Are FIRE aspirants more likely to get a divorce than an average person?

[Morning Glory]

For those of us with limited education...

SES is being used here in place of socioeconomic status :)

Thanks for this explanation neo.

Reading through these posts - Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person on the forum who went to a community college, lol. :P

I started at the community college then transferred.  It was a wise financial choice.

 Sounds like you have all the degrees you need to be successful in your career and anything else you want to learn about can be accomplished at the library.  If you don't work in anything social service-adjacent you would have no reason to know SES, just like I don't know all your computer jargon stuff. I do know SEO for some reason though.  Weird.

[curious_george]

For those of us with limited education...

SES is being used here in place of socioeconomic status :)

Thanks for this explanation neo.

Reading through these posts - Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person on the forum who went to a community college, lol. :P

I started at the community college then transferred.  It was a wise financial choice.

 Sounds like you have all the degrees you need to be successful in your career and anything else you want to learn about can be accomplished at the library.  If you don't work in anything social service-adjacent you would have no reason to know SES, just like I don't know all your computer jargon stuff. I do know SEO for some reason though.  Weird.

Thank you..

This is like the most respectful corner of the internet. I can't even disrespect myself here without someone else stepping in and standing up for me.

[RetiredAt63]

For those of us with limited education...

SES is being used here in place of socioeconomic status :)

Thanks for this explanation neo.

Reading through these posts - Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person on the forum who went to a community college, lol. :P

I started at the community college then transferred.  It was a wise financial choice.

 Sounds like you have all the degrees you need to be successful in your career and anything else you want to learn about can be accomplished at the library.  If you don't work in anything social service-adjacent you would have no reason to know SES, just like I don't know all your computer jargon stuff. I do know SEO for some reason though.  Weird.

Thank you..

This is like the most respectful corner of the internet. I can't even disrespect myself here without someone else stepping in and standing up for me.

I didn't know what SES was either - STEM degrees.  Without context my first thought would have been a statistics program.   ;-)

Never put yourself down about education.  One of the smartest people I know left school at 16 for economic (and bad family dynamics) reasons, she never finished high school.

[neo von retorch]

I didn't know what SES was either - STEM degrees.  Without context my first thought would have been a statistics program.   ;-)

Never put yourself down about education.  One of the smartest people I know left school at 16 for economic (and bad family dynamics) reasons, she never finished high school.

So, you might say... socioeconomic status?

[Metalcat]

For those of us with limited education...

SES is being used here in place of socioeconomic status :)

Thanks for this explanation neo.

Reading through these posts - Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person on the forum who went to a community college, lol. :P

I started at the community college then transferred.  It was a wise financial choice.

 Sounds like you have all the degrees you need to be successful in your career and anything else you want to learn about can be accomplished at the library.  If you don't work in anything social service-adjacent you would have no reason to know SES, just like I don't know all your computer jargon stuff. I do know SEO for some reason though.  Weird.

Thank you..

This is like the most respectful corner of the internet. I can't even disrespect myself here without someone else stepping in and standing up for me.

I didn't know what SES was either - STEM degrees.  Without context my first thought would have been a statistics program.   ;-)

Never put yourself down about education.  One of the smartest people I know left school at 16 for economic (and bad family dynamics) reasons, she never finished high school.

Yep. Everyone knows acronyms that other people don't know.

I knew SES because I have a social science background, but it took me a bit to figure out a lot of acronyms here as well. I had never seen the acronym HCOL before.

[Morning Glory]

I didn't know what SES was either - STEM degrees.  Without context my first thought would have been a statistics program.   ;-)

Never put yourself down about education.  One of the smartest people I know left school at 16 for economic (and bad family dynamics) reasons, she never finished high school.

So, you might say... socioeconomic status?

Yes. We used to call it "social class" or just "class" but that became a politically loaded term so we had to make up something longer.

[RetiredAt63]

I didn't know what SES was either - STEM degrees.  Without context my first thought would have been a statistics program.   ;-)

Never put yourself down about education.  One of the smartest people I know left school at 16 for economic (and bad family dynamics) reasons, she never finished high school.

