The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: rothwem on January 14, 2021, 07:46:25 AM
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I've loved cars since I was a little kid--My dad had an Omni GLH that was always broken, but when it was working, the shove into the seat along with the WOOSH of the turbo spooling was one of the big things I remember from my childhood. We'd egg him on to accelerate faster when we were merging onto freeways and I sobbed when my dad sold it. I was pissed at him for days, hard stuff for a 6 year old to manage. I had an enviable matchbox/hotwheels car collection, with all the ramps and stuff to go with it. We used to cut out pages from my dad's car magazines and hang them on the walls of my bedroom.
Basically I was screwed from birth.
I love cars, and have owned way too many of them. I currently have an 11 year old BMW, and while its not the least reliable product they make, it has a bit more involved care and feeding than a Corolla or Honda Fit which in turn takes more money and time than a Corolla or Honda Fit. I've tried to stop liking cars before--I bought a base model Tacoma a few years ago in an attempt to stop the cycle of upgrading and fiddling with BMWs, but I hated everything about it--the crappy transmission, the flexy chassis, the poor ride, the uncomfortable seats, the dim headlights, the coarse motor etc. I made it 6 months in the Tacoma before I got rid of it and got another BMW.
I think it must be easier for people who own cars to impress people, but my issue is that I notice the bad stuff, and I'm super impressed when I notice some clever engineering. For example, the BMW I own right now uses a magnesium engine block, and its one of the lightest engines on the market despite being a 3.0L inline 6. It uses an electric water pump so that it warms up faster for less engine wear, and it has a thermostat that can regulate the temperature of the motor to bias it towards efficiency or performance. It makes 230 naturally aspirated horsepower, but it can still get 30+ mpg on the highway!
I know that a lot of people don't care about that stuff. I honestly wish I didn't, but when I drive something else, I just can't seem to hedonically adapt down. I've flirted with selling my car and getting a Honda fit or a Corolla, but I'm leery about making another "Tacoma mistake" as my wife puts it.
So are there any former car enthusiasts on the board? How did you quit?
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I used to be you. :) I actually still am you. Owned an E46 for many years and loved it even if the waterpump was the non-eletrical that had a tendency to break.
I didn't really quit being a car guy but then the EV revolution happened, it ticked all my boxes wrt performance and technical stuff. So with open eyes I ordered a Tesla Model 3 LR.
It has some nice mustachian qualities:
- Very cheap to run
- Cheap to maintain
- Drives very much like a sporty 3 series
- Performance is awesome no matter what speed I'm going
- Technology makes it interesting and software updates continually improve the car
And some unmustachian ones:
- Quite expensive
- Insurance is pretty expensive.
But I drive a lot for work and I can justify the expense even though I know that the purchase has set my FI date back quite a bit. But it was worth it.
I would urge you to join the EV performance revolution, it actually rocks if you are a car guy.
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Just asking - is a Tacoma vs a Beemer really a fiar comparisson? Quite differnt machines for quite different purposes.
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Just asking - is a Tacoma vs a Beemer really a fiar comparisson? Quite differnt machines for quite different purposes.
+1
If you like BMW's but want something more reliable you could look at an Acura or Lexus. Purchase price is still higher than the Honda or Toyota but at least those premium cars are reliable.
I don't think you will ever stop being a car enthusiast but some "nice cars" are more mustachian than others. Find the happy medium for you.
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Yep. I'm on my second Subaru STI. This is not a fuel efficient car, but is it fun to drive! For a long time after I found FIRE and MMM, I struggled with my ownership of this car. But it makes me happy, and the wife and I can afford it. We are plenty frugal elsewhere, but we spend money--after lots of thought and waiting to make sure it really matters to us--on things we love. I love driving my STI.
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I used to be a car guy.
I've owned a 68 Dodge Charger, and 71 Dodge Challenger, and over two dozen 1968-76 Chevelle's and Impalas over the years. When I was spending money as fast as I could make it I owned 8 cars at age 26. It looked flashy and I had a lot of fun, but I was broke as a joke. I haven't owned any car that wasn't just basic transportation for the last 14 years, but I plan to buy another fully restored classic once I hit my FI number.
Life's too short not to have a little fun.
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Could you make the hobby pay for itself? Use your expertise to own a string of used cars, but make the right choices buying/selling/maintaining, to keep cost of ownership closer to a corolla?
Alternatively, could you get access to the cars at no cost to yourself? Work at a race track or high end car dealership? Help a wealthy enthusiast maintain his fleet? Join a car club. Etc.
Those are angles I'd look at, opposed to cursing my hedonic adaptation.
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I've had a sports cars ever since HS.
2 yrs ago I finally got out of it partially cause finances and partially cause my OCD keeping them clean was driving me crazy along with a bad lower back.
would love a C8 tho, but that will be way down the road, probably have flying c12s by then
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I seriously think about quitting every so often but I stop myself when I realize that my car hobby is one of the few things that bring me joy and cutting it out would make me miserable. Driving, tinkering, tracking, researching... all fun stuff.
I did make a compromise, though. I decided that I'd only spend money on one fun car at a time and I would only buy cars that I could realistically see myself driving for a decade or more - ie no "churning" through toys. Basically, applying "mindful spending" to the hobby - do I really want this, will it really make things better, is it worth X hours at a job I don't like, etc. Luckily, I've never been much for going nuts with modding my cars so things are kept fairly sane by enthusiast standards.
I predict I'll get out of the hobby at some point when I'm older and get tired of the tinkering or just get bored with the hobby and want to do something else.
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I used to think that being interested in things meant having to own them, but I don't anymore.
There's nothing wrong with being a "car person", but you should question deeply why that would ever have to translate into ownership.
I'm a book person, but I don't need to own books. I'm a fine art person, but I don't need to own a ton of paintings. I'm an animal person, but I don't need to own a ton of exotic animals. And I'm a car person, but I don't need to own expensive cars. I'm a jewelry and fashion person, but I don't need to own a bunch of bling and couture. I'm a nature person, but I don't need to own a ton of land.
The wonderful things of this world can be appreciated and enjoyed without having to own them.
If owning a certain type of car will genuinely enrich your life, then you do you, but make that decision fully and don't angst about it. It either is worth spending on or it isn't.
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I am a girl who likes cars. I’m not about performance I’m about pretty lines and attractive shapes.I like them but I don’t have to own them all. I like going to car shows.
I’ve had a few frivolous cars in my life, even while saving for FIRE. My first car was an MG midget. My second frivolous car was a Triumph TR 6 Which in my mind is still pretty much the ultimate sports car.Neither ran especially well and once I became a serious adult I had to have cars that were reliable.
Then when I retired, and could be unserious again and found I have plenty of money I bought a zippy little two-seater convertible, a Fiatta ( Fiat Spider made by Miata factory.) That’s always the kind of classic cars I like, small ones, usually two-seater convertible. But I like any other little odd funny cars like Metropolian Nash. Izetta from the 40’s. OG mini Cooper. If I won the lottery I would go out and buy a fleet of funny little cars.
DH is a car guy. In his life he also owned an MG midget before he met me, and then bought a TR 6 after knowing me for a while. But he likes German cars generally I think. His midlife crisis car was a 1979 Mercedes-Benz SL.
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I managed to get the car thing mostly out of my system. Sort of.
Bought a 2005 Porsche boxster in winter of 2009, in Southern California, and the bottom of market crash. I had been looking at getting one for a few years, and I figured it was then or never.
I kept it for 4 years, and drove it most weekends in the canyons and back roads and had a ton of fun. Mostly I enjoyed using it to frighten people. Never got old :-)
Then it needed a new clutch plate and fly wheel, for $3k. Annoying, but not the end of the world. Just add to the $200 oil changes.
But then on one oil change the mechanic discovered some flecks of metal in the oil filter. They checked the dreaded IMS bearing, and found it was a strange version and they couldn't do a change, but thought it ok and recommended I keep driving.
After that every time I heard a slightly off squeak or moan I imagined the engine eating itself.
Sold it out of town to a dealer, planning to pick up a . . . Tacoma. Ended up with an FJ cruiser.
Not the most mustacian vehicle, but it's practical, very solid, and hilarious fun off road.
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Just asking - is a Tacoma vs a Beemer really a fiar comparisson? Quite differnt machines for quite different purposes.
It is absolutely not a fair comparison. I never intended to compare, I knew that the Taco would be worse. I just thought I would adapt after a while and I wouldn't care anymore, and I'd laugh all the way to the bank with my savings in time and money from not having to fix a cranky old Bimmer. That strategy has worked surprisingly well for me in other parts of my life, but it just didn't "take" with the car.
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Another way to keep things going in a more mustachean-friendly manner is doing more upkeep DIY. I don't think I could ever justify keeping a toy car around if I couldn't handle the majority of the work myself. With YouTube and internet forums dedicated to various makes/models, it's easy to keep the costs down. Going to a dealer or shop for $150 oil change or $1k+ for a brake job when I can do it for a third of that in a lazy afternoon with basic hand tools really helps the balance sheet.
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There are so many things that I find fun and exciting that a car can't offer.
There are so many other exciting vehicles, hobbies, sports, and activities that are worth pursuing or at least trying a few times. When I see so much money spent on cars I can't help but think about all the other cool things that the owner has to give up to afford the fancy car.
I'd rather have a "decent used car" plus a number of other decent used toys to enjoy too. Have you tried street bikes, dirt bikes, boats, jet skis, ATVs, or any of the pedal & paddle versions? Have you pursued any other types of hobbies? Life's short, and cars are just one of many things to enjoy.
Of course, we must all choose our own paths.
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I honestly wish I didn't, but when I drive something else, I just can't seem to hedonically adapt down. I've flirted with selling my car and getting a Honda fit or a Corolla, but I'm leery about making another "Tacoma mistake" as my wife puts it.
So are there any former car enthusiasts on the board? How did you quit?
I used to be a car person. I had subscriptions to about half a dozen car magazines, I did plenty of track days, competed at the SCCA Solo 2 National Championships, was a "Chief" for our local autoX group, competed in a fancy (i.e. expensive) car on race tires, etc.
I haven't completely given it up, but I have dramatically reduced my spending. I think the big thing is to re-think the first part of what you wrote that I quoted. You don't have to "hedonically adapt down" as you put it if you're focused on engineering excellence. In most categories there are great cars and no-so-great cars. Take the Honda Fit and the Nissan Versa. There is a ton of engineering excellence packed into the Fit, while the Versa... uh... not so much. Even so, for you even the best in that category might not be satisfying to drive, but a test drive wouldn't hurt.
One car that I absolutely love for the ratio between engineering excellence vs. cost is most generations of the Mazda Miata. There are so many little touches that keep the weight down, yet they're incredibly reliable and easy to work on. They can be efficient momentum racers, good MPG daily drivers, V8-swap firebreathers, cone-dodging Autocrossers, or retractable hardtop cruisers. But if you're not into Miatas you can find a different set of cool engineering and in-category excellence with a lot of other cars for cheap, for example used WRXs, S2000s, or older Mercedes wagons each offer a totally different take on engineering excellence. Depending on what you like there are plenty of older used cars that have attributes that make them great at something.
As others have mentioned, doing your own work is #1 for keeping costs down. My partner owns a 15 year old BMW with 160,000 miles on it. Repair costs have been extremely low because I can do most of the work myself. If you're a BMW 3-series owner you learn to keep window regulators in stock in your garage, for example. But the other thing is to buy used cars that you will enjoy both working on and driving. I'd like the driving part of owning a Mini or a VW GTI, but I'd hate every minute I was working on them so they're out.
Basically, figure out what segments you like or might want to try and which you have no interest in. Find the stars in those segments (and of course they change from year to year - the Mazda3 was a star until the current generation). Read the forums to figure out if they're a pain to work on. If you buy used, get a decent deal, and maintain and upgrade it well you can always sell it for very little or no loss if you don't like it.
Incidentally, I no longer consider myself much of a car person. The moves in the market towards SUVs, automatic transmissions, and hybrid/electric power make essentially every new car uninteresting to me. I let my subscriptions lapse, sold my last competition vehicle, and after a while I don't miss it. There is something to "out of sight out of mind" when it comes to hobbies. If you want to try to break the spell you might try cancelling any car related subscriptions and just avoid the subject online for a while. You might find like I did that you don't miss it.
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One car that I absolutely love for the ratio between engineering excellence vs. cost is most generations of the Mazda Miata.
There is a variation of Godwin's Law that deals specifically with online car enthusiast discussions inevitability ending in a debate about Miatas.
I used a 2nd generation Miata to scratch my performance car itch back in the day. The handling is of course the big selling point, not so much the straight line speed (though newer gens are no slouch in this area). I reckon Miatas have close to the highest grin/$$ ratio of any vehicle that is not a motorcycle or dune buggy.
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**Looks at forum screen name and avatar**
Nope! I have turned my car hobby into a side gig too, however, so that helps justify it. I have a small LLC that sells between 10K and 20K each year with parts I have designed for the swapped cars I am interested in.
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hmmmn , well I've tried to quit, or at least lessen the financial outlay, probably every year for the last 10 or so. After i "learned" about being debt-free/ FIRE. Probably spent up to a 1/3 of annual take home $$ on vehicles - and speed/ handling upgrades - insurance, etc. for many many years.
Some cars i broke even on, some sold for a profit, some lost $$ on. Never really had to worry about a car breaking down as there was another to drive if needed, and it geared me towards being my own mechanic, so 'saved' a bunch of money in that sense.
But to get the future cars i was lusting after [ mostly used muscle or sports cars ] I needed to churn thru the others to raise funds , costing $$ in taxes and registrations all the time. It was like having several mates, that clamored for attention, fun and intoxicating at first as you experienced them for yourself [ as opposed to just seeing / sitting in one ] - but i could move on, by selling, and moving onto the next desire. Part of the lure was the thrill of the chase, finding a low milage survivor. Some cars just "look the business", and there was an appeal of aesthetics / architecture / functionality thrown into the mix.
But that all sort of crashed when i sold a super low mile, 80's Mitsubishi Turbo, that was originally bought by a 70 yr old couple. I got into a funk where i convinced myself i needed to sell it, for the $$ as well as to pare down the collection. That car had a "welcome chime" when you opened the doors, "la-la-la-la, hm, hm , lum-dee-dee-dee" . And my approx 6 yr old kid fit great in the backseats. She was Crying when i announced i had sold it thru E-bay to head 1/2way across the country to another marque enthusiast. Later that day, i went out to the garage and wept, thinking of my kids disappointment, and that i really didn't need to sell it for the $$ i recieved, and that i was an idiot 'cause of this hobby.
So since then, anything i buy, i intend to keep for a long time.
Two of my new cars were "special order" built exactly how i wanted them, colors , certain options, etc. - Both are "headturners", not your typical family sedans. It's nice when a bus-load of kids sees the cars and get excited and gives thumbs up. Or a kid points excitedly in the gas station - "Daddy thats Batmans car ! " . On those vehicles I feel almost as if i commisioned a piece of art to be created. Without my involvment, they wouldn't exist on planet earth. They'll be passed onto my kid , if she wants them, which of course currently she does. Although there is a feeling of trepidation that my car habits could influence her to go down the same rabbit hole i did.
So now i try to temper the time, effort , and $$ spent - along with more varied pursuits - camping, martial arts, gardening, etc, so that we are living a "fuller" life. Still there is somethng great about rowing thru a manual gearbox while i feel the G-forces, in a fast, well handling car....
Sold the car-trailer this year , as just owning a trailer, aided and abbeted searching for other vehicles on craigslist.
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Another way to keep things going in a more mustachean-friendly manner is doing more upkeep DIY. I don't think I could ever justify keeping a toy car around if I couldn't handle the majority of the work myself. With YouTube and internet forums dedicated to various makes/models, it's easy to keep the costs down. Going to a dealer or shop for $150 oil change or $1k+ for a brake job when I can do it for a third of that in a lazy afternoon with basic hand tools really helps the balance sheet.
