Author Topic: Americans Stressed about Money  (Read 14786 times)

dungoofed

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Americans Stressed about Money
« on: February 15, 2015, 03:35:43 PM »
More than 1 in 4 Americans report they feel stressed over money most or all of the time, and most say their stress over money has either remained about the same as last year (59%) or gotten worse (29%).

http://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-sn-stress-report-money-inequality-20150205-story.html

I know I think about money a lot, and money has been involved in some of the most stressful events in my life, but I'd never say I feel stressed about it "most or all of the time." Feeling a little more thankful after reading that article.

It also begs the question, why is this an issue when the US economy has supposedly recovered?

briandougherty

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2015, 03:39:25 PM »
It also begs the question, why is this an issue when the US economy has supposedly recovered?

A large percentage of the people who worry have the means to live a perfectly decent life if they spent less and saved more.

I'm not one of the people here who think there are no structural problems in our economy, but we also have a problem of a middle class that wants to live well beyond its means.

Syonyk

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2015, 05:48:51 PM »
It also begs the question, why is this an issue when the US economy has supposedly recovered?

Well, first, because if you look at numbers that matter and reflect reality, rather than numbers that are gamed and the subject of "policy targets," it hasn't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law is a useful bit of wisdom with regards to GDP and unemployment numbers.

Employment is down, wages are stagnant, inflation is above "official numbers" assuming you eat/drive/use energy/use medical care/go to college, and a lot of people are generally living beyond their means by using debt.  It's a reasonable approach, given that our government uses it, but it's not a ticket to a stress free life.

willow

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2015, 07:14:54 PM »
It also begs the question, why is this an issue when the US economy has supposedly recovered?

A large percentage of the people who worry have the means to live a perfectly decent life if they spent less and saved more.

I'm not one of the people here who think there are no structural problems in our economy, but we also have a problem of a middle class that wants to live well beyond its means.

here here

PatStab

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2015, 09:07:54 PM »
I was raised by depression era parents, they drilled into me no debt, absolutely no debt.  My husband came from a younger family but he was raised the same way, no debt.

So that is something we just didn't do.  We had a couple of small house loans but paid them off in a few years.  We always bought fixer upper houses and did it ourselves.  This last one we bought newer because we wanted to go into retirement with a nice home.

I have never felt stressed over money, we just lived within our means throughout our lives.  Since we grew up with little money I guess neither of us felt like we were missing anything.  We had mobile homes the first few years never bothered us, we eventually got nice houses.

I guess we did good because our son is the same, her is pretty frugal, said mom I owe nothing and when I get back to the states intend to buy a house.  I said with no credit here how?  He said I will pay cash, so a chip off the old block.

We do worry about our daughters care though eventually we figure the state will take over her care, that is our only real concern.  We have had a good life and hope to continue.  It's very simple, live within your means whatever it is and save first.  However, I know this is going to be a challenge with low paid jobs and other issues, I do feel for young families.

So drop the expensive cellphones, I have a prepaid T Mobile, the expensive TV packages, this is enough money to pay rent or your bills between the two. Just a couple of suggestions.  Just remember you can be as happy as you want to be.


Syonyk

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2015, 09:57:33 PM »
I thought poorly of my friend who got married & bought a mobile home for $15k or so cash ($200-$300/mo rent on the land).

Then they bought a house after a few years.  Cash.

I wasn't thinking so poorly of them then.  :/

kathrynd

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2015, 10:23:58 PM »
Most people are ignorant (lack of knowledge...not necessarily stupid) about money and finances.

Most people learn from their families, and if their families aren't good role models, it may take longer.

My parents weren't frugal, as such....but not crazy with money either.
My oldest brother and wife were frugal , and they were the 'cheapskates' of the family...who very quickly became millionaires.
Thankfully, I paid attention, and learned a lot, basically by osmosis.

Now with internet, and a lot more information on tv, it really is a lot easier.

Our first home was a small mobile, then we built our house, then bought a larger one...we did it in steps.
The later generations, seem to want to start out with the house, their parents own.

Having so much available credit, abundance of fast food, 'buy now, pay later', is drawing a lot of people into huge debt.
Student loans  for people who also have no business going...because it  was only used to delay going to work.
People never save for anything, it's 'how much is the monthly payment?"

