putting a value on covered parking (in northern climates)

[nereo]

Something I've been thinking about lately as winter draws near - how can I evaluate the economic value of having covered parking (vs parking in the open air).
Ignoring that ice and snow can be frustrating to scrape off, I know (or at least believe) that ice, snow, salt and sun eventually takes its toll on a car, especially when you keep that car for 12+ years like I tend to do.

I've also heard lots of people say that keeping a car inside an insulated garage (say, 50ºF/10ºC) is much better for it than having to start it in the winter when it's -5ºF/-20ºC outside.  Not sure if that's true or not but if it is perhaps investing in covered parking isn't such a bad thing.

So - anyone have an objective way of evaluating the benefit of covered parking?  Or is it all rubbish and cars kept outside in sub-zero temperatures will do no worse?

[ThriftyD]

I'd be interested in seeing what others have to say on this as well.  Winter is approaching here in Wisconsin and my apartment complex offers underground, climate controlled parking for $50 USD/month with access to a wash bay.  I currently park out on the surface lot right now, which has no extra charge but I don't have access to that underground wash area. 

I'm happy keeping the $50/month but at the same time I hate scraping off windows, shoveling my car out, warming it up, etc.  Also, the wash bay is enticing in that I can rinse off the salt from the body and undercarriage to prevent rust, which could ceratainly prolong the life of the car.

[NV Teacher]

I spent the first half of my life living in the snowy mountains of Utah.  For me parking in a garage is an essential.  Now I live in the blasting furnace of the south western desert.  Again parking in a garage is an essential. 

[lizzzi]

I'm also interested in other replies. I've lived in winter climates my whole life--sometimes with garaging and sometimes not.  In terms of scraping and brushing off the snow and ice--it doesn't bother me, but of course, I'd rather get out of it if possible. It's just an "eyeball" thing, and I have no statistics, but I think my cars have looked better for longer when they are garaged. I buy new and then drive the car forever, so can attest to what they look like over, let's say, 16 years.

[ThriftyD]

What I have realized from traveling around the country is that cars here in the Midwest (and probably the northeast) "age" a lot quicker and seem a lot older than cars out west or in the south. 

In Milwaukee, it's not uncommon to see 10-year old cars with noticable rust damage from all the salt on the roads in winter.  Conversely, I was in Seattle last fall and was astounded by all the 20+ year-old cars still on the road looking immaculate.  It wasn't just fancy collector cars either.  There were late 80s Honda Civics, Toyota Pickups, Volkswagon "hippie" buses, El Caminos, Volvos, etc all over the place that looked clean and well-maintained.  Anytime I see cars that old in Wisconsin, they're usually complete rust buckets.   

[KMMK]

Interesting question. I don't know exactly what parking uncovered costs re: time, and wear and tear on the car, but when we were house hunting last year we found out that a garage would cost $100,000, so we went without it.

The situation - in our city last year, a house of a quality and size acceptable to us, with a garage,  was about $300,000. A condo with no garage, of equivalent quality, and acceptable size was $200,000, so we went with the condo. Only DH really drives in the winter and only has to work about 14 days out of 35 so that helps with the scraping and whatnot.

[RetiredAt63]

The "general wisdom" here (i.e. I don't know how valid it is) is that an unheated garage is best.  Your car is sheltered (from sun and hail in summer, snow and ice in winter) but you don't have the heat at the same time as the salt - i.e. winter.  Really, around here a garage under a building will be at least a little bit heated, but a garage attached to a house generally is not, and a detached garage almost certainly is not (unless it is doubling as a workshop).  When I am out I like parking under shelter, but open to the air is fine.  Twenty minutes standing in freezing rain scraping ice off my car is not good for the car or for me.

[citycat]

Since I don't own a car, I rent my garage parking space to my neighbor for $100 a month.  If I had a car, I would prefer to keep my spot and forgo the $1200 a year, rather than deal with the issues you mentioned.

[RetiredAt63]

Our first house had no garage.  Living in a Montreal winter persuaded us that a garage was a priority for the second house.  A car (even our old cars) is enough of an investment that it should be looked after properly.  It amazes me when I see people with garages full of stuff that in total is much less valuable (and useful) than their car, but because of the stuff the car lives outside.

