Author Topic: Annual Review- Got Screwed  (Read 8826 times)

goalphish2002

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Annual Review- Got Screwed
« on: December 12, 2017, 06:58:48 AM »
The company is having a record year, and I got a great review.  I was told I would get a 4% raise (the lowest I can recall getting); I asked to work from home one day every other week and eventually one day a week.  This was granted on a conditional basis.  Despite this, I received a 3% raise.  This is the lowest I have ever received.  I feel like I must confront management about this.  I am pretty pissed off...

simonsez

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2017, 07:01:55 AM »
Haha, not what I expected with the title.  I'd love to be pissed about a 3% raise.

If this is below the norm for your job, it sounds like you might want to keep a pulse on other jobs in your sector assuming they would be similar.  It is always nice to have some leverage in your back pocket.  Otherwise why would management care about you venting - it's not like you are going to leave without somewhere to go unless...

goalphish2002

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2017, 07:13:03 AM »
I've left before, and I can leave again; I feel like they need to know this.  The lowest I had ever gotten was 4.5%- I had gotten upwards of 9% before.  I know I can leave again for more money, but I'd rather not job hop.  However, I am coming to realize this is the ONLY way.  When I do substantially more work and have more responsibility than my peers, and they get the same or better than 3%, I have a problem with this.   

My point with telling my boss:  He knows I left before, and I can leave again (they need to be reminded I have options).  It will cost him more to replace me, and he has admitted this fact, in passing. 

Main point: I will feel better getting this off my chest. 

Note: I came back because it was a mutual decision.  The company wanted to bring me back, and I do like it here.  But business is business...  I don't do this shit for free.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 08:09:35 AM by goalphish2002 »

tooqk4u22

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2017, 08:04:08 AM »
Entitlement much!

How do you know everyone else go 3%...maybe they got 0-2%. 

Maybe the raises before were somewhat due to you being on the low end of the payscale and they were bringing you along up to market or maybe your skill set developed at a faster pace.  Now you may be at higher end of scale and with less development....once mature in your position raises tend to be inflationary.  You need to assess what your comp is relative to the market before you storm in....

Conversation may not go well....but as you said you can leave. 

GnomeErcy

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2017, 08:10:00 AM »
What I've found to be the case:

First year or two: 8-10% raises to keep you around. Then they start giving you stock.
Year 3+: inflation +1% or so.

If you want to raise your salary, job hopping is a great way to do it. You may be in limbo on some other benefits like 401(k)/vesting/etc but if salary is what you're after, I'd recommend job hopping. I've raised my salary by about 45% from 2016 to today doing that.

My next move will be another 10-15% increase, and at that point I'll be really happy with my salary - and plan to stick around at that company until my FIRE date, if possible.

goalphish2002

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2017, 08:12:14 AM »
Because I was told by my boss what he was giving them in conversations throughout the year...  I also had coworkers say what they received in passing.

goalphish2002

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2017, 08:14:29 AM »
What I've found to be the case:

First year or two: 8-10% raises to keep you around. Then they start giving you stock.
Year 3+: inflation +1% or so.

If you want to raise your salary, job hopping is a great way to do it. You may be in limbo on some other benefits like 401(k)/vesting/etc but if salary is what you're after, I'd recommend job hopping. I've raised my salary by about 45% from 2016 to today doing that.

My next move will be another 10-15% increase, and at that point I'll be really happy with my salary - and plan to stick around at that company until my FIRE date, if possible.

This is what I have found.  I find this to be sad though.  I've seen people hop to other companies for say 10-15%.  We hire someone new at the salary our experienced person left for?  The new person isn't up to speed for 6-12 months and isn't loyal. 

Zola.

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2017, 08:16:46 AM »
I got my biggest pay raise when I was offered another job..

Last Night

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2017, 08:18:43 AM »
My point with telling my boss:  He knows I left before, and I can leave again (they need to be reminded I have options).  It will cost him more to replace me, and he has admitted this fact, in passing. 