People could stop stressing so easily about their finances.
First step, is to cancel cable,internet and phone.
Don't buy a new vehicle.
Stop eating at restaurants.
Stop smoking and drinking.
Don't spend more than $25 a week groceries for each family member, per week.
Stop throwing away  food (having a really low food budget will help with this)
Start using the 3 R- reduce, reuse, recycle.
Pay off your debt.


Now that you don't have tv, you have lots of time to prepare food, do repairs, and read DIY books.
Consider working overtime, or taking a part time job.


Syonyk

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2015, 10:33:32 PM »
You've just suggested people engage in the uniquely American form of Hell. :p

kathrynd

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2015, 10:40:25 PM »
You've just suggested people engage in the uniquely American form of Hell. :p

Quite possibly....
but many are already living it, because they are so stressed


I love frugality...
I also have phone, internet and cable  (cheap package)
I love finding a nickle on the ground (pennies phased out of Canada/Australia)

Syonyk

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2015, 11:09:22 PM »
Oh, absolutely, many people are in that state.

It's very different choosing to be there vs being forced there.

kathrynd

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2015, 11:21:22 PM »
Oh, absolutely, many people are in that state.

It's very different choosing to be there vs being forced there.

Don't think many would be considered 'forced'...
they made stupid choices

PatStab

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2015, 07:02:21 AM »
I've tried to explain to people they don't have to be so strapped for cash by making some changes in their lives.  You just quit when their eyes glaze over, no clue. 

Davids

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2015, 08:42:10 AM »
Try explaining the idea of frugality to other people, they will just choose not to listen. So I say let them spend more and complain about not having money. Their problem, not mine. And when you overhear something be sure to post it in the antimustachian forum so we all can enjoy a good laugh.

Capsu78

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2015, 08:53:54 AM »
There have been a flurry of articles and stories in the US media written about the "feelings" associated with middle class expectations in the past few weeks.  I hate to say it but I suspect it is battle space preparation for the 2016 election cycle.  Journalists are being instructed to go out and find stories "like these" to keep the clicks coming so the media companies can sell future ad space to those candidates who already have selected "the middle class is getting hammered" meme.
I find this completely irritating because we are getting locked into a perpetual election cycle- one coming up, having one, one just got over- rinse and repeat again and again.  We have a special circle of hell in my area- an over lapping mayor election that kicked off last July and ends tomorrow meaning we have endured none stop political ads since late 2013. 

willow

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2015, 05:58:02 PM »
I've tried to explain to people they don't have to be so strapped for cash by making some changes in their lives.  You just quit when their eyes glaze over, no clue.

I can stop an otherwise lively conversation between friends by mentioning I want to pay off my mortgage in the next 3 years. Dead silence.

I try to work it in casually as a way to spot other mustachians but have gotten no successful hits(not from people my age). Pretty sure people just think I'm crazy.

PatStab

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2015, 07:06:38 AM »
I think paying off a mortgage frees up money for investing or anything else you need to use it for.  To me a very smart move.

Syonyk

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2015, 08:06:21 AM »
The usual response I get to talking about paying things off early is a weak, "Well, yeah, but you could invest and make more, in theory..."

Than I explain that debt, to me, is worth a few percent more in terms of mental stress, even if I have the money to pay it off, plus investment returns are not guaranteed, and people just sort of stop talking.

Our culture is so steeped in debt as a way of life that a lot of people, even very smart people, can't conceive any other way to do things.

PatStab

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2015, 11:05:52 AM »
I know I have been made fun of all my life because we have always lived debt free.
And yet we are millionaires plus and when I needed to I was able to quit work to take care
of family.  Of course we can't tell any one that that we know only on anonymous message boards. 