I knew of people living closer to the center of the city that used their car for work, and rented out their garage space for day parking - their car was gone, they didn't need the garage during the day.  They had the best of both worlds.

Since I don't own a car, I rent my garage parking space to my neighbor for $100 a month.  If I had a car, I would prefer to keep my spot and forgo the $1200 a year, rather than deal with the issues you mentioned.

[Thegoblinchief]

Covered yes, climate controlled no. Unless you're washing with an undercarriage flush every time you drive and go back to the garage, the extra thaw cycles just lets the salt work faster.

[RetiredAt63]

Exactly.  That's why I wrote this (The "general wisdom" here is that an unheated garage is best) above.  Just something to keep the snow and freezing rain off, and ideally keep the wind chill down.  I find that in the summer, no matter how hot the garage gets, the car is still not as hot as if it had sat out in the sun, and the paint doesn't fade as fast.  So a garage or good carport is a win/win.  I have to say, though, for security reasons, I prefer a garage - no-one can see if my car (and therefore me) is there or not.

Covered yes, climate controlled no. Unless you're washing with an undercarriage flush every time you drive and go back to the garage, the extra thaw cycles just lets the salt work faster.

[Bob W]

The third way is a car cover and an oil dipstick heater.  The cover is portable, so could be used at work or anytime car is parked for a long time.

[Fodder]

I'm in Ottawa, and it's unusual for a single house in this area not to have a garage.

My very anti-mustachian garage is not attached to my house, and is unheated.  We are considering getting a block heater for our 2005 Matrix this year and plugging it in on nights when it's especially cold (like, say -18C or colder) because on those really cold morning last year, the car reeeeeeaaaaalllllly did not seem happy about starting, and given the mileage (250 000 km), we'd like it to keep on truckin' for us.

Our car has always been in a garage in the winter (we bought used, but from my DH's parents, so I know the history of the vehicle), and despite it being 10 years old, the outer appearance is immaculate.  No rust whatsoever (and always an unheated garage).

[nereo]

Exactly.  That's why I wrote this (The "general wisdom" here is that an unheated garage is best) above.  Just something to keep the snow and freezing rain off, and ideally keep the wind chill down.  I find that in the summer, no matter how hot the garage gets, the car is still not as hot as if it had sat out in the sun, and the paint doesn't fade as fast.  So a garage or good carport is a win/win.  I have to say, though, for security reasons, I prefer a garage - no-one can see if my car (and therefore me) is there or not.

Covered yes, climate controlled no. Unless you're washing with an undercarriage flush every time you drive and go back to the garage, the extra thaw cycles just lets the salt work faster.

This is something I've heard that I've never quite understood.  I'm not saying that you are wrong, but I was under the impression that starting an engine when it was very cold (e.g. below 10ºF+) was just hard on the engine.  The oil doesn't flow as easily, the belts squeel, and it takes a lot more out of hte battery to get the car started.  But i also hear people saying that heating my car lets the salt work faster.  Should I not worry about cold-starting my car and only be concerned about the salt?

The third way is a car cover and an oil dipstick heater.  The cover is portable, so could be used at work or anytime car is parked for a long time.

Good idea!  I like the idea of a cover - but I don't think I could get an electric plug for an oil dipstick heater and/or block heater unless I got a covered parking spot, so that would negate the cover at least while I'm home.  Still, I love the outside-the-box, MMM-style thinking.

[RetiredAt63]

Cold starts - well my car starts fine in an unheated garage, unless it is REALLY cold out.  When it is really cold, there needs to be no other drain on the battery - i.e. radio is off, heater fan is off.  Our first house, as I said, had no garage.  Our car had a block heater - when we got home in the evening, we would plug the extension cord into the block heater, then first thing in the morning we would plug the other end of the cord into an outlet.  That hour-plus was enough to warm the oil up. My car will be going in soon for the winter tires and oil change, etc., and I will see what they do to get it ready.  I know they used to put a lighter oil in for winter, not sure if they still do.  And of course the battery needs to be in good shape.

