Author Topic: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?  (Read 27115 times)

kelly1mm

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Hello fellow rural dwellers!

I was wondering if any other MMM fans lived and work in a rural area.  Based on many of the comments here on the forums it seems that most MMM fans live and/or work in urban areas.  While I LOVE MMM and get a lot of good suggestions and philosophy from MMM, some things are just 'different' when you live in a rural area.  Vehicles seem to be the most obvious.  However, when seeing early retirement and financial independence as simply a mathematical equation, I believe that living rural with the increased vehicle use and lower (in general) salaries can and often is offset by the ability to be more self sufficient in food/energy (ie gardens/chickens/heat with wood, etc) and the MASSIVELY lower housing costs.  In the end, it all comes down to savings rate, right?  So, if you can live rural and save 50% of your take home, you are in the exact same place mathematically that an urban person who is saving 50% of their take home.

I suppose one could argue that the absolute fastest way to FI would be to live and work in a urban setting then bail out to the country where your bigger absolute stash would go much farther.

I am not really interested in the cultural issues that urban/suburban/rural have differences in.  We all I think know them and as a former born and raised SF bay area resident, believe me I live them daily.  Some people can't stand the quiet of the country, others can't stand being surrounded by people.  Different strokes for different folks I say!

What I would like to discuss is the differences in your path to FI from the 'standard' MMM advice and how things have worked out for you personally.  Spouse and I are not FI yet but well on our way.  We 'could' be FI in 3 years, but are planning on 8 more total.  Kind of a golden handcuffs situation for my wife as she is a school teacher.

One other point if anyone cares to comment is about the ability to work remotely.  I do that during tax season and LOVE it.  Make above average wages for the area just based on working 5 months a year for a silicon valley based firm.  Still WAY lower than working in silicon valley, but way more than the $9 per hour average wages here in a rural area.

So, please give me you thoughts or comments!
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 04:13:33 PM by kelly1mm »

Rural

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2014, 06:22:28 PM »
As you might guess... :-)


Rural here, and I did work completely remotely for several years (my own business plus teaching online). I gave it up for the tenure track, and usually, I'm not sorry one bit. I drive 35 miles each way to what few others here would consider a city (pop. 35k) where the college is located ~4 times a week and work remotely the other day. Then I come home and look out my window/off my porch at a mountain vista with no people or human structures in it. :-)


So. It is very different, the path to FI. We took a tremendous pay cut to move here (from a "real" city), on the order of about 75%. The cost of living is so much lower that now, eight years later, we're much better off than we would've been. A big part of that difference is housing, true, but everything else is incredibly cheaper as well. Plus, most of the stupid splurges just aren't available at all. :-)

CarDude

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2014, 06:51:10 PM »
I don't have anything to contribute except that I hope this thread takes off.

brewer12345

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2014, 06:54:23 PM »
Trapped in the burbs myself, but I am envious.  DW would never buy into escaping from the clutches of a megalopolis, so it is what it is.  At least here I can escape to places where I can expect to die by myself if I badly break a leg or something while I am out there doing my thing.

kelly1mm

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2014, 06:55:12 PM »
I did figure you would be chiming in Rural, based on the username if nothing else!

Agree about many things being cheaper in rural areas.  Getting any type of work done on your property is cheaper using locals (so long as they know you are local too and not an 'outsider' - there really are two rates.  One for the locals, and another for the vacationers)  I also see many more chances for barter/trade than in the city.  While that seems counter intuitive, maybe it is because many people here are much more used to the trade/barter economy.

We are about 50 miles from a 'city' of about 50k (Morgantown WV in one direction, Cumberland MD the other) and 125 miles from a real city (Pittsburgh PA). 

Nothing better in life than sitting on our deck with a cup of coffee and hearing nothing but the sound of the river below and seeing no other people/structures.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 06:57:39 PM by kelly1mm »

Milspecstache

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2014, 06:59:08 PM »
I am 30miles from the city but love my little farm.  I can't see any neighbors so the privacy is amazing.  Tried urban areas but couldn't handle it longterm.


kelly1mm

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2014, 07:04:01 PM »
I am 30miles from the city but love my little farm.  I can't see any neighbors so the privacy is amazing.  Tried urban areas but couldn't handle it longterm.

Do you have a real farm or are you a 'homesteader' type farm?  We don't sell anything off our land (well, we do trade eggs/give away extra produce with others in our area that help with projects).

Has your farm income and/or the reduction in costs associated with your farm helped in moving towards FI?  Do you have a job in the city and commute or do you work in the local area (or maybe you are retired!!!)?

NV Teacher

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2014, 07:30:29 PM »
I live and work in a rural area.  One nice perk is that my school district considers it a hardship to work at a rural school so they pay me a rural pay stipend every year.  Between that and the lower insurance costs it's close to a $200/month raise.  One other big bonus is that there are not a lot of shopping options so I've cut my spending down quite a bit.  I could drive to the city but when I think about the cost to drive there and back and the time it would take I talk myself into staying home.  It took me a few months to adjust but now I could never move back to the city. 

A couple of funnies.

I got to school a little early one morning and the principal was in the parking lot with a shovel and trash can.  The cows next to the school had escaped during the night and wandered over and left us some nice treats. 

I worked with a teacher that moved here from the city.  She was so excited to get some chickens for eggs.  After a few weeks she wanted me to come and look at her chickens because there was something wrong with them so I went over after school to take a look.  Turns out her chickens were turkeys.  She didn't believe me until one fanned out his tail as we stood there talking.  She lasted two years and it was back to the city for her.  Living in the country isn't for everyone.

Norrie

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2014, 07:38:46 PM »
This is possibly my favorite thread on MMM. I can't wait to see where it goes.

We would like to end up rural one day. We're not able to go for it right now, but once the kids are grown and off to their own lives, it is a strong possibility. For now, I'll just sit and enjoy this thread, and be a bit jealous of your views/sounds. Right now I hear the sound of traffic about 40 feet from our bedroom window.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2014, 07:45:39 PM »
I live a little bit rural but find that we pay more for groceries at the tiny local store vs the Fred Meyer 15 miles closer to the city.  How do you balance paying $3 per loaf of bread, $3.50 for a gallon of milk local vs $2 and $2.59 at Fred Meyer?

kelly1mm

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2014, 07:57:10 PM »
I live a little bit rural but find that we pay more for groceries at the tiny local store vs the Fred Meyer 15 miles closer to the city.  How do you balance paying $3 per loaf of bread, $3.50 for a gallon of milk local vs $2 and $2.59 at Fred Meyer?

Me particularly?  I (well my wife) bakes bread once a week.  We do buy the flour though!

I also have to drive into the "city" of about 35k population once a week for business.  125 miles each way.  I do all my shopping while on that tax deductible business trip at the cheaper grocery stores!  I just pack the cooler in the car and put the perishables in the cooler for the ride back.

