Anyone planning on (or currently) homesteading for their retirement?

[cheapass]

My current vision of retirement in ~9 years is to build a house in the mountains (probably Colorado, Washington, Idaho or Tennessee) and live as self-sufficiently as possible. Clean mountain water (electricity too!), a large garden, and livestock such as chickens and goats. Hunting to put meat in the freezer. This lifestyle appeals to me because even if the world goes to shit and my investments tank, I won't have to worry about food or shelter for my family and will have minimal concerns about civil unrest. Being responsible for my food supply will also save us money and will be an enjoyable pasttime compared to working in a cubicle.

Anyone else with similar goals or already living the dream?

[ender]

My wife and I talk about this, but would not be as 100% off the grid as you talk about.

[NV Teacher]

It sounds like a dream life to a lot of people but it's an incredible amount of work.  I grew up like this and when I say it's a lot of work, I mean it's a lot of work. 

If possible start now and see what you can do.  Put in a rabbit hutch or chicken coop and slaughter them when grown.  Plan and plant a garden and see how much you can cut from your grocery bill.  Buy fruits and vegetables in bulk and learn how to bottle, dry, or freeze them.

It's a great life for the right type of person.  Unfortunately I've seen lots of people give it a try and only last a year or two. 

[Slow&Steady]

I love the thought of this kind of life but I do not plan to work that hard in retirement.

I agree with PP it is an incredible amount of work!

[RyanAtTanagra]

I've been flip-flopping on the livestock part the past couple years.  Garden big enough to have produce to last me through winter via big freezer and canning?  Hell yea.  Chickens and other creatures that require daily maintenance, making weekend trips difficult, and longer vacations near impossible if you don't know someone willing to care for them?  I'm not so sure about that anymore.  Being as self-sufficient as possible is a romantic idea, but consider all aspects of your lifestyle that you want.  Some parts may conflict.  You can always increase production of one thing you're already growing and trade with neighbors for things you're not.

[Miss Unleaded]

I'd also love to try something like this, but I know of people who have spent years trying to become self sufficient and even after a decade or so, come nowhere near it. I think it's a grand idea though. 

I plan to develop skills or produce that can be traded with others in our community.  For example, we keep chickens. We've recently set up a scheme where we trade eggs with a local farmer in exchange for grain.  We also trade honey from our bees for manure from the nearby vet that we use to fertilise the garden. We also sell the honey through the local nursery for a bit of extra cash.

Ideally I think it's better to ease in slowly and build bit by bit. It seems like a lot of people give this a try and find that they simply can't take it and quit in a year or two.

[Mr. Green]

I don't want to go the whole way to homesteading but I do want a really big garden so we can have produce that is actually fresh (plus it's cheaper than buying produce at the store that isn't fresh). My dad is on an aeroponics kick, and I think that would be awesome too, being able to have fresh greens in the dead of winter.

[MrsDinero]

Complete 100% off grid no....although Mr. D loves the idea of that.

What we are planning to do is, have a big garden and even do some winter garden boxes.  Ideally enough for us and to trade with others in the area.    We are in the process of buying 1/4 cow from my husband's cousin who does organic, grass-fed beef.  We get our eggs from a family down the street.  We also would like to have bees.


I like the idea of chickens and livestock, but I'm not willing to commit to all the work yet.  I still want to be able to travel with the family and that would not be possible with the daily commitment raising livestock would take.   

[Poeirenta]

Before we moved to our acreage, we had some similar lofty self-sufficiency goals ala Bill Mollison the permaculture guru. Chicken tractors! Graywater orchard! etc. We did achieve 100% off the electrical grid at least! :-)

Now we're here, and still working full time, so there's not much time to dive into much aside from the neccesary tasks like Firewise and snow removal. This is already a lot of work. We have friends and neighbors with livestock, and that's a lot more work! Especially since we also have to deal with predators. We also like to travel, so if we had livestock we'd need a caretaker.

Once we retire, we still might go small scale with some chickens and maybe some goats for brush removal. Or we might keep it simple and support our local farmers and ranchers so we don't have to do it ourselves!

[Venturing]

We bought our property a year ago and are sort of on this road, but like others have said it is a lOT of work.

We deliberately approach our block as first and foremost something to be enjoyed. It's no where near as productive as it could be but we are fine with that. We also very consciously choose new projects that have minimal daily requirements. Eg we have beef and sheep for meat but deliberately don't have any milking animals as they are too much of a commitment.

If we were talking pure finances we would have been much better off keeping our cheap townhouse and investing the difference. We bought our place because we love it not because it was the financially optimal move.

[Sjalabais]

I can easily romanticize about a dream like that. But 100% self-sufficiency is just so incredibly much work to shoulder for a modern soul. You'd probably want to blog about and document all this, too...makes for a hard life. :) A softer version would be what Dick Proennecke did in Alaska*, but I'm not sure it's that simple today - you can't just occupy ground anymore. He got flown in supplies regularly.

