Author Topic: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.  (Read 9810 times)

Last Night

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Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« on: December 22, 2015, 08:38:01 AM »
This is so infuriating and I am sure I am not the only one that's been in this predicament. 

I have an older washer/dryer stackable combo that I've used successfully for years without any issues, I paid $250/each used 4 years ago, at the time they were 2 years old and in good shape, retailed for close to $700/each.

The Control board on the washer is now acting up and the cheapest place I can find it for is $250 or a little cheaper if I go used from ebay. 

WTF

It just doesn't make sense, so ultimately I am better off tossing out a perfectly fine washing machine with a malfunctioning control board because it's prohibitively expensive to fix.  F*$&&%*  The issue is the cost of the control board, I'd be willing to eat it provided nothing else broke, but if the control board is $250 how much will the next wear/tear item cost to replace a year from now, $150? $200 the year after.  /rant
« Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 08:39:39 AM by Last Night »

Mr. Green

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2015, 08:46:33 AM »
This is no different than a host of other devices that use "control boards" in them these days. Your TV, your dishwasher, anything that has been computerized. It's one of the reasons I was hesitant to buy a new style washer, knowing I could buy a non-computerized version a decrease my risk that a computer component would die, causing me to toss the entire machine. This trend will only intensify and more appliances become computerized. Your refrigerator, etc.

2Cent

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2015, 08:47:35 AM »
You could just find a broken one which still has a working control board. That should cost almost nothing. In fact people will be happy to give you their broken washer if you lift it yourself. Or check the local junk yard.

fattest_foot

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2015, 08:53:41 AM »
I ran into this earlier this year when I was reading reviews of refrigerators. It seems like sometime within the last 15 years manufacturers got smart and started building things that won't last longer than 6-8 years at the maximum.

It makes more sense than to build something with a high quality that lasts forever, because then you lose a customer. Having appliances with a short lifespan means indefinite customers.

mm1970

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2015, 10:08:46 AM »
I ran into this earlier this year when I was reading reviews of refrigerators. It seems like sometime within the last 15 years manufacturers got smart and started building things that won't last longer than 6-8 years at the maximum.

It makes more sense than to build something with a high quality that lasts forever, because then you lose a customer. Having appliances with a short lifespan means indefinite customers.
Heck, they taught us that in engineering school.

Either "replacement" or "maintenance"!

arebelspy

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2015, 10:12:03 AM »

I ran into this earlier this year when I was reading reviews of refrigerators. It seems like sometime within the last 15 years manufacturers got smart and started building things that won't last longer than 6-8 years at the maximum.

It makes more sense than to build something with a high quality that lasts forever, because then you lose a customer. Having appliances with a short lifespan means indefinite customers.

The term is planned obsolescence.
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Syonyk

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2015, 10:22:16 AM »
Well, you know what they say!

"Ending is better than mending. The more stitches, the less riches."

I mean, what would someone think if they came in and you had an old washer?  They would think you were downright poor!  That's a fate worse than death!

=====

*sigh*

If you want to geek out on the control board, look for failed relays/MOSFETS/etc.  Usually it's the power control side of those things that fails.  But that's a bit of a hard project for starter electronics repair unless there's something very visibly blown up.

lthenderson

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2015, 10:46:37 AM »
This is so infuriating and I am sure I am not the only one that's been in this predicament. 

I have an older washer/dryer stackable combo that I've used successfully for years without any issues, I paid $250/each used 4 years ago, at the time they were 2 years old and in good shape, retailed for close to $700/each.

The Control board on the washer is now acting up and the cheapest place I can find it for is $250 or a little cheaper if I go used from ebay. 

WTF

It just doesn't make sense, so ultimately I am better off tossing out a perfectly fine washing machine with a malfunctioning control board because it's prohibitively expensive to fix.  F*$&&%*  The issue is the cost of the control board, I'd be willing to eat it provided nothing else broke, but if the control board is $250 how much will the next wear/tear item cost to replace a year from now, $150? $200 the year after.  /rant

As someone who has worked as an engineer in the washing machine industry, you are complaining about the cost of the most expensive and longest to develop item in the entire machine. It took us sometimes up to five years to finalize the control board design to meet all industry safety standards, make it user friendly, make it with robust logic so that you don't have to reboot it every other day, etc. Not to mention  you are putting a highly specialized piece of electronics in an environment that is moist, dusty and get vibrated around so extra design has to be done to protect it from all that.

sol

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2015, 10:53:20 AM »
The term is planned obsolescence.

I call it capitalism.  Quarterly profits are more important than quality products.  Or efficient use of raw materials or societal benefit.