I do however see your point and if we had to buy many things from the local rip off grocery store, that would increase the cost for groceries.  However, we get a LARGE portion of our food right from our land (chickens, fish from the river, big gardens, hunting, etc.)

MrsPete

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2014, 06:21:36 AM »
I live in the suburbs now, but I grew up in a rural area . . . and will return to a rural area in a few years after my kids are out of high school.  When I was a kid, where we lived was REAL country:  We lived on a farm and were surrounded by farms.  Going anywhere without a car was pretty much impossible. 

Benefits of a country life:
- Quiet, peaceful, private, no crime, your kids can play outside and have more freedom
- Can have animals, a garden, whatever suits your fancy
- No neighborhood organizations to tell you what you can and can't do
- Housing and land are less expensive
- Amazon.com is now your friend; when I was a kid, we had one grocery store, a drug store and a tractor supply/hardware store in town.  Today my brother still lives in that area, and he orders pretty much everything from Amazon.  In this respect, the world is smaller than it used to be. 

Negatives of a country life:
- The work never, never, never ends -- there's always a tree down or something else that needs doing, and often this costs in terms of both money and time.  If you cannot do things like cut up a 100-year old oak tree or take care of a deer that's died (or been shot and beheaded) on your property, you may end up paying someone to do those tasks. 
- "Running errands" often means a lengthy trip into town OR buying from a limited number of stores nearby . . . you can plan for your groceries, etc. and avoid extra trips, but it also means you have to drive farther when you're sick and need to see the doctor or other such errands.  No matter how good you are at planning, you will be on the road more often than you expect, and that costs money. 
- You don't have access to a wide variety of restaurants and entertainment.  This is both good and bad:  You won't be able to run out and get a sandwich for lunch, which means you won't spend . . . but sometimes cooking at home does become tedious, and going out is more of a stretch.   
- Your access to money-saving places like libraries and discount stores is limited -- or, more accurately, the drive is a hassle. 
- When you need something done that is beyond your capability -- say, plumbing or roofing -- you'll have few options as to whom you're going to hire.  And sometimes you have to pay extra for them to come to you. 
- Do not assume that city services like trash pick up or water will be available to you.  You may end up paying for trash service (or hauling your own trash to the dump), and you may have to dig a well.  Some services like cable TV may not be available everywhere.  You should check the quality of cell phone service too.
- While your house may be cheaper, things like extra-long driveways may add to your cost. 
- Bike riding won't be as possible:  Narrow country roads may or may not be safe, distances may be daunting. 


Living in the country is not cheaper than living in the suburbs, though you do spend in different places.  We started our married life in the country, but we moved for several reasons:  1) the school system is great if you want your kid to get an agricultural or vocational course of study, but it was not a good college prep situation.  2) we were constantly on the road to our jobs, and it was incompatible with family life.  3) even with our attempts at good planning, we were always running back into town for shopping, kids' activities, doctor visits, etc.  We were just on the road too much. 

However, we miss it.  Once the kids are out of school, we are going to go back and build our retirement house in the country. 

megalo

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2014, 06:35:40 AM »
I've lived rural for the past year, after being in a big city for the previous 15 years. The easiest way to save money is that there's nothing to spend money on. After living the city life I hate having to drive everywhere, so I cut trips where I can - I only go to the grocery store once a month - which further reduces my opportunities to spend money. Limited grocery trips also encourage me to plan my meals better, and I end up spending a lot less on food than I used to.

On the other hand - UPS/FedEx still deliver, and shopping on Amazon is way too easy. Reduces my need to drive, but increases my spending.

My thought on living/retiring rural with no prior rural experience: logistics get way more complicated, especially if you don't have a built-in social network. It turns out that I'm not nearly self-sufficient enough to live alone in the middle of nowhere. Next month I'm heading to a small town (~6k) less than 20 miles from a metro area. I'll miss the views but I think it'll be a net quality of life improvement.

Rural

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2014, 06:45:49 AM »
I live a little bit rural but find that we pay more for groceries at the tiny local store vs the Fred Meyer 15 miles closer to the city.  How do you balance paying $3 per loaf of bread, $3.50 for a gallon of milk local vs $2 and $2.59 at Fred Meyer?


Must depend on the rural area. When I go into the cities, I can't believe the high grocery prices. I've quit stopping for anything in the city associated with the college unless I'm looking for an "exotic" I can't get locally (couscous most recently). Assuming the grocery there is cheaper than ordering online and paying shipping, I'll go in for that only. Happens maybe three times a year. Oh, and I buy whiskey in the city since the area where I live is dry. So liquor store probably happens slightly more frequently than grocery store :-)


Almost everything else is cheaper, too. Food, land, even eating out (limited choices, but so cheap that even figuring in fuel to get there it's half the price of the city). Getting work done on the property when we do hire it out. Not fuel, though. Gasoline and diesel are cheaper in areas where there are interstates.

MissStache

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2014, 06:47:09 AM »
I grew up in a very rural area and will be going to a (different) rural area when I FIRE.  Can't wait- I miss it bigtime.

I worked with a teacher that moved here from the city.  She was so excited to get some chickens for eggs.  After a few weeks she wanted me to come and look at her chickens because there was something wrong with them so I went over after school to take a look.  Turns out her chickens were turkeys.  She didn't believe me until one fanned out his tail as we stood there talking. 

This is the funniest thing I have heard in a long time.  Thank you for sharing!

mrsggrowsveg

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2014, 07:19:27 AM »
We live in a rural area about 25 miles from 2 "cities".  My husband now works from home/travels and I work in one of the cities.  The cost of living is ridiculously low.  Although urban areas can be great for saving/making money, the rural life also really lends itself to mustachianism.  We grow organic vegetables and fruit and raise pigs and chickens.  We are taking some time off right now, but usually make extra money selling at the local farmer's market.  Our small town has an excellent library and pool that we can bike to.  Also, there are many orchards and pretty lakes that make for cheap weekend fun.  Our lack of any decent restaurant keeps us from eating out too often.  We are close to our neighbors and often barter farm related items and work with them.  Living on a farm really encourages an outdoor lifestyle.  When the weather is nice, we stay outside until dark and even eat outside.  I feel so lucky to be raising our family here.

Rural

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2014, 07:37:57 AM »

Benefits of a country life:
- Quiet, peaceful, private, no crime, your kids can play outside and have more freedom
- Can have animals, a garden, whatever suits your fancy
- No neighborhood organizations to tell you what you can and can't do
- Housing and land are less expensive
- Amazon.com is now your friend; when I was a kid, we had one grocery store, a drug store and a tractor supply/hardware store in town.  Today my brother still lives in that area, and he orders pretty much everything from Amazon.  In this respect, the world is smaller than it used to be. 


Yes to the quiet, etc. but not to a lack of crime here -- we're in meth country.


Yes on the actually owning your own property (mostly) and on being able to afford it.