Also, my wife would never join me, and I couldn't do that to my kids who want friends to play with and who should be able to make such a fundamental choice for their life themselves.

But...we're getting closer. We live on a beautiful Norwegian fjord. Our drinking water comes from a spring uphill, runs through the house, and out into the fjord. No electricity involved. My farming skills improve every single season. The fjord is full of fish and catching and preparing them is now something I can do in my sleep. My hunting is a bit so-so, employing a Russian Baikal 18MM shotgun gives me one shot only at rabbits and birds. I was born into an academic city family free of practical skills, so learning to fix cars, build stuff and maintain all the crap that just gets more and more was really hard. Doing that efficiently...I'm probably half way there.

So as others say: Start improving skills now. Woodworking, gardening, preservation of meat etc. You'd want to know and be able to do all this stuff when and if you finally pull the trigger.


*Get a hold of the complete "Alone in the Wilderness"-films. Well worth your time.

[shelivesthedream]

Imagine you're at the bottom of a mountain. Right at the bottom where you are, it's all dry rock with nothing growing except a few patches of scrubby grass and a path leading way away from you up the mountain. However, you know that as you get further up the path, the ground will start turning into rich soil. Grass will start to grow and little bees will buzz to and fro sucking sweet nectar from the clover flowers. Fruit trees will spring up, and you'll come across rows and rows of vegetables. Somewhere up the mountain, free range chickens will wander around, clucking and pecking. A couple of pigs will be lazing in the sun. You might come across a wood stove and a forest nearby to provide all the wood the stove needs. And somewhere, far away, right at the top of the mountain, is: The Self-Sufficient Homestead.

You know that the path doesn't run straight to the top of the mountain. It forks and loops back on itself and sometimes goes sideways for a bit before going up again, and there are probably a few dead ends. You might never get all the way to the top of the mountain. You might get tired of hiking up that path and decide at some point that you're done and you're just going to stay right where you are and not hike another step ever. You might camp out somewhere on the lower slopes for a while before shouldering your packs again and marching on. But the only way to start is to take the first step and then another step and keep going as long as you want to. And anywhere you pass through or decide to stop up the mountain is going to be a darn sight better than the dry, rocky ground that you're on right now. So you set your face to the top of the mountain and start walking, knowing that even if you never even see the very top, you'll be a darn sight better off than you are now.

That's my plan.

[Fishindude]

It's far from homesteading but we live on a farm and grow lots of good vegetables, cut firewood for supplemental heat, harvest a couple deer for the freezer, catch & eat fish from the ponds, pick mushrooms to eat, some occasional small game such as squirrel, rabbit or quail, pick berries, etc.  No livestock and probably won't go that route, as we like to take off and travel too much.

[acroy]

I hope to be off-grid from utilities, but will only supplement my food supply. Kroger/etc are just too cheap and easy.
BTW, unless you get real good at it, growing your own (especially meat) costs more than purchasing. A lot of you will not agree with this, and admittedly my statement comes only from my own experience and that of people around me (friends/family/coworkers). By the time all the costs are added up (be honest about the costs! soil, planters, fences, seeds, tools, etc!) the veg can break even, the fruit seldom does unless you already have the tree, and the meat is horrifically expensive.
Best of luck to those who try it though!

[MMMarbleheader]

I too romanticize the idea but I think the closest I will get to it is reading the frugalwoods blog.

Too get affordable land near the ocean (love the ocean, not giving up smelling the sea from inside house). I need to go to middle of nowhere Maine. Then when my kids are grown, they will leave to go to Massachusetts where the jobs are and DW and I will be traveling down the Maine turnpike every weekend .

[andy85]

While i also romanticize about the homestead lifestyle, i don't think i'd want a full blown homestead. There is just so much work to constantly be done and still work in travel, hobbies, etc.

But solar power, garden, maybe some chickens, the occasional hunt, fishing...i'd be down for that.

[shelivesthedream]

I hope to be off-grid from utilities, but will only supplement my food supply. Kroger/etc are just too cheap and easy.
BTW, unless you get real good at it, growing your own (especially meat) costs more than purchasing. A lot of you will not agree with this, and admittedly my statement comes only from my own experience and that of people around me (friends/family/coworkers). By the time all the costs are added up (be honest about the costs! soil, planters, fences, seeds, tools, etc!) the veg can break even, the fruit seldom does unless you already have the tree, and the meat is horrifically expensive.
Best of luck to those who try it though!

What?! Whenever I've costed up homestead-type things, planting fruit trees has almost always come out as the best value for money. I can buy an apple tree at my local garden centre (well-known for not having the best prices) for £25. Plant. Wait. I could make that back on apples in about two years once it starts cropping. The only hard bit is planning ahead a few years. The only work is a few hours a year pruning, and then lots and lots of picking!

[Scandium]

(plus it's cheaper than buying produce at the store that isn't fresh).