I am sure they are aware you can leave (since you've done that to them in the past and every competent employer understands this) and frankly they are indifferent if you do or don't, hence why giving you an average raise. 

Is 1%-2% really that significant at the end of the day? It almost seems like this is more about ego than anything else.

Also, job hopping for 10%-15% seems counterintuitive - net/net it's probably wash.  I personally made all my job hopping at 35%+, anything less than let's say 25% doesn't make financial sense to me.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 08:20:18 AM by Last Night »

GuitarStv

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2017, 08:25:07 AM »
The main issue I see is that you were told one number and given another.  Personally, I'd ask my boss about it in a non-demanding/whiney way.

"Hey boss, I understood from our conversations that my raise was going to be 4% this year and was a little surprised at what I ended up with.  What happened?"

Then you'll have better information to determine if leaving the company is really worth it, or if there was some legitimate reason that things worked out the way that they did.  Your boss will know that you didn't forget what he said, but at the same time you're not overtly putting the screws to him so if you do stay you can maintain a good relationship with him.

goalphish2002

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2017, 08:25:39 AM »
My point with telling my boss:  He knows I left before, and I can leave again (they need to be reminded I have options).  It will cost him more to replace me, and he has admitted this fact, in passing. 


I am sure they are aware you can leave (since you've done that to them in the past and every competent employer understands this) and frankly they are indifferent if you do or don't, hence why giving you an average raise. 

Is 1%-2% really that significant at the end of the day? It almost seems like this is more about ego than anything else.

Also, job hopping for 10%-15% seems counterintuitive - net/net it's probably wash.  I personally made all my job hopping at 35%+, anything less than let's say 25% doesn't make financial sense to me.

1) Yes, it is partly due to my ego.  I freely admit this.  On the other end, 1-2% shouldn't break a company that has doubled it's revenue in the last few years and has had it's best quarter ever.  We also still work with the same staff- our administration is a skeleton crew right now.

2) That 1-2% matters when every evaluation going forward is going off my current pay.  In theory, it could be significant down the road. 

goalphish2002

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2017, 08:34:27 AM »
The main issue I see is that you were told one number and given another.  Personally, I'd ask my boss about it in a non-demanding/whiney way.

"Hey boss, I understood from our conversations that my raise was going to be 4% this year and was a little surprised at what I ended up with.  What happened?"

Then you'll have better information to determine if leaving the company is really worth it, or if there was some legitimate reason that things worked out the way that they did.  Your boss will know that you didn't forget what he said, but at the same time you're not overtly putting the screws to him so if you do stay you can maintain a good relationship with him.

I asked him yesterday.  He explained it when I was working on a project.  He basically said that he changed it because he didn't want to go to bat over it with the VP.  When I came back, I was making more than I left.  Apparently, the VP has heartburn over this.  I didn't have time to respond before he walked away; I needed to collect my thoughts.  I really wasn't prepared for that answer.  I just want to clear the air.  I am not demanding the 1% back.  But, I want to know how long I will be punished for leaving and them bringing me back at a higher wage.  To be honest, I could still get a higher salary elsewhere in Atlanta.  I was grossly underpaid before.  I have a master's degree now and will have the PMP soon.  I honestly feel like we are a family here.  The problem with that is they tend to pay the outliers that make demands over the people who keep their head down and really produce.  The squeaky wheel gets the grease...

partgypsy

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2017, 08:38:49 AM »
So you know what your coworkers are getting for raises. Do you know what their salary is as well, and how it compares to other people with comparable experience, years etc?  It sounds like the VP feels you are an outlier compensation-wise in the company, hence having "heartburn".

GuitarStv

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2017, 08:43:58 AM »
The main issue I see is that you were told one number and given another.  Personally, I'd ask my boss about it in a non-demanding/whiney way.

"Hey boss, I understood from our conversations that my raise was going to be 4% this year and was a little surprised at what I ended up with.  What happened?"