Ordering online is a convenience, but it can still be limited. I do holiday shopping online but not much else because the delivery trucks can't manage my drive so I have to have things dropped off at a shop in the nearby town -- no leaving by the road because methheads.


Quote
Negatives of a country life:
- The work never, never, never ends -- there's always a tree down or something else that needs doing, and often this costs in terms of both money and time.  If you cannot do things like cut up a 100-year old oak tree or take care of a deer that's died (or been shot and beheaded) on your property, you may end up paying someone to do those tasks. 


All true. If you can't do those things yourself, rural life may not be for you. The elderly here can call on neighbors, but I don't think an ablebodied newcomer would get the same level of help. You also need to be ready to fight fires (grass and forest). Neighbors generally will help with this, regardless of whether you're a newcomer, out of self-preservation. Usually there are fire departments, and we have a good one, actually, and they're paid, not volunteer. But it takes them time to travel the distances, and if it's a grass or forest fire, a truck won't help if the hoses won't reach.


Quote

- "Running errands" often means a lengthy trip into town OR buying from a limited number of stores nearby . . . you can plan for your groceries, etc. and avoid extra trips, but it also means you have to drive farther when you're sick and need to see the doctor or other such errands.  No matter how good you are at planning, you will be on the road more often than you expect, and that costs money. 





For sickness, yes, but for errands, groceries, and that sort of thing, a pantry fixes the problem. I don't run unplanned errands. If I run out of something (not all that common), we eat a different meal or prepare the meal without the missing item. It seems like a giant pain to do the planning that this takes, but once it becomes a habit, life is actually much easier. I spend much less time thinking about and shopping for food than most people I know because I do it all at once, a week or two at a time (usually a week because I've gotten used to milk in my coffee again). It's more efficient that way. If I miss a planned grocery shop, as happened two weeks ago because the weekend filled up with work, I don't grocery shop that week and we eat from the pantry, which saves even more time. (Downside: I drink black coffee.)


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- You don't have access to a wide variety of restaurants and entertainment.  This is both good and bad:  You won't be able to run out and get a sandwich for lunch, which means you won't spend . . . but sometimes cooking at home does become tedious, and going out is more of a stretch.   


Yep. Entertainment is the antique tractor parade on the Fourth of July. Actually, those are sort of fun. As are high school football games. I definitely don't go out for lunch when I work from home -- much more work than cooking!


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- Your access to money-saving places like libraries and discount stores is limited -- or, more accurately, the drive is a hassle. 





This is rapidly becoming less of an issue. Rural libraries are really ramping up the online databases and downloadable ebooks and audiobooks. Cheaper for them and easier for patrons as the rural broadband push expands, so it's a win-win. Also, I don't know if it's true everywhere, but I find the prices at the discount stores in the city (Costco in one direction, Aldis in another) aren't as good as the local WalMart and Sav-a-Lot ( local is relative, of course, but 10 miles as opposed to 40-45). I've even been surprised at how much higher prices at the WalMart in the city where I work are; my guess is that higher wages there mean that the population will/can support higher prices.


Quote
- When you need something done that is beyond your capability -- say, plumbing or roofing -- you'll have few options as to whom you're going to hire.  And sometimes you have to pay extra for them to come to you. 





Fewer options, yes. But in building our home, we did comparison shop, and the local options were always much, much cheaper than the ones in nearby cities. Again, I think it's the prevailing wages in the area and what prices they will support. We did have to pay travel for a concrete pumper (not the concrete itself or the mixer truck), but that's getting pretty specialized. We hired that, a crew that does poured walls ( from a city, and not the nearest one, but they don't add on for travel because they always travel -- they're equally expensive for everyone!). The local concrete was much cheaper than the one recommended by the wall people (and the local met their specs). We hired local septic installers and drywall hangers for prices our friends find amazing.


If you're truly an outsider, you may pay a markup, though. That's a real issue for people trying to relocate to rural areas for the first time. My husband's family has been here for generations, so we don't have that problem.


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- Do not assume that city services like trash pick up or water will be available to you.  You may end up paying for trash service (or hauling your own trash to the dump), and you may have to dig a well.  Some services like cable TV may not be available everywhere.  You should check the quality of cell phone service too.


Absolutely. We can't get cable here at all. Too far off the road. Trash service is a matter of finding a private company or hauling to the landfill. (We pay a local company $54 quarterly.) We were able to get county (not city) water, but that's not a guarantee around here. There almost certainly won't be a sewer system in a rural area, so septic is a must. Cell phones, well, yes, sometimes they work.
Quote

- While your house may be cheaper, things like extra-long driveways may add to your cost. 
- Bike riding won't be as possible:  Narrow country roads may or may not be safe, distances may be daunting. 


The driveway issue is there. Paving is not required in most cases, though. We probably will eventually, but ours is pretty extreme.


Bike riding is a death wish here. Not possible, period. I've never seem anyone trying to bike to town from here, for good reason.


Quote

Living in the country is not cheaper than living in the suburbs, though you do spend in different places.


Here's where I disagree. It's radically cheaper unless you choose to try to reproduce a more suburban lifestyle in a rural area. That can't be done, but it's very possible to spend a lot of money trying. To do it cheaply, you have to accept the limitations. There are advantages that more than outweigh the limitations in my book, but I won't try to make the limitations go away, at least not by spending; I live with them instead, and I rearranged my life to allow for that in a number of ways because I knew this was important to me. Would I like to see good live performances of Shakespeare? Sure. Will I spend for travel, hotel, etc. to make it happen? No, I moved away from that when I left the city. The BBC has good Shakespeare performances to download for free, and I can do that here. It's enough. I don't have to have the best of all the possible worlds. We picked the world with the best overall set of circumstances for us, and now we make the best of that world. Sounds like you did the same, and when your circumstances change, you'll do it again.

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2014, 07:46:43 AM »
I think the hardest thing for me would be being so reliant on a car versus a bike or walking if I was in a truly rural area.

My ideal retirement spot would be a lightly zoned residential area or small town with large plots for homesteading, but the streets still bikeable without it being 50mph two lane death wish roads.

I like having privacy but I don't think a truly rural lifestyle is for me.

reginna

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2014, 08:02:42 AM »
I know there are always a minimum of two sides but not hearing or seeing your neighbors is priceless!!

Jamesqf

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2014, 09:56:34 AM »
I know there are always a minimum of two sides but not hearing or seeing your neighbors is priceless!!

Actually knowing your neighbors is worth a good bit, too.  And knowing that you can call on them to feed your critters if you can't make it home, or pick up a few things to save you a run to the store, or just generally lend a hand whenever - and vice versa, of course.

Threshkin

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2014, 10:00:11 AM »
Most people consider where I live now rural...a town of ~2500, 30 minutes from two cities (populations 265k and 420k). However I grew up much more rural; no town, the closest one with a post office has about 1200), graduated in a class of 40, etc

You have got me beat.  My HS graduating class was 74 people.  But it did take three towns put together to get there. 

mbl

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2014, 11:36:09 AM »
We've lived about 30 miles out from Rochester, NY for almost 25 years.
I was born and raised in NYC and DH comes from a smaller upstate NY city.

