The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: FrugalSaver on February 27, 2020, 07:24:40 PM
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Trying to get a sense of how this is affecting people’s decisions. Spring break is right around the corner.
Will Disney even be open for example?
Iger decided he’d had enough.
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Supposed to go to Europe for a month in August. Not sure yet if we will go. We would lose 1200 for our airfare.
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Also, thoughts on near term plans over the next 1-3 weeks as well as long term
Plansile
Mentioned above
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My SO is in Europe and just had to change travel plans. He was supposed to go into Italy, but it was essentially recommended at the border to stay in Switzerland--for fear of complications leaving Italy again due to the current situation.
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Well, I didn't have travel plans before 3:30 this afternoon. After 3:30, I sorta do. Looks like I'll be going to Alabama in 2 weeks for work. If everything blows up, I'm sure it'll get cancelled. Oh, and I'm spending the next 3 days with tens of thousands of people in a confined space. Lots of handwashing.
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Me and my wife and her parents are suppose to travel to Cali and Vegas end of April.
Since the first community virus appeared in Cali. We will keep an eye out for the situation. Her parents are over 60 and her dad is a smoker.
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We would normally be doing a few short getaways between now and summer, but we've decided to put that on hold, and not go anywhere until our summer trip to Europe. Well, I do have a camping trip booked for May, but I'm not terribly concerned about catching something in the middle of the woods. We are also holding off on booking our 2020/2021 winter trip for now since we usually go to Asia and want to see how things are looking over the next few months before committing - though if we end up needing to go to Nicaragua or whatever instead, that's totally fine with me.
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Ugh. I’m supposed to go to nyc in the end of March for a big work related but not mandatory thing that I have been really really looking forward to. I’m pregnant, so could be considered to have compromised immune system and my spouse is super concerned. I don’t think the risk is high yet, but his worry is. And I don’t know how to decide. His family lives much closer to the European outbreaks and has had to cancel plans and lost a lot of money due to it, so I suppose his concern comes from their experience as well.
Bleh. I keep putting off buying the tickets and everyone is really frustrated with me. And I am so disappointed. Do I put him through 6-8 weeks of this level of worry?? Bleh.
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I'm heading out to Chicago on Sunday for a huge industry conference/expo, usually attended by tens of thousands of professionals and students from across the world. A huge number of attendees come from Asia - although, a pretty big number of Chinese attendees are skipping because of travel restrictions.
I'm still going.
I'm simply going to be more hands-off this year than in previous years. Limited handshakes, no fiddling with stuff on the expo floor, plenty of handwashing, and just trying to be aware of who around me looks like they could be sick. I should be just fine.
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I'm taking the bus to Wisconsin next week. Honestly, the bus is less crowded than planes generally are. I'm taking hand sanitizer.
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Monitoring. We're supposed to do a Caribbean cruise in April with my folks. We may or may not go depending. I'm worried about my parent's contracting the virus on board- they're elderly. And I'm worried about not being able to actually put into ports. That would be a crappy cruise.
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I'm going to Mexico next week, followed by a drive to Florida two days later. Then a trip to Ireland about a month after that.
I have no intention of changing any of my plans unless the international boarders get locked down or the airlines stop flying.
I am still far more likely to have my trip canceled due to a terrible case of the yearly flu than something special like this.
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I know someone who saw an upside to this, and bought cruise tickets dirt cheap.
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We're due to go to a big city pop concert soon. I'd rather skip it but the rest of the family would lose their minds... ;)
Anyone stocking the pantry in case the gov't orders your area to stay home for a couple of weeks?
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We're due to go to a big city pop concert soon. I'd rather skip it but the rest of the family would lose their minds... ;)
Anyone stocking the pantry in case the gov't orders your area to stay home for a couple of weeks?
Yes, bought about a month worth of dried/household goods that we will eat/use over the next few months regardless. But I have an infant at home so I am trying to be as prepared as possible.
I am also reading between the lines. The CDC is telling people to be prepared without trying to cause a panic.
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Going to Italy in two weeks, so far no change of plans.
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This is our year to do some short recon trips to cities that we're thinking of moving to. I just booked one such trip, to New Orleans, in May.
I did pay $40 for trip insurance, when I normally wouldn't have for such a short trip/flight, in case for some reason air travel is grounded and I'm not allowed to go. I'm hoping that doesn't happen because we really need to make these trips this year if we are going to pull off a move before our lease is up. But at least I won't be out the airfare.
I'm very bad about keeping food in the house (I keep the bare minimum so I am not tempted to eat) so I am going to stock up this weekend.
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I'm very bad about keeping food in the house (I keep the bare minimum so I am not tempted to eat) so I am going to stock up this weekend.
Same here. I need to stock up before the store shelves are bare.
And I'm definitely not planning on doing any non-essential travel.
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Well in 2 weeks my Dad is driving up to my place, and at the same time my sister is flying down to hang out, and drive back up with him to the Midwest. She is now freaking out and wondering if she should cancel plans. I told her hey we don't know what's going to happen, and might as well wait and if everything is being canceled then obviously not go. But not cancel now. First they are non refundable tickets, 2nd, I'm more concerned about my Dad. He is 87, has some health conditions including heart. If she doesn't fly down he will be driving by himself for a 14-16 hour drive.
As far as other plans no international travel as of yet, but a visit to family in summer, and possibly a short beach trip in summer/fall. Nothing I'm concerned about canceling on.
Next year I would like to do something special for daughter graduating high school, including possibly a trip to Europe. She would especially like to go to Italy or Greece and see historic/ancient sites (one of her nerd areas is Latin and ancient history). I just don't know scheduling, money, with current events, whether it will happen.
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I've started substituting an elbow bump instead of a handshake in my meetings, saying I'm getting in practice for Coronavirus...
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I have a trip to Alaska next month, a trip to the mid west in April, etc.
Everything is still on the books for me.
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We have had a Mexican Riviera Cruise booked for late March/Early April since December... terrible timing, right? We are long past the refund stage. We are still planning on going, but are open to canceling if things get really bad, we leave from LA. They have really ramped up the caution on cruises, there's a physical of sorts to get on board and they will deny boarding to anyone who has traveled to Asia or a few other places within 2 weeks of departure. I guess I'm a little worried about it, but at the same time I am in NW Washington way closer to actual cases of COVID-19 in BC than I would be in the current situation in LA. And there are lots of people from BC that shop in the US Boarder towns on a regular basis...
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I'm supposed to fly in 2.5 weeks for a work-related conference. It's a small company and they've decided to monitor the news and determine whether all 5 of us really need to go or whether just the 2 most important people (one of whom can drive) should attend.
I'm more concerned about governmental/societal impacts (like quarantines) than the actual illness, but I won't be at all disappointed if they tell me to stay home. We stocked our freezer/pantry earlier this week, just in case it starts to look like grocery shopping is a bad idea.
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Basel, Switzerland just canceled Fastnacht (their version of Carnival) citing the Coronavirus threat.
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PMG, I would cancel the trip with a very worried husband. I wouldn’t want to risk getting the virus while pregnant.
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I'm heading out to Chicago on Sunday for a huge industry conference/expo, usually attended by tens of thousands of professionals and students from across the world. A huge number of attendees come from Asia - although, a pretty big number of Chinese attendees are skipping because of travel restrictions.
I'm still going.
I'm simply going to be more hands-off this year than in previous years. Limited handshakes, no fiddling with stuff on the expo floor, plenty of handwashing, and just trying to be aware of who around me looks like they could be sick. I should be just fine.
Pittcon? If so, hope you have a good conference. I used to attend every 3-4 years (1990 - 2010). Always interesting checking out the latest instruments/techniques.
I have a trip to Utah (Moab) booked for late March (east coast to O'Hare to SLC) and a mid-April trip to Amsterdam/Belgium. I think the Utah trip should be OK, but I'm less certain about the Europe trip. Right now, I'm not going to book anything new until there's clarity on the virus/virus spread (e.g. was thinking about Colorado in early May).
I'm also going to delay signing up for some spring cycling events.
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PMG, I would cancel the trip with a very worried husband. I wouldn’t want to risk getting the virus while pregnant.
I did back out today. And cried over it. Even if I'm not super worried, there is increased risk and he is truly concerned, and... I just couldn't ignore that.
His family who are much closer to outbreaks and one of whom works in a very "international" job are preparing to be quarantined. That got us talking that we've eaten up a lot of our dry goods, so perhaps we'll stock up a bit extra. We live very rurally, so I expect we'll continue to be low risk for a while, but some extra shelf stable food isn't a bad idea.
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I'm thinking a lot about this. I have three international trips this year. Mexican riviera in March, France in June, Canada in July. I'm still planning to go to all 3, but will cancel at the last minute if necessary.
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Anyone looking for good deals for vacations DUE to Corona? I'm considering it!
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Anyone looking for good deals for vacations DUE to Corona? I'm considering it!
Kinda. I was planning a Germany trip this summer but just watching the flights. Prices dropped by 250 over the last few days.
I have 2 trips booked already for April within the US. Still planning to go.
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I would love to make some Europe plans for September or October, but I'm reluctant to with the current state of the world.
Does anyone have a lead on some good travel insurance which would pay out the cost of my tickets in Covid-2019 gets in the way?
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Anyone looking for good deals for vacations DUE to Corona? I'm considering it!
Nah. I’m not gonna postpone any travel I do have, but shit on the ground could potentially get really bad. No reason to go looking for problems.
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Kinda. I was planning a Germany trip this summer but just watching the flights. Prices dropped by 250 over the last few days.
I have 2 trips booked already for April within the US. Still planning to go.
Seeing the same thing for flights. I have to still book a few flights in April, looks like prices have come down. Kind of glad I procrastinated. Now I want to check out various vacations, the only thing I wouldn't consider would be a cruise. Keeping an eye on Cancun all inclusive pricing.
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Nah. I’m not gonna postpone any travel I do have, but shit on the ground could potentially get really bad. No reason to go looking for problems.
I think the whole thing is being way overblown by media hysteria, but we'll see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39A7Tr-H29E&fbclid=IwAR1-OZwF2JTRFliJ7-BElpkzF8ekFOKc7XeTr7wnRlJsw71dscogTXZtCcU&app=desktop
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Nah. I’m not gonna postpone any travel I do have, but shit on the ground could potentially get really bad. No reason to go looking for problems.
I think the whole thing is being way overblown by media hysteria, but we'll see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39A7Tr-H29E&fbclid=IwAR1-OZwF2JTRFliJ7-BElpkzF8ekFOKc7XeTr7wnRlJsw71dscogTXZtCcU&app=desktop
That could easily be. But since Dr. Drew doesn’t even seem to have a handle of what the actual definition of a pandemic is, I’m gonna take a pass on considering him an authority figure on this.
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After wasting most of the winter in the city due to major vehicle theft, I had enough of the BS and decided to drive down to Mexico, dispersed camping in the back of the pickup truck while travelling in the US Southwest and the Pacific coast of Mexico. Mexico has just announced its first case of Coronavirus this week, but I usually hang out far from crowds so I am not too concerned. Daughter and son will be flying to visit me for a few weeks so I rented a BnB in a small tourist-free village an hour north of Puerto Vallarta...another son is freaking out about the virus and has decided to stay home.
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That could easily be. But since Dr. Drew doesn’t even seem to have a handle of what the actual definition of a pandemic is, I’m gonna take a pass on considering him an authority figure on this.
Not sure if you watched, but his advice is basically to listen to the CDC, which is what people are not doing -- instead they are relying on the media. He gives sound advice, and he has worked with infectious disease in large numbers. At minimum, he knows quite a bit on the subject and is deferring to the right authorities.
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That could easily be. But since Dr. Drew doesn’t even seem to have a handle of what the actual definition of a pandemic is, I’m gonna take a pass on considering him an authority figure on this.
Not sure if you watched, but his advice is basically to listen to the CDC, which is what people are not doing -- instead they are relying on the media. He gives sound advice, and he has worked with infectious disease in large numbers. At minimum, he knows quite a bit on the subject and is deferring to the right authorities.
I’ve watched a couple of his videos on this. Including this one.
His remarks about the press are apt.
But a pandemic is a disease that spreads across multiple continents or worldwide.
This already is a pandemic. And the imprecision of his words does not inspire great confidence in me. I think he, like many media figures, is motivated by the desire to be relevant.
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A bunch of people I know just flew back from the big fiber festival in California last weekend ... which was very close to where the second case of unknown origin was announced today.
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That could easily be. But since Dr. Drew doesn’t even seem to have a handle of what the actual definition of a pandemic is, I’m gonna take a pass on considering him an authority figure on this.
Not sure if you watched, but his advice is basically to listen to the CDC, which is what people are not doing -- instead they are relying on the media. He gives sound advice, and he has worked with infectious disease in large numbers. At minimum, he knows quite a bit on the subject and is deferring to the right authorities.
I’ve watched a couple of his videos on this. Including this one.
His remarks about the press are apt.
But a pandemic is a disease that spreads across multiple continents or worldwide.
This already is a pandemic. And the imprecision of his words does not inspire great confidence in me. I think he, like many media figures, is motivated by the desire to be relevant.
The WHO has not declared this a pandemic. Maybe the doctor is speaking accurately.
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https://www.healthline.com/health-news/when-will-we-know-if-we-are-in-a-global-pandemic
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The WHO has not declared this a pandemic. Maybe the doctor is speaking accurately.
That's my understanding, it hasn't been classified as a pandemic yet.
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Going to Italy in two weeks, so far no change of plans.
Gonna have to change that to pending discussion.
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My wife and I have a big trip planned for late May. Olympic peninsula, Oregon coast, NW California, then back up through the Cascades. Flying in and out of Seattle. Yesterday they announced community transmission cases in northern California, Oregon, and Washington. Fuck. We bought non-refundable plane tickets. Most of the lodging reservations and the rental car can be cancelled up to a week or so before the trip. I guess we'll see how things play out over the next month or two.
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That could easily be. But since Dr. Drew doesn’t even seem to have a handle of what the actual definition of a pandemic is, I’m gonna take a pass on considering him an authority figure on this.
Not sure if you watched, but his advice is basically to listen to the CDC, which is what people are not doing -- instead they are relying on the media. He gives sound advice, and he has worked with infectious disease in large numbers. At minimum, he knows quite a bit on the subject and is deferring to the right authorities.
I’ve watched a couple of his videos on this. Including this one.
His remarks about the press are apt.
But a pandemic is a disease that spreads across multiple continents or worldwide.
This already is a pandemic. And the imprecision of his words does not inspire great confidence in me. I think he, like many media figures, is motivated by the desire to be relevant.
The WHO has not declared this a pandemic. Maybe the doctor is speaking accurately.
There may be financial reasons for not labeling this a pandemic: https://www.mintpressnews.com/?s=pandemic
Flying to CA from NY at the end of March.
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Yeah, sometimes I have to call an Uber when I have too many.
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Heading to Utah in early April. Trip has been planned for many months with no intention of cancelling.
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I was iffy about attending an industry conference with significant international attendance in a couple of weeks (not registered, have backdoor access if needed) - decided to skip it. Wasn't solely (or even a majority) of the reason, but it did tip the decision from "Not sure if it's worth the hassle. Maybe." to "Nah, gonna skip it". I've already done two major conferences this year.
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I would be far less concerned about getting sick while traveling than I would about being stranded if the local government decided to impose mandatory isolation/quarantine or ground flights. I wouldn’t cancel existing plans (unless there was a significant travel advisory at the destination), but given how quickly government responses are shifting, I would hesitate to make new plans.
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I would be far less concerned about getting sick while traveling than I would about being stranded if the local government decided to impose mandatory isolation/quarantine or ground flights. I wouldn’t cancel existing plans (unless there was a significant travel advisory at the destination), but given how quickly government responses are shifting, I would hesitate to make new plans.
Yes, this is exactly how I see it.
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We are increasing the travel risk level to 4 for parts of Italy and South Korea. Just saw it on the news.
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We have a backpacking trip to southern UT planned for late April. If things are pretty bad, our flight might be cancelled or maybe we'd want to skip it. Luckily, it's only a few hours more to drive each way than to fly and our flight's on Southwest which has no fee cancellations, so no loss either way.
My trip to the Caucasus in early May is a bit more of a concern and a significant financial loss if the airline and tour company won't refund/hold my funds for me. I won't cancel so long as both are in place, but I know that if they cancel they will have no problem declaring it an act of god and using their cancellation policies to declare it's not their responsibility and they are allowed to keep all my money.
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This seems to me like a time when it's probably prudent for everyone to just stay put as much as possible.
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I did pay $40 for trip insurance, when I normally wouldn't have for such a short trip/flight, in case for some reason air travel is grounded and I'm not allowed to go. I'm hoping that doesn't happen because we really need to make these trips this year if we are going to pull off a move before our lease is up. But at least I won't be out the airfare.
I saw a couple comments to this effect, but can anybody verify with certainty whether passengers would be reimbursed if the airline canceled the flight (due to government quarantine restrictions), regardless of insurance? A brief Google search didn't return helpful information.
I have a trip to Maui planned for a month from now. Fingers crossed....
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Business trip in a couple odd weeks. Waiting to see.
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No personal trips planned, but the company I work for (and the big fortune 500 company that they're contracted with) just announced the cancellation of all job-related travel until further notice. Which given we're talking about multiple global offices, is a Very Big Deal, money-wise.
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We have a trip planned in June to the other side of our state. I am sure things will have settled down by then and we will be fine to go. If not, we can cancel the hotel and reschedule for another time. That is the best part about car trips. My kids will be super disappointed though.
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We have a trip to New Zealand planned in three weeks with a four day stop in San Francisco first. We're proceeding as planned. The only way we would cancel our plans is if the airline canceled it for us. If we get quarantined, then looks like we'll be able to catch up on reading a back log of books on our Kindles.
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Events I've already volunteered for, I will honor that. However, otherwise avoiding leaving the house at all when possible/have cut all travel plans. We're both low risk, but with the long incubation period, it could well be in our area already and nobody knows yet. Seems the prudent thing to do to help protect those that are at high risk.
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Been following these charts closely since last week since I'm going to Belgium next week and it's not that far (in US kindest) from northern Italy. No real spread and non-active cases. The active cases overall are going down each days and only 2-3k new cases each day. If this thing was as bad as people were saying, I feel we would've saw more cases at this point.
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Been following these charts closely since last week since I'm going to Belgium next week and it's not that far (in US mindset) from northern Italy. No real spread and non-active cases. The active cases overall are going down each days and only 2-3k new cases each day. If this thing was as bad as people were saying, I feel we would've saw more cases at this point.
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We have a trip planned in June to the other side of our state. I am sure things will have settled down by then and we will be fine to go. If not, we can cancel the hotel and reschedule for another time. That is the best part about car trips. My kids will be super disappointed though.
What state are you in? What makes that part of the state safer than where you are at now?
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We have a trip planned in June to the other side of our state. I am sure things will have settled down by then and we will be fine to go. If not, we can cancel the hotel and reschedule for another time. That is the best part about car trips. My kids will be super disappointed though.
What state are you in? What makes that part of the state safer than where you are at now?
That is the weird part. I can’t say that my local area is safer than where we plan to travel. The only thing that makes the vacation area a little “riskier” to me is that it is a popular travel destination and we’d be around more crowds of people. Having reviewed what is currently know about this virus, it looks like it has a similar transmission rate to SARS which never became a concern in our portion of the Midwest. But having dealt with both kids having influenza in February, we really don’t want to deal with another yucky virus and kids sick for a week or more.
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I was planning on doing some extensive camping trips with my daughter this summer and working on the road but I am holding off on making any firm plans. It seems likely that communities will go into some kind of lock down if the virus hits them. My mother lives in my community and is elderly and has pretty bad asthma and I don't want to be locked out from helping her if it hits here. I am on a committee that is putting on a conference at the end of March and we are flying in speakers from all over the place (in the US). So far, none of the speakers are balking at making the trip because of the coronavirus, but I do plan on addressing our plan B with the planning committee next week.
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Been following these charts closely since last week since I'm going to Belgium next week and it's not that far (in US kindest) from northern Italy. No real spread and non-active cases. The active cases overall are going down each days and only 2-3k new cases each day. If this thing was as bad as people were saying, I feel we would've saw more cases at this point.
Everyday I read and see the news, the problem seems to be getting exponentially worse. l would say it's every bit as bad as people were saying and worse than many people had been saying, who seemed to be downplaying it.
I definitely wouldn't travel unless it was absolutely necessary. I don't even like that I have to go into work tomorrow.
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Been following these charts closely since last week since I'm going to Belgium next week and it's not that far (in US kindest) from northern Italy. No real spread and non-active cases. The active cases overall are going down each days and only 2-3k new cases each day. If this thing was as bad as people were saying, I feel we would've saw more cases at this point.
Everyday I read and see the news, the problem seems to be getting exponentially worse. l would say it's every bit as bad as people were saying and worse than many people had been saying, who seemed to be downplaying it.
I definitely wouldn't travel unless it was absolutely necessary. I don't even like that I have to go into work tomorrow.
Where do you live? For most Americans, if you are scared of the risk of getting this by going to work, you probably shouldn't leave your house due to risk of a car accident
What news make you think it is so bad? Is it 70 Americans got sick but took a month? That the mortality rate for those under 50 is close to zero? Reading about SARs was super scary. This virus is serious and people should take precautions to prevent the spread but this isnt going to kill a ton of Americans. 3k mostly in poor health conditions across the world over 2.5 months doesn't seem that bad to me.
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Been following these charts closely since last week since I'm going to Belgium next week and it's not that far (in US kindest) from northern Italy. No real spread and non-active cases. The active cases overall are going down each days and only 2-3k new cases each day. If this thing was as bad as people were saying, I feel we would've saw more cases at this point.
Everyday I read and see the news, the problem seems to be getting exponentially worse. l would say it's every bit as bad as people were saying and worse than many people had been saying, who seemed to be downplaying it.
I definitely wouldn't travel unless it was absolutely necessary. I don't even like that I have to go into work tomorrow.
Turn off the news you're falling for the hysteria.
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Everyday I read and see the news, the problem seems to be getting exponentially worse. l would say it's every bit as bad as people were saying and worse than many people had been saying, who seemed to be downplaying it.
I definitely wouldn't travel unless it was absolutely necessary. I don't even like that I have to go into work tomorrow.
Where do you live? For most Americans, if you are scared of the risk of getting this by going to work, you probably shouldn't leave your house due to risk of a car accident
What news make you think it is so bad? Is it 70 Americans got sick but took a month? That the mortality rate for those under 50 is close to zero? Reading about SARs was super scary. This virus is serious and people should take precautions to prevent the spread but this isnt going to kill a ton of Americans. 3k mostly in poor health conditions across the world over 2.5 months doesn't seem that bad to me.
It sounds like you are in a state of denial or spent too much time listening to Trump/Pence, who are trying to downplay it, saying it will go away in April, it will magically disappear, and that the regular flu is worse. I suggest you read some of the threads in the other sections of this forum on the topic and catch up on the latest news. Top virologist Dr. Joseph Fair stated that there are probably 100's of unknown cases in the community that haven't been diagnosed and have been spreading this for days. It is spreading among an elderly nursing facility in Washington. The state has declared an emergency. Just today, I've learned of 2 new cases of community spread in my region, one within a couple hours drive, which means it's almost certainly infected many others who have been spreading it for days. Don't let the early "1 death" mislead you in to a false sense of security. We are very early in this, and with the incubation period and the distribution of test kits, as well as the progressive of the severity of the illness in individual cases, you can expect many more diagnosis to come in the days and weeks ahead. Does that make this problem any less serious today? I don't think so. Look at what's happened in other countries that had outbreaks before us. Check Italy, check South Korea.
