Author Topic: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.  (Read 29893 times)

UltraRunning

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Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« on: December 28, 2014, 04:38:27 AM »
Hey 22 year old air force enlisted  plumber myself.  Just would be cool to share stories about the military lifestyle/ community. Along with the somewhat comical interactions we get on a daily basis due to living a mustachian lifestyle.
          For example I ride a bicycle to work everyday and always get sly comments from secfo at the gates. Also, my fellow airman in the shop will crack jokes from time to time all the while I actually feel sorry  for the guys due to most of their wife's are stay at home  with kids  and they are driving around 2014 trucks and suvs.  I know they must be up to eyes in debt.  Have tried to share with them  some times just about simply putting a little money into their tsp but  they are convinced that the sky will fall the day after they putting money away into their tsp.   
   Finally, for some strange reason the guys at the shop think I am a day trader and get asked about different companies like 3d printing and pot stocks and what my thoughts are on it.  I just tell them that I roll with index funds through vanguard and then their eyes glaze over and they walk away. 

lastlaugh

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2014, 08:47:19 AM »
My wife and I are both AD Air Force. (1N4A&B). We are both enlisted (E7 and E6) stationed at Lackland. We are working (and on track) to be completely FI (including Mortgage) by the time I retire in Oct 2018.
We started a journal because we didn't know where exactly on the forum to post our questions.
See our Journal here:   http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/lastlaugh's-road-to-fi/msg494483/#msg494483

Travis

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2014, 09:06:42 AM »
Army major here.  I don't get too much criticism since I'm one of the senior officers in my unit, but I got some odd looks when I sold my pickup truck earlier this year since I'm now one of just a few people in the unit that seem to not own one.  I haven't been able to turn anyone mustachian, but a few of my coworkers and subordinates are either decently frugal or committed investors.  One of them owns 4 homes and will be FI by the time he hits 20.  I should be pretty damn close myself.  It's been comforting that I can kick back with them after work and have a long conversation about finances and it doesn't get political or they think I'm strange.  The biggest thing I've been able to impart on some of my subordinates has been helping them with debt reduction strategies and figuring out "what next?" when they're close to paying it off. 

UltraRunning

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2014, 09:36:10 AM »
Army major here.  I don't get too much criticism since I'm one of the senior officers in my unit, but I got some odd looks when I sold my pickup truck earlier this year since I'm now one of just a few people in the unit that seem to not own one.  I haven't been able to turn anyone mustachian, but a few of my coworkers and subordinates are either decently frugal or committed investors.  One of them owns 4 homes and will be FI by the time he hits 20.  I should be pretty damn close myself.  It's been comforting that I can kick back with them after work and have a long conversation about finances and it doesn't get political or they think I'm strange.  The biggest thing I've been able to impart on some of my subordinates has been helping them with debt reduction strategies and figuring out "what next?" when they're close to paying it off.

That's really cool.  I sold my nissan frontier this past april to commute 100 percent by bike and received the same odd looks.  That is really neat to see that you have some fellow coworkers that do share similar views and ones that you can talk to and chill with after work. Also, must be a sweet feeling to help some of the younger guys coming up to get their finances straight so that they don't go down the path of purchasing a new huge truck (which seems to be all the craze in the military) every couple of years and be forever in debt. 
When did yourself start working towards financial independence? Always been frugal and a saver or what exactly lead you down this path?

UltraRunning

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2014, 09:41:30 AM »
My wife and I are both AD Air Force. (1N4A&B). We are both enlisted (E7 and E6) stationed at Lackland. We are working (and on track) to be completely FI (including Mortgage) by the time I retire in Oct 2018.
We started a journal because we didn't know where exactly on the forum to post our questions.
See our Journal here:   http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/lastlaugh's-road-to-fi/msg494483/#msg494483
[/quote
Very nice.  I am currently an E3 myself about to put on E4.  How are you guys enjoying the S.A. area?  I am at Shaw AFB myself. And you guys purchased a house? Is it in a location that you guys have a desire to retire to or are you Active Duty guard down in S.A. so you do not have to worry about moving and paying a mortgage from another location? What lead y'all down the path of F.I. ?

UltraRunning

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2014, 09:45:26 AM »
 @LastLaugh
  Very nice.  I am currently an E3 myself about to put on E4.  How are you guys enjoying the S.A. area?  I am at Shaw AFB myself. And you guys purchased a house? Is it in a location that you guys have a desire to retire to or are you Active Duty guard down in S.A. so you do not have to worry about moving and paying a mortgage from another location? What lead y'all down the path of F.I. ?

lastlaugh

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2014, 10:01:13 AM »
My entire life story is in the journal link I posted above. We are both Active Duty, not Guard or Reserve. We own investment properties in NC and VA, but not in San Antonio. Please, read the link and provide any advice you can!