Anyway,  we have a number of acres and a few neighbors on our road but we're completely surrounded by farm land and forest.
We built this 1100 sq foot ranch house and finished the basement and added a 2nd bathroom as we went along.  It was fine for us and two kids(the horses had to stay outside though).

We absolutely love it here and plan on staying.
Our 2 kids grew up having the run of hundreds of acres of land and a few neighbor kids to enjoy it with.
The school district is small(graduating classes about 70 kids) but was great as far as teachers and quality of education.

We heat with wood that we cut ourselves and save quite a bit over using the propane(no natural gas out here) furnace.  Almost all  of the 7 houses on our road use wood to heat.
We don't have internet as there isn't any broadband out here.  I do stuff at work during lunch and at the library on weekends.

We can do just about whatever we want on our land.    Think Burning Man party every summer.   Fireworks,  dirt bike racing and our own ice skating "rink"(country style).
DH tamed everything and planted fruit trees, evergreens(we have a small Christmas tree farm),  and all sorts of other trees.
He also has been growing hops for his beer brewing.   This is our 4th year and we've got quite the hop yield going.

We love the privacy,  the quiet,  the few neighbors we do have are wonderful,  the wild life,  my extensive laundry line system,   our bocce courtyard,    our well and public water(water is cheap here in NY as we have an abundance of it),  the clean air,  the sense of coming home to a much better place than the urban setting where I work...and the list goes on.

MrsPete reminded me of something else.  It is true that shopping and everything is at least 12 miles away.
I do all errands on my home from work so usually don't make extra trips on the weekends.
You become very organized regarding logistics.
Also, bike riding is great out here.  It's a very flat part of the state with loamy soil all around.  Bike rides up to Lake Ontario are great.  Very quiet and flat country roads.



« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 11:40:07 AM by mbl »

Frankies Girl

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2014, 01:50:34 PM »
Replying to follow this thread as it definitely is of interest to me.

I grew up in a suburb of a small town (under 20K when I lived there). The burb I lived in however was two streets, about 30 houses total, and there was nothing but farmland bordering it past a certain point.

I would love to eventually get about 3-5 acres and have fruit trees, a garden, some chickens and maybe horses. And maybe a small stocked pond. I have some basic experience with livestock and gardening (owned horses for most of my teen years, but kept on a friend's farm and always liked growing things small scale), but I'll definitely have a steep learning curve if we do decide to do it.

Most of the responses haven't really surprised me, tho. So I guess that's good.




Rural

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2014, 02:04:18 PM »
I know there are always a minimum of two sides but not hearing or seeing your neighbors is priceless!!

Actually knowing your neighbors is worth a good bit, too.  And knowing that you can call on them to feed your critters if you can't make it home, or pick up a few things to save you a run to the store, or just generally lend a hand whenever - and vice versa, of course.


Good neighbors are priceless. You do have to know the neighbors out here, and it pays to be civil even to the bad ones. I'm grateful that our nearest set are all good ones, and that almost all of the others are, too.

senecando

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2014, 02:28:43 PM »
Commenting to follow too.

PMG

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2014, 02:48:32 PM »
I live in the Appalachian mountains.  It's about a two hour drive to the interstate or a sizable city.

I live in the county seat currently (moving to the back end of nowhere in a few months).  I live within city limits, at the top of a hollow.  I have three tall hemlock trees on the front and side of my house facing the street, hiding me away from everyone.  I never close my curtains.  I never lock my door.  We do have a drug problem and crime rates to compete with large cities, but I have very little worth stealing.

There are very few job opportunities here.  The local economy is coal based and there is not much coal moving right now.  People move away every week.  My current job contract ends in September and I am going back to school at the local college.  I chose to stay here because I love it, but also because of the low cost of living.  I should be able to finish school without debt.  After that, who knows?

I often walk a mile to the center of town to the post office and library but I couldn't live here without a car.  The hills, coal traffic and poorly maintained roads and distance to neccessities make bikes look like a death trap.

We have four grocery stores and a (not super) walmart. We have a Goodys, a Goodwill, a shoe store, an op shop and several dollar stores.  The pawn shops and little stores come and go.  I try to do as much of my shopping as I can at the locally owned grocery, but they don't carry much of a selection, so I end up at the chain store more often.  I usually start my shopping at Big Lots.  They have more odd or organic items than anywhere else.  I get the basics there and the fresh stuff where I can.

I was searching for barley one time at the local store, "It's a grain.. like rice, or oats...it's probably in a box.." the guy stocking got another clerk, who got the manager who wondered if I was making beer.  Nope, I just want to make soup! 

I moved here 7 years ago.  Best thing I've ever done.  I've learned and grown so much.  No coffee shops?  I make my own fancy drinks.  No fun restaurants.  I try new recipes.  No good clothing stores. I make my own.  I've raised a garden the past couple years.  I am not very good at it!  But I've managed to not kill a few plants.  Still using up pumpkin from last summer.

I had chickens for a little while.  That ended sadly. 

Twice a year my friends and I go to Knoxville to go shopping.  We all pitch in for gas, get lunch together and make a day of it.  I always have a list on my iPod of things to shop for when I am out of town.  I especially like to stock up on certain organic options. 

I use Amazon fairly often, but I try to buy locally as much as I can.  I stopped shopping at Walmart about 2 1/2 years ago.  Partly out of interest in not supporting their business practices (are the other dollar stores any better?  probably not), but also because I kept buying crap!  I'd go for three things and come out with ten.  Silliness.  It's a small town and my social life took a hit when I stopped shopping Walmart!  No more running into friends and making plans! ;-)

Living here has made me a speed shopper.  I used to spend hours at the mall looking through clearance racks and buying things I never wore.  Last week I had a business trip to West Viriginia, I passed a JC Penney's... I needed a new bra and had an extra 20 minutes.  I was in and out of the store with time to spare. 

Perhaps living here has helped me learn to identify my needs from my wants. 


edited to add:  My brother came to visit and wanted alcohol... I told him he would have to be happy with what I had as there was no way I was driving 25 miles for beer.



« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 02:55:43 PM by PMG »

Milspecstache

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2014, 03:06:56 PM »
I am 30miles from the city but love my little farm.  I can't see any neighbors so the privacy is amazing.  Tried urban areas but couldn't handle it longterm.

Do you have a real farm or are you a 'homesteader' type farm?  We don't sell anything off our land (well, we do trade eggs/give away extra produce with others in our area that help with projects).

Has your farm income and/or the reduction in costs associated with your farm helped in moving towards FI?  Do you have a job in the city and commute or do you work in the local area (or maybe you are retired!!!)?

