that in the old days did not have work done ( also lived in England until he was 10) and then as a teenager had horrible jaw pain and bite problems that he had his jaw broken to reset it.


Herbst appliance is for matching the jaw bite, not for buck ( protruding teeth)
My daughter had a full tooth offset and weakish chin, which you did not notice young, as all young kids tend to have small chins.
She stared at about age 7 with ortho.  Three years of jaw correction and it was very uncomfortable for the first few months.  Then pause...with retainer only for a year and a half..

Then the second ortho.. Know this, 90% or more kids that have the first phase go on for the more cosmetic teeth alignment second phase, which is another ( optional ) $6-7k.!!!  The second phase can't start until permanent teeth are in after age 11.

Herbst appliance for a significant reason ( jaw offset) is very worth it. You need a second opinion, though, and be wary of the seven more years of ortho this could be the start of.

We were told that Herbst start young so the jaw bones are still growing... But if your kid is at least 10, maybe the adult teeth will already be in for the braces phase.  The advantage of Herbst is that you can't remove it, lose it or forget it at a friends house.  If you keep you mouth closed it is hidden.

I would absolutely repeat the first phase of ortho ( jaw) again.  Better than education funding IMO.  But, Like a car payment, we were ecstatic that the payment disappeared... And once you have spent the first $6k, my dh said might as well go all the way.  She is 15 now and teeth are staying in place with occasional night retainer.  And no, she typically refused rubber bands during treatment.

And this is one reason we contributed so little to retirement in those years. 

[KBecks2]

My so. Is almost 11 and we have see. This Otto since age 8 and they have said to wait until now. I'm going to be pissed if this was a mistake to wait. They want to do it all in 3 years, it sounds like they are one size fits all and they have not described a projected outcome very well.

[matchewed]

Careful, matchewed. Your heat may be melting the ice beneath your feet... There is much that is not fair in this world. Discussing it is no crime.

I'm not trying not to discuss it, nor shout down the discussion. Pithy little phrases don't change my point.

[matchewed]

I'm not trying not to discuss it, nor shout down the discussion. Pithy little phrases don't change my point.

I think what DianeC meant is the way you write comes across as harshly chastising and, in effect, is shouting down a person, which is offputting and works counter to your intentions. Even people who are sympathetic to your idea feel an irrational urge to wind you up by being contrary.

And still has nothing to do with what I've said. You guys may not appreciate the tone but have had little to nothing to say about the content.

[KBecks2]

I'm not trying not to discuss it, nor shout down the discussion. Pithy little phrases don't change my point.

I think what DianeC meant is the way you write comes across as harshly chastising and, in effect, is shouting down a person, which is offputting and works counter to your intentions. Even people who are sympathetic to your idea feel an irrational urge to wind you up by being contrary.

Guys, can we skip the argument and stick to talking about the topic, this big decision for my kids?? Thanks so much.

[Pigeon]

It is going to depend entirely on the extent of the problem.  I wouldn't worry if the kid's teeth aren't textbook perfect, but I would go for treatment if the teeth were noticeably crooked or had serious overjet.

I would totally get a couple of additional opinions and ask for all the options.  My sister had a kid with very wonky teeth.  She took him for six different opinions, which ranged from Invisalign braces for two years to breaking his jaw and extended treatment.  He did two years of braces and his teeth were great.  They have since moved slightly out of place because, like most people, he doesn't wear his retainer afterward as much as he's supposed to.

My oldest had a problem with a single tooth that was coming in at a bad angle because she still had a baby tooth in place.  Dh went to the first consult.  Ortho recommended braces for two to three years, $8-9K.   Dh asked no questions.

I took her to a second consult. The ortho gave the same opinion.  I asked if there were other options.  Ortho hemmed and hawed, and said she had a slight overbite that needed correcting all over.  He showed me her x-rays superimposed over the theoretical "perfect teeth."  He had a hard time pointing out anywhere where there was any appreciable deviation, other than the one tooth.

He came up with Plan B.  Pull the baby tooth and expose the adult tooth that was coming in crooked. Make a small appliance to pull the new tooth into position.  Estimated $1500 and a year to fix.