As far as how we like San Antonio.....we don't. I'm not a city person at all. I grew up in a place where, if you could see your neighbors, they were too close. Living in San Antonio, (the 6th largest city in the US), is quite the opposite. We are crammed in here like rats. Houses are literally feet apart from one another. Traffic is a daily given at all hours of the day/night. Crime, especially smash and grab theft, is insane (We have been broken into 3 times in 1.5 yrs). This leads to having to deal with city people, which I also don't like! I'm not use to people being so rude and uncaring about how their actions affect others. Leaving dogs out to bark all night seems to be a given here, and when your house is only feet away, there is nothing you can do about it. (San Antonio has no law against barking dogs.). I also have never been treated the way I have here. The city is 86% hispanic. My wife and I, (both white), are not and we don't speak Spanish. This is often reflected in how we are treated in the community. No matter how hard you try, you are still an outsider here. Needless to say, we can't wait to move.



UltraRunning

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2014, 10:09:37 AM »
My entire life story is in the journal link I posted above. We are both Active Duty, not Guard or Reserve. We own investment properties in NC and VA, but not in San Antonio. Please, read the link and provide any advice you can!

As far as how we like San Antonio.....we don't. I'm not a city person at all. I grew up in a place where, if you could see your neighbors, they were too close. Living in San Antonio, (the 6th largest city in the US), is quite the opposite. We are crammed in here like rats. Houses are literally feet apart from one another. Traffic is a daily given at all hours of the day/night. Crime, especially smash and grab theft, is insane (We have been broken into 3 times in 1.5 yrs). This leads to having to deal with city people, which I also don't like! I'm not use to people being so rude and uncaring about how their actions affect others. Leaving dogs out to bark all night seems to be a given here, and when your house is only feet away, there is nothing you can do about it. (San Antonio has no law against barking dogs.). I also have never been treated the way I have here. The city is 86% hispanic. My wife and I, (both white), are not and we don't speak Spanish. This is often reflected in how we are treated in the community. No matter how hard you try, you are still an outsider here. Needless to say, we can't wait to move.
Sounds like y'all are having a lovely time down in san Antonio ;).  I will definitely check out that blog i overlooked the link.  Sorry about that.  Also, not to mention that it is not very hard to tell if you are military and your a guy.  We tend to stick out like sore thumbs -_- . I grew up in the country as well so i can definitely feel your pain there.  Luckily shaw is quite a small town so it is not too bad.

Travis

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2014, 10:14:29 AM »
Quote
When did yourself start working towards financial independence? Always been frugal and a saver or what exactly lead you down this path?

I've always been mindful of my spending, but I never really got into investing and working towards FI until a couple years ago.  Largely due to my rank and TIS I reached a point where my lifestyle expenses remained fairly steady and every promotion or raise was more money in the bank.  I made my share of mistakes along the way (such as the new truck), but I've never really been in debt.  Every vehicle I've ever owned I could have paid cash for, but instead I took a year to pay it off because at the time I had little to no credit history.  The financial mistakes I've made I was able to weather because I already had a foundation of not spending every dime I had.  I bought a house in 2009 that was way too big and I had to sell it just a couple years later.  I spent a fortune fixing up that house only to get rid of it.  I can't even begin to calculate how much money I threw away from not renting those two years, but so many of my peers were home owners and I felt that was the next step to take.  That and the truck were the largest spending mistakes of my life.  I spent most of my 20s being scared of the stock market and while I saved a lot, it was all cash and bonds.  I tried managed investing and the guy wasted a year of my life putting me info high-fee funds that did nothing.  Three years ago I discovered YNAB and stopped the rest of my bleeding.  A year after that I discovered MMM, the Bogleheads, and Vanguard.  I still have 8 years before I hit 20, and they way things are going in the Army I can't afford to think making it to 20 is guaranteed. 


UltraRunning

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2014, 10:30:42 AM »
A year after that I discovered MMM, the Bogleheads, and Vanguard

Do you invest in your TSP at all ?

turning_hapanese

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2014, 10:34:43 AM »
SSgt in the Air Force with about 11 years until that elusive 20 year mark. Currently stationed in Misawa, Japan and brand new to the MMM family. Came into the AF with about $20K in student loans/credit cards/car loan. Absorbed as much as I could about personal finance (i.e Dave Ramsey, frugal living, investing) and have since turned things around. Recently got married after 32 years of single life and currently adjusting to married life on a single income ;) Stumbled on the blog thanks to /r/personalfinance and I was drawn to it like a moth to a flame. I'm hoping to learn more about expanding into buying rental properties and other forms of passive income thanks to this blog.

CheapskateWife

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2014, 10:47:09 AM »
  I still have 8 years before I hit 20, and they way things are going in the Army I can't afford to think making it to 20 is guaranteed.