Then you'll have better information to determine if leaving the company is really worth it, or if there was some legitimate reason that things worked out the way that they did.  Your boss will know that you didn't forget what he said, but at the same time you're not overtly putting the screws to him so if you do stay you can maintain a good relationship with him.

I asked him yesterday.  He explained it when I was working on a project.  He basically said that he changed it because he didn't want to go to bat over it with the VP.  When I came back, I was making more than I left.  Apparently, the VP has heartburn over this.  I didn't have time to respond before he walked away; I needed to collect my thoughts.  I really wasn't prepared for that answer.  I just want to clear the air.  I am not demanding the 1% back.  But, I want to know how long I will be punished for leaving and them bringing me back at a higher wage.  To be honest, I could still get a higher salary elsewhere in Atlanta.  I was grossly underpaid before.  I have a master's degree now and will have the PMP soon.  I honestly feel like we are a family here.  The problem with that is they tend to pay the outliers that make demands over the people who keep their head down and really produce.  The squeaky wheel gets the grease...

Oh.

In that case, it's pretty straightforward.  Leave.  Don't come back.  He just said he's not willing to work hard for you and the VP doesn't value you . . . which would forever more make me question why I was willing to work hard for him or the VP.  Politely explain why you are leaving in your exit interview.

goalphish2002

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2017, 08:46:18 AM »
So you know what your coworkers are getting for raises. Do you know what their salary is as well, and how it compares to other people with comparable experience, years etc?  It sounds like the VP feels you are an outlier compensation-wise in the company, hence having "heartburn".

This is the way it comes across.  I started in 2008 and left for 1.5 years during this time.  He wouldn't hesitate to pay someone he doesn't know more than me.  But, since he knows me, he has an issue with this.  Like, they can't understand my experience plus continuing education has put me in a position to negotiate. The thing is I am constantly put in upper management positions.  I train senior managers in cost engineering.  I help in corporate training.  I am sent to meet with clients- program managers with EPA, etc...  I can't tell you how many times I've been told to get on a plane on Friday afternoon to mitigate a disaster.  I did all that making entry level pay.  You can't expect a person to do that for $40K forever...  Full disclosure, I make 75K now; hardly above the industry average for an analyst- that is still on the low end.  I don't think that is overpaid for 10 years experience and a master's degree.  I am constantly trusted to work outside of my position.  It isn't like I punch a clock and do nothing all day. 
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 08:54:37 AM by goalphish2002 »

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2017, 08:57:52 AM »
Companies pay as little as you will accept to stick around, its all part of the game.

You have to weigh up what another move will bring. You came back to the place. You clearly like working there.

Sometimes there is more to a job than just $$$$. You could move to another job for more money and absolutely dread going in every day / find it hard to enjoy a working environment like you have now.

goalphish2002

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2017, 09:09:00 AM »
Companies pay as little as you will accept to stick around, its all part of the game.

You have to weigh up what another move will bring. You came back to the place. You clearly like working there.

Sometimes there is more to a job than just $$$$. You could move to another job for more money and absolutely dread going in every day / find it hard to enjoy a working environment like you have now.

Agreed.  I am going to pay for the PMP, out of my pocket, and leverage it next year.  I will have to evaluate it all then.  And, I know it is common here to ask an employer to reimburse certifications/designations...  However, I 100% believe I will hear the following: We paid for your PMP so your raise is a little lower, etc...  Again...

honeybbq

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2017, 09:18:24 AM »
What did they say on your review?
Are you under performing possibly?

goalphish2002

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2017, 09:28:08 AM »
What did they say on your review?
Are you under performing possibly?

I received an excellent review.  I was told I will be supervising my peers going forward and taking over more of my boss's duties, as he helps out with business development.

So, we trust you to do even more.  Here's 4 percent.  Wait, let's wait until you hear it from HR, we mean 3% because that puts you at almost 75K, which is more than we like...  That is how it comes across to me.

Zola.

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2017, 09:32:05 AM »
Sounds like when you take on more the natural bump up would be next year. I would sit tight and work hard, see what next year brings.

