Anyone here watch Bill Maher?

[coppertop]

We watched his most recent episode last night.  He had Jeff Bridges on, who was talking about what each of us can do for the environment.  There was some slamming of people buying SUV's, which made me sit up and pay attention, because I have been thinking of trading in my 2010 Civic for a used SUV early next year. 

I have three grandchildren who live out of state.  When the Seattlites visit, we have quite a time trying to fit my daughter and two car seats in the back of our Civic.  I think of my niece with three children, who had to buy an SUV just so she could fit those car seats into one vehicle and drive her family around.  All of the people I know with small kids are in the same predicament.  When I was a child, my parents owned a Corvair ("Unsafe at Any Speed" --Ralph Nader).  My parents squeezed five kids - really- into that Corvair.  Those days are done.  It seems that any parent or grandparent who must drive car-seat age children really has no choice but to own an SUV or van.  We are semi-rural - no public transportation to pediatricians etc.  Any thoughts on this?  Am I all wet?

[sherr]

I think you're partially correct. A family with two kids in car seats can get along fine with a sedan, but one extra kid and you are pretty much required to upgrade to a vehicle that has that third row.

The flipside though is that families of 5 or more are pretty uncommon these days. Mere grandparents don't necessarily need a larger vehicle, you just have to be willing to drive two cars when the grandkids visit (theirs and yours, presumably). So there are definitely families that need an SUV or minivan, but that number is a lot less than the number of people who currently have them.

[Mr. Green]

There are numerous websites out there that tell you what car/ car seat combos allow three across in a sedan. It's very doable, though 5 people and luggage in a sedan may be an issue on a long trip. For daily driving it's great because you don't lose the fuel economy and save on the cost of the vehicle.

[fattest_foot]

Seems to me that you're falling into the trap of buying something for the incredibly infrequent family visits (maybe a handful of days a year) and ignoring the 300+ days of the year when you won't need it.

We did the same thing when we bought our house, we have a 3 bedroom house when it's just the two of us. Because we obviously need the extra room for visitors! Had I thought about it more and realized that we have 2 empty bedrooms for 95% of the year, and the extra money we spent on that we could've just put visitors up in a hotel, I think we would have adjusted our needs downwards big time.

It sounds ridiculous, but calculate how much extra money you'd spend on gas (and maybe vehicle expenses in general) with an SUV and figure out if you could rent an SUV when family visits.

[partgypsy]

I bought a Mazda 5 and I like it. You can have the configuration of 4 seats and hatchback/luggage area, or 6 seats (or 5 seats plus half a hatchback area). We normally have the 4 seat configuration, but if I'm driving my kids and their friends I can get that third row out. The downsides are it has regular car clearance, so if you drive on dirt/unpaved or rough roads (not sure how rural you are) that may not be ideal. And the seats are not super padded for very long distance driving. There are many more options out there for what would you want, that do not involve an SUV.   
https://www.cars.com/articles/which-cars-fit-three-car-seats-1420668847322/

[radram]

I like the occational rental idea.

I would need to compare the travel costs of 1 larger rental car/SUV vs just driving our 2 cars. For us, we would just drive 2 cars for the week. The gas alone would be cheaper to drive our 35mpg cars vs a 15mpg beast. plus no rental fee for the week.

[Fishindude]

I get a kick out of the guys that own multiple houses and jet set all over the world on a weekly basis telling us how we could do better environmentally.
Bet neither of them has ever planted a tree.

[GuitarStv]

Might be a lot cheaper to buy three of these (https://www.its-mystyle.com/products/child-secure-seatbelt-vest-portable-safety-seat?variant=8114630787175&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxvbdBRC0ARIsAKmec9Y2HBTTPY4oXixS2lLkUdb_TfAiWTJM8ze7JKYWpX0qisSXxe5e5aUaAr-pEALw_wcB) as child restraints for 150$ than spend multiple thousands of dollars on on a new vehicle to fit bulky child seats.

[eljefe-speaks]

Yes, I watch and enjoy Bill Maher on YouTube. I can see how he would come across as smug to the Right, but, IMHO, his points are spot on.