10F is only -12C - that is not all that cold.  -25 C is cold.  We went to the Caribbean once and the temperature early in the morning at Mirabel airport was -40C, - 50C with the wind chill.  That was cold.  They had trouble starting the plane engines that time!

[nereo]

10F is only -12C - that is not all that cold.  -25 C is cold.  We went to the Caribbean once and the temperature early in the morning at Mirabel airport was -40C, - 50C with the wind chill.  That was cold.  They had trouble starting the plane engines that time!

10F+/-12ºC is when I can actually notice the car struggling to start but we certainly have colder days.  -20ºC/-4ºF is the norm here for 3 months, and -30ºC on colder snaps.  That's around my personal cold-limit.  At -50ºC I'm pretty sure I'd just stay home, regardless of whether my car would start or not!

I'd really like to use a block heater, but for me the choices seem to be free on-street parking (and no electrical outlet, hence no block heater) or pay for covered parking that is almost always below-ground and therefore usually a bit above freezing temp (which negates the need for a block heater, but then creates a warmer enviornment where the salt may ruin my car faster as TheGoblinChief suggested).
 

[GuitarStv]

The number one reason I like to have covered parking in the winter is that I don't have to clear frost and snow off my car every frigging morning.  It's annoying, time consuming, and is never 100% cleared . . . which means you can't see quite as well when you set off on your journey.

[RetiredAt63]

+!  And if your windows are totally clear you are not a danger to those around you, because you can see.  And you don't have chunks of ice coming off the car to hit the windshield of the car behind you.

The number one reason I like to have covered parking in the winter is that I don't have to clear frost and snow off my car every frigging morning.  It's annoying, time consuming, and is never 100% cleared . . . which means you can't see quite as well when you set off on your journey.

[Thegoblinchief]

If the choice is between uncovered street parking and covered, heated parking I'd choose the latter but I'd peg the value at around $50/month, which works out to more than $100/month in the actual cold months - since I presume you're stuck paying for the covered space the full year.

I use my car so seldomly that once the temperatures drop I have to plug it into a trickle charger, otherwise the battery will be dead by the time I need to use it again.

[Bob W]

If you have had no problem starting your car in past winters then I see no problem with the car cover concept.    And I would still consider it if you have frequent snow, freezing rain etc when parking at work.   

Be sure to consider a lighter winter grade oil. 

A fourth option is to see if you can rent the indoor space for only 3 months per year.

Mathematically,  the $600 per year is not too bad.   You'll walk taller,  feel better and generally save time and frustration.  If it was me, I'd probably do it. 

It will slow down your RE date by maybe a couple of months over the long haul. 

I assume you will be moving to an area where the weather is decent at some point. 

Then there is the question of alternative ways to arrive at work?  Is there a coworker to carpool with?   Is there a bus?   Could you work from home on cold nasty days?   Could you flex your schedule?   Is there a ride sharing program in your area.

If you think creatively,  you might find that your reason to drive might not be that big.

[MrFancypants]

Starting a car is usually where the most wear happens, and starting it outside in the winter time isn't really the best because it takes longer for the engine to reach operating temperatures.  That said, with dual weight oils it isn't exactly death to an engine as long as you operate it gently before the oil is thoroughly warmed up.

[nereo]

If you have had no problem starting your car in past winters then I see no problem with the car cover concept.    And I would still consider it if you have frequent snow, freezing rain etc when parking at work.   

Be sure to consider a lighter winter grade oil. 

A fourth option is to see if you can rent the indoor space for only 3 months per year.

Then there is the question of alternative ways to arrive at work?  Is there a coworker to carpool with?   Is there a bus?   Could you work from home on cold nasty days?   Could you flex your schedule?   Is there a ride sharing program in your area.