This is very wise!  We are seeing lots of peers hit two time non select and handed their walking papers...no pension, or transition time allotted.  At least on the civilian side, if you leave and don't retire right away, there is a lump sum that is available which you can pull as a kind of severance package.  I really do wish the Army would transition to a pension program like that instead of this 20 years or nothing kind of idea.

sheepstache

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2014, 10:47:31 AM »
You might like Nords' blog.
http://the-military-guide.com

EricL

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2014, 11:50:13 AM »
I'm a recently retired Army Major.  I only discovered MMM the year I retired. I was already frugal because I wanted to retire to a high cost of living area and knew my pension and lack of government/contractor job in the area wouldn't cut the mustard.  I also drove an unfashionable car that was a running joke in every unit I served with since I was a lieutenant. Upon discovering MMM I tried to extol thrift to subordinates and peers but met with the usual resistance and didn't have time for a full offensive.  I resorted to insurgent tactics and left copies of Jacob's Early Retirement Extreme and especially Nord's Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement around the HQ.  I'm pleased to say I reached one peer and another gave a considered listen.  Naturally some senior NCOs were already there. 

Travis

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2014, 12:02:42 PM »
A year after that I discovered MMM, the Bogleheads, and Vanguard

Do you invest in your TSP at all ?

Started maxing it out as soon as I could afford to.  Early on it was all sunk into bonds until I wised up.

turning_hapanese

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2014, 12:12:59 PM »
Can anyone offer any guidance on TSP vs ROTH IRA? I've been fully funding the Roth the last few years and pretty much matching that amount in my TSP. I've recently been learning more and more about how awesome the TSP really is and I'm wondering if I should reduce/eliminate the Roth contributions and focus on trying to max out the TSP. Can anyone give some feedback on this possible plan? I have both purchased in lifecycle funds.

lastlaugh

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2014, 12:28:55 PM »
Also would like advice on TSP. I have stayed away from it due to seeing friends and coworkers lose their rears in the late 90's. Everyone here seems to think its a huge opportunity tho. I am doing my research on it now to see what I can do in the next 3yrs 9 mos till I retire.

Travis

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2014, 12:37:43 PM »
Definitely look up Nords and his writings on military finance.  He can explain things better than most.  The TSP's funds have the lowest expense ratios in the industry.  They have the same basic risk as any other stock, but lower expenses means you keep more of your money.  The late 70s, the late 80s, the late  90s, the late 2000s - recessions and downturns happen more often than people realize.  It's a cycle.  The market is up 200% since the lowest point of the 2007-2009 crisis.  If you have a short window to invest that you're worried about then you can adjust your asset allocation to mitigate some of that risk.


dhlogic

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2014, 07:07:34 PM »
The TSP offers a Roth option, so you could contribute solely to the TSP instead of splitting your contributions across accounts. The TSP Roth doesn't act strictly like a Roth, its even better. Biggest differences are much higher contribution limits ($18,000 for 2015) and it doesn't count against Roth contributions for the year, so you could contribute an additional $5,500 to a separate account. I estimate I'll be able to live on far less in retirement than my current salary, so I'd rather defer paying taxes and only contribute to my TSP Roth while earning tax free pay. Everyone's different though.

I drive an early 90s car and only a couple of individuals seem to continually hassle me over it. I've been tempted to buy a car using one of the overseas military car sales programs, but then I punched myself in the face. I've also noticed that very few military members live a life that could be considered mustachian. I have had luck with several individuals though, that contributed 100% of their paycheck to the TSP while deployed and one of those who transferred 6 figures from USAA to Vanguard after explaining expense ratios to him.

The TSP funds are really no different than the equivalent "civilian" indexes they track, except for being significantly cheaper.

My strategy is to invest in index funds that cover the entire US stock market. The C and S funds in a 4:1 ratio approximates this pretty nicely at almost half the cost of the next best option, Vanguard's VTSAX.

Everyone's situation is different, but of all the benefits the military offers, I view the TSP as being the best. Especially since I plan on separating before being eligible for retirement.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2017, 03:10:05 PM by dhlogic »

UltraRunning

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2014, 10:46:36 PM »
  I resorted to insurgent tactics and left copies of Jacob's Early Retirement Extreme and especially Nord's Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement around the HQ.  I'm pleased to say I reached one peer and another gave a considered listen.  Naturally some senior NCOs were already there.
What a brilliant but simple idea.  I have both of those books at home just sitting in the bookshelf now after several rereading's of each. Bringing them to work and setting them at the shop's lunch table would be a  subtle way of spreading the word. 

UltraRunning

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2014, 10:53:46 PM »
This information is courtesy of the Nords and would just like to pass it on to all of you as well.  I did not know about this little fine print.  Hope it helps.

However you cannot make penalty-free early withdrawals with the Roth TSP as you can with the Roth IRA.  The Roth TSP has the word "Roth" in it, but it's not a Roth IRA.  A Roth TSP is a form of a tax-deferred 401(k) known as a "designated Roth account".  The TSP website info is misleading, I've made this mistake before, and I've been schooled by a world-class CFP:
http://the-military-guide.com/2012/03/19/is-the-roth-thrift-savings-plan-right-for-you/

Roth TSP contributions are not treated the same as a Roth IRA.  If you withdraw Roth TSP contributions before the tax-deferred conditions are met then there will be penalties.  Withdrawals are limited to the same rules as a Traditional TSP or 401(k).