Remember, dealing with the facts, we know COVID-19 to be highly contagious, has a much higher fatality rate than the flu, 10% of cases require hospitalization (which the health care facilities are not prepared for), serious cases and fatality rate are higher in older people or those with certain underlying health conditions, there's no vaccine (nor is there likely to be one for a year to year and a half at the earliest with unknown effectiveness), and indications are that spring weather will not make it go away.
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Been following these charts closely since last week since I'm going to Belgium next week and it's not that far (in US kindest) from northern Italy. No real spread and non-active cases. The active cases overall are going down each days and only 2-3k new cases each day. If this thing was as bad as people were saying, I feel we would've saw more cases at this point.
Everyday I read and see the news, the problem seems to be getting exponentially worse. l would say it's every bit as bad as people were saying and worse than many people had been saying, who seemed to be downplaying it.
I definitely wouldn't travel unless it was absolutely necessary. I don't even like that I have to go into work tomorrow.
Non-elderly people without chronic health conditions are unlikely to develop symptoms beyond a bad cold/standard flu. You are most at risk of your local authorities imposing isolation/quarantine protocols. Practice good flu season hygiene and stock your pantry. Those are things you can control. Otherwise, keep living your life. This level of fear is not healthy, and stress reduces immune function.
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Been following these charts closely since last week since I'm going to Belgium next week and it's not that far (in US kindest) from northern Italy. No real spread and non-active cases. The active cases overall are going down each days and only 2-3k new cases each day. If this thing was as bad as people were saying, I feel we would've saw more cases at this point.
Everyday I read and see the news, the problem seems to be getting exponentially worse. l would say it's every bit as bad as people were saying and worse than many people had been saying, who seemed to be downplaying it.
I definitely wouldn't travel unless it was absolutely necessary. I don't even like that I have to go into work tomorrow.
Non-elderly people without chronic health conditions are unlikely to develop symptoms beyond a bad cold/standard flu.
I mentioned in my previous post that it's more serious for older people and those with underlying health conditions. But also remember, even those young healthy people who are infected and asymptomatic can spread the virus. We need not only think of ourselves. I know plenty of older people that I care about.
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Been following these charts closely since last week since I'm going to Belgium next week and it's not that far (in US kindest) from northern Italy. No real spread and non-active cases. The active cases overall are going down each days and only 2-3k new cases each day. If this thing was as bad as people were saying, I feel we would've saw more cases at this point.
Everyday I read and see the news, the problem seems to be getting exponentially worse. l would say it's every bit as bad as people were saying and worse than many people had been saying, who seemed to be downplaying it.
I definitely wouldn't travel unless it was absolutely necessary. I don't even like that I have to go into work tomorrow.
Non-elderly people without chronic health conditions are unlikely to develop symptoms beyond a bad cold/standard flu.
I mentioned in my previous post that it's more serious for older people and those with underlying health conditions. But also remember, even those young healthy people who are infected and asymptomatic can spread the virus. We need not only think of ourselves. I know plenty of older people that I care about.
No argument there. My parents and in-laws are all elderly, as are many of my friends and extended family. Hence the advice to practice good flu-season hygiene and prepare for the possibility of isolation at home. Your loved ones and mine are also at risk of flu. Applying the same level of caution as you would for flu is probably the most useful thing you can do, especially as the new coronavirus has been in community circulation for probably 2 months at this point.
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We have a trip to Vegas planned in two weeks. We are still planning to go. My only concern with that is potentially getting stranded somewhere or being required to quarantine. We are going to hike, which should be pretty safe.
I just finished a work trip and don't have any more planned. I wouldn't be surprised if my company cuts back on travel.
We have a family trip planned in June to the SW. We haven't bought tickets for that yet and I'm debating holding off vs. purchasing. It is also a hiking trip so fairly low risk.
We were getting ready to buy tickets to go to OH for Thanksgiving. Generally we get much better deals buying ahead. The family we are visiting are elderly so my hesitation is that it may be on their best interest for us not to visit if there is any active virus in our metro. And again, this year better deals may occur closer to the trip if lots of other people also cancel.
Despite the fast spread I'm not too worried at the moment (although you couldn't pay me to step foot on a cruise ship). But I recognize that could change extremely quickly.
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Was thinking about visiting the States this month for my little brother's birthday. Uh, maybe not...
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I'm starting to think I may not even have a choice for my cruise late this month. I think with recent stories about ships being denied access to ports, Cruises may start having to cancel before leaving and refunding 100%. This would honestly be the best possible scenario as I no longer want to go but we are long past the paid in full date with zero refund opportunities available. $5,500-ish on the line, plus another $500 or so in excursions. Not to mention my parents are also going meaning $8,000+ total tied up in this clusterf*ck.
Before you jump on me for paying this much for a cruise it's a paid-by-them retirement celebration trip for my dad who retired this past fall...
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https://medium.com/@amwren/forget-about-the-death-rate-this-is-why-you-should-be-worried-about-the-coronavirus-890fbf9c4de6. This is concerning. Based on these numbers and methods of transmission, no way this is going to be contained, esp in us land of freedom, high mobility, and for pay healthcare. It's going to be an interesting ride, the next year and a half.
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https://medium.com/@amwren/forget-about-the-death-rate-this-is-why-you-should-be-worried-about-the-coronavirus-890fbf9c4de6. This is concerning. Based on these numbers and methods of transmission, no way this is going to be contained, esp in us land of freedom, high mobility, and for pay healthcare. It's going to be an interesting ride, the next year and a half.
Sure, it's not going to be contained.
Slowing the rate of spread is very important because of the demand on hospitals - if we slow it, this will reduce the peak demand, so more people who should be in hospital will be able to be treated there.
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The time of incubation seems to be around 9 days. So it sounds like if you need to self-quarantine, need to stay indoors 12-14 days. Good to make sure have enough non-perishable items to not go to store in that period of time. I am worried about my kids. My oldest is a junior. She just took her ACT and will be taking her SAT this month. All of her classes are highly demanding (can't even miss a day). I don't know what's going to happen if they shut schools down.
I also have a deposit on a place for when I visit my family in summer. It's a tourist destination (population swells during summer). I might have to kiss that deposit goodbye if no one wants to risk traveling by then.
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Perhaps I am being cavalier but I'm one of those people who thinks it will be gone in 1-2 months. We have been through similar stuff before and it's always the end of the world, until it's not. I will eat my words if I'm wrong but as of now I can't help but feel it is overhyped.
As for travel plans - I am getting married in October, so there's the flight to the wedding, to the honeymoon, back from the honeymoon, plus a flight in September for the bachelorette party (all domestic - I live in New England, wedding + bach are in the South, we're looking to honeymoon in CO). So far we've only booked one leg of all this travel but we are proceeding as normal, which is "waiting until flights are cheap". I get being cautious, but at the same time...am I going to cancel the wedding (that all of the guests are travelling to) that we've been planning and paying towards for almost a year? Skip the bachelorette I'll only have one chance to have?
I'm open to advice but with all this being 6/7 months away...it's hard to not just keep going. Ours is one of 4 weddings in my FI's family in the next 12 months, all over the country.
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Perhaps I am being cavalier but I'm one of those people who thinks it will be gone in 1-2 months. We have been through similar stuff before and it's always the end of the world, until it's not. I will eat my words if I'm wrong but as of now I can't help but feel it is overhyped.
As for travel plans - I am getting married in October, so there's the flight to the wedding, to the honeymoon, back from the honeymoon, plus a flight in September for the bachelorette party (all domestic - I live in New England, wedding + bach are in the South, we're looking to honeymoon in CO). So far we've only booked one leg of all this travel but we are proceeding as normal, which is "waiting until flights are cheap". I get being cautious, but at the same time...am I going to cancel the wedding (that all of the guests are travelling to) that we've been planning and paying towards for almost a year? Skip the bachelorette I'll only have one chance to have?
I'm open to advice but with all this being 6/7 months away...it's hard to not just keep going. Ours is one of 4 weddings in my FI's family in the next 12 months, all over the country.
Well whatever happens, remember it is not the end of the world. I have a coworker who planned an elaborate wedding on the coast (Charleston, SC) and a couple weeks before getting worrisome reports of hurricanes. She didn't want to cancel and waited to last minute. Yep her entire wedding had to be canceled and she lost a bunch of deposits. What she did was her and her husband got married in court. Within the year they had a smaller celebration (one they could afford after losing significant amount of money). They are married all the same.
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Perhaps I am being cavalier but I'm one of those people who thinks it will be gone in 1-2 months. We have been through similar stuff before and it's always the end of the world, until it's not. I will eat my words if I'm wrong but as of now I can't help but feel it is overhyped.
As for travel plans - I am getting married in October, so there's the flight to the wedding, to the honeymoon, back from the honeymoon, plus a flight in September for the bachelorette party (all domestic - I live in New England, wedding + bach are in the South, we're looking to honeymoon in CO). So far we've only booked one leg of all this travel but we are proceeding as normal, which is "waiting until flights are cheap". I get being cautious, but at the same time...am I going to cancel the wedding (that all of the guests are travelling to) that we've been planning and paying towards for almost a year? Skip the bachelorette I'll only have one chance to have?
I'm open to advice but with all this being 6/7 months away...it's hard to not just keep going. Ours is one of 4 weddings in my FI's family in the next 12 months, all over the country.
Even if it becomes a terrible pandemic it could still be gone in 2, or more likely 4 months. I wouldn't change any fall plans.
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Perhaps I am being cavalier but I'm one of those people who thinks it will be gone in 1-2 months. We have been through similar stuff before and it's always the end of the world, until it's not. I will eat my words if I'm wrong but as of now I can't help but feel it is overhyped.
As for travel plans - I am getting married in October, so there's the flight to the wedding, to the honeymoon, back from the honeymoon, plus a flight in September for the bachelorette party (all domestic - I live in New England, wedding + bach are in the South, we're looking to honeymoon in CO). So far we've only booked one leg of all this travel but we are proceeding as normal, which is "waiting until flights are cheap". I get being cautious, but at the same time...am I going to cancel the wedding (that all of the guests are travelling to) that we've been planning and paying towards for almost a year? Skip the bachelorette I'll only have one chance to have?
I'm open to advice but with all this being 6/7 months away...it's hard to not just keep going. Ours is one of 4 weddings in my FI's family in the next 12 months, all over the country.
Well whatever happens, remember it is not the end of the world. I have a coworker who planned an elaborate wedding on the coast (Charleston, SC) and a couple weeks before getting worrisome reports of hurricanes. She didn't want to cancel and waited to last minute. Yep her entire wedding had to be canceled and she lost a bunch of deposits. What she did was her and her husband got married in court. Within the year they had a smaller celebration (one they could afford after losing significant amount of money). They are married all the same.
ROFL - that's us. We are getting married not far from Charleston, on the water, during hurricane season. Even with Corona I'm 100x more worried about that.
For about $200 we are getting wedding insurance that will cover lost deposits for weather events (and also for stuff like vendor no-shows). I'm sure there will be some loss but it won't be anywhere near the whole thing.
My fiance is from a few hours inland so, assuming people are still willing/able to come, we might be able to move it to a modest venue in/near his hometown. It won't be the wedding we planned, but it would be something.
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Even if it becomes a terrible pandemic it could still be gone in 2, or more likely 4 months. I wouldn't change any fall plans.
This makes me feel better! :) trying to not let this stuff get in the way of a happy time.
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Even if it becomes a terrible pandemic it could still be gone in 2, or more likely 4 months.
I'm unconvinced that you can go from pandemic to gone, ever. Once they call pandemic you are talking about Covid-2019 being endemic for the foreseeable future.
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I would not go to Italy, Iran, South Korea, China or Japan right now. I'd also question whether I'd go to CA or WA.
I do think it is a little selfish to continue to travel just for fun to the main areas of outbreak. Sure, you may not be in the risk group. But further facilitating the spread puts a lot of other people at risk. Also, my fear isn't getting the illness seriously myself but also dealing with quarantine, flight cancellations etc. There are fewer flights from Milan.
I had a work trip to Houston planned. It was for a training course. My company wants to limit non-essential travel. So I'll likely postpone. I have a wedding in TN at the end of the month. I'll still go to that unless things change. But currently no outbreak there and not one of the locations I've listed above. I'll observe good practices.
I have a trip to Germany at the end of April. That is totally wait and see.
The isolated cases in NY are in someone who traveled to Iran and a health care worker. So no super worried about NY airports yet.
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Going to Italy in two weeks, so far no change of plans.
Are you still going? A lot of flights in and out of Italy are being cancelled. You'll also be subject to additional screening and possible quarantine. Don't infect all of CT!
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Interesting read from an infectious disease doctor and FI blogger. I'm not altering anything regarding travel plans -- in fact I'm booking all my flights now as they are on discount. We increased our supply storage to 1 month, but that's the only change we've made.
https://www.fiphysician.com/coronavirus-pandemic-and-the-stock-market/?fbclid=IwAR0wzPBq9_c3NmXedG42oOGB19Ow28FJu4lTbQZj0FG-XJ4QptzJ8Ou_aIY
China seems to already have a handle on it and the rest of the world will follow:
The trend seems to be holding: as of Monday there have been 44,518 recoveries in China, compared to 32,741 outstanding infections.
The figures suggest a tipping point in the spread of the disease on the mainland, which has noticeably slowed in recent days.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-recorded-more-fully-recovered-154145529.html
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I have a seminar in Washington DC in May. Haven't yet purchased airfare but monitoring. I will still probably go.
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Traveling to Iceland in two weeks on vacation. Still a go for the GF and I.
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My wife and I have a big trip planned for late May. Olympic peninsula, Oregon coast, NW California, then back up through the Cascades. Flying in and out of Seattle. Yesterday they announced community transmission cases in northern California, Oregon, and Washington. Fuck. We bought non-refundable plane tickets. Most of the lodging reservations and the rental car can be cancelled up to a week or so before the trip. I guess we'll see how things play out over the next month or two.
Yup, have a similar trip planned for my honeymoon in April. We are going to play it by ear and see what happens. Used points for the airline tickets, and bought Amtrak tickets. We haven't made hotel reservations yet.
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I mentioned upthread that we're going to London for two weeks. We're leaving on Wednesday. No plans to alter anything, but I am packing latex gloves, hand sanitizer, and alcohol wipes, none of which I would normally bring.
That's pretty much the extent of our prep. I'm also practicing washing my hands thoroughly, and also practicing not touching my face (which I tend to do a lot). Won't be shaking any hands at the conference I'm attending, and will be using the wipes whenever I come in contact with a contaminated space out in the wild.
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We've canceled a trip to the east coast beaches soon but that's as much about other tasks as the virus. I have two spring trips for work that puts me in the middle of a large group of people both times - some international visitors. I'd be happy if those were canceled for this year. No infections in our part of the country yet but any day now I expect someone to fly in from the west coast and start a series of infections near one of the international airports elsewhere in the state.
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Interesting read from an infectious disease doctor and FI blogger. I'm not altering anything regarding travel plans -- in fact I'm booking all my flights now as they are on discount. We increased our supply storage to 1 month, but that's the only change we've made.
https://www.fiphysician.com/coronavirus-pandemic-and-the-stock-market/?fbclid=IwAR0wzPBq9_c3NmXedG42oOGB19Ow28FJu4lTbQZj0FG-XJ4QptzJ8Ou_aIY
China seems to already have a handle on it and the rest of the world will follow:
The trend seems to be holding: as of Monday there have been 44,518 recoveries in China, compared to 32,741 outstanding infections.
The figures suggest a tipping point in the spread of the disease on the mainland, which has noticeably slowed in recent days.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-recorded-more-fully-recovered-154145529.html
It's important to note what China did to contain the virus. Public gathering places (such as special events and restaurants and movie theaters) were closed down across the country for extended periods. Citizens were strongly encouraged to limit non-essential travel outside their homes, including for work. People with symptoms (and all known contacts) were tested and quarantined. Our ability to contain the virus here will depend on when (or if) similar measures are taken. This thing is extremely contagious and I really doubt that the advice of "go about your daily lives and just wash your hands more often" will be sufficient in areas that have already seen multiple cases.
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It's important to note what China did to contain the virus. Public gathering places (such as special events and restaurants and movie theaters) were closed down across the country for extended periods. Citizens were strongly encouraged to limit non-essential travel outside their homes, including for work. People with symptoms (and all known contacts) were tested and quarantined. Our ability to contain the virus here will depend on when (or if) similar measures are taken. This thing is extremely contagious and I really doubt that the advice of "go about your daily lives and just wash your hands more often" will be sufficient in areas that have already seen multiple cases.
Agree. Good news is our population is only 20% the size of China. If this virus were going to take off exponentially, China would be the first place. The thing is, the actual spread is likely many multiples of what confirmed cases are. The good news is, that means the mortality rate is likely very small, maybe even as low as the flu. Bad news of course is that it's spread much further than it seems.
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The US is testing very few people so we really have no idea how bad this is. I am really glad that the virus isn’t killing kids. We are prepared to self quarantine being in a high risk group.
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Going to Italy in two weeks, so far no change of plans.
Gonna have to change that to pending discussion.
Flight from Rome to Sicily was cancelled. So trip is a bust. :)
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AA has cancelled flights into Milan thru April 25. We’re supposed to fly into Milan May 17....
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Off to Costa Rica next week.
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Just today booked flights to Alabama for a work trip next week. My mom is going to stay at my house while I'm gone to take care of the cats.
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We're due to go to a big city pop concert soon. I'd rather skip it but the rest of the family would lose their minds... ;)
Anyone stocking the pantry in case the gov't orders your area to stay home for a couple of weeks?
We have 3 weeks of supplies but I always do. Grew up in tornado alley and now live in hurricane prone area so I’ve needed those supplies more than a handful of times.
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Been following these charts closely since last week since I'm going to Belgium next week and it's not that far (in US kindest) from northern Italy. No real spread and non-active cases. The active cases overall are going down each days and only 2-3k new cases each day. If this thing was as bad as people were saying, I feel we would've saw more cases at this point.
Everyday I read and see the news, the problem seems to be getting exponentially worse. l would say it's every bit as bad as people were saying and worse than many people had been saying, who seemed to be downplaying it.
And, still the news gets worse. Just read this breaking news update:
WHO says coronavirus death rate is 3.4% globally, higher than previously thought
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/03/who-says-coronavirus-death-rate-is-3point4percent-globally-higher-than-previously-thought.html
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Been following these charts closely since last week since I'm going to Belgium next week and it's not that far (in US kindest) from northern Italy. No real spread and non-active cases. The active cases overall are going down each days and only 2-3k new cases each day. If this thing was as bad as people were saying, I feel we would've saw more cases at this point.
Everyday I read and see the news, the problem seems to be getting exponentially worse. l would say it's every bit as bad as people were saying and worse than many people had been saying, who seemed to be downplaying it.
And, still the news gets worse. Just read this breaking news update:
WHO says coronavirus death rate is 3.4% globally, higher than previously thought
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/03/who-says-coronavirus-death-rate-is-3point4percent-globally-higher-than-previously-thought.html
3.4% of people who were sick enough to be tested, we don't know how many people have already survived CV without even knowing. I have a strong feeling that my entire family (WA) has already "had" it, judging by our symptoms we had about 4 weeks ago. I think the Diamond Princess is the best real data point we have... and even that is skewed toward older persons aboard. Currently around 1% rate.
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Been following these charts closely since last week since I'm going to Belgium next week and it's not that far (in US kindest) from northern Italy. No real spread and non-active cases. The active cases overall are going down each days and only 2-3k new cases each day. If this thing was as bad as people were saying, I feel we would've saw more cases at this point.
Everyday I read and see the news, the problem seems to be getting exponentially worse. l would say it's every bit as bad as people were saying and worse than many people had been saying, who seemed to be downplaying it.
And, still the news gets worse. Just read this breaking news update:
WHO says coronavirus death rate is 3.4% globally, higher than previously thought
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/03/who-says-coronavirus-death-rate-is-3point4percent-globally-higher-than-previously-thought.html
3.4% of people who were sick enough to be tested, we don't know how many people have already survived CV without even knowing. I have a strong feeling that my entire family (WA) has already "had" it, judging by our symptoms we had about 4 weeks ago. I think the Diamond Princess is the best real data point we have... and even that is skewed toward older persons aboard. Currently around 1% rate.
They weren't all sick. I specifically read they've tested asymptomatic people. It's far far more likely your family had the regular flu, even if they had a flu shot, due to its prevalence. The vast majority of the Diamond Princess passengers that were active cases are still active and haven't recovered, so the death rate may be much higher. And while they might have been older on average, you wouldn't expect them to be in that bad of health if they are out on a cruise. I would like to see official figures on these things from healthcare authorities.
Before the updated higher fatality rate was announced by the WHO, Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and a member of the White House’s coronavirus task force said, “If you look at the people who have just come to the attention of the health authorities, that’s 2 to 2-and-a-half percent,” Fauci said. “But even if it goes down to 1 percent, that’s still very, very serious.”
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One co-worker is leaving on a cruise next week.
A couple of friends have had work-related projects canceled because of travel concerns.
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A couple cases rather near us were announced just in the past three days. My spouse’s work immediately canceled conferences and large gatherings. Expecting more of that in the next few business days.
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I wasn't going, but was pretty shocked SXSW was canceled.
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Now the CDC is recommending that anyone 60+ stay home. Naturally, I spent about 12 hours today on a series of buses with an intermission in the Chicago train station!
I did see a few people with masks. I did wash my hands a lot.
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My SO has to travel for work (medical) conferences sometimes and decided back in January she didn't want us traveling since I'm in a high-risk group. The only change we've made since then is she's now also keeping a distance, whenever possible, from friends and colleagues who have recently traveled, which constitutes a lot of people.
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I'm supposed to fly in 2.5 weeks for a work-related conference. It's a small company and they've decided to monitor the news and determine whether all 5 of us really need to go or whether just the 2 most important people (one of whom can drive) should attend.
I'm more concerned about governmental/societal impacts (like quarantines) than the actual illness, but I won't be at all disappointed if they tell me to stay home. We stocked our freezer/pantry earlier this week, just in case it starts to look like grocery shopping is a bad idea.
Conference was cancelled, so I'll no longer have to fly. I'm glad.
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Carnival cruise just changed their cancellation policy for people like me who booked a while ago but are concerned to go on their trip. I was to the point where I was only going to get a 25% refund, but now I am able to reschedule with a waiver for any time in the next year. I am so thankful they made this change... I was about to eat 6k! Now if I can actually get thru on their phone line...
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Been following these charts closely since last week since I'm going to Belgium next week and it's not that far (in US kindest) from northern Italy. No real spread and non-active cases. The active cases overall are going down each days and only 2-3k new cases each day. If this thing was as bad as people were saying, I feel we would've saw more cases at this point.
Everyday I read and see the news, the problem seems to be getting exponentially worse. l would say it's every bit as bad as people were saying and worse than many people had been saying, who seemed to be downplaying it.
And, still the news gets worse. Just read this breaking news update:
WHO says coronavirus death rate is 3.4% globally, higher than previously thought
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/03/who-says-coronavirus-death-rate-is-3point4percent-globally-higher-than-previously-thought.html
One thing to consider is we’re all used to hearing that “.1% (1/10th of 1%) die of the flu in USA”. That said, the regular flu mortality rate across the globe each year is much much higher
So when you Hear 3.4% and freak out, make sure to
Put it in context
It also seems more and more clear this was a weapon used virus by the Chinese no matter how much twitter wants to silence that for their investors.
The fallout from this could be enormous. Stay safe everyone. Lots of vitamin C and D as well
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My wife and I have a big trip planned for late May. Olympic peninsula, Oregon coast, NW California, then back up through the Cascades. Flying in and out of Seattle. Yesterday they announced community transmission cases in northern California, Oregon, and Washington. Fuck. We bought non-refundable plane tickets. Most of the lodging reservations and the rental car can be cancelled up to a week or so before the trip. I guess we'll see how things play out over the next month or two.
