Author Topic: Anyone else's car battery need jumped in the last month?  (Read 4723 times)

Monkey Uncle

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Re: Anyone else's car battery need jumped in the last month?
« Reply #50 on: April 16, 2020, 05:41:49 PM »
My truck battery needed at boost on Tuesday. I've been commuting by bike so driving the truck only about once a week. It could be the original battery from 10 years ago when I got the truck. Anyway it didn't need much of a boost and after a 25min drive it was starting again solidly. Hopefully it was just a one off thing. I'll only be driving one day a week ~1hr total for the foreseeable future.

If it's really a 10 year old battery, I'd just go ahead and replace it anyway.  I've had old batteries die on me with no warning.  They seemed fine, and then suddenly they were so dead they could not be jumped.

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Re: Anyone else's car battery need jumped in the last month?
« Reply #51 on: April 16, 2020, 05:46:26 PM »
If it's really a 10 year old battery, I'd just go ahead and replace it anyway.  I've had old batteries die on me with no warning.  They seemed fine, and then suddenly they were so dead they could not be jumped.

I'm only driving locally and nothing mission critical so I'll see how it goes. It's sat since I drove it last on Tuesday. I'll use it tomorrow for a grocery run. If it becomes an issue I'll get both the battery and alternator checked out.

I get the battery tested twice a year when I do my oil changes and it's always good. It may not be the original battery. My memory for a detail like that is not 100%, but do recall thinking that battery just keeps going and going and going. This is the only starting problem I can remember ever having. Again that might not be 100% accurate, but it's certainly a rare event.

cangelosibrown

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Re: Anyone else's car battery need jumped in the last month?
« Reply #52 on: April 17, 2020, 05:25:07 PM »
I left a dome light on and completely drained my battery a few weeks ago. Jumped it (from absolutely dead) drove 40 minutes or so, then didn't drive for another week... and had it jump it again (this time it almost started).

Lucky for me I have a battery pack/jump starter device. Even with a totally dead battery it starts up fine (though doing that completely drained the battery pack). Turns jumping the car into a 30 second task, and makes me feel so much better knowing I can do it anywhere, any time.

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Re: Anyone else's car battery need jumped in the last month?
« Reply #53 on: April 18, 2020, 04:26:45 PM »
I left a dome light on and completely drained my battery a few weeks ago. Jumped it (from absolutely dead) drove 40 minutes or so, then didn't drive for another week... and had it jump it again (this time it almost started).

Lucky for me I have a battery pack/jump starter device. Even with a totally dead battery it starts up fine (though doing that completely drained the battery pack). Turns jumping the car into a 30 second task, and makes me feel so much better knowing I can do it anywhere, any time.

Just be aware that an overnight drain that takes a battery down to a couple of volts significantly decreases the overall battery life (deep discharge event), and if you don't carefully recharge it to '100%', that too will shorten overall life. Also be careful if you have to jump-start too often; there is risk of vehicle electronics damage and your alternator definitely isn't designed to endure repeated jump starts without a healthy battery in-circuit.

Just Joe

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Re: Anyone else's car battery need jumped in the last month?
« Reply #54 on: April 24, 2020, 12:00:05 AM »
Most automobile batteries have a life of ~5 years - hot conditions can shorten that pretty quickly.  Mercedes/BMW (likely not an issue for this group) tend have a pretty heavy battery draw even when the key is off - each car is a little different.  Obviously the closer you are to the end of the battery's life the quicker it can lose a charge when not being used.

Battery Tender makes a beautiful little device for such an occassion - I have one on both of our cars and I keep one on my tractor when not in use - https://smile.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-Junior-Automatic-Charger/dp/B000CITK8S/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?ie=UTF8&aaxitk=8KAf8sKRGVTVOG8wG6YUmQ&hsa_cr_id=7904714420101&ref_=sb_s_sparkle

For $20 or so you can buy a solar panel that plugs into the cigarette lighter socket in your car and keeps the battery up. Note that some lighter ports are electrically disconnected when the ignition is switched off. You can also connect the solar panel to the battery directly with alligator clips.