Its funny you mention this. This has always been my go-to line when someone decides to get smart and criticize me about my BMW. The parts really aren't bad for an older BMW, $300 can get a pretty good set of pads and rotors, and if you don't pay labor its a nice way to skate by and own something nicer than you would've otherwise.
With that said, I now have a toddler, and its really hard to get time to work on this stuff. Basically, time spent working on the car is time my wife has to watch my son, whereas before it was time that my wife could do whatever the hell she wanted. I still do my own maintenance, but its a bit more stressful when I know I'll have a pissed off wife upstairs if the work takes longer than I expect. Changing the fancy waterpump I mentioned...I thought SHE was the one that was going to blow a gasket, not my car.
I've got a slight valve cover gasket leak right now, and that's what prompted me to make this thread. It'll probably take me three sessions in the garage, each about 3 hours long to knock it out (look, I'm slow, okay? Book rate is 5 hours at a dealer) and I'm more bummed about the time than the cost, I'm teetering on the edge of paying the independent BMW shop down the road to do it for $800.
There are so many things that I find fun and exciting that a car can't offer.
There are so many other exciting vehicles, hobbies, sports, and activities that are worth pursuing or at least trying a few times. When I see so much money spent on cars I can't help but think about all the other cool things that the owner has to give up to afford the fancy car.
I'd rather have a "decent used car" plus a number of other decent used toys to enjoy too. Have you tried street bikes, dirt bikes, boats, jet skis, ATVs, or any of the pedal & paddle versions? Have you pursued any other types of hobbies? Life's short, and cars are just one of many things to enjoy.
Of course, we must all choose our own paths.
I get what you're saying, but how is blowing money on an ATV or a boat any better than a car? I'd even wager that my car has better resale than your ATV.
FWIW, I love cycling, but I'm starting to feel the similar to how I do with cars. Stuff has just gotten so damned expensive. The N+1 joke used to be funny, but now if you own multiple bikes, it takes a couple hundred dollars a month just to keep them functioning.
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One car that I absolutely love for the ratio between engineering excellence vs. cost is most generations of the Mazda Miata.
There is a variation of Godwin's Law that deals specifically with online car enthusiast discussions inevitability ending in a debate about Miatas.
I used a 2nd generation Miata to scratch my performance car itch back in the day. The handling is of course the big selling point, not so much the straight line speed (though newer gens are no slouch in this area). I reckon Miatas have close to the highest grin/$$ ratio of any vehicle that is not a motorcycle or dune buggy.
Well of course. Miata Is Always The Answer.
I've often wondered if I could contain my expenditures if I were to get a ratty miata and a boring reliable car. With my current setup, I basically always have to ensure that my car is in good condition, and I can't really put off spending time and money on it because its my only vehicle. I could probably stick to a budget easier with a needy second car, because I could just NOT drive it.
Then again, who knows. I might just end up pouring twice as much cash into vehicle ownership and have two perfect condition cars and a crappy savings rate.
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Just asking - is a Tacoma vs a Beemer really a fiar comparisson? Quite differnt machines for quite different purposes.
It is absolutely not a fair comparison. I never intended to compare, I knew that the Taco would be worse. I just thought I would adapt after a while and I wouldn't care anymore, and I'd laugh all the way to the bank with my savings in time and money from not having to fix a cranky old Bimmer. That strategy has worked surprisingly well for me in other parts of my life, but it just didn't "take" with the car.
I see.
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I've often wondered if I could contain my expenditures if I were to get a ratty miata and a boring reliable car.
I've wondered something similar. I can't justify it now with a family of 5, but I could totally see having a Miata and a minivan once the kids have launched :)
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I used to think that being interested in things meant having to own them, but I don't anymore.
There's nothing wrong with being a "car person", but you should question deeply why that would ever have to translate into ownership.
I'm a book person, but I don't need to own books. I'm a fine art person, but I don't need to own a ton of paintings. I'm an animal person, but I don't need to own a ton of exotic animals. And I'm a car person, but I don't need to own expensive cars. I'm a jewelry and fashion person, but I don't need to own a bunch of bling and couture. I'm a nature person, but I don't need to own a ton of land.
The wonderful things of this world can be appreciated and enjoyed without having to own them.
If owning a certain type of car will genuinely enrich your life, then you do you, but make that decision fully and don't angst about it. It either is worth spending on or it isn't.
The cars that I like aren't available for rental except at extremely inflated prices (4 figures per day for a 570S, mid three figures a day for my current car which is a 981S) and with kilometre restrictions. And track day rental in either of those cars is unheard of. If I want the thrill of having a fast car, punting it hard along twisty roads or taking it to the track, ownership is my only option. It might be different in the US where there's a more robust rental scene, or Germany where you can rent all sorts of cars and take them on track even. I know I rented a Porsche 911 in Germany and it was super cheap by Australian standards.
So the enjoyment of some car stuff does require ownership, I'm afraid.
I don't mind putting money into cars. I see it as a fun hobby.
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I didn't used to be a car guy until I started to wrench on my own vehicles more out of necessity the past few years, but I never had the money or drive to truly scratch that itch knowing how expensive it could get. Then I discovered Tyler Hoover and Hoovie's Garage (https://www.youtube.com/c/HooviesGarage/videos). Oddly, I learned about him from these forums as his video on repairing a $1500 Prius with a rebuilt battery (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSwUEVx5G3U&t=0s) is frequently linked to in (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/car-dilemma-80006/msg1725092/#msg1725092) Prius (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/i-live-pay-check-to-pay-check-even-without-debts-and-don't-know-what-to-do/msg1888276/#msg1888276) car (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/do-it-yourself-forum!/has-anyone-replaced-their-own-prius-battery/msg2430122/#msg2430122) threads (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/how-many-miles-in-used-car/msg2573903/#msg2573903) (mostly by @Dave1442397 ). Dude has definitely earned "the dumbest automotive channel in all of Youtube" moniker rightfully after he did a Fast and Furious tribute to the same said Prius and hooked nitrous up to the engine (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hac-PvKqKQc), and only reaffirms that honor with every additional video he publishes... like this one from last week where he's doing donuts in the snow with a low-mileage 25th Anniversary Countach (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ_4yOftm4k).
It satiates the vicarious fun angle on cars, and also reminds me every time I watch why I never want to own any of these vehicles. My Toyota is plenty of excitement with its caged hamsters, and the wife's Mitsu, though cheap and easy to fix, more than satiates the wrenching itch enough to never want to fix another car again.
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I'm way less into cars than I used to be. The direction technology has taken cars has removed much of the fun from them. I like the simple mechanical, analog systems. No interest in digital dashboards, bluetooth connected phones, and flappy paddle shifting. Makes it hard to find anything recent that I enjoy. Making it even more difficult, I was bit with the mid-engine bug early on (once I went mid-engine, it ruined all other drivetrain layouts for me), and those tend to be the cars that get the latest technology earliest. Old analog mid-engine cars are getting stupid expensive to buy now. With me being an all year driver (snow/ice/etc), cars don't last me forever either. At some point I'll be totally priced out of anything I like.
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@Daley Yes, I tend to watch a lot of YouTube car channels, mostly to remind me why I don't buy cool cars :)
I've always been a car guy, and have definitely spent too much on them over the years. I bought a 1994 T-Bird SC brand new, which was a lot of money for me at the time (around $24k). I put 138,000 miles on it, but still...
The last must-have was my 2004 Honda S2000, which I bought used in Feb 2005. I couldn't test drive it because it was mostly buried under a snow drift at the dealer's lot. I sold it in 2012 with 87k miles on it.
I don't drive as much these days, but when I do, it tends to be long trips for business, or family vacations. I figured out that what I really wanted on these trips was something quiet and luxurious, and I bought a 2011 Lexus LS 460 in December 2017. I've put 15,500 miles on it since I bought it, and spent $449 on oil changes and engine/cabin filters. I plan on keeping it a long time.
I could see buying an electrified resto-mod in the future. I really love some of the older American cars from the '50s, '60s, and '70s, but what I'd really like is to have those bodies with Tesla (or equivalent) running gear. There are lots of small companies out there doing conversions, but they're still very expensive.
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I'm way less into cars than I used to be. The direction technology has taken cars has removed much of the fun from them. I like the simple mechanical, analog systems. No interest in digital dashboards, bluetooth connected phones, and flappy paddle shifting. Makes it hard to find anything recent that I enjoy. Making it even more difficult, I was bit with the mid-engine bug early on (once I went mid-engine, it ruined all other drivetrain layouts for me), and those tend to be the cars that get the latest technology earliest. Old analog mid-engine cars are getting stupid expensive to buy now. With me being an all year driver (snow/ice/etc), cars don't last me forever either. At some point I'll be totally priced out of anything I like.
There is nothing quite like revving a naturally aspirated mid-engined car to redline. On the twisty roads I can average about 9.5mpg, fuel well spent if you ask me.
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I'm way less into cars than I used to be. The direction technology has taken cars has removed much of the fun from them. I like the simple mechanical, analog systems. No interest in digital dashboards, bluetooth connected phones, and flappy paddle shifting. Makes it hard to find anything recent that I enjoy. Making it even more difficult, I was bit with the mid-engine bug early on (once I went mid-engine, it ruined all other drivetrain layouts for me), and those tend to be the cars that get the latest technology earliest. Old analog mid-engine cars are getting stupid expensive to buy now. With me being an all year driver (snow/ice/etc), cars don't last me forever either. At some point I'll be totally priced out of anything I like.
I don't fully disagree with you here. I think one of the saving graces that has allowed me to still justify pursuing FIRE and cars is that I tend to like older cars. BMW ruined most of their cars right around the time I discovered MMM and I thought that was rather convenient! Keeps me from lusting after the latest and greatest. Years later though, I'm finding that its still possible to dump a ton of time and money into old, depreciated cars too.
Oh and dual clutch transmissions are awesome. Try driving a newish one, you'll be impressed. I had an Q3 rental in Italy with the 7-speed DSG, and while it was a completely underwhelming vehicle dynamically, the transmission was incredible. One of my silly dreams is to swap the DCT from a 2011-2013 135i into my current wagon. Its supposed to fit like legos, I just have to deal with purchasing and storing a wrecked car somewhere while I strip it for the motor and transmission.
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If you like the BMW, keep it, pay someone else for big projects that take too much time, and only get something else when it gets truly worn out. That’s probably more cost effective than selling it and buying something different. Figure out a realistic estimate for your yearly costs, and if those fit in your budget and with your other priorities don’t worry about them.
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I tried multiple times to quit being a car enthusiast but failed miserably. I have sold fun cars for ones that make sense financially(reliability, mpg, holding value) but I couldn't live with those cars. Quality of life matters and without my main hobby(cars), hitting FIRE doesn't make sense. I have stepped back a bit since joining MMM, instead of five project cars, I have one.
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I am still struggling. I used to get a new car every 5 years or so. Until recently, I never had a car past 100,000 miles. Now I have 2. Although I have bought "sensible" cars, I never miss a chance to visit car shows and museums. My cars are now 18 and 15 years old. I told myself I would not get rid of them until they became unreliable or expensive to maintain. I have been putting off some routine maintenance on one of the cars, kind of willing it to die so I could justify getting something newer. I finally had to admit that the car was reliable and I did the maintenance (new tires, plugs and fixed an oil leak). It will probably last another 10 years as I don't put a lot of miles on it. It has been a constant struggle to balance wants vs needs.
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I will tell you, driving around in my Fiatta with the top down during Covid has been an Important avenue of entertainment. We’ve had quite a mild winter here in St. Louis and so I’m still driving around with the top down. And the heater on. And heated seats on.
I burn gas for the sake of burning gas And I don’t care.
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I've loved cars since I was a little kid--My dad had an Omni GLH that was always broken, but when it was working, the shove into the seat along with the WOOSH of the turbo spooling was one of the big things I remember from my childhood. We'd egg him on to accelerate faster when we were merging onto freeways and I sobbed when my dad sold it. I was pissed at him for days, hard stuff for a 6 year old to manage. I had an enviable matchbox/hotwheels car collection, with all the ramps and stuff to go with it. We used to cut out pages from my dad's car magazines and hang them on the walls of my bedroom.
Basically I was screwed from birth.
I love cars, and have owned way too many of them. I currently have an 11 year old BMW, and while its not the least reliable product they make, it has a bit more involved care and feeding than a Corolla or Honda Fit which in turn takes more money and time than a Corolla or Honda Fit. I've tried to stop liking cars before--I bought a base model Tacoma a few years ago in an attempt to stop the cycle of upgrading and fiddling with BMWs, but I hated everything about it--the crappy transmission, the flexy chassis, the poor ride, the uncomfortable seats, the dim headlights, the coarse motor etc. I made it 6 months in the Tacoma before I got rid of it and got another BMW.
I think it must be easier for people who own cars to impress people, but my issue is that I notice the bad stuff, and I'm super impressed when I notice some clever engineering. For example, the BMW I own right now uses a magnesium engine block, and its one of the lightest engines on the market despite being a 3.0L inline 6. It uses an electric water pump so that it warms up faster for less engine wear, and it has a thermostat that can regulate the temperature of the motor to bias it towards efficiency or performance. It makes 230 naturally aspirated horsepower, but it can still get 30+ mpg on the highway!
I know that a lot of people don't care about that stuff. I honestly wish I didn't, but when I drive something else, I just can't seem to hedonically adapt down. I've flirted with selling my car and getting a Honda fit or a Corolla, but I'm leery about making another "Tacoma mistake" as my wife puts it.
So are there any former car enthusiasts on the board? How did you quit?
My brother is addicted to BMWs.
I enjoy architectural design, industrial design, and automotive design so while I've never been a car enthusiast I do enjoy certain classic cars.
I like early 1960s Bentleys and more than once I almost bought one but didn't because the fact is I have ZERO need for it which realization quashed my lust for it.
I also like and have been tempted by some of the cars Rolls Royce manufactured during the 1990s.
To cope with car lust mull: "Do I really need it?" "Is it necessary for my happiness and contentment?"
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My dad is an old-school drag racer, and avid Mopar nut. I remember when I was little, he always had some sort of Mopar he was wrenching on. He and my mom married VERY early (19YO) and had two kids by 21. I have heard MANY stories over the years about all the cars he passed on or missed out on because he had 4 mouths to feed…
FFWD to about 2016. Dodge had just introduced the Hellcat, putting the world on its ear with 707hp. My dad couldn’t stop talking about it, and I couldn’t stop talking and reading all the stats and figures I could. Every time I would see him, I was like “Hey Dad, did you know that the Hellcat…..”
Final one day, my dad looks at me and says “I know your financial situation. You got PLENTY enough saved for a great early retirement. Do you know how many Hemi Cudas and 440 Roadrunners I had to pass up because I wasn’t in the same financial situation you are? Stop talking about the damn Hellcat and just go BUY one already!”
So in late 2017 started looking, and was looking used, but in March of 2018, I found a dealer in SC that had a new leftover 2017 on the lot that they wanted to move, and had priced VERY below market value. I first saw the car online on Monday, called them on Tuesday, booked a plane ticket Wednesday, and drive her home (SC to OH) on Thursday.
The greatest part about owning it? I make up an excuse pretty much every week that I need dad’s truck, and I leave him the Hellcat while I borrow the truck 😉 When I come pick it up, there’s at least 50+ more miles on it than when I loaned it to him. You might say it’s kinda “our” Hellcat.
As far as “quitting” being a car guy? I forsee it happening the day I also quit breathing.
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I used to think that being interested in things meant having to own them, but I don't anymore.
There's nothing wrong with being a "car person", but you should question deeply why that would ever have to translate into ownership.
I'm a book person, but I don't need to own books. I'm a fine art person, but I don't need to own a ton of paintings. I'm an animal person, but I don't need to own a ton of exotic animals. And I'm a car person, but I don't need to own expensive cars. I'm a jewelry and fashion person, but I don't need to own a bunch of bling and couture. I'm a nature person, but I don't need to own a ton of land.
The wonderful things of this world can be appreciated and enjoyed without having to own them.
If owning a certain type of car will genuinely enrich your life, then you do you, but make that decision fully and don't angst about it. It either is worth spending on or it isn't.