[EricEng]

We did the same thing when we bought our house, we have a 3 bedroom house when it's just the two of us. Because we obviously need the extra room for visitors! Had I thought about it more and realized that we have 2 empty bedrooms for 95% of the year, and the extra money we spent on that we could've just put visitors up in a hotel, I think we would have adjusted our needs downwards big time.

Except you would never pay for their hotel and they would never accept that if you did offer.  What will actually happen is you will just get less visitors.  Having an extra room is a good way to get visitors.  When I had a one bedroom apartment in DC, no one would visit me.  When I had a two bedroom, lots traveled to visit.  Depends how you value you visitors.

Doesn't really matter if you can fit 2-3 car seats in a sedan if you are too tall to sit in front of them which is my problem.  When we get more than one child we will switch to a minivan because I can't fit in front of a car seat in either of our current sedans.

[Pigeon]

I raised two children while driving a Toyota Corolla.  DH had a Camry for most of that time, which was slightly bigger but not much. I have no idea what the problem is.  No, I didn't get called on to do a lot of car-pool duty, but our school system has bus service and it genuinely wasn't an issue more than maybe less than a dozen times in all those years.  Car seats are a giant PITA any way you look at them, but they worked just fine in my little Corolla.

I would never switch to an SUV to haul grand children around once in a blue moon

[GuitarStv]

Doesn't really matter if you can fit 2-3 car seats in a sedan if you are too tall to sit in front of them which is my problem.  When we get more than one child we will switch to a minivan because I can't fit in front of a car seat in either of our current sedans.

How tall are you?

I'm 6'0 and about 200lbs with long legs, and have done many long car trips with my son's car seat behind me in our 2005 Toyota Corolla.

[Pigeon]

Doesn't really matter if you can fit 2-3 car seats in a sedan if you are too tall to sit in front of them which is my problem.  When we get more than one child we will switch to a minivan because I can't fit in front of a car seat in either of our current sedans.

How tall are you?

I'm 6'0 and about 200lbs with long legs, and have done many long car trips with my son's car seat behind me in our 2005 Toyota Corolla.

Yup, my dh is 6'4" with a 37 inch inseam, and would drive my Corolla regularly with the kids in car seats.

[GuitarStv]

Doesn't really matter if you can fit 2-3 car seats in a sedan if you are too tall to sit in front of them which is my problem.  When we get more than one child we will switch to a minivan because I can't fit in front of a car seat in either of our current sedans.

How tall are you?

I'm 6'0 and about 200lbs with long legs, and have done many long car trips with my son's car seat behind me in our 2005 Toyota Corolla.

Yup, my dh is 6'4" with a 37 inch inseam, and would drive my Corolla regularly with the kids in car seats.

My uncle is 7'2 and 300 lbs.  I think that it would be legitimately difficult to fit into the same space for him . . . but he's also an awful lot bigger than many of the people who have told me that they need an SUV for 'leg room'.

[mm1970]

We watched his most recent episode last night.  He had Jeff Bridges on, who was talking about what each of us can do for the environment.  There was some slamming of people buying SUV's, which made me sit up and pay attention, because I have been thinking of trading in my 2010 Civic for a used SUV early next year. 

I have three grandchildren who live out of state.  When the Seattlites visit, we have quite a time trying to fit my daughter and two car seats in the back of our Civic.  I think of my niece with three children, who had to buy an SUV just so she could fit those car seats into one vehicle and drive her family around.  All of the people I know with small kids are in the same predicament.  When I was a child, my parents owned a Corvair ("Unsafe at Any Speed" --Ralph Nader).  My parents squeezed five kids - really- into that Corvair.  Those days are done.  It seems that any parent or grandparent who must drive car-seat age children really has no choice but to own an SUV or van.  We are semi-rural - no public transportation to pediatricians etc.  Any thoughts on this?  Am I all wet?

We are able to fit two carseats and an adult in the back of our Civic, but it's a squeeze, and you definitely want the smallest adult in the back.  The key is to put the adult in the center.

When you get to 3 kids in carseats, it gets really difficult without a minivan - still do-able for SOME cars / seat configurations.