We went with Plan B.  It did cost $1500, but the tooth came into position perfectly in six months and she got the appliance off.

His long-time assistant turned out to be the sister of a high school friend of mine.  When he left the room, she told me I'd made the right decision and that they pretty much always try to get people to agree to the full fig treatment, no matter the issue.

[asiljoy]

I'd go get a second opinion. It sounds like you aren't super comfortable with this guy and if you do choose to go with this treatment, you're going to be seeing a whole lot more of him.

Besides, my rule of thumb for large purchases is to get at least 3 estimates. This is nothing if not a big purchase.

[Valencia de Valera]

I had braces basically for purely cosmetic reasons (that is, I didn't have any jaw issues or serious bite problems to correct). My face was sore for the first few days after getting them put on, and then again each time they were adjusted, but I ate soft food and took OTC painkillers (the first time only) and it was fine. I would say it was totally worth it, but of course I wasn't the one paying the bills. It sounds shallow, but I was very self-conscious about my teeth (one of my front teeth was substantially farther forward than any of the others, along with a number of other less-visible issues), to the point that I wouldn't smile in pictures when I was 13-14. It is very important to wear your retainers to keep your teeth in perfect alignment, so if you think your son wouldn't do this, you could be wasting your money. However my husband had braces for bite issues and only wore his retainers for about a year afterward, and doesn't have any noticeable problems with his teeth (at least to the untrained eye).

I'm also wondering why your son doesn't want them. Is he afraid they'll hurt? What others will say? Or just doesn't want the inconvenience? Depending on the reason he could be easy to reassure by a dentist with a good bed-side manner, or other people who've had braces. Otherwise, you are the parent and it's your job to make sure your kids do the things they need to do regardless of whether they want to do them. I would ask the orthodontist (preferably a different one who will actually answer your questions) what the long-term consequences could be if you don't get them. From what I've heard braces could actually be cheaper and less painful than a series of crowns or other treatments later in life, and you have the added benefit of your teeth looking nice in the meantime if that's something you care about.

[MrGreen]

I would check out a couple orthodontists. I had braces when I was 17 or so to correct some teeth alignment issues. Personally I'm glad it was done. The first orthodontist my mother took me to quoted $4,000. We walked out of there knowing that wasn't going to happen. The second ortho quoted $1,500 or so but I had a really bad feeling about the place (it creeped me out) and told my mother I really didn't want to go there. The third ortho we saw quoted $2,500 and that's where I had the work done. As you can see that was a pretty broad range of prices, and my braces work was pretty simple as braces go. It was 15 months or so on both top and bottom teeth and a retainer after that. You may find shopping around nets some much more comfortable figures.

[I'm a red panda]

In my mind, 100% worth it.  If you are in a position that you can plan for retirement, you can save for braces. I would delay FIRE to provide my children straight teeth and avoidance of the stigma that poor teeth comes with.

Keep in mind braces are not necessarily a permanent solution.  If you are spending so much money- wear the retainers afterwards!  (And suggest the child not pick glow in the dark... after 30 your wife will make fun of you every night you wear them...)

I had braces for 5 years- my teeth were awful and took a long time to fix.  I only wore the retainers for 3 years after getting them off.  Now, 15 years later, my teeth are shifting again, and I will probably need them to be fixed in another 5-10 years. 

My husband (who I do mock for the glow in the dark retainers) still wears his retainers twice a week. His teeth still look fabulous. (Though I think based on the fact he only had braces for 2 years, he just had easier teeth to deal with.)

[jackiechiles2]

I'm not trying not to discuss it, nor shout down the discussion. Pithy little phrases don't change my point.

I think what DianeC meant is the way you write comes across as harshly chastising and, in effect, is shouting down a person, which is offputting and works counter to your intentions. Even people who are sympathetic to your idea feel an irrational urge to wind you up by being contrary.

And still has nothing to do with what I've said. You guys may not appreciate the tone but have had little to nothing to say about the content.

Your content is that people should sentence their children to a lifetime of social stigma in the name of trying to change a culture that values straight teeth.

[jackiechiles2]

I'm not trying not to discuss it, nor shout down the discussion. Pithy little phrases don't change my point.