So, you might say... socioeconomic status?

Yes. We used to call it "social class" or just "class" but that became a politically loaded term so we had to make up something longer.

Hmm, I think that SES actually makes sense compared to using social class.  Because someone could be in a higher social class but not  be in a higher economic class because of job situations (I am thinking a lot of teachers fit here).  Or have achieved a lot of wealth, but the mindset is lower class because of upbringing.

[GilesMM]

I didn't know what SES was either - STEM degrees.  Without context my first thought would have been a statistics program.   ;-)

Never put yourself down about education.  One of the smartest people I know left school at 16 for economic (and bad family dynamics) reasons, she never finished high school.

So, you might say... socioeconomic status?

Yes. We used to call it "social class" or just "class" but that became a politically loaded term so we had to make up something longer.

Hmm, I think that SES actually makes sense compared to using social class.  Because someone could be in a higher social class but not  be in a higher economic class because of job situations (I am thinking a lot of teachers fit here).  Or have achieved a lot of wealth, but the mindset is lower class because of upbringing.

SES makes less sense to me.I understand social class which can be independent of financial status and economic status which is just income or spending.  I can’t see how to combine the two. What is high SES?  A founding family heritage, Harvard degree, private club memberships, friends with yachts, cousins in the Senate and no job or income OR a self-made million dollar per year salary selling potatoes to McDonalds?

[Morning Glory]

I didn't know what SES was either - STEM degrees.  Without context my first thought would have been a statistics program.   ;-)

Never put yourself down about education.  One of the smartest people I know left school at 16 for economic (and bad family dynamics) reasons, she never finished high school.

So, you might say... socioeconomic status?

Yes. We used to call it "social class" or just "class" but that became a politically loaded term so we had to make up something longer.

Hmm, I think that SES actually makes sense compared to using social class.  Because someone could be in a higher social class but not  be in a higher economic class because of job situations (I am thinking a lot of teachers fit here).  Or have achieved a lot of wealth, but the mindset is lower class because of upbringing.

SES makes less sense to me.I understand social class which can be independent of financial status and economic status which is just income or spending.  I can’t see how to combine the two. What is high SES?  A founding family heritage, Harvard degree, private club memberships, friends with yachts, cousins in the Senate and no job or income OR a self-made million dollar per year salary selling potatoes to McDonalds?

APA's definition makes it seem pretty difficult to measure in absolute terms:
"Socioeconomic status is the position of an individual or group on the socioeconomic scale, which is determined by a combination of social and economic factors such as income, amount and kind of education, type and prestige of occupation, place of residence, and—in some societies or parts of society—ethnic origin or religious background."

https://www.apa.org/topics/socioeconomic-status

[Metalcat]

I didn't know what SES was either - STEM degrees.  Without context my first thought would have been a statistics program.   ;-)

Never put yourself down about education.  One of the smartest people I know left school at 16 for economic (and bad family dynamics) reasons, she never finished high school.

So, you might say... socioeconomic status?

Yes. We used to call it "social class" or just "class" but that became a politically loaded term so we had to make up something longer.

Hmm, I think that SES actually makes sense compared to using social class.  Because someone could be in a higher social class but not  be in a higher economic class because of job situations (I am thinking a lot of teachers fit here).  Or have achieved a lot of wealth, but the mindset is lower class because of upbringing.

SES makes less sense to me.I understand social class which can be independent of financial status and economic status which is just income or spending.  I can’t see how to combine the two. What is high SES?  A founding family heritage, Harvard degree, private club memberships, friends with yachts, cousins in the Senate and no job or income OR a self-made million dollar per year salary selling potatoes to McDonalds?

APA's definition makes it seem pretty difficult to measure in absolute terms:
"Socioeconomic status is the position of an individual or group on the socioeconomic scale, which is determined by a combination of social and economic factors such as income, amount and kind of education, type and prestige of occupation, place of residence, and—in some societies or parts of society—ethnic origin or religious background."

https://www.apa.org/topics/socioeconomic-status

Yeah, it doesn't have a clear delineation, it's more a collectively agreed upon scale within whatever population you are talking about.