What would happen to the global economy if everything you bought lasted the rest of your life?  No more phones/gadgets, no more cars, no more appliances.  Why, we'd have to trade them back and forth just for the sake of novelty, and how am I supposed to extract dividends from bartering?

lthenderson

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2015, 11:02:58 AM »
In manufacturing, there are three things that must be considered when designing a product; quality, time and cost. You can focus on two of those things but at the expense of the third... always.

A. You can make a good quality product that is cheap but it takes a long time to develop.
B. You can make a good quality product in a timely fashion but it will be more expensive.
C. You can make a product cheap and get it to market fast but quality will suffer.

Mr. Green

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2015, 11:07:53 AM »
From the manufacturer's perspective, they could be looking at market data that shows them most of their customers only keep an appliance that 6-8 years before wanting a new one so why make them more durable if it's going to drive up the price?

I think of this same principal when I walk around neighborhoods in my area. I see these little quarter acre lots all squeezed together where a dozen people could see you standing in your backyard from inside their house and I can't fathom why people are interested in that. Yet market data shows that's what most people want and they sell like hot cakes around me.

It's clear that my interests simply don't align with consumerist America.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 11:09:30 AM by Mr. Green »

Gen Y Finance Journey

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2015, 11:51:20 AM »
Planned obsolescence has taken over pretty much everything. Did you know light bulbs could last essentially forever if the manufacturers wanted them to?

coppertop

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2015, 12:37:16 PM »
When we moved into our house about ten years ago it was 50 years old.  It still had an original Kelvinator refrigerator, stove, oil-fired hot water heater and a gihugic boiler that all ran like tops.  It also had a vintage 1960s washing machine and a dryer that was maybe from the 70s.  We replaced them all, only because they were not efficient and we were having to buy way too much heating oil, for example.  The Kelvinator used to ice up, of course, as well.  They did not make frost-free in those days.  They'd probably be operating to this day had we kept them.   

Mr. Green

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2015, 01:08:08 PM »
Planned obsolescence has taken over pretty much everything. Did you know light bulbs could last essentially forever if the manufacturers wanted them to?
There's a light bulb that has been running for over 100 years. The company that made it went out of business I believe. There are subtle discrepancies people have found in things like glass and filament thickness but nothing anyone can conclusively prove is the reason for such incredible longevity. The bulb has its own webcam in a fire station in CA. I've also heard light bulbs manufactured in the 50s and 60s claimed longevity that is 2-3x what it is now.

http://www.centennialbulb.org/

Cassie

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2015, 01:58:36 PM »
WE ran into the same thing with our washing machine but it was 14 years old and cheap to start with so we just replaced it. WE keep our appliances until they die but I know many people that replace them all at once.

Syonyk

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2015, 02:07:24 PM »
There's a light bulb that has been running for over 100 years. The company that made it went out of business I believe. There are subtle discrepancies people have found in things like glass and filament thickness but nothing anyone can conclusively prove is the reason for such incredible longevity. The bulb has its own webcam in a fire station in CA. I've also heard light bulbs manufactured in the 50s and 60s claimed longevity that is 2-3x what it is now.

http://www.centennialbulb.org/

It's a bulb running at a tiny fraction of rated output.  Yeah, they last a long time.

The funny thing is that the lightbulb lifespan conspiracy is actually real. :)  It sounds like email forward nonsense, but it was a quite real cartel.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/geek-life/history/the-great-lightbulb-conspiracy

Jack

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2015, 02:45:59 PM »
The term is planned obsolescence.

I call it capitalism.  Quarterly profits are more important than quality products.  Or efficient use of raw materials or societal benefit.

What would happen to the global economy if everything you bought lasted the rest of your life?  No more phones/gadgets, no more cars, no more appliances.  Why, we'd have to trade them back and forth just for the sake of novelty, and how am I supposed to extract dividends from bartering?

You would extract dividends by buying stock in Ebay, Craigslist and antique shops.

Also consider the broken window fallacy: if we didn't have to spend money replacing shit that wore out, we could use that money to buy additional shit instead.

crispy

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2015, 03:37:35 PM »
When we moved into our house about ten years ago it was 50 years old.  It still had an original Kelvinator refrigerator, stove, oil-fired hot water heater and a gihugic boiler that all ran like tops.  It also had a vintage 1960s washing machine and a dryer that was maybe from the 70s.  We replaced them all, only because they were not efficient and we were having to buy way too much heating oil, for example.  The Kelvinator used to ice up, of course, as well.  They did not make frost-free in those days.  They'd probably be operating to this day had we kept them.