Summary:
we have a Civic and a Matrix
we have two kids - and at one time, they were both in carseats (currently only one of them)
my spouse is 6' tall, and we were still able to drive with a rear-facing seat behind him, though usually we put it in the center or behind the passenger seat.

[Davnasty]

Yes, I watch and enjoy Bill Maher on YouTube. I can see how he would come across as smug to the Right, but, IMHO, his points are spot on.

I don't, but I was curious what others might think. I guess that's not what this thread is actually about though... click bait taken.

[mm1970]

I get a kick out of the guys that own multiple houses and jet set all over the world on a weekly basis telling us how we could do better environmentally.
Bet neither of them has ever planted a tree.

http://www2.philly.com/philly/entertainment/movies/jeff-bridges-big-lebowski-philadelphia-environmental-film-festival-living-in-the-futures-past-20180329.html

Jeff Bridges is pretty well known locally for being pretty "green", though I'm more familiar with his anti-hunger campaign.

[EricEng]

Doesn't really matter if you can fit 2-3 car seats in a sedan if you are too tall to sit in front of them which is my problem.  When we get more than one child we will switch to a minivan because I can't fit in front of a car seat in either of our current sedans.

How tall are you?

I'm 6'0 and about 200lbs with long legs, and have done many long car trips with my son's car seat behind me in our 2005 Toyota Corolla.

6'4 and I'm referring to rear facing car seats.  Driver seat has to be all the way forward in Subaru or 2d Civic when there is a rear facing behind and I can't get my leg around the wheel to hit the brake like that.  Even the passenger seat is smashed into the front with rear facing behind it.  I can sit in front of it for only 20-30 mins before my knees start to go to sleep.  Given how my knees are sitting up on the dash in front of the air bag I fear I would not survive an accident that activates the air bags.

We have found subaru crosstrek and new honda accord can comfortably fit rear facing seats even behind the driver.  So not all sedans are impossible, just most with tall people and rear facing car seats. 

And before someone says rear facing is only for two years...that doesn't help if you are aiming for 3-5 kids spaced 1-2 years apart meaning you'll have two rear facing seats for 4-6 years.

[Caroline PF]

I agree with the others: don't buy a bigger vehicle just to drive around grandkids who live out of state. There are a lot of better options, including driving two vehicles, or renting a larger car for the short period. And I definitely wouldn't buy carseats unless the parents tell you exactly which one to buy.

Might be a lot cheaper to buy three of these (https://www.its-mystyle.com/products/child-secure-seatbelt-vest-portable-safety-seat?variant=8114630787175&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxvbdBRC0ARIsAKmec9Y2HBTTPY4oXixS2lLkUdb_TfAiWTJM8ze7JKYWpX0qisSXxe5e5aUaAr-pEALw_wcB) as child restraints for 150$ than spend multiple thousands of dollars on on a new vehicle to fit bulky child seats.

To any one else looking at these, I am very suspicious of these safety seats as a replacement for a car seat or a booster. This is definitely not a five-point harness that is securely attached to the seat. It looks like it's supposed to be a booster seat. There are two kinds of booster seats: ones that lift the child up to have the seatbelt fit appropriately, and ones that pull the seat belt down with positioners to properly fit the child.

This looks like a belt positioner type, but I can't see anything on the vest that appropriately position the seat belt. And none of the pictures show how the seatbelt goes. And there is no description of how to use the seat belt properly. Oh, I didn't see any evidence of crash testing.

Compare to https://ridesafertravelvest.com/ for something similar that is actually crash-tested (and unfortunately about 3 times as expensive).

[partgypsy]

There is always the minivan. Safer and less gas guzzling than an SUV. You would have to do individual comparisons when comparing minivans to hybrid/smaller suvs.

[DreamFIRE]

No, I most definitely do not watch Bill Maher.  Even a little bit is too much.

[GuitarStv]

I agree with the others: don't buy a bigger vehicle just to drive around grandkids who live out of state. There are a lot of better options, including driving two vehicles, or renting a larger car for the short period. And I definitely wouldn't buy carseats unless the parents tell you exactly which one to buy.