I live in two locations and in one, being a 6 figure earning tradesperson definitely makes you very high up on the SES scale, while in the other, which has an enormous proportion of folks with higher education and white collar jobs, even if a tradesperson made a bit  more than a government executive with a PhD, they wouldn't be considered higher on the SES scale.

The "socio" aspect is socially determined, not absolutely defined.

[GilesMM]

I didn't know what SES was either - STEM degrees.  Without context my first thought would have been a statistics program.   ;-)

Never put yourself down about education.  One of the smartest people I know left school at 16 for economic (and bad family dynamics) reasons, she never finished high school.

So, you might say... socioeconomic status?

Yes. We used to call it "social class" or just "class" but that became a politically loaded term so we had to make up something longer.

Hmm, I think that SES actually makes sense compared to using social class.  Because someone could be in a higher social class but not  be in a higher economic class because of job situations (I am thinking a lot of teachers fit here).  Or have achieved a lot of wealth, but the mindset is lower class because of upbringing.

SES makes less sense to me.I understand social class which can be independent of financial status and economic status which is just income or spending.  I can’t see how to combine the two. What is high SES?  A founding family heritage, Harvard degree, private club memberships, friends with yachts, cousins in the Senate and no job or income OR a self-made million dollar per year salary selling potatoes to McDonalds?

APA's definition makes it seem pretty difficult to measure in absolute terms:
"Socioeconomic status is the position of an individual or group on the socioeconomic scale, which is determined by a combination of social and economic factors such as income, amount and kind of education, type and prestige of occupation, place of residence, and—in some societies or parts of society—ethnic origin or religious background."

https://www.apa.org/topics/socioeconomic-status

Not very useful with such a vague definition.

[Metalcat]

I didn't know what SES was either - STEM degrees.  Without context my first thought would have been a statistics program.   ;-)

Never put yourself down about education.  One of the smartest people I know left school at 16 for economic (and bad family dynamics) reasons, she never finished high school.

So, you might say... socioeconomic status?

Yes. We used to call it "social class" or just "class" but that became a politically loaded term so we had to make up something longer.

Hmm, I think that SES actually makes sense compared to using social class.  Because someone could be in a higher social class but not  be in a higher economic class because of job situations (I am thinking a lot of teachers fit here).  Or have achieved a lot of wealth, but the mindset is lower class because of upbringing.

SES makes less sense to me.I understand social class which can be independent of financial status and economic status which is just income or spending.  I can’t see how to combine the two. What is high SES?  A founding family heritage, Harvard degree, private club memberships, friends with yachts, cousins in the Senate and no job or income OR a self-made million dollar per year salary selling potatoes to McDonalds?

APA's definition makes it seem pretty difficult to measure in absolute terms:
"Socioeconomic status is the position of an individual or group on the socioeconomic scale, which is determined by a combination of social and economic factors such as income, amount and kind of education, type and prestige of occupation, place of residence, and—in some societies or parts of society—ethnic origin or religious background."

https://www.apa.org/topics/socioeconomic-status

Not very useful with such a vague definition.

They didn't invent the term, they're just providing a definition for an existing term. That's about as accurate a definition of the term as possible. The fact is that SES is a fundamentally vague social construct.

[HPstache]

I wonder if it could have to do with personality type.  I remember a poll years ago about what Myers-Briggs personality type members were... as I recall there was a very high population (over 30%?) of INTJ which is normally one of the rarest personality types.  A quick google doesn't seem to show that this personality type is more prone to divorcing, or being divorced, but it wouldn't shock me that if it was from observing relationship discussions on this forum compared to other places I read.

[Villanelle]

I wonder if it could have to do with personality type.  I remember a poll years ago about what Myers-Briggs personality type members were... as I recall there was a very high population (over 30%?) of INTJ which is normally one of the rarest personality types.  A quick google doesn't seem to show that this personality type is more prone to divorcing, or being divorced, but it wouldn't shock me that if it was from observing relationship discussions on this forum compared to other places I read.