Thanks. I don't commute to work with my car - we use it ~2 times/week for skiing and visiting family unreachable otherwise.  In some ways this almost seems worse because parked in the sun and used sporadically there's never a time when it is NOT covered in ice... it snows, and then the sun hits it and it forms a freezing/icy mess. There's a lot of scraping and the entire underside (out of the sun) grows icicles.  Yes, it's a black car.  I've taken to brushing the snow off every time (whether I'm using the car or not) but that's a pain when it's parked in the wrong direction of my work.
It's certainly possible to rent a space for 3-4 months here - lots of 'snowbirds' who lease out their parking spot for the winter.  the background for my post is I've been trying to figure out what a spot is "worth" for those 4 months.  My car has always started in cold (knock on wood) but it just feels sluggish and belts squeel whenever it starts any colder than about 10ºF/-12ºC. I'll look into a lighter winter oil, but i'm already 5w/20.
thanks for all the ideas!

[Gmullz]

Covered yes, climate controlled no. Unless you're washing with an undercarriage flush every time you drive and go back to the garage, the extra thaw cycles just lets the salt work faster.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

Anyone who is concerned about wear and tear on their engine over the body is either driving too much, or has a car made from entirely carbon fibre. The body will fall apart before your engine. If you have a damp, heated garage, it will destroy your car's body in the winter time, especially if your local municipality uses much salt on the roads.

My mother bought a new 2008 Mazda 3 one month after I bought my very own new 2008 Mazda 3 (I've since sold it and gone carless - biking my way to freedom). I parked mine outside all year round, while she, contrary to my mine and my dad's warnings, parked it in a heated garage nightly during the winter - not a day goes by that she doesn't drive. Her car is rusting to hell in many spots, while mine had no noticeable rust at all when I sold it two weeks ago.

[Cassie]

We lived for many years in Wis and never had a garage. The cars may have looked older but still ran fine but did have some rust but not horrible. 

[Northerly]

We routinely have winter temps below -30F here, bottoming out around -50F. Overall, I think the most important thing is to run synthetic motor oil. If in doubt, during your next cold snap, do a comparison test: 5W30 conventional vs 5w30 synthetic poured cold. There is a massive difference. Google low temperature viscosity for more.

With our severe temps, I use a timed outlet to power heaters on the car a couple hours before startup: block heater, battery pad, and oil pan pad. If you have an auto transmission, a heating pad is recommended for that as well. Pretty cheap overall install, and well worth it below about +10F.

[MrFancypants]

Covered yes, climate controlled no. Unless you're washing with an undercarriage flush every time you drive and go back to the garage, the extra thaw cycles just lets the salt work faster.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

Anyone who is concerned about wear and tear on their engine over the body is either driving too much, or has a car made from entirely carbon fibre. The body will fall apart before your engine. If you have a damp, heated garage, it will destroy your car's body in the winter time, especially if your local municipality uses much salt on the roads.

My mother bought a new 2008 Mazda 3 one month after I bought my very own new 2008 Mazda 3 (I've since sold it and gone carless - biking my way to freedom). I parked mine outside all year round, while she, contrary to my mine and my dad's warnings, parked it in a heated garage nightly during the winter - not a day goes by that she doesn't drive. Her car is rusting to hell in many spots, while mine had no noticeable rust at all when I sold it two weeks ago.

Let's be fair here though.... Mazdas are notorious for their rust issues. That car didn't stand a chance no matter where it was parked.

I agree with what you're saying about engines outlasting bodies in northern vehicles though.

[jmusic]

I know the OP and everyone is mostly talking about winter, but I live in San Diego, where there isn't one to my knowledge...  :)

I just thought I'd add that garaging a car definitely makes a difference in the summertime too.  I recently bought a 2008 Honda Fit (stick shift too!) that clearly wasn't garaged or generally cared for very well.  I probably paid too much, but oh well.  Anyway, the big giveaways are the paint fading, headlights hazing, and the rubber bits on the outside of the car are starting to develop cracks. 

Of course, when I bought it one of the first things I did was to give the car a good wash, used a clay bar to remove the contaminants, and wax.  There's some products out there to take care of the hazing, but I'm not yet sure which one to go with, so I haven't done anything about that yet.  Hmm, I just read that coconut oil is a good rubber conditioner... :)

[brooklynguy]

If the choice is between uncovered street parking and covered, heated parking I'd choose the latter but I'd peg the value at around $50/month, which works out to more than $100/month in the actual cold months - since I presume you're stuck paying for the covered space the full year.