The cars that I like aren't available for rental except at extremely inflated prices (4 figures per day for a 570S, mid three figures a day for my current car which is a 981S) and with kilometre restrictions. And track day rental in either of those cars is unheard of. If I want the thrill of having a fast car, punting it hard along twisty roads or taking it to the track, ownership is my only option. It might be different in the US where there's a more robust rental scene, or Germany where you can rent all sorts of cars and take them on track even. I know I rented a Porsche 911 in Germany and it was super cheap by Australian standards.
So the enjoyment of some car stuff does require ownership, I'm afraid.
I don't mind putting money into cars. I see it as a fun hobby.
Which is exactly why I specifically said that there's nothing wrong with ownership if someone feels it's worth it to them.
My point was to figure out if it's worth it and own that decision. You have made it clear for a long time that ownership is worth it to you.
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The greatest part about owning it? I make up an excuse pretty much every week that I need dad’s truck, and I leave him the Hellcat while I borrow the truck 😉 When I come pick it up, there’s at least 50+ more miles on it than when I loaned it to him. You might say it’s kinda “our” Hellcat.
As far as “quitting” being a car guy? I forsee it happening the day I also quit breathing.
Awesome story.
My brother has a 3 year old son that will not stop talking about his dads BMW and will spin donuts(run in circles making engine noises) every time I see him.
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I am a girl who likes cars. I’m not about performance I’m about pretty lines and attractive shapes.I like them but I don’t have to own them all. I like going to car shows.
I’ve had a few frivolous cars in my life, even while saving for FIRE. My first car was an MG midget. My second frivolous car was a Triumph TR 6 Which in my mind is still pretty much the ultimate sports car.Neither ran especially well and once I became a serious adult I had to have cars that were reliable.
Then when I retired, and could be unserious again and found I have plenty of money I bought a zippy little two-seater convertible, a Fiatta ( Fiat Spider made by Miata factory.) That’s always the kind of classic cars I like, small ones, usually two-seater convertible. But I like any other little odd funny cars like Metropolian Nash. Izetta from the 40’s. OG mini Cooper. If I won the lottery I would go out and buy a fleet of funny little cars.
DH is a car guy. In his life he also owned an MG midget before he met me, and then bought a TR 6 after knowing me for a while. But he likes German cars generally I think. His midlife crisis car was a 1979 Mercedes-Benz SL.
I like curvy (zaftig ha-ha!) cars because they are curvy.
The MBZs of the 1960s are among the most beautiful cars ever manufactured.
I lusted for and almost purchased one like these.
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So are there any former car enthusiasts on the board? How did you quit?
I quit by getting poor and living in the urban core. Now I'm mustachian and would rather invest the money.
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I’m a car nut and spent a lot of money when I was young on modifications for my cars.
Nowadays we as a family only have one BMW to share as a family hauler/ school run / car to polish and look after and I get a new car every 3 years.
I have been lusting after a weekend toy car for years, something just for me like a Porsche Boxster or AMG Merc, or even an old classic car.
But like the other poster mentioned just because I love them I don’t necessarily have to own it to feel excited when I see one Drive past.
Could totally afford to buy it but will keep delaying to do the smarter thing financially.
That being said I’m turning 40 at the end of this year so the mid life crisis beckons.
I want a car to keep for the long haul and wash and polish and just look at
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Two things helped break me of my car habit. First off, I moved close to work, and then eventually started to work from home full time. Getting my annual mileage down to 5000 miles or so reduced the desire for something nicer to drive. Second, I found a fun car that was way less expensive. In my case, a Mazdaspeed3 that was actually faster than the German sports cars I used to own.
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I’m just dropping in to say that I got a really smoking deal on a 2016 Miata with 8000 miles on the clock last year and it scratches every itch and gets 35 mpg doing it.
I’d avoided the Miata for a long time, but like green eggs and ham, I found that once I tried it I really liked it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I'm not sure I count myself as a "car enthusiast" but I'm a tinkerer and enjoy working on cars and motorcycles. I enjoy driving/riding them, too, but with kids I no longer have much time and I've realized that 99% of my driving is getting from A to B so there's not really any point in having a cool car. That plus the fact that I am concerned about global warming and keeping my carbon footprints down means I just can't justify driving around in something that uses a lot of gas as a daily driver.
Once I FIRE, one of the projects I might do is restore a 240Z. But I think I'll put the time into building an airplane instead, there are no speed limits and very little traffic in the sky.
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I’m a car nut and spent a lot of money when I was young on modifications for my cars.
Nowadays we as a family only have one BMW to share as a family hauler/ school run / car to polish and look after and I get a new car every 3 years.
I have been lusting after a weekend toy car for years, something just for me like a Porsche Boxster or AMG Merc, or even an old classic car.
But like the other poster mentioned just because I love them I don’t necessarily have to own it to feel excited when I see one Drive past.
Could totally afford to buy it but will keep delaying to do the smarter thing financially.
That being said I’m turning 40 at the end of this year so the mid life crisis beckons.
I want a car to keep for the long haul and wash and polish and just look at
It's fine to delay but if you want to drive a sporty car it might be good to buy it while your back/health still allows it.
The driving position isn't super comfortable in some of those cars and they take a bit of flexibility to get into/out of.
Also, if you like naturally aspirated engines (or even large capacity turbos), they are more and more becoming a thing of the past. In ten years you won't be able to buy a naturally aspirated engine, unless you want to buy a ten-year-old car.
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I’m a car nut and spent a lot of money when I was young on modifications for my cars.
Nowadays we as a family only have one BMW to share as a family hauler/ school run / car to polish and look after and I get a new car every 3 years.
I have been lusting after a weekend toy car for years, something just for me like a Porsche Boxster or AMG Merc, or even an old classic car.
But like the other poster mentioned just because I love them I don’t necessarily have to own it to feel excited when I see one Drive past.
Could totally afford to buy it but will keep delaying to do the smarter thing financially.
That being said I’m turning 40 at the end of this year so the mid life crisis beckons.
I want a car to keep for the long haul and wash and polish and just look at
It's fine to delay but if you want to drive a sporty car it might be good to buy it while your back/health still allows it.
The driving position isn't super comfortable in some of those cars and they take a bit of flexibility to get into/out of.
Also, if you like naturally aspirated engines (or even large capacity turbos), they are more and more becoming a thing of the past. In ten years you won't be able to buy a naturally aspirated engine, unless you want to buy a ten-year-old car.
But everyone will get out of your way if you are driving the last of the V-8 interceptors!
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I don't think it ever goes away.
I've had an Acura (ate transmissions like crazy), early us-spec wrx (noisey as heck), 1-ton diesel ram (pain in the ass to park) and loved them all for very different reasons.
I'm 7-years into a Subaru Outback ... without the manual transmission, I would have certainly left it by now. Everyone once in a while I look into replacing it with some more fun/luxurious/sporty/sculpted/gadget-filled.
Ultimately I never do. For two (big) reasons, plus a host of smaller reasons/justifications. First, I own the Outback outright to replace it I would have to either sell assets or take a car payment; that bothers me more than my painfully neutral feeling towards the car. Second, my commute (back when I had one) was less than 10 miles one way (often the heat will not be warm until halfway) on one mostly straight 45 mph road with one traffic light; the improvement in my life having a significantly nicer car would be minimal.
Now when I do need to replace it ... ok when the cost to keep it running overwhelms the neutral feelings I have towards the car ... I will replace it with some that goes to one extreme or the other. The bland car that seems to do everything well is just not for me, I want something that does at least one thing very well even if it means a few endearing (to me) "quirks" elsewhere.
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I've owned a Miata for the past 25 yrs or so. I read car magazines, watch car tv shows and go to local car shows. When I read about the cost to actually own and maintain many "enthusiast" cars, I can't justify it. The Miata is great because you can spend as little or as much as you like. They are extremely reliable, cheap to maintain/insure and a lot of fun to drive. Of course, there are plenty of other cars that could meet this criteria. Our last family car was an Avalon and our present one is a Altima. When it comes time to replace the Altima, we will probably step back up to a better quality car, like a Honda or Lexus. If you are willing to purchase quality used cars, you can buy amazingly good cars for a very reasonable price.
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Alternative take:
You can pour your car enthusiast passion for aerodynamics, power curves, and turning of wrenches into hypermiling/ecomodding. It's very much the exact same "game" of wringing the highest performance possible from your vehicle and driving skills, just played to achieve fuel efficiency instead of speed. It requires just as much understanding of vehicle systems, tinkering in the garage, and hatred of automatic transmissions as a normal "I'm a car guy" hobby. But you can do it with a car that works way better as your commuter/daily driver, and there is no need for track days of any sort.
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That is true but there is a visceral/emotional reaction that I (and I suspect many others) get from revving an engine with not much inertia all the way to redline. The rise and fall of the revs and the howl that it produces. Likewise an emotional reaction from hitting a curve fast and getting pinned into your seat. It makes your heart beat and the hairs on your neck stand on end. For me it gives me chills. So it's not so much the intellectual bit of tinkering (and you can do that whether on track or while hypermiling) but the emotions and adrenaline associated with hearing a howling engine and feeling the wind around me. It is very hard to replicate this short of, I don't know, going on an even more extreme activity.
As always, YMMV
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Engineering is all relative and changes over time. If you had a 2010 Tacoma truck in 1960 you would be simply amazed at the technology. The BMW tech you admire today will seem pretty boring in a couple decades. Germans love gizmos and buttons in their cars so a great choice if you like lots of engineering in the form of systems, complexity and features.
I prefer Japanese engineering as I find there is a lot more thought put into precision, durability, usability, simplicity and the "human" element of driving or riding in a car. In particular, Lexus excels at "touch and feel" of the interiors, controls, seats, engine smoothness, noise, vibration, etc. Top Gear did a video in the 90s where they put a glass of water on the motor of a revving Lexus, BMW and Mercedes. The water barely rippled on the Lexus engine but nearly splashed out of the glass on the European motors.
I've owned Mercedes, BMW, VW and countless other cars but we currently have two high-mile Lexi and are shopping for a Toyota "farm truck".
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i used to be into vw beetles. then i moved on to a 59 chevy truck. i built a 350 engine in my kitchen for the truck but i ran out of money due to getting married so i got rid of the truck and the engine. then my job had me doing a lot of driving so having reliable transportation became important. years later my gf and i were doped up on cough medicine (we had a cold) and on our morning dog walk we found a 71 vw van for sale. we bought it and pushed it home. i built a new engine for it but i didn't drive it much because the gf bought a 1959 mercedes 220 sedan. i got rid of the van. the mercedes turned into a real issue because i just wanted to drive it and she wanted to restore it. needless to say many $$$ later the car ended up getting sold for parts due to the restorer getting killed in a motorcycle crash and no one had any idea what parts were where. now i don't drive that much but i would like a miata to go on sunday drives. i'm telling myself to wait until the electric version comes out but it would be way out of my price range. i actually like the toyota sienna i drive now.
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Alternative take:
You can pour your car enthusiast passion for aerodynamics, power curves, and turning of wrenches into hypermiling/ecomodding. It's very much the exact same "game" of wringing the highest performance possible from your vehicle and driving skills, just played to achieve fuel efficiency instead of speed. It requires just as much understanding of vehicle systems, tinkering in the garage, and hatred of automatic transmissions as a normal "I'm a car guy" hobby. But you can do it with a car that works way better as your commuter/daily driver, and there is no need for track days of any sort.
As long as you don't do the stupid things like massively over inflate tires or turn your engine off at every light or merge into traffic at a fraction of the prevailing speed or all the other dangerous and counterproductive things.
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I used to own a Peugeot 306 XSi with sport suspension, nice firm steering and the best gearing of any car I've owned. After it had some mechanical issues, I sold it for pennies in the dollar and spent a year without a car.
That year without a car kinda stopped me wanting anything too fancy for a while, the next car (and it's replacement) aren't all that exciting, just boring basic transportation. When owning the 'nicer' car, I wasn't really driving it on twisty roads all that often.
Now I'm happy enough with cheap cars, although I still like small lightweight agile hatchbacks. The current car's a big sedan with a 6cyl engine and an automatic transmission.
If I do buy something else on the sportier side, it'd probably be more along the lines of another warmer/hot hatch like a Hyundai i30 N-Line or maybe a VW Golf GTI, although I've lost interest in driving a manual transmission after the last three cars were manual.
I'm also watching a lot of car-related YouTube videos, and have thought about doing some more wrenching. I was going to do an oil change/ATF change/etc on the current car, but the bonnet release mechanism has broken and I need to get a mechanic to do the roadworthy anyway, so I'll get them to do a 'catch up' service on the car and replace the bonnet release cable (I've ordered one from eBay).
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I am a girl who likes cars. I’m not about performance I’m about pretty lines and attractive shapes.I like them but I don’t have to own them all. I like going to car shows.
I’ve had a few frivolous cars in my life, even while saving for FIRE. My first car was an MG midget. My second frivolous car was a Triumph TR 6 Which in my mind is still pretty much the ultimate sports car.Neither ran especially well and once I became a serious adult I had to have cars that were reliable.
Then when I retired, and could be unserious again and found I have plenty of money I bought a zippy little two-seater convertible, a Fiatta ( Fiat Spider made by Miata factory.) That’s always the kind of classic cars I like, small ones, usually two-seater convertible. But I like any other little odd funny cars like Metropolian Nash. Izetta from the 40’s. OG mini Cooper. If I won the lottery I would go out and buy a fleet of funny little cars.
DH is a car guy. In his life he also owned an MG midget before he met me, and then bought a TR 6 after knowing me for a while. But he likes German cars generally I think. His midlife crisis car was a 1979 Mercedes-Benz SL.
I like curvy (zaftig ha-ha!) cars because they are curvy.
The MBZs of the 1960s are among the most beautiful cars ever manufactured.
I lusted for and almost purchased one like these.
These are all beautiful, by the way!
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Alternative take:
You can pour your car enthusiast passion for aerodynamics, power curves, and turning of wrenches into hypermiling/ecomodding. It's very much the exact same "game" of wringing the highest performance possible from your vehicle and driving skills, just played to achieve fuel efficiency instead of speed. It requires just as much understanding of vehicle systems, tinkering in the garage, and hatred of automatic transmissions as a normal "I'm a car guy" hobby. But you can do it with a car that works way better as your commuter/daily driver, and there is no need for track days of any sort.
As long as you don't do the stupid things like massively over inflate tires or turn your engine off at every light or merge into traffic at a fraction of the prevailing speed or all the other dangerous and counterproductive things.
Agreed. Safety is very important.
I think the level of possible dangerous behaviour and/or vehicle mods is pretty similar between the two pursuits. Either way you go, there is the potential for high levels of personal/public injury, depending on how irresponsible you want to be. But I think there's a huge range of edge-of-your-seat fun before you hit "irresponsible danger".
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I used to love cars, but maybe not as much as you do. I loved the way they felt when you could turn around tight corners. The feel of shifting in a manual transmission, and even the freedom to go where ever you could imagine. The offroad abilities of certain cars even excited me.
What I am trying to get to is, you have to look at the pros and cons of car ownership. Maintenance, gas, traffic, stress, and ownership can really cost you some money. What is the point of having a car?
I got to the point where it was just a vehicle to get me from point A to point B. I think I realized that when I moved abroad.
Being abroad lent me the opportunity to not have to rely on cars. I relied on a bike, my own two feet, and public transportation. My reliance on vehicles was gone, and therefore my love of vehicles disappeared.
Other things became important to me in life besides cars. So what you need to do is to see why you value your car? Would the cost of maintenance, gas, insurance, and anything else deter you from owning your BMW or a new fun car?
What are your goals? I am working to save for Financial Independence so car payments would deter that. Loving cars is just something I got out of.
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I,ve never tried, I know it won't work
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I am a car guy. Always have been, since the age of maybe 5 or 6. Over the years I have spent a lot of money on cars. I have always had a fairly normal day to day car but also a "weekend" car of some kind. I also used to race quite a bit in my early 20s which took up a lot of money.