The only way I know of to tap a Roth TSP before age 59.5 is leaving the service, doing a rollover to a Roth IRA, waiting five tax years, and then withdrawing the principle of the rollover.  Considering how confusing this can be, here's the original Michael Kitces article on five-year waiting periods and Roth IRAs:
https://www.kitces.com/blog/understanding-the-two-5-year-rules-for-roth-ira-contributions-and-conversions/

annegables

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2014, 03:30:44 PM »
Milspouse here - husband has been active duty AF for 14 years.  Take what I say with a grain of salt because I dont know how much officer vs enlisted housing allowance differs between locations.  We always live off base and we are willing to live in lower middle class neighborhoods.  Because of this, we have averaged a savings of about $800/month after utilities on our housing allowance!  And this is pocketed tax free.  We always live within 4 miles of his job, no matter how urban the area (and we have don urban!) and are willing to live in small houses in neighborhoods that we think are perfectly fine but our peers would probably turn up their noses at.  But, we have banked well over 100k just on our housing allowance savings. 

Plus, in the neighborhoods we live in, there is zero pressure to keep up with the Jones, so we have very little lifestyle inflation, further lowering our costs and increasing our savings.  On top of this, because we are living well below our means, when my husband retires, we will be able to live off just his retirement, so the massive amount of savings is a great cushion but not a necessity.  It is so nice to be happy with less than our peers.

Mazzinator

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2014, 03:43:48 PM »
This information is courtesy of the Nords and would just like to pass it on to all of you as well.  I did not know about this little fine print.  Hope it helps.

However you cannot make penalty-free early withdrawals with the Roth TSP as you can with the Roth IRA.  The Roth TSP has the word "Roth" in it, but it's not a Roth IRA.  A Roth TSP is a form of a tax-deferred 401(k) known as a "designated Roth account".  The TSP website info is misleading, I've made this mistake before, and I've been schooled by a world-class CFP:
http://the-military-guide.com/2012/03/19/is-the-roth-thrift-savings-plan-right-for-you/

Roth TSP contributions are not treated the same as a Roth IRA.  If you withdraw Roth TSP contributions before the tax-deferred conditions are met then there will be penalties.  Withdrawals are limited to the same rules as a Traditional TSP or 401(k).

The only way I know of to tap a Roth TSP before age 59.5 is leaving the service, doing a rollover to a Roth IRA, waiting five tax years, and then withdrawing the principle of the rollover.  Considering how confusing this can be, here's the original Michael Kitces article on five-year waiting periods and Roth IRAs:
https://www.kitces.com/blog/understanding-the-two-5-year-rules-for-roth-ira-contributions-and-conversions/

I "think" as long as you roll it into a "seasoned" Roth ira (seasoned = open for at least 5 years) then you can withdraw the contributions without waiting 5 more years.

(I may have my terms incorrect)

Travis

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2014, 03:48:19 PM »
Anne, the difference between officer and enlisted housing allowances is substantial.  Where I work an E6 with dependents would receive a $1700 allowance while as a major I receive $2050.  I've always lived well below that line and try to make sure nearly all of my bills are covered by my BAH.  The Army pays me as if I'm expected to live in upper class neighborhoods, but I'm quite happy finding the middle ground.  I know a lot of my coworkers enjoy living on base so close to work with most of their needs within that few mile radius, but depending on where you go it can be like the HOA from hell and it feels like a lot of money wasted.

annegables

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2014, 04:01:01 PM »
Travis,  HOA from hell, indeed!  Out of our 6 duty stations, only three have had on base housing at all (crazy, right?), and I heard horror stories from the three places with base housing.  Very, very controlling management.  If I wanted my husband's boss to get informed that something in our front yard was not up to code, I would move to Russia or Cuba.  I am not hanging up underwear in my front yard or anything, but I dont want to put my kids scooters away just so that I dont get reported or something.  Also, I am not very "militaryish" so I like physical separation between my husband's work and our lives. 

RFAAOATB

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2014, 04:31:10 PM »
I'm an E5 in the National Guard.  With varying civilian jobs we have a wide range of incomes, and unfortunately that is skewed on the lower ends.  Too many people not investing in their TSPs or struggling with under employment and low incomes.  Meanwhile I'm struggling to turn myself into a super Soldier and escape the enlisted ghetto and rise to the glorious officer nobility.

Looking at the paycharts is making me sick for not going to OCS sooner.

NICE!

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2014, 04:44:50 PM »
AF O-3 here (8ish years). Had a little too much fun the first couple of years as an LT but righted the ship after that. I only really started getting more serious in the MMM ways recently. Before that I was just doing what everyone else expects - saving 10-25% and giving about 10%.