If its another disappointment, at least you have a year form today to prepare your next move..... if it comes to that.

DumpTruck

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2017, 09:39:01 AM »
and i'm all over here trying to get laid off so i can collect unemployment and live in a van

accolay

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2017, 11:26:18 AM »
OP- so how does this all fit into your master plan? Assuming you're on here to eventually retire early.... then how far are you out? How willing are you to leave for a higher paying job?

TexasRunner

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2017, 11:42:47 AM »
TBH, the ONLY way to get 10%-15% or more is job hopping.  Its sad but true.

My average raise from one company to another = 14%
My average raise (annually) within one company = 2.6%

It really doesn't compare....

acroy

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2017, 11:50:48 AM »
LEAVE

He basically said that he changed it because he didn't want to go to bat over it with the VP. 
Stellar manager there, sticking up for his people. At least he's being honest; this may be a fight he could not win. One more reason to say 'see-ya!'

goalphish2002

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2017, 12:09:27 PM »
75k/yr in Atlanta is MEGA ASS, I made that coming out of college with a crappy degree from a crappy school

Time for a job switch or a career switch for that matter

You should demand a refund from the institution you received your masters education. How dare they provide you with such a laughable job placement

Don't hold back!  Tell me how you really feel!  Haha.

SC93

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2017, 12:14:50 PM »
Here is the type of guy I am, which might be why I own my own business and can't work for anyone else..... the first thing that I would have done is walked in to the VP's office and went to bat for myself. And if he would have given me the runaround, knowing me, I would have went to the highest guy at the top within minutes.

And then if they didn't give me what I was expecting, I would be slouching every day until I went to my new job. All I'd be doing is collecting a paycheck until the day I left, nothing more. You sound like the type of person I am.... work your ass off. But the way I see it, they get what they pay for. Yes, I did do this at a job before.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 05:40:54 PM by SC93 »

jpompo

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2017, 12:24:21 PM »
Is there a chance you've reached to top of the income band for your position? If you're used to getting 9% type raises maybe you've gotten as high as they can push you. It's more often that we run into this with analyst lifers than high performers, since we promote the latter, but it could happen.

goalphish2002

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2017, 12:49:29 PM »
Here is the type of guy I am, which might be why I own my own business and can't work for anyone else..... the first thing that I would have done is walked in to the VP's office and went to bat for myself. And if he would have given me the runaround, knowing me, I would have went to the highest guy at the top within minutes.

And then if they didn't give me what I was expecting, I would be slouching every day until I went to my new job. All I'd be doing is collecting a paycheck until the day I left, nothing more. You sound like the type of person I am.... work your ass off. But the way I see it, if they get what they pay for. Yes, I did do this at a job before.

I think I need to eventually move into a consulting role and work for myself.  I think this is the only way I will feel valued.

goalphish2002

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2017, 12:51:49 PM »
Is there a chance you've reached to top of the income band for your position? If you're used to getting 9% type raises maybe you've gotten as high as they can push you. It's more often that we run into this with analyst lifers than high performers, since we promote the latter, but it could happen.

I don't think I am.  As one person gently pointed out (haha), 75K is not really that high for Atlanta.  It is about the industry average for a cost engineer/project controls analyst.  So, I'm nowhere near topped out... 
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 01:19:01 PM by goalphish2002 »

honeybbq

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2017, 03:38:12 PM »
If you are getting more responsibility, it makes sense to speak with your supervisor and express your concerns that your new job duties and responsibilities don't seem in line with your pay raise.

Perhaps there was just a miscommunication. I wouldn't leave yet.

soccerluvof4

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2017, 04:05:18 PM »
Sounds to me you should leave regardless if you can make more money and not worry about job hop. After what happened you probably wont be happy going forward regardless.

SC93

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2017, 05:42:00 PM »
^^^ True dat^^^

goalphish2002

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2017, 08:15:42 AM »
OP- so how does this all fit into your master plan? Assuming you're on here to eventually retire early.... then how far are you out? How willing are you to leave for a higher paying job?