BlueMR2

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Re: Anyone else's car battery need jumped in the last month?
« Reply #55 on: April 26, 2020, 09:54:43 AM »
Just be aware that an overnight drain that takes a battery down to a couple of volts significantly decreases the overall battery life (deep discharge event), and if you don't carefully recharge it to '100%', that too will shorten overall life. Also be careful if you have to jump-start too often; there is risk of vehicle electronics damage and your alternator definitely isn't designed to endure repeated jump starts without a healthy battery in-circuit.

I can give a somewhat recent example of that.  Last Summer, I came out of work to a car that wouldn't start and had no lights whatsoever.  Grabbed my meter.  -0.02 volts.  Confirmed with a second meter.  Had the AAA battery guy come out...  Turns out the brake pedal light switch broke, and my brake lights stayed on all day completely discharging the battery (7.5 amp draw).  He jump started it and it charged for a bit, confirmed it had enough charge to restart, then I went on my way (straight to the shop).  I noted that the alternator was whining the whole drive, so I know it was really stressed while charging that battery.  I pulled the negative cable at the shop and left them keys & note in the drop box.  They replaced the broken switch at the shop, AND gave me a new alternator as the one on the car totally seized up while they were driving the car into the bay!  Surprisingly the battery still tested good (and it was around 10 years old at this point too!).  So, kept driving it with that one and figured I'd replace if it gave me any warning signs such as slow cranking.  Well, it was perfectly fine right up until it wasn't...  Cranked just like normal every day until I came out of work on one fine afternoon and the car *barely* turned over.  Can't believe it actually caught and fired up.  Drove it straight to the shop and was careful not to stall it as it was not going to start again with that battery!

Gin1984

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Re: Anyone else's car battery need jumped in the last month?
« Reply #56 on: April 26, 2020, 10:38:10 AM »
Nope. My truck has dual AGM batteries with a solar charge controller and a 100w panel on the roof. :)

My other car is an EV so it's generally plugged in anyway.

I haven't bought gas since Jan 1, though!
@JLee can you elaborate on this.  I've never heard of a solar charge controller or a panel on a car.

MilesTeg

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Re: Anyone else's car battery need jumped in the last month?
« Reply #57 on: April 26, 2020, 11:53:58 AM »
Drove our car for the first time in 23 days (‘06 Civic).  Started up fine but it did seem a little sluggish on turnover. Drove it about 15 minutes taking the long way to the store.  Should probably put it on schedule to drive every 2 weeks or so.

*also probably didn’t help that it was 28ºF (-2ºC) outside.

15 minutes won't charge the battery much.

If you frequently leave your car sitting for weeks it really is an investment worth every dollar to get a battery maintainer. A well maintained battery can last 2-3 times that of one that isn't kept at near full charge all the time and jump starts do cumulative damage.

Even if you drive your car weekly but only for a few minutes you are putting a big net drain on the battery and it's probably sitting well below max charge most iof the time which is really bad. My daily driver only goes 3 miles/12 minutes each way and the battery needs a good topping off with a long drive or a charger. The last time I hooked up a charger after normal short drive use for a couple weeks the battery was only at 50%
« Last Edit: April 27, 2020, 09:33:48 AM by MilesTeg »

JLee

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Re: Anyone else's car battery need jumped in the last month?
« Reply #58 on: April 27, 2020, 08:23:19 AM »
Nope. My truck has dual AGM batteries with a solar charge controller and a 100w panel on the roof. :)

My other car is an EV so it's generally plugged in anyway.

I haven't bought gas since Jan 1, though!
@JLee can you elaborate on this.  I've never heard of a solar charge controller or a panel on a car.

I built it to go places way off the grid and didn't want to have a dead battery 100 miles from civilization, so I have redundant batteries and solar to keep them topped up.  It's convenient now because I never have to worry about battery health :) pic  If I'm driving every day it's not necessary, but if I park / camp somewhere for a while it's nice to have the peace of mind that the fridge won't kill my only battery and leave me stranded. This is an old picture but you can see the solar panel hardmounted to the roof. 