We're still about two months out from the point where we start losing our ability to cancel lodging, so we're still waiting to decide. Losing over $900 on the plane tickets would hurt, so we're delaying the decision as long as we reasonably can.
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I decided not to accompany DH to a conference in New Orleans at the end of March. But my job is a consultant and I have to be on-site, so on that front it's travel as usual.
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It also seems more and more clear this was a weapon used virus by the Chinese no matter how much twitter wants to silence that for their investors.
I definitely don't think that seems clear. On what are you basing this theory?
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[quote author=FrugalSaver link=topic=114504.msg2575811#msg2575811
It also seems more and more clear this was a weapon used virus by the Chinese no matter how much twitter wants to silence that for their investors.
[/quote]
Evidence? Or is that just a social media conspiracy theory?
Unless you have solid evidence you should not be spreading such stupidities. (And need a refresher on the forum rules, too - see rule 1 in particular.)
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It also seems more and more clear this was a weapon used virus by the Chinese no matter how much twitter wants to silence that for their investors.
I definitely don't think that seems clear. On what are you basing this theory?
Doesn’t seem clear to me either. Health scares tend to bring out paranoia and conspiracy theories.
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Been following these charts closely since last week since I'm going to Belgium next week and it's not that far (in US kindest) from northern Italy. No real spread and non-active cases. The active cases overall are going down each days and only 2-3k new cases each day. If this thing was as bad as people were saying, I feel we would've saw more cases at this point.
Everyday I read and see the news, the problem seems to be getting exponentially worse. l would say it's every bit as bad as people were saying and worse than many people had been saying, who seemed to be downplaying it.
And, still the news gets worse. Just read this breaking news update:
WHO says coronavirus death rate is 3.4% globally, higher than previously thought
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/03/who-says-coronavirus-death-rate-is-3point4percent-globally-higher-than-previously-thought.html
One thing to consider is we’re all used to hearing that “.1% (1/10th of 1%) die of the flu in USA”. That said, the regular flu mortality rate across the globe each year is much much higher
So when you Hear 3.4% and freak out, make sure to
Put it in context
It also seems more and more clear this was a weapon used virus by the Chinese no matter how much twitter wants to silence that for their investors.
The fallout from this could be enormous. Stay safe everyone. Lots of vitamin C and D as well
In regard to the fallout, someone posted a link to this article in another thread.
Systemic Healthcare Failure Due to #COVID19
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1236095180459003909.html
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Since this thread was started a week ago has anyone changed their US travel plans since last week There are more cases and more quarantined then a week ago in the US as well as overseas.
I'm skipping a conference in Houston in a couple weeks, but I didn't really want to attend it anyway.
Starting this past Monday, I've stopped shaking hands with people at meetings - "Let's do the elbow bump thing - I'm practicing for coronavirus" (Okay, it's more of a handy(ha!) excuse - I'd rather not pick up the flu or even a regular cold from these people anyway). Nearly 100% success rate, and even had one person offer to do the Chinese foot-bump thing instead - which I find even more fun!
https://nypost.com/2020/03/02/wuhan-shake-greeting-goes-viral-amid-coronavirus-outbreak/
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Been following these charts closely since last week since I'm going to Belgium next week and it's not that far (in US kindest) from northern Italy. No real spread and non-active cases. The active cases overall are going down each days and only 2-3k new cases each day. If this thing was as bad as people were saying, I feel we would've saw more cases at this point.
Everyday I read and see the news, the problem seems to be getting exponentially worse. l would say it's every bit as bad as people were saying and worse than many people had been saying, who seemed to be downplaying it.
And, still the news gets worse. Just read this breaking news update:
WHO says coronavirus death rate is 3.4% globally, higher than previously thought
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/03/who-says-coronavirus-death-rate-is-3point4percent-globally-higher-than-previously-thought.html
One thing to consider is we’re all used to hearing that “.1% (1/10th of 1%) die of the flu in USA”. That said, the regular flu mortality rate across the globe each year is much much higher
So when you Hear 3.4% and freak out, make sure to
Put it in context
It also seems more and more clear this was a weapon used virus by the Chinese no matter how much twitter wants to silence that for their investors.
The fallout from this could be enormous. Stay safe everyone. Lots of vitamin C and D as well
In regard to the fallout, someone posted a link to this article in another thread.
Systemic Healthcare Failure Due to #COVID19
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1236095180459003909.html
I 100% agree that this virus could have catastrophic effects on our healthcare system. I'm involved in local public health and have a public health background; if we get widespread cases in my area (like in many other areas), we'll run out of hospital beds very quickly. There's no doubt about it. Despite the naysayers who keep saying that it's not all that different from the flu, I fully believe that coronavirus is A Very Big Deal.
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One co-worker is leaving on a cruise next week.
You couldn't pay me to go on a cruise at this point.
My main concern is being a carrier. We are concerned about our 3 82-year-old parents, possible quarantine for 2-3 weeks, and/or being quarantined away from home with 2-3 weeks of hotel bills.
We are supposed to go to Minneapolis to Tucson in 3 weeks. The flight has a 4 hour layover in Seattle. We will not be doing a 4 hour layover in Seattle.
So Delta wants to charge the 3 of us $600 just to cancel our flights. They will charge more to reschedule and avoid the Seattle layover. The money for this alone makes my stomach turn.
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We are supposed to go Minneapolis to Vegas next weekend (13-16). We are not high risk. We would lose 700 in Delta tickets and 300 in a nonrefundable hotel. The other three hotel nights can be cancelled as late as Monday.
I'm open to advice.
I'm of two minds:
1. We are all getting this anyway, we are healthy, and we are going to hike so main exposure is on the plane, which has risk but we aren't going to be shaking hands or anything. And Americans are clearly not going to stop traveling so we're all screwed anyway.
2. We should eat the 1000$ and not travel since really all of us should probably not travel for awhile.
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We have had a Mexican Riviera Cruise booked for late March/Early April since December... terrible timing, right? We are long past the refund stage. We are still planning on going, but are open to canceling if things get really bad, we leave from LA. They have really ramped up the caution on cruises, there's a physical of sorts to get on board and they will deny boarding to anyone who has traveled to Asia or a few other places within 2 weeks of departure. I guess I'm a little worried about it, but at the same time I am in NW Washington way closer to actual cases of COVID-19 in BC than I would be in the current situation in LA. And there are lots of people from BC that shop in the US Boarder towns on a regular basis...
I think most cruise lines are not giving refunds but offering you a cruise up to 18 months in the future so it might be something you could look into.
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I guess we now know the answer of which would get people to stop flying everywhere, a climate emergency or a pandemic.
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Holland America has altered its cancellation policy:
https://www.hollandamerica.com/en_US/news/2020-press-releases/news-03062020-BookWithConfidence.html
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Actually people have cut back on flying. Flights that were mostly booked are showing only 20% occupancy because so many people have canceled.
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My wife was going to a work conference in two weeks in the SF Bay Area that has now been canceled. She also had a conference next week in Denver but her company has issued a blanket moratorium on all nonessential travel, so she isn’t going to attend anymore.
My mom was planning to attend two conferences in San Diego next week that have both now been canceled.
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We are supposed to go Minneapolis to Vegas next weekend (13-16). We are not high risk. We would lose 700 in Delta tickets and 300 in a nonrefundable hotel. The other three hotel nights can be cancelled as late as Monday.
I'm open to advice.
I'm of two minds:
1. We are all getting this anyway, we are healthy, and we are going to hike so main exposure is on the plane, which has risk but we aren't going to be shaking hands or anything. And Americans are clearly not going to stop traveling so we're all screwed anyway.
2. We should eat the 1000$ and not travel since really all of us should probably not travel for awhile.
Given that neither Minneapolis nor Vegas have reported community spread, I’d have no issues going on the trip. I’d just wash my hands often and make a conscious effort to avoid touching my face.
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We have FL, CO (two separate trips), MI, and OR trips planned between now and mid-July. That's about eight weeks of travel.
We can cancel if we need to.
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There’s a case in Vegas not travel related which means more people have it.
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Been following these charts closely since last week since I'm going to Belgium next week and it's not that far (in US kindest) from northern Italy. No real spread and non-active cases. The active cases overall are going down each days and only 2-3k new cases each day. If this thing was as bad as people were saying, I feel we would've saw more cases at this point.
Everyday I read and see the news, the problem seems to be getting exponentially worse. l would say it's every bit as bad as people were saying and worse than many people had been saying, who seemed to be downplaying it.
And, still the news gets worse. Just read this breaking news update:
WHO says coronavirus death rate is 3.4% globally, higher than previously thought
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/03/who-says-coronavirus-death-rate-is-3point4percent-globally-higher-than-previously-thought.html
One thing to consider is we’re all used to hearing that “.1% (1/10th of 1%) die of the flu in USA”. That said, the regular flu mortality rate across the globe each year is much much higher
So when you Hear 3.4% and freak out, make sure to
Put it in context
It also seems more and more clear this was a weapon used virus by the Chinese no matter how much twitter wants to silence that for their investors.
The fallout from this could be enormous. Stay safe everyone. Lots of vitamin C and D as well
Clear based on what?
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That's some tin foil hat shit right der...
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I play a lot of high level bridge (major national tournaments etc). There is a major tournament coming up on the East Coast in 2 weeks and amazingly they haven't cancelled it. As much as I think the media is way overblowing this thing, I'm in shock they are still going forward with this tournament. Here are the following factors at play. These tournaments generally have anywhere from 10-15K people.
Avg American Bridge player is ~ 70 yrs old. Mortality rate for this age is as high as 15%. Sure, major tournaments skew slightly younger but probably still ~ 60 as the mean age.
These tournaments are heavily international due to hired professionals, hundreds of players from everywhere, mostly Europe and Asia.
Playing environment is basically the worst imaginable for this disease -- close proximity to other players, and you're playing with cards that others have touched.
Getting there -- obvious exposure to the disease in travel.
I'm in shock they're going through with this, it makes a cruise ship seem safe. This could be extremely bad publicity for the sport and American league if things go South. This is one trip I'm cancelling.
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My grandpa plays competitive bridge (no longer at the national level but he was for awhile). I concur that I'm shocked it wasn't cancelled due to the age of the average bridge player.
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Been following these charts closely since last week since I'm going to Belgium next week and it's not that far (in US kindest) from northern Italy. No real spread and non-active cases. The active cases overall are going down each days and only 2-3k new cases each day. If this thing was as bad as people were saying, I feel we would've saw more cases at this point.
Everyday I read and see the news, the problem seems to be getting exponentially worse. l would say it's every bit as bad as people were saying and worse than many people had been saying, who seemed to be downplaying it.
And, still the news gets worse. Just read this breaking news update:
WHO says coronavirus death rate is 3.4% globally, higher than previously thought
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/03/who-says-coronavirus-death-rate-is-3point4percent-globally-higher-than-previously-thought.html
One thing to consider is we’re all used to hearing that “.1% (1/10th of 1%) die of the flu in USA”. That said, the regular flu mortality rate across the globe each year is much much higher
So when you Hear 3.4% and freak out, make sure to
Put it in context
It also seems more and more clear this was a weapon used virus by the Chinese no matter how much twitter wants to silence that for their investors.
The fallout from this could be enormous. Stay safe everyone. Lots of vitamin C and D as well
The stats that you're quoting are all over the place.
Typical flu:
- 9.3-50m Americans get it depending on the R0. Typically 0.6-1.4
- Generally only contagious when symptomatic.
- Lets use the high end so 15-20% of the population get the flu. This is the penetration rate.
- The hospitalization rate averages about 0.3% get hospitalised.
- 0.03% of people who get the flu die. In a high year that goes to 0.[/li][/list]
COVID-19 (assuming no mass lock downs or closures)
- R0 of 2.4-3.6
- penetration rate of 25-40% (with some estimates as high as 60%).
- Hospitalization = 12-40%
- Intensive care/ ICU = 3-10%
- Death 0.5-3.5%
So compared to 10-20k deaths in a typical flu season, you're potentially looking at a range of numbers much, much higher, with far greater pressure on health services. All of which is somewhat unknown. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-italy-doctors-intensive-care-deaths-a9384356.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-italy-doctors-intensive-care-deaths-a9384356.html)
Oh and because its highly contagious a good team of your health team catch it too and end up either out of work or in beds. (skip to "presumed hospital-related transmission and infection - https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2761044 (https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2761044))
All of the flu stats and treatment/behavior is pretty well known and understood. All of the COVID-19 numbers are open to revision and debate and given you will only know the true numbers post the event are unknown.
Take the stats out of Korea: https://www.cdc.go.kr/board/board.es?mid=a30402000000&bid=0030 (https://www.cdc.go.kr/board/board.es?mid=a30402000000&bid=0030)
Simple Math says the fatality rate is 44/6767 = 0.65%
But given it takes ~10 days from diagnosis to death, you actually shoudl be using the case number from a week ago so closer to 2,500. Which means your fatality rate is closer to the Chinese figure of 1.8%.
So totally nothing like flu would be the conclusion. An indication of the seriousness, would be an emergency FED cut.
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I was just today invited to an event in British Columbia at the end of this month. It's an annual event meant to recognize outstanding volunteers in the Pacific Northwest, related to a hobby I enjoy very much. It's a great honor to be invited and ordinarily I would jump at the chance. I haven't given them a response yet but my thinking is basically "sure, if the border is actually open in three weeks and gatherings of more than a dozen people aren't prohibited I'll be there."
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I canceled a work trip next week, and convinced my boss not to travel either. I think it's a very concerning situation that people in the US aren't taking seriously enough yet.
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Now that my work trip for this coming weekend has been cancelled, the next thing I need to decide is whether to take my group of Girl Scouts on the trip we were planning to attend at the end of this month.
Factors that make it high-risk:
- There will be 300-400 people there. We'll all be in the same room for entertainment, meals, etc.
- This isn't outdoorsy camping, we'll be in lodges with 20-40 girls sleeping in a room
- I have young girls (7-8 yrs old), so while I can discuss hygiene & not touching your mouth until I'm blue in the face, it's iffy.
Mitigating factors:
- All the girls live within our county. While they attend a bunch of different schools, it really isn't THAT much different than going to school.
I'm really on the fence. We'll see how things evolve in the next few weeks, I guess. Maybe it will be cancelled and then I won't have the pressure of having to make the call! (Most people in my area see this as no big deal, so I expect some pushback if I cancel. And if I decide not to go, the troop won't have enough chaperones to go.)
ETA: While I realize the risk to kids is low, I have asthma and one of the other girls who's attending lives with an elderly family member on oxygen. One of the other girls also seems to come from a family with health troubles. And I also just generally don't want us to be vectors for disease spread in the community.
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We were and are considering cancelling our trip next week to Florida. But now that we have it in our metro and our state (albeit, across the state) I'm not sure we'll cancel. Plus, we personally know many people travelling to much more infected areas (CA) and so if someone is bringing it back here, it's more likely to be them. Especially because they are not taking it seriously, and we are.
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Conference I had planned to skip is now cancelled anyway.
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Been following these charts closely since last week since I'm going to Belgium next week and it's not that far (in US kindest) from northern Italy. No real spread and non-active cases. The active cases overall are going down each days and only 2-3k new cases each day. If this thing was as bad as people were saying, I feel we would've saw more cases at this point.
Everyday I read and see the news, the problem seems to be getting exponentially worse. l would say it's every bit as bad as people were saying and worse than many people had been saying, who seemed to be downplaying it.
And, still the news gets worse. Just read this breaking news update:
WHO says coronavirus death rate is 3.4% globally, higher than previously thought
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/03/who-says-coronavirus-death-rate-is-3point4percent-globally-higher-than-previously-thought.html
One thing to consider is we’re all used to hearing that “.1% (1/10th of 1%) die of the flu in USA”. That said, the regular flu mortality rate across the globe each year is much much higher
So when you Hear 3.4% and freak out, make sure to
Put it in context
It also seems more and more clear this was a weapon used virus by the Chinese no matter how much twitter wants to silence that for their investors.
The fallout from this could be enormous. Stay safe everyone. Lots of vitamin C and D as well
Simple Math says the fatality rate is 44/6767 = 0.65%
But given it takes ~10 days from diagnosis to death, you actually shoudl be using the case number from a week ago so closer to 2,500. Which means your fatality rate is closer to the Chinese figure of 1.8%.
When you take the "active" cases out of the mix and look at only the closed cases, those which have either recovered or died, the fatality rate looks a lot worse. It's also more accurate, because when you're including "active" cases, you're including many people who will eventually die, but you just haven't waited long enough. So, doing a calculation on cases which have been closed will take the unknowns out of the calculation.
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/coronavirus-bring-it-on-mutha-fucka/msg2575038/#msg2575038
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its mildly amusing that everyone has all of a sudden become an armchair expert on infectious disease statistics. The misinterpretation of statistics is just mind boggling.
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its mildly amusing that everyone has all of a sudden become an armchair expert on infectious disease statistics. The misinterpretation of statistics is just mind boggling.
It’d be nice if everyone would just refer to https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
They’ve got the death rate of closed cases and it’s updated daily. You can even look at the graph of how it has improved over time. We’ve come a long way from the ~40% death rate at the start of February to the ~6% death rate today.
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its mildly amusing that everyone has all of a sudden become an armchair expert on infectious disease statistics. The misinterpretation of statistics is just mind boggling.
It’d be nice if everyone would just refer to https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
They’ve got the death rate of closed cases and it’s updated daily. You can even look at the graph of how it has improved over time. We’ve come a long way from the ~40% death rate at the start of February to the ~6% death rate today.
I find this one very accessible while having good granularity to the data.
https://covid19info.live/
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its mildly amusing that everyone has all of a sudden become an armchair expert on infectious disease statistics. The misinterpretation of statistics is just mind boggling.
It’d be nice if everyone would just refer to https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
They’ve got the death rate of closed cases and it’s updated daily. You can even look at the graph of how it has improved over time. We’ve come a long way from the ~40% death rate at the start of February to the ~6% death rate today.
I've been referencing that. Interestingly, the number of South Korea recovered cases dropped by 5 from a couple days ago, deaths increased, so the resulting fatality rate among closed cases increased by several percent.
It seems odd that the number of recovered cases would drop. Did they have a relapse? Reinfection? Just incorrect stats?
Edit: I'm going with incorrect stats. One of the other references still shows 135 recovered, not 130.
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its mildly amusing that everyone has all of a sudden become an armchair expert on infectious disease statistics. The misinterpretation of statistics is just mind boggling.
It’d be nice if everyone would just refer to https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
They’ve got the death rate of closed cases and it’s updated daily. You can even look at the graph of how it has improved over time. We’ve come a long way from the ~40% death rate at the start of February to the ~6% death rate today.
I find this one very accessible while having good granularity to the data.
https://covid19info.live/
Here's another one;
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html?fbclid=IwAR0hJ4Ld8p2YLUee6mx4UockqkpTzvMwaUgGo4czAqJRJY2yiEzqK5Iv-4k#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
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It also seems more and more clear this was a weapon used virus by the Chinese no matter how much twitter wants to silence that for their investors.
You sound like my parents.
That is not a compliment.
Edit: fixing reference, it was unclear initially.
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I have no intention of travelling internationally because the Australian dollar is crippled right now but if these travel deals keep getting better I might change my mind. A weak tourism sector with good discounts would definitely incentivise me. I would just avoid Italy and China as destinations.
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Just cancelled a cruise that's supposed to leave a week from today. I really don't want to risk getting quarantined at the mercy of the government. Or be the first person to bring it to my state.
It's really disappointing though - we've had this trip planned for more than a year and it was supposed to be with my mom (who lives in a different state). I guess I can plan another time to see her in the next few months...
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Finally was able to cancel our cruise today too. We were to cruise the Mexican Riviera on the 28th. Thankful that the cruise line has temporarily changed their cancellation policy and we will get a Future Cruise Credit to use before March 2021. We are taking a loss on our airline tickets though... Alaska Airlines saver tickets.
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I have no intention of travelling internationally because the Australian dollar is crippled right now but if these travel deals keep getting better I might change my mind. A weak tourism sector with good discounts would definitely incentivise me. I would just avoid Italy and China as destinations.
I agree travel deals are going to be great for some time, but what makes you think this thing is going to be constrained to just Italy and China by the time your travel comes around? If you look at the exponential growth in Italy alone (great chart here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_outbreak_in_Italy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_outbreak_in_Italy)), this virus has the potential to explode anywhere at any time. I'm not saying don't travel, but it would be hubristic to think that the virus doesn't have a good chance of having a strong presence in any given country if you're planning travel further out than a month from now.
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I have no intention of travelling internationally because the Australian dollar is crippled right now but if these travel deals keep getting better I might change my mind. A weak tourism sector with good discounts would definitely incentivise me. I would just avoid Italy and China as destinations.
I agree travel deals are going to be great for some time, but what makes you think this thing is going to be constrained to just Italy and China by the time your travel comes around? If you look at the exponential growth in Italy alone (great chart here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_outbreak_in_Italy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_outbreak_in_Italy)), this virus has the potential to explode anywhere at any time. I'm not saying don't travel, but it would be hubristic to think that the virus doesn't have a good chance of having a strong presence in any given country if you're planning travel further out than a month from now.
This. The situation is changing so quickly. Just today, Israel imposed a 14-day quarantine on all travelers arriving from any country. I would also expect more widespread closures across Europe. And there's no good reason to be on a cruise ship right now.
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My husband was supposed to go to a conference in Nashville that just got cancelled (two days after the deadline for cancelling the hotel with a full refund). Good news is, he'll now be home for our anniversary!
I have a short trip to Michigan at the end of the month. Southwest airfare and staying with friends of friends, so no harm done as long as I cancel more than 10 minutes before the flight takes off. So taking it slow.
Really starting to get worried about my trip to the Caucasus in early May, for which I owe the balance of a tour in 5 days.
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We're currently planning for a trip to South Carolina in June. We can cancel the hotel reservation without any costs fairly easily all the way until 3 days before the trip, and Southwest is great about cancellations as well. So we'll give it a couple months and see how things look.
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Me again with the fall wedding. I just booked one leg of our honeymoon flights the other day (we are going hiking in CO): $47pp nonstop from a major airport in the South. I've still got the return flight to book (probably to NYC), and one more for the bachelorette (also in the South). When all is said and done, I might be able to have gotten all 5 flights for $500pp, which hopefully won't be more than $200pp out of pocket as I'm using CC signup points.
Orrrr everything could be canceled. So I'm either a genius or an idiot, haven't figured that out yet:P
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Me again with the fall wedding. I just booked one leg of our honeymoon flights the other day (we are going hiking in CO): $47pp nonstop from a major airport in the South. I've still got the return flight to book (probably to NYC), and one more for the bachelorette (also in the South). When all is said and done, I might be able to have gotten all 5 flights for $500pp, which hopefully won't be more than $200pp out of pocket as I'm using CC signup points.
Orrrr everything could be canceled. So I'm either a genius or an idiot, haven't figured that out yet:P
Yeah there are some amazing deals on flights right now.
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One of my running buddies told me that I should book my summer trip now!
I booked my summer trip in October. Non-refundable. So, yeah, I paid $700 a ticket.
Hey look, prices are still the same per person. No biggie.
For awhile I was thinking about heading to Great Wolf Lodge in LA mid week spring break. We went last year, it was FUN. It's actually much more reasonably priced than normal.
However, it's not cheaper this year compared to last year ($180/night).
And...corona. But really, we are staycationing, spring cleaning, and looking after our dog post-surgery.
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We have a Caribbean cruise coming up in mid-April. Cruise line has eased its cancellation policy so we can wait until a week before to make a decision.
I'm on the fence. Part of me says not to worry and just go. Another part is saying don't be an idiot, just reschedule it for the fall.
I live in a very touristy area so... I feel like I'll end up being exposed eventually anyway.