I would not go back and change things. Cars give me a lot of enjoyment. Its one of those things that generally costs money to have - sure there are some people who turn their love of cars into a job but often they grow to actually dislike the cars or the job!! So for me I have always wanted to keep it a hobby.
I still have a weekend car. Its more of a classic really. I have had various sports cars over the years, 911s etc. But now I have just the one car and its actually been quite a good investment. The value has gone up quite a bit the last few years and has offset the cost of repairs and maintenance etc. So its "free motoring" in that regard.
Due to COVID its not had any use the last year, but I bought the car with the intention of driving it quite a bit once I FIRE and probably take some road trips. Its always been my dream to drive the car back to the factory where it was made and I will do that one day - hopefully sooner rather than later.
The day will come when I have to sell the car and that will be sad, but it will also be a nice injection of funds into my FIRE pot. I plan to keep the car for 3-5 years after I FIRE so if the values carry on as they have been it will be a nice little nest egg.
I dont think I will ever not be a car guy but as I get older my passion has faded a little, its probably a case of been there and done it-itus. But I still cant resist the sound of a V8 or V12... and I am sure that will be with me forever.
I think once I sell my current car I will probably keep back some of the money and buy something a bit more frugal, perhaps classic Alfa or maybe a Lotus Elise or something like that. Small and light - which is where I started out 20+ years ago so would be nice to go back full circle.
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That is true but there is a visceral/emotional reaction that I (and I suspect many others) get from revving an engine with not much inertia all the way to redline. The rise and fall of the revs and the howl that it produces. Likewise an emotional reaction from hitting a curve fast and getting pinned into your seat. It makes your heart beat and the hairs on your neck stand on end. For me it gives me chills. So it's not so much the intellectual bit of tinkering (and you can do that whether on track or while hypermiling) but the emotions and adrenaline associated with hearing a howling engine and feeling the wind around me. It is very hard to replicate this short of, I don't know, going on an even more extreme activity.
As always, YMMV
That's just one version of being a car enthusiast.
If that's your version, cool, enjoy, but others have different causes for their car passion. Some are more into the information aspect, some more into the tinkering aspect, some more into the collecting aspect.
We each have our own reasons behind car enthusiasm, some require owning an expensive car and others don't.
No judgement from me, I'm seriously considering becoming a pilot and owning a plane in the future once I figure out what I want to do when I grow up, lol.
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Alternative take:
You can pour your car enthusiast passion for aerodynamics, power curves, and turning of wrenches into hypermiling/ecomodding. It's very much the exact same "game" of wringing the highest performance possible from your vehicle and driving skills, just played to achieve fuel efficiency instead of speed. It requires just as much understanding of vehicle systems, tinkering in the garage, and hatred of automatic transmissions as a normal "I'm a car guy" hobby. But you can do it with a car that works way better as your commuter/daily driver, and there is no need for track days of any sort.
Ugh, not interested in hypermiling at all.
Engineering is all relative and changes over time. If you had a 2010 Tacoma truck in 1960 you would be simply amazed at the technology. The BMW tech you admire today will seem pretty boring in a couple decades. Germans love gizmos and buttons in their cars so a great choice if you like lots of engineering in the form of systems, complexity and features.
I prefer Japanese engineering as I find there is a lot more thought put into precision, durability, usability, simplicity and the "human" element of driving or riding in a car. In particular, Lexus excels at "touch and feel" of the interiors, controls, seats, engine smoothness, noise, vibration, etc. Top Gear did a video in the 90s where they put a glass of water on the motor of a revving Lexus, BMW and Mercedes. The water barely rippled on the Lexus engine but nearly splashed out of the glass on the European motors.
I've owned Mercedes, BMW, VW and countless other cars but we currently have two high-mile Lexi and are shopping for a Toyota "farm truck".
I think you're overgeneralizing, and the cup test you mentioned is silly for a million reasons, but I get why some people prefer different engineering approaches.
I used to love cars, but maybe not as much as you do. I loved the way they felt when you could turn around tight corners. The feel of shifting in a manual transmission, and even the freedom to go where ever you could imagine. The offroad abilities of certain cars even excited me.
What I am trying to get to is, you have to look at the pros and cons of car ownership. Maintenance, gas, traffic, stress, and ownership can really cost you some money. What is the point of having a car?
I got to the point where it was just a vehicle to get me from point A to point B. I think I realized that when I moved abroad.
Being abroad lent me the opportunity to not have to rely on cars. I relied on a bike, my own two feet, and public transportation. My reliance on vehicles was gone, and therefore my love of vehicles disappeared.
Other things became important to me in life besides cars. So what you need to do is to see why you value your car? Would the cost of maintenance, gas, insurance, and anything else deter you from owning your BMW or a new fun car?
What are your goals? I am working to save for Financial Independence so car payments would deter that. Loving cars is just something I got out of.
I think this might be the discussion I need to be having. Covid obliterated our goals when my wife was furloughed, and we slashed just about everything. We still ended up doing okay due to the slashing, but I think that seeing my car sitting in the garage with its poor weeping valve cover has triggered me a bit. I need to set realistic goals for 2021, and make a decision about whether I can still enjoy the hobby with the budget we come up with.
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OP,
I haven't really "quit," I just live in a place where a utilitarian and very off-road capable 4wd makes a lot more sense than the kind of performance car I'd enjoy driving otherwise.
But if you really want to quit being a car enthusiast, I have a one-word solution for you: Motorcycles
If you like high performance machinery, the visceral sound and feel of acceleration, braking, and high-g turns, and the irreplaceable experience of a high power to weight ratio, almost nothing compares with a motorcycle. You can go out and buy a relatively inexpensive used superbike that will be cheap to maintain and run and it will still smoke all but the very newest and highest end of supercars. In terms of adrenaline per dollar spent, no car competes with a high performance motorcycle.
YMMV (but you'll get well over 30 mpg!)
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I'd love to be a motorcyclist. So much cheaper and more thrilling. But I'm clumsy, and I'm convinced I'd die. This is also why I'm not willing to be a pilot. Cars, in comparison to light planes and motorcycles, are so much safer (at least in my perception, which may or may not be accurate) when taking moderate risks. On track or on the twisty roads in a car the worst that can happen, as long as I'm not truly an idiot, is a moderate accident.
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OP,
I haven't really "quit," I just live in a place where a utilitarian and very off-road capable 4wd makes a lot more sense than the kind of performance car I'd enjoy driving otherwise.
But if you really want to quit being a car enthusiast, I have a one-word solution for you: Motorcycles
If you like high performance machinery, the visceral sound and feel of acceleration, braking, and high-g turns, and the irreplaceable experience of a high power to weight ratio, almost nothing compares with a motorcycle. You can go out and buy a relatively inexpensive used superbike that will be cheap to maintain and run and it will still smoke all but the very newest and highest end of supercars. In terms of adrenaline per dollar spent, no car competes with a high performance motorcycle.
YMMV (but you'll get well over 30 mpg!)
Enh, I used to have motorcycles. I sold my last one in 2015. Trackdays were a silly amount of fun but they just made me realize how un-fun riding on the street is, and I eventually sold my last sportbike after it sat for several months looking forlorn in my shed. Also, this might be a regional/local thing, but I was not crazy about the community. I'm not saying everyone that rides sportbikes is an idiot, but idiots are massively over-represented in the community.
It was incredible how quickly you get used to a 0-60 time in the 3 second range though.
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OP,
I haven't really "quit," I just live in a place where a utilitarian and very off-road capable 4wd makes a lot more sense than the kind of performance car I'd enjoy driving otherwise.
But if you really want to quit being a car enthusiast, I have a one-word solution for you: Motorcycles
If you like high performance machinery, the visceral sound and feel of acceleration, braking, and high-g turns, and the irreplaceable experience of a high power to weight ratio, almost nothing compares with a motorcycle. You can go out and buy a relatively inexpensive used superbike that will be cheap to maintain and run and it will still smoke all but the very newest and highest end of supercars. In terms of adrenaline per dollar spent, no car competes with a high performance motorcycle.
YMMV (but you'll get well over 30 mpg!)
Don't forget one of the best things about motorcycles (especially when riding hard!): the high probability of having an opportunity to pass your stash on to your next of kin before you spend it down. Oh, and your vital organs on to those on need.
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Alternative take:
You can pour your car enthusiast passion for aerodynamics, power curves, and turning of wrenches into hypermiling/ecomodding. It's very much the exact same "game" of wringing the highest performance possible from your vehicle and driving skills, just played to achieve fuel efficiency instead of speed. It requires just as much understanding of vehicle systems, tinkering in the garage, and hatred of automatic transmissions as a normal "I'm a car guy" hobby. But you can do it with a car that works way better as your commuter/daily driver, and there is no need for track days of any sort.
Ugh, not interested in hypermiling at all.
Engineering is all relative and changes over time. If you had a 2010 Tacoma truck in 1960 you would be simply amazed at the technology. The BMW tech you admire today will seem pretty boring in a couple decades. Germans love gizmos and buttons in their cars so a great choice if you like lots of engineering in the form of systems, complexity and features.
I prefer Japanese engineering as I find there is a lot more thought put into precision, durability, usability, simplicity and the "human" element of driving or riding in a car. In particular, Lexus excels at "touch and feel" of the interiors, controls, seats, engine smoothness, noise, vibration, etc. Top Gear did a video in the 90s where they put a glass of water on the motor of a revving Lexus, BMW and Mercedes. The water barely rippled on the Lexus engine but nearly splashed out of the glass on the European motors.
I've owned Mercedes, BMW, VW and countless other cars but we currently have two high-mile Lexi and are shopping for a Toyota "farm truck".
I think you're overgeneralizing, and the cup test you mentioned is silly for a million reasons, but I get why some people prefer different engineering approaches.
I used to love cars, but maybe not as much as you do. I loved the way they felt when you could turn around tight corners. The feel of shifting in a manual transmission, and even the freedom to go where ever you could imagine. The offroad abilities of certain cars even excited me.
What I am trying to get to is, you have to look at the pros and cons of car ownership. Maintenance, gas, traffic, stress, and ownership can really cost you some money. What is the point of having a car?
I got to the point where it was just a vehicle to get me from point A to point B. I think I realized that when I moved abroad.
Being abroad lent me the opportunity to not have to rely on cars. I relied on a bike, my own two feet, and public transportation. My reliance on vehicles was gone, and therefore my love of vehicles disappeared.
Other things became important to me in life besides cars. So what you need to do is to see why you value your car? Would the cost of maintenance, gas, insurance, and anything else deter you from owning your BMW or a new fun car?
What are your goals? I am working to save for Financial Independence so car payments would deter that. Loving cars is just something I got out of.
I think this might be the discussion I need to be having. Covid obliterated our goals when my wife was furloughed, and we slashed just about everything. We still ended up doing okay due to the slashing, but I think that seeing my car sitting in the garage with its poor weeping valve cover has triggered me a bit. I need to set realistic goals for 2021, and make a decision about whether I can still enjoy the hobby with the budget we come up with.
Covid put a lot of our goals in perspective. The threat of being furloughed has changed how view some of our hobbies. With cars it gets to the point of seeing if this hobby is worth the amount of money and time we are putting into it.
Maybe, once you reach Financial Independence you will have a new appreciation of your old hobby.
Focus on your goals, focus on where you see yourself in the future.
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My good friend was a major car guy, quite a bit of his disposable income went into doing mods, fixing up cars, owning cars, etc. When he decided to get serious about his finances he reframed his love for cars. He became interested in more of the engineering and history. He started a YouTube channel doing detailed walk throughs of year over year changes to cars and started writing a car history blog. Way cheaper but he still gets to love cars and be part of that community.
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OP,
I haven't really "quit," I just live in a place where a utilitarian and very off-road capable 4wd makes a lot more sense than the kind of performance car I'd enjoy driving otherwise.
But if you really want to quit being a car enthusiast, I have a one-word solution for you: Motorcycles
If you like high performance machinery, the visceral sound and feel of acceleration, braking, and high-g turns, and the irreplaceable experience of a high power to weight ratio, almost nothing compares with a motorcycle. You can go out and buy a relatively inexpensive used superbike that will be cheap to maintain and run and it will still smoke all but the very newest and highest end of supercars. In terms of adrenaline per dollar spent, no car competes with a high performance motorcycle.
YMMV (but you'll get well over 30 mpg!)
Enh, I used to have motorcycles. I sold my last one in 2015. Trackdays were a silly amount of fun but they just made me realize how un-fun riding on the street is, and I eventually sold my last sportbike after it sat for several months looking forlorn in my shed. Also, this might be a regional/local thing, but I was not crazy about the community. I'm not saying everyone that rides sportbikes is an idiot, but idiots are massively over-represented in the community.
It was incredible how quickly you get used to a 0-60 time in the 3 second range though.
Yes, idiots are WAY over-represented in the sport bike community. I think it's because to actually use anywhere close to the capabilities of those bikes on the street you have to ignore the laws. There are several that can break any speed limit in the US without leaving first gear. The only "safe" place to ride a bike like that is on a track meant for motorcycles (with open spaces to wreck rather than walls to hit). I used to have a relatively slow sportbike. Even it was WAY overkill for the street. I'm a fairly law abiding citizen but it sure is tempting to twist that throttle when you have that instant acceleration on tap.
One common and true saying is "it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow". In other words, you can have fun riding a Kawasaki Ninja 250 hard and not exceed the speed limit by that much. Riding a Ninja 1000 at the same speed is very boring because it has 5X the hp and you are only using 1/4 of them. The ninja 250 or 300 is fun to ride at that pace, you won't get in so much trouble and you are MUCH less likely to kill yourself. Plus, you will get WAY better MPG, tires are cheaper, and tires last longer.
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I was a car racing enthusiast, if that counts. I mostly raced shifter carts and various types of motorcycles when I was young and dumb.
That's actually a super cheap hobby, though, and it doesn't make you care one whit about "normal" cars, because those feel like driving a mule.
I don't understand people who are into street legal cars. Crazy offroad Jeeps? Sure. Autocross? Awesome, the answer to everything is Miata. MX racing? Rad, though it was a little too rad for my left knee.
But, like, what on earth do you do with a nice street legal car? Drive it over the speed limit/recklessly on public roads? Just have it to show off how you have a fancy car? Take it to track day and get smoked by a bunch of old guys and kids in Miatas? I don't get it.
-W
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OP,
I haven't really "quit," I just live in a place where a utilitarian and very off-road capable 4wd makes a lot more sense than the kind of performance car I'd enjoy driving otherwise.
But if you really want to quit being a car enthusiast, I have a one-word solution for you: Motorcycles
If you like high performance machinery, the visceral sound and feel of acceleration, braking, and high-g turns, and the irreplaceable experience of a high power to weight ratio, almost nothing compares with a motorcycle. You can go out and buy a relatively inexpensive used superbike that will be cheap to maintain and run and it will still smoke all but the very newest and highest end of supercars. In terms of adrenaline per dollar spent, no car competes with a high performance motorcycle.
YMMV (but you'll get well over 30 mpg!)
Enh, I used to have motorcycles. I sold my last one in 2015. Trackdays were a silly amount of fun but they just made me realize how un-fun riding on the street is, and I eventually sold my last sportbike after it sat for several months looking forlorn in my shed. Also, this might be a regional/local thing, but I was not crazy about the community. I'm not saying everyone that rides sportbikes is an idiot, but idiots are massively over-represented in the community.
It was incredible how quickly you get used to a 0-60 time in the 3 second range though.
Yes, idiots are WAY over-represented in the sport bike community. I think it's because to actually use anywhere close to the capabilities of those bikes on the street you have to ignore the laws. There are several that can break any speed limit in the US without leaving first gear. The only "safe" place to ride a bike like that is on a track meant for motorcycles (with open spaces to wreck rather than walls to hit). I used to have a relatively slow sportbike. Even it was WAY overkill for the street. I'm a fairly law abiding citizen but it sure is tempting to twist that throttle when you have that instant acceleration on tap.