It would also be interesting to compare astrological signs of Mustachians vs. the general population.

*ducks and runs from all the angry Myers-Briggs subscribers*

[RetiredAt63]

I wonder if it could have to do with personality type.  I remember a poll years ago about what Myers-Briggs personality type members were... as I recall there was a very high population (over 30%?) of INTJ which is normally one of the rarest personality types.  A quick google doesn't seem to show that this personality type is more prone to divorcing, or being divorced, but it wouldn't shock me that if it was from observing relationship discussions on this forum compared to other places I read.

It would also be interesting to compare astrological signs of Mustachians vs. the general population.

*ducks and runs from all the angry Myers-Briggs subscribers*

Hey, I'm a Leo and I resent that!    ;-)

I actually saw a study many years ago that found that astrology was bunk but when a baby was born did matter.  It affected lots of things, including how old they were relative to classmates when they started school, to sports, to how much they were outside during infancy.  I  certainly saw some of those effects as a summer baby, often youngest in a sports group (therefore smaller and weaker and sometimes less coordinated) to school (again one of the youngest and smallest).

[Morning Glory]

I wonder if it could have to do with personality type.  I remember a poll years ago about what Myers-Briggs personality type members were... as I recall there was a very high population (over 30%?) of INTJ which is normally one of the rarest personality types.  A quick google doesn't seem to show that this personality type is more prone to divorcing, or being divorced, but it wouldn't shock me that if it was from observing relationship discussions on this forum compared to other places I read.

It would also be interesting to compare astrological signs of Mustachians vs. the general population.

*ducks and runs from all the angry Myers-Briggs subscribers*

Hey, I'm a Leo and I resent that!    ;-)

I actually saw a study many years ago that found that astrology was bunk but when a baby was born did matter.  It affected lots of things, including how old they were relative to classmates when they started school, to sports, to how much they were outside during infancy.  I  certainly saw some of those effects as a summer baby, often youngest in a sports group (therefore smaller and weaker and sometimes less coordinated) to school (again one of the youngest and smallest).

The most ridiculous clickbait headline I saw this week was something like "how each mbti type reacts to the silent treatment".

I didn't click to find out but I assume nobody reacts well to it.

[RetiredAt63]

I wonder if it could have to do with personality type.  I remember a poll years ago about what Myers-Briggs personality type members were... as I recall there was a very high population (over 30%?) of INTJ which is normally one of the rarest personality types.  A quick google doesn't seem to show that this personality type is more prone to divorcing, or being divorced, but it wouldn't shock me that if it was from observing relationship discussions on this forum compared to other places I read.

It would also be interesting to compare astrological signs of Mustachians vs. the general population.

*ducks and runs from all the angry Myers-Briggs subscribers*

Hey, I'm a Leo and I resent that!    ;-)

I actually saw a study many years ago that found that astrology was bunk but when a baby was born did matter.  It affected lots of things, including how old they were relative to classmates when they started school, to sports, to how much they were outside during infancy.  I  certainly saw some of those effects as a summer baby, often youngest in a sports group (therefore smaller and weaker and sometimes less coordinated) to school (again one of the youngest and smallest).

The most ridiculous clickbait headline I saw this week was something like "how each mbti type reacts to the silent treatment".

I didn't click to find out but I assume nobody reacts well to it.

I'm sure it partly depends on who is giving them the silent treatment.  With some people it might be a blessing in disguise?   ;-)

[ChpBstrd]

I wonder if it could have to do with personality type.  I remember a poll years ago about what Myers-Briggs personality type members were... as I recall there was a very high population (over 30%?) of INTJ which is normally one of the rarest personality types.  A quick google doesn't seem to show that this personality type is more prone to divorcing, or being divorced, but it wouldn't shock me that if it was from observing relationship discussions on this forum compared to other places I read.