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Actually, my husband and I were going to go tour Europe again in the fall, but he is not very keen on that. So instead, we are going to take a road trip with our camper across the US like we did 2 years ago. We don't usually stay near any big cities and our interactions with people would probably be more limited than if we stayed home. Looking forward to it!
Miss Prim
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It is increasingly likely that our trip to Italy in *May* is toast. Sigh.
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Nah. I’m not gonna postpone any travel I do have, but shit on the ground could potentially get really bad. No reason to go looking for problems.
I think the whole thing is being way overblown by media hysteria, but we'll see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39A7Tr-H29E&fbclid=IwAR1-OZwF2JTRFliJ7-BElpkzF8ekFOKc7XeTr7wnRlJsw71dscogTXZtCcU&app=desktop
That could easily be. But since Dr. Drew doesn’t even seem to have a handle of what the actual definition of a pandemic is, I’m gonna take a pass on considering him an authority figure on this.
I like to quickly admit when I'm wrong, and I 100% admit I was wrong on this one. I think Dr Drew is way off base. This thing is way more serious than I realized, I've been researching this more than any sane person should and the numbers are terrifying. Perhaps I was trying to calm my own fears but I used a poor source.
Here is a summary of what I've come to understand:
1) Attack rate is ~ 2.5. Flu is 1.3. Mortality rate ranges from 0.5-3% depending on healthcare infrastructure, age, and overall health condition. Flu by comparison is 0.1. So a magnitude of 5-30 times more. 3) This is airborne and is viral from asymptomatic infections. That is, someone who is infected with no symptoms can pass it by simply breathing. 4) we're seeing exponential increases -- right now the numbers are relatively low, but that's like a calm before the storm. Unfortunately people don't wake up to it until the exponential curve really hits us. 5) this is going to be long term, it won't go away quickly. 6) we need to start social distancing ourselves as much as reasonable right now, to try to reduce the exposure and buy us time to develop vaccine. Obviously with reason, the economy must continue. 7) especially those who are 60+ or in poor health should try to limit any exposure to crowded areas
Good reads/watches:
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca?fbclid=IwAR0Ja43PWLfuzGcrRz9e7FDaoQ8zIOklOD4xhJ1kTzcEW0hFex4t33ycGbI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3URhJx0NSw&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR0jZ2QLHDD--p2d2RZFtbM51h25mYDNMnVE--3ryI_6QKEfzMKvdtEP2XM
I am cancelling any trips that require flying in the next several months.
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Nah. I’m not gonna postpone any travel I do have, but shit on the ground could potentially get really bad. No reason to go looking for problems.
I think the whole thing is being way overblown by media hysteria, but we'll see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39A7Tr-H29E&fbclid=IwAR1-OZwF2JTRFliJ7-BElpkzF8ekFOKc7XeTr7wnRlJsw71dscogTXZtCcU&app=desktop
That could easily be. But since Dr. Drew doesn’t even seem to have a handle of what the actual definition of a pandemic is, I’m gonna take a pass on considering him an authority figure on this.
I like to quickly admit when I'm wrong, and I 100% admit I was wrong on this one. I think Dr Drew is way off base. This thing is way more serious than I realized, I've been researching this more than any sane person should and the numbers are terrifying. Perhaps I was trying to calm my own fears but I used a poor source.
Here is a summary of what I've come to understand:
1) Attack rate is ~ 2.5. Flu is 1.3. Mortality rate ranges from 0.5-3% depending on healthcare infrastructure, age, and overall health condition. Flu by comparison is 0.1. So a magnitude of 5-30 times more. 3) This is airborne and is viral from asymptomatic infections. That is, someone who is infected with no symptoms can pass it by simply breathing. 4) we're seeing exponential increases -- right now the numbers are relatively low, but that's like a calm before the storm. Unfortunately people don't wake up to it until the exponential curve really hits us. 5) this is going to be long term, it won't go away quickly. 6) we need to start social distancing ourselves as much as reasonable right now, to try to reduce the exposure and buy us time to develop vaccine. Obviously with reason, the economy must continue. 7) especially those who are 60+ or in poor health should try to limit any exposure to crowded areas
Good reads/watches:
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca?fbclid=IwAR0Ja43PWLfuzGcrRz9e7FDaoQ8zIOklOD4xhJ1kTzcEW0hFex4t33ycGbI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3URhJx0NSw&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR0jZ2QLHDD--p2d2RZFtbM51h25mYDNMnVE--3ryI_6QKEfzMKvdtEP2XM
I am cancelling any trips that require flying in the next several months.
Your #3 states this is airborne transmission, but I believe it is classified as droplet transmission (obviously I don't think anything is "certain" at this point).
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/infection-control/control-recommendations.html
From the CDC link above:
Mode of transmission: Early reports suggest person-to-person transmission most commonly happens during close exposure to a person infected with COVID-19, primarily via respiratory droplets produced when the infected person coughs or sneezes. Droplets can land in the mouths, noses, or eyes of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs of those within close proximity. The contribution of small respirable particles, sometimes called aerosols or droplet nuclei, to close proximity transmission is currently uncertain. However, airborne transmission from person-to-person over long distances is unlikely.
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Perhaps they aren't sure yet if it's truly airborn. This expert claims it is based on most recent science from within the last couple days:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3URhJx0NSw&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR1P5r2yjzFBnzy0gjmzxo7b6-2Uk0vBOD_x5OK0zEKXaYZtiSuJqn3DkhA
Start at 8 min in, though there are several other parts in the interview he mentions airborn. He claims the reason it spread throughout the cruise ship so quickly is due to the air circulation in all the rooms of the same air.
If you go to 44 min in he talks about how washing your hands likely does nothing, as this is almost entirely spread through the air. The whole thing is a good listen.
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Perhaps they aren't sure yet if it's truly airborn. This expert claims it is based on most recent science from within the last couple days:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3URhJx0NSw&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR1P5r2yjzFBnzy0gjmzxo7b6-2Uk0vBOD_x5OK0zEKXaYZtiSuJqn3DkhA
Start at 8 min in, though there are several other parts in the interview he mentions airborn. He claims the reason it spread throughout the cruise ship so quickly is due to the air circulation in all the rooms of the same air.
If you go to 44 min in he talks about how washing your hands likely does nothing, as this is almost entirely spread through the air. The whole thing is a good listen.
You should wash your hands because it also appears to be spread via fomites (surfaces, clothing, etc.). If you touch something that an infected person has coughed or sneezed on recently and then touch your own eyes, nose, or mouth, the virus now has an entry point. Estimates I’ve seen suggest that the virus remains active for a few hours on surfaces.
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Perhaps they aren't sure yet if it's truly airborn. This expert claims it is based on most recent science from within the last couple days:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3URhJx0NSw&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR1P5r2yjzFBnzy0gjmzxo7b6-2Uk0vBOD_x5OK0zEKXaYZtiSuJqn3DkhA
Start at 8 min in, though there are several other parts in the interview he mentions airborn. He claims the reason it spread throughout the cruise ship so quickly is due to the air circulation in all the rooms of the same air.
If you go to 44 min in he talks about how washing your hands likely does nothing, as this is almost entirely spread through the air. The whole thing is a good listen.
You should wash your hands because it also appears to be spread via fomites (surfaces, clothing, etc.). If you touch something that an infected person has coughed or sneezed on recently and then touch your own eyes, nose, or mouth, the virus now has an entry point. Estimates I’ve seen suggest that the virus remains active for a few hours on surfaces.
Only a few hours? Is that an update to previous information? I'd been seeing that it is believed to be able to survive up to a week on hard surfaces. This article on studies of coronaviruses states that it can be just hours, but up to 9 days, depending on temp, surface, etc.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/coronaviruses-how-long-can-they-survive-on-surfaces#How-long-do-coronaviruses-persist?
I'm basically considering any public hard surface I touch to be more likely than not contaminated at this point (I do live in a place with community spread cases).
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Perhaps they aren't sure yet if it's truly airborn. This expert claims it is based on most recent science from within the last couple days:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3URhJx0NSw&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR1P5r2yjzFBnzy0gjmzxo7b6-2Uk0vBOD_x5OK0zEKXaYZtiSuJqn3DkhA
Start at 8 min in, though there are several other parts in the interview he mentions airborn. He claims the reason it spread throughout the cruise ship so quickly is due to the air circulation in all the rooms of the same air.
If you go to 44 min in he talks about how washing your hands likely does nothing, as this is almost entirely spread through the air. The whole thing is a good listen.
You should wash your hands because it also appears to be spread via fomites (surfaces, clothing, etc.). If you touch something that an infected person has coughed or sneezed on recently and then touch your own eyes, nose, or mouth, the virus now has an entry point. Estimates I’ve seen suggest that the virus remains active for a few hours on surfaces.
Only a few hours? Is that an update to previous information? I'd been seeing that it is believed to be able to survive up to a week on hard surfaces. This article on studies of coronaviruses states that it can be just hours, but up to 9 days, depending on temp, surface, etc.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/coronaviruses-how-long-can-they-survive-on-surfaces#How-long-do-coronaviruses-persist?
I'm basically considering any public hard surface I touch to be more likely than not contaminated at this point (I do live in a place with community spread cases).
I was being very conservative in response to a claim that only airborne transmission is involved. Best to assume that it survives on fomites for much longer, although 9 days seems exceptionally long.
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You should wash your hands because it also appears to be spread via fomites (surfaces, clothing, etc.). If you touch something that an infected person has coughed or sneezed on recently and then touch your own eyes, nose, or mouth, the virus now has an entry point. Estimates I’ve seen suggest that the virus remains active for a few hours on surfaces.
Yes I had read the same (actually last days days irrc). However, Michael Osterholm who is a top epidemiologist and infectious disease expert questions this in that interview above. He seems to indicate that spread is happening almost exclusively through the air (~ at the 44 min). He goes on to say that washing your hands is good practice to protect against most strains and the flu, but that it doesn't appear to protect us much if at all from this strain.
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You should wash your hands because it also appears to be spread via fomites (surfaces, clothing, etc.). If you touch something that an infected person has coughed or sneezed on recently and then touch your own eyes, nose, or mouth, the virus now has an entry point. Estimates I’ve seen suggest that the virus remains active for a few hours on surfaces.
Yes I had read the same (actually last days days irrc). However, Michael Osterholm who is a top epidemiologist and infectious disease expert questions this in that interview above. He seems to indicate that spread is happening almost exclusively through the air (~ at the 44 min). He goes on to say that washing your hands is good practice to protect against most strains and the flu, but that it doesn't appear to protect us much if at all from this strain.
I think he's the only person making that claim that I've seen. I'll keep washing my hands.
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I'll keep washing my hands.
Absolutely, me too. Just thought it was interesting, and an excellent interview.
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Wife and I (healthy 40 year olds) are supposed to fly to Orlando Saturday, and meet my sister/brother-in-law/niece/nephew and Mom and Dad (early 70s, good health) to go to Disney World for a couple days and then to my Mom and Dads house in Ft Myers area for another 3 days.
My wife has had anxiety over going for over a week now about the flight and germs at Disney. She has been pressured by coworkers not to go who say if she brings the virus back the small doctors office would be closed, they wouldn’t be able to work, wouldn’t be paid, and couldn’t pay their bills. She was also questioned by her employer about where she’s been going and when and the possibility if she should be allowed at work when she gets back. She is also worried about being quarantined out of state and missing work, and pressured by her family not to go. My Mom looks forward to this trip once per year, and she said this is the last time she will go to Disney with us. My wife has been torn with what to do, hard time sleeping, and finally decided she is staying back. My Mom understands, but is crushed.
I haven’t made a final decision yet, and still could go and have a good time with my Mom, Dad, sister, and niece/nephew who all still plan to go. And make my Mom feel much better than if both my wife and I didn’t go. Her Mom and two sister didn’t live much longer than she has at her age. I am not as worried about the virus as my wife. In the unlikely event I would get it, I would have to accept the consequences including being quarantined out of state.
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We cancelled honeymoon to San Francisco and PNW.
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Several meetings have been cancelled, and all non-essential travel has been stopped by most hospitals until the epidemic wanes. I think that is prudent. Unless you physically need to be somewhere for time-sensitive or critical reasons, it’s a good idea to wait. Especially if you are in close contact with an elderly or medically infirm person on a regular basis.
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Conference I was scheduled to attend next week was cancelled earlier today.
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https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/03/11/homeland-security-acting-secretary-chad-f-wolf-s-statement-presidential-proclamation?fbclid=IwAR0G8MUJP3LtRg8VxXwwkWuW3Kq4Cc6xjaj8heeTpNoMe8vuj_wiVE64C3M
Today President Donald J. Trump signed a Presidential Proclamation, which suspends the entry of most foreign nationals who have been in certain European countries at any point during the 14 days prior to their scheduled arrival to the United States. These countries, known as the Schengen Area, include: Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland. This does not apply to legal permanent residents, (generally) immediate family members of U.S. citizens, and other individuals who are identified in the proclamation.
I am not sure what consequences this has....this proclamation leaves more questions open than it gives answers...
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I can't leave South Korea. I also can't go to any off-base restaurants or public gatherings of more than 20 people. No buses, no trains, no airplanes. All permanent change of station moves to and from Korea (with a few exceptions) are suspended for the next 60 days. Nobody is allowed to come here or leave to attend conferences or training. No taking vacation outside of Korea, and the restrictions listed above precludes any vacations in-country either unless you're just going to stay home. My son's school has been shut down for two weeks so far. I was planning on sending my family home to California next month for a couple weeks, but the airline cancelled their flight.
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Yes, I was due to fly from Hong Kong where I live to the US for 6 weeks, see family and host a bunch of art/community dinners across the country. Instead I plan on working on my places in Athens. Keeping an eye on things in Greece with no plans to visit tourist sites, but so far they look to have things manageable.
Hong Kong through intensive hygiene, closed schools and canceled events, as well as experience with the devastating effects of SARS with individuals' sense of responsibility to the community has beaten back the first wave of the disease. Even though our incompetent and unelected government refused to completely close the borders with China.
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I travel frequently for work and we've been grounded since late February, at least through March. I can see this going easily into April as well. I've chosen to work from home in lieu of going to the office, because it just doesn't make sense to risk it.
As an epidemiologist, I would encourage any and everyone with travel plans which would bring you into contact with more than 20 people at a given time to cancel those if they're happening over the next few weeks. I would caution not to fall victim to a sunk cost fallacy - yes, it absolutely sucks to miss out on a trip for which you have already paid - but the money was paid in the past and the decision is today. If the stories coming out of northern Italy can be believed, difficult decisions are being made as to who to intubate and who not to intubate because they lack the resources and personnel to intubate everyone who needs it. Social distancing - especially at this point - is critical. This is officially a pandemic, and the CDC has published excellent guidelines for community mitigation of pandemics:
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/rr/rr6601a1.htm#_blank?te=1&nl=morning-briefing&emc=edit_NN_p_20200312§ion=backStory&campaign_id=9&instance_id=16677&segment_id=22121&user_id=b177efc866c926eddf3c1f33cd3bf9d1®i_id=72974259on=backStory (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/rr/rr6601a1.htm#_blank?te=1&nl=morning-briefing&emc=edit_NN_p_20200312§ion=backStory&campaign_id=9&instance_id=16677&segment_id=22121&user_id=b177efc866c926eddf3c1f33cd3bf9d1®i_id=72974259on=backStory)
Stay safe out there everyone.
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DW and I had plans to vacation in San Juan in May. But now I'm apprehensive especially given the cruise ship culture there. Nothing booked yet.
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Had tentative plans for cruise...definitely not happening. We'll stay in state for the most part.
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I would caution not to fall victim to a sunk cost fallacy - yes, it absolutely sucks to miss out on a trip for which you have already paid - but the money was paid in the past and the decision is today.
I don't think future travel falls under the sunk cost fallacy. Yes, you paid for it in the past, but your travel is in the future. Anybody saying "I paid so-and-so for the travel so I'm going" is falling prey to the fallacy, but most people are sacrificing the future travel, which is not a sunk cost.
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Just cancelled my husband's flight to see his mom in Florida two days from now (per his request -- he's working and I'm FIREd, so I'm trying to make myself useful). He agonized over the decision for a couple of weeks, but it became more and more clear that it would be silly to go. Why risk picking up the virus himself on a plane and potentially taking it to his 60+ year old mom and stepdad, not to mention others? And they wouldn't have been able to go out and do the things they usually enjoy doing anyway. He's also concerned about the possibility of being quarantined or otherwise stuck if flights are shut down.
In case this is helpful for anyone else... his flight there was on Delta, and his return flight was on Alaska. I cancelled his Delta flight online, expecting not to see a cancellation fee per their website's updates on cancellations due to coronavirus. No luck. So I called Delta, and after nearly 2 hours on hold, I was told that he does in fact get a credit for the full cost of his flight -- it just doesn't show up online. With the ticket number from the cancellation, he can call to book a new flight (can't do it online) between now and January 1, 2021. So if anyone else is in the same boat, don't give up! Maybe we'll get to use the credit for a Christmas visit. I'll work on the Alaska flight tomorrow... 2 hours on hold is plenty for one day.
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I'm now actually thinking of travelling somewhere here semi-remote to get away from people. A long solo backpack or just a house rental where I don't need to be in daily contact with people who are in daily contact with lots of people. Roommate still works and is involved with social activities I can't control. He's moving out at end of April but lots can happen between now and then. BF is FIREd but has a sports related side gig and around a lot of people too - at least until it gets cancelled.
Not the worst idea, especially if you can get there via private vehicle and can bring plenty of food and necessities with you.
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I'm now actually thinking of travelling somewhere here semi-remote to get away from people. A long solo backpack or just a house rental where I don't need to be in daily contact with people who are in daily contact with lots of people. Roommate still works and is involved with social activities I can't control. He's moving out at end of April but lots can happen between now and then. BF is FIREd but has a sports related side gig and around a lot of people too - at least until it gets cancelled.
Not the worst idea, especially if you can get there via private vehicle and can bring plenty of food and necessities with you.
I can! I just rented an SUV (bad girl!) for a month I pick up tomorrow ($517/month from Hertz all inclusive) so I can go anywhere and camp if I want.
Except New Mexico State Parks those are now closed through 4/9
Plenty of BLM and NF land to pick from though.
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I'm now actually thinking of travelling somewhere here semi-remote to get away from people. A long solo backpack or just a house rental where I don't need to be in daily contact with people who are in daily contact with lots of people. Roommate still works and is involved with social activities I can't control. He's moving out at end of April but lots can happen between now and then. BF is FIREd but has a sports related side gig and around a lot of people too - at least until it gets cancelled.
Not the worst idea, especially if you can get there via private vehicle and can bring plenty of food and necessities with you.
I can! I just rented an SUV (bad girl!) for a month I pick up tomorrow ($517/month from Hertz all inclusive) so I can go anywhere and camp if I want.
Except New Mexico State Parks those are now closed through 4/9
Plenty of BLM and NF land to pick from though.
It looks like those parks aren't *closed*, you just aren't allowed to camp overnight. Day use is still fine. https://www.ktsm.com/local/new-mexico-state-parks-suspend-overnight-camping/
I really hadn't contemplated that my backpacking trip in late April could be endangered. And I still hope it is not. We'll be going to National parks, and restricting dispersed/backcountry camping wouldn't seem to make sense to advance any sort of public health goals, so still hoping to do that.
So long as we can find dehydrated food to carry since I heard there's been a run on those items...
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Let's say you book a trip that is not refundable. If we hypothetically go into a country wide lock down, do you think credit cards will be refunding those charges?
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I'm now actually thinking of travelling somewhere here semi-remote to get away from people. A long solo backpack or just a house rental where I don't need to be in daily contact with people who are in daily contact with lots of people. Roommate still works and is involved with social activities I can't control. He's moving out at end of April but lots can happen between now and then. BF is FIREd but has a sports related side gig and around a lot of people too - at least until it gets cancelled.
Not the worst idea, especially if you can get there via private vehicle and can bring plenty of food and necessities with you.
I can! I just rented an SUV (bad girl!) for a month I pick up tomorrow ($517/month from Hertz all inclusive) so I can go anywhere and camp if I want.
Except New Mexico State Parks those are now closed through 4/9
Plenty of BLM and NF land to pick from though.
It looks like those parks aren't *closed*, you just aren't allowed to camp overnight. Day use is still fine. https://www.ktsm.com/local/new-mexico-state-parks-suspend-overnight-camping/
I really hadn't contemplated that my backpacking trip in late April could be endangered. And I still hope it is not. We'll be going to National parks, and restricting dispersed/backcountry camping wouldn't seem to make sense to advance any sort of public health goals, so still hoping to do that.
So long as we can find dehydrated food to carry since I heard there's been a run on those items...
So you can mingle with groups of people during the day, but you can't be by yourself in a tent in the middle of nowhere at night?
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I'm now actually thinking of travelling somewhere here semi-remote to get away from people. A long solo backpack or just a house rental where I don't need to be in daily contact with people who are in daily contact with lots of people. Roommate still works and is involved with social activities I can't control. He's moving out at end of April but lots can happen between now and then. BF is FIREd but has a sports related side gig and around a lot of people too - at least until it gets cancelled.
Not the worst idea, especially if you can get there via private vehicle and can bring plenty of food and necessities with you.
I can! I just rented an SUV (bad girl!) for a month I pick up tomorrow ($517/month from Hertz all inclusive) so I can go anywhere and camp if I want.
Except New Mexico State Parks those are now closed through 4/9
Plenty of BLM and NF land to pick from though.
It looks like those parks aren't *closed*, you just aren't allowed to camp overnight. Day use is still fine. https://www.ktsm.com/local/new-mexico-state-parks-suspend-overnight-camping/
I really hadn't contemplated that my backpacking trip in late April could be endangered. And I still hope it is not. We'll be going to National parks, and restricting dispersed/backcountry camping wouldn't seem to make sense to advance any sort of public health goals, so still hoping to do that.
So long as we can find dehydrated food to carry since I heard there's been a run on those items...
So you can mingle with groups of people during the day, but you can't be by yourself in a tent in the middle of nowhere at night?
Well, day use of parks doesn't necessarily involve mingling with groups of people. But use of a campground means using shared bathrooms, picnic tables, garbage cans, etc. And the virus can live on certain hard surfaces for a week +/- so it makes a certain sense.
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Wife and I (healthy 40 year olds) are supposed to fly to Orlando Saturday, and meet my sister/brother-in-law/niece/nephew and Mom and Dad (early 70s, good health) to go to Disney World for a couple days and then to my Mom and Dads house in Ft Myers area for another 3 days.
My wife has had anxiety over going for over a week now about the flight and germs at Disney. She has been pressured by coworkers not to go who say if she brings the virus back the small doctors office would be closed, they wouldn’t be able to work, wouldn’t be paid, and couldn’t pay their bills. She was also questioned by her employer about where she’s been going and when and the possibility if she should be allowed at work when she gets back. She is also worried about being quarantined out of state and missing work, and pressured by her family not to go. My Mom looks forward to this trip once per year, and she said this is the last time she will go to Disney with us. My wife has been torn with what to do, hard time sleeping, and finally decided she is staying back. My Mom understands, but is crushed.
I haven’t made a final decision yet, and still could go and have a good time with my Mom, Dad, sister, and niece/nephew who all still plan to go. And make my Mom feel much better than if both my wife and I didn’t go. Her Mom and two sister didn’t live much longer than she has at her age. I am not as worried about the virus as my wife. In the unlikely event I would get it, I would have to accept the consequences including being quarantined out of state.
I heard that Disney (world and land) have closed. Decision may be made for you.
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Ugh. I’m supposed to go to nyc in the end of March for a big work related but not mandatory thing that I have been really really looking forward to. I’m pregnant, so could be considered to have compromised immune system and my spouse is super concerned. I don’t think the risk is high yet, but his worry is. And I don’t know how to decide. His family lives much closer to the European outbreaks and has had to cancel plans and lost a lot of money due to it, so I suppose his concern comes from their experience as well.