Just curious; have you done the math on this? Including soil, seeds, fertilizer, supplies, tools,  and the extra land. How much cheaper is it than stuff at the grocery store? Even ignoring cost of your time it seems like it would be at least marginal savings. Perhaps some higher-cost produce is better? But I mean 5 lb of carrots is pretty darn cheap..

[ender]

(plus it's cheaper than buying produce at the store that isn't fresh).

Just curious; have you done the math on this? Including soil, seeds, fertilizer, supplies, tools,  and the extra land. How much cheaper is it than stuff at the grocery store? Even ignoring cost of your time it seems like it would be at least marginal savings. Perhaps some higher-cost produce is better? But I mean 5 lb of carrots is pretty darn cheap..

Also depends on what you value your time at and why you are gardening in the first place.

If you make $100k a year and basically can convert your time to money at $60/hr through OT however much you want, gardening suddenly becomes very expensive if it's a part of your path to FI.

If you are gardening because you like it, that's different, but if your idea is to save money on food through gardening you need to consider your time cost, too.

[Sjalabais]

Even here in Norway you don't  really save money. Unless your diet is about eating huge amounts ofmonocrop every day. The input of time and equipment is huge and specialisation is hard to beat. But "homesteading" is not an economic decision, is it?

I can't believe I forgot to mention firewood above. The work needed....wow. It's good, character building work, but it's a lot of it - even if you're employing a gas-driven chain saw and electric cutting helpers everywhere. If you're aspiring to a sort of "help, the Russians are coming"-medieval-autarchy, it gets really time consuming.

[homestead neohio]

Anyone else with similar goals or already living the dream?

We're on the homesteading path, but not a 100% self-sufficiency path.  Agree with others it is a lifestyle, and we're pursuing it because it is the lifestyle we want.  We prefer a feeling of being grounded in a place and creating a productive efficient homestead in contrast to travelling or not being tied down.  You have to want to do these things because you enjoy them and the feeling of joy you get producing your own food, fuel, etc.

We consider homesteading to be small scale farming where the goal is supporting our family, not selling products for money.  We also try to create as many closed loop systems as possible so we require fewer inputs to be productive and have very little waste that goes to the landfill.  We will never be self-sufficient, and we're ok with that.  A community is more resilient than an individual homestead.  While there are more housing developments of McMansions where I am than homesteads, there are people doing this.  We are actively seeking them out to build community and relationships.  I find I would rather hang out with other aspiring homesteaders than almost anyone else, which tells me I'm on the right path. 

Agree that those who think it is a romantic idea and haven't done the never-ending hard work yet should try it out adding one project at a time.  You will either love it more and more or learn it is not for you.  Nothing is right or wrong there.

I have found our homesteading and FIRE goals largely complementary.  Our FIRE target is lower because our food budget is lower when producing for ourselves.  We are not only investing in index funds, though.  We are investing in homestead  infrastructure while working full-time so we'll have lower construction and maintenance costs, lower utilities, etc. in FIRE.

[Helvegen]

I'd like to have a hobby farm. I don't think could cut it off the grid. My sister and BIL have a nice hobby farm in rural KY. Satellite internet only and only spotty cell phone coverage...as in they don't have it in their house, but if they go out to the street, there is signal.

Yeah, satellite internet is definite no go.

But maybe 2-5 acres in the sub to exurbs to extent dsl/cable internet is run. Have a few goats, chickens, large garden, some fruit trees. Throw some solar panels on the roof.

[mskyle]

For those who are planning on doing this, how do you plan to handle, you know, Getting Old? My grandparents lived a moderately self-sufficient lifestyle in their retirement (woodstove, acreage, chickens and extensive vegetable garden, bees and maple syrup) but as they got older, they weren't able to get as much value out of their garden, they stopped sugaring and keeping chickens and bees, respiratory problems meant they had to get rid of the woodstove, and they just generally needed a lot of help from their kids and grandkids for stuff like maintaining the house and property. After my grandfather's death my grandmother had to move and sell their home (which they had designed and built themselves, and which we all loved) because it was hard for her to get to her doctor's appointments and no one was really comfortable with the idea of her alone at the end of a half-mile driveway in winter. They had a wonderful time there while it lasted and I doubt they had any regrets about it, but I guess I'm just saying - self-sufficiency only lasts so long if it depends even in part on your own physical labor.

Personally, I'm more interested in retiring in a small city or inner-ring suburb where I can have a vegetable garden (and maybe a couple of chickens if I can find a neighbor who will trade occasional chicken-sitting for eggs), but I'm still able to get out and about without driving. I don't feel like self-sufficiency is realistic for me, even as introverted as I am!

[Fudge102]

I'm definitely interested in this.  My girlfriend is the one who turned me on to the whole thing.  Truth be said though, I've always been a hands on, nature loving kinda guy.  If this gets me out of an office and dealing with plants and animals, I'm all for it.  That being said, I plan on finding some land in the northeast when I get out of the Navy in a year or so.  Sadly good land is hard to find at the right price.  I'll more than likely try to find something closer to a city so that there are the occasional night activities to go do as well as I'll probably need a job for a few more years until things get more situated.  The whole point is to grow the retirement income while getting the farm running, then when you get older and things become harder, you have a more or less untouched nest egg waiting to help you out.  But hopefully that'll be years later as the better quality food will do its part too!