One common and true saying is "it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow". In other words, you can have fun riding a Kawasaki Ninja 250 hard and not exceed the speed limit by that much. Riding a Ninja 1000 at the same speed is very boring because it has 5X the hp and you are only using 1/4 of them. The ninja 250 or 300 is fun to ride at that pace, you won't get in so much trouble and you are MUCH less likely to kill yourself. Plus, you will get WAY better MPG, tires are cheaper, and tires last longer.
I think there's a sweet spot of exciting, high performance bikes that aren't superbikes. Something like a KTM Duke 690 makes "only" about 70 horsepower, but it only weighs around 330 pounds. That power to weight ratio is definitely in supercar territory. They are a lot of fun in real world riding and you can actually make use of a lot of their capability without killing yourself or losing your license.
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I think there's a sweet spot of exciting, high performance bikes that aren't superbikes. Something like a KTM Duke 690 makes "only" about 70 horsepower, but it only weighs around 330 pounds. That power to weight ratio is definitely in supercar territory. They are a lot of fun in real world riding and you can actually make use of a lot of their capability without killing yourself or losing your license.
That's another good option. Not quite as frugal as a ninja250 but lots of smiles/dollar. Still WAY cheaper than a supercar. The KTM is still going to have the temptation to break the law. Is it possible to ride something like that without doing wheelies?
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I think I am contractually obligated to post something in this thread.
I don't think there is any need to stop being a car enthusiast. There are ways to enjoy cars for every type of enthusiast for every budget. Porsche too expensive? Consider a Miata. Environmental impact have you concerned? Look at performance electric cars. Don't have space for cars? Maybe start collecting some die-cast models. You absolutely must own a BMW? Break your turn signal stalk (just kidding). Etc.
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Another idea to replace being a car enthusiast could be electric bikes. You could build and tinker with a pretty nice electric bike for a couple thousand (more or less). If you live in an area where that can replace a significant portion of your transportation needs the bike could pay for itself. I've never ridden one but they look like lots of fun.
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I will tell you, driving around in my Fiatta with the top down during Covid has been an Important avenue of entertainment. We’ve had quite a mild winter here in St. Louis and so I’m still driving around with the top down. And the heater on. And heated seats on.
I burn gas for the sake of burning gas And I don’t care.
I bought the 124 Spider last summer. Great car! I too look for an excuse to go for a drive. I had an '83 VW GTI in HS and college, and that was a lot of fun. The Spider is less practical, but way more fun than the GTI. Have you done any mods yet? I'm thinking about the exhaust....
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I was a car racing enthusiast, if that counts. I mostly raced shifter carts and various types of motorcycles when I was young and dumb.
That's actually a super cheap hobby, though, and it doesn't make you care one whit about "normal" cars, because those feel like driving a mule.
I don't understand people who are into street legal cars. Crazy offroad Jeeps? Sure. Autocross? Awesome, the answer to everything is Miata. MX racing? Rad, though it was a little too rad for my left knee.
But, like, what on earth do you do with a nice street legal car? Drive it over the speed limit/recklessly on public roads? Just have it to show off how you have a fancy car? Take it to track day and get smoked by a bunch of old guys and kids in Miatas? I don't get it.
-W
Right car, right road, good weather, amazing scenery. You should try it. Cars don't need to be a competition and winning on a track day is pointless, you go racing for that.
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Yeah, but you're just *sitting there*.
I can go for a bike ride or a hike and look at great views in great weather too, but I'm not sitting on my ass in a depreciating expensive item that, unless it's a Tesla, is actively pumping awful stuff into the air. I used to live in Salt Lake, so I can tell you what's coming out of your tailpipe from firsthand experience.
It's like watching TV but more dangerous and worse for the environment.
-W
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Yeah, but you're just *sitting there*.
I can go for a bike ride or a hike and look at great views in great weather too, but I'm not sitting on my ass in a depreciating expensive item that, unless it's a Tesla, is actively pumping awful stuff into the air. I used to live in Salt Lake, so I can tell you what's coming out of your tailpipe from firsthand experience.
It's like watching TV but more dangerous and worse for the environment.
-W
I also hike, mountain bike, camp, etc.
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You absolutely must own a BMW? Break your turn signal stalk and stick M badges everywhere.
FTFY. ;)
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I also hike, mountain bike, camp, etc.
Sounds like you're ready to stop being a car enthusiast and just use the car as a boring tool that gets you around, then!
-W
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You absolutely must own a BMW? Break your turn signal stalk and stick M badges everywhere.
FTFY. ;)
*chef's kiss*
Perfect
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I like aircooled engines. I really like all the engineering choices required to make an antique design like that last.
Even better when they are behind the passenger compartment. Tons of cars to choose from in that category. I own a couple.
Also led to motorcycles until we started having kids years ago. Never had a ticket, never had a wreck on motorcycles but I decided that they needed to go away while the kids were living at home for reasons of responsibility. DW enjoyed us having a motorcycle too but she was supportive in this decision. Not sure if I'll ever have another bike or not.
Still have aircooled cars. Progress on their restoration has been at a stand still over the years while we put our time and money into other directions (mortgage, education, etc).
When we couldn't afford cars I was still tinkering with other things. Antique analog electronics for example. Carpentry. Cabinetry.
One cheap solution when you don't have a car of your own to work on is to help a friend with their car project a little. Or volunteer at one of the museums - train, plane or car.
Check out Lane Motor Museum. Really worth the trip. https://www.lanemotormuseum.org
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Yeah, but you're just *sitting there*.
I can go for a bike ride or a hike and look at great views in great weather too, but I'm not sitting on my ass in a depreciating expensive item that, unless it's a Tesla, is actively pumping awful stuff into the air. I used to live in Salt Lake, so I can tell you what's coming out of your tailpipe from firsthand experience.
It's like watching TV but more dangerous and worse for the environment.
-W
Many cars do not depreciate much, if at all, if you buy them at the right part of the depreciation curve. Even expensive cars like a GT3 or a 458 will not depreciate much if at all. In my country it's easy to write it all off as a business expense anyway, if you're self employed. And I like the sensation of "pumping awful stuff into the air" - the thrill of a naturally aspirated flat 6 or V8 or V10 engine is just too much for me, and cars sure sound a heck of a lot nicer than the awful chug of a motorcycle. There's also no danger to driving a car hard as long as you do it in controlled conditions.
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And I like the sensation of "pumping awful stuff into the air"
Fair enough.
-W
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I never was a car person, but I do love trucks and vans not for their form but for their function. Over the past ten years, I did spend a ridiculous amount of money on pickup trucks, campervans and the likes because they allowed me to do what I love which is to go on multi-month road and camping trips (aka overlanding). When I am falling asleep at night and do a mental tally of how much money I wasted on trucks/vans/campers in the past few years on vehicle purchase, maintenance, repairs, upgrades, etc., I get slightly nauseous even before I am done counting. My current rig is a small but very versatile and surprisingly very roomy Mitsubishi Delica van diesel 4x4 that I love -and hate, but it is now 25 years old and a bit too old to take on my next post-covid-19 adventure (travel from Northern Canada to Patagonia), so I am currently looking at offerings for a new vehicle (on a couple of other tabs as I am typing this). I'd love a Sportsmobile 4x4 or a Mercedes Sprinter 4x4 but the price tag would definitely derail my retirement budget...Funny thing, I was always frugal and I am now retired, but YOLO has never felt so tempting...
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You guys crack me up. Its like I'm trying to quit smoking and you're all like, "here, try heroin instead, it'll destroy your liver but your lungs will be fine!". For now I guess I'll stick with smoking (figuratively).
I think I am contractually obligated to post something in this thread.
I don't think there is any need to stop being a car enthusiast. There are ways to enjoy cars for every type of enthusiast for every budget. Porsche too expensive? Consider a Miata. Environmental impact have you concerned? Look at performance electric cars. Don't have space for cars? Maybe start collecting some die-cast models. You absolutely must own a BMW? Break your turn signal stalk (just kidding). Etc.
My (15 month old) son is absolutely insane for matchbox/hotwheels cars, they're just the right size to fit in his little hands. He's technically not old enough to be playing with them so he needs supervision, but he loves to "drive" them on the couch making car noises. The poor kid is doomed just like me.
I just got him a Corvette C6R and a BMW 2002Tii, MY favorites. His favorites are a Raptor, a Honda Civic Si and a Taco truck. Like, a food truck that says, "tacos" on the side. Gotta love toddlers.
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I think there's a sweet spot of exciting, high performance bikes that aren't superbikes. Something like a KTM Duke 690 makes "only" about 70 horsepower, but it only weighs around 330 pounds. That power to weight ratio is definitely in supercar territory. They are a lot of fun in real world riding and you can actually make use of a lot of their capability without killing yourself or losing your license.
That's another good option. Not quite as frugal as a ninja250 but lots of smiles/dollar. Still WAY cheaper than a supercar. The KTM is still going to have the temptation to break the law. Is it possible to ride something like that without doing wheelies?
Certainly it is. I am a prime example. I never succumbed to the temptation to lift a front wheel. I only rode my KTM to church on Sundays. Well under the speed limit. Really.
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Like RWD, I feel obliged to post something in this thread, based on username. As a lifelong car nut, I have similar advice.
I have 3 fun cars, all slightly different versions of the same car, the early 1980s Alfa Romeo GTV6. One is a more powerful car that I use for fun track days with my similarly-minded mates, another is my own first car, bought 2nd hand as a student and the 3rd a rare version (one of 208 built) that is currently under restoration.
The 2 non-rare cars are collectively worth very little (peanuts) but provide much entertainment and pleasure at very low cost. I have a global network of contacts to source any parts I can't find locally, while some parts can be machined from scratch when we get a few made.
Don't quit being an enthusiast, perhaps just focus on a "cheaper" niche.
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Yeah, but you're just *sitting there*.
I can go for a bike ride or a hike and look at great views in great weather too, but I'm not sitting on my ass in a depreciating expensive item that, unless it's a Tesla, is actively pumping awful stuff into the air. I used to live in Salt Lake, so I can tell you what's coming out of your tailpipe from firsthand experience.
It's like watching TV but more dangerous and worse for the environment.
-W
I sold 4-5 classics a decade or so ago that are now bringing 3-5X what I sold them for in similar condition; so not all cars are depreciating assets.
As far as pollution, I currently live in Salt Lake and I've never experienced pollution like we have here, so I get your point on that. When you can literally taste the air on a good day, there's a problem.
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Honda Prelude, Mitsubishi Evo (spent way too much upgrading), Nissan 240sx, '82 Mercedes 240D, Mitsubishi Ralliart, Jeep Wrangler Unlimited, Ford Focus, VW Golf TDI, Datsun 280, Ford Fusion, Chevy Malibu, Toyota Tacoma TRD, Ford Fiesta ST, Chevy Colorado ZR2 diesel.
On averaging I was buying a new car each year. I would go from a fun car or two and then try to be smart and downgrade to a cheap econo. Then I would get bored and splurge on a fun toy. The ZR2 diesel being my latest at close to $50k.
I ripped the bandaid off though. Sold my ZR2 in November and have been "carless" the last three months. The wife still has her Mazda that we use for groceries and longer trips. Otherwise I walk in the freezing single digit temps of Wisconsin.
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I've loved cars since I was a little kid--My dad had an Omni GLH that was always broken, but when it was working, the shove into the seat along with the WOOSH of the turbo spooling was one of the big things I remember from my childhood. We'd egg him on to accelerate faster when we were merging onto freeways and I sobbed when my dad sold it. I was pissed at him for days, hard stuff for a 6 year old to manage. I had an enviable matchbox/hotwheels car collection, with all the ramps and stuff to go with it. We used to cut out pages from my dad's car magazines and hang them on the walls of my bedroom.
Basically I was screwed from birth.
I love cars, and have owned way too many of them. I currently have an 11 year old BMW, and while its not the least reliable product they make, it has a bit more involved care and feeding than a Corolla or Honda Fit which in turn takes more money and time than a Corolla or Honda Fit. I've tried to stop liking cars before--I bought a base model Tacoma a few years ago in an attempt to stop the cycle of upgrading and fiddling with BMWs, but I hated everything about it--the crappy transmission, the flexy chassis, the poor ride, the uncomfortable seats, the dim headlights, the coarse motor etc. I made it 6 months in the Tacoma before I got rid of it and got another BMW.
I think it must be easier for people who own cars to impress people, but my issue is that I notice the bad stuff, and I'm super impressed when I notice some clever engineering. For example, the BMW I own right now uses a magnesium engine block, and its one of the lightest engines on the market despite being a 3.0L inline 6. It uses an electric water pump so that it warms up faster for less engine wear, and it has a thermostat that can regulate the temperature of the motor to bias it towards efficiency or performance. It makes 230 naturally aspirated horsepower, but it can still get 30+ mpg on the highway!
I know that a lot of people don't care about that stuff. I honestly wish I didn't, but when I drive something else, I just can't seem to hedonically adapt down. I've flirted with selling my car and getting a Honda fit or a Corolla, but I'm leery about making another "Tacoma mistake" as my wife puts it.
So are there any former car enthusiasts on the board? How did you quit?
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Im a car guy. For a while my cars were getting worse and worse. I started rebuilding a spitfire when I was 17 and ended with a ford. I realized because i can fix everything on a car, and do it all myself, its was about as expensive to fix the 20 year old ford I had as to fix a 10 year old Audi. So I got an Audi and I love the manual, turbo charged driving experience, but I paid $3k (the most I have ever spent on a car) and I enjoy fixing all the stuff on it. That gives me my car fix.
Now I'm retired I wondered about getting an old e type jag, and fixing it up, I always wanted a V12 as a kid and I probably have the time to do a glass out rebuild.
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Im a car guy. For a while my cars were getting worse and worse. I started rebuilding a spitfire when I was 17 and ended with a ford. I realized because i can fix everything on a car, and do it all myself, its was about as expensive to fix the 20 year old ford I had as to fix a 10 year old Audi. So I got an Audi and I love the manual, turbo charged driving experience, but I paid $3k (the most I have ever spent on a car) and I enjoy fixing all the stuff on it. That gives me my car fix.
Now I'm retired I wondered about getting an old e type jag, and fixing it up, I always wanted a V12 as a kid and I probably have the time to do a glass out rebuild.
Are you kidding? You could have an XKE?!!! Do it do it do it!!!!
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Sometimes you can't pick what brings you joy. But you can express that interest in more or less financially responsible ways. For example a bunch of guys in my family are really into cars.
My two uncles used to buy, fix up, and sell cars as a side business. My little brother always had the "bug". He started with models as a kid and went from there. Took a AutoCAD course and designed an engine. Self taught enough he worked as a diagnotechnician at a dealership. Hes into mororcycle (maybe even more than cars), and has a rotating collection of bikes he buys, fixes up, rides, then sells if something else catches his eye. I'm not going to complain about his hobby because he has helped a number of family members save money on vehicles, by going along, test drive, inspect, also negotiate. He also does a lot of the maintenance/small repairs. I think you just need to know yourself, and keep to a budget that makes sense for you to maximize enjoyment per dollar.
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I agree with others. I don't think you need to give up something you enjoy. Just keep things balanced.
I have no intention of giving up my hobby since teenager. I just incorporate it in my FATFIRE calc.
I also agree with Miata Is Always The Answer. (my sig is the giveaway).
Much better than Broke My Wallet.
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I also agree with Miata Is Always The Answer. (my sig is the giveaway).
I agreed with this a couple days ago, BUT then I started looking at them. I totally don't fit in a Miata. I'm 6'2" and 190 pounds, and when I sit in one, all I see is windshield frame. I'll bet I couldn't pass a broomstick test with a helmet on even sitting on the floor pan. Also, has anyone here seen what Miatas are going for these days? I can buy a clean-ish E46 for LESS than a beat Miata.
Unfortunately, Miata is not the answer for me. Minata basically.
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I also agree with Miata Is Always The Answer. (my sig is the giveaway).
I agreed with this a couple days ago, BUT then I started looking at them. I totally don't fit in a Miata. I'm 6'2" and 190 pounds, and when I sit in one, all I see is windshield frame. I'll bet I couldn't pass a broomstick test with a helmet on even sitting on the floor pan. Also, has anyone here seen what Miatas are going for these days? I can buy a clean-ish E46 for LESS than a beat Miata.