Bleh. I keep putting off buying the tickets and everyone is really frustrated with me. And I am so disappointed. Do I put him through 6-8 weeks of this level of worry?? Bleh.
Just this week the entire event was canceled as many of the guests were from Europe. Travel ban ended it. Makes it easier on me. I’m much more cautious than I was a few weeks ago. Trying to distance and all that. I’ve got some work meetings I can’t avoid.
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I’m certainly looking forward to getting home tomorrow.
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Wife and I (healthy 40 year olds) are supposed to fly to Orlando Saturday, and meet my sister/brother-in-law/niece/nephew and Mom and Dad (early 70s, good health) to go to Disney World for a couple days and then to my Mom and Dads house in Ft Myers area for another 3 days.
My wife has had anxiety over going for over a week now about the flight and germs at Disney. She has been pressured by coworkers not to go who say if she brings the virus back the small doctors office would be closed, they wouldn’t be able to work, wouldn’t be paid, and couldn’t pay their bills. She was also questioned by her employer about where she’s been going and when and the possibility if she should be allowed at work when she gets back. She is also worried about being quarantined out of state and missing work, and pressured by her family not to go. My Mom looks forward to this trip once per year, and she said this is the last time she will go to Disney with us. My wife has been torn with what to do, hard time sleeping, and finally decided she is staying back. My Mom understands, but is crushed.
I haven’t made a final decision yet, and still could go and have a good time with my Mom, Dad, sister, and niece/nephew who all still plan to go. And make my Mom feel much better than if both my wife and I didn’t go. Her Mom and two sister didn’t live much longer than she has at her age. I am not as worried about the virus as my wife. In the unlikely event I would get it, I would have to accept the consequences including being quarantined out of state.
I heard that Disney (world and land) have closed. Decision may be made for you.
Yep Disneyland closes starting tomorrow and I think Disneyworld closed already as have most theme parks. Probably best to keep things simple now and enjoy a staycation at home or nearby locations that don't have many people.
After Disney World closed, my sister was still planning to just take her family to my Mom and Dad’s in Florida for a week instead of three days at Disney and four days there. Which actually made the decision harder for me since then it was basically don’t have to deal with germs at Disney and instead the airplane for three hours and go isolate at my Moms house with the pool and warm weather for a week.
But then she changed her mind two hours before we were to go to the airport being concerned about bringing the virus to patients in the ICU and the risk air travel could be completely shut down and having to drive home to Iowa.
So trip cancelled, my sisters family is spending the weekend at my house before driving back to Iowa.
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For anyone in the States still on the fence about whether to alter travel plans:
Six days ago, my wife and I brought our baby son on holiday for a five-day trip to Malaga in Spain to give ourselves a break and enjoy some sunshine and good food. We had booked about three months ago. When we left on Monday, the coronavirus was still being discussed almost as an Italian/Iranian/Chinese problem, with almost no relevance to life in Ireland - although companies were beginning to make contingency plans for remote working and cutting back on travel.
While we were away, all Irish schools and colleges were closed with immediate effect. Spain went from being unremarked upon in the context of the virus to being one of the epicentres thanks to a severe outbreak in Madrid. Between us arriving in Malaga on Monday and flying home on Friday, it became clear not only was Madrid the centre of a major outbreak, but that thousands of Madrid residents had fled the city before it went into lockdown and spread across the entire country. When we got home Friday evening, we were met at the airport door by officials from the Department of Health explaining how we needed to self-quarantine for two weeks with immediate effect. Less than 24 hours later, Spain went into full lockdown. Flights were turned around in mid-air and cancelled. If we had booked for a week, I'd now be sitting in an AirBNB in Spain desperately trying to figure out when we might possibly get home and how I could feed my wife and infant child in a ghost city. We would have no clear idea of when or if we would get home, and would be stuck in a 300-square-foot apartment assuming the AirBNB host was willing to let us stay. Instead, we were lucky enough to get home, and to spend the next two weeks avoiding all contact with other people and relying on our family to do our grocery shopping.
I cannot emphasise this enough: we went from "that coronavirus thing is making a bit of a mess of Italy" to "Jesus Christ, we very nearly ended up stranded in a foreign country, and now our mothers are leaving shopping on our doorstep and ringing the bell so we can pick it up once they've retreated a safe distance" in five days.
Five days.
Be extremely careful about travelling in the near future.
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For anyone in the States still on the fence about whether to alter travel plans:
Six days ago, my wife and I brought our baby son on holiday for a five-day trip to Malaga in Spain to give ourselves a break and enjoy some sunshine and good food. We had booked about three months ago. When we left on Monday, the coronavirus was still being discussed almost as an Italian/Iranian/Chinese problem, with almost no relevance to life in Ireland - although companies were beginning to make contingency plans for remote working and cutting back on travel.
While we were away, all Irish schools and colleges were closed with immediate effect. Spain went from being unremarked upon in the context of the virus to being one of the epicentres thanks to a severe outbreak in Madrid. Between us arriving in Malaga on Monday and flying home on Friday, it became clear that thousands of Madrid residents had fleed the city before it went into lockdown and spread across the entire country. When we got home Friday evening, we were met at the airport door by officials from the Department of Health explaining how we needed to self-quarantine for two weeks with immediate effect. Less than 24 hours later, Spain went into full lockdown. Flights were turned around in mid-air and cancelled. If we had booked for a week, I'd now be sitting in an AirBNB in Spain desperately trying to figure out when we might possibly get home and how I could feed my wife and infant child in a ghost city. We would have no clear idea of when or if we would get home, and would be stuck in a 300-square-foot apartment assuming the AirBNB host was willing to let us stay. Instead, we were lucky enough to get home, and to spend the next two weeks avoiding all contact with other people and relying on our family to do our grocery shopping.
I cannot emphasise this enough: we went from "that coronavirus thing is making a bit of a mess of Italy" to "Jesus Christ, we very nearly ended up stranded in a foreign country, and now our mothers are leaving shopping on our doorstep and ringing the bell so we can pick it up once they've retreated a safe distance" in five days.
Five days.
Be extremely careful about travelling in the near future.
Thank you for the amazing story. Exponential growth, combined with a contagious incubation period, has resulted in essentially unfathomable growth; and once the scale of this growth is realized by the leaders, it has resulted in unprecedented (in our lifetimes) controls to stymie the spread.
I still have a trip planned for Hawaii in 13 days. I'm almost certain at this point it's kaplowie to Maui.
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On a lighter note, "getting home with 24 hours to spare before an unprecedented lockdown" is somehow not an automatic number one on the list of the scariest holiday-related things my wife and I have dealt with in the last few years. In 2016, we flew to Belgium two days after the Zaventem airport attack, specifically to stand in crowds at cycling races, and the previous year we were mildly teargassed in Istanbul and woken up by an earthquake in Gallipoli.
Looking at it written down, I think maybe we're cursed.
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My county reported their first case of COVID-19 community transmission of unknown origin, so my household will not be traveling outside of our county at this point, as we could unknowingly spread it to an area that doesn’t yet have community transmission. At this point we are now only eating food that we prepared at home, as we have to act in a way that assumes people we come into contact with have it. We’re taking our temperatures daily so if we get a fever we will self quarantine and not be part of the further spread. We are minimizing our trips out of the house, and are washing our hands right when we get home (and not touching our faces anytime we aren’t at home). I’ve offered to run errands for my 84 year old friend so she can stay safely isolated at home.
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On a lighter note, "getting home with 24 hours to spare before an unprecedented lockdown" is somehow not an automatic number one on the list of the scariest holiday-related things my wife and I have dealt with in the last few years. In 2016, we flew to Belgium two days after the Zaventem airport attack, specifically to stand in crowds at cycling races, and the previous year we were mildly teargassed in Istanbul and woken up by an earthquake in Gallipoli.
Looking at it written down, I think maybe we're cursed.
Maybe you can start posting your planned travel, as a public service to the hapless people in the unsuspecting countries. :P
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At this rate we could probably offer our services as a covert weapon of war.
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...
Except New Mexico State Parks those are now closed through 4/9
Plenty of BLM and NF land to pick from though.
Yes it was very surprising having a park ranger show up at our camper to let us know we had to not camp there past 2 pm the next day. I suspect part of the issue is that the campers skew older and New Mexico isn't a place with a ton of medical facilities due to smaller population.
We are definitely keeping to more spread out campsites but given that our metro region has community transmission we are definitely safer out in the boonies than anywhere near our "home base". I still suspect that our two family get togethers later this year may be off just because someone will get sick. Most likely not us even though it would be safer if it was us since most of our family members are older and have various health conditions.
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I'm now actually thinking of travelling somewhere here semi-remote to get away from people. A long solo backpack or just a house rental where I don't need to be in daily contact with people who are in daily contact with lots of people. Roommate still works and is involved with social activities I can't control. He's moving out at end of April but lots can happen between now and then. BF is FIREd but has a sports related side gig and around a lot of people too - at least until it gets cancelled.
Not the worst idea, especially if you can get there via private vehicle and can bring plenty of food and necessities with you.
I can! I just rented an SUV (bad girl!) for a month I pick up tomorrow ($517/month from Hertz all inclusive) so I can go anywhere and camp if I want.
Except New Mexico State Parks those are now closed through 4/9
Plenty of BLM and NF land to pick from though.
It looks like those parks aren't *closed*, you just aren't allowed to camp overnight. Day use is still fine. https://www.ktsm.com/local/new-mexico-state-parks-suspend-overnight-camping/
I really hadn't contemplated that my backpacking trip in late April could be endangered. And I still hope it is not. We'll be going to National parks, and restricting dispersed/backcountry camping wouldn't seem to make sense to advance any sort of public health goals, so still hoping to do that.
So long as we can find dehydrated food to carry since I heard there's been a run on those items...
Thanks for pointing that out and sorry for not being more specific in my original post. I was aware that day use was still permitted,
but considering Spartana's preferences, I figured she'd be interested mostly in camping. I should have pointed that out.
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I’m still on site at a client and headed home Wednesday. Pretty interested to see what DTW looks like since I last headed through a week ago. My flight looks empty and the one I might try to switch to get home earlier looks empty also. Client told all consultants to work remotely for the foreseeable future but I’m a little nervous my project will be cut short and I’ll be out of work sooner than planned. If I can work 3-5 months a year my expenses for the whole year are covered so I probably should count myself lucky.
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I was interested in both day use and camping so I'm glad you posted as th I never really gave it a thought that either would be shut-down. On the bright side, the roommates job is shut down for a couple of weeks or longer and he decided to go visit family out of state. Which is a huge relief to me as he was a serious non-believer in "social distancing" or that he had to limit contact in anyways whether sick or not. Now I can stay home alone and go do solitary activities for the most part without worry.
Ha, glad that worked out for you!
We are social distancing camping on BLM land in a very beautiful area near Yuma AZ.
I did have to go to Mexico for dental work yesterday and people were going crazy in the pharmacies buying up what they could.
Luckily my appointment was early so I was in an out in less than 1 hour.
Not sure what's going to happen with my planned trip to Europe in April.
I'm waiting to see how things unfold.
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I had a friend who also went to Mexico recently for dental work but I'm wondering if the borders are closed now. Maybe returning Americans or Canadians are allowed thru via car after yesterday's travel ban. I'm staying put but plan to use the rental SUV to go up to the local mountains and deserts to do some fun stuff. Ski resorts are all shut down (as is literally everything it seems) but lots of outdoor activities. I know your are boondocking in an RV and probably well supplied so that's a great way to be far away from people!
The one by Yuma/Algodones (Andrade) is still open as of today for both foot and car travel.
But a lot of locals are concerned that this may change soon.
I will need to go back in a couple of months, hope things will have normalised by then.
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Anyone have luck getting refunds for summer travel? I book a trip with a Chase Business Ink for August. I can cancel my Airbnb accommodations up until July 30th for a full refund minus booking fees. I'd pay about $160 to get about $1200 back. I could wait to see if Airbnb extends the booking fee refunds out to the end of August, but I think I'm going to pay the fee rather than risk them running out of cash before then (even though I have no idea what their financial situation is). United has offered a free flight change or travel credit good for 24 months, but I have to do that by the end of month. I'd rather a refund, even if I have to pay a fee, but I'm guessing neither the airline nor Chase is going to provide a refund. Guessing I'll have to opt for the travel credit...but will United be around for another 2 years?
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Anyone have luck getting refunds for summer travel? I book a trip with a Chase Business Ink for August. I can cancel my Airbnb accommodations up until July 30th for a full refund minus booking fees. I'd pay about $160 to get about $1200 back. I could wait to see if Airbnb extends the booking fee refunds out to the end of August, but I think I'm going to pay the fee rather than risk them running out of cash before then (even though I have no idea what their financial situation is). United has offered a free flight change or travel credit good for 24 months, but I have to do that by the end of month. I'd rather a refund, even if I have to pay a fee, but I'm guessing neither the airline nor Chase is going to provide a refund. Guessing I'll have to opt for the travel credit...but will United be around for another 2 years?
According to the travel hacking sites I follow (thepointsguy.com and millionmilesecrets.com), for airlines, it's worth waiting until the last minute (<48h) to cancel. If the airline cancels the flight or changes the time significantly, they owe you a refund, NOT just a voucher for future travel. I don't know about the specifics for United, but I had a flight on American in May that was changed by a few hours, and according to their conditions of carriage, if they cancel a flight or change the time by more than 61 minutes, the passenger can claim a refund. So I called American, read their own rules to them, and they confirmed that this is the case, so my credit card will be refunded. The way things are going right now, there's a very good chance United will cancel your flight or change it enough that you should be able to get your money back. The airlines are just not making this clear to people because they'd rather keep your money.
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Anyone have luck getting refunds for summer travel? I book a trip with a Chase Business Ink for August. I can cancel my Airbnb accommodations up until July 30th for a full refund minus booking fees. I'd pay about $160 to get about $1200 back. I could wait to see if Airbnb extends the booking fee refunds out to the end of August, but I think I'm going to pay the fee rather than risk them running out of cash before then (even though I have no idea what their financial situation is). United has offered a free flight change or travel credit good for 24 months, but I have to do that by the end of month. I'd rather a refund, even if I have to pay a fee, but I'm guessing neither the airline nor Chase is going to provide a refund. Guessing I'll have to opt for the travel credit...but will United be around for another 2 years?
For AirBnB, my sister canceled her June booking which was only 50% refundable by the host. They told her to call AirBnB to get them to cover the other half. When she called, not only did they refund her the other half, but they also gave her a $300 credit on top of that (I was quite surprised by this). So I recommend canceling your AirBnB and then calling them and they’ll almost certainly refund your booking fees.
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Wonder when it will be safe to move around the country either by car or plane. Seems too risky for now.
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We’ve canceled all of our trips for this year except a book signing I am supposed to go to in November. I honestly think that will be canceled as well (about 50 authors and hundreds of attendees are scheduled), but I’m waiting to decide whether to back out myself. I haven’t booked my flight yet, but have booked the hotel and paid the registration.
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We bought ridiculously expensive tickets, via tickemaster and a huge mark up, for a sporting event in Ireland in August. Obviously that's a ways out, but I am wondering what the refund situation will be and hoping we'd get all of it back from Ticketmaster. Of course it's a sunk cost at this point, but I suspect that even if it happens, DH may not be allowed to travel, and I'm not sure we will want to be sitting in a huge crowd at that juncture.
The airbnb is refundable, and we hadn't purchased airfare yet.
We will wait and see!
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I was planning to visit my elderly relatives in NYC this August but hadn't yet bought the airline tickets. Obviously, that's on hold until things calm down both here in Italy and in NYC. I'm contemplating postponing the trip to Christmas instead. The kids would probably really enjoy the Christmas lights in NYC and are very excited at the possibility of seeing snow.
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Anyone have luck getting refunds for summer travel? I book a trip with a Chase Business Ink for August. I can cancel my Airbnb accommodations up until July 30th for a full refund minus booking fees. I'd pay about $160 to get about $1200 back. I could wait to see if Airbnb extends the booking fee refunds out to the end of August, but I think I'm going to pay the fee rather than risk them running out of cash before then (even though I have no idea what their financial situation is). United has offered a free flight change or travel credit good for 24 months, but I have to do that by the end of month. I'd rather a refund, even if I have to pay a fee, but I'm guessing neither the airline nor Chase is going to provide a refund. Guessing I'll have to opt for the travel credit...but will United be around for another 2 years?
I canceled a couple of Airbnb reservations last week, while I was still within the property owners' free cancellation period. Got all of my deposit refunded to my credit card within a few days. But who knows if they'll have enough cash to keep doing that through July? I also cancelled a couple of other pre-paid lodging reservations at other non-Airbnb hotels. I've been promised a refunds for those, minus a small cancellation fee. Those refunds haven't arrived yet, but they said it might take up to 10 business days.
I'm waiting until the last minute to cancel my flight. American is only offering credits that have to be used by December 31, which doesn't work for me. Best case scenario is they cancel and have to give me a full refund. Worst case is I have to eat 900 bucks.
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I'm anxiously watching a conference my college president wants to send me to in late July. The conference has not opened registration and says they will make a decision about that in mid-April. If they decide to go ahead I guess I'll have to decide if I'm willing to go or not. No reservations made yet, and I think I will not be spending my money on this. If I agree to go, the least the college can do is front the money.
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Anyone have luck getting refunds for summer travel? I book a trip with a Chase Business Ink for August. I can cancel my Airbnb accommodations up until July 30th for a full refund minus booking fees. I'd pay about $160 to get about $1200 back. I could wait to see if Airbnb extends the booking fee refunds out to the end of August, but I think I'm going to pay the fee rather than risk them running out of cash before then (even though I have no idea what their financial situation is). United has offered a free flight change or travel credit good for 24 months, but I have to do that by the end of month. I'd rather a refund, even if I have to pay a fee, but I'm guessing neither the airline nor Chase is going to provide a refund. Guessing I'll have to opt for the travel credit...but will United be around for another 2 years?
For AirBnB, my sister canceled her June booking which was only 50% refundable by the host. They told her to call AirBnB to get them to cover the other half. When she called, not only did they refund her the other half, but they also gave her a $300 credit on top of that (I was quite surprised by this). So I recommend canceling your AirBnB and then calling them and they’ll almost certainly refund your booking fees.
This is a good tip. We've canceled our June trip to Hawaii. Got credit on United (have to book within a year for flights within two years). We literally get nothing if we cancel the AirBNB because the cancellation policy is they only refund half. We pre-paid half. So we lose that money completely. I didn't think to call airBNB.
However, AirBNB is offering refunds up through the end of May. I am waiting to see if they change that to June. I have until June 1 to make that decision.
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Anyone have luck getting refunds for summer travel? I book a trip with a Chase Business Ink for August. I can cancel my Airbnb accommodations up until July 30th for a full refund minus booking fees. I'd pay about $160 to get about $1200 back. I could wait to see if Airbnb extends the booking fee refunds out to the end of August, but I think I'm going to pay the fee rather than risk them running out of cash before then (even though I have no idea what their financial situation is). United has offered a free flight change or travel credit good for 24 months, but I have to do that by the end of month. I'd rather a refund, even if I have to pay a fee, but I'm guessing neither the airline nor Chase is going to provide a refund. Guessing I'll have to opt for the travel credit...but will United be around for another 2 years?
For AirBnB, my sister canceled her June booking which was only 50% refundable by the host. They told her to call AirBnB to get them to cover the other half. When she called, not only did they refund her the other half, but they also gave her a $300 credit on top of that (I was quite surprised by this). So I recommend canceling your AirBnB and then calling them and they’ll almost certainly refund your booking fees.
This is a good tip. We've canceled our June trip to Hawaii. Got credit on United (have to book within a year for flights within two years). We literally get nothing if we cancel the AirBNB because the cancellation policy is they only refund half. We pre-paid half. So we lose that money completely. I didn't think to call airBNB.
However, AirBNB is offering refunds up through the end of May. I am waiting to see if they change that to June. I have until June 1 to make that decision.
Ah, it looks like my sister’s AirBnB reservation was for the last week of May and the first week of June. So I guess since it started in May, that’s why they refunded her? I’d expect they’ll extend this to June soon.
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Anyone have luck getting refunds for summer travel? I book a trip with a Chase Business Ink for August. I can cancel my Airbnb accommodations up until July 30th for a full refund minus booking fees. I'd pay about $160 to get about $1200 back. I could wait to see if Airbnb extends the booking fee refunds out to the end of August, but I think I'm going to pay the fee rather than risk them running out of cash before then (even though I have no idea what their financial situation is). United has offered a free flight change or travel credit good for 24 months, but I have to do that by the end of month. I'd rather a refund, even if I have to pay a fee, but I'm guessing neither the airline nor Chase is going to provide a refund. Guessing I'll have to opt for the travel credit...but will United be around for another 2 years?
For AirBnB, my sister canceled her June booking which was only 50% refundable by the host. They told her to call AirBnB to get them to cover the other half. When she called, not only did they refund her the other half, but they also gave her a $300 credit on top of that (I was quite surprised by this). So I recommend canceling your AirBnB and then calling them and they’ll almost certainly refund your booking fees.
This is a good tip. We've canceled our June trip to Hawaii. Got credit on United (have to book within a year for flights within two years). We literally get nothing if we cancel the AirBNB because the cancellation policy is they only refund half. We pre-paid half. So we lose that money completely. I didn't think to call airBNB.
However, AirBNB is offering refunds up through the end of May. I am waiting to see if they change that to June. I have until June 1 to make that decision.
Ah, it looks like my sister’s AirBnB reservation was for the last week of May and the first week of June. So I guess since it started in May, that’s why they refunded her? I’d expect they’ll extend this to June soon.
I cancelled an Air BnB reservation for mid-May. I had paid half so far, with the rest due at the end of April. The host refused to refund me, so I lost a little over $500. I think I will try calling Air BnB tomorrow, based on what you guys have said. Can't hurt.
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We're not likely to travel around the country or world until there is a vaccine. We're not low-risk.
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My job gives me a free ticket from Hong Kong to my country of origin (the US) every two years during our summer holidays. Not taking them up on it this year. In fact, probably not going anywhere this summer. Plenty of kayaking and beach time will be had here though, we've got systems in place to keep things pretty well under control at this time.
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Anyone have luck getting refunds for summer travel? I book a trip with a Chase Business Ink for August. I can cancel my Airbnb accommodations up until July 30th for a full refund minus booking fees. I'd pay about $160 to get about $1200 back. I could wait to see if Airbnb extends the booking fee refunds out to the end of August, but I think I'm going to pay the fee rather than risk them running out of cash before then (even though I have no idea what their financial situation is). United has offered a free flight change or travel credit good for 24 months, but I have to do that by the end of month. I'd rather a refund, even if I have to pay a fee, but I'm guessing neither the airline nor Chase is going to provide a refund. Guessing I'll have to opt for the travel credit...but will United be around for another 2 years?
According to the travel hacking sites I follow (thepointsguy.com and millionmilesecrets.com), for airlines, it's worth waiting until the last minute (<48h) to cancel. If the airline cancels the flight or changes the time significantly, they owe you a refund, NOT just a voucher for future travel. I don't know about the specifics for United, but I had a flight on American in May that was changed by a few hours, and according to their conditions of carriage, if they cancel a flight or change the time by more than 61 minutes, the passenger can claim a refund. So I called American, read their own rules to them, and they confirmed that this is the case, so my credit card will be refunded. The way things are going right now, there's a very good chance United will cancel your flight or change it enough that you should be able to get your money back. The airlines are just not making this clear to people because they'd rather keep your money.