Might be a lot cheaper to buy three of these (https://www.its-mystyle.com/products/child-secure-seatbelt-vest-portable-safety-seat?variant=8114630787175&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxvbdBRC0ARIsAKmec9Y2HBTTPY4oXixS2lLkUdb_TfAiWTJM8ze7JKYWpX0qisSXxe5e5aUaAr-pEALw_wcB) as child restraints for 150$ than spend multiple thousands of dollars on on a new vehicle to fit bulky child seats.

To any one else looking at these, I am very suspicious of these safety seats as a replacement for a car seat or a booster. This is definitely not a five-point harness that is securely attached to the seat. It looks like it's supposed to be a booster seat. There are two kinds of booster seats: ones that lift the child up to have the seatbelt fit appropriately, and ones that pull the seat belt down with positioners to properly fit the child.

This looks like a belt positioner type, but I can't see anything on the vest that appropriately position the seat belt. And none of the pictures show how the seatbelt goes. And there is no description of how to use the seat belt properly. Oh, I didn't see any evidence of crash testing.

Compare to https://ridesafertravelvest.com/ for something similar that is actually crash-tested (and unfortunately about 3 times as expensive).

I've hated the modern child seat for as long as I've been inflicted with the legal requirement that I strap my child into one, and have been kinda intrigued by the alternatives.  I didn't realize that the ones I linked were unsafe though (they were just the first ones that came up in a google search).  My apologies.

[Caroline PF]

I agree with the others: don't buy a bigger vehicle just to drive around grandkids who live out of state. There are a lot of better options, including driving two vehicles, or renting a larger car for the short period. And I definitely wouldn't buy carseats unless the parents tell you exactly which one to buy.

Might be a lot cheaper to buy three of these (https://www.its-mystyle.com/products/child-secure-seatbelt-vest-portable-safety-seat?variant=8114630787175&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxvbdBRC0ARIsAKmec9Y2HBTTPY4oXixS2lLkUdb_TfAiWTJM8ze7JKYWpX0qisSXxe5e5aUaAr-pEALw_wcB) as child restraints for 150$ than spend multiple thousands of dollars on on a new vehicle to fit bulky child seats.

To any one else looking at these, I am very suspicious of these safety seats as a replacement for a car seat or a booster. This is definitely not a five-point harness that is securely attached to the seat. It looks like it's supposed to be a booster seat. There are two kinds of booster seats: ones that lift the child up to have the seatbelt fit appropriately, and ones that pull the seat belt down with positioners to properly fit the child.

This looks like a belt positioner type, but I can't see anything on the vest that appropriately position the seat belt. And none of the pictures show how the seatbelt goes. And there is no description of how to use the seat belt properly. Oh, I didn't see any evidence of crash testing.

Compare to https://ridesafertravelvest.com/ for something similar that is actually crash-tested (and unfortunately about 3 times as expensive).

I've hated the modern child seat for as long as I've been inflicted with the legal requirement that I strap my child into one, and have been kinda intrigued by the alternatives.  I didn't realize that the ones I linked were unsafe though (they were just the first ones that came up in a google search).  My apologies.

TBH, I'm not totally sure that they are unsafe. It's just that there's not a lot of information on them on that site. So just based on the pictures and the description they don't look safe to me. It's not clear how the seatbelt works with them. And the only pictures of kids sitting in them, or them installed in cars, don't have the seatbelt on. So I'm afraid that people would use them without the seatbelt which would be worthless in a crash. Or that they use the seatbelt, but the seat doesn't adequately redirect the seatbelt, making the child more likely to suffer abdominal or neck injuries.

I agree with you that car seats are torture devices, but due to a loss in my family, I tend to be a little fanatical about car seat safety.

[MDfive21]

i have for years, but since the 2016 election i've reached my quota of outrage.  instead of watching as soon as i can get to it, sometimes i go months without, then binge a couple episodes.  even those i zone out if they have obvious 'conservative' liars, but often they'll have guests on that i like and want to see more of so it's worth it to see who is on and what they stand for.

mostly, i agree with maher's opinions.

i used to listen to democracy now with amy goodman every day, but i'm trying to lower my information intake.  unfortunately at work i have one tv on cnbc and one on fox news all day.  bleh.  thankfully, at least the consensus is to change it to sports when there's a day game on.