I am not counting on having the opportunity to make it to 20. If I do continue to like it and don't get cut, that will be gravy. Otherwise, I need to prepare like I'll be cut next year.

My car doesn't look totally out of place yet ('03 Accord w/150k), but it is getting there I'm sure.

davisgang90

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2014, 05:26:03 PM »
Welcome!  Navy 06 with 24 years here.  Great place to hang out and learn.  As others have said, Nords is a member here and wrote the book on Military Finance (literally).

EricL

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2014, 06:52:37 PM »
I'm an E5 in the National Guard.  With varying civilian jobs we have a wide range of incomes, and unfortunately that is skewed on the lower ends.  Too many people not investing in their TSPs or struggling with under employment and low incomes.  Meanwhile I'm struggling to turn myself into a super Soldier and escape the enlisted ghetto and rise to the glorious officer nobility.

Looking at the paycharts is making me sick for not going to OCS sooner.

Heh.  The grass is always greener....

lastlaugh

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2014, 09:19:22 PM »
We always live off base and we are willing to live in lower middle class neighborhoods.  Because of this, we have averaged a savings of about $800/month after utilities on our housing allowance!  And this is pocketed tax free.  We always live within 4 miles of his job, no matter how urban the area (and we have don urban!) and are willing to live in small houses in neighborhoods that we think are perfectly fine but our peers would probably turn up their noses at.  But, we have banked well over 100k just on our housing allowance savings. 

Plus, in the neighborhoods we live in, there is zero pressure to keep up with the Jones, so we have very little lifestyle inflation, further lowering our costs and increasing our savings.  On top of this, because we are living well below our means, when my husband retires, we will be able to live off just his retirement, so the massive amount of savings is a great cushion but not a necessity.  It is so nice to be happy with less than our peers.

Ma'am, you and your spouse are doing exactly what me and mine are. Im E7 @ 16yrs, my wife is E6 @ 10. We bring home a good amount, but live in neighborhoods close to base and well below our means. Sometimes that ends up being in semi ghetto areas, but to me, city life sucks anyway. I'll put up with it for 3.5 more years to be FI and done. Both my peers and my subordinates look at me funny and talk behind my back about it Im sure. I drive an 08 Corolla and live in an area that my rent and utilities are covered by my wife's BAH, not to mention mine. I don't eat out and I don't participate in the squadron "Mandatory Fun" when I have to pay to do it. My wife and I ride our bikes to the grocery store and she rides hers to work daily year round. (I don't work on base and my job prevents me from biking right now or I would also). We don't have cable at all, just internet, and we are using pre-paid phones @ 30$ per mo. I can honestly say, airmen on my flight are living higher on the hog than me! I just look at them and smile, because I know when I hot my 20yrs, I'm done with the AF. I'll never work for someone else again!

Oh, and about the comment on OCS......don't be so sure things are better just because they get paid more. Im on my 6th AFSC (MOS / Rate for you other types) and I've been deployed and worked closely with officers from all 4 branches in my career. You couldn't give me and "O" rank if you tried, especially in the AF. I've met a few in the Army and Marines that I truly respected, and would do anything for their people. The Navy and AF have turned the officer ranks into a cut-throat, stab each other in the back, step on anyone below you career. Some AFSC/Rates are worse that others but its there nonetheless. The grass ain't always greener!

annegables

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2014, 09:45:21 PM »
"Ma'am"

Lastlaugh, (I never do message boards so I dont know how to quote), while your politeness is commendable, I never have and never will wear my husbands rank or any of the trappings associated with it.  If you have been in for 16 years, we are the same age, so you really dont have to call me ma'am;).  My personal life is very unaffiliated with the military and my husband works mainly with civilians and govt contractors.  Unless you are just calling me ma'am because you are from the south and thats what all good southern boys call married women.  In that case, carry on.

Anyways, good for you and your wife for living on one BAH!  My husband once worked for the base commander who drove a 15yo beater car to work every day  - something along the lines of a Geo Metro.  He was great boss and quite frugal in his outlook.  Rather commendable for an 0-8. He always commented on the young airmen who drove nicer vehicles than him in a "what a waste" kind of way.

Travis

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2014, 02:36:04 AM »
Quote
something along the lines of a Geo Metro.

I worked for a one-star who owned a late 90s Nissan in 2005.  We also wore the same Casio watch they sell at the Exchange.

Regarding OCS, the change in pay was very nice when I moved over from the enlisted side, but there is also a commensurate increase in responsibilities and work hours so be careful what you wish for!

MrFancypants

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2014, 07:33:39 AM »
Nearly 17 years in, E-7.  We'll be completely debt free with a modestly priced house when I hit 20.

I got started a little late, but after a couple of mistakes in my early years I developed decent financial habits so complete independence not long after military retirement shouldn't take too long.  The way I see it my biggest expenses, being health care and housing, will be completely covered.  Any work I do will mostly be for quality of life enhancements.