I'll have to look at the fine print associated withy my ticket. I guess the worst case scenario is that flights are running and the border is open and so I just go on my trip. Anyway, I'd much rather a refund than a credit, so maybe I'll risk it. I think I will cancel the Airbnbs and eat the loss though. It's not that big a deal. And maybe if I do end up going, I can find cheaper accommodations.
Edit: Some info here but looks like the airlines are, unsurprisingly, doing whatever they can to avoid refunds. https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/airlines-are-playing-games-with-consumers-coronavirus-pandemic-is-making-it-tougher-for-passengers-to-get-refunds/ar-BB12oDBp
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On this episode of the Weeds podcast, the hosts discuss some plans that have been published recently about how America opening back up might be accomplished, and discuss how each of those plans would look to us. Spoiler alert: nothing like returning to normalcy for like 18 months at least. https://cms.megaphone.fm/channel/theweeds
I feel like I'm been overly optimistic about this whole thing, so I'm trying not to automatically doubt things that sound totally incomprehensible, like having to show certain health documentation before boarding an airplane and all airplanes operating at 50% capacity max. That leisure travel would not be happening so much, but that "visiting family" travel might be possible. I don't have any plans to fly (hoping my flight to the Caucasus in a few weeks gets cancelled), but we were tentatively still thinking of visiting family on both coasts over the winter holidays. I never thought that might be threatened, but I wonder if we will end up going.
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Anyone have luck getting refunds for summer travel? I book a trip with a Chase Business Ink for August. I can cancel my Airbnb accommodations up until July 30th for a full refund minus booking fees. I'd pay about $160 to get about $1200 back. I could wait to see if Airbnb extends the booking fee refunds out to the end of August, but I think I'm going to pay the fee rather than risk them running out of cash before then (even though I have no idea what their financial situation is). United has offered a free flight change or travel credit good for 24 months, but I have to do that by the end of month. I'd rather a refund, even if I have to pay a fee, but I'm guessing neither the airline nor Chase is going to provide a refund. Guessing I'll have to opt for the travel credit...but will United be around for another 2 years?
According to the travel hacking sites I follow (thepointsguy.com and millionmilesecrets.com), for airlines, it's worth waiting until the last minute (<48h) to cancel. If the airline cancels the flight or changes the time significantly, they owe you a refund, NOT just a voucher for future travel. I don't know about the specifics for United, but I had a flight on American in May that was changed by a few hours, and according to their conditions of carriage, if they cancel a flight or change the time by more than 61 minutes, the passenger can claim a refund. So I called American, read their own rules to them, and they confirmed that this is the case, so my credit card will be refunded. The way things are going right now, there's a very good chance United will cancel your flight or change it enough that you should be able to get your money back. The airlines are just not making this clear to people because they'd rather keep your money.
I'll have to look at the fine print associated withy my ticket. I guess the worst case scenario is that flights are running and the border is open and so I just go on my trip. Anyway, I'd much rather a refund than a credit, so maybe I'll risk it. I think I will cancel the Airbnbs and eat the loss though. It's not that big a deal. And maybe if I do end up going, I can find cheaper accommodations.
Edit: Some info here but looks like the airlines are, unsurprisingly, doing whatever they can to avoid refunds. https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/airlines-are-playing-games-with-consumers-coronavirus-pandemic-is-making-it-tougher-for-passengers-to-get-refunds/ar-BB12oDBp
I was searching the internet and the is correct.
My flight for Spirit got canceled both ways(I booked them seperately) and they gave me a credit.
Oh NO not so fast. The DOT released a statement on April 3rd that they need to refund you the money.
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I cancelled an Air BnB reservation for mid-May. I had paid half so far, with the rest due at the end of April. The host refused to refund me, so I lost a little over $500. I think I will try calling Air BnB tomorrow, based on what you guys have said. Can't hurt.
Definitely can't.
I figure, best case - this thing fades more quickly than anyone thinks and I re-book my tix to go in June!
Medium case - this doesn't happen and AirBNB extends the cancellation refund to end June.
Worst case - I'm out $1000.
I could, possibly, change the AirBNB to next year. That's another option. I really want to go back to Kauai!!
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We had a flight from Korea to CA for this month. Booked in January, cancelled (by them) in early March, and after 3 weeks of haggling with Expedia we got the refund a few days ago.
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Actually, my husband and I were planning go to go Europe again in the fall, but thank goodness we hadn't booked yet. I think we will take our camper and travel the USA in the fall instead as long as campgrounds open back up. We could also boondock in remote areas as we have a generator.
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Anyone have luck getting refunds for summer travel? I book a trip with a Chase Business Ink for August. I can cancel my Airbnb accommodations up until July 30th for a full refund minus booking fees. I'd pay about $160 to get about $1200 back. I could wait to see if Airbnb extends the booking fee refunds out to the end of August, but I think I'm going to pay the fee rather than risk them running out of cash before then (even though I have no idea what their financial situation is). United has offered a free flight change or travel credit good for 24 months, but I have to do that by the end of month. I'd rather a refund, even if I have to pay a fee, but I'm guessing neither the airline nor Chase is going to provide a refund. Guessing I'll have to opt for the travel credit...but will United be around for another 2 years?
According to the travel hacking sites I follow (thepointsguy.com and millionmilesecrets.com), for airlines, it's worth waiting until the last minute (<48h) to cancel. If the airline cancels the flight or changes the time significantly, they owe you a refund, NOT just a voucher for future travel. I don't know about the specifics for United, but I had a flight on American in May that was changed by a few hours, and according to their conditions of carriage, if they cancel a flight or change the time by more than 61 minutes, the passenger can claim a refund. So I called American, read their own rules to them, and they confirmed that this is the case, so my credit card will be refunded. The way things are going right now, there's a very good chance United will cancel your flight or change it enough that you should be able to get your money back. The airlines are just not making this clear to people because they'd rather keep your money.
I'll have to look at the fine print associated withy my ticket. I guess the worst case scenario is that flights are running and the border is open and so I just go on my trip. Anyway, I'd much rather a refund than a credit, so maybe I'll risk it. I think I will cancel the Airbnbs and eat the loss though. It's not that big a deal. And maybe if I do end up going, I can find cheaper accommodations.
Edit: Some info here but looks like the airlines are, unsurprisingly, doing whatever they can to avoid refunds. https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/airlines-are-playing-games-with-consumers-coronavirus-pandemic-is-making-it-tougher-for-passengers-to-get-refunds/ar-BB12oDBp
Quick update: Airbnb let hosts know last week that they could cancel any 2020 booking made before 3/15 penalty-free, so I reached out to the 3 places I had booked and explained that I wasn’t coming and asked them to cancel and 2 of 3 have. Time is almost up (hosts have to cancel by 4/30) but it might be worth a try for anyone else trying to cancel.
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Quick update: Airbnb let hosts know last week that they could cancel any 2020 booking made before 3/15 penalty-free, so I reached out to the 3 places I had booked and explained that I wasn’t coming and asked them to cancel and 2 of 3 have. Time is almost up (hosts have to cancel by 4/30) but it might be worth a try for anyone else trying to cancel.
Thanks @salt cured. I just emailed my remaining two reservations for October for a trip to France. We'll see what they say, but I am not overly optimistic.
I have had no luck with my Air Bnb in Toronto for May. The owner refused to refund my deposit (over $500), and Air Bnb is not helping. They said I would need documentation, as in a state (provincial order). Well, the only order I can find is for international travel, not domestic travel, even though they are constantly saying to avoid non-essential travel.
This has turned into a very expensive lesson for me as I love to travel and had several trips booked. First, avoid Air Bnb as their customer service sucks. Second, make sure to only book places with a generous cancellation policy as even in circumstances such as a pandemic, which are totally out of my control, owners are allowed to keep your money.
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Quick update: Airbnb let hosts know last week that they could cancel any 2020 booking made before 3/15 penalty-free, so I reached out to the 3 places I had booked and explained that I wasn’t coming and asked them to cancel and 2 of 3 have. Time is almost up (hosts have to cancel by 4/30) but it might be worth a try for anyone else trying to cancel.
Thanks @salt cured. I just emailed my remaining two reservations for October for a trip to France. We'll see what they say, but I am not overly optimistic.
My reservations were fully refundable (minus the service fee) up to a week or so before check-in. I basically said (politely): "Look, I'm going to cancel eventually, but it's in my best interest to wait to see if Airbnb will change their policy for guests and give me a full refund. If you want to free up your dates before then, I suggest you cancel since there is no penalty. Otherwise I'll be squatting here, potentially right up to the week before check-in." If your reservations aren't fully refundable, you might get some resistance. Good luck!
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Quick update: Airbnb let hosts know last week that they could cancel any 2020 booking made before 3/15 penalty-free, so I reached out to the 3 places I had booked and explained that I wasn’t coming and asked them to cancel and 2 of 3 have. Time is almost up (hosts have to cancel by 4/30) but it might be worth a try for anyone else trying to cancel.
Thanks @salt cured. I just emailed my remaining two reservations for October for a trip to France. We'll see what they say, but I am not overly optimistic.
I have had no luck with my Air Bnb in Toronto for May. The owner refused to refund my deposit (over $500), and Air Bnb is not helping. They said I would need documentation, as in a state (provincial order). Well, the only order I can find is for international travel, not domestic travel, even though they are constantly saying to avoid non-essential travel.
This has turned into a very expensive lesson for me as I love to travel and had several trips booked. First, avoid Air Bnb as their customer service sucks. Second, make sure to only book places with a generous cancellation policy as even in circumstances such as a pandemic, which are totally out of my control, owners are allowed to keep your money.
I unfortunately learned that lesson from the canceled NYC marathon due to hurricane Sandy. I listened to Bloomberg and didn’t cancel my trip only to find out that the race was cancelled an hour after I picked up my race packet. I had booked my hotel through Expedia and the hotel refused to refund the rest of my stay because I had checked in. So they got $1000 for an empty room for several nights. I now am willing to pay a premium for refundable rooms. (I’m generally ok on non refundable flights because I have found they will allow you to change or get credit due to “acts of god” even if you can’t normally.)
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Future plans. I booked flights to Vegas for next March yesterday and booked a room at the Grand Canyon with the idea of more parks to follow.
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We have tentative plans to go to Colorado in September for a show at Red Rocks. I sort of think that things will ease for a few months as the warm weather & outdoor activities slow the spread a bit, then we will hit a new wave in late fall or early winter. So, this seems like the only possible window to me. However, I am pretty skeptical the show will end up happening and we may scrap the trip all together. We got $70 return tickets from Denver since they're fully changeable for a year, bought the concert tickets (which I am regretting...) and are watching for a good deal to Colorado Springs or Denver.
I'd like to go to Ohio to visit my mom, but she's turning 60 this year and could be in better health. So right now, my plan is that once I have a return to work date from my company, I will plan a visit to see my mom for the weekend before that, total quarantine for the 2 weeks before, and drive home (8 hours) instead of flying. Haven't figured out what I'm going to do for bathrooms along the way just yet. :/ Luckily, my company is relatively flexible about working from home normally, so I think I can get away with doing this again later in the year if I want to go home another time, but it's sort of a ridiculous exercise to undertake.
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Now that it has been 2 month since this thread started is anyone making current plans to travel within their own country? I'm in USA so big area and many places are starting to open up (not here in Calif yet). I don't have any plans to take a plane or any crowded mode of transportation myself, but I'd really like to do a camping road trip this month. Campgrounds are still closed as are most hiking biking kinds of places like Nat and State Parks, but I've started to look for a vacation rental house in one place but still seems dicey.
We were talking about this yesterday. I guess no summer vacation for us. I cannot imagine CA opening up soon enough. If it weren't for the virus, it would be a perfect time to drive to the East coast and visit the lake and work from there with the kids. But too risky with the elderly relatives we would be visiting.
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Now that it has been 2 month since this thread started is anyone making current plans to travel within their own country? I'm in USA so big area and many places are starting to open up (not here in Calif yet). I don't have any plans to take a plane or any crowded mode of transportation myself, but I'd really like to do a camping road trip this month. Campgrounds are still closed as are most hiking biking kinds of places like Nat and State Parks, but I've started to look for a vacation rental house in one place but still seems dicey.
We're reading that most parks are beginning to work on plans for reopening, figuring out what pieces need to stay closed or be modified to allow people to return. Likewise, we are beginning to plan for our multi-month US car camping trip departure. We're buying a different vehicle with more space in anticipation of relying less on developed campgrounds and more on dispersed camping areas. The extra space will also allow for a battery system that will mean a small refrigerated space and more food storage, so less trips to town/the grocery store. States now have tools and processes in place for better case tracking so it's much easier to see where hotspots are and avoid those. We're hoping to be able to leave June 1, but that will all depend on how intelligently states go about reopening. It seems like the states that have made pacts about how that will go have pretty good plans in place and the others that open up more recklessly will probably just serve as an "I told you so" for everyone else.
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I'm canceling all travel plans until they have successfully put testing *and tracking* in place, or until they have a vaccine widely available. Whichever comes first.
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Now that it has been 2 month since this thread started is anyone making current plans to travel within their own country? I'm in USA so big area and many places are starting to open up (not here in Calif yet). I don't have any plans to take a plane or any crowded mode of transportation myself, but I'd really like to do a camping road trip this month. Campgrounds are still closed as are most hiking biking kinds of places like Nat and State Parks, but I've started to look for a vacation rental house in one place but still seems dicey.
It's funny you mention that, my fiance and I were talking about this last night...
We live in CT, which is technically a hotspot, but nowhere near as bad as NYC. Things are stable here. We would like to go camping, maybe in VT or NH - not immediately, but maybe in mid/late May. Both states have "imposed" voluntary quarantines for out of state visitors, but many people are supposedly flouting those restrictions. We are considering becoming two of those people.
My reasoning is this: we will bring all our own food, camp at a national forest, and spend all of our time on the trails or at camp (and will make sure to select lightly trafficked trails, as we do anyway). We could theoretically go an entire weekend without interacting with anyone else or touching anything anyone would touch, except in a bathroom (would need to figure that out, hopefully the camp bathroom would be open). I don't want to endanger anyone and I hope I don't come across as selfish. It just seems like there is a way to do this without exposing anyone else to undue risk and that's what we'd be aiming for.
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Now that it has been 2 month since this thread started is anyone making current plans to travel within their own country? I'm in USA so big area and many places are starting to open up (not here in Calif yet). I don't have any plans to take a plane or any crowded mode of transportation myself, but I'd really like to do a camping road trip this month. Campgrounds are still closed as are most hiking biking kinds of places like Nat and State Parks, but I've started to look for a vacation rental house in one place but still seems dicey.
It's funny you mention that, my fiance and I were talking about this last night...
We live in CT, which is technically a hotspot, but nowhere near as bad as NYC. Things are stable here. We would like to go camping, maybe in VT or NH - not immediately, but maybe in mid/late May. Both states have "imposed" voluntary quarantines for out of state visitors, but many people are supposedly flouting those restrictions. We are considering becoming two of those people.
My reasoning is this: we will bring all our own food, camp at a national forest, and spend all of our time on the trails or at camp (and will make sure to select lightly trafficked trails, as we do anyway). We could theoretically go an entire weekend without interacting with anyone else or touching anything anyone would touch, except in a bathroom (would need to figure that out, hopefully the camp bathroom would be open). I don't want to endanger anyone and I hope I don't come across as selfish. It just seems like there is a way to do this without exposing anyone else to undue risk and that's what we'd be aiming for.
I think you have your answer. Why would you break another state's requested policy for your own short-term gain? Wait until the voluntary quarantine measure is lifted or camp in your own state.
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I think you have your answer. Why would you break another state's requested policy for your own short-term gain? Wait until the voluntary quarantine measure is lifted or camp in your own state.
Well, because of the reasoning I proceeded to lay out. The borders are not closed, they simply ask people to quarantine/isolate, for the purpose of preventing out of staters from coming into contact with people who may not have been exposed. If I purposefully avoid contact with other people for the <2 days I am there, then I have done just that, have I not?
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I think you have your answer. Why would you break another state's requested policy for your own short-term gain? Wait until the voluntary quarantine measure is lifted or camp in your own state.
Well, because of the reasoning I proceeded to lay out. The borders are not closed, they simply ask people to quarantine/isolate, for the purpose of preventing out of staters from coming into contact with people who may not have been exposed. If I purposefully avoid contact with other people for the <2 days I am there, then I have done just that, have I not?
Assuming that emergency services aren't needed at any point (I once ended up in a rural ER after suffering a puncture wound during a remote camping/hiking trip). Rather than leaving your own state for non-essential reasons during a global pandemic, it seems like the prudent, respectful, and mature thing to do would be to 1) camp in your own state or 2) wait until the other states lift the voluntary control measures.
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Assuming that emergency services aren't needed at any point (I once ended up in a rural ER after suffering a puncture wound during a remote camping/hiking trip). Rather than leaving your own state for non-essential reasons during a global pandemic, it seems like the prudent, respectful, and mature thing to do would be to 1) camp in your own state or 2) wait until the other states lift the voluntary control measures.
Though I don't necessarily agree, I understand the point you're making. We wouldn't be going in the next few weeks anyway so will reevaluate if/when we get to a point where we're considering it.
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We're wondering about renting a cabin somewhere in July or August, but I just don't know...
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We're wondering about renting a cabin somewhere in July or August, but I just don't know...
We still have an AirBnB reservation in early-mid August (no cancellation fee), but haven't booked anything else yet for that trip. I'm hopeful that we'll be able to do it, but it would require taking the family on planes. The destination is our planned early retirement area, so I'd really like to spend more time there (even if early retirement received a COVID-crash delay).
Definitely not willing to spring for plane tickets yet.
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I don’t use Airbnb anymore because of losing money if you need to cancel. We had nonstop tickets on southwest for August to get us to San Fran to go to Europe. We got our money back on no refundable tickets because they changed the flight by a couple of hours and it stopped in between. It took my son 90 minutes on the phone quoting DOT regulations. Now we are hoping Lot airlines does something similar or cancels so we can get a refund versus credit. No travel plans for at least a year.
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Our May flights to Italy have finally been cancelled, so we’re hoping to get our money back on that.
I’m not asking for refunds for several small tours we’d booked as I figure they’ve been hurt more than we have.
Maybe next year.
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My mom's 85th birthday is in a couple weeks. She lives in the same town as I do, and one of my sisters is staying with her now. The other lives a few hours away was diagnosed w/Covid in March and seems recovered.
We were supposed to be on a European river cruise/tour for this birthday, but that was cancelled long ago. The "stay at home" orders in our area look to be lifted by then, so I'd like to do something for this birthday. The beach a few hours one way, the mountains a few the other way, but is it worth taking that chance.
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My son had a wedding planned for June 17th. His fiancee is Canadian living in Canada, He graduates May 7th and planned on going to Canada. He can't travel to Canada, she can't travel to the US.
We bought Delta tickets on Mar 12 to Canada. My understanding from Delta is, we can cancel the tickets, and get a credit, on tickets to anywhere and must use them by the end of 2021.
His life is a bit on hold, He expected to find work in Canada after graduation. So, his marriage is delayed, his job prospect is delayed (chemistry degree). My wife is pushing him to get a job here in the US, he says, he wouldn't feel comfortable lying about his future, getting a chemistry job and then a few months later, leaving the job for Canada. I'm with him, he has ethics from me, mom would do what's in her best interest.
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I don’t use Airbnb anymore because of losing money if you need to cancel. We had nonstop tickets on southwest for August to get us to San Fran to go to Europe. We got our money back on no refundable tickets because they changed the flight by a couple of hours and it stopped in between. It took my son 90 minutes on the phone quoting DOT regulations. Now we are hoping Lot airlines does something similar or cancels so we can get a refund versus credit. No travel plans for at least a year.
That is annoying but the best argument against Airbnb is that it's mostly these awful condos with bargain basement amenities that are given next to zero upkeep. If the company sticks around, I'm hoping these professional hosts with a portfolio of shitty properties are driven into bankruptcy and that the platform skews back toward people who rent their homes with pride.
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I don’t use Airbnb anymore because of losing money if you need to cancel. We had nonstop tickets on southwest for August to get us to San Fran to go to Europe. We got our money back on no refundable tickets because they changed the flight by a couple of hours and it stopped in between. It took my son 90 minutes on the phone quoting DOT regulations. Now we are hoping Lot airlines does something similar or cancels so we can get a refund versus credit. No travel plans for at least a year.
That is annoying but the best argument against Airbnb is that it's mostly these awful condos with bargain basement amenities that are given next to zero upkeep. If the company sticks around, I'm hoping these professional hosts with a portfolio of shitty properties are driven into bankruptcy and that the platform skews back toward people who rent their homes with pride.
I wish it would turn into actually BnB - where people rent a room in their home, rather than turning it over. Makes a big difference in the neighborhood, and in some places, a big difference to local housing prices.
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I have certainly learned through all of this NOT to use third party vendors. I booked a ticket through Flyus.com because I found a great price through them for a flight, but apparently USDOT regulations somehow do not apply to ticket/travel agencies if a flight is cancelled. They are apparently welcome to comply, but are not obligated. So like, if you buy through the airline directly and they cancel (not you) they are required to give you a refund if you request it, but the travel agency is not....which leads me to question whether the travel agency gets to keep the money (if they choose) the airline is obligated to refund? I guess that wouldn't happen, the customer would choose a voucher in an attempt/hope that they may use that voucher, but if they never did, the airline would just keep the profit ultimately.
The situation is super disadvantageous, though, and I regret having saved a dozen or two dollars by booking through Flyus rather than directly with the airline. In situations like this, they are just a detriment, serving as an extra middle man trying to prevent you from getting the relief you are requesting, when it's already hard enough to get any consumer protection directly from an airline! No reason to add extra obstacles!
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I have certainly learned through all of this NOT to use third party vendors. I booked a ticket through Flyus.com because I found a great price through them for a flight, but apparently USDOT regulations somehow do not apply to ticket/travel agencies if a flight is cancelled. They are apparently welcome to comply, but are not obligated. So like, if you buy through the airline directly and they cancel (not you) they are required to give you a refund if you request it, but the travel agency is not....which leads me to question whether the travel agency gets to keep the money (if they choose) the airline is obligated to refund? I guess that wouldn't happen, the customer would choose a voucher in an attempt/hope that they may use that voucher, but if they never did, the airline would just keep the profit ultimately.
The situation is super disadvantageous, though, and I regret having saved a dozen or two dollars by booking through Flyus rather than directly with the airline. In situations like this, they are just a detriment, serving as an extra middle man trying to prevent you from getting the relief you are requesting, when it's already hard enough to get any consumer protection directly from an airline! No reason to add extra obstacles!
My experience with Orbitz was pretty much the opposite. I called asking for help with cancellation, and they actually alerted me to the fact that the airline had changed my outbound flight by more than an hour, and thus I was eligible for a full refund for that leg of my trip. Of course I don't get the Orbitz fee refunded, but that was only about 7 bucks per ticket.
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We had a free-ish Disney trip planned for September that we will not be taking unless by miracle (of deity or of science, I'm not picky) so we aren't really out much money, luckily.
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We had some stuff booked through AirBnB in Italy next month, and I just got a notice saying that *they* were canceling and refunding our money. We’ll see.
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We are tentatively planning a road trip to see my mom for her birthday in a month. We will only go if both states are opened up, and as long as neither area develops into a hotspot (both our respective counties have few cases).
We will also strictly isolate for 2 weeks before going.
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We have a beach trip with family planned for late July. Rentals and beaches are currently open at our destination (Hilton Head).
Of the four couples attending, two of us always drive, one normally flies but could drive, and the other couple realistically has to fly. Once there, we typically spend most of our time hanging out at the house and on the beach, so it's easy to avoid crowds except at the grocery store. We typically go out for a restaurant meal or two, but we could easily skip that with minimal impact to the overall experience.
I'm just waiting to see what happens with cases (at our destination and nationally) and reopening statuses between now and then. I suspect things will blow up as states start re-opening, making it a more obvious decision, but hopefully I'm wrong.