I'm like you and we only hobby-farm.  At one point I was raising all of my own meat but we have scaled back recently as we change some things up.  Hope to eventually supply both all of our vegetables and meat.  I commute and work in the city but should be able to retire in 6 years.  I have never made money off of our farm (other than the savings that come from growing your own healthy food).

Really worked hard the last few years to plant add'l fruit trees, bushes, and vines.

Would love to do some add'l farming via aquaponics as that would provide fish and veggies.

kelly1mm

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2014, 03:30:11 PM »
We live in a rural area about 25 miles from 2 "cities".  My husband now works from home/travels and I work in one of the cities.  The cost of living is ridiculously low.  Although urban areas can be great for saving/making money, the rural life also really lends itself to mustachianism.  We grow organic vegetables and fruit and raise pigs and chickens.  We are taking some time off right now, but usually make extra money selling at the local farmer's market.  Our small town has an excellent library and pool that we can bike to.  Also, there are many orchards and pretty lakes that make for cheap weekend fun.  Our lack of any decent restaurant keeps us from eating out too often.  We are close to our neighbors and often barter farm related items and work with them.  Living on a farm really encourages an outdoor lifestyle.  When the weather is nice, we stay outside until dark and even eat outside.  I feel so lucky to be raising our family here.

Love this post!  LOL'd on the " Our lack of any decent restaurant keeps us from eating out too often." comment!  We also spend MUCH more time outside than we did in the burbs.  One of my favorite activities is cutting/splitting wood. Very zen like to me.

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2014, 03:48:52 PM »
I think the hardest thing for me would be being so reliant on a car versus a bike or walking if I was in a truly rural area.

My ideal retirement spot would be a lightly zoned residential area or small town with large plots for homesteading, but the streets still bikeable without it being 50mph two lane death wish roads.

I like having privacy but I don't think a truly rural lifestyle is for me.

me too. almost everything you guys are describing sounds amazing, but the transportation thing is what gets me. I just don't like to drive. I'm not a good driver, and although I love my car I just notice a difference in my mood/overall wellbeing on days I have to drive a lot vs. times when I go 3 days without driving.

I think my ideal is somewhere like where I went to grad school... a small town (well, small compared to the size of the school, which is one of the biggest), surrounded by farms and awesome state forests. you can bike downtown to run your errands, or take your car to the state forest and be trail running in 10 minutes. pretty much nirvana (for me). plus since it's a huge school there's a decent selection in terms of concerts and other entertainment, if you're into that (and cool free stuff too).

eil

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2014, 03:56:37 PM »
Most people consider where I live now rural...a town of ~2500, 30 minutes from two cities (populations 265k and 420k). However I grew up much more rural; no town, the closest one with a post office has about 1200), graduated in a class of 40, etc

You have got me beat.  My HS graduating class was 74 people.  But it did take three towns put together to get there.

I can top those. My graduating class numbered 25. (20 girls, 5 boys, if you can believe that.) I had a couple of good friends growing up but being a nerd out in the sticks means that I don't often look back on my childhood with fond memories.

While I can definitely see the appeal of retiring in the countryside, I wouldn't wish the rural lifestyle on anyone's children. I feel like I missed out on a lot of opportunities when I was growing up with the nearest "city" being an hour's drive away. Sure, as a younger kid it was awesome to spend the whole day traipsing through the woods and playing pirates with neighbors. But as I got older, I wanted to get into more interesting stuff like computers and sci-fi. Unfortunately, the highlight of most summer weeks for me was spending the day mowing our gigantic yard on a riding lawn mower. (Thank goodness the Internet came along when it did.)

The wife and I live in the suburbs now. If my kids ever decide they want to take up an interest in something random (karate, gourmet cooking, unmanned aerial drones), chances are there's a group for it within bicycle-riding distance or a 15-minute drive at worst. It would be nice to have a bit of space but I think the closest I will ever get to "rural" is building a nice house on a plot of land that used to be a corn field... right next to a newly-built megaburb with all the city amenities just a 5-minute bicycle ride away.

kelly1mm

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2014, 04:02:31 PM »
ROCKSINMY HEAD WROTE"
me too. almost everything you guys are describing sounds amazing, but the transportation thing is what gets me. I just don't like to drive. I'm not a good driver, and although I love my car I just notice a difference in my mood/overall wellbeing on days I have to drive a lot vs. times when I go 3 days without driving.

I think my ideal is somewhere like where I went to grad school... a small town (well, small compared to the size of the school, which is one of the biggest), surrounded by farms and awesome state forests. you can bike downtown to run your errands, or take your car to the state forest and be trail running in 10 minutes. pretty much nirvana (for me). plus since it's a huge school there's a decent selection in terms of concerts and other entertainment, if you're into that (and cool free stuff too)."






While I certainly understand your point about driving, some of the above posters have described that while when they do drive, it is longer distances, they really do not drive too often.  I work from home.  I do drive 1 day a week to the 'city' 125 miles away (each way).  I also do all my shopping on this trip.  It is RARE that I drive any other day of the week.  I basically stay at the property.  My wife does drive about 8 miles each way to work as a school teacher.  During the school breaks though we basically leave the property once a week (wife will go with me to the 'city' when she is off work to visit/do a bit of shopping while in the city).  Lists get made and you just do a once a week (or every 2 weeks, or every month as described above) run for supplies.  If it is not an EMERGENCY, it just waits till the 'shopping' day.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 04:05:19 PM by kelly1mm »

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2014, 05:27:47 PM »
One nice thing about a small rural school is there would be a better chance of being a valedictorian.  You don't necessarily *have* to tell the job recruiter that your school only had 8 students :-p

Threshkin

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2014, 10:46:20 PM »
Most people consider where I live now rural...a town of ~2500, 30 minutes from two cities (populations 265k and 420k). However I grew up much more rural; no town, the closest one with a post office has about 1200), graduated in a class of 40, etc

You have got me beat.  My HS graduating class was 74 people.  But it did take three towns put together to get there.

I can top those. My graduating class numbered 25. (20 girls, 5 boys, if you can believe that.) I had a couple of good friends growing up but being a nerd out in the sticks means that I don't often look back on my childhood with fond memories.

While I can definitely see the appeal of retiring in the countryside, I wouldn't wish the rural lifestyle on anyone's children. I feel like I missed out on a lot of opportunities when I was growing up with the nearest "city" being an hour's drive away. Sure, as a younger kid it was awesome to spend the whole day traipsing through the woods and playing pirates with neighbors. But as I got older, I wanted to get into more interesting stuff like computers and sci-fi. Unfortunately, the highlight of most summer weeks for me was spending the day mowing our gigantic yard on a riding lawn mower. (Thank goodness the Internet came along when it did.)

The wife and I live in the suburbs now. If my kids ever decide they want to take up an interest in something random (karate, gourmet cooking, unmanned aerial drones), chances are there's a group for it within bicycle-riding distance or a 15-minute drive at worst. It would be nice to have a bit of space but I think the closest I will ever get to "rural" is building a nice house on a plot of land that used to be a corn field... right next to a newly-built megaburb with all the city amenities just a 5-minute bicycle ride away.