There are a few little panels out there that just plug into cigarette lighters but I am not sure how well they work in practice.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2020, 08:24:57 AM by JLee »

jinga nation

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Re: Anyone else's car battery need jumped in the last month?
« Reply #59 on: April 27, 2020, 09:09:52 AM »
jumped my RAV4 (with a 2 year old battery) on Saturday. Hadn't been driven in 4 weeks, except one for a 3 mile round trip to the supermarket. Our Honda hybrid can't jump another car (per manufacturer).
a neighbor drove over his car, I connected the cables, and jumped it. drove around for 15 minutes. been turning it on for 5 minutes every day and a couple of light revs.
at this point, the gas is 6 weeks old, need to burn off about 5 gallons then get fresh gas. could feel sluggish acceleration and rough idle.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2020, 09:11:34 AM by jinga nation »

JLee

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Re: Anyone else's car battery need jumped in the last month?
« Reply #60 on: April 27, 2020, 09:14:09 AM »
jumped my RAV4 (with a 2 year old battery) on Saturday. Hadn't been driven in 4 weeks, except one for a 3 mile round trip to the supermarket. Our Honda hybrid can't jump another car (per manufacturer).
a neighbor drove over his car, I connected the cables, and jumped it. drove around for 15 minutes. been turning it on for 5 minutes every day and a couple of light revs.
at this point, the gas is 6 weeks old, need to burn off about 5 gallons then get fresh gas. could feel sluggish acceleration and rough idle.

I doubt the gas is the problem at 6 weeks. Maybe ECU re-learning due to dead battery?

Monkey Uncle

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Re: Anyone else's car battery need jumped in the last month?
« Reply #61 on: April 27, 2020, 09:34:54 AM »
jumped my RAV4 (with a 2 year old battery) on Saturday. Hadn't been driven in 4 weeks, except one for a 3 mile round trip to the supermarket. Our Honda hybrid can't jump another car (per manufacturer).
a neighbor drove over his car, I connected the cables, and jumped it. drove around for 15 minutes. been turning it on for 5 minutes every day and a couple of light revs.
at this point, the gas is 6 weeks old, need to burn off about 5 gallons then get fresh gas. could feel sluggish acceleration and rough idle.

I doubt the gas is the problem at 6 weeks. Maybe ECU re-learning due to dead battery?

Yeah, I used to have an old pickup with dual tanks that I didn't drive much.  Gas would sit in the tanks for months without causing a problem.

MilesTeg

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Re: Anyone else's car battery need jumped in the last month?
« Reply #62 on: April 27, 2020, 09:46:45 AM »
jumped my RAV4 (with a 2 year old battery) on Saturday. Hadn't been driven in 4 weeks, except one for a 3 mile round trip to the supermarket. Our Honda hybrid can't jump another car (per manufacturer).
a neighbor drove over his car, I connected the cables, and jumped it. drove around for 15 minutes. been turning it on for 5 minutes every day and a couple of light revs.
at this point, the gas is 6 weeks old, need to burn off about 5 gallons then get fresh gas. could feel sluggish acceleration and rough idle.

5 minutes of runtime won't even replenish the energy used to start the car! Also a 5 minute run won't get anything up to temp, so you're building up condensation in the crank case and exhaust. This creates a sludge (water/oil mix) and causes corrosion.

The absolute best, cheapest, most reliable thing to do is get a battery maintainer (decent ones can be had very cheaply: $20-30). Plug in or solar.

If you can't do that, you gotta _drive_ the car for at least 30-45 minutes weekly. Idle speeds won't make the alternator put out much juice.

Arbitrage

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Re: Anyone else's car battery need jumped in the last month?
« Reply #63 on: April 27, 2020, 10:15:41 AM »
Your battery should be fine over 3 weeks without driving, perhaps absent some extreme environmental conditions, unless your battery is in bad shape.  I go that long - or sometimes longer - without driving all of the time now that I bike everywhere. 

Car batteries do need replacement regularly, though, and some maintenance isn't a bad plan either.

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Re: Anyone else's car battery need jumped in the last month?
« Reply #64 on: April 27, 2020, 02:34:42 PM »
jumped my RAV4 (with a 2 year old battery) on Saturday. Hadn't been driven in 4 weeks, except one for a 3 mile round trip to the supermarket. Our Honda hybrid can't jump another car (per manufacturer).
a neighbor drove over his car, I connected the cables, and jumped it. drove around for 15 minutes. been turning it on for 5 minutes every day and a couple of light revs.
at this point, the gas is 6 weeks old, need to burn off about 5 gallons then get fresh gas. could feel sluggish acceleration and rough idle.