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We have cancelled all three of our trips this year. It's a bummer, but I also think we'll still have an amazing summer at home. Willing to spend some decent money on gear to have fun at home. Especially since our big ticket vacations are cancelled!
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Now that it has been 2 month since this thread started is anyone making current plans to travel within their own country? I'm in USA so big area and many places are starting to open up (not here in Calif yet). I don't have any plans to take a plane or any crowded mode of transportation myself, but I'd really like to do a camping road trip this month. Campgrounds are still closed as are most hiking biking kinds of places like Nat and State Parks, but I've started to look for a vacation rental house in one place but still seems dicey.
We were talking about this yesterday. I guess no summer vacation for us. I cannot imagine CA opening up soon enough. If it weren't for the virus, it would be a perfect time to drive to the East coast and visit the lake and work from there with the kids. But too risky with the elderly relatives we would be visiting.
Yeah it looks like Calif will be shut down a bit more starting today according to Gov. Newsom. Don't blame him as it was CRAZY here in Surf City and elsewhere over the hot weekend. I stayed far far away. Well a couple of miles at least ;-). My plan was to leave this weekend and just stay in state but head north. Now I'm not sure. I'm going alone or with one other person and looking at a rental cabin or whole house vacation rental. Most only do it monthly now as short term tentals, other than some motels, haven't been allowed. Would also love to head to New England via car but I think that's off the table for now.
Yeah, it wasn't as bad here in Santa Barbara as it was down south in OC, but for sure there will still a lot of people up here from Los Angeles. That kind of pisses me off because we ALMOST had our beaches closed because of it.
Generally, it seems like *most* of the locals are distancing (except for some younger people), but the tourists, not so much.
I haven't been to the beach at all, and I would like to go. But my thoughts are...
1. I'm slightly introverted, my family moreso.
2. We have a house with AC and a small backyard. Thus...
3. We are (mostly) fine staying at home, having water fights in the back, hanging in the hammock. I go for runs and walks in the neighborhood.
4. My friends who are extroverted are STRUGGLING. They REALLY want to go to the beach, on hikes, or to travel. Some of them are out of work and under a great deal of stress from that.
5. My friends who are stuck in small apartments with no AC really need to go to the beach/ take their kids out.
I just don't see that this is going to lighten up enough for us to do anything this summer. Or even this winter.
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I was bewildered to hear from elderly relatives (early 70s) that they are planning a week long hotel stay in Vermont in early summer. What is going on? Are hotels really starting to open back up that soon?
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If things start looking better we might go on a camping summer vacation in either Virginia or Maine.
If things look way better and Canada relaxes restrictions we would go to Niagara Falls in August like we wanted to before this.
Pretty much no matter where we go, its going to be a one or two week beforehand decision, with a lot of monitoring before we go.
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If things start looking better we might go on a camping summer vacation in either Virginia or Maine.
If things look way better and Canada relaxes restrictions we would go to Niagara Falls in August like we wanted to before this.
Pretty much no matter where we go, its going to be a one or two week beforehand decision, with a lot of monitoring before we go.
August 2021 should be fine for your visit. ;-)
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I canceled a trip in may and delta gave me a credit good for two years.
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If things start looking better we might go on a camping summer vacation in either Virginia or Maine.
If things look way better and Canada relaxes restrictions we would go to Niagara Falls in August like we wanted to before this.
Pretty much no matter where we go, its going to be a one or two week beforehand decision, with a lot of monitoring before we go.
August 2021 should be fine for your visit. ;-)
Haha! I like the optimism :)
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I canceled a trip in may and delta gave me a credit good for two years.
I did the same with United. It's wild that refunds are so hard to come by in the airline industry. Refundable tickets can be 3x or 4x the price of non-refundable tickets (and then require a cancellation fee) making it hardly worth it. And insurance isn't going to help if you decide not to fly. It's a total racket.
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I have a UP Michigan trip planned for the end of August that will probably be turned into a staycation.
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Family in our neighborhood just left for vacation, to the beach with their 4 kids and another family with children. It’s not spring break or summer vacation so they all altered their plans to add a trip.
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We were planning on visiting the USA again, but won't be now until at least 2022 and we will see how everything plays out before we make a decision. We may choose somewhere else. Otherwise it's domestic Australian travel for us for now....eventually. (we hope to go away in our own state to the beach later in the year.)
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2020 was supposed to be a big year for me, planned a 60 day roadtrip from NC to Tuktayaktuk and all around Alaska, I would have been leaving in mid-July. With so much uncertainty, I am shelving the Canada/Alaska roadtrip.
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2020 was supposed to be a big year for me, planned a 60 day roadtrip from NC to Tuktayaktuk and all around Alaska, I would have been leaving in mid-July. With so much uncertainty, I am shelving the Canada/Alaska roadtrip.
That's a great long road trip. Too bad you have to cancel it but I can understand why. You'd be passing thru many states/provinces, and staying in multiple areas and many small towns. I'm going to just do an in-state (Calif) road trip and will be fairly isolated (even more so then staying here) so hope there aren't any issues. My main concern (this is probably TMI) but is access to public bathrooms. Before covid days when you had to "go" there was always a store, gas station, restaurant, park, rest stop, etc open. Now they are closed so long drives could he an issue.
I am a bit concerned about this too as I will be making an eight hour drive to my vacation this year. At least that is the plan at the moment. It's not until August, so fingers crossed that things will be open along the way by then. This is where guys have an advantage. I have heard that there are contraptions that allow a woman to pee standing up, but have never looked into it. Then there's always Depends. Just Kidding!
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2020 was supposed to be a big year for me, planned a 60 day roadtrip from NC to Tuktayaktuk and all around Alaska, I would have been leaving in mid-July. With so much uncertainty, I am shelving the Canada/Alaska roadtrip.
That's a great long road trip. Too bad you have to cancel it but I can understand why. You'd be passing thru many states/provinces, and staying in multiple areas and many small towns. I'm going to just do an in-state (Calif) road trip and will be fairly isolated (even more so then staying here) so hope there aren't any issues. My main concern (this is probably TMI) but is access to public bathrooms. Before covid days when you had to "go" there was always a store, gas station, restaurant, park, rest stop, etc open. Now they are closed so long drives could he an issue.
I am a bit concerned about this too as I will be making an eight hour drive to my vacation this year. At least that is the plan at the moment. It's not until August, so fingers crossed that things will be open along the way by then. This is where guys have an advantage. I have heard that there are contraptions that allow a woman to pee standing up, but have never looked into it. Then there's always Depends. Just Kidding!
This is something we'll have to adapt to as well. We drove 13,000 miles across the country last year over 90 days and not once did either of us have to go #2 in the wild. This year things will be vastly different. Not only will many public bathrooms be closed but I'm not sure we'll trust the ones that are if there's no air circulation in there. For all you know someone with the virus occupied a stall for 10+ minutes and left 2 minutes before you walked in. If you're using the stall yourself for an extended period of time it seems highly likely that you'd pick it up.
We're going to have to be a little more creative this year but that's okay. I've pooped in the woods before while hiking the Appalachian Trail and it's really not as bad as you'd think. I found the privies along the trail so gross that I swore them off in favor of going "au naturale."
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2020 was supposed to be a big year for me, planned a 60 day roadtrip from NC to Tuktayaktuk and all around Alaska, I would have been leaving in mid-July. With so much uncertainty, I am shelving the Canada/Alaska roadtrip.
That's a great long road trip. Too bad you have to cancel it but I can understand why. You'd be passing thru many states/provinces, and staying in multiple areas and many small towns. I'm going to just do an in-state (Calif) road trip and will be fairly isolated (even more so then staying here) so hope there aren't any issues. My main concern (this is probably TMI) but is access to public bathrooms. Before covid days when you had to "go" there was always a store, gas station, restaurant, park, rest stop, etc open. Now they are closed so long drives could he an issue.
I am a bit concerned about this too as I will be making an eight hour drive to my vacation this year. At least that is the plan at the moment. It's not until August, so fingers crossed that things will be open along the way by then. This is where guys have an advantage. I have heard that there are contraptions that allow a woman to pee standing up, but have never looked into it. Then there's always Depends. Just Kidding!
This is something we'll have to adapt to as well. We drove 13,000 miles across the country last year over 90 days and not once did either of us have to go #2 in the wild. This year things will be vastly different. Not only will many public bathrooms be closed but I'm not sure we'll trust the ones that are if there's no air circulation in there. For all you know someone with the virus occupied a stall for 10+ minutes and left 2 minutes before you walked in. If you're using the stall yourself for an extended period of time it seems highly likely that you'd pick it up.
We're going to have to be a little more creative this year but that's okay. I've pooped in the woods before while hiking the Appalachian Trail and it's really not as bad as you'd think. I found the privies along the trail so gross that I swore them off in favor of going "au naturale."
For those in the northeastern US and the Appalachians, the leaves of striped maple (Acer pensylvanicum) = nature's toilet paper. Almost better than the real thing.
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For road trips, I heard about this on a podcast (Young House Love -- typically about home improvement, but in this case they were discussing how they're going to make the drive from Virginia to Florida when it's time to move. Juuuust before all this started, they sold their VA houses and consolidated to buy one in FL.) I haven't tried it myself, but I've purchased a few of their (unrelated) recommendations in the past and have been thrilled with them.
https://www.amazon.com/Travel-John-66911-TravelJohn-Disposable-Urinal/dp/B000NV878S/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=travel+john&qid=1589070654&sr=8-3
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The only thing that will get me to travel in the next year or so is if work makes me travel. So far they seem to be sensible and all meetings have been changed to virtual format. There is an annual conference I usually go to in the fall to hang out with other colleagues in my profession, but thankfully I hadn't registered for it yet. It's in October and they still haven't decided if it will be live or switch to virtual. They will probably lose a lot of money from the hotel and conference venue.
An acquaintance is committed to giving a few presentations at that conference, and she's stressing out because her company is no longer paying for employees to travel to conferences for the rest of the year, and she doesn't want to take the risk, anyway.
My cousin is a flight attendant, and has taken a leave of absence.
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I definitely benefited from a FUD (feminine urinary device) at times. Memorably, on the hike up Kilimanjaro, which becomes a relatively lunar landscape near the top with only a rare boulder to go behind. It was nice just to be able to walk off trail and turn my back. But ultimately still more work to clean and maneuver around, so when backpacking where there are trees and rocks, I go without. Seems like a good back up plan just in case though, for the new, no public restroom world!
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I think we’ll be brave and drive to Wisconsin at some point this summer, and just use the bathrooms at the rest stops. We will definitely pack our own food.
But really, I don’t know what it will be like by July. Massive uncertainty.
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My office is closed until August so I'm most likely driving half way across country to visit my parents. I'm going to try to isolate for a week before fully moving into the house - sleep in my van, work on the deck (should be able to get wifi out there), not sure what to do about bathroom.
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The wife and I were talking about it.
We are full stop on air travel, for the foreseeable future. Even if we were to have positive antibody tests (we can leave how trustworthy the results are aside for now) and there is decent data to say that confers immunity. Neither of us really enjoy air travel and from what I have read air travel is even more tense/stressful now.
As for driving, we are talking about what to do when things really start to return to normal; we would both like to have a break. In reality we don't anticipate feeling comfortable doing with this (in an inter-state manner) until at least 2021. Even if there was no risk to ourselves, I imagine traveling before that for pleasure will just be socially awkward/stressful and many places will still be closed/limited. Plus many states have a quarantine when coming from out of state.
Within the state we are still taking day trips, most a weekend trip to a different area for a ~10 mile hike (other than passing people on the trail we don't see or interact with anyone). Perhaps when accomodations start to reopen and we will consider a longer jaunt with an overnight stay. But that will depend on how things play out in this state.
It has been a while since I have seen my parents, tomorrow is my grandmother's birthday, 1 now have a 1-week old niece, and my BIL and his wife just moved for a new job. We very much would like to visit my parents, celebrate my grandmother's birthday, meet my niece, and see the BIL's new home, but all of those trips are on an indefinite hold (the closest of those would be a 1,300 mile trip).
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For those of you fighting with AirBnB, did you ever get it resolved? My wife and I had a trip booked to USA in middle March and cancelled less than a week before going. That meant $0 refund from the host, according to their rules. They were quiet dicks about it so we took our troubles to corporate. AirBnB itself were great. Refunded us the whole cost.
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For those of you fighting with AirBnB, did you ever get it resolved? My wife and I had a trip booked to USA in middle March and cancelled less than a week before going. That meant $0 refund from the host, according to their rules. They were quiet dicks about it so we took our troubles to corporate. AirBnB itself were great. Refunded us the whole cost.
I wouldn't be so quick to call the hosts dicks. You knew the rules when you booked the trip, and the pandemic wasn't their fault any more than it was yours.
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2020 was supposed to be a big year for me, planned a 60 day roadtrip from NC to Tuktayaktuk and all around Alaska, I would have been leaving in mid-July. With so much uncertainty, I am shelving the Canada/Alaska roadtrip.
That's a great long road trip. Too bad you have to cancel it but I can understand why. You'd be passing thru many states/provinces, and staying in multiple areas and many small towns. I'm going to just do an in-state (Calif) road trip and will be fairly isolated (even more so then staying here) so hope there aren't any issues. My main concern (this is probably TMI) but is access to public bathrooms. Before covid days when you had to "go" there was always a store, gas station, restaurant, park, rest stop, etc open. Now they are closed so long drives could he an issue.
I am a bit concerned about this too as I will be making an eight hour drive to my vacation this year. At least that is the plan at the moment. It's not until August, so fingers crossed that things will be open along the way by then. This is where guys have an advantage. I have heard that there are contraptions that allow a woman to pee standing up, but have never looked into it. Then there's always Depends. Just Kidding!
This is something we'll have to adapt to as well. We drove 13,000 miles across the country last year over 90 days and not once did either of us have to go #2 in the wild. This year things will be vastly different. Not only will many public bathrooms be closed but I'm not sure we'll trust the ones that are if there's no air circulation in there. For all you know someone with the virus occupied a stall for 10+ minutes and left 2 minutes before you walked in. If you're using the stall yourself for an extended period of time it seems highly likely that you'd pick it up.
We're going to have to be a little more creative this year but that's okay. I've pooped in the woods before while hiking the Appalachian Trail and it's really not as bad as you'd think. I found the privies along the trail so gross that I swore them off in favor of going "au naturale."
FYI, a WAG bag is a great option. They're mandatory in some backcountry situations and are a better alternative than the emergency plastic bag option.
How to Use a W.A.G. Bag: Leave No Trace Skills Series:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpiX07wPKgE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpiX07wPKgE)
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Ya, instead of out road trip planned right now, we are on a covid vacation, not too bad, making good food, binge watched 3% tv show, and just started latered carbon.
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I cancelled an Air BnB reservation for mid-May. I had paid half so far, with the rest due at the end of April. The host refused to refund me, so I lost a little over $500. I think I will try calling Air BnB tomorrow, based on what you guys have said. Can't hurt.
Definitely can't.
I figure, best case - this thing fades more quickly than anyone thinks and I re-book my tix to go in June!
Medium case - this doesn't happen and AirBNB extends the cancellation refund to end June.
Worst case - I'm out $1000.
I could, possibly, change the AirBNB to next year. That's another option. I really want to go back to Kauai!!
Welp,
Got an email from the hosts today, as Kauai has extended their 14 day quarantine until the end of June. They offered to change or cancel. I am choosing to cancel, with the hopes of re-booking the same place next summer. If everything is calmed down by then.
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It's official, no work travel allowed at least until August, so I'm completely off the hook. Not that I was going, but now I'm not going and will not get any grief for it.
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Our new-to-us RV is still sitting in the driveway. Interestingly, the original owner replaced the batteries in 2018, but one of them failed, so DH replaced them last week. Turns out our little Sprinter is full of poison pills. If you remove the batteries, the ignition locks up completely. It's a hassle to reset. The key fobs don't work either, but we think that's related to the fancy alarm system that's apparently responding to the locked ignition We would probably have learned this out on the road somewhere, so I guess we're lucky it happened in our driveway. We're deliberately not making plans, because we don't want to create a burning desire to go anywhere.
Thank goodness DH is a DIY pro or this thing would bleed us dry.
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I finally cancelled the last leg of our air travel yesterday. I found out that the airline had rescheduled it by more than an hour, so we were eligible for a full refund. So out of a planned total trip cost of around $5,700, we're only out the following:
$25 cancellation fee for one of our lodging nights
$7 and change booking fee for the third party site that booked our air travel
$64 premium for flight cancellation insurance (which we didn't use because the airlines refunded us directly)
We had pre-paid around $2k of the total planned trip cost, so I consider us very lucky to only be out a little less than a hundred bucks. Every entity we dealt with lived up to their cancellation terms. One hotel even refunded our money even though it was a pre-paid, no refund room (and I didn't ask them to refund the money).
We've had some very tentative discussions about going somewhere in the fall, but we're not even close to making any concrete plans.
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Our motor home would have been a money pit if not for a handy husband. Ours only got 9mpg. Ugh!
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I was bewildered to hear from elderly relatives (early 70s) that they are planning a week long hotel stay in Vermont in early summer. What is going on? Are hotels really starting to open back up that soon?
Many hotels and B and B's never closed. I'm not sure what the directive was/is in Vermont, but in my state, lodging outside of State Parks never shut down.
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It's official, no work travel allowed at least until August, so I'm completely off the hook. Not that I was going, but now I'm not going and will not get any grief for it.
I work for a University and they just told us no out of state travel will be approved for the Fall semester. So nothing out of state until at least January.
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We just cancelled our month long trip to Maui. We got all of our refunds back but it's a trip we really wanted. Oh well, always next year.
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For those of you fighting with AirBnB, did you ever get it resolved? My wife and I had a trip booked to USA in middle March and cancelled less than a week before going. That meant $0 refund from the host, according to their rules. They were quiet dicks about it so we took our troubles to corporate. AirBnB itself were great. Refunded us the whole cost.
I was finally approved for a refund from Air BnB for a trip that was supposed to happen this weekend, but still have not seen a credit on my credit card.
I still have two Air BnB reservations in France for October. I reached out to both hosts for refunds, but was refused. So, I will wait and see what happens closer to then. The trip will definitely not be happening, but hopefully Air BnB will extend their extenuating circumstance policy so I can get a refund.
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For those of you fighting with AirBnB, did you ever get it resolved? My wife and I had a trip booked to USA in middle March and cancelled less than a week before going. That meant $0 refund from the host, according to their rules. They were quiet dicks about it so we took our troubles to corporate. AirBnB itself were great. Refunded us the whole cost.
I wouldn't be so quick to call the hosts dicks. You knew the rules when you booked the trip, and the pandemic wasn't their fault any more than it was yours.
Hosts seem like dicks to me. It was cancelled due to the pandemic, so refund the money fully. The normal argument is that if not cancelled the booking could have been given to someone else. But not in this case. Very wrong to keep that money when the customer enjoys no benefit. That’s just bad, greedy business and not the attitude when people need their money. So if they’re going to punish the guest for taking the chance and booking with them then they deserve to be called out for being dicks.
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For those of you fighting with AirBnB, did you ever get it resolved? My wife and I had a trip booked to USA in middle March and cancelled less than a week before going. That meant $0 refund from the host, according to their rules. They were quiet dicks about it so we took our troubles to corporate. AirBnB itself were great. Refunded us the whole cost.
I wouldn't be so quick to call the hosts dicks. You knew the rules when you booked the trip, and the pandemic wasn't their fault any more than it was yours.
Hosts seem like dicks to me. It was cancelled due to the pandemic, so refund the money fully. The normal argument is that if not cancelled the booking could have been given to someone else. But not in this case. Very wrong to keep that money when the customer enjoys no benefit. That’s just bad, greedy business and not the attitude when people need their money. So if they’re going to punish the guest for taking the chance and booking with them then they deserve to be called out for being dicks.
The "hosts" (ie the business owners) were legally in the right and may have lost their main source of income for a year or more. Maybe they can't afford the charitable gift, or prefer to give to a different cause?
The situation is no-one's fault, so surely this is the situation that travel insurance was designed for? (Although of course the travel insurance companies are going to the small print too, and not many people read the small print before buying which itself is a problem - particularly for those who just go for the cheapest quote without comparing what is actually covered.)
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For those of you fighting with AirBnB, did you ever get it resolved? My wife and I had a trip booked to USA in middle March and cancelled less than a week before going. That meant $0 refund from the host, according to their rules. They were quiet dicks about it so we took our troubles to corporate. AirBnB itself were great. Refunded us the whole cost.
I wouldn't be so quick to call the hosts dicks. You knew the rules when you booked the trip, and the pandemic wasn't their fault any more than it was yours.
Hosts seem like dicks to me. It was cancelled due to the pandemic, so refund the money fully. The normal argument is that if not cancelled the booking could have been given to someone else. But not in this case. Very wrong to keep that money when the customer enjoys no benefit. That’s just bad, greedy business and not the attitude when people need their money. So if they’re going to punish the guest for taking the chance and booking with them then they deserve to be called out for being dicks.
The "hosts" (ie the business owners) were legally in the right and may have lost their main source of income for a year or more. Maybe they can't afford the charitable gift, or prefer to give to a different cause?
The situation is no-one's fault, so surely this is the situation that travel insurance was designed for? (Although of course the travel insurance companies are going to the small print too, and not many people read the small print before buying which itself is a problem - particularly for those who just go for the cheapest quote without comparing what is actually covered.)
There are too many different circumstances to say that the hosts were legally in the right. Depending on the timing and location, there are plenty of places where it would not have legal to stay in an AirBnB. In those cases a refund would legally be required, since the business could not offer the product that they had accepted money for.
One can just as easily put the burden of insurance on businesses. Business interruption insurance is a real thing, and can cover pandemics (see for example Wimbledon). It is not the consumers fault if the business does not carry such insurance.
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For those of you fighting with AirBnB, did you ever get it resolved? My wife and I had a trip booked to USA in middle March and cancelled less than a week before going. That meant $0 refund from the host, according to their rules. They were quiet dicks about it so we took our troubles to corporate. AirBnB itself were great. Refunded us the whole cost.
I wouldn't be so quick to call the hosts dicks. You knew the rules when you booked the trip, and the pandemic wasn't their fault any more than it was yours.
Hosts seem like dicks to me. It was cancelled due to the pandemic, so refund the money fully. The normal argument is that if not cancelled the booking could have been given to someone else. But not in this case. Very wrong to keep that money when the customer enjoys no benefit. That’s just bad, greedy business and not the attitude when people need their money. So if they’re going to punish the guest for taking the chance and booking with them then they deserve to be called out for being dicks.
The "hosts" (ie the business owners) were legally in the right and may have lost their main source of income for a year or more. Maybe they can't afford the charitable gift, or prefer to give to a different cause?
The situation is no-one's fault, so surely this is the situation that travel insurance was designed for? (Although of course the travel insurance companies are going to the small print too, and not many people read the small print before buying which itself is a problem - particularly for those who just go for the cheapest quote without comparing what is actually covered.)
There are too many different circumstances to say that the hosts were legally in the right. Depending on the timing and location, there are plenty of places where it would not have legal to stay in an AirBnB. In those cases a refund would legally be required, since the business could not offer the product that they had accepted money for.
One can just as easily put the burden of insurance on businesses. Business interruption insurance is a real thing, and can cover pandemics (see for example Wimbledon). It is not the consumers fault if the business does not carry such insurance.
I was going by jouer saying the hosts were within the rules to refuse repayment. If the rules put the risk on the buyer then it's for the buyer to cover with insurance, if the rules put the risk on the business then I agree it's for the business to insure. I would guess that in future any accommodation business wanting advance bookings and goodwill would be looking to do that.