Unfortunately, Miata is not the answer for me. Minata basically.
I am old and fat and cannot get out of my .Fiatta gracefully but I am not tall, so I fit fine.
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I also agree with Miata Is Always The Answer. (my sig is the giveaway).
I agreed with this a couple days ago, BUT then I started looking at them. I totally don't fit in a Miata. I'm 6'2" and 190 pounds, and when I sit in one, all I see is windshield frame. I'll bet I couldn't pass a broomstick test with a helmet on even sitting on the floor pan. Also, has anyone here seen what Miatas are going for these days? I can buy a clean-ish E46 for LESS than a beat Miata.
Unfortunately, Miata is not the answer for me. Minata basically.
I am old and fat and cannot get out of my .Fiatta gracefully but I am not tall, so I fit fine.
I feel like this is me when I sit in a miata:
(https://www.wfmu.org/Gfx/user_images/Dingo_5942040067024427.gif)
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Eh, how bad could it be?
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i'm 6'5" so i was wondering if i would fit. i got to drive one with the top up and i fit fine but i have poor posture so maybe there's that. i had a honda crx si back in the day and i fit in that barely.
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I also agree with Miata Is Always The Answer. (my sig is the giveaway).
I agreed with this a couple days ago, BUT then I started looking at them. I totally don't fit in a Miata. I'm 6'2" and 190 pounds, and when I sit in one, all I see is windshield frame. I'll bet I couldn't pass a broomstick test with a helmet on even sitting on the floor pan. Also, has anyone here seen what Miatas are going for these days? I can buy a clean-ish E46 for LESS than a beat Miata.
Unfortunately, Miata is not the answer for me. Minata basically.
I am old and fat and cannot get out of my .Fiatta gracefully but I am not tall, so I fit fine.
I feel like this is me when I sit in a miata:
(https://www.wfmu.org/Gfx/user_images/Dingo_5942040067024427.gif)
Well yeah, it’s like you are in a cockpit. That’s part of the driving experience! Little sports cars aren’t supposed to be comfortable. I am old now, but when I am super old I plan to trade this .Fiatta in for a more comfortable Benz convertible but I know .I will never love that German hunk as I have loved my little roadsters.
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Yeah a friend of mine used to have an NC MX-5 that I was a passenger in a few times, and it cured me of any desire to own one. That and I sunburn way too easily for a convertible to be worth owning, any days where it's warm enough to take the top down the UV is going to be too high 🙂
Although if I knew ten years ago how much old S13s and R32s/R33s and other Japanese coupes would be worth now I probably would have bought one. Used to be able to find a rough S13 Silvia for pocket change, and R33 GTS-Ts for under $10K. Not now!
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To the above comment.
A 1000cc crotch rocket has that feeling in indescribable amounts. Most people never experience it but once you do everything seems so slow. Unfortunately they also will kill you rather quickly. So I don't ride any more. I still love that sound of an engine screaming up to 10k plus rpm.
As far as luxury value goes - I've found Infiniti to be a really good brand used. They sell lower than acura and lexus and are still decent. You also never hear of any transmission problems or any issues with their V6 engines.
Miata is awesome in the curves, but I didn't enjoy driving it.
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To the above comment.
A 1000cc crotch rocket has that feeling in indescribable amounts. Most people never experience it but once you do everything seems so slow. Unfortunately they also will kill you rather quickly. So I don't ride any more. I still love that sound of an engine screaming up to 10k plus rpm.
As far as luxury value goes - I've found Infiniti to be a really good brand used. They sell lower than acura and lexus and are still decent. You also never hear of any transmission problems or any issues with their V6 engines.
Miata is awesome in the curves, but I didn't enjoy driving it.
I far preferred driving the RX7 and RX8 to the Miata, but fuck, with that absolute garbage fuel efficiency, why bother?
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To the above comment.
A 1000cc crotch rocket has that feeling in indescribable amounts. Most people never experience it but once you do everything seems so slow. Unfortunately they also will kill you rather quickly. So I don't ride any more. I still love that sound of an engine screaming up to 10k plus rpm.
As far as luxury value goes - I've found Infiniti to be a really good brand used. They sell lower than acura and lexus and are still decent. You also never hear of any transmission problems or any issues with their V6 engines.
Miata is awesome in the curves, but I didn't enjoy driving it.
I far preferred driving the RX7 and RX8 to the Miata, but fuck, with that absolute garbage fuel efficiency, why bother?
Because what other engine can scream to 10k+ RPM comfortably!? I cant believe I forgot to mention it.
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I miss the days when I passed up a Hemi Barracuda because, "Who in their right mind would pay $4500 for an old muscle car?" $1500 for a big block Challenger . . . LOL!
I have now been priced out of older muscle cars.
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To the above comment.
A 1000cc crotch rocket has that feeling in indescribable amounts. Most people never experience it but once you do everything seems so slow. Unfortunately they also will kill you rather quickly. So I don't ride any more. I still love that sound of an engine screaming up to 10k plus rpm.
As far as luxury value goes - I've found Infiniti to be a really good brand used. They sell lower than acura and lexus and are still decent. You also never hear of any transmission problems or any issues with their V6 engines.
Miata is awesome in the curves, but I didn't enjoy driving it.
I've resisted crotch rockets because I didn't trust my throttle hand. Now that I'm older I finally decided to give one a try. I never liked the hunched over seating position of a race bike, but the BMW S1000XR has the 12,000 rpm 160 Hp (which is detuned from the 200 Hp race version), so I picked one up last November. It's really fast and sounds incredible, but I'm not 100% sure that it's the "right" bike for me. The majority of my street riding is on the NC/TN mountain twisty backroads which are probably better suited to a supermoto. Maybe I'll try one of those & keep whichever wins my heart. There's a Husky dealer a couple of miles away & I'm sure he'd love to send me home with a 701. :)
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If you're thinking of a bike, then try a honda grom. 125cc and tiny, the sort of bike that takes a lot of effort to get to move quick, and only a second of distraction to loose that hard won speed.
hold their value really well, do 100mpg, just generally brilliant
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I started out with a couple of Corvettes, my first one was a 66, my second was a 86. Then I got into old Porsche 911, I had 5 1969-1973. I tried to not pay to much, kept them for a while and they were in better shape when I sold them, all for more than I had in them. Much cheaper than your everyday cars that are basically worth nothing after a few years.
Then I got the airplane bug and sold my 911s for a plane. Owned it for 8 years and sold it due to the wife getting scared during a trip.
I did keep a Boxster, but sold it for a new Jeep Wrangler. I needed something a little more practical.
Now I have a boat, it’s always something.
I probably won’t buy anymore fun cars, but I may get a fun plane.
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I still love that sound of an engine screaming up to 10k plus rpm.
High revving engines should be celebrated. Even before emissions requirements came in, they were far too rare.
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I still love that sound of an engine screaming up to 10k plus rpm.
High revving engines should be celebrated. Even before emissions requirements came in, they were far too rare.
The upcoming GMA (Gordon Murray Automotive) T.50 is going to have a V12 with a 12.1k RPM redline. In neutral it can rev from idle to redline in less than half a second. Extremely unique for a street car.
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I started out with a couple of Corvettes, my first one was a 66, my second was a 86. Then I got into old Porsche 911, I had 5 1969-1973. I tried to not pay to much, kept them for a while and they were in better shape when I sold them, all for more than I had in them. Much cheaper than your everyday cars that are basically worth nothing after a few years.
Then I got the airplane bug and sold my 911s for a plane. Owned it for 8 years and sold it due to the wife getting scared during a trip.
I did keep a Boxster, but sold it for a new Jeep Wrangler. I needed something a little more practical.
Now I have a boat, it’s always something.
I probably won’t buy anymore fun cars, but I may get a fun plane.
What types of planes appeal to you? I've been looking are amphibian planes and think a Lake Buccaneer would be a lot of fun. They seem to be relatively affordable considering that they're amphibious. I soloed years ago when I was a teen, but never got licensed, so I'm planning to do that after getting vaccinated.
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I still love that sound of an engine screaming up to 10k plus rpm.
High revving engines should be celebrated. Even before emissions requirements came in, they were far too rare.
The upcoming GMA (Gordon Murray Automotive) T.50 is going to have a V12 with a 12.1k RPM redline. In neutral it can rev from idle to redline in less than half a second. Extremely unique for a street car.
Oh yes, my god, that car is delicious. It's obviously out of my price range, but it's such a work of art.
It's sad that engine sweep (moment of inertia) isn't a more standardised measure...because it really characterises a good engine. One that goes up and down quickly and cleanly.
I timed my current car (which is very similar to yours, RWD!) and it was about half a second from 4500 to 7800 which is still pretty good by road car standards. Half a sec from 2000 to 12000 is immense.
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I started out with a couple of Corvettes, my first one was a 66, my second was a 86. Then I got into old Porsche 911, I had 5 1969-1973. I tried to not pay to much, kept them for a while and they were in better shape when I sold them, all for more than I had in them. Much cheaper than your everyday cars that are basically worth nothing after a few years.
Then I got the airplane bug and sold my 911s for a plane. Owned it for 8 years and sold it due to the wife getting scared during a trip.
I did keep a Boxster, but sold it for a new Jeep Wrangler. I needed something a little more practical.
Now I have a boat, it’s always something.
I probably won’t buy anymore fun cars, but I may get a fun plane.
What types of planes appeal to you? I've been looking are amphibian planes and think a Lake Buccaneer would be a lot of fun. They seem to be relatively affordable considering that they're amphibious. I soloed years ago when I was a teen, but never got licensed, so I'm planning to do that after getting vaccinated.
Looking at the Vans RV’s, or maybe a older tail dragger like a Cessna 170.
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To the above comment.
A 1000cc crotch rocket has that feeling in indescribable amounts. Most people never experience it but once you do everything seems so slow. Unfortunately they also will kill you rather quickly. So I don't ride any more. I still love that sound of an engine screaming up to 10k plus rpm.
As far as luxury value goes - I've found Infiniti to be a really good brand used. They sell lower than acura and lexus and are still decent. You also never hear of any transmission problems or any issues with their V6 engines.
Miata is awesome in the curves, but I didn't enjoy driving it.
I far preferred driving the RX7 and RX8 to the Miata, but fuck, with that absolute garbage fuel efficiency, why bother?
Because what other engine can scream to 10k+ RPM comfortably!? I cant believe I forgot to mention it.
Um, because gas is very expensive in Canada, and that stupid car drank gas like an airplane.
It's a very neat car, but not the best option to own.
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So are there any former car enthusiasts on the board? How did you quit?
I traded one addiction in for another (sorry, late to the party- but I'll add my $0.02)
I lived and breathed rally for many, many years and had the credit card balances to prove it. I consider myself among the elite of car guys as once in a great while, I get to sign the *back* of a check for doing something car related.
But in my early thirties when it was clear cars weren't doing shit for my health I decided to give bicycling a try. At the time cyclocross was taking off and gravel road racing was just getting started. Both checked all the same boxes as rally for me. Adventure, endurance, adversity, camaraderie, and a technical machine to geek out on.
From there on in, bicycles started infiltrating other parts of my life- touring, commuting, mountain biking.
Eventually got rid of my WRX (OK, more or less wore it out) and got myself a wait for it....
...base model tacoma. :D
Did make sure to get a manual transmission in it though.
At this point, bicycles have pretty much taken over. And honestly, I find them way way more fun than cars. The people involved are a lot more fun too. People tend to get themselves a little too wrapped up in their cars, both financially and emotionally and sometimes that makes them not a lot of fun to be around.
Hope that helps some.
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Oh, heavens yes! I am currently in a "heart versus mind" debate right now. Fortunately, the mind is still winning.
What helped was quitting the blogs and shows, including Top Gear. That said, I'm trying to push away thoughts of a Tesla. Check in next year.
Good luck.
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I'm actually shopping around for a mini van.
My how my priorities have changed lol. I don't even have kids! But a van checks so many utility boxes lol.
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I'm actually shopping around for a mini van.
My how my priorities have changed lol. I don't even have kids! But a van checks so many utility boxes lol.
Vans rock. Really useful and versatile. Fortunately, they are "un-cool" which translates to "very affordable" on the used car market.
Btw, some of the Toyota Siennas have recliner type middle row seats, with a fold out foot rest like a La-z-boy! Who needs a bed?!
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I'm actually shopping around for a mini van.
My how my priorities have changed lol. I don't even have kids! But a van checks so many utility boxes lol.
Fortunately, they are "un-cool"
Unless he gets the Delica bite. Mine is a 1995 model, same as this one that my road-trippers buddies Alex and Michaela took on their trip around the world. Turbo Diesel, 4x4, 8-seater soccer mom van with low-range gears and the same central differential lock used in all Mitsubishi four-wheel drives. The pleasure I get when I drive it, whether off-road or on my trans-continental adventures is priceless...on the downside, the cost of maintenance and repairs on a 25-year old vehicle is far from being priceless...
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I'm actually shopping around for a mini van.
My how my priorities have changed lol. I don't even have kids! But a van checks so many utility boxes lol.
Vans rock. Really useful and versatile. Fortunately, they are "un-cool" which translates to "very affordable" on the used car market.
Btw, some of the Toyota Siennas have recliner type middle row seats, with a fold out foot rest like a La-z-boy! Who needs a bed?!
. Have you seen this ambulance conversion. Pretty cool! https://youtu.be/ouWScgeA8u4
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So are there any former car enthusiasts on the board? How did you quit?
I traded one addiction in for another (sorry, late to the party- but I'll add my $0.02)
I lived and breathed rally for many, many years and had the credit card balances to prove it. I consider myself among the elite of car guys as once in a great while, I get to sign the *back* of a check for doing something car related.
But in my early thirties when it was clear cars weren't doing shit for my health I decided to give bicycling a try. At the time cyclocross was taking off and gravel road racing was just getting started. Both checked all the same boxes as rally for me. Adventure, endurance, adversity, camaraderie, and a technical machine to geek out on.
From there on in, bicycles started infiltrating other parts of my life- touring, commuting, mountain biking.
Eventually got rid of my WRX (OK, more or less wore it out) and got myself a wait for it....
...base model tacoma. :D
Did make sure to get a manual transmission in it though.
At this point, bicycles have pretty much taken over. And honestly, I find them way way more fun than cars. The people involved are a lot more fun too. People tend to get themselves a little too wrapped up in their cars, both financially and emotionally and sometimes that makes them not a lot of fun to be around.
Hope that helps some.
FWIW, I have raced bikes for almost as long as I've been into cars. Started on the road, got into mountain bikes in college because collegiate mtb race weekends were hilariously fun, then cyclocross in ~2010ish. I think that cycling kept my car addiction at bay for a bit but I hurt my knee in 2015 and my bike mileage dropped WAY off and my car addiction swelled again. I'm mostly recovered knee-wise, but when you take a break that long its hard to recapture that rhythm and claw back the time required to be halfway decent at riding again.
Financially, its possible to spend an incredible amount of money on cycling, and the price floor, which used to be pocket-change cheap, has started to rise. Its probably cheaper than privateer rallying (which is probably the motorsport I would launch headlong into if I suddenly became a billionaire or 9 figure-aire) but bicycles have gotten stomach-turningly expensive lately. People are FINANCING bicycles now. FINANCING. Like a car. Nuts.
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To the OP: yes, I've tried and failed. Although I've made a little progress.
I had a 335i manual up until late last year (with your aforementioned wonderful BMW 3.0 inline 6, but turbocharged). I loved that car, so incredibly smooth and powerful for a smaller sedan. But it was just sitting in the garage because of covid; any time I went out I took my daily driver.
So, I ended up consolidating my fleet and buying a used Ford Edge Sport. It's not as fast or nimble as the BMW, but it is ridiculously fast for a midsized crossover, while still being very nice on the inside. I can, and do, still drift in the snow with it. I've surprised many at stoplights as it is just a beast. At the same time, it's very spacious and far more practical for everyday use.
It doesn't quite scratch the itch that the BMW did, but it's close. The practicality makes up for it.
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Other than minivans and high revving engines ...