Exprezchef

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2014, 08:34:26 AM »
Retired Navy Chief (E-7) here. I was active duty for 12 years and then finished up my career in the Navy Reserves with a combined total of 21 years, retiring in 2007. I had a outstanding career with experiences that only a handful of people will ever get to do and will never be forgotten. The TSP was not available when I was active duty but I took advantage of payroll deduction investing into a few mutual funds while early into my career. As a young "I know everything" 18 year old E-2, a supervisor who dabbled in investing sat me down and showed me the possibilities that could be generated by starting early in saving and investing for retirement. I was pretty frugal throughout my service and took advantage of all the military offered. While a 20+ year military career is not for everybody, I feel it is a great opportunity for young adults to get out and see the world, grow up, learn responsibility and hopefully get an early start on financial growth. Now well into a second career that will earn me a second pension, I'll be able to retire in a few years at 50. While that may not be as young as most on this forum, I have no regrets and know I will have a safe and secure financial future for both me and my family.

MrsK

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2014, 09:09:01 AM »
TSP is a key benefit that I am always shocked more service members aren't really utilizing.  Did anyone see the last Navy Times where they looked at saving and spending habits of different sailors?  It was quite sad.  My DH will retire in 18 months and has over $400K in his TSP.  He has also maxed out another Roth.  When he was deployed we always looked at those times as an opportunity to bank the extra income and tax savings--so 5 opportunities! Extreme saving during his deployments is what got me through.  I would challenge myself to see if the kids and I could live off only a portion of my paycheck (we saved 100% of his) and watching our savings grow distracted me from my worry.

We also have always had the crappiest car, lived cheaply off base and shopped only at the commissary (I am a genius with coupons).  Anyway, we are now looking at buying our RV (our retirement home) in cash.  When people ask my husband what his job after he retires from the military is going to be, we just smile.  No one seems to believe that we will actually just retire. 


CheapskateWife

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2014, 12:52:53 PM »
TSP is a key benefit that I am always shocked more service members aren't really utilizing.  Did anyone see the last Navy Times where they looked at saving and spending habits of different sailors?  It was quite sad.  My DH will retire in 18 months and has over $400K in his TSP.  He has also maxed out another Roth.  When he was deployed we always looked at those times as an opportunity to bank the extra income and tax savings--so 5 opportunities! Extreme saving during his deployments is what got me through.  I would challenge myself to see if the kids and I could live off only a portion of my paycheck (we saved 100% of his) and watching our savings grow distracted me from my worry.

We also have always had the crappiest car, lived cheaply off base and shopped only at the commissary (I am a genius with coupons).  Anyway, we are now looking at buying our RV (our retirement home) in cash.  When people ask my husband what his job after he retires from the military is going to be, we just smile.  No one seems to believe that we will actually just retire.

This is awesome and exactly where we hope to be in 5 years!  Congrats on wise utilization of the benefits of military compensation! 

EDSMedS

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2014, 01:16:29 PM »
Former USMC Captain here.  I recently worked with the AF and will be working with the USMC again starting in two weeks!

I think military folks, maybe even more than civilians, have a sense of "spend it before I die" that is often difficult to argue.  I'm glad to see some ambassadors in the MMM community!

Cheers!

NICE!

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #37 on: December 30, 2014, 02:40:06 PM »
Former USMC Captain here.  I recently worked with the AF and will be working with the USMC again starting in two weeks!

I think military folks, maybe even more than civilians, have a sense of "spend it before I die" that is often difficult to argue.  I'm glad to see some ambassadors in the MMM community!

Cheers!

Perhaps. As an Air Force Company Grade Officer I've found that many of my peers at least maxed the IRA and lived reasonable existences. Yeah, they spend a bunch of money but they're saving. Maybe this is because they make a bunch of money, something that definitely isn't the case for an E-1 with a family.

Case in point, at my last assignment I had 3 peers that were LTs and then CPTs with me (one got out before O-3, the other two a couple years afterwards). The worst one still maxed his IRA as well as his spouse's, while constantly fighting the headwinds of her spoiled spendthrift ways. The best saved somewhere between 30-50% while supporting his sick, elderly mother (carrying a mortgage for her, paying for her meds).

I will say a lot of people own obnoxious trucks and dismiss global warming as Al Gore's conspiracy without much reflection.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2014, 01:45:16 PM by NICE! »

dz1087

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #38 on: December 31, 2014, 10:11:51 AM »
Air Force Captain from Cannon AFB here.  Been shifting to the MMM side since I was introduced in June of this year.  Made pretty good progress.  Sold both my gas guzzlers for cheaper cars.  Couldn't talk the wife into an older model so I got her '12 Corolla and I'm wheeling a '98 Sentra.  Slowly working on the food and consumer mentality on the rest of the family.  On track to max out TSP and two Roth IRAs this year.