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For those of you fighting with AirBnB, did you ever get it resolved? My wife and I had a trip booked to USA in middle March and cancelled less than a week before going. That meant $0 refund from the host, according to their rules. They were quiet dicks about it so we took our troubles to corporate. AirBnB itself were great. Refunded us the whole cost.
I wouldn't be so quick to call the hosts dicks. You knew the rules when you booked the trip, and the pandemic wasn't their fault any more than it was yours.
Hosts seem like dicks to me. It was cancelled due to the pandemic, so refund the money fully. The normal argument is that if not cancelled the booking could have been given to someone else. But not in this case. Very wrong to keep that money when the customer enjoys no benefit. That’s just bad, greedy business and not the attitude when people need their money. So if they’re going to punish the guest for taking the chance and booking with them then they deserve to be called out for being dicks.
The "hosts" (ie the business owners) were legally in the right and may have lost their main source of income for a year or more. Maybe they can't afford the charitable gift, or prefer to give to a different cause?
The situation is no-one's fault, so surely this is the situation that travel insurance was designed for? (Although of course the travel insurance companies are going to the small print too, and not many people read the small print before buying which itself is a problem - particularly for those who just go for the cheapest quote without comparing what is actually covered.)
There are too many different circumstances to say that the hosts were legally in the right. Depending on the timing and location, there are plenty of places where it would not have legal to stay in an AirBnB. In those cases a refund would legally be required, since the business could not offer the product that they had accepted money for.
One can just as easily put the burden of insurance on businesses. Business interruption insurance is a real thing, and can cover pandemics (see for example Wimbledon). It is not the consumers fault if the business does not carry such insurance.
I was going by jouer saying the hosts were within the rules to refuse repayment. If the rules put the risk on the buyer then it's for the buyer to cover with insurance, if the rules put the risk on the business then I agree it's for the business to insure. I would guess that in future any accommodation business wanting advance bookings and goodwill would be looking to do that.
Air BnB, the company, is over riding it's hosts policies and refunding non-refundable deposits even where the host has refused. So, good on them. They make you jump through lots of hoops to get there, but at least they are trying to keep their reputation for customer service intact. They are also compensating the hosts for these losses. This is an unprecedented situation.
Air BnB started out on the premise of people renting out extra rooms or spaces in their own homes. Now people buy or lease lodgings specifically for Air BnB purposes, as a business. This is where the wheels fall off the bus in this situation, imho. Those people are looking at mortgages or lease payments with little or no income coming in. One host described it to me as a "disaster". I asked the host in Paris if I could just change my reservation to 2021, but she said she couldn't do that because she is giving up the apartment after the end of the year. Case in point. This is actually illegal in Paris, by the way. To have an apartment for Air BnB purposes. They are only supposed to rent out their own place for a limited number of weeks per year, and live there themselves the rest of the year.
One thing is for sure, I will never book an Air BnB (or VRBO) again that doesn't have a liberal cancellation policy. Interestingly, they now have a filter for this.
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Lots of Nat Parks starting to open today. Trails, bathrooms and some camping sites. Here's a site that tracks Nat Parks in all states and seems to update daily. For example: I'm heading out today to Joshua Tree in Cali which opened today with hiking, climbing, parking, bathrooms, and family camping. No entrance fees right now either. Grand Canyon and some others are open too but very limited hours for hiking only.
https://www.nps.gov/planyourvisit/alerts.htm
I'm going to check out Yellowstone tomorrow. It's quite a drive - all accommodation including camping is closed so it's a day trip for everyone.
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For those of you fighting with AirBnB, did you ever get it resolved? My wife and I had a trip booked to USA in middle March and cancelled less than a week before going. That meant $0 refund from the host, according to their rules. They were quiet dicks about it so we took our troubles to corporate. AirBnB itself were great. Refunded us the whole cost.
I wouldn't be so quick to call the hosts dicks. You knew the rules when you booked the trip, and the pandemic wasn't their fault any more than it was yours.
Hosts seem like dicks to me. It was cancelled due to the pandemic, so refund the money fully. The normal argument is that if not cancelled the booking could have been given to someone else. But not in this case. Very wrong to keep that money when the customer enjoys no benefit. That’s just bad, greedy business and not the attitude when people need their money. So if they’re going to punish the guest for taking the chance and booking with them then they deserve to be called out for being dicks.
The "hosts" (ie the business owners) were legally in the right and may have lost their main source of income for a year or more. Maybe they can't afford the charitable gift, or prefer to give to a different cause?
The situation is no-one's fault, so surely this is the situation that travel insurance was designed for? (Although of course the travel insurance companies are going to the small print too, and not many people read the small print before buying which itself is a problem - particularly for those who just go for the cheapest quote without comparing what is actually covered.)
Yeah, this is a tricky bit. I gather it varies a lot by location. An AirBNB host with a nice beach cottage or cabin in the mountains within a few hours drive of Los Angeles can probably afford to have a more liberal cancellation - compared to our hosts in Kauai. Their cancellation policy is: you forfeit the deposit. However, I got word from AirBNB this weekend that they will refund our money due to the quarantine requirement.
Travel insurance, in general, does not cover pandemics. Shutting off the economy like this is going to hurt someone (everyone), but who?
Pandemics hurt everyone, yes, but the travelers should not eat the cost if they aren't able to go. If you cancel for other reasons (I don't feel like going), fine, eat the cost.
Had we not gotten refunded I would have immediately tried to rebook this exact same condo for next summer. I actually want to do that, but feel like it's smarter for me to wait until next spring to see how things are. It was supposed to be my 50th birthday trip. Well, 51st birthday next year or our 25th anniversary, whatever. Except the condo is 1BR with a sofabed, and next year my kids are gonna be 15 and 8. The 14 yo is almost bigger than me and he could grow a LOT in a year.
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COVID-19 has pushed me to re-evaluate some of my priorities and as a result, I decided to quit a couple of part-time gigs I really love in order to pursue other interests, one of which is to drive down to Mexico for the winter after exploring some of our favourite camping and hiking spots in the US Southwest, then go to Panama later in the spring. Problem is, the Canada-USA border is closed to non-essential travel so I need to think of something to do in the meantime. My wife would like us to spend some time in Okinawa where her family is. Tempting, but I really hate flying...I am looking at the option of sailing on a cargo ship, maybe a trans-Pacific cruise (eeewww), but the pickings are slim...
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I would really like to find travel options to get overseas without flying, for the long-term future. I won't be able to avoid it entirely (I assume), but I'd like to be confident and have easy ways to look up options, the same way we do for flying. Even as a FIREd person, I'm not sure I'll have the patience and time to get to places like Africa (from CA) without flying, even if there are reasonable options. But I'm very serious about minimizing flying more in the future. For so many reasons.
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I would really like to find travel options to get overseas without flying, for the long-term future. I won't be able to avoid it entirely (I assume), but I'd like to be confident and have easy ways to look up options, the same way we do for flying. Even as a FIREd person, I'm not sure I'll have the patience and time to get to places like Africa (from CA) without flying, even if there are reasonable options. But I'm very serious about minimizing flying more in the future. For so many reasons.
I'm really curious why you'd rather be on a ship than plane, given the horror stories of people trapped on cruise ships. Everything I've read suggests that if the plane is not at maximum capacity and you can maintain social distancing, it's not as much of a germ spreader as we initially assumed due to the way the air circulates and is filtered. Obviously it's not risk free, but once we get to the point where overseas travel seems worthwhile to me again, it seems WAY safer than a ship.
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I would really like to find travel options to get overseas without flying, for the long-term future. I won't be able to avoid it entirely (I assume), but I'd like to be confident and have easy ways to look up options, the same way we do for flying. Even as a FIREd person, I'm not sure I'll have the patience and time to get to places like Africa (from CA) without flying, even if there are reasonable options. But I'm very serious about minimizing flying more in the future. For so many reasons.
I'm really curious why you'd rather be on a ship than plane, given the horror stories of people trapped on cruise ships. Everything I've read suggests that if the plane is not at maximum capacity and you can maintain social distancing, it's not as much of a germ spreader as we initially assumed due to the way the air circulates and is filtered. Obviously it's not risk free, but once we get to the point where overseas travel seems worthwhile to me again, it seems WAY safer than a ship.
Most of my concerns aren't about health, and as I mentioined this is a long-term goal, not a pandemic-period goal. I think the airline industry is dangerously monopolistic which is a detriment to our economy and consumers and am not happy about the bailouts they've gotten during this period, followed by layoffs and preceded by stock buybacks, etc. I'm sick of being treated like shit by most of them and I continue to be concerned about the environmental impact. I'm hoping things don't just go straight back to normal in air travel after the pandemic.
But yeah, I'm definitely not getting on a boat, in particular a cruise ship, any time soon.
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I live in hope that air carriers in the US will look to improve their service. How they treat passengers. Greater leg room. Stop charging people add on fees. They are a monopoly, and they collude on pricing. It really has been difficult to see them get bailed out again, because they treat people like s*it.
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I live in hope that air carriers in the US will look to improve their service. How they treat passengers. Greater leg room. Stop charging people add on fees. They are a monopoly, and they collude on pricing. It really has been difficult to see them get bailed out again, because they treat people like s*it.
I've only flown Southwest for years and have no complaints (I also haven't actually paid for a flight in years due to credit rewards).
I dread flying international since I'd have to use one of the other airlines. Maybe Southwest will expand to Europe one day.
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I live in hope that air carriers in the US will look to improve their service. How they treat passengers. Greater leg room. Stop charging people add on fees. They are a monopoly, and they collude on pricing. It really has been difficult to see them get bailed out again, because they treat people like s*it.
I've only flown Southwest for years and have no complaints (I also haven't actually paid for a flight in years due to credit rewards).
I dread flying international since I'd have to use one of the other airlines. Maybe Southwest will expand to Europe one day.
This is my wish. I remember the days when we used to call Southwest "Southworst". But those days are long gone and they are by far my favorite noe. Luckily they do fly to a few places in Mexico, central America, maybe the Caribbean if I remember right. And I haven't had a chance to take them to Hawaii (obvs that's not international, but it was big news when they started those routes). And they make everything so easy. If possible, they are the only airline I'd fly, but lacking routes to Europe, Asia and Africa certainly limits things.
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Wow, lots of comments about my AirBnB comment about the hosts being dicks. A few things I'd like to clear up:
- this isn't a single family owning a second home; this is a corp owning multiple resort-like rentals
- I didn't call them dicks b/c they didn't refund us; they were dicks b/c of the way they spoke to us and handled things
- a business can be within their rights to do something, and still be dicks for doing it; that's how we decide to say fuck them and do business elsewhere. 'Within your rights' is the bare minimum expectation around these parts, not the definition of good service.
I'm glad my post sparked some comments, though. Cool to see how others think and see the situation.
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Another AirBnB question/issue - our visit to Southern CA for college tours set for mid-June is out. Our AirBnB host in LA refunded us 100%. The AirBnB host in San Diego will not. His response was this:
"Also, travel is fine. I have a lot of people/guests staying aboard throughout this time so the cancellation reason has nothing to do with travel not being open."
So... for those of you in CA (I'm looking at you, @spartana, @Dicey), is the host correct and travel has been happening as cavalierly as he is suggesting? My state just extended our 14 day quarantine for visitors/returning residents until the end of June so I kinda assumed travel was not yet back in full swing. Are we getting a skewed version of what is happening on the mainland? Thanks for any insight.
edited to fix poor bat signaling...
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Another AirBnB question/issue - our visit to Southern CA for college tours set for mid-June is out. Our AirBnB host in LA refunded us 100%. The AirBnB host in San Diego will not. His response was this:
"Also, travel is fine. I have a lot of people/guests staying aboard throughout this time so the cancellation reason has nothing to do with travel not being open."
So... for those of you in CA (I'm looking at you, spartana[/member]]@spartana (ftp://[member=14806), Dicey[/member]]@Dicey (ftp://[member=768)), is the host correct and travel has been happening as cavalierly as he is suggesting? My state just extended our 14 day quarantine for visitors/returning residents until the end of June so I kinda assumed travel was not yet back in full swing. Are we getting a skewed version of what is happening on the mainland? Thanks for any insight.
You should be able to get a refund through Air BnB's extenuating circumstance policy. They will make you jump through some hoops, though. You will have to submit documentation. The state 14 day quarantine policy should be enough.
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Another AirBnB question/issue - our visit to Southern CA for college tours set for mid-June is out. Our AirBnB host in LA refunded us 100%. The AirBnB host in San Diego will not. His response was this:
"Also, travel is fine. I have a lot of people/guests staying aboard throughout this time so the cancellation reason has nothing to do with travel not being open."
So... for those of you in CA (I'm looking at you, spartana[/member]]@spartana (ftp://[member=14806), Dicey[/member]]@Dicey (ftp://[member=768)), is the host correct and travel has been happening as cavalierly as he is suggesting? My state just extended our 14 day quarantine for visitors/returning residents until the end of June so I kinda assumed travel was not yet back in full swing. Are we getting a skewed version of what is happening on the mainland? Thanks for any insight.
You should be able to get a refund through Air BnB's extenuating circumstance policy. They will make you jump through some hoops, though. You will have to submit documentation. The state 14 day quarantine policy should be enough.
Yes, this is what I did for my Hawaii trip. I had to upload a screen shot of the current status of Hawaii (14 day quarantine). But they said they'd refund me (didn't check credit card to confirm).
Los Angeles still has a lot of cases, so I'm not surprised they refunded.
For San Diego, I would go to their local/ county website, and check the status. California is starting to reopen, but we are only on stage 2. So, if you are unable to do the things you are there to do, then you should be able to cancel.
https://www.sandiegocounty.gov/content/sdc/hhsa/programs/phs/community_epidemiology/dc/2019-nCoV/health-order.html
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I had a really long day yesterday, day tripping to Yellowstone. Least people I've ever seen by far - imagine a parking lot for 50 cars but only 2 or 3 there. Lots of pictures, including some wildlife shots...
https://thehotflashpacker.com/yellowstone-national-park-the-day-it-opened-post-covid/
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I had a really long day yesterday, day tripping to Yellowstone. Least people I've ever seen by far - imagine a parking lot for 50 cars but only 2 or 3 there. Lots of pictures, including some wildlife shots...
https://thehotflashpacker.com/yellowstone-national-park-the-day-it-opened-post-covid/
I just posted about your trip on your journal. I'm still undecided about going anywhere yet - at least somewhere far like Yellowstone - but I'd sure love to go now when so few people are around. In Calif only Joshua Tree and Redwoods Nat Parks are open, and only Joshua Tree allows camping.
And it's quickly becoming too hot for Joshua Tree. I've camped there in Feb, March, April, May (twice), November and September maybe? May was hot both times. April was the best, Feb was freezing. March is hit or miss. It was hot and windy once and on the cold side once.
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If anyone is hoping to camp closer to Yellowstone... the WY state parks are open. There's a really great campground near a reservior off the east entrance, only had a few campers when we drove by a few nights ago.
On sunday I'm relocating to my parent's house for a few weeks, and will drive by the Badlands on the way, thinking of doing a little detour there to break up the drive.
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We're wondering about renting a cabin somewhere in July or August, but I just don't know...
We still have an AirBnB reservation in early-mid August (no cancellation fee), but haven't booked anything else yet for that trip. I'm hopeful that we'll be able to do it, but it would require taking the family on planes. The destination is our planned early retirement area, so I'd really like to spend more time there (even if early retirement received a COVID-crash delay).
Definitely not willing to spring for plane tickets yet.
Well, I sprung for the plane tickets a couple of weeks ago. Price was dirt cheap and, as others have experienced, could be delayed without charge for at least a year. Unfortunately, yesterday my AirBnB cancelled on us due to their own COVID-19 concerns (at least they indicated their intention to cancel; they haven't officially done so through the site, so we haven't been refunded). So far, the available listings are much worse than that one.
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I would really like to find travel options to get overseas without flying, for the long-term future. I won't be able to avoid it entirely (I assume), but I'd like to be confident and have easy ways to look up options, the same way we do for flying. Even as a FIREd person, I'm not sure I'll have the patience and time to get to places like Africa (from CA) without flying, even if there are reasonable options. But I'm very serious about minimizing flying more in the future. For so many reasons.
I'm really curious why you'd rather be on a ship than plane, given the horror stories of people trapped on cruise ships. Everything I've read suggests that if the plane is not at maximum capacity and you can maintain social distancing, it's not as much of a germ spreader as we initially assumed due to the way the air circulates and is filtered. Obviously it's not risk free, but once we get to the point where overseas travel seems worthwhile to me again, it seems WAY safer than a ship.
Most of my concerns aren't about health, and as I mentioined this is a long-term goal, not a pandemic-period goal. I think the airline industry is dangerously monopolistic which is a detriment to our economy and consumers and am not happy about the bailouts they've gotten during this period, followed by layoffs and preceded by stock buybacks, etc. I'm sick of being treated like shit by most of them and I continue to be concerned about the environmental impact. I'm hoping things don't just go straight back to normal in air travel after the pandemic.
But yeah, I'm definitely not getting on a boat, in particular a cruise ship, any time soon.
There were a large amount of airlines to choose from before the pandemic. Ticket prices were very cheap compared to inflation, you could get to almost anywhere for a lower cost than anytime in history of the aviation industry.
There are yet to be any layoffs in the airline industry, the CARES Act prohibits layoffs until October 1, 2020. There will probably be tens of thousands after that date.
As far as stock buybacks are concerned. Airlines have two options, either repurchase shares (this mitigates a hostile takeover from vulture companies that want to use excess cash) or grow. It was good that airlines didn't grow as they would have even more overcapacity and losses than they do now. Stock buybacks aren't ideal, but do you have a better suggestion?
Regarding the environmental impact, aircraft have never been more efficient and the entire industry accounts for 4% of the total global carbon emissions. Theoretically, you can halt all aviation and it won't do anything to mitigate climate change.
I would assume air travel will get worse after the pandemic. Tickets will be more expensive and there will be much less flights to choose from. I doubt the employees that are left will care much for the fickle and hypochondriacal flying public.
You said in another post you like Southwest. For the few years leading up to COVID-19 they had highest cancellation rate of any major airline. Why did you like them so much?
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I am not buying that line on stock buybacks. They are a mechanism for executives to artificially inflate stock prices and extract value for themselves at the expense of the long-term health of the corporation, forcing them to count on the US taxpayer yet again the minute they stub a toe. To imagine the executives are motivated by preventing a theoretical hostile takeover and not lining their own pocket is naive. Regardless of the motivation, this cycle privatizes the benefits and socializes the inevitable losses, just like we are seeing now. Perhaps they should return the money to the US taxpayers for always covering their asses the next time they are suffering the distressing circumstance of excess cash. I'm sure we could figure out something better to do with it than enrich a handful of already very rich people.
Southwest: 1. Makes it far easier to use their rewards/points/miles than any other airline. 2. They have a generous cancellation policy - up to 10 minutes before the flight leaves, you can cancel your ticket and you lose not a single dollar. 3. There are no change fees. 4. They have the fastest turnover of airplanes in the business. 5. They have no bag fees. 6. They make seating easy. Their seating used to be the worst when they just had A, B and C, but now that each person has a place in line, there's no stress and no herd of people pushing up to be near the front the moment their boarding group is called as happens with other airlines now (even though those other airlines have assigned seats; this is now a function of the fact that people have to elbow their way in early to avoid their bags being checked due to lack of overhead space). 7. Not for nuthin', the culture of front line employees having genuine fun just feels better.
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I had a really long day yesterday, day tripping to Yellowstone. Least people I've ever seen by far - imagine a parking lot for 50 cars but only 2 or 3 there. Lots of pictures, including some wildlife shots...
https://thehotflashpacker.com/yellowstone-national-park-the-day-it-opened-post-covid/
I just posted about your trip on your journal. I'm still undecided about going anywhere yet - at least somewhere far like Yellowstone - but I'd sure love to go now when so few people are around. In Calif only Joshua Tree and Redwoods Nat Parks are open, and only Joshua Tree allows camping.
And it's quickly becoming too hot for Joshua Tree. I've camped there in Feb, March, April, May (twice), November and September maybe? May was hot both times. April was the best, Feb was freezing. March is hit or miss. It was hot and windy once and on the cold side once.
Yeah no way I'm going there now. Well over 100 this coming week. I'm more a cool weather coastal fog person or cold mountain person so the desert is done until the winter for me. Looks like lots of people renting RVs and vans now so it may be crowded everywhere anyways for road trips in the US.
Interesting. Are we crazy?
We are kind of sort of considering a trip. Here's the thing: we aren't planning on going anywhere, but maybe?
I was telling dh that it would be super nice if things calmed down enough to go somewhere by August. It would be really nice to go to upstate NY to visit family.
However, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense because his parents and their SOs are all in their 70s and 80s. Getting on a plane and visiting elderly folk seems like a bad idea.
So, husband says "well, my office has told us all that we are working from home as long as possible. I can work from anywhere. We could go for the whole summer, and just quarantine ourselves for 2 weeks when we get there." Still, we have the dog. Then we talked about driving (5 loooong days, ugh). But we could take the dog. This relies on the family (1) wanting us and (2) being willing to let us quarantine in the lakeside camp for 2 weeks. Right when they usually go there and use it.
There are other issues - obviously, we both still have to work full time while there. Would delay big kid getting braces off. I'd need temp health insurance because HMO. I mean, it seems crazy, right? Driving an old Matrix cross country with 4 people and a dog, twice? Plus, I'm not sure the kids would dig it at all. Nobody likes long car trips. And we'd have to be home 2 weeks before school starts so we can re-quarantine.
This is something I've thought about doing for years...maybe we should postpone it and do it in a summer or two, after COVID.
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I'll put in a good AirBnB host comment. We had serious cabin fever when we heard that the Alabama governor was holding a press conference on April 28 about opening the beaches beginning of May. Checked AirBnB cancellation policy which said that all reservations could be cancelled within 48 hours with full refunds. So we booked a condo about 30 hours before the press conference assuming that we would cancel if the opening didn't happen. The owner of the condo immediately called us after we booked to let us know the beaches were closed and she would refund us what we paid. She hadn't heard about the upcoming press conference. Said she had refunded all fees from the previous two months because of the pandemic.
It was a great short vacation. The condo hadn't been used in 60 days so no fear of any lingering germs, the beaches were not yet full, and we had a kitchen to cook all meals as many restaurants were still not open.
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I was bewildered to hear from elderly relatives (early 70s) that they are planning a week long hotel stay in Vermont in early summer. What is going on? Are hotels really starting to open back up that soon?
Many hotels and B and B's never closed. I'm not sure what the directive was/is in Vermont, but in my state, lodging outside of State Parks never shut down.
Vermont shut down hotels and other lodging options as of March 13, except in specific circumstances (like serving as a homeless shelter, lodging for health care workers working on COVID-related stuff, or as a quarantine site). Online reservations suspended. Places are allowed to start taking reservations for lodging starting June 15 but the quarantine restrictions are still pretty tight.
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I was bewildered to hear from elderly relatives (early 70s) that they are planning a week long hotel stay in Vermont in early summer. What is going on? Are hotels really starting to open back up that soon?
Many hotels and B and B's never closed. I'm not sure what the directive was/is in Vermont, but in my state, lodging outside of State Parks never shut down.
Vermont shut down hotels and other lodging options as of March 13, except in specific circumstances (like serving as a homeless shelter, lodging for health care workers working on COVID-related stuff, or as a quarantine site). Online reservations suspended. Places are allowed to start taking reservations for lodging starting June 15 but the quarantine restrictions are still pretty tight.
Yep, apparently many places are already booked up for July due to reduced capacity requirements.
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Upstate New York is beautiful! I would definitely spend the summer there.
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My in-laws lived in upstate New York and twice a year we drove 1600 miles with 3 kids in a small car. I realize you are coming twice the distance. We only stayed a week or two but you are staying much longer. Plus now there’s electronic devices and A/C.