My third and least mustachian car addiction is performance oriented SUVs. Nothing mustachian about it. High fuel cost, high purchase cost, high repair cost.... It's almost an oxymoron to look for SUVs that do 0.9g or higher on the skidpad.
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It's almost an oxymoron to look for SUVs that do 0.9g or higher on the skidpad.
Setting aside the ridiculously expensive Lamborghini Urus (1.02g!) I imagine there are hardly any. I guess there is the Porsche Macan and Audi SQ5. Any others? Though skidpad numbers often come down to how sticky of tires are mounted. I feel slalom numbers tend to better demonstrate the vehicle's handling ability.
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Anyone have a recommendation for an enthusiast vehicle that can fit 4 people for around $25k? As in, if you, as a mustachian, wanted to feed the vehicle fix need in your soul and transport 4 people, what would you buy? I found you can buy a 6 year old maserati sedan for ~$25k, or a porsche Cayenne for similar or less. Any type of car, just curious what folks would want
if i had no budget i would love to do a restoration of a ~1996 4 door F-350 to make it a 2021 technology truck.
i drive a 2010 mazda 3 hatchback that has some zoom zoom so it makes driving fun at least
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Anyone have a recommendation for an enthusiast vehicle that can fit 4 people for around $25k? As in, if you, as a mustachian, wanted to feed the vehicle fix need in your soul and transport 4 people, what would you buy? I found you can buy a 6 year old maserati sedan for ~$25k, or a porsche Cayenne for similar or less. Any type of car, just curious what folks would want
I ended up buying a 2016 VW Golf R for this purpose. Comfortably seats 4 adults plus 22.8 cu ft of luggage. Practical hatchback form factor. 30 mpg highway. 300 horsepower, AWD, and manual transmission (dual clutch auto also available) makes it a ton of fun. The Golf R is also upscale compared to normal VWs and the interior is more like an Audi (heated leather seats, for example). I paid ~$18k for mine but it had really high miles and isn't in the best cosmetic shape. I'd expect to be able to get a really nice one for sub-$25k.
Stay away from the Maseratis, absolute money pits. The Cayenne is fine but it's not going to be particularly sporty (Macan is better, but not as much space as the Golf despite being much taller).
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It's almost an oxymoron to look for SUVs that do 0.9g or higher on the skidpad.
Setting aside the ridiculously expensive Lamborghini Urus (1.02g!) I imagine there are hardly any. I guess there is the Porsche Macan and Audi SQ5. Any others? Though skidpad numbers often come down to how sticky of tires are mounted. I feel slalom numbers tend to better demonstrate the vehicle's handling ability.
I thought maybe the Durango SRT or Jeep Trackhawk would be there, but not quite. Seems they can only manage 0.88/0.89.
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I'm not a car person. I don't get it. But, you do you. Why would you quit something that brings you joy? All you need to do is quit spending money on it, or greatly reduce the money spent. Doesn't mean you can't still enjoy yourself.
Examples:
Car shows (free or inexpensive) - there's a small car show every year in my small town. Is it the high end cars? Nope. But if you like 60s/70s cars, you'll enjoy yourself. Free I believe, or might be part of the entrance fee for the broader event. Also, there's a diner in my area that for whatever reason attracts the car people, so they'll hang out in the parking lot. Cost is a meal to be polite. I'm sure there's other stuff, but I don't care about cars so I have no clue.
Magazines (free at the library)
Car talks/discussion - I'm sure there's tons of podcasts, youtube channels, etc. Free or inexpensive
Books about cars (free at the library)
If you make friends who do have the cars, then you can maybe drive the car sometimes, help work on it, etc. Kinda like friends with boats.
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Anyone have a recommendation for an enthusiast vehicle that can fit 4 people for around $25k? As in, if you, as a mustachian, wanted to feed the vehicle fix need in your soul and transport 4 people, what would you buy? I found you can buy a 6 year old maserati sedan for ~$25k, or a porsche Cayenne for similar or less. Any type of car, just curious what folks would want
if i had no budget i would love to do a restoration of a ~1996 4 door F-350 to make it a 2021 technology truck.
i drive a 2010 mazda 3 hatchback that has some zoom zoom so it makes driving fun at least
I think a brand new base Subaru WRX lists for not much more than $25k. You'll be hard pressed to find a sports sedan that gives you more performance per dollar and you'll still have the kind of reliability generally associated with Japanese cars.
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Anyone have a recommendation for an enthusiast vehicle that can fit 4 people for around $25k? As in, if you, as a mustachian, wanted to feed the vehicle fix need in your soul and transport 4 people, what would you buy? I found you can buy a 6 year old maserati sedan for ~$25k, or a porsche Cayenne for similar or less. Any type of car, just curious what folks would want
if i had no budget i would love to do a restoration of a ~1996 4 door F-350 to make it a 2021 technology truck.
i drive a 2010 mazda 3 hatchback that has some zoom zoom so it makes driving fun at least
I think a brand new base Subaru WRX lists for not much more than $25k. You'll be hard pressed to find a sports sedan that gives you more performance per dollar and you'll still have the kind of reliability generally associated with Japanese cars.
I like Subarus (have owned three) but their reliability is actually below average:
http://www.dashboard-light.com/reports/Subaru.html
Some other thoughts are the Lexus GS, Porsche Panamera, Audi A6, Chevy SS.
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I was going to recommend the Ford Focus RS as a WRX alternative for someone wanting to go full boy racer but I couldn't find one for sale under $25k. I guess they must have gotten the head gasket issue sorted out.
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As a mechanic who will never be able to quit being a car enthusiast, It's very interesting to see what sort of car is considered 'reliable' in the U.S. as compared to Australia....
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Some other thoughts are the Lexus GS, Porsche Panamera, Audi A6, Chevy SS.
What's a Kia Stinger worth over there? The six pot ones seem like they'd be a decent option.
Otherwise there's the hot hatch choices.
As a mechanic who will never be able to quit being a car enthusiast, It's very interesting to see what sort of car is considered 'reliable' in the U.S. as compared to Australia....
I wonder what metrics are used? Here in Australia it seems that recalls are only for safety issues, but I get the impression that they recall a car for anything and everything in the US.
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Some other thoughts are the Lexus GS, Porsche Panamera, Audi A6, Chevy SS.
What's a Kia Stinger worth over there? The six pot ones seem like they'd be a decent option.
The 2018-2019 4-cylinder base Stinger (252 hp) can be had for under $25k. The 6-cylinder ones (365 hp) are going to be a little more (~$30k looks reasonable).
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I probably won’t buy anymore fun cars, but I may get a fun plane.
What types of planes appeal to you? I've been looking are amphibian planes and think a Lake Buccaneer would be a lot of fun. They seem to be relatively affordable considering that they're amphibious. I soloed years ago when I was a teen, but never got licensed, so I'm planning to do that after getting vaccinated.
Looking at the Vans RV’s, or maybe a older tail dragger like a Cessna 170.
I believe the most mustachian plane out there is the Sonex. RVs are pretty expensive in comparison. Our Sonex with the VW engine is ridiculously cheap to run.
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Some other thoughts are the Lexus GS, Porsche Panamera, Audi A6, Chevy SS.
What's a Kia Stinger worth over there? The six pot ones seem like they'd be a decent option.
Otherwise there's the hot hatch choices.
As a mechanic who will never be able to quit being a car enthusiast, It's very interesting to see what sort of car is considered 'reliable' in the U.S. as compared to Australia....
I wonder what metrics are used? Here in Australia it seems that recalls are only for safety issues, but I get the impression that they recall a car for anything and everything in the US.
Consumer Laws protect car owners better in the US I think. That website's reliability ratings are pretty interesting though.
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Anyone have a recommendation for an enthusiast vehicle that can fit 4 people for around $25k? As in, if you, as a mustachian, wanted to feed the vehicle fix need in your soul and transport 4 people, what would you buy? I found you can buy a 6 year old maserati sedan for ~$25k, or a porsche Cayenne for similar or less. Any type of car, just curious what folks would want
if i had no budget i would love to do a restoration of a ~1996 4 door F-350 to make it a 2021 technology truck.
i drive a 2010 mazda 3 hatchback that has some zoom zoom so it makes driving fun at least
I think a brand new base Subaru WRX lists for not much more than $25k. You'll be hard pressed to find a sports sedan that gives you more performance per dollar and you'll still have the kind of reliability generally associated with Japanese cars.
I like Subarus (have owned three) but their reliability is actually below average:
http://www.dashboard-light.com/reports/Subaru.html
Some other thoughts are the Lexus GS, Porsche Panamera, Audi A6, Chevy SS.
Thanks RWD,
That's really interesting. Our three Subarus were bulletproof.
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Anyone have a recommendation for an enthusiast vehicle that can fit 4 people for around $25k? As in, if you, as a mustachian, wanted to feed the vehicle fix need in your soul and transport 4 people, what would you buy? I found you can buy a 6 year old maserati sedan for ~$25k, or a porsche Cayenne for similar or less. Any type of car, just curious what folks would want
if i had no budget i would love to do a restoration of a ~1996 4 door F-350 to make it a 2021 technology truck.
i drive a 2010 mazda 3 hatchback that has some zoom zoom so it makes driving fun at least
I think a brand new base Subaru WRX lists for not much more than $25k. You'll be hard pressed to find a sports sedan that gives you more performance per dollar and you'll still have the kind of reliability generally associated with Japanese cars.
I like Subarus (have owned three) but their reliability is actually below average:
http://www.dashboard-light.com/reports/Subaru.html
Some other thoughts are the Lexus GS, Porsche Panamera, Audi A6, Chevy SS.
Thanks RWD,
That's really interesting. Our three Subarus were bulletproof.
My first Subaru developed rod knock (possibly my fault). Our second Subaru we purchased with a seized motor (around ~140k miles, if I recall correctly). After replacing the engine it was mostly trouble free. Our third Subaru was purchased brand new and was reliable for our 7 years of ownership (very low miles though).
A lot of reliability issues with Subarus have traditionally been with the head gaskets. Presumably they have solved that issue and looking at Dashboard-Light it seems around 2014-2015 and newer are pretty reliable.
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See signature. I have loved cars since I knew what they were, have collected hot wheels and car magazines and car paraphernalia my whole life, and buying my S2000 was the culmination of a life’s dream. I love my kids more than the car, but it’s real close.
Good news is, for me the car hobby is pretty cheap. My car is worth pretty much what I spent on it if I had to sell, which I won’t. I DIY pretty much everything, and parts and consumables are inexpensive. Insurance is cheap. Tires and gas are the only real expenses. It’s basically just a cooler, faster, more interesting Miata (someone once called it a weaponized Miata, I like that).
I don’t drive all that fast. There aren’t many sports car roads around Chicagoland to go storming through the twisties. But if you get that warm summer night, the right passenger beside you, the right song on the radio, and you nail that corner and execute that perfect 3-2 downshift timed just right and bounce off the redline and listen to the engine scream..,oh man, that’s it right there, that’s everything.
I’m sure other people find that feeling elsewhere, but that’s my nirvana.
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Some other thoughts are the Lexus GS, Porsche Panamera, Audi A6, Chevy SS.
What's a Kia Stinger worth over there? The six pot ones seem like they'd be a decent option.
The 2018-2019 4-cylinder base Stinger (252 hp) can be had for under $25k. The 6-cylinder ones (365 hp) are going to be a little more (~$30k looks reasonable).
Does anyone have personal experience with the Stinger? My wife and I are looking to replace our Escape with a sedan. Unfortunately, the sedan landscape is getting sparse. Not a fan of the CVT in the Accord, not keen on a Camry. I believe Ford is discontinuing the Fusion. The only other contender was the Mazda6, but we recently had a Mazda3 and while we liked it, we're looking to change it up a bit.
The Stinger seems to be a stand-out on paper for being fun and great value on a used one.
Anyway, to the original question: I managed an auto parts store for several years, and I auto-crossed the Mazda(speed)3. The biggest thing that has lessened my spending/enthusiasm for cars has just been distancing myself from the "scene." and finding other things to occupy my time. I still keep somewhat abreast, but not being constantly surrounded by people working on and talking about cars helps. Even reading threads like this makes me a bit wistful, but in general just limiting exposure helps.
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Some other thoughts are the Lexus GS, Porsche Panamera, Audi A6, Chevy SS.
What's a Kia Stinger worth over there? The six pot ones seem like they'd be a decent option.
The 2018-2019 4-cylinder base Stinger (252 hp) can be had for under $25k. The 6-cylinder ones (365 hp) are going to be a little more (~$30k looks reasonable).
Does anyone have personal experience with the Stinger? My wife and I are looking to replace our Escape with a sedan. Unfortunately, the sedan landscape is getting sparse. Not a fan of the CVT in the Accord, not keen on a Camry. I believe Ford is discontinuing the Fusion. The only other contender was the Mazda6, but we recently had a Mazda3 and while we liked it, we're looking to change it up a bit.
The Stinger seems to be a stand-out on paper for being fun and great value on a used one.
Anyway, to the original question: I managed an auto parts store for several years, and I auto-crossed the Mazda(speed)3. The biggest thing that has lessened my spending/enthusiasm for cars has just been distancing myself from the "scene." and finding other things to occupy my time. I still keep somewhat abreast, but not being constantly surrounded by people working on and talking about cars helps. Even reading threads like this makes me a bit wistful, but in general just limiting exposure helps.
Doug DeMuro (a very popular automotive Youtuber) liked the Stinger enough that he bought one to use as his daily driver for a while (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKKCmgic8Fg).
They have the same 5-year basic/10-year powertrain warranty as Hyundais so I think you can expect it to be pretty reliable. The 4-cylinder engine is shared with the Genesis G70, Genesis Coupe, i30N, Santa Fe, Sonata Veloster N, Optima, Sorento, and Sportage so it is well tested (earliest use in 2009 vehicles).
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If you can buy a Stinger at a significant discount (used or new) it might be worthwhile, my main concern would be H/K cars tend to have pretty severe depreciation and the car will cost a bit in terms of TCO as a result.
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Anyone have a recommendation for an enthusiast vehicle that can fit 4 people for around $25k? As in, if you, as a mustachian, wanted to feed the vehicle fix need in your soul and transport 4 people, what would you buy? I found you can buy a 6 year old maserati sedan for ~$25k, or a porsche Cayenne for similar or less. Any type of car, just curious what folks would want
if i had no budget i would love to do a restoration of a ~1996 4 door F-350 to make it a 2021 technology truck.
i drive a 2010 mazda 3 hatchback that has some zoom zoom so it makes driving fun at least
Have you considered a newer Mazda 3 hatch? I do not know what model of 2010 you have, but we recently went from the '06 GT to a low-km '14 GT and I cannot believe how much the fun factor has increased! Not going to pin-you-in-your-seat with 300hp, but certainly enough that even my car-loving DH has fun driving it. I LOVE when there is no traffic on the ski hill road! Zoom-zoom indeed.
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I'm not a car person. I don't get it. But, you do you. Why would you quit something that brings you joy? All you need to do is quit spending money on it, or greatly reduce the money spent. Doesn't mean you can't still enjoy yourself.
Examples:
Car shows (free or inexpensive) - there's a small car show every year in my small town. Is it the high end cars? Nope. But if you like 60s/70s cars, you'll enjoy yourself.
A car show to a car person can be like an addict going to a crack house, just to browse.
I have pretty much stopped going to car shows because every time I do I get the itch to buy, and I'm trying to stay focused on hitting a specific net worth amount before I pull the trigger.
...but maybe it's just me.If you can buy a Stinger at a significant discount (used or new) it might be worthwhile, my main concern would be H/K cars tend to have pretty severe depreciation and the car will cost a bit in terms of TCO as a result.
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Not a car enthusiast but motorcycles. Got my first little dirt bike at age 12, had many dirt and road bikes ever since then - often as my only vehicle - and got my rid of my last road bike a couple of years ago (Ducati Monster - that hot naked Italian just didn't fit in with my lifestyle then and he had to go ;-)). Even worked in a motorcycle shop throughout my teenage years to support my "habit" - and meet boys! Got an old beater van at 16 so I could haul my bikes to races and to the desert. Even after I FIREd my first trips were long solo motorcycle camping trips on a small Yamaha cruiser I had for years as my "daily driver" (had the sports bike too - a Suzuki GSX/R but not for road trips).