5 minutes of runtime won't even replenish the energy used to start the car! Also a 5 minute run won't get anything up to temp, so you're building up condensation in the crank case and exhaust. This creates a sludge (water/oil mix) and causes corrosion.
This was why first car I bought years ago had a nearly rusted out muffler.  It has been an "extra" car for the first owner (he won the car at Burger King way back in the day, no joke), and he had never driven it more than a mile or two at a time.

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Re: Anyone else's car battery need jumped in the last month?
« Reply #65 on: April 27, 2020, 03:15:43 PM »
jumped my RAV4 (with a 2 year old battery) on Saturday. Hadn't been driven in 4 weeks, except one for a 3 mile round trip to the supermarket. Our Honda hybrid can't jump another car (per manufacturer).
a neighbor drove over his car, I connected the cables, and jumped it. drove around for 15 minutes. been turning it on for 5 minutes every day and a couple of light revs.
at this point, the gas is 6 weeks old, need to burn off about 5 gallons then get fresh gas. could feel sluggish acceleration and rough idle.

5 minutes of runtime won't even replenish the energy used to start the car! Also a 5 minute run won't get anything up to temp, so you're building up condensation in the crank case and exhaust. This creates a sludge (water/oil mix) and causes corrosion.

The absolute best, cheapest, most reliable thing to do is get a battery maintainer (decent ones can be had very cheaply: $20-30). Plug in or solar.

If you can't do that, you gotta _drive_ the car for at least 30-45 minutes weekly. Idle speeds won't make the alternator put out much juice.

I’m surprised to hear that the engine doesnt’ come up to temperature within 5 minutes.  On my dash the engine-temp dial stops climbing and holds steady at 2-3 minutes. Coincides with warm cabin heat.

How long should it take before the whole engine is warm?

I’ll look into getting a battery maintainer for the future.  While during non-Covid situations we drive the car at least a few times each week, we often have field work which requires us to be gone for 2-4 weeks. To date the car has always started but with sluggish turnover, though I realizes now that our batteries have never lasted more than 3 winters.  I’m guessing that’s why?


RWD

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Re: Anyone else's car battery need jumped in the last month?
« Reply #66 on: April 27, 2020, 03:43:52 PM »
jumped my RAV4 (with a 2 year old battery) on Saturday. Hadn't been driven in 4 weeks, except one for a 3 mile round trip to the supermarket. Our Honda hybrid can't jump another car (per manufacturer).
a neighbor drove over his car, I connected the cables, and jumped it. drove around for 15 minutes. been turning it on for 5 minutes every day and a couple of light revs.
at this point, the gas is 6 weeks old, need to burn off about 5 gallons then get fresh gas. could feel sluggish acceleration and rough idle.

5 minutes of runtime won't even replenish the energy used to start the car! Also a 5 minute run won't get anything up to temp, so you're building up condensation in the crank case and exhaust. This creates a sludge (water/oil mix) and causes corrosion.

The absolute best, cheapest, most reliable thing to do is get a battery maintainer (decent ones can be had very cheaply: $20-30). Plug in or solar.

If you can't do that, you gotta _drive_ the car for at least 30-45 minutes weekly. Idle speeds won't make the alternator put out much juice.

I’m surprised to hear that the engine doesnt’ come up to temperature within 5 minutes.  On my dash the engine-temp dial stops climbing and holds steady at 2-3 minutes. Coincides with warm cabin heat.

How long should it take before the whole engine is warm?

I’ll look into getting a battery maintainer for the future.  While during non-Covid situations we drive the car at least a few times each week, we often have field work which requires us to be gone for 2-4 weeks. To date the car has always started but with sluggish turnover, though I realizes now that our batteries have never lasted more than 3 winters.  I’m guessing that’s why?

Water (coolant/antifreeze) temperature comes up very quickly. That is the temperature gauge that is displayed in normal cars and will correspond with the cabin heater because the coolant is (typically) run through a heat exchanger behind the dashboard. However oil temperature, which more accurately indicates the state of the engine internals, takes longer to come up to temperature. Our Porsche has a dedicated separate oil temperature gauge and hits 150-160F after about 7 minutes of easy driving (before that temperature driving hard increases the rate of wear on the engine). Full operating temperature is somewhere around 195-220F for most vehicles, so expect 10-15 minutes to reach that unless you're like me and hammer the throttle as soon as it reads 160F. I have also read that some direct injection engines need their intake to reach full temp as well to prevent carbon build-up which can mean 30 minutes of driving at 3k rpm (recommended to do this once every 5-10k miles if you aren't doing it otherwise).