Kaspian

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2015, 02:24:44 PM »
If the media began constantly reporting on a high number of frugal people who didn't spend like idiots, had a high net worth, and eventually retired young,  then that behaviour would slowly become the new norm and the sheeple would soon follow suit.  Advertising dollars would plummet as people stopped buying junk.  (Is the real profit of the world in fresh produce or selling plastic crap you don't need from China?)   No more Black Friday ads?  Hell, the TV stations would be shooting themselves in the foot!  No, best to keep the people keeping up with the Kardashians, spread the idea that everything can be yours right now (because heck, you deserve it!), and that a mile of debt is normal.  If it gets to be too stressful, they can always point you toward somebody else to blame.  I dunno...  Latinos, the rich, people on welfare, or immigrants, or Russia, or homosexuals, or somethin'.  Surely there's somebody out there whose fault it is that you're stressed.

Syonyk

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2015, 02:35:38 PM »
"Lifestyles of the Sane, Frugal, and Happy" probably wouldn't get many viewers...

The only way you're allowed to show people like that on TV is is you find the most extreme examples you can so everyone else can point and laugh.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_Couponing is apparently a show, and of course "Doomsday Preppers" focuses on the extreme end, instead of people who have a bit of food saved up in case they're, dunno, snowed in or something.

My wife & I feel pretty badly disconnected from "contemporary culture" because we don't watch much TV at all.  It's really nice not being told what we should be wanting - at this point, TV commercials are actually an amusing curiosity for me, since I see them so rarely.

Unfortunately, "up to their neck in debt and missing payments" people are way, way more profitable for banks & CC companies than "has money in the bank, pays off any CCs in full every month, doesn't buy stupid stuff they don't need with money they don't have" types.

And, we've more or less let the credit card companies handle financial training for an entire generation.  The peak of financial wisdom a lot of people seem to get is, "You have to get a good credit score so you can get better interest rates later in life!"  It's utterly assumed that of COURSE you will have credit card debt, and that doing so responsibly is important so you can take on more debt later in life.

Neustache

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2015, 04:49:09 PM »
I'm sure there are those out there who are legitimately stressed about money, for reasons beyond their control.  But the ones I know make bad decision after bad decision, and they have a household income of 50K plus, in a very low cost of living area (nice houses can be had for 130K).

It's beyond frustrating, but only I when I let it be.  If I can, I try to just be amused by it. 

MrMonkeyMustache

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2015, 12:31:44 AM »


It's beyond frustrating, but only I when I let it be.  If I can, I try to just be amused by it.
Well, being stressed about other people being stressed about money is kind of failing the "not being stressed about money" thing ;)

Neustache

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2015, 05:30:52 AM »
Ha! I'm usually more amused by it than anything, but sometimes when I care too much about the person the frustration creeps in, in which case I have to repeat "Not my problem to fix."

coppertop

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2015, 07:59:26 AM »
There's a person at work who is on his second bankruptcy.  I was shocked when I found out that you can declare bankruptcy multiple times in your life - just not more frequently than every seven years.  Anybody can screw up once, but I don't think people should be allowed to be serial bankrupts.  He declared bankruptcy to stop the foreclosure on his home.  He doesn't make his court-ordered payments and then whines when he has to go in and explain himself.  I prepare payroll and know what he makes.  He should be able to make it on his salary.  He goes around the place telling everyone his tales of woe because he has found that there are a few who will give him gifts of items and cash if he makes himself sound pathetic enough. It's sickening to watch.  When I first got this job and saw what was happening, I tried to give him some helpful advice when he'd complain to me, but if I suggested he put away $10 a week for emergencies so when his washing machine or car broke, he'd have some money to fix them...and his response would be "My kid's gotta eat."  Yeah, a real brain trust there.  I gave up.

GardenFun

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2015, 08:17:22 AM »
Your environment definitely can impact the stress feeling.  Unknown to us, we bought our only house 13 years ago in an area where "corporate people" tend to live.  While the public schools are great, its amazing the amount of pressure people put on themselves to meet the corporate lifestyle - new SUV's every 3 years, house upgrades, high-end name brand clothes, numerous vacations per year.  All these expectations can stress out families, even those with incomes double (or more) the national average.