+1 Amen to that Eli.  For me the nearest pay phone, gas station or store was 8 miles away.  The closest kid within a year of my age was one mile away.  It was tough growing up having to get rides to do anything or visit anyone.  Riding a bike was tough because of all the New England hills.  If I went to my friend's house after school, I faced a 4 mile walk home afterwords.

My kids were raised in suburbia and it has a lot going for it in terms of proximity and activity choices.

Everyone is different and YMMV but im many cases the disadvantages of rural life outweigh the advantages.

Joel

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2014, 10:57:10 PM »
I grew up in a town of 7,500, and worked 4+ years in a town of ~300. I could not imagine not having a car. The closest reasonably priced grocery store as a kid was at least 20 miles away. It's definitely different living in a rural area compared to an urban area.

Rural

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2014, 03:45:35 AM »
I grew up as rural as I am living now. Miles to the home of anyone my age, more miles to any store, an hour each way on the school bus.


I wanted nothing more than to get away from that and into the city in my teens, and that's what I did for a while. By my mid-thirties, though, I was starting to remember the good things about what I'd left behind.


I moved back to the country knowing more or less what I was moving to (except bears, no bears where I grew up!) It makes me think that many of us may find we want different things at different stages of life.

MrsPete

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2014, 06:40:49 AM »
I've lived rural for the past year, after being in a big city for the previous 15 years. The easiest way to save money is that there's nothing to spend money on.
I agree that it's easy not to spend "impulse money" if going to the store or out to eat = an hour's drive.  And for a lot of people those impulse buys add up to a lot. 
Must depend on the rural area. When I go into the cities, I can't believe the high grocery prices. I've quit stopping for anything in the city associated with the college unless I'm looking for an "exotic" I can't get locally (couscous most recently).
It may vary from place to place, which means that a smart person will do some investigating before jumping into a new situation. 

Where I grew up, we had only one tiny Piggly Wiggly.  Limited selection, high prices.  People were going to buy because the other option was to drive an hour to reach another grocery store.  While we did that on a regular basis, we made more trips to the expensive, nearby Piggly Wiggly.  This was especially true in the days when my mom was dealing with five children and a not-always reliable car.  In contrast, where I live now, I have access to a dozen or more grocery stores, including Aldi's, Food Lion, Harris Teeter and Walmart.  Each of them has its own strong points, and since they're not far, I can use each for its strengths. 

As for services, the plumber /HVAC guy in my hometown is a perfect example.  If you need work done and need to hire someone, you're going to call H_____.  In his day, Grandaddy H____ was the only game in town.  Then Daddy H_____ took over.  Now H_____ who graduated high school with me is the kingpin.  They employ quality people, and they do quality work -- but you're going to pay for it!  That, or you're going to call someone from out of town, who will charge you a traveling fee . . . but you'd better not do that because, if you do, the next time you call the H____s, they'll make you wait.  Ditto for if you don't pay your bill on time.  The whole family lives together on old, old family land.  Their estate is comprised of a lovely old farm house and a couple new houses.  The entire estate is fronted by a beautiful lake, and you must cross a bridge to reach it.

I should've said yes when H_____ asked me to prom 25 years ago.   
Yes to the quiet, etc. but not to a lack of crime here -- we're in meth country . . .

For sickness, yes, but for errands, groceries, and that sort of thing, a pantry fixes the problem. I don't run unplanned errands. If I run out of something (not all that common), we eat a different meal or prepare the meal without the missing item.
Yikes, I'm glad not to be able to relate to meth country!

Yes, we've always been big pantry people, but it does seem there's always a need to go here or there -- it's not always food.  Kids activities, etc. seemed to keep us on the road all too often when we were in the country. 

Yes, I understand the "outsiders" issue.  My family has lived on this land as long as America has been America.  I'm kin to everyone in the county.  The graveyards are full of "my people".  But when we were first married, I saw that my husband was initially treated as an outsider -- 'til people realized he'd "married in", not moved in -- and then he was considered acceptable. 
I like having privacy but I don't think a truly rural lifestyle is for me.
Yeah, rural life isn't good or bad, but it is different -- and it exists on multiple levels.  You can be really out in the sticks, or you can be on 5-acres 20 minutes from town.  The right answer is to know yourself and choose wisely. 
I do all errands on my home from work so usually don't make extra trips on the weekends.
That brings up another topic:  The lack of jobs in rural America (of course, some people here are talking about retirement homes, so it isn't an issue).  My father, back when he was still working, was a professional.  No way he could've had a job where we lived, and his wasn't the type of work where one could hang out a shingle and be self-employed.  He was on the road 2+ hours a day for work. 

The ability to work from home is changing the face of rural America.  It opens up the possibility of living in the country, yet still having access to a variety of jobs. 
I would love to eventually get about 3-5 acres and have fruit trees, a garden, some chickens and maybe horses.
Fruit trees are a huge "bang for the buck".  They're not all that expensive to buy, they take little work, and -- after the first couple growing years -- you harvest so much good food!  And don't be caught up in the word "tree"; blueberry bushes are just as great as apple trees.  Definitely an excellent first-project for those who are new to the world of farming. 
My kids were raised in suburbia and it has a lot going for it in terms of proximity and activity choices.
That's why we're here now.  The kids.  I love the area where I grew up, but the school system did not prepare me for college.  My first year was ROUGH, and I realized that I had to step up or get out.  There's good and bad in the suburbs (and in other types of living arrangements too), but my kids are getting a better education that I had. 
« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 06:42:25 AM by MrsPete »

mrsggrowsveg

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2014, 07:05:54 AM »
We live in a rural area about 25 miles from 2 "cities".  My husband now works from home/travels and I work in one of the cities.  The cost of living is ridiculously low.  Although urban areas can be great for saving/making money, the rural life also really lends itself to mustachianism.  We grow organic vegetables and fruit and raise pigs and chickens.  We are taking some time off right now, but usually make extra money selling at the local farmer's market.  Our small town has an excellent library and pool that we can bike to.  Also, there are many orchards and pretty lakes that make for cheap weekend fun.  Our lack of any decent restaurant keeps us from eating out too often.  We are close to our neighbors and often barter farm related items and work with them.  Living on a farm really encourages an outdoor lifestyle.  When the weather is nice, we stay outside until dark and even eat outside.  I feel so lucky to be raising our family here.

Love this post!  LOL'd on the " Our lack of any decent restaurant keeps us from eating out too often." comment!  We also spend MUCH more time outside than we did in the burbs.  One of my favorite activities is cutting/splitting wood. Very zen like to me.

My husband loves splitting wood too!  It is one of his favorites.  Maybe I should try it some time.  Overall, living in a very peaceful beautiful place without traffic noise or city lights is very zen like.  The stars every night are incredible.