I think what DianeC meant is the way you write comes across as harshly chastising and, in effect, is shouting down a person, which is offputting and works counter to your intentions. Even people who are sympathetic to your idea feel an irrational urge to wind you up by being contrary.

Guys, can we skip the argument and stick to talking about the topic, this big decision for my kids?? Thanks so much.

Get the braces.  Straight teeth can make your children appear more attractive and, therefore, help them throughout their life.   People like straight teeth, plain and simple.

[Dicey]

My husband (who I do mock for the glow in the dark retainers) still wears his retainers twice a week.

I had to get a crown and "forgot" to have my retainers adjusted until they wouldn't fit any more. When I ordered new ones (sigh), I chose the glow in the dark option. I figured if I could see them on the counter, they weren't where they were supposed to be. My very funny husband calls them mood lighting.

[2lazy2retire]

Aah the Americans and their teeth, a friend of mine whose teeth IMO are fine if not perfectly straight recently received a comment that she had European teeth :).

Watched a BBC program recently on dental care in general and it got on to teeth whitening products and their effectiveness, they tried different products and had a colour chart showing the shade improvement after different treatments, in addition for comparison purposes the had a second super white chart, when asked about those the associate said it was the "American Chart" - apparently the products used in the US create a shade more white than what exists naturally and the levels of peroxide required are banned in the EU.

[Jakejake]

I did some googling and found an actual term for what I went through: myofunctional therapy. A couple links - this first one one mentions the button on a string:

http://myofunctionaltherapy.blogspot.com/2012/06/orofacial-muscle-re-education.html
http://www.earlyorthodontics.com/orofacial-myology/

I know it sounds all new-agey, but I went through this in the late 60's, early 70s. It successfully addressed the cause of the misalignment and fixed it, sort of like avoiding nitrates if they cause headaches instead of taking excedrin daily.

[ooeei]

The other thing I am worrying about is how much choice my son should have in the decision. He would prefer not to have braces.

I didn't want braces in elementary/high school either, and my parents went along with it.  I ended up deciding I wanted them in college, and had them for 2 1/2 years.  The ortho said if I'd gotten them when I was younger they would've been able to do a better job.  The ortho wanted to break my cheekbones to expand the upper jaw (could've been solved without surgery when younger apparently), and I refused.  I still got the braces and now my teeth look fine, although not perfect to an ortho/dentist probably.  In hindsight I wish my parents would've made me get them in elementary/high school.

At the time I was just focused on not having braces that looked bad, and didn't care that my teeth were crooked.  Braces were a "nerdy" thing, and thus were to be avoided at all costs.  I definitely wasn't thinking long term at the time, which is to be expected from a high school/elementary kid.

For what it's worth, I've never talked to anyone who says they wish their parents hadn't made them get braces, but I've talked to plenty who wish they had.  Now it may be that there are some people out there who really regret their high school braces and just don't tell anyone, but it's something to consider. 

[Sibley]

My lower jaw was too far back, which affected my appearance but more importantly affected the long-term functionality of my mouth. This runs in the family. My mom and cousin had to have jaw surgery (they broke teeth by sneezing). I didn't have braces, but had basically top and bottom retainers that fit together in such a way that they pulled my lower jaw forward. It corrected it enough so that further work wasn't necessary.

For the record, I absolutely hated it at the time. But now I'm glad we fixed it, otherwise I'd have had jaw surgery by now.

If you don't like the doctor, find another one. But if there's a real problem or will be a problem in the future, then yes, you need to get it corrected.

[TrulyStashin]

When I commented that your son should have no say in whether to get braces, I was operating off the assumption that he was in his early teens -- 13 or 14. 

Now that I know he's 11, I renew my opinion that he should not have a say in this.  An 11 year old just doesn't have the cognitive maturity to make this kind of decision.  It's the equivalent of asking a toddler to climb a ladder.

This is an adult decision (and one that you are even struggling with enough to post here) and I hope you and his father spare your son the unnecessary stress of trying to process a decision that he is not equipped to handle.

[matchewed]

I'm not trying not to discuss it, nor shout down the discussion. Pithy little phrases don't change my point.