I am here because I want to be financially independent, and I've found the site useful.  I don't have any concrete plans yet.  Yes, I should have that figured out, but it seems a difficult task.  I don't know why?  I have an MSA- I am good with numbers.  I just find the variables to be difficult to forecast in my personal life.  Although I have an accounting background, I am a cost engineer.  I find it difficult to apply the same logic to my life.  Yes, you have the right to berate me, if you wish.

goalphish2002

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2017, 08:17:10 AM »
OP- so how does this all fit into your master plan? Assuming you're on here to eventually retire early.... then how far are you out? How willing are you to leave for a higher paying job?

I am here because I want to be financially independent, and I've found the site useful.  I don't have any concrete plans yet.  Yes, I should have that figured out, but it seems a difficult task.  I don't know why?  I have an MSA- I am good with numbers.  I just find the variables to be difficult to forecast in my personal life.  Although I have an accounting background, I am a cost engineer.  I find it difficult to apply the same logic to my life.  Yes, you have the right to berate me, if you wish.

To note: I want to be financially independent but still work.  I would like to possibly work for myself one day. 

MrFrugalChicago

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2017, 09:44:20 AM »
What is your position, and current pay?

As a business owner.. what tends to happen is this:

Sometimes someone comes in below market pay for a position. Say I have a 120k max budget for a role. If someone comes in at 60k, he is getting some NICE raises for a few years. If after he was at 115k, and the max budget for the position is still 120k (let's assume no inflation, in reality the max pay raises over time).. his raise is going to be smaller.

At the end of the day, YOU control your pay. Think you are worth more? Work elsewhere. Start your own business. I topped out in my w2 career at around 150k. Wasn't going to get much more, so I quit and started my own company. Now I have no limit on how much (or how little) I can pay myself.

goalphish2002

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2017, 10:01:54 AM »
What is your position, and current pay?

As a business owner.. what tends to happen is this:

Sometimes someone comes in below market pay for a position. Say I have a 120k max budget for a role. If someone comes in at 60k, he is getting some NICE raises for a few years. If after he was at 115k, and the max budget for the position is still 120k (let's assume no inflation, in reality the max pay raises over time).. his raise is going to be smaller.

At the end of the day, YOU control your pay. Think you are worth more? Work elsewhere. Start your own business. I topped out in my w2 career at around 150k. Wasn't going to get much more, so I quit and started my own company. Now I have no limit on how much (or how little) I can pay myself.

Sr. Project Controls Analyst/Cost Engineer- I make around 75K now with the 3% raise that I just received. 

goalphish2002

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2017, 11:17:37 AM »
Companies pay as little as you will accept to stick around, its all part of the game.

You have to weigh up what another move will bring. You came back to the place. You clearly like working there.

Sometimes there is more to a job than just $$$$. You could move to another job for more money and absolutely dread going in every day / find it hard to enjoy a working environment like you have now.

Thanks Matt.  I didn't know this.  Do you have any material that you would recommend?  I have the required educational hours.  But, I am not against taking another full course, if it will prepare me better to pass on the first try. 

Agreed.  I am going to pay for the PMP, out of my pocket, and leverage it next year.  I will have to evaluate it all then.  And, I know it is common here to ask an employer to reimburse certifications/designations...  However, I 100% believe I will hear the following: We paid for your PMP so your raise is a little lower, etc...  Again...


OP FYI, the PMP test and PMBOK will be changing March 26, 2018.  Schedule your exam before then to ensure you have studied the correct material.

RedmondStash

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2017, 11:55:28 AM »
There's entitlement going on here, but it isn't yours, OP. It's your manager's and VP's. They believe they are entitled to reduce the raise they told you you were getting, set limits on what you should earn based on what you earned when you worked there last, and not go to bat for you -- and still have you keep working there as a high contributor.

Seriously, why would you stay?

I get that you liked working there, but will you still enjoy it when you're grinding your teeth with resentment that your boss doesn't have your back or value you the way you feel you should be valued? This isn't just about money; it's about how you're treated.