2527

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #39 on: January 02, 2015, 08:11:39 AM »
I entered the Air Force with nothing and retired (O-5) 21 years later with about $1.5M, and it has grown since then, although I now withdraw $30K per year to spend because there is no reason not to.  Did it by living frugally and pouring money into low-cost mutual funds, then the TSP when it became available.  I never owned a house til I retired because of all the moving, and I've never had a car payment.  I now have an easy GS-12 job and life is good.  Do the same as me and you will get the same results.  Or, maybe you can do better, or maybe you want something different.  Which is OK.  Cheers.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 08:13:59 AM by 2527 »

NICE!

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #40 on: January 02, 2015, 08:28:54 AM »
I entered the Air Force with nothing and retired (O-5) 21 years later with about $1.5M, and it has grown since then, although I now withdraw $30K per year to spend because there is no reason not to.  Did it by living frugally and pouring money into low-cost mutual funds, then the TSP when it became available.  I never owned a house til I retired because of all the moving, and I've never had a car payment.  I now have an easy GS-12 job and life is good.  Do the same as me and you will get the same results.  Or, maybe you can do better, or maybe you want something different.  Which is OK.  Cheers.

Retired O5, GS15? Plus a huge stash and already-frugal ways? What in the world do you buy w the surplus?

HawkeyeJD

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #41 on: January 02, 2015, 08:43:45 AM »
I am an O3 Army Reserve JAG about 4 years in.  Civilian side attorney with the Feds.  I too share many of the sentiments in this thread regarding my constant surprise with service members seriously mismanaging their income and investments (if they have any at all). The past few years I mostly spent my time separating soldiers for misconduct but my first two years I did a decent amount of legal assistance.  I've bailed out more than a few young E1-E4 types from vulture car loans, terrible financial investment opportunities, and a range of other just crazy things I see people do.  My other favorite odd military thing is the young guys getting married or making other arrangements to move out of the barracks and boost BAH and so forth, without thinking about how their new spouse may in fact just take them for everything they are worth while on a deployment and having almost no legal recourse to deal with it aside from a lengthy usually multi-state divorce proceeding.  Well, that and the propensity for military guys to buy enormous $30k gas guzzling trucks for their daily driver despite making only $30k a year in income. 

EDSMedS

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #42 on: January 02, 2015, 09:13:41 AM »
I am an O3 Army Reserve JAG about 4 years in.  Civilian side attorney with the Feds.  I too share many of the sentiments in this thread regarding my constant surprise with service members seriously mismanaging their income and investments (if they have any at all). The past few years I mostly spent my time separating soldiers for misconduct but my first two years I did a decent amount of legal assistance.  I've bailed out more than a few young E1-E4 types from vulture car loans, terrible financial investment opportunities, and a range of other just crazy things I see people do.  My other favorite odd military thing is the young guys getting married or making other arrangements to move out of the barracks and boost BAH and so forth, without thinking about how their new spouse may in fact just take them for everything they are worth while on a deployment and having almost no legal recourse to deal with it aside from a lengthy usually multi-state divorce proceeding.  Well, that and the propensity for military guys to buy enormous $30k gas guzzling trucks for their daily driver despite making only $30k a year in income.

YUP!

Evidence of larger cultural issues of those with "steady income."  I definitely took advantage of my responsibility to educate my Marines through PERSONAL FINANCE training and INVASIVE LEADERSHIP.

DoNorth

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #43 on: January 02, 2015, 11:33:12 AM »
Medically retired as an Army major after 13 years (@75% of my high 3).  With the VA offset, my pension came out to about what an O-6 retiring at 24 years makes.  After retirement,  I wasn't sure what else to do.  I knew I didn't want to do defense contracting even though  I probably would have started in the private sector at about $140K /year and then i was offered a GS-14 position.  Most people said "that's great--you're really lucky"; but I hate DC, my 28 mile beltway commute and I don't really care for the civil service.  My wife and I looked at each other and basically said "what are we doing here??".  Thus began our journey towards FI and I'm happy to say my last day should be September 11th.  Mortgage will be paid in full; Michigan offers a veteran's property tax exemption; kids get Chapter 35 VA benefits for college....all the pieces were already there, it was just a matter of putting them together.

2527

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #44 on: January 02, 2015, 12:04:24 PM »
I'm a 12, not a 15, LOL.  But it does take some work to spend it.  Right now, over the last 3 years, I have a surplus of $100,000 to spend that hasn't been spent.  I'm taking my son skiing this spring, and we should redo our kitchen, our floors, and are carpet, but nobody seems interested in the work.  Plus we live in an expensive area, so our expenses are higher whether we like it or not.

All in all, it is a nice position to be in.  I basically like my job and the income it provides, and the fact that my children see me go to work every day, so I continue to work even though it isn't really necessary.