I think what DianeC meant is the way you write comes across as harshly chastising and, in effect, is shouting down a person, which is offputting and works counter to your intentions. Even people who are sympathetic to your idea feel an irrational urge to wind you up by being contrary.

And still has nothing to do with what I've said. You guys may not appreciate the tone but have had little to nothing to say about the content.

Your content is that people should sentence their children to a lifetime of social stigma in the name of trying to change a culture that values straight teeth.

Well that's a twisted take on it. My point is that regardless of straight teeth your ability and confidence will be the main determinant for success. Confidence is much more alluring, attractive, and looks better to potential employers than mere straight teeth. Given that, the choice for straight teeth or not should be taken into account primarily for health reasons or for personal reasons (as in letting the individual who would be getting them make the decision). Imposing it on a child in order to perpetuate shitty stereotypes is shitty. An analogy would be why is there not more liposuction for our children given the social stigma associated with fat people. Teeth and weight have a great deal of genetics but also a great deal of regular maintaining. Society judges people based on these things yet I'd bet most here wouldn't advocate liposuction for a fat 11 yr old.

On a board where people feel free to look poorer than their counterparts in the business world and where we choose to reject the trappings of middle class life in order to pursue a truer happiness and satisfaction; I'm disappointed to see such shallow reasoning for such a thing. Many in this thread have used the exact opposite reasoning to support this (confidence, to appear not lower class, in order to advance...etc.).

That is not a push against all the reasons for orthodontics. There are plenty of healthy reasons for it.

[acroy]

I would check out a couple orthodontists..... You may find shopping around nets some much more comfortable figures.

^ 2nd. There may be other options. Partial retainers, etc.

I am from family of 9, with frugal and thoughtful parents. Some of us had crooked teeth. The rule was, if it was cosmetic, it could wait till the child could pay for it. If it was serious (ie teeth wearing incorrectly, inability to clean, etc) then it got fixed. I had crooked crowded teeth and just dealt with it. No biggie. Good way to encourage the kid to be stoic, too. If a person is so shallow as to judge you by your teeth - well, do you care for the regard of that person anyway?

Age 35, the crooked teeth were starting to wear prematurely. So I have invested in full braces, around $5k; able to cover most of it through HSA.

My kiddos may have crooked teeth, and if they do, they'll have the same options I did.

best of luck!!

[Dicey]

Imposing it on a child in order to perpetuate shitty stereotypes is shitty. An analogy would be why is there not more liposuction for our children given the social stigma associated with fat people. Teeth and weight have a great deal of genetics but also a great deal of regular maintaining. Society judges people based on these things yet I'd bet most here wouldn't advocate liposuction for a fat 11 yr old.

What is shitty bad is this analogy. People have died having liposuction. People have died as a result of poor oral health. Doubtful that having straight teeth has killed anyone. Taking steps to ensure your child's lifelong oral health is responsible parenting. Also, being fat is generally a result of overeating. Crooked teeth are generally genetic and no amount of tooth brushing will straighten them. Huge difference.

[MrGreen]

Strictly speaking of oral health, it goes without saying that very crowded teeth make it more difficult to floss and brush properly, which will increase the risk of cavities, crowns, etc. Depending on insurance crowns can run a grand a piece. It doesn't take but a couple of them to make the cost of braces look  like a wise investment. And it's a two-for! You get better looking teeth as a side effect. I've had braces and crowns and I'd take the experience of braces over crowns any day of the week.

[MissStache]

My parents allowed me to make my own decision about braces when I was younger.  I chose not to, and as a result I have severe crowding in my lower jaw. It makes flossing very difficult and painful and my teeth have gotten much more crooked as I've aged (this is also because of my impacted wisdom teeth, which haven't been removed).  Thankfully I have a lovely set of upper teeth and a mild overbite, which results in a nice smile, but I am terribly self-conscious about my crooked lower teeth.  I wish my parents had just gotten me braces and not let me decide. 

[KBecks2]

Thanks everybody for talking with me about this and I appreciate the discussion and all the comments, I'm eager to read what everyone has to say.