If you're trying to charge a battery 20-30 minutes at 2-3k rpm is likely going to be what it takes.

MilesTeg

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Re: Anyone else's car battery need jumped in the last month?
« Reply #67 on: April 27, 2020, 03:44:18 PM »
jumped my RAV4 (with a 2 year old battery) on Saturday. Hadn't been driven in 4 weeks, except one for a 3 mile round trip to the supermarket. Our Honda hybrid can't jump another car (per manufacturer).
a neighbor drove over his car, I connected the cables, and jumped it. drove around for 15 minutes. been turning it on for 5 minutes every day and a couple of light revs.
at this point, the gas is 6 weeks old, need to burn off about 5 gallons then get fresh gas. could feel sluggish acceleration and rough idle.

5 minutes of runtime won't even replenish the energy used to start the car! Also a 5 minute run won't get anything up to temp, so you're building up condensation in the crank case and exhaust. This creates a sludge (water/oil mix) and causes corrosion.

The absolute best, cheapest, most reliable thing to do is get a battery maintainer (decent ones can be had very cheaply: $20-30). Plug in or solar.

If you can't do that, you gotta _drive_ the car for at least 30-45 minutes weekly. Idle speeds won't make the alternator put out much juice.

I’m surprised to hear that the engine doesnt’ come up to temperature within 5 minutes.  On my dash the engine-temp dial stops climbing and holds steady at 2-3 minutes. Coincides with warm cabin heat.

How long should it take before the whole engine is warm?

I’ll look into getting a battery maintainer for the future.  While during non-Covid situations we drive the car at least a few times each week, we often have field work which requires us to be gone for 2-4 weeks. To date the car has always started but with sluggish turnover, though I realizes now that our batteries have never lasted more than 3 winters.  I’m guessing that’s why?

The temperature gauge in your car measures the temperature of the cylinder heads (where the combustion is happening). They heat up pretty quick because they are metal and there is burning fuel directly heating them. The temp that matters is the temp of your oil which takes a lot longer to warm up. Oil conducts heat poorly compared to metal (which means it takes more energy to heat it up) and only a tiny bit of your oil circulates through the cylinder heads at a time.

How long should you run a vehicle? Depends on outside temps. In cold weather I wouldn't let your engine run for less than ~20 minutes per start with a good portion of that driving.

And your exhaust also takes a lot longer to warm up than your cylinder heads. The best way to determine if your exhaust is up to temp is if it's still dripping lots of water. You want to get the exhaust warm enough that it evaporates all the water in the lines and muffler. Some exhausts will have several drain points but mufflers don't (can't). Note: water is a byproduct of combustion so that adds to the amount of water in your exhaust.

And yeah, your batteries not lasting very long is definitely due to not keeping them charged. Even in a fairly cold climate (weeks of below freezing temps) a decent, well maintained battery should last at least 6 or 8 years. The reason the average is so low is people don't maintain their batteries. I had a battery last nearly 10 before crapping out in my cold weather/hot weather climate because the car was almost always driven at least 30-40 minutes each way even during the cold months so the battery was always fully charged. You can get similar results with a battery maintainer.

RWD

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Re: Anyone else's car battery need jumped in the last month?
« Reply #68 on: April 27, 2020, 03:50:03 PM »
I found this short article which states you need oil temperature to reach 220F (exceed the boiling point of water).
Quote
For a dual-purpose car, engine oil needs to be at least 220 degrees F to burn off all the deposits and accumulated water vapor. For every pound of fuel burned in an engine, the combustion process also generates a pound of water! If engine sump temperatures rarely exceed 212 degrees (water's boiling point), the water will mix with sulfur (another combustion by-product) and create acids that can eventually damage bearings.

the_fixer

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Re: Anyone else's car battery need jumped in the last month?
« Reply #69 on: April 27, 2020, 04:52:25 PM »
jumped my RAV4 (with a 2 year old battery) on Saturday. Hadn't been driven in 4 weeks, except one for a 3 mile round trip to the supermarket. Our Honda hybrid can't jump another car (per manufacturer).
a neighbor drove over his car, I connected the cables, and jumped it. drove around for 15 minutes. been turning it on for 5 minutes every day and a couple of light revs.
at this point, the gas is 6 weeks old, need to burn off about 5 gallons then get fresh gas. could feel sluggish acceleration and rough idle.