We moved into a 40 year old house back in August and it still has the original wall oven.  I am pretty sure the cooktop isn't original, but it is probably at least 20 years old.  These appliances rock!  They both actually get hot and cook evenly.  We had planned to replace the oven when we moved in because it's rather ugly, but after using it, we have decided to keep it until it dies.

We had just bought a flashy new stainless steel stove with a ceramic cooktop in our old house, and it was horrible.  It took forever for the burners to get hot, and the oven never seemed to get hot enough and didn't cook evenly. 

850

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2015, 04:23:14 PM »
We've had our Kenmore set for over 16 years and they are still going strong. When they go, we plan on going with a Speed Queen. You can get them with mechanical controls.

http://www.speedqueen.com/products/top-load-washers.aspx

WSUCoug1994

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2015, 04:40:25 PM »
FWIW - when I had the appliance repairman out to the house a couple years ago the advice he gave me was buy the simplest appliance you can.  No digital readouts - just knobs.  Although we have yet to see if this strategy plays out but it felt like sound advice.  He said he only gets called out on the fancy stuff.

Tjat

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2015, 06:00:03 PM »
As someone who has worked as an engineer in the washing machine industry, you are complaining about the cost of the most expensive and longest to develop item in the entire machine. It took us sometimes up to five years to finalize the control board design to meet all industry safety standards, make it user friendly, make it with robust logic so that you don't have to reboot it every other day, etc. Not to mention  you are putting a highly specialized piece of electronics in an environment that is moist, dusty and get vibrated around so extra design has to be done to protect it from all that.

Perhaps the washing machine industry could've saved quite a bit of time and money by not fixing what wasn't broken. On my washing machine, dishwasher, and vent hood, the control board broke within 2 weeks to a year. Apparently the industyr is also aware that putting a highly specialized piece of electronics in a moist, dusty, and unstable environment isn't a good idea. They just didn't care.

Miraculously, the pre-control board ancestors of the same appliances are still ticking along in my parents house.

gooki

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2015, 06:12:27 PM »
FWIW - when I had the appliance repairman out to the house a couple years ago the advice he gave me was buy the simplest appliance you can.  No digital readouts - just knobs.  Although we have yet to see if this strategy plays out but it felt like sound advice.  He said he only gets called out on the fancy stuff.

This is the philosophy we follow. It's been working out well for us over the past 11 years. And when a repair has been needed (dryer door hinge cracked), it was something I could do myself in an hour or so.

sol

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2015, 07:16:27 PM »
FWIW - when I had the appliance repairman out to the house a couple years ago the advice he gave me was buy the simplest appliance you can.  No digital readouts - just knobs.  Although we have yet to see if this strategy plays out but it felt like sound advice.  He said he only gets called out on the fancy stuff.

This is the philosophy we follow. It's been working out well for us over the past 11 years. And when a repair has been needed (dryer door hinge cracked), it was something I could do myself in an hour or so.

Is this the future of high-end luxury goods?  Non-computerized mechanicals that last forever, like a leather briefcase you inherit from your grandfather because it's beautifully weathered and has a timeless style?  Will the 1950s era gas ranges be considered indestructible antiques in another hundred years?

bacchi

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2015, 10:31:33 PM »
Is this the future of high-end luxury goods?  Non-computerized mechanicals that last forever, like a leather briefcase you inherit from your grandfather because it's beautifully weathered and has a timeless style?  Will the 1950s era gas ranges be considered indestructible antiques in another hundred years?

I came home one day to find flames shooting out the top of my 1940s gas range. The burners were always on and the gas regulator failed on one of them.

I should've replaced the burner assemblies but I sold it and got a modern unit, which broke right after the warranty expired. The control board wasn't priced too high, though.

RobFIRE

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2015, 01:04:06 AM »
Planned obsolescence is part of it, certainly in some areas such as mobile/cellular phones - manufacturers choose to provide software updates only for a couple of years when they could do so for several more (at least in terms of security/bug fixes even if not providing the full latest versions).

For other areas, domestic white goods (washing machine etc.) I think it's more of a case that most people want things cheap, don't care to do any research, don't consider externalities (machine is really loud and uses more energy, but it's cheap!) so most manufacturers have to cut corners/take risks (reduced QA etc.) or knowingly reduce quality to get the price down. Even though with installation, energy, replacement costs the quality machine is on average the lower cost option over the long run.

Fortunately, as ever, best answer seems to be second hand goods from the manufacturers who still do things properly (or closest to it), like the ~3 year old ThinkPad laptops I buy at about 1/6th the original price.