My oldest does need the braces.  I hate to put him through the process, but the upper jaw overhang is noticeable, and he does smile awkwardly.  He has ADHD and a little bit of awkward/immature behavior, and if this helps him fit in socially later in life, plus a functional benefit of tooth wear we will take the help.   It is a hesitation because he's going to need a lot of supervision with cleaning, it may be difficult for him to cope with.  So I want to know it's really going to serve him well in life.

I tried to measure my over jet, his over jet and our middle son's over jet with a ruler.  Ha, not easy.  I would guesstimate his is big, like 1/4 inch.  Is that even going to be fixable?  (This is the kind of question I would have liked to ask the orthodontist if they would have given me 10 minutes when I called yesterday.  I think this is not the right office for us and perhaps finding a better office will relieve many of my concerns.)

Anyway, so his looks like as big as 10 mm, mine might be 5 to 7 mm (and I am surviving with it, but it might cause wear and pain as I age, I will become more vigilant about using my night guard!!) and my middle son is maybe 2 mm.  My youngest appears to have gotten teeth more like his dad's and his over jet is minimal, like minimal. It visually looks like nothing. Everyone's teeth are straight, it's just the set back lower jaw that seems to be the issue.

So my oldest needs it. What about my middle son?  What about the youngest? 

I am clenching my jaw as I write about this and think about these things!!

Thanks again for helping me work though this.

[KBecks2]

My parents allowed me to make my own decision about braces when I was younger.  I chose not to, and as a result I have severe crowding in my lower jaw. It makes flossing very difficult and painful and my teeth have gotten much more crooked as I've aged (this is also because of my impacted wisdom teeth, which haven't been removed).  Thankfully I have a lovely set of upper teeth and a mild overbite, which results in a nice smile, but I am terribly self-conscious about my crooked lower teeth.  I wish my parents had just gotten me braces and not let me decide.

I have nicer upper teeth and crooked lower teeth too.  Most of the time I think nothing of it.  It seems people who have had braces look at other people's teeth in more detail.

[Bracken_Joy]

Nurse here! Also worth noting, if keeping your teeth flossed and brushed is harder with uneven teeth, there is more of an issue than mouth health. What is on our teeth goes very quickly to our heart. (This applies for tongue rings too, by the way). These bacteria can result in heart valve problems. It is a significant enough effect that medicaid in many states covers dental cleanings for pregnant women, because the bacteria can cause early labor. Flossing is really important, no joke.

Dental hygiene is about far more than appearance and oral comfort.

(Standard disclaimers: this doesn't constitute medical advice or diagnosis, doesn't constitute a patient relationship, consult with your doctor and orthodontist before taking any action, etc...)

[Sibley]

I tried to measure my over jet, his over jet and our middle son's over jet with a ruler.  Ha, not easy.  I would guesstimate his is big, like 1/4 inch.  Is that even going to be fixable?  (This is the kind of question I would have liked to ask the orthodontist if they would have given me 10 minutes when I called yesterday.  I think this is not the right office for us and perhaps finding a better office will relieve many of my concerns.)

Anyway, so his looks like as big as 10 mm, mine might be 5 to 7 mm (and I am surviving with it, but it might cause wear and pain as I age, I will become more vigilant about using my night guard!!) and my middle son is maybe 2 mm.  My youngest appears to have gotten teeth more like his dad's and his over jet is minimal, like minimal. It visually looks like nothing. Everyone's teeth are straight, it's just the set back lower jaw that seems to be the issue.

Honestly, if I was being told that full braces were needed to fix a jaw alignment issue without teeth alignment issues, I'd walk out and find someone better. Braces fix teeth, and maybe other issues. You're dealing with other issues, not teeth. To my limited knowledge, you'd be spending money on something that isn't designed to fix the real problem.

I did not have braces. There were no individual things glued to my teeth, no wires. I had top and bottom retainers and they fit together so that they forced my lower jaw forward and encouraged it to grow that way. And unless you saw me take them out, they weren't noticeable, unlike braces. For me, it didn't fix it completely. It fixed it enough so that it doesn't cause a problem in the future. For reference, I was probably in-between the two of you, but now I'm much closer. Probably 2-3mm difference.