5 minutes of runtime won't even replenish the energy used to start the car! Also a 5 minute run won't get anything up to temp, so you're building up condensation in the crank case and exhaust. This creates a sludge (water/oil mix) and causes corrosion.

The absolute best, cheapest, most reliable thing to do is get a battery maintainer (decent ones can be had very cheaply: $20-30). Plug in or solar.

If you can't do that, you gotta _drive_ the car for at least 30-45 minutes weekly. Idle speeds won't make the alternator put out much juice.

I’m surprised to hear that the engine doesnt’ come up to temperature within 5 minutes.  On my dash the engine-temp dial stops climbing and holds steady at 2-3 minutes. Coincides with warm cabin heat.

How long should it take before the whole engine is warm?

I’ll look into getting a battery maintainer for the future.  While during non-Covid situations we drive the car at least a few times each week, we often have field work which requires us to be gone for 2-4 weeks. To date the car has always started but with sluggish turnover, though I realizes now that our batteries have never lasted more than 3 winters.  I’m guessing that’s why?

The temperature gauge in your car measures the temperature of the cylinder heads (where the combustion is happening). They heat up pretty quick because they are metal and there is burning fuel directly heating them.


Not necessarily, the temp sensor can also be in the block and just a point of clarification they are not measuring the temperature of the head but the coolant as it passes by the sensor.

I am sure there are some non standard motors that test it different but testing the coolant temp via a sensor that is in the coolant stream is the typical case.


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nereo

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Re: Anyone else's car battery need jumped in the last month?
« Reply #70 on: April 27, 2020, 05:19:53 PM »
Thanks for the info!

RWD

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Re: Anyone else's car battery need jumped in the last month?
« Reply #71 on: April 27, 2020, 06:30:09 PM »
The temperature gauge in your car measures the temperature of the cylinder heads (where the combustion is happening). They heat up pretty quick because they are metal and there is burning fuel directly heating them.


Not necessarily, the temp sensor can also be in the block and just a point of clarification they are not measuring the temperature of the head but the coolant as it passes by the sensor.

I am sure there are some non standard motors that test it different but testing the coolant temp via a sensor that is in the coolant stream is the typical case.

It looks like a temperature sensor in the head is common on air-cooled engines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylinder_Head_Temperature_gauge

Also apparently modern vehicles often have a temperature sensor in the heads in addition to the standard one in the block. I believe it is used by the engine management computer and not displayed directly in the instrument cluster though.

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Anyone else's car battery need jumped in the last month?
« Reply #72 on: April 27, 2020, 07:50:03 PM »
Yep, my motor has one in the head that measures the water temp as it passes and one in the block that also reads the coolant temp, I can read the values from the ecu via my laptop.

I was trying to remember back to my VW bug and 411 and can not remember if they even had a temp gauge but that was long ago


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jinga nation

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Re: Anyone else's car battery need jumped in the last month?
« Reply #73 on: April 28, 2020, 03:15:56 PM »
jumped my RAV4 (with a 2 year old battery) on Saturday. Hadn't been driven in 4 weeks, except one for a 3 mile round trip to the supermarket. Our Honda hybrid can't jump another car (per manufacturer).
a neighbor drove over his car, I connected the cables, and jumped it. drove around for 15 minutes. been turning it on for 5 minutes every day and a couple of light revs.
at this point, the gas is 6 weeks old, need to burn off about 5 gallons then get fresh gas. could feel sluggish acceleration and rough idle.

I doubt the gas is the problem at 6 weeks. Maybe ECU re-learning due to dead battery?

Hmm... didn't think about it, you're probably right.
Anyways, been driving the car twice a week now to deliver food to my dad a few miles away, taking the longer route. As others have said, need 30+ minutes on the road. I think I'll have the wife drive it to her office tomorrow, since she needs to bring her work computer and equipment home.