[acroy]

I hope to be off-grid from utilities, but will only supplement my food supply. Kroger/etc are just too cheap and easy.
BTW, unless you get real good at it, growing your own (especially meat) costs more than purchasing. A lot of you will not agree with this, and admittedly my statement comes only from my own experience and that of people around me (friends/family/coworkers). By the time all the costs are added up (be honest about the costs! soil, planters, fences, seeds, tools, etc!) the veg can break even, the fruit seldom does unless you already have the tree, and the meat is horrifically expensive.
Best of luck to those who try it though!

What?! Whenever I've costed up homestead-type things, planting fruit trees has almost always come out as the best value for money. I can buy an apple tree at my local garden centre (well-known for not having the best prices) for £25. Plant. Wait. I could make that back on apples in about two years once it starts cropping. The only hard bit is planning ahead a few years. The only work is a few hours a year pruning, and then lots and lots of picking!

I wish you luck. The experiences I've been exposed to have not been very successful. The new tree dies. The mature tree gets sick. It needs water and fertilizer. Disease and pests damage the fruit. I'm looking out a window at several $500/ea landscaping trees which died, they had about 50% success rate (and these are 'pros'). Obviously not saying it can't be done, just don't expect 100% success.

[homestead neohio]

For those who are planning on doing this, how do you plan to handle, you know, Getting Old?

[snip]

...I'm just saying - self-sufficiency only lasts so long if it depends even in part on your own physical labor.

I personally plan to get old while doing chores that are meaningful to me and sustain my life.  It is only very recently that people have outsourced basically all their means to survival.

If I get some debilitating illness, I'll adjust.  Our homestead is close to world-class healthcare facilities.  I have lots of safety built in to my FI number.  We don't count our land and home as assets, owning them will be cheap rent forever (taxes and insurance).  If we were to need to move somewhere without so many chores, we'd sell and use that money.  Contingency planning is good, but I won't let "what if?" keep me from living how I want while I'm able.  Sounds like your grandparents had a long, happy time together with no regrets.  It's hard to accept new limitations, and mourn losing what was a good way of life, but that is only because it was so good while living it.

NOT doing the physical work of homesteading would mean I have to get my exercise some other way or get fat and lazy.  Pass the bedpan, please.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/09/18/is-it-convenient-would-i-enjoy-it-wrong-question/

If I can start homesteading while working, it is going to seem easy in FIRE since I'll have way more time.  I won't have to cram everything in on evenings and weekends.   I'll be able to enjoy everything more while I do it.  Maintaining existing systems takes way less effort than establishing them.  And if I someday tire of canning tomatoes in the heat of August, maybe I'll stop.  Buying canned organic tomatoes instead of growing and canning still won't blow my budget.

[mbl]

We aren't attempting homesteading by any stretch of the imagination.
But, I decided to list the off the grid/sustainable type things that we do for our household:

heat with wood
apple trees
cherry trees
raspberry bushes
hops
tomatoes,  peppers
line dry clothing

DH makes his own beer and has been for 30 years.  Tried some grain brewing recently which he said went well.
This is his 4th year growing English and Cascade variety hops which he uses in brewing.  He got Tamarack poles and put them up
to organize the hop lines better.

The apple trees have to be trimmed so that they grow well.  We don't spray but the result is usually good enough for some eating and especially for applesauce which we can.

I make jams and we also do tomato puree from Romas and stalks of basil.

When we burn brush or cuttings that aren't to be used for the wood stove, we usually cook dinner over the embers.   It always seems to please me to no end when we do that. 

I also use the water in the long garden hose when it has been in the sun all day.  It's reasonably warm and I'll wash things with it.  Another thing to warm my miserly soul.  :)

[Sjalabais]

The idea of closed loop efficiency and minimal waste is appealing. Getting creative to find out how to optimize things, staying away from chemicals and yet have a healthy, not wildlife-destroyed harvest are good challenges.

@mskyle, that's a great question. One of the reasons I feel we have littletime to realize our dreams. Then I shake it off and remember we live luxury lives...

This is one extreme example of homesteading in Siberia due to political prosecution:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tt2AYafET68
Her story shows how one bad harvest, accidents and coincidence can have the most tragic consequences. Just another reminder of why extremes tend to be something you'd not want to actively get into.

[Trudie]

As a household of two people we're in the "support the local farmer's market" camp.  We buy our food in bulk at Costco and have a small local grocer we like.  I also hit up Aldi when I'm there.  I suppose if we consumed enough meat it would pay to buy part of a cow or pig directly from a farmer, but it doesn't interest me.