Anyways it's been a couple of years and I am jonesing hard for another bike - probably an adventure dual sports bike. I've morphed my love of motorcycles towards bicycling over the years but doesn't quite scratch the itch. Hoping this thread will talk me down from the ledge. I should probably stop reading blog of the forum members here who are living the adventure motorcycle life like @EndlessJourney .
ETA: I haven't owned a car/vehicle for over a year now and just rent occasionally so am deciding what I should get. That is making my motorcycle road trip lust grow even though I'm trying to be practical and get a small van for road trips.
@spartana,
If I was single & that was your online dating profile I'd be nervously (assuming I'd be just one of the hundreds) replying. ;)
I grew up on bikes too. My dad used to rev the engine on his little Honda to call me home when I was about 5 years old. I don't remember how old I was when we got the first minibike, but I think I was 8 or 9 when dad bought a junk AMF Harley Davidson 125 as my first real motorcycle. It was a "team builder" for my little brothers and me, meaning they'd help push it up the hill so I could roll-start it & give them rides.
Gene & Neda are my heros too. I follow them on ADVrider (Gene is "Lightcycle" there) and here's their website for folks wondering who they are: [size=78%]http://www.ridedot.com/faq/ (http://www.ridedot.com/faq/)[/size]
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Tesla Roadster pushed back to 2022 unfortunately but it's the only EV (along with the Taycan) I'm remotely interested in.
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Tesla Roadster pushed back to 2022 unfortunately but it's the only EV (along with the Taycan) I'm remotely interested in.
Base model Taycan was recently announced (I think deliveries to start in Spring). Starts at $80k (USD), ~400-470 hp, RWD. I think the 4S is the sweet spot but it's nice to have an even lower priced trim (will probably be a bargain on the used market in a few years).
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I quit by being into motorcycles instead and now I could care less about cars. Still not cheap but way cheaper than cars
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2 thoughts on this:
1. Buying cars that are older and bottom of the depreciation curve is a good way to enjoy vehicles without going broke. Something like an E46 M3 could be kept as a 3rd car, driven 2-10k a year, and it'll never lose value. Same goes for a 996 Turbo, any Japanese halo car from the 90s, etc.
2. I've actually kind of kicked the track day "bug" by getting heavy into online sim racing. A good setup for sim racing is sort of expensive (1k on the basic end) but it removes a lot of the headaches of car prep while allowing you to fight with friends on track. I still have a w2w car that I'm prepping for endurance racing with a few friends but to be honest, I'd rather do sim racing than track days.
To be honest, cars are only money pits if you're buying them very new and eating depreciation or modding them heavily. If you can stay away from those two issues, cars really aren't that expensive.
I was going to recommend the Ford Focus RS as a WRX alternative for someone wanting to go full boy racer but I couldn't find one for sale under $25k. I guess they must have gotten the head gasket issue sorted out.
Along a similar line of thinking: the Civic Type R is very quick for what it is. May be a challenge to get one at 25k but they have held their value very well so I wouldn't be opposed to stretching the budget a bit to get into one. You have to be okay with roughly 30 fake vents and wings though... which is a deal breaker for a lot of people. :)
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Anyone have a recommendation for an enthusiast vehicle that can fit 4 people for around $25k? As in, if you, as a mustachian, wanted to feed the vehicle fix need in your soul and transport 4 people, what would you buy? I found you can buy a 6 year old maserati sedan for ~$25k, or a porsche Cayenne for similar or less. Any type of car, just curious what folks would want
if i had no budget i would love to do a restoration of a ~1996 4 door F-350 to make it a 2021 technology truck.
i drive a 2010 mazda 3 hatchback that has some zoom zoom so it makes driving fun at least
Have you considered a newer Mazda 3 hatch? I do not know what model of 2010 you have, but we recently went from the '06 GT to a low-km '14 GT and I cannot believe how much the fun factor has increased! Not going to pin-you-in-your-seat with 300hp, but certainly enough that even my car-loving DH has fun driving it. I LOVE when there is no traffic on the ski hill road! Zoom-zoom indeed.
i hadn't but looked over the weekend, Mazda has a 3 variant with awd and turbo pushing 250 horse, i test drove the speed 3 when i got mine but the GF now wife cant drive stick so i had to pass, may investigate this more along with other suggestions
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Look at c90adventures on youtube for someone doing motorcycles round the world on an ultra tight budget. A good 20 hours of youtube black hole
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2 thoughts on this:
1. Buying cars that are older and bottom of the depreciation curve is a good way to enjoy vehicles without going broke. Something like an E46 M3 could be kept as a 3rd car, driven 2-10k a year, and it'll never lose value. Same goes for a 996 Turbo, any Japanese halo car from the 90s, etc.
To be honest, cars are only money pits if you're buying them very new and eating depreciation or modding them heavily. If you can stay away from those two issues, cars really aren't that expensive.
Good advice. Late model cars are generally vulgar, common, uncool and depreciate too fast. Getting something older and wrenching on it yourself is much more fun, cool, and wayyyy less wasteful. The farther back you go the cooler the cars get, easier to work on, and in some cases cheaper to buy. 60s-90s Japanese sports cars are amazing. I nearly picked up a modded Datsun Fairlady roadster last year. I’m still looking for a cool bargain two-seater.
Along a similar line of thinking: the Civic Type R is very quick for what it is. May be a challenge to get one at 25k but they have held their value very well so I wouldn't be opposed to stretching the budget a bit to get into one. You have to be okay with roughly 30 fake vents and wings though... which is a deal breaker for a lot of people. :)
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Another option is building a sleeper. cheap car, big engine. Old car newer engine. Outside plain and cheap.
My version has always been go slow - build out the hobby vehicle over time. Mostly b/c in the past I was either short of time or money. That requires alot of procrastination. ;)
If you want to quit, just go cold turkey. Reasons: Maintenance of hobbies will never end, only slow down. Enough "toys" and that can create quite a cost or a maintenance cycle. As a person gets older maybe that goes from fun to a weight on their mind.
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I wish sales tax wasn't so high. I've owned more cars then I can remember. I can't seem to find a "forever" car.
In a perfect world I'd buy mostly depreciated cars, drive them for a few months till I get bored and fix whatever maintenance items are due in that time my self then sell them and get something else that excited me.
But without a dealer license the purchase transaction just takes too high a % of the vehicle price since sales tax alone is a %.
I actually looked at leasing basically a shack that meets the minimums to have a dealer license in my state.... For reasons I haven't.... But it would be cheaper than eating the transaction cost every time. If you had some buddies and you guys all went in on it, that would be the way to do it. Each of your inventory vehicles is basically a slow flip.
I'd like to acquire a Q50 sport Hybrid and daily that for a while. Really good specs for an affordable hybrid.
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I wish sales tax wasn't so high. I've owned more cars then I can remember. I can't seem to find a "forever" car.
In a perfect world I'd buy mostly depreciated cars, drive them for a few months till I get bored and fix whatever maintenance items are due in that time my self then sell them and get something else that excited me.
But without a dealer license the purchase transaction just takes too high a % of the vehicle price since sales tax alone is a %.
I actually looked at leasing basically a shack that meets the minimums to have a dealer license in my state.... For reasons I haven't.... But it would be cheaper than eating the transaction cost every time. If you had some buddies and you guys all went in on it, that would be the way to do it. Each of your inventory vehicles is basically a slow flip.
I'd like to acquire a Q50 sport Hybrid and daily that for a while. Really good specs for an affordable hybrid.
+1
I've thought that for a long time. If you shop around you can find good deals. It's totally possible to buy a $25,000 vehicle, drive it for 6 months and sell it for $25,000+. The problem is the $1,750 sales tax I would pay to do this. This makes the transaction costs way too high in most cases. If they had a "1031 exchange" program like real estate rentals where you only pay sales tax on the difference between purchase and sale price of prior vehicle (or income tax on profit) it would be much more manageable. Alas, the gov is not interested in making less money.
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I'd like to acquire a Q50 sport Hybrid and daily that for a while. Really good specs for an affordable hybrid.
Stay far away from these, they use the weird direct adaptive steering that has a clutch on the steering column that allows the wheels to be disconnected from the steering wheel so it apparently feels super weird to drive. They pan it in such a hilarious way in this car and driver review: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15106981/2014-infiniti-q50s-hybrid-awd-long-term-test-review/
I think a cool value in high performance hybrids right now is the Acura RLX sport hybrid, which uses a well received dual clutch transmission, the proven Honda J35 V6, and an electric motor between them. They then put an additional two electric motors on the rear axle for torque vectoring. Of course since it was an expensive sedan (not an SUV), it sold poorly so they depreciated like crazy.
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Great question, I quit being a "car" guy by quitting being a house/two car garage guy. I realize now that wrenching in the garage was a form of meditation for me so I just look for other ways to get that mental isolation. My wife and I moved to a small apartment in PHX and kept just her SUV. There I became a mountain bike guy with a cheap mongoose fat tire bike so I got my wrenching kicks on that. Mountain trail days replaced my track days and I could go as often as I wanted for free. Then we moved to a very flat Florida where the closest mountain biking spot is an hour away so I took up skateboarding for the first time at a ripe 37. Theres a skatepark two blocks from my condo and again, you get to gear out and tune for even cheaper than MTBing. I go at 7am when the park is empty and get plenty of old guy thrills learning to skate bowls. costs go down, exercise/health goes up(not including some character building bruises and scrapes). I do also have a small Vespa 150 to get around town faster that scratches the itch when I'm desperate to do vehicle maintenance.
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Keep downsizing. Next in line is R/C cars and ships in a bottle. ;)
I know what you mean about wrenching as meditation. Its a good thing.
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Yup. Quit it back in my 20s. As a hobby it was too expensive. And as a side business I realized that I was losing money when looking at the big picture. I lost some friends when moving away from it.
Plus, where I live, cars older than 10 years or so are rusting away. It's less fun than the LA scene.
I still do the wrenching on my bicycles, with some of the same wrenches I owned at age 19.
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Yep, I have some tools that I bought at around age 14 or 15 when I started working on cars. Yes to everything else you said.
I really like the learning aspect. Sort of like engineering - finding solutions, learning to apply them correctly, improving upon the original sometimes.
I oscillate between electronics (I'm very much a novice) during the cold/dark months and cars/carpentry/scooters/bicycles during the warm months with long evenings.
Last night I built a 90V/9V AB battery for a 1951 Zenith radio that is an amazing long distance radio.
Not quite as exciting as a long sweeping curve at high speed steering with the throttle but its something to do that I find interesting and affordable.
This spring I'll put a paint job on one of my antique cars. I have to stay busy. With enough DIY I can get my money out of my hobbies when I sell.
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Audi e-Tron unveiled today - looks great. With that, the Taycan, and Tesla's upcoming Roadster v2.0, car enthusiasts have a lot to look forward to, even in the electric car age.
Now just have to get battery tech to improve so that we can get lighter cars. Imagine a 1.0 - 1.2 tonne car with the power of one of those EVs. Would be ballistic!
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Audi e-Tron unveiled today - looks great. With that, the Taycan, and Tesla's upcoming Roadster v2.0, car enthusiasts have a lot to look forward to, even in the electric car age.
Now just have to get battery tech to improve so that we can get lighter cars. Imagine a 1.0 - 1.2 tonne car with the power of one of those EVs. Would be ballistic!
The Hennessey Venom GT comes to mind. 1,250 kg. 1200+ hp.
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Audi e-Tron unveiled today - looks great. With that, the Taycan, and Tesla's upcoming Roadster v2.0, car enthusiasts have a lot to look forward to, even in the electric car age.
Now just have to get battery tech to improve so that we can get lighter cars. Imagine a 1.0 - 1.2 tonne car with the power of one of those EVs. Would be ballistic!
Those cars will bring new enthusiasts and some old enthusiasts will also be into them but they have nothing in common with petrol burning cars(except for shape and 4 wheels). Most of enthusiasts that I know will never be into electric cars, they are great daily drivers but they have no emotion. Changing gears, hearing a rumbling V8 or a screaming flat 6, vibrations, smell, etc.
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I'm a car guy through and through. In the past, i've jumped between cheap cars (E46, mini, '81 honda civic wagon that-i-wish-i-didn't-have-to-sell) to the shiny cars (brand new Focus ST, Hyundai Genesis Coupe) while i've grappled between financial efficiency and that sweet, sweet smell of oil and grease on your hands after you wash them for the 30th time and your back hurts because you laid down on your torque wrench accidentally.
My 'solve' to merge my petrol and mustachian tendencies has been to try to make the most cost efficient performing car I can, and I finally got it right this time around. I bought a used Miata for < 5k, did my research, compiled a list of the best bang-for-your-buck improvements that would result in the car that i wanted at the end of the road, and then scoured CL and FB marketplace for those parts. Bought a couple pieces new (Flyin Miata wheels and tires), but the majority was all either sourced on CL (sway bars) or the DIY route (air intake, lots of elbow grease to fix/clean rust rather than replace parts, etc).
Currently sitting at $7,156 all in cost (including registration, taxes on purchase, etc). Only major purchase left may be an exhaust if I can't patch the stock one.
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I'm a car guy through and through. In the past, i've jumped between cheap cars (E46, mini, '81 honda civic wagon that-i-wish-i-didn't-have-to-sell) to the shiny cars (brand new Focus ST, Hyundai Genesis Coupe) while i've grappled between financial efficiency and that sweet, sweet smell of oil and grease on your hands after you wash them for the 30th time and your back hurts because you laid down on your torque wrench accidentally.
My 'solve' to merge my petrol and mustachian tendencies has been to try to make the most cost efficient performing car I can, and I finally got it right this time around. I bought a used Miata for < 5k, did my research, compiled a list of the best bang-for-your-buck improvements that would result in the car that i wanted at the end of the road, and then scoured CL and FB marketplace for those parts. Bought a couple pieces new (Flyin Miata wheels and tires), but the majority was all either sourced on CL (sway bars) or the DIY route (air intake, lots of elbow grease to fix/clean rust rather than replace parts, etc).
Currently sitting at $7,156 all in cost (including registration, taxes on purchase, etc). Only major purchase left may be an exhaust if I can't patch the stock one.
I came to the same conclusion but in my case, did buy a new Miata after waiting for it for 25+ years after I realized I wanted one.
Exhaust, definitely go aftermarket (not sure saving a stock one is worth it). Adds so much driving enjoyment.
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This is an ongoing struggle for me. I grew up with cars and, like many here, they provided access to opportunities and communities that helped to shape my identity. Being an enthusiast in many of the ways I used to find exhilarating as a youth (more power, smokey burnouts, etc.) is now at odds with the values I hold, especially after finding this board several years ago. However, my industry requires lots of time on the road, so it's hard to detach from car ownership altogether, even if I were to rearrange my life in ways frequently suggested by MMM.
For me, the answer has been a Fiat 500 Abarth. It's no bigger than I need, has very cheap consumables, and is an absolute riot to drive at all speeds. While I accept a higher level of maintenance for an enthusiast car, the Fiat has been surprisingly reliable with no major unscheduled maintenance up to 90k miles. Alternatively, I would suggest a Miata or other affordable roadster, but I often haul kids around and need the back seat. Many fun four-cylinder options can be had reliably for no more than four figures.
If and when I hit full FI, I may go back and examine other options with V8s, but I suspect the desire may not be there.
Good luck as you find what works for you.
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Car enthusiast who is currently in remission checking in. I will always love a heavily modified track car or 4x4 capable of crawling all over southern Utah, but I’ve been able to refocus my efforts into bikes. While they certainly aren’t cheap, I’ve found that a high end bike gives me the same pleasure with the added fitness component. A few enduro events throughout the year give me reason to train through the winter as well as a hobby to tinker on.
Best of luck, kicking car habit seems compatible to kicking a heroin addiction. I still can’t go to track days or even dealerships without feeling the pull.