It would also be interesting to compare astrological signs of Mustachians vs. the general population.

*ducks and runs from all the angry Myers-Briggs subscribers*

Hey, I'm a Leo and I resent that!    ;-)

I actually saw a study many years ago that found that astrology was bunk but when a baby was born did matter.  It affected lots of things, including how old they were relative to classmates when they started school, to sports, to how much they were outside during infancy.  I  certainly saw some of those effects as a summer baby, often youngest in a sports group (therefore smaller and weaker and sometimes less coordinated) to school (again one of the youngest and smallest).

The most ridiculous clickbait headline I saw this week was something like "how each mbti type reacts to the silent treatment".

I didn't click to find out but I assume nobody reacts well to it.

Hell, the silent treatment is the only goddamn peace and quiet I get (INTJ).

[Cozzmo]

It's all about transparency...
My wife doesn't know what FIRE is, but she is better with money than me.
We are too old for the RE, I retired a few months ago at 62, and she went inactive in real-estate.
We now have a lot of passive income.
Most of our money came from 40+ years of hard labor.
The passive income is mostly due to her genuine focus research and diligence but I am learning.

I think the key to the money part of the relationship is that both people have to be totally transparent about anything and everything money.
We are both interested. We look at our spreadsheets and talk about every investment ad nauseum. Every day.
It has made us far stronger in every way. 

We just moved into a new house in a cheaper area.
She wants a new kitchen and new hardwood... I am handy but this is beyond me. So, I will let her have this one. (I suspect it will be 40 or 50K)
I know that I will enjoy it too.
But in the end. It is OUR decision.
(Just like the new Zero Turn mower and trailer that I wanted).
But... None of it came as a surprise, and all of it is within budgeted expense.
Transparency...
Thanks,
Chris

[remizidae]

If you start from a position that sticking with marriage is a moral imperative that trumps your personal happiness, fulfillment, joy, or much of anything else, then looking for a bunch of alternative causes and effects isn't particularly interesting or important.

Can you say more about why a person would have this moral position? Is it because you think God has forbidden divorce? Or is it about thinking that marriage involves a promise to stay together forever, and breaking a promise is wrong? Or something else?

Side note and not necessarily directed at you, my pet peeve in Internet discussions of marriage is the assumption that all marriage vows are the same. Of course not every married person promised to stay together forever. You also hear "but you're breaking your vows!!!" in discussions of extramarital sex, but of course not every married person vowed to be monogamous.

[Metalcat]

If you start from a position that sticking with marriage is a moral imperative that trumps your personal happiness, fulfillment, joy, or much of anything else, then looking for a bunch of alternative causes and effects isn't particularly interesting or important.

Can you say more about why a person would have this moral position? Is it because you think God has forbidden divorce? Or is it about thinking that marriage involves a promise to stay together forever, and breaking a promise is wrong? Or something else?

Side note and not necessarily directed at you, my pet peeve in Internet discussions of marriage is the assumption that all marriage vows are the same. Of course not every married person promised to stay together forever. You also hear "but you're breaking your vows!!!" in discussions of extramarital sex, but of course not every married person vowed to be monogamous.

And a hell of a lot of marriages aren't religious, so what does one person's moral position on marriage vows have to do with another person's.

My wedding was officiated by a friend who happens to be a judge and who also happens to be twice divorced, and I was marrying a divorced guy.

What does someone else's (presumably).religious stance on marriage have to do with the contract I signed with my spouse? A contract, which last I checked, was largely financial in terms of its implications, not moral.

[Kris]

If you start from a position that sticking with marriage is a moral imperative that trumps your personal happiness, fulfillment, joy, or much of anything else, then looking for a bunch of alternative causes and effects isn't particularly interesting or important.

Can you say more about why a person would have this moral position? Is it because you think God has forbidden divorce? Or is it about thinking that marriage involves a promise to stay together forever, and breaking a promise is wrong? Or something else?