However, move 1 town over and you are in farm country.  Schools are still decent, but the focus is more on coming home and helping on the farm.  The image stress is much lower.  These two towns join together for high school and it's amazing to hear the reactions from the "corporate kids" about the "farm kids":  Can you believe they wear Carhartt?  No one owns North Face?  What do you mean they drive their snowmobiles to school? (I personally think the last one is awesome!).  Once my kids are in high school, it will be interesting to see how each group influences each other. 

pachnik

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2015, 08:28:16 AM »
Your environment definitely can impact the stress feeling.  Unknown to us, we bought our only house 13 years ago in an area where "corporate people" tend to live.  While the public schools are great, its amazing the amount of pressure people put on themselves to meet the corporate lifestyle - new SUV's every 3 years, house upgrades, high-end name brand clothes, numerous vacations per year.  All these expectations can stress out families, even those with incomes double (or more) the national average.
+1 to this.  The girlfriend of a friend lives in a neighbourhood like this.  Lots of keeping up with the Joneses.  Just awful really.  Where my husband and I live isn't like this which is a huge bonus.  We've been in our new neighbourhood for 6 months now and no one has even bought a new car that I've noticed. 

caseyzee

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2015, 09:08:23 AM »
Wow, this thread is amazing to me!

Am I really the only person here who worries about money?  Ack, am I weird?

Seriously, I worry about money a lot.  If I were taking a survey, my answer to that question would be a resounding yes!

I guess I'll have to take a close look at myself.  I actually have a lot of money.  I actually make a lot of money.  I don't spend my money terribly unwisely.  I do work in a dying industry and have a lot of competing things I want to do with my money, though.  HCOL, childcare, retirement, etc. 

I am not financially independent.  I am the sole support of 2 kids.  And I worry about money!

Metta

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2015, 09:18:18 AM »
Wow, this thread is amazing to me!

Am I really the only person here who worries about money?  Ack, am I weird?

Seriously, I worry about money a lot.  If I were taking a survey, my answer to that question would be a resounding yes!

I guess I'll have to take a close look at myself.  I actually have a lot of money.  I actually make a lot of money.  I don't spend my money terribly unwisely.  I do work in a dying industry and have a lot of competing things I want to do with my money, though.  HCOL, childcare, retirement, etc. 

I am not financially independent.  I am the sole support of 2 kids.  And I worry about money!

It's that pesky not FI that causes the worry. We worried plenty until we crossed over into the Promised Land of financial independence.

You will worry less eventually, too.

Middlesbrough

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2015, 09:41:49 AM »
Caseyzee, I am kind of with you but falling. I was frugal out of the gate after college and going to work full time, but there was no cushion right away. I was trying to shove money into HSA, 401k, IRA, pay off student loans(more than minimum), and still have money to build up expenses buffer. The first 18 months were stressful, but with each passing month it becomes less a stress and more like a game to be won. Now that I am in my 22(?) month, things are only getting more and more peachy. I still worry about money, but it is big picture staying badass and not what could kill my finances.

BlueMR2

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2015, 09:53:27 AM »
I'm stressed about it all the time.  I've got a good job and have done a good job saving, yet with my wife having been un/under employed for so long (which is a 25% loss in our income) plus how drastically healthcare pricing has shot up since the ACA took effect, and the generally really high unemployment (despite companies posting some record earnings)...  Leads to a lot of stress as things are obviously headed in the wrong direction here in the USA.  Not sure that all my saving will have been worthwhile as it may not be enough, especially with some of the asset reallocation plans floating around out there.

Kaspian

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2015, 10:43:40 AM »
There's a person at work who is on his second bankruptcy.  I was shocked when I found out that you can declare bankruptcy multiple times in your life - just not more frequently than every seven years.  Anybody can screw up once, but I don't think people should be allowed to be serial bankrupts.  He declared bankruptcy to stop the foreclosure on his home.  He doesn't make his court-ordered payments and then whines when he has to go in and explain himself.  I prepare payroll and know what he makes.  He should be able to make it on his salary.  He goes around the place telling everyone his tales of woe because he has found that there are a few who will give him gifts of items and cash if he makes himself sound pathetic enough. It's sickening to watch.  When I first got this job and saw what was happening, I tried to give him some helpful advice when he'd complain to me, but if I suggested he put away $10 a week for emergencies so when his washing machine or car broke, he'd have some money to fix them...and his response would be "My kid's gotta eat."  Yeah, a real brain trust there.  I gave up.