I wouldn't place the value nearly this high.  $50 a month is more than enough to purchase a brand new (used) car every ten years.

[Bob W]

If you have had no problem starting your car in past winters then I see no problem with the car cover concept.    And I would still consider it if you have frequent snow, freezing rain etc when parking at work.   

Be sure to consider a lighter winter grade oil. 

A fourth option is to see if you can rent the indoor space for only 3 months per year.

Then there is the question of alternative ways to arrive at work?  Is there a coworker to carpool with?   Is there a bus?   Could you work from home on cold nasty days?   Could you flex your schedule?   Is there a ride sharing program in your area.

Thanks. I don't commute to work with my car - we use it ~2 times/week for skiing and visiting family unreachable otherwise.  In some ways this almost seems worse because parked in the sun and used sporadically there's never a time when it is NOT covered in ice... it snows, and then the sun hits it and it forms a freezing/icy mess. There's a lot of scraping and the entire underside (out of the sun) grows icicles.  Yes, it's a black car.  I've taken to brushing the snow off every time (whether I'm using the car or not) but that's a pain when it's parked in the wrong direction of my work.
It's certainly possible to rent a space for 3-4 months here - lots of 'snowbirds' who lease out their parking spot for the winter.  the background for my post is I've been trying to figure out what a spot is "worth" for those 4 months.  My car has always started in cold (knock on wood) but it just feels sluggish and belts squeel whenever it starts any colder than about 10ºF/-12ºC. I'll look into a lighter winter oil, but i'm already 5w/20.
thanks for all the ideas!

Oh, I see.   So you only use the car about 16-20 times in the bad winter months?   In that case I'm leaning towards the car cover.  My thinking on the garage was based on going out in subzero temps at 6 a.m. to start the car while deicing.   

So if all I need to do is pull a cover off 18 times a winter, I might let the frugality guy rule over the spendy guy. 

Either way it is a comfort and judgement call on your part with very little cost.

You're better to focus on how to trim another $100 out of your monthly budget.   Somehow I think if you are skiing on lots of weekends there may be a bit of entertainment spending in the budget?   

[hodedofome]

Whether it costs more money or not, parking in a garage is worth every penny. For one thing, it forces you to not use your garage as a storage unit. i.e. you won't have as much crap laying around. The main thing, however, is that nothing beats not having to shovel snow or burn yourself on the steering wheel in the summer.

After parking in a garage these past 9 years, there's no way I could go back.

[nereo]

Oh, I see.   So you only use the car about 16-20 times in the bad winter months?   In that case I'm leaning towards the car cover.  My thinking on the garage was based on going out in subzero temps at 6 a.m. to start the car while deicing.   

So if all I need to do is pull a cover off 18 times a winter, I might let the frugality guy rule over the spendy guy.

Either way it is a comfort and judgement call on your part with very little cost.

You're better to focus on how to trim another $100 out of your monthly budget.   Somehow I think if you are skiing on lots of weekends there may be a bit of entertainment spending in the budget?   

Thanks.  By my calculations we use the car more like ~40+times/winter (winter here goes from Nov into April), but I think your point is still valid.  Thankfully I don't have to ever get up at 6am to de-ice my car to commute to work :-)
There's actually not much in our entertainment budget - we have nite ski passes to our local mountain (~$300 for two) - we bring our own food and generally carpool with friends who help pay for fuel.  It's still a luxury/entertainment but not one we're prepared to give up.

[Bob W]

Good for you on the ski passes.  Would never give that up myself! 

Let us know what you decide.

[rugorak]

I think given your scenario it isn't worth your money. A cover is probably the way to go. I live in Upstate NY and had an attached garage on the house I rented for 8 years. I just moved a year ago for a much better job but now am in a apartment and have to park outdoors. I miss the garage but it isn't a huge huge deal.

In general terms I think most of us are in agreement that having some sort of a garage is probably a good idea assuming the costs are minimal. (So no heat or A/C, no insane extra money just to have a garage). It probably will extend the life of your vehicle plus can save some costs in other ways. I know for example the only way I can get the ice off on some days is to run the car while I am scraping to get it to heat up enough. But when kept in the garage no need for that so I am not wasting fuel.