There are benefits of growing your own, but not many direct financial bennies.  But if other things are important to you -- like knowing exactly how it was raised, enjoying the work of it, enjoying watching the passing of seasons and your work coming to fruition, enjoying unconventional varieties of fruits and veg, and like knowing that if you really needed to grow your own in a socio-economic-political shitstorm... then go for it.

[shelivesthedream]

I hope to be off-grid from utilities, but will only supplement my food supply. Kroger/etc are just too cheap and easy.
BTW, unless you get real good at it, growing your own (especially meat) costs more than purchasing. A lot of you will not agree with this, and admittedly my statement comes only from my own experience and that of people around me (friends/family/coworkers). By the time all the costs are added up (be honest about the costs! soil, planters, fences, seeds, tools, etc!) the veg can break even, the fruit seldom does unless you already have the tree, and the meat is horrifically expensive.
Best of luck to those who try it though!

What?! Whenever I've costed up homestead-type things, planting fruit trees has almost always come out as the best value for money. I can buy an apple tree at my local garden centre (well-known for not having the best prices) for £25. Plant. Wait. I could make that back on apples in about two years once it starts cropping. The only hard bit is planning ahead a few years. The only work is a few hours a year pruning, and then lots and lots of picking!

I wish you luck. The experiences I've been exposed to have not been very successful. The new tree dies. The mature tree gets sick. It needs water and fertilizer. Disease and pests damage the fruit. I'm looking out a window at several $500/ea landscaping trees which died, they had about 50% success rate (and these are 'pros'). Obviously not saying it can't be done, just don't expect 100% success.

So you're saying that you're going to buy a tree for $500 and if it ever dies then it wasn't worth it. I'm saying I'm going to buy a tree for £25 and if I get two years of full crop (after, say, five years of waiting) then I've broken even. Which means if I buy 2 trees and one dies and I get four years crop from the alive one, I'm even. Planting trees (of all kinds, not just fruit) is something I am really passionate about because we have to do it TODAY so that we have trees in decades time.

[SimplyMarvie]

In my prior life, before I got seduced away by Uncle Sam, I ran a community garden in a low income community with a large number of Immigrants in the Twin Cities suburbs. It is the one single thing that I miss the most about not being an expat and I am absolutely planning on getting back to gardening when we retire.

How our Minnesota garden, the city donated otherwise junk land (bordered by a gas station, a freeway and an airport) and we charged $20-60 a season to rent the plots, which covered water delivery and tilling. The plots were 20x30 or 20x60. We had a shared compost pile, a shared shed with donated tools, and had some donated seeds from a seed company in the area and shared them amongst members -- because seriously, no one EVER needs an entire package of zucchini seeds! We organized a bulk straw order for mulch once a year. While I was there we added fruit trees along the southern side and ended up doing a honey share arrangement with a local bee keeper, who set up hives on the edge of our garden. It helped us with pollination and him with happy bees. (We got more out of it than he did...)

I had a 20x60 plot every year, and we ended up with more than enough veggies to virtually eliminate the need to buy produce for our family (me, Mr. Marvie, and our boys) and my mom and my sister. I blanched and froze snap beans, peas, kale, grated zucchini, cut peppers, peanuts and cubed squash. We canned tomatoes in all their glory, made jam and apple sauce, pesto, dried herbs, the whole nine yards. It was probably one of the happiest, most satisfying things I have ever done in my life.

Here's a hint on those costs: if you plant things in the actual ground, you don't have to pay for soil, planters, etc. Mulching well with newspaper and straw not only virtually eliminates weeding, but also reduces your watering needs -- which is crucial as a time and effort saver when you're lugging water from a central faucet in 5 gallon buckets! The amount of actual tools you need is pretty limited; like anything, you can certainly buy more, but you don't NEED them. :)

Our hope is that some time soon we'll find The Right Place (TM) and can buy land and start to build up the homestead we eventually want to live in. We've got a plan put together -- we'd like to build a strawbale home, but will start with a camper and some outside projects (Orchard, deck, outdoor cooking space) and improve the place as we go. We'd probably never be completely self-sufficient, because I am not grinding my own flour, dammit. That's a pain. But we'd like to get closer as we go. :)

[redbird]

I'm already FIRE, and to be honest, that sounds like way too much work of the type I would not enjoy. At all.

Husband and I are working towards a house. The ultimate plan is to buy property and build a house. We would like to become more self-sufficient than we are now by having solar panels to either help off-set the cost of electricity or make it free (not planning to make money off of it like some). I also really want to have a vegetable garden, for both producing SOME of our own food reasons but also as an interesting hobby to get into. I do also want to learn more about preserving produce, since I imagine I will end up with more than I need of certain things!

But raising livestock or hunting? I couldn't do either unless really desperate. I'm not a vegetarian or vegan by any means, but I do love animals enough that I don't have the guts to kill one myself and then eat it. If I had chickens I would get attached to them and they would basically just be pets. We don't use eggs THAT much, so it's not even worth it for that part either.