I'd say you have a couple of choices: Either smile and quietly go find another job while continuing to work there, or tell your manager that if you don't get the raise you were told you would, you're going to start looking. You could also combine those options by getting another job offer and taking it to your manager, saying that they can either match the new offer or watch you walk away. That will probably cost them a lot more than the extra 1% you feel they stiffed you on.

If you really want to work things out there, you could also offer to stay if they guarantee you that extra 1% raise in 6 months, in writing. But I doubt that would work, because it doesn't sound like they take you seriously.

I recently left a job where I'd previously been happy because of one new person's unresolved bad behavior. It's hard to do, leaving a job you have some positive feelings for. But I have absolutely no regrets, because jobs and companies change, and when they change for the worse, they typically don't magically turn around and then get better. For me, there is no more important relationship than the one with your manager. If that isn't solid, if you don't feel respected, I wouldn't expect that to improve.

Thank goodness for FU money.

Good luck.

goalphish2002

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2017, 12:01:27 PM »
Companies pay as little as you will accept to stick around, its all part of the game.

You have to weigh up what another move will bring. You came back to the place. You clearly like working there.

Sometimes there is more to a job than just $$$$. You could move to another job for more money and absolutely dread going in every day / find it hard to enjoy a working environment like you have now.

Thanks Matt.  I didn't know this.  Do you have any material that you would recommend?  I have the required educational hours.  But, I am not against taking another full course, if it will prepare me better to pass on the first try. 

Agreed.  I am going to pay for the PMP, out of my pocket, and leverage it next year.  I will have to evaluate it all then.  And, I know it is common here to ask an employer to reimburse certifications/designations...  However, I 100% believe I will hear the following: We paid for your PMP so your raise is a little lower, etc...  Again...


OP FYI, the PMP test and PMBOK will be changing March 26, 2018.  Schedule your exam before then to ensure you have studied the correct material.

If you've taken a course already then you probably get the gist of it, but Rita Mulcahy books are the gold standard.  So, from there I would start taking practice exams until you start getting passing them on a regular basis(75%-85%).  I'll PM you some links to free ones.

Awesome, thanks for the help.

mm1970

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2017, 12:37:36 PM »
So you know what your coworkers are getting for raises. Do you know what their salary is as well, and how it compares to other people with comparable experience, years etc?  It sounds like the VP feels you are an outlier compensation-wise in the company, hence having "heartburn".

This is the way it comes across.  I started in 2008 and left for 1.5 years during this time.  He wouldn't hesitate to pay someone he doesn't know more than me.  But, since he knows me, he has an issue with this.  Like, they can't understand my experience plus continuing education has put me in a position to negotiate. The thing is I am constantly put in upper management positions.  I train senior managers in cost engineering.  I help in corporate training.  I am sent to meet with clients- program managers with EPA, etc...  I can't tell you how many times I've been told to get on a plane on Friday afternoon to mitigate a disaster.  I did all that making entry level pay.  You can't expect a person to do that for $40K forever...  Full disclosure, I make 75K now; hardly above the industry average for an analyst- that is still on the low end.  I don't think that is overpaid for 10 years experience and a master's degree.  I am constantly trusted to work outside of my position.  It isn't like I punch a clock and do nothing all day.
It's time to leave.

Some companies want you to work for as little as possible.  As far as paying "outsiders" more than "insiders"?  Happens all the time. It's normal.  Part of it is that they value the outside experience, and it's hard to know what someone from outside is capable of doing.  It's like shopping "new!"  Part of it is that people aren't going to change jobs for less money.

Changing jobs gets you more money.  I've been in the same company for 9 years and my pay is shit.  Company has happily hired new people at far more than I'm making.  Some of it is a mental note of what the execs think I'm worth, because they've known me so long.  Since I was employee number 20-something, and am still here 4 layoffs later, I'm obviously worth keeping.  (I have other reasons for staying, mainly locale and flexibility).