I entered the Air Force with nothing and retired (O-5) 21 years later with about $1.5M, and it has grown since then, although I now withdraw $30K per year to spend because there is no reason not to.  Did it by living frugally and pouring money into low-cost mutual funds, then the TSP when it became available.  I never owned a house til I retired because of all the moving, and I've never had a car payment.  I now have an easy GS-12 job and life is good.  Do the same as me and you will get the same results.  Or, maybe you can do better, or maybe you want something different.  Which is OK.  Cheers.

Retired O5, GS15? Plus a huge stash and already-frugal ways? What in the world do you buy w the surplus?

HawkeyeJD

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #45 on: January 02, 2015, 08:19:13 PM »
I am an O3 Army Reserve JAG about 4 years in.  Civilian side attorney with the Feds.  I too share many of the sentiments in this thread regarding my constant surprise with service members seriously mismanaging their income and investments (if they have any at all). The past few years I mostly spent my time separating soldiers for misconduct but my first two years I did a decent amount of legal assistance.  I've bailed out more than a few young E1-E4 types from vulture car loans, terrible financial investment opportunities, and a range of other just crazy things I see people do.  My other favorite odd military thing is the young guys getting married or making other arrangements to move out of the barracks and boost BAH and so forth, without thinking about how their new spouse may in fact just take them for everything they are worth while on a deployment and having almost no legal recourse to deal with it aside from a lengthy usually multi-state divorce proceeding.  Well, that and the propensity for military guys to buy enormous $30k gas guzzling trucks for their daily driver despite making only $30k a year in income.

YUP!

Evidence of larger cultural issues of those with "steady income."  I definitely took advantage of my responsibility to educate my Marines through PERSONAL FINANCE training and INVASIVE LEADERSHIP.


Sometimes I wish I had more direct leadership responsibilities, they put the JAGs in the back and people only come to us AFTER they are in deep and can't find another way out of whatever problem they are in, and even then most of the time we send them back to their command to work it out.   But, I guess that is life when your job makes you the equivalent of the handle that is attached to the pole that has the spear attached to it. 

But, it is good to hear that some people take their leadership roles seriously to help out their Soldiers, and wish it was more common. 

Dondarrion

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #46 on: January 03, 2015, 01:58:09 AM »
USMC 1stLt here, about to pick up Capt and then EASing in the Spring.

Been on YNAB for a few years but only found MMM a year ago.

NICE!

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #47 on: January 03, 2015, 03:19:43 AM »
Sometimes I wish I had more direct leadership responsibilities, they put the JAGs in the back and people only come to us AFTER they are in deep and can't find another way out of whatever problem they are in, and even then most of the time we send them back to their command to work it out.   But, I guess that is life when your job makes you the equivalent of the handle that is attached to the pole that has the spear attached to it. 

But, it is good to hear that some people take their leadership roles seriously to help out their Soldiers, and wish it was more common.

I feel ya but it isnt easy as an O to give this advice to people with much lower salaries. You need solid enlisted leaders to pull it off. Trust me I've tried - my E-6s have told me it is hard for people to see through the fancy degrees and shoulderboards. Furthermore I went to a service academy, so thats another layer of both deserved and undeserved perceptions to overcome. Basically I've learned that some will see a silver spoon, no matter what.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 08:37:25 AM by NICE! »

davisgang90

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #48 on: January 03, 2015, 03:57:23 AM »
Sometimes I wish I had more direct leadership responsibilities, they put the JAGs in the back and people only come to us AFTER they are in deep and can't find another way out of whatever problem they are in, and even then most of the time we send them back to their command to work it out.   But, I guess that is life when your job makes you the equivalent of the handle that is attached to the pole that has the spear attached to it. 

But, it is good to hear that some people take their leadership roles seriously to help out their Soldiers, and wish it was more common.

I feel ya but it isnt easy as an O to givre this advice to people paid much less. You need solid enlisted leaders to pull it off. Trust me Ive tried - my e-6s have told me it is hard for people to see through the fancy degrees and shoulderboards. Furthermore i went to a service academy, so thats another layer of both deserved ans undeserved perceptions to overcome. Basically ive learned that some will see a silver spoon, no matter what.
When I was in command I had a CMC (Command Master Chief) E-9 for my Enlisted Adviser.  He was the poster boy for thrifty living and savings.  He sat each new Sailor down and talked to them about savings and TSP and used his situation as an example: his home is paid off, he has maxed TSP the entire time it was available and invested heavily in index funds before that.  He ended up retiring after 30 years and hasn't worked since.  His example had a greater impact than mine given his time working his way up the enlisted ranks.  He was a treasure!

regulationstache

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Re: Any other Military men or women in the mmm comunity.
« Reply #49 on: January 03, 2015, 04:45:47 AM »
Hello all,

Checking in for the first time here. I've been lurking for a while! I'm AD Navy and so is my spouse. We have 8 years and 6 years, respectively, of AD service time. Currently, we (mostly me, but he is a team player) are focused on fine-tuning a plan that allows us to FI as soon as we hit our 20. Nice to read everyone else's stories!