Side note and not necessarily directed at you, my pet peeve in Internet discussions of marriage is the assumption that all marriage vows are the same. Of course not every married person promised to stay together forever. You also hear "but you're breaking your vows!!!" in discussions of extramarital sex, but of course not every married person vowed to be monogamous.

And a hell of a lot of marriages aren't religious, so what does one person's moral position on marriage vows have to do with another person's.

My wedding was officiated by a friend who happens to be a judge and who also happens to be twice divorced, and I was marrying a divorced guy.

What does someone else's (presumably).religious stance on marriage have to do with the contract I signed with my spouse? A contract, which last I checked, was largely financial in terms of its implications, not moral.

Indeed. Both DH and I are atheists. So all religious overlays onto our marriage are unwelcome and frankly offensive.

[curious_george]

If you start from a position that sticking with marriage is a moral imperative that trumps your personal happiness, fulfillment, joy, or much of anything else, then looking for a bunch of alternative causes and effects isn't particularly interesting or important.

Can you say more about why a person would have this moral position? Is it because you think God has forbidden divorce? Or is it about thinking that marriage involves a promise to stay together forever, and breaking a promise is wrong? Or something else?

Side note and not necessarily directed at you, my pet peeve in Internet discussions of marriage is the assumption that all marriage vows are the same. Of course not every married person promised to stay together forever. You also hear "but you're breaking your vows!!!" in discussions of extramarital sex, but of course not every married person vowed to be monogamous.

And a hell of a lot of marriages aren't religious, so what does one person's moral position on marriage vows have to do with another person's.

My wedding was officiated by a friend who happens to be a judge and who also happens to be twice divorced, and I was marrying a divorced guy.

What does someone else's (presumably).religious stance on marriage have to do with the contract I signed with my spouse? A contract, which last I checked, was largely financial in terms of its implications, not moral.

Indeed. Both DH and I are atheists. So all religious overlays onto our marriage are unwelcome and frankly offensive.

Yep. I am agnostic. I'm not particularly offended when people try and overlay their religious beliefs onto my life though. If anything I feel kind of sorry for them, sort of like the same way I would feel towards a lost puppy or something similar.

They deserve a certain amount of compassion I think, because they often just subscribe to the same beliefs their parents have, etc. It's not really their fault per se. It's like the information just got placed into their subconscious along the way of life and that's what they grew up believing.

[Metalcat]

If you start from a position that sticking with marriage is a moral imperative that trumps your personal happiness, fulfillment, joy, or much of anything else, then looking for a bunch of alternative causes and effects isn't particularly interesting or important.

Can you say more about why a person would have this moral position? Is it because you think God has forbidden divorce? Or is it about thinking that marriage involves a promise to stay together forever, and breaking a promise is wrong? Or something else?

Side note and not necessarily directed at you, my pet peeve in Internet discussions of marriage is the assumption that all marriage vows are the same. Of course not every married person promised to stay together forever. You also hear "but you're breaking your vows!!!" in discussions of extramarital sex, but of course not every married person vowed to be monogamous.

And a hell of a lot of marriages aren't religious, so what does one person's moral position on marriage vows have to do with another person's.

My wedding was officiated by a friend who happens to be a judge and who also happens to be twice divorced, and I was marrying a divorced guy.

What does someone else's (presumably).religious stance on marriage have to do with the contract I signed with my spouse? A contract, which last I checked, was largely financial in terms of its implications, not moral.

Indeed. Both DH and I are atheists. So all religious overlays onto our marriage are unwelcome and frankly offensive.

I'm not even atheist, but I'm not religious *about* marriage, and even if I was, that would be a personal thing.

Whatever God I believe in would never condemn my DH for leaving his horrible marriage and building a truly loving, and unfathomably generous one with me. I refuse to believe that the man who this year has changed my bed pan and bathed me for months with a smile on his face and never making me feel like a burden is morally lacking or not committed enough to marriage.

It's literally laughable.

[wenchsenior]

Interestingly, just Googling turns up a few results that indicate atheists have the lowest rate of divorce in the U.S., far lower than that of any of the Christian identifying groups. I suspect this is due to other factors apart from faith or lack thereof, but it's amusing.