Ersh...  Terrible.  Just terrible!  I wonder how differently society would operate if there were still debtors prisons?  "You're in debt?  Can't pay it back?  Off to jail with you!"  ...Of course, they weren't like real jails with bars and stuff, just an enclosed housing compound you weren't allowed to leave until you somehow paid people back, worked off the debt, or weaseled family members into paying things off for you.

coppertop

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2015, 11:00:48 AM »
Ersh...  Terrible.  Just terrible!  I wonder how differently society would operate if there were still debtors prisons?  "You're in debt?  Can't pay it back?  Off to jail with you!"  ...Of course, they weren't like real jails with bars and stuff, just an enclosed housing compound you weren't allowed to leave until you somehow paid people back, worked off the debt, or weaseled family members into paying things off for you.
Where did I advocate debtors' prisons?  So you think it is okay for somebody to continually spend more money than they can pay back and for the courts to sanction wiping the slate clean for them over and over again?  What about the businesses and people who provided them goods and services in good faith?  I'm sorry; but after the first time, you shouldn't be allowed to do it again.  He knows he doesn't have to pay his bills; he'll just get himself in this pickle again and declare bankruptcy for a third time.  He already owes the bank more than he originally paid for the house.  I am not a big fan of banks, but they lent this guy the money to buy a house with the understanding that he would pay it back and if he didn't, they could foreclose.  However, they can't because he has twice declared bankruptcy to avoid his obligation.  This is not okay in my book.  I don't understand why it is okay in yours.

Kaspian

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2015, 11:03:59 AM »
.  This is not okay in my book.  I don't understand why it is okay in yours.

It's not okay in my book--I was agreeing with your points 100%!  I was just thinking instead of a lackadaisical attitude toward bankruptcy, I wonder how a guy like that would take things if the ramifications of debt were more serious?

tomq04

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2015, 11:12:11 AM »
I worry about trying to get my salary up.  Living on <50k with a wife and 2 kids is stressful.  We're as frugal as the come, but we still don't get our ends meeting on 11 out of 12 months.

I'm torn between the "luxury" of a nice stress free job, and being find another job that may pay 30-50% more but end up working 80 hour weeks.  Not necessarily willing to sacrifice my family for such a thing.  In this case, it is stressful. 

In general it's a biproduct of our life, which was mostly out of our control, but we are actively working on moving onward and upward, but to say it isn't stressful would be lying.  Just try to keep my complainy pants tucked away in the closet and never put them on.

Syonyk

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2015, 11:15:57 AM »
Seriously, I worry about money a lot.  If I were taking a survey, my answer to that question would be a resounding yes!

I guess I'll have to take a close look at myself.  I actually have a lot of money.  I actually make a lot of money.  I don't spend my money terribly unwisely.  I do work in a dying industry and have a lot of competing things I want to do with my money, though.  HCOL, childcare, retirement, etc. 

I am not financially independent.  I am the sole support of 2 kids.  And I worry about money!

How do you define "worry about money?"  It sounds like you're living within your means and have a surplus going to savings, with a good bit saved up, so what exactly are you worrying about?

I certainly still think about money, but it's in the context of long term planning, not "Ok, I need to pay for a new alternator, which... hm.  Ok, thermostat to 45..." (been there, done that, don't have any interest in going back - lessons in life, don't assume you can find roommates).

I'm not FI either, but I have a decent buffer, so there's not a huge amount worrying about it will accomplish.

I'm stressed about it all the time.  I've got a good job and have done a good job saving, yet with my wife having been un/under employed for so long (which is a 25% loss in our income) plus how drastically healthcare pricing has shot up since the ACA took effect, and the generally really high unemployment (despite companies posting some record earnings)...  Leads to a lot of stress as things are obviously headed in the wrong direction here in the USA.  Not sure that all my saving will have been worthwhile as it may not be enough, especially with some of the asset reallocation plans floating around out there.

Your wife doesn't have to be earning money.  She can just as easily be "not spending it" and contribute as much or more than she would working.  My wife literally spends less to feed both of us than I spent to feed me in the past, and we eat radically better.  She loves finding good deals on things we need, knows her way around the local thrift shops, and contributes immensely to our financial well being even if she's not bringing much (or, at this point, anything - kid due in a month) in.