Monkey Uncle

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2015, 04:41:46 AM »
We've had our Kenmore set for over 16 years and they are still going strong. When they go, we plan on going with a Speed Queen. You can get them with mechanical controls.

http://www.speedqueen.com/products/top-load-washers.aspx

This.  Our 30-yr old Maytag finally gave up the ghost this year when the transmission froze up.  It would have cost over $600 to repair, so we bought a new Speed Queen for about $700.  It's the only high quality brand you can get at a decent price (the way Maytags used to be).  Maytag was bought out by the conglomerate that makes Frigidaire stuff some time back, so Maytag is now just a nameplate on a piece of crap.

To the OP - what brand is the washer and how old is it?  If it is an otherwise reliable machine, it may be worth it to spend $250 on the control panel rather than dropping $700 on a new one.

Thegoblinchief

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2015, 07:18:24 AM »
The average consumer buys appliances based on 1) appearance and 2) feature list --> more features being better, right?

This isn't scientific but I wouldn't be surprised if failure rate=time used^number of features.

We bought (cheap) mechanical washer/dryer 10 years ago and have zero problems. I've been running a totally mechanical controlled microwave for nearly 15 years. Thing was $35 brand new, the absolute cheapest microwave Wal-Mart carried back then.

In my mind, reliability has much more to due with simplicity than initial manufacturing quality. Simple machines are just inherently less fragile.

fattest_foot

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2015, 08:51:22 AM »
Planned obsolescence is part of it, certainly in some areas such as mobile/cellular phones - manufacturers choose to provide software updates only for a couple of years when they could do so for several more (at least in terms of security/bug fixes even if not providing the full latest versions).

For other areas, domestic white goods (washing machine etc.) I think it's more of a case that most people want things cheap, don't care to do any research, don't consider externalities (machine is really loud and uses more energy, but it's cheap!) so most manufacturers have to cut corners/take risks (reduced QA etc.) or knowingly reduce quality to get the price down. Even though with installation, energy, replacement costs the quality machine is on average the lower cost option over the long run.

Fortunately, as ever, best answer seems to be second hand goods from the manufacturers who still do things properly (or closest to it), like the ~3 year old ThinkPad laptops I buy at about 1/6th the original price.

I think this is what I was trying to get at with my refrigerator post the other day: for most appliances today, that no longer exists. There literally isn't a single manufacturer that produces a refrigerator that "does things properly." There isn't some magical appliance out there that costs more for higher quality. They're all produced cheaply and to only last a few years.

That was the frustrating part of researching a new one. It doesn't matter if you buy a $500 fridge or a $5000 one. They're both a crapshoot of whether they'll die on you in 2 years or 6 years. Will either last a decade? The odds are severely against you.

lthenderson

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2015, 08:54:10 AM »
As someone who has worked as an engineer in the washing machine industry, you are complaining about the cost of the most expensive and longest to develop item in the entire machine. It took us sometimes up to five years to finalize the control board design to meet all industry safety standards, make it user friendly, make it with robust logic so that you don't have to reboot it every other day, etc. Not to mention  you are putting a highly specialized piece of electronics in an environment that is moist, dusty and get vibrated around so extra design has to be done to protect it from all that.

Perhaps the washing machine industry could've saved quite a bit of time and money by not fixing what wasn't broken. On my washing machine, dishwasher, and vent hood, the control board broke within 2 weeks to a year. Apparently the industyr is also aware that putting a highly specialized piece of electronics in a moist, dusty, and unstable environment isn't a good idea. They just didn't care.

Miraculously, the pre-control board ancestors of the same appliances are still ticking along in my parents house.

They would be happy to keep cranking out the same machine without every changing but like all industries, they follow what the customers want and customers want better/more functions which require larger brains than mechanical timers can provide. They also buy ones with LCD screens and push buttons because they 'feel' that it will do a better job. Had we not provided that, other manufacturers would have swallowed up our business.

Yes we are aware that control boards in a washing machine environment aren't the best but even the old mechanical timer machines have control boards in them. They just don't have the LCD screens and push buttons. There are steps that you can take to seal up the electronics from dust and humidity and we certainly took them. I've seen electronic control boards still working in some of our machines 25 years old. I've also see control boards stop working after a year or two. Like anything, not all two control boards are made or treated in identical fashions. What we can't stop is people pounding on LCD screens and push buttons, washing extremely out of balanced loads, etc.

poorboyrichman

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2015, 09:04:58 AM »
http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-20-own-classics.html

There will always be the odd company that still make quality products, even if it is 25% more expensive than other comparable brand names, if it lasts twice as long its worth buying. Find out who they are. This can be easier said than done though and my experience with washing machines is limited, it often takes an expert eye to identify quality goods over the shoddy stuff. Maybe our engineer friend can suggest particular models?