As one of the longest marriages present on this board, WE WIN! :kidding:

[nereo]

Interestingly, just Googling turns up a few results that indicate atheists have the lowest rate of divorce in the U.S., far lower than that of any of the Christian identifying groups. I suspect this is due to other factors apart from faith or lack thereof, but it's amusing.

As one of the longest marriages present on this board, WE WIN! :kidding:

Just spitballing here, but I felt constant pressure to get married by the Catholic friends and family even before I finished college. I felt no such pressure by my atheist/agnostic friends and family.
I’m glad I didn’t  cave into peer pressure to marry either of my long term girlfriends from my early/mid 20s as I’m certain we would have been divorced by now.
(Happily married now to my spouse who I met in my late 20s).

[Metalcat]

Interestingly, just Googling turns up a few results that indicate atheists have the lowest rate of divorce in the U.S., far lower than that of any of the Christian identifying groups. I suspect this is due to other factors apart from faith or lack thereof, but it's amusing.

As one of the longest marriages present on this board, WE WIN! :kidding:

Just spitballing here, but I felt constant pressure to get married by the Catholic friends and family even before I finished college. I felt no such pressure by my atheist/agnostic friends and family.
I’m glad I didn’t care into peer pressure to marry either of my long term girlfriends from my early/mid 20s as I’m certain we would have been divorced by now.
(Happily married now to my spouse who I met in my late 20s).

Yeah, no one in my family or friend group ever made me feel like I had to get married.

My mom always told me not to worry too much about marriage, people get married and divorced all the time, just to be extremely careful about who I have kids with, because whether the relationship works out or not, you have to work closely with them for the rest of your life on the most important thing you will ever do.

And also, that your kid will look and talk like them, so it's a huge pain in the ass when your ex is a prick. lol.

[curious_george]

Interestingly, just Googling turns up a few results that indicate atheists have the lowest rate of divorce in the U.S., far lower than that of any of the Christian identifying groups. I suspect this is due to other factors apart from faith or lack thereof, but it's amusing.

As one of the longest marriages present on this board, WE WIN! :kidding:

This is sort of hilarious, considering how often the church emphasises marriage, sex only within marriage, emphasises pre-marital counseling, marriage counseling, and looks down on divorce.

Yet this other group of people who aren't even religious at all have lower divorce rates.

Really makes ya think...like...maybe people who are rational, less prone to simply believe everything they're told, are also more likely to talk with and understand their significant other? Maybe they are more likely to talk in general because they are less afraid of religious judgment? Maybe they carry less religious guilt? Idk.

Or maybe they only get married if THEY want to get married and not because someone else pressured them to get married.

[Metalcat]

Interestingly, just Googling turns up a few results that indicate atheists have the lowest rate of divorce in the U.S., far lower than that of any of the Christian identifying groups. I suspect this is due to other factors apart from faith or lack thereof, but it's amusing.

As one of the longest marriages present on this board, WE WIN! :kidding:

This is sort of hilarious, considering how often the church emphasises marriage, sex only within marriage, emphasises pre-marital counseling, marriage counseling, and looks down on divorce.

Yet this other group of people who aren't even religious at all have lower divorce rates.

Really makes ya think...like...maybe people who are rational, less prone to simply believe everything they're told, are also more likely to talk with and understand their significant other? Maybe they are more likely to talk in general because they are less afraid of religious judgment? Maybe they carry less religious guilt? Idk.

Or maybe they only get married if THEY want to get married and not because someone else pressured them to get married.

I'm sure there are a ton of contributing factors, this is massive populational data.

It would be interesting to see what other features correlate with those datasets, age at time of marriage perhaps?

[ChpBstrd]

Interestingly, just Googling turns up a few results that indicate atheists have the lowest rate of divorce in the U.S., far lower than that of any of the Christian identifying groups. I suspect this is due to other factors apart from faith or lack thereof, but it's amusing.