I also have no interest in living in a place too rural. I simply use the internet too much. Satellite internet is not acceptable to me, nor am I going to use an expensive cell data plan. I want cable or fiber internet. Most people doing homesteading live in more rural homes with a larger piece of land than I plan to have. I know this doesn't apply to all homesteaders, obviously, but many seem to be that way.

[homestead neohio]

We'd probably never be completely self-sufficient, because I am not grinding my own flour, dammit.

Loved your whole post, SM.  We grind our own flour, we just don't grow our own grains!  My sons fight over who gets to grind first.

But if other things are important to you -- like knowing exactly how it was raised, enjoying the work of it, enjoying watching the passing of seasons and your work coming to fruition, enjoying unconventional varieties of fruits and veg, and like knowing that if you really needed to grow your own in a socio-economic-political shitstorm... then go for it.

Right on, Trudie.  DW and I are interested in all those things and fully appreciate that not everyone is.  The farmers need customers to make their living!  I'm friends with a local farmer who used to be a mechanical engineer.  He's a similar age as I am and chose many more working years at a lower income to do something he loves.  Every time I arrive at his farm he is ridiculously happy.  If he only grew food for himself, I think he'd be bored.

I also really want to have a vegetable garden, for both producing SOME of our own food reasons but also as an interesting hobby to get into.

I just can't ever get over that dirty, wet seeds turn into gloriously delicious plants.  Once planted, the garden grows without me doing anything*.  It's amazing.

*it does do better if I mulch/weed and water if dry, but still the sun shines and seeds germinate and grow without me.

[SimplyMarvie]

*it does do better if I mulch/weed and water if dry, but still the sun shines and seeds germinate and grow without me.

One of my jobs as the garden Coordinator was to go through the abandoned plots -- where people had planted, but had deserted their plants for whatever reason -- and pull out anything that was edible for donation to the local food pantry. Our soil was middling-decent, and if we didn't have a drought I would end up with literally TRUCKLOADS of produce every week out of maybe 10 garden plots where absolutely nothing had been done for months. (Especially if they planted Zucchini, omg.)

People who complain about the effort of gardening confuse me. :)

[SoccerLounge]

Planting trees (of all kinds, not just fruit) is something I am really passionate about because we have to do it TODAY so that we have trees in decades time.

Oh, look! Another shelivesthedream post that I agree the fuck out of. :)

I'm not planning on 100% homesteading in retirement - as others have said, way too much work! - but I plan to PLANT SOME EFFING TREES. And also have the structures in place to allow more self-sufficiency to be brought in if ever necessary. I've lived in a semi-homestead household before, and I am very aware of some of the work that's required. But it was still pretty great.

[Erica]

Yes we do this. It really works well now because I only work 3 days a week straight (Wed afternoon-Fri Morning at 10pm) and get 4 days off.

It increases ups your quality of life. And likely adds years to it.

We do not hunt but we do grow vegetables and eat much of what we pick. This week we are hella busy because it's blackberry season so we go in the wild and pick as much as we can. It lasts about 6 months. Berries are the healthiest fruit but we have none growing on our property. Just pears and apples. We also can the pears, and make blackberry syrup and jam. It's more about knowing you are eating organic than really saving money.
Gardening is pretty easy, you can even pay companies to haul in the dirt for you. Plant and there you go. We have potatoes all year long for free. Chickens are alot of work so we buy organic free range eggs from a neighbor. We cut our own firewood. We use the stove to slowly cook dinner, using a cast iron bowl on the stove during winter. We also hang our clothes out to dry. You don't need to go that far to experience the health benefits but go far enough that if the world ended tomorrow, you'd have the skills and knowledge to keep yourself alive. We know where a few springs are on BLM land too. Also we have a fire shelter, root cellar type dwelling under the ground.

[Erica]

http://bestplants.com/how-dirt-makes-you-happy-antidepressant-microbes-in-soil-the-new-prozac/

Dirt makes you happy!

[SoccerLounge]

Since you've been there before, I'd love to hear some details about that. Just curious.

Here are some random things from the top of my head:

• Firewood is great. Nothing like a wood-burning stove on a cool fall evening. But, as others have said... gathering and cutting it is WORK, even if all the wood's on your property.
  
• It's really helpful to have somewhere to prepare and butcher carcasses - whether animals you raised, or animals you hunted.
  
• Planning on somewhere with a well and no provision for outside water? You better have a Plan A through Z for if something breaks or etc. Taking water for granted is something that you can't do.
• Prepare for some food-growing fails (as the vegetable growers on this forum could probably tell you!)
• It helps to have more than two pairs of hands. We had some folks who lived in a little cabin elsewhere on the property part of whose 'rent' was helping run things.
• If you're gonna homestead somewhere snowy, you better have a plan for 1. clearing it, and 2. what happens if you can't clear it.
• Storing food and water in case something goes wrong isn't being a "silly prepper," it's essential.