CanyonMan

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2014, 09:54:36 PM »
Good to know there are other rural mustachians out there!

I grew up in a small town, about 20,000 people. When I left it was closer to 60,000. We lived on the edge of the woods growing up, now there's another mile of houses before you hit USFS land.

These days I live 60 miles from the nearest town of 10,000 people, and 75 to the nearest "city" with about 80,000. It's been interesting trying to figure out how to mesh the mustachian idea of not using a car much when ANY service or store is a 125-150 mile round trip. Out here it's hard enough to have a sedan as the only vehicle, it really limits where we can get to, especially when weather rolls in and trashes the roads. Our cost of living on many things is below average, especially when compared to a city, but our gas, even with a efficient sedan, still gets expensive.

Any rural mustachians have advice on good cheap trucks? Don't want anything fancy, but a used 4x4 truck would open up a lot of the areas that make living out here worthwhile that just aren't accessible in a sedan.

ender

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2014, 10:12:52 PM »
Someday....

Jamesqf

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2014, 10:51:01 PM »
I grew up in a small town, about 20,000 people.

I guess it's all a matter of perspective, but it's real hard for me to think of 20,000 people as a small town.  Growing up, that was about the size of the 'big city' we might go to a few times a year.  And, if memory serves, about the biggest place I ever visited until after high school.  The real small town (where the school was) had about 1200 people IIRC, and we were a mile or two outside that.

Quote
Any rural mustachians have advice on good cheap trucks? Don't want anything fancy, but a used 4x4 truck would open up a lot of the areas that make living out here worthwhile that just aren't accessible in a sedan.

Mid-80s to mid-90s Toyota, with the 4 cylinder RE-22 engine.  (Don't have experience with the V6 engine.) They last pretty much forever (my '88 is still going strong), will go pretty much anywhere, haul a good bit of weight, and aren't too bad on gas (I get about 27 mpg average).  Earlier ones are pretty good too, if you can work with carbs to get them to pass smog checks (I couldn't), otherwise stick with EFI models.

Rural

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #40 on: April 12, 2014, 08:08:43 AM »
James' old Toyotas are a great idea. Another option (also hard to find, so you need options) is a diesel Isuzu Trooper. Check that it's 4WD; not all of them were.

kelly1mm

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #41 on: April 12, 2014, 12:57:29 PM »
James' old Toyotas are a great idea. Another option (also hard to find, so you need options) is a diesel Isuzu Trooper. Check that it's 4WD; not all of them were.

While not as good on gas, but with MUCH more capacity if you are doing a lot of hauling is a 1987-1996 Ford F series with the 4.9 inline 6.  With 4wd (and in 250 form) it is most commonly owned by farmers.  It is basically unstoppable in most any terrain and the engines are basically low RMP tractor motors with GOBS of torque that can go 300k miles.  Parts are CHEAP and anyone can work on it.

paddedhat

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2014, 09:27:11 AM »
I spent the last three decades in the rural mountains of the Northeast. Lots of fun interaction with both locals and move-ins.

I once sold one of my new homes to a great young city couple. During the walk-thru, she asks "what day do I put the garbage out front". I then have to explain that any day is fine, as long she remembers to drive to the end of the driveway, fetch the trash, and drive it fifteen minutes away, to the township dump, and be sure it's a Saturday morning, or you're gonna' be lonely.

The highest holy holiday we have is the first Monday after Thanksgiving. AKA, opening day of buck season. Don't count on getting anything productive done that day, since you may be the only human not sitting in the woods with a rifle on your lap.

Locals here tolerate move-ins way better than the locals in the New England states do. That said, if you have a "nails on the chalk board", or  "stand the hairs on the back of my neck", NYC accent, you are probably a few decades, and a lot of effort away from being "one of the boys". If you have an attitude, or don't pay the locals promptly, and in cash, well.....you're pretty well screwed.

The annual fair is serious business, and the demo. derby is right up there with Nascar.  Doesn't matter if your Rhubarb pie won a prize, or if if you took 1st place in the Mini-Van demo. You are definitely somebody.

There is an active Bald Eagle nest two blocks from our place, enough Whitetails in the area that they are often referred to as "forest rats", and twice in my life, my dog decided that nothing motivates your ass back into the house like a nose to nose meeting with a Black Bear in the yard.

There are more efficient ways of living, and as MMM rants, it's easy to get way too wrapped up in owning "Clown cars" and spending way to much for their care
and feeding, but in many ways it's dramatically cheaper, and far less stressful  that city life.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 09:30:17 AM by paddedhat »

paddedhat

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2014, 09:50:35 AM »
 
While not as good on gas, but with MUCH more capacity if you are doing a lot of hauling is a 1987-1996 Ford F series with the 4.9 inline 6.  With 4wd (and in 250 form) it is most commonly owned by farmers.  It is basically unstoppable in most any terrain and the engines are basically low RMP tractor motors with GOBS of torque that can go 300k miles.  Parts are CHEAP and anyone can work on it.


If you only use it as a tool, and not a commuter vehicle, there probably isn't a more practical, tougher, better priced used truck available in N.A.

 As a construction foreman, I once had a highly skilled, near genius level intelligence, very drug addicted electrician working for me. He was perpetually down on his luck, and teetering on the edge of homelessness, For transportation he paid a few hundred bucks for a very used F150 with the straight six. He then drove it for tens of thousands of miles without checking or changing the oil. When it stopped, he took a screwdriver and dug what he described as, "sludge that was exactly like black dog shit" out of the drain plug, until he couldn't get any more out. He then refilled the crankcase with kerosene and brought it up to operating temp. After draining it, he started a regiment of repeating this process with ever increasing percentages of cheap motor oil in the mix. After eight rounds, the oil was clean enough, and the motor was running great. I talked to him several years later, and he was still driving the same truck, with an additional 75K trouble free miles. A decade ago, or more, it was pretty common to see those motors running for 300K without issue, or find one powering everything from a sawmill to a water pump, with insane hours on them.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 09:52:47 AM by paddedhat »

RetiredAt63

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2014, 11:30:32 AM »
Dumps - here those are in "cottage country".  At my parents' cottage, we could not use the dump that was 2 km away because it was a different township, we drove over 30 km.  There are always black bears at the dump my sister uses.

I am in farm country, we don't have many deer, but we sure do have coyotes (they are all the way to the Atlantic now, very successful invasive species).  We have livestock guard dogs, guard donkeys, and guard llamas because of the coyotes.  Also eagles, hawks, owls, turkey vultures, wild turkeys, Canada and Snow geese during migratory season, etc. etc.  And we do have garbage pickup and recycling once a week, which is a lot better than the City of Ottawa manages  ;-)

Country fairs are wonderful - in my general area I know of one that had a demolition derby with combines instead of cars.  One had Blue Rodeo as the headliner. One has the Eastern Alpaca judging.  Lots going on  ;-)

Generally the COL is lower than the city.  Downside, some sort of car is a necessity.  Upside is most cars around here are chosen for practicality, not ostentation.  Even the guys at my car dealership nod understandingly when I say I won't go to a Mazda 2 from my Mazda3 hatchback because it won't hold pallets. 