If you're worried about the long term state of the US economy (which I'd argue is reasonable), maybe she can work on things that will help you weather the future - gardening, canning, knitting/crocheting goods, and generally the "household economy" side of things.

coppertop

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2015, 11:19:22 AM »
.  This is not okay in my book.  I don't understand why it is okay in yours.

It's not okay in my book--I was agreeing with your points 100%!  I was just thinking instead of a lackadaisical attitude toward bankruptcy, I wonder how a guy like that would take things if the ramifications of debt were more serious?
My apologies, Kaspian - I misunderstood your comments.  I get so angry when this guy tells me once again that he has to have a day off from work to go to court because 'they screwed up.'  He never, ever admits to fault on his part.  I guess that makes me irrational when it comes to this subject.

kathrynd

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2015, 10:22:00 PM »
Seriously, I worry about money a lot.  If I were taking a survey, my answer to that question would be a resounding yes!

I guess I'll have to take a close look at myself.  I actually have a lot of money.  I actually make a lot of money.  I don't spend my money terribly unwisely.  I do work in a dying industry and have a lot of competing things I want to do with my money, though.  HCOL, childcare, retirement, etc. 

I am not financially independent.  I am the sole support of 2 kids.  And I worry about money!

How do you define "worry about money?"  It sounds like you're living within your means and have a surplus going to savings, with a good bit saved up, so what exactly are you worrying about?

I certainly still think about money, but it's in the context of long term planning, not "Ok, I need to pay for a new alternator, which... hm.  Ok, thermostat to 45..." (been there, done that, don't have any interest in going back - lessons in life, don't assume you can find roommates).

I'm not FI either, but I have a decent buffer, so there's not a huge amount worrying about it will accomplish.

I'm stressed about it all the time.  I've got a good job and have done a good job saving, yet with my wife having been un/under employed for so long (which is a 25% loss in our income) plus how drastically healthcare pricing has shot up since the ACA took effect, and the generally really high unemployment (despite companies posting some record earnings)...  Leads to a lot of stress as things are obviously headed in the wrong direction here in the USA.  Not sure that all my saving will have been worthwhile as it may not be enough, especially with some of the asset reallocation plans floating around out there.

Your wife doesn't have to be earning money.  She can just as easily be "not spending it" and contribute as much or more than she would working.  My wife literally spends less to feed both of us than I spent to feed me in the past, and we eat radically better.  She loves finding good deals on things we need, knows her way around the local thrift shops, and contributes immensely to our financial well being even if she's not bringing much (or, at this point, anything - kid due in a month) in.

If you're worried about the long term state of the US economy (which I'd argue is reasonable), maybe she can work on things that will help you weather the future - gardening, canning, knitting/crocheting goods, and generally the "household economy" side of things.


I wish more people thought like this.
Great post

humblefi

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2015, 12:23:40 AM »
There are three kinds of money worries I have seen/been around/experienced.

1. Worries about money decisions made in the past
   ++ Bought a home in the peak of 2007 in a HCOL area (friend)
   ++ Did not buy a home in 2009-2011 (me)
   ++ Did not invest money when I was young....(me)
2. Worries about money decisions of today
   ++ How will I pay my bills this month? (me)
   ++ My car broke down..how can I pay for it?  (me)
3. Worries about money decisions of the future?
   ++ How will I pay for retirement? (me)
   ++ How will I pay for my parent's care? (friend)
   ++ Will I have a job in 3 months? (me)
   ++ Can I even buy a house? (me)

People can be in any of the above three OR all three. At many points in life, I have had 1, 1+2, 1+2+3 types of money stress.
But, as I now chip away towards the long journey to FI, here is where I stand
+ I am least stressed about 1 (have come to peace with my past mostly)
+ I am 30% stressed about 2 (an emergency fund and a car repair fund helps me here).
+ I am 70% stressed about 3 (various reasons)

What has helped me with 3 is
+ Tracking my progress towards FI
+ Working hard to protect my current income.
+ Keeping expenses as low as possible
+ Working towards Passive income streams before buying a house.
+ Worry about smaller periods of time. For example, if I only consider tomorrow, I have some worries. If I consider 1 year, my worries increase dramatically.