There's tons more I could say, but I feel like there are probably some more hardcore homesteaders than me to advise on that. :) I only did it for a couple years and it was really more a 'homesteading apprenticeship' of sorts than anything else. EDIT: In fact, what it taught me was beautifully summed up by Erica in a previous post:

... if the world ended tomorrow, you'd have the skills and knowledge to keep yourself alive.

Obviously, Armageddon is unlikely! But nevertheless, you learn a tremendous amount about self-sufficiency. :)

[Erica]

Obviously, Armageddon is unlikely! But nevertheless, you learn a tremendous amount about self-sufficiency. :)

Yes true, but you didn't just say that, did you?!   Armageddon is a certainty.
This world is based on computers so it will fail- water systems, power companies, healthcare, banking, the telephone, etc..doors won't even automatically open in the grocery stores. Nothing is mechanical anymore, it's all being controlled and tracked remotely.

History teaches not to allow Gov't to control us.... but they do now.

The Feds now have control over the internet- https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/us-to-relinquish-remaining-control-over-the-internet/2014/03/14/0c7472d0-abb5-11e3-adbc-888c8010c799_story.html

I remember our son calling our house in a panic, he works for Apple. "OH MY GOD you wouldn't believe what is happening!!!" (SOPA) of course at the last minute, legislation was impacted by a young boy named Aaron Swartz who eventually paid with his life. Most didn't know what they were voting on nor it's ramifications.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpvcc9C8SbM <-- this is an excellent movie/documentaryMy 25 yr old son is not a Christian, sadly. I have no idea if Aaron Swartz was or not.

The 7 year reign of the anti-christ will occur. When they get control of the internet they are in control of the worlds food supply, water, Social Security Checks, Pensions, our cars (eventually) 401K's etc... To have the self sustaining skills for when the tribulation aka armageddon occurs in our lifetime is especially imperative for those who are not saved. There is a group of people aroudn the world who don't believe in the bible necessarily yet hold to similar beliefs, they are called survivalists. Stash away large amounts of cash, you'll need it ( though eventually the anti-christ will have everyone using a one world currency within that 7 yr reign).

We live off-grid and live a lifestyle mainly because my husband and son are not saved. Although even if they were, it wouldn't matter we'd still live this way. It's unfortunate but California is running out of bare land in order to live and keep some level of anonymity. No need to obsess on it, it isn't productive but wise to be prepared, nonetheless.

To think it won't happen is to put your head in the sand. It's been unfolding at an alarming rate, and what will inevitably transpire is the destruction of the world. I will stop with the dooms day stuff now. Just some thoughts to mull over :)

[Sjalabais]

...and thus, MissNancyPryor reconsidered her adoption plans.

[wenchsenior]

....oh, dear...

[shelivesthedream]

I vote that we should keep reading and considering everything, it seems to me that is how we all ended up on MMM to begin with.

I love that everyone on this forum is so nice and reasonable. It warms my heart that random internet strangers can respectfully agree to disagree!

[Sjalabais]

We're straying far from the topic now, but I have to say I agree that one should be able to say whatever one wants - as long as it is free of hatred and ambition to hurt others. That, luckily, was not the case.

Yet I hope I am also allowed to say that the pure mention of "them" running the universe in a conspiratory, James-Bond-Spectre-kind-of-way raises a couple of red flags, in addition to a devotion that I for myself (but wouldn't preach others to aline to) consider counter to the analytical rationalism that this lifestyle of considerate savings embodies. I even agree on the very severity of the political ambition for total surveillance, that seems to be a constant of our daily news, and only gets worse. But that's just politicians clamouring for power, more of it, and ever more of it, in a world feeling less and less safe while getting safer by the day. Civil society, churches and sects included, need to counter that. But not by singing the conspiracy gospel.

[SoccerLounge]

You know, I was a bit concerned about posting my last post in case the more adept homesteaders thought I was a silly poseur for writing my 101-level tips I learned from not even two full years of living on a semi-homestead.

Never would I have dreamed that a throwaway comment about the end of life was we know it would have been the thing that got picked up on! I guess you never know :)

I might be back to some of this even by year's end, with any luck. I'm about to start the process of purchasing some property. It won't be full-fledged (or even semi-fledged) stuff because I still have a day job I like, but it'll be huge to just get the piece of land under my ownership.

[Syonyk]

This is one aspect of my long term plans.

We've got a few acres now, and I plan to spend the next decade or so making it as productive as I can.  Gardens, chickens, rain water storage (even though it won't fill all our needs, it'll help, and lets me run a higher flow rate system for sprinklers and irrigation than the well pump can keep up with), solar, maybe some aquaponics... the works.

Long term, if the markets do great, fine.  I've got a nice hobby.

If they don't (which I think is likely in my lifetime), I can provide for a lot of our own needs locally, and have surplus to either trade locally or sell at farmers markets and the like.

Also, this will make a great environment to raise kids in. :)  I don't want my daughter (and any future kids) thinking meat comes from "The Grocery Store!"

[homestead neohio]

I just wanna keep some bees, man. 