I once sold one of my new homes to a great young city couple. During the walk-thru, she asks "what day do I put the garbage out front". I then have to explain that any day is fine, as long she remembers to drive to the end of the driveway, fetch the trash, and drive it fifteen minutes away, to the township dump, and be sure it's a Saturday morning, or you're gonna' be lonely.

The annual fair is serious business, and the demo. derby is right up there with Nascar.  Doesn't matter if your Rhubarb pie won a prize, or if if you took 1st place in the Mini-Van demo. You are definitely somebody.

There is an active Bald Eagle nest two blocks from our place, enough Whitetails in the area that they are often referred to as "forest rats", and twice in my life, my dog decided that nothing motivates your ass back into the house like a nose to nose meeting with a Black Bear in the yard.

There are more efficient ways of living, and as MMM rants, it's easy to get way too wrapped up in owning "Clown cars" and spending way to much for their care
and feeding, but in many ways it's dramatically cheaper, and far less stressful  that city life.

kelly1mm

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #45 on: April 13, 2014, 05:17:48 PM »

While not as good on gas, but with MUCH more capacity if you are doing a lot of hauling is a 1987-1996 Ford F series with the 4.9 inline 6.  With 4wd (and in 250 form) it is most commonly owned by farmers.  It is basically unstoppable in most any terrain and the engines are basically low RMP tractor motors with GOBS of torque that can go 300k miles.  Parts are CHEAP and anyone can work on it.


If you only use it as a tool, and not a commuter vehicle, there probably isn't a more practical, tougher, better priced used truck available in N.A.

 As a construction foreman, I once had a highly skilled, near genius level intelligence, very drug addicted electrician working for me. He was perpetually down on his luck, and teetering on the edge of homelessness, For transportation he paid a few hundred bucks for a very used F150 with the straight six. He then drove it for tens of thousands of miles without checking or changing the oil. When it stopped, he took a screwdriver and dug what he described as, "sludge that was exactly like black dog shit" out of the drain plug, until he couldn't get any more out. He then refilled the crankcase with kerosene and brought it up to operating temp. After draining it, he started a regiment of repeating this process with ever increasing percentages of cheap motor oil in the mix. After eight rounds, the oil was clean enough, and the motor was running great. I talked to him several years later, and he was still driving the same truck, with an additional 75K trouble free miles. A decade ago, or more, it was pretty common to see those motors running for 300K without issue, or find one powering everything from a sawmill to a water pump, with insane hours on them.

Agreed - definitely not a commuter vehicle.  But SO very reliable and SO very easy to work on and SO much more capacity than a Toyota.  Much cheaper than the Toyota to buy, at least that has bee my experience.  A F250 4x4 with the straight 6 and a scooter/prius would be ideal if you needed to haul and commute.

The thing about trucks, like all tools, is when you NEED a certain capability, using a lesser tool is just asking for trouble.  I used my f 250 about 80% for wood hauling and 20% for Lowe's runs.  Could have used a Toyota for about 75% of that, but the other 25% of the time I NEEDED the f-250 - mainly for the payload capacity.  In 3 years I only put 4000 miles total on the truck.  Then I sold it for $20 more than the $700 I bought it for.  Prices were (I am not making this up) based on the metal value at the time!

Jamesqf

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #46 on: April 14, 2014, 12:47:15 PM »
Agreed - definitely not a commuter vehicle.  But SO very reliable and SO very easy to work on and SO much more capacity than a Toyota.  Much cheaper than the Toyota to buy, at least that has bee my experience.  A F250 4x4 with the straight 6 and a scooter/prius would be ideal if you needed to haul and commute.

I think I could argue about the capacity bit.  At least when I go to get wood with my F-150 owning friends, I come back with more than they do.  That could be down to their wussiness about loading heavy, lthough.  (Hey, the front wheels are still on the ground, OK?)  If you're planning on pulling fairly heavy trailers, especially up/down grades, the Ford would be a better choice.

I thought, though, that the main reason (for whoever originally asked) was to get places not accessible to a normal 2WD vehicle.  I think the Toyota wins there, due to better mpg and being a bit narrower.

On price, hereabouts 85-95 4WD Toyotas seem to run in the $2.5-4K range (unless they've been converted into 'rock crawlers', which ups the price).  They hold their value pretty well, too.  And the price premium over similar vintage Fords might say something :-)

MrsPete

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #47 on: April 14, 2014, 07:57:50 PM »
I am not as rural as you guys are talking about, but one thing I have noticed after we moved "out to the country" is that the house gets messier!  Does anyone else notice that if you moved from suburbia to the country?

We are only on two acres 4-5miles from city limits, but it is the right fit for our needs (activities, people, job, but out of town so less regulated on animals, etc.).
That's very true. 
The highest holy holiday we have is the first Monday after Thanksgiving. AKA, opening day of buck season. Don't count on getting anything productive done that day, since you may be the only human not sitting in the woods with a rifle on your lap.
Another sacred time of year:  Haymaking time.  The phrase, "Make hay while the sun shines" is real.  When I was in school, farm boys were allowed excused absences during haymaking.
The thing about trucks, like all tools, is when you NEED a certain capability, using a lesser tool is just asking for trouble.
You could generalize this thought to non-trucks for country living too:  If you live 20 miles + to the nearest grocery store (or whatever), you need to know that you have reliable transportation.  In the city you might catch a bus.  If your car breaks down, you might walk home or call a friend who's only a few miles away.  For country dwellers, if your car breaks down, you might be walking a loooong way.  Do expect to spend more on transportation, if you live in the country. 

DollarBill

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #48 on: April 14, 2014, 08:33:07 PM »
This is a very interesting post. I tend to think for the average person we all live the same life style. If you live in rural area you might pay less in property taxes but own more land. Pay more for groceries but pay less for insurance. If someone makes more money they buy more name band items. The key is to minimizes the cost and maximize the savings. It can be done anywhere.

Rural

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Re: Anyone else live and work in a rural (meaning REALLY rural) area?
« Reply #49 on: April 15, 2014, 07:13:34 PM »

The highest holy holiday we have is the first Monday after Thanksgiving. AKA, opening day of buck season. Don't count on getting anything productive done that day, since you may be the only human not sitting in the woods with a rifle on your lap.
Quote from: MrsPete

Another sacred time of year:  Haymaking time.  The phrase, "Make hay while the sun shines" is real.  When I was in school, farm boys were allowed excused absences during haymaking.


Here it's not so much a time of year (though the first day of buck season...) but every week. On Wednesday afternoons, all businesses and government offices in the county seat are closed to let the farmers with jobs in town have a half-day midweek to catch up on chores and still get to Wednesday night church.

Edited for quote tags
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 03:29:35 AM by Rural »