They aren't going to go to bat for you, so just find a new job.  An extra 20% goes a long way...

bognish

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2017, 01:00:34 PM »
I would suggest holding tight until you have received the certification you are working on. It will be hard to study or focus on the certification if you are also interviewing or learning a new job. Also as an employer I would not pay more for a certificate that is not complete, and would hesitate to give a bump shortly after hiring.

Complete the certificate. Ask your current employer for a bump for the certificate. Look for a new job with higher pay regardless of whether they give you a bump because what everyone above says: your boss & VP don't value your work.

L8_apex

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2017, 01:01:48 PM »
How much money do you make for the company?  Just because they're growing sales doesn't mean that everybody is suddenly worth more.

Start looking for a new job (discreetly).  I'd suggest not burning your bridges over 1% at the current job.  Just get yourself another offer (or multiples), then you have the luxury of making a real decision...


Rosy

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2017, 01:36:21 PM »
1. Stay until you got your certificate.
2. A manager that doesn't go to bat for you - is a reason to leave.
3. A VP who takes it personally that you have left before and is resistant to a 1% increase is a problem and a reason to leave.

If $75K is a low average in Atlanta, then appreciate that you are working for a company that, if nothing else, is providing excellent high profile experience for you - which will help tremendously when you leave for a better paying company.
Eventually, you will be faced with finding the right company and staying on. Top dollar is not always the best choice, but for the first fifteen years of your career it is important.
Taking the leap to self employment is a rough road to travel...

sisto

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Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2017, 03:50:48 PM »
Companies pay as little as you will accept to stick around, its all part of the game.

You have to weigh up what another move will bring. You came back to the place. You clearly like working there.

Sometimes there is more to a job than just $$$$. You could move to another job for more money and absolutely dread going in every day / find it hard to enjoy a working environment like you have now.

Thanks Matt.  I didn't know this.  Do you have any material that you would recommend?  I have the required educational hours.  But, I am not against taking another full course, if it will prepare me better to pass on the first try. 

Agreed.  I am going to pay for the PMP, out of my pocket, and leverage it next year.  I will have to evaluate it all then.  And, I know it is common here to ask an employer to reimburse certifications/designations...  However, I 100% believe I will hear the following: We paid for your PMP so your raise is a little lower, etc...  Again...


OP FYI, the PMP test and PMBOK will be changing March 26, 2018.  Schedule your exam before then to ensure you have studied the correct material.

If you've taken a course already then you probably get the gist of it, but Rita Mulcahy books are the gold standard.  So, from there I would start taking practice exams until you start getting passing them on a regular basis(75%-85%).  I'll PM you some links to free ones.

Would you mind PMing me the links too?

goalphish2002

  • Bristles
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  • Posts: 290
Re: Annual Review- Got Screwed
« Reply #44 on: December 14, 2017, 01:17:04 PM »
Companies pay as little as you will accept to stick around, its all part of the game.

You have to weigh up what another move will bring. You came back to the place. You clearly like working there.

Sometimes there is more to a job than just $$$$. You could move to another job for more money and absolutely dread going in every day / find it hard to enjoy a working environment like you have now.

Thanks Matt.  I didn't know this.  Do you have any material that you would recommend?  I have the required educational hours.  But, I am not against taking another full course, if it will prepare me better to pass on the first try. 

Agreed.  I am going to pay for the PMP, out of my pocket, and leverage it next year.  I will have to evaluate it all then.  And, I know it is common here to ask an employer to reimburse certifications/designations...  However, I 100% believe I will hear the following: We paid for your PMP so your raise is a little lower, etc...  Again...


OP FYI, the PMP test and PMBOK will be changing March 26, 2018.  Schedule your exam before then to ensure you have studied the correct material.

If you've taken a course already then you probably get the gist of it, but Rita Mulcahy books are the gold standard.  So, from there I would start taking practice exams until you start getting passing them on a regular basis(75%-85%).  I'll PM you some links to free ones.

These are great.  Thanks, Matt!  I really appreciate it.