Like everything else, bees are a lot of work, but the rewards are oh so sweet.  I started keeping bees because I wanted honey.  The honey is nice, but the main reason I keep bees now is that bees are amazing!  Unfortunately bees are struggling even more than humans to live in this world we are changing.  Partly due to pests with which honeybees have not co-evolved, partly due to toxins released while planting and protecting conventional monocrops.  I have had very little luck overwintering bees.  My worst year I lost 6 of 6 hives, and I always lose more than 50%.  Beekeeping is an emotional rollercoaster, from the rapid spring growth of hives and promise of honey while every green thing grows to the sadness of a hive which no long hums in the bleak winter.  Joy and heartbreak.  In other words, just another way I know I'm living.

We've got a few acres now, and I plan to spend the next decade or so making it as productive as I can.  Gardens, chickens, rain water storage (even though it won't fill all our needs, it'll help, and lets me run a higher flow rate system for sprinklers and irrigation than the well pump can keep up with), solar, maybe some aquaponics... the works.

Long term, if the markets do great, fine.  I've got a nice hobby.

If they don't (which I think is likely in my lifetime), I can provide for a lot of our own needs locally, and have surplus to either trade locally or sell at farmers markets and the like.

Also, this will make a great environment to raise kids in. :)  I don't want my daughter (and any future kids) thinking meat comes from "The Grocery Store!"

+1 to all of this.  Sounds like a good time, Syonyk, seeing this all come to fruition.  Where I am this is not a common way to live.  When people are confused about what we are doing and why, I tell them I am practicing to be able to feed my sons when they become teenagers.  My sons have plucked chickens and seen a hog butchered.  They know where meat comes from.

[Syonyk]

+1 to all of this.  Sounds like a good time, Syonyk, seeing this all come to fruition.  Where I am this is not a common way to live.  When people are confused about what we are doing and why, I tell them I am practicing to be able to feed my sons when they become teenagers.  My sons have plucked chickens and seen a hog butchered.  They know where meat comes from.

It's going to be an awful lot of work... I've got that much figured out. :)

Still not sure if I'm planning to kill the chickens after they're no longer laying as much, or just keep them around in retirement for "eat bugs, eat cheatgrass, mulch everything" usefulness.  I'll see.  We have enough predators around (owls, hawks, the occasional coyote) that "old age" would be a welcome problem to have to worry about.

[Helvegen]

As a household of two people we're in the "support the local farmer's market" camp.  We buy our food in bulk at Costco and have a small local grocer we like.  I also hit up Aldi when I'm there.  I suppose if we consumed enough meat it would pay to buy part of a cow or pig directly from a farmer, but it doesn't interest me.

There are benefits of growing your own, but not many direct financial bennies.  But if other things are important to you -- like knowing exactly how it was raised, enjoying the work of it, enjoying watching the passing of seasons and your work coming to fruition, enjoying unconventional varieties of fruits and veg, and like knowing that if you really needed to grow your own in a socio-economic-political shitstorm... then go for it.

I've considered buying 1/4 to 1/2 shares of pigs and cows too because of feels, but the problem is there is way too much wastage in that for my family of three. There are only certain cuts of those animals that we will reliably eat in a reasonable amount of time. As much as I love pork loin, it seems dumb to waste a bunch of energy and resources raising a whole hog when I really only want its loin and maybe shoulder. I can't really see raising any mammal besides maybe rabbit or sheep primarily for meat and I doubt I would even bother with that. When I see mammals, I primarily think dairy and wool production. And then I think goat or sheep, no cows. Cow would be way too much milk for just the three of us.

Meat I would get mostly from raising chickens and turkeys. If I could get some aquaponics setup, then I would add some trout to that. Then I would go to Costco to buy pork loin and beef tri-tip.

I container garden now and it is a constant battle against nature. I have a blueberry bush that produces almost maintenance free and that is great but...I lost all of my basil to rabbits. Birds peck at my strawberries. It didn't rain while I was on vacation and ruined my raspberry crop. The weather is too cold this year for my tomatoes. Etc.

[Syonyk]

If I could get some aquaponics setup, then I would add some trout to that. Then I would go to Costco to buy pork loin and beef tri-tip.

Grow tilapia first.  They'll shrug off system issues that will kill most other fish.  And they eat everything.

[Erica]

From the You've-got-to-be-Shitting-Me department:  the very next second after I submitted the above post I got a message that I was banned from the forum.  No way!  Unless MMM is banning disagreement or contrary views anytime soon I know I didn't break a forum rule!  A quick search from another device helped me recall that an ISP error can occur where you get randomly assigned an ISP from some other banned source, so I followed the advice to clear it and am back.  Sheesh, I didn't even mention the specific religion with a faction of hateful fanatics by name and yet I thought I was zapped! 

I didn't think arebelspy was dropping the hammer on certain topics and am glad to know I was right.  :D

How did you get back on? That happened to me when my husband decided to install zenmate. Not here but on another forum. We uninstalled it