You all hit the nail on the head though, avoid overly complex electronics in stuff that doesn't need the complexity.

By the time a brand becomes mainstream its quite likely that quality takes a back-seat to profits. Same applies to shoes, coats, clothes, analogue speaker/hifi systems etc.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 09:08:13 AM by poorboyrichman »

Tyler

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2015, 09:23:52 AM »
From the manufacturer's perspective, they could be looking at market data that shows them most of their customers only keep an appliance that 6-8 years before wanting a new one so why make them more durable if it's going to drive up the price?
...

It's clear that my interests simply don't align with consumerist America.

+1. 

I've worked in product design for many years.  When companies make quality products that cost more, the vast majority of consumers tend to gravitate towards cheaper options with their money.  Even then, there's generally a breaking point where even cheapskates reject stuff (think of all the crap that ends up at the dollar store clearance bin).  Marketing groups are pretty sophisticated these days with finding the right features and price points that drive the most sales.  If the mass market model doesn't meet your personal quality standards, that just means you're an atypical buyer.  Rather than complain, own that and be selective about what you buy.

That said, I totally agree that the trend to make every device "smart" is definitely unnecessarily increasing complexity in product design. 

Mr. Green

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2015, 10:43:44 AM »

+1. 

I've worked in product design for many years.  When companies make quality products that cost more, the vast majority of consumers tend to gravitate towards cheaper options with their money.  Even then, there's generally a breaking point where even cheapskates reject stuff (think of all the crap that ends up at the dollar store clearance bin).  Marketing groups are pretty sophisticated these days with finding the right features and price points that drive the most sales.  If the mass market model doesn't meet your personal quality standards, that just means you're an atypical buyer.  Rather than complain, own that and be selective about what you buy.

That said, I totally agree that the trend to make every device "smart" is definitely unnecessarily increasing complexity in product design.
[/quote]
I definitely own it. That's why I bought my own land and I'm building my own house. I know I won't find a builder that will build a house on the kind of property I'm looking for. Though, it never ceases to amaze me what the masses "want," even after all these years.

mm1970

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2015, 10:55:30 AM »
From the manufacturer's perspective, they could be looking at market data that shows them most of their customers only keep an appliance that 6-8 years before wanting a new one so why make them more durable if it's going to drive up the price?

I think of this same principal when I walk around neighborhoods in my area. I see these little quarter acre lots all squeezed together where a dozen people could see you standing in your backyard from inside their house and I can't fathom why people are interested in that. Yet market data shows that's what most people want and they sell like hot cakes around me.

It's clear that my interests simply don't align with consumerist America.
That's going to depend on how old the neighborhood is, yes?  My 'hood was built in the 20's and 40's, and houses are small (1000-1200 sf) and lots are small (1/10 of an acre).

Newer neighborhoods from the 60's have houses in the 1400 sf range and lots in the 1/7 acre range.

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #33 on: December 23, 2015, 11:47:13 AM »
No control board to break:

raymond

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  • Posts: 15
Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2015, 10:58:19 AM »
hello,
my 4 years old washing machine died a few weeks ago, it just didn't power up anymore. The control board would have cost 280€ to replace including labor cost. With a 1 month delay on top of that since the supplier had to program the replacement board for my specific machine.

TLDR, the control board can be fixed most of the time.

I got mine fixed for 60€. I removed the control board and brought it to an electronics repair shop. A resistor and another chip later I had a better than new control board.

Most electronic components have a limited lifespan, unless the part containing the software is fried these boards can be fixed.

The amount of repairable washers filling up landfills is just disgusting.

reader2580

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Re: Appliance Manufacturers have one uped Mustachians it seems.
« Reply #35 on: December 24, 2015, 10:10:51 PM »
That's going to depend on how old the neighborhood is, yes?  My 'hood was built in the 20's and 40's, and houses are small (1000-1200 sf) and lots are small (1/10 of an acre).

Newer neighborhoods from the 60's have houses in the 1400 sf range and lots in the 1/7 acre range.

Many of today's new houses are built on very small lots, at least in my area.  Part of the reason is because land is expensive, and part of the reason is because buyers want a nicer house and are willing to exchange a smaller lot for a fancier house.  Often the builder offers no choice in lot size.  If you want a new house in a specific area you need to buy the house with tiny lot, or don't live there.

My aunt and uncle are in their 60s and just bought a new 1900 square foot house on a tiny little lot.  They live on the far flung edge of a metro area where land should be cheap enough to have a decent size lot.  (No idea why they need 1,900 square foot plus basement for retirement.)  The land was probably a farm field a year or two ago.  Personally, I like a little more land, but my three acres is really on the big side.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!