It is a constant battle, but hopefully, this is helpful in some way.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 10:30:21 AM by humblefi »

Apples

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2015, 07:28:24 AM »
If two people in a relationship aren't on the same page about something, it will usually show up in the finances.  Trust issues evolve into money fights.  Inadequate discussions about wants and needs and goals turns into "he spent all this money on x, well I'm going to go get r because I deserve it", and unrealistic planning.  "Sure, we can get this house, car, and vacation-oh but now I have to go to the doctor! Woe is me!"  I think there's plenty of times that worry over money is actually worry over uncertainty (how long until I pay off this loan/get to FI/etc) or other issues that now fester as money issues.

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2015, 02:03:00 PM »
I'm not conscious of money stress the way I think this article is talking about, but, I grew up a kind of poor that means that I'm constantly aware of food security.


It's a strange thing for me, this having enough money to pay the bills business. I'm confident of it, finally, but definitely conscious of it most of the time when I'm awake. I think my husband is the same; he came from a similar background. We gloat on a regular basis over not having to worry about money, and that's been going on for several years. I'm not sure we're going to "grow out of it."



There's just too much childhood and not-so-childhood background noise for us to ever feel fully comfortable with comfort.


I don't know if I can make that make sense to someone who doesn't have the same psychology. I'll never not keep a huge pantry and a garden, never not stock ammunition to hunt with. It means, literally, I know where my next meal is coming from. That hasn't always been true, and that's a thing I'm discovering I'll never get over.


But this isn't about money worries or money anxiety, precisely. It's more fundamental than cash.

GardenFun

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #40 on: February 20, 2015, 03:04:55 PM »
I don't know if I can make that make sense to someone who doesn't have the same psychology. I'll never not keep a huge pantry and a garden, never not stock ammunition to hunt with. It means, literally, I know where my next meal is coming from. That hasn't always been true, and that's a thing I'm discovering I'll never get over.

But this isn't about money worries or money anxiety, precisely. It's more fundamental than cash.

Love this.  Any time money was tight around the house, I constantly looked at my parent's full pantry and freezer for emotional comfort.  Parents were also hunters/fishermen.  Needless to say, that has evolved into my full pantry and freezer.  While we have the money to support any major job loss, it is the food security that gives me the most reassurance. 

Metta

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #41 on: February 20, 2015, 03:24:15 PM »
I'm not conscious of money stress the way I think this article is talking about, but, I grew up a kind of poor that means that I'm constantly aware of food security.


It's a strange thing for me, this having enough money to pay the bills business. I'm confident of it, finally, but definitely conscious of it most of the time when I'm awake. I think my husband is the same; he came from a similar background. We gloat on a regular basis over not having to worry about money, and that's been going on for several years. I'm not sure we're going to "grow out of it."



There's just too much childhood and not-so-childhood background noise for us to ever feel fully comfortable with comfort.


I don't know if I can make that make sense to someone who doesn't have the same psychology. I'll never not keep a huge pantry and a garden, never not stock ammunition to hunt with. It means, literally, I know where my next meal is coming from. That hasn't always been true, and that's a thing I'm discovering I'll never get over.


But this isn't about money worries or money anxiety, precisely. It's more fundamental than cash.

I understand completely! I grew up middle class but I left home early under difficult circumstances and landed in a bad situation where I didn't know which days in the week I would get to eat. I only spent a bit under a year in that situation but it changed me. I will never not have stockpiles of food. Just knowing that I have fifty pounds of wheat and loads of canned goods in the garage makes me feel warm and happy.

My husband grew up poor and he feels the same about money. Without his dragon hoard, he feels vulnerable.

kathrynd

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Re: Americans Stressed about Money
« Reply #42 on: February 20, 2015, 09:54:32 PM »
I was 18 on had been on my own for about a year, by then.
The factory where I worked, we went on strike for 3 weeks, so no money coming in.

At that time, I remember buying cans and cans of tomato soup (must have had about 30).
I've always had a stocked pantry since then.

Looking back, it was probably the best thing that could have happened to me..