As one of the longest marriages present on this board, WE WIN! :kidding:

This is sort of hilarious, considering how often the church emphasises marriage, sex only within marriage, emphasises pre-marital counseling, marriage counseling, and looks down on divorce.

Yet this other group of people who aren't even religious at all have lower divorce rates.

Really makes ya think...like...maybe people who are rational, less prone to simply believe everything they're told, are also more likely to talk with and understand their significant other? Maybe they are more likely to talk in general because they are less afraid of religious judgment? Maybe they carry less religious guilt? Idk.

Or maybe they only get married if THEY want to get married and not because someone else pressured them to get married.

It helps when one or both spouses do NOT have an ethical system flexible enough to rationalize "god wants me to be happy" or "if I repent, I'm guaranteed forgiveness" or "maybe god is leading me in the direction of this person I'm having an affair with". It also helps when we don't believe or accept the inevitability of being "sinners" as the Bible says we are, and feel no need to demonstrate this point so that the Bible is proven true by our own behavior.

The moral relativism is a feature, not a bug, and such ethical systems are appealing for that reason. It's an intellectual device for shedding personal accountability. Most people hate personal accountability.

A simple secular ethical system based on the wrongness of harming other people prevents a lot of marital issues. It's much harder to rationalize bad behavior when you can see or foresee the harm.

Just heard a story from an old friend. When she caught her husband cheating (both evangelicals), he said "Aw shit, I had the best of both worlds." You can bet he's been repenting in front of a prayer group somewhere, and his behavior is only strengthening everyone else's belief. So it goes.

[GuitarStv]

Atheist or religious, if you want your marriage to last don't have sex before meeting your husband/wife.


- https://ifstudies.org/blog/counterintuitive-trends-in-the-link-between-premarital-sex-and-marital-stability

:P

[PoutineLover]

I think that religion strongly contributed to my parents getting married too young, because it was the socially acceptable way for my mom to leave the family home. It also contributed to her marriage lasting way longer than it should have, because she felt so much pressure to stay married despite being unhappy.

When I was a teen I was definitely aware that my parents fought a lot and had bouts of sleeping apart, and they ended up separating three months after my younger sister moved out.

I believe that divorce is much less likely when both parties are getting married because they want to, with full knowledge of who their partner is, preferably after living together, and when both people have the option to leave (financially and socially) but choose to stay because they want to.

As a child of divorce, I never want that for my own child, but I would be willing to do it if I felt it was in my and her best interest. Financial knowledge and independence is a key part of being able to leave an unhappy situation. Luckily I have a very strong marriage with very strong communication and shared values and goals, and we are both highly educated and affluent enough, so the odds are in our favour.

[GilesMM]

Atheist or religious, if you want your marriage to last don't have sex before meeting your husband/wife.


- https://ifstudies.org/blog/counterintuitive-trends-in-the-link-between-premarital-sex-and-marital-stability

:P

On the other hand, if you have had two partners the data suggests going for broke.

[Metalcat]

Atheist or religious, if you want your marriage to last don't have sex before meeting your husband/wife.


- https://ifstudies.org/blog/counterintuitive-trends-in-the-link-between-premarital-sex-and-marital-stability

:P

Or that you should be the kind of person that no one would ever break up with, lol.

[GuitarStv]

Atheist or religious, if you want your marriage to last don't have sex before meeting your husband/wife.


- https://ifstudies.org/blog/counterintuitive-trends-in-the-link-between-premarital-sex-and-marital-stability

:P

On the other hand, if you have had two partners the data suggests going for broke.

Hahaha, yep!

[wenchsenior]

Apparently, my husband is beating the odds on this graph as well LOL.

[Metalcat]

Apparently, my husband is beating the odds on this graph as well LOL.

Apparently any of us who hooked up with more than 2 people are.

[nereo]

Apparently, my husband is beating the odds on this graph as well LOL.

Apparently any of us who hooked up with more than 2 people are.

Apparently that graph is showing the number of parters of women.  They did not have available data for men.  And of course no statistics were applied, and now estimates of variance are presented.