Author Topic: America's High-Earning "Poor"  (Read 20941 times)

2lazy2retire

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Re: America's High-Earning "Poor"
« Reply #50 on: November 06, 2015, 12:28:15 PM »
You are still working (both) - I'm sorry but you are no way upper class,  straigth or otherwise
Wait. How does employment status determine class?
By this rationale, I could be a billionaire, and if DW and I both work, we're middle class...?

But would one not be safe to assume that anyone who posts on here and is still working needs to work and as such is unlikely to be upper class. Proper upper class is living off your investments, c'mon this is MMM 101 - "oh I have a large income so I am rich" - sorry you are not, but you have the potential to be

JLee

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Re: America's High-Earning "Poor"
« Reply #51 on: November 06, 2015, 12:32:30 PM »
You are still working (both) - I'm sorry but you are no way upper class,  straigth or otherwise
Wait. How does employment status determine class?
By this rationale, I could be a billionaire, and if DW and I both work, we're middle class...?

But would one not be safe to assume that anyone who posts on here and is still working needs to work and as such is unlikely to be upper class. Proper upper class is living off your investments, c'mon this is MMM 101 - "oh I have a large income so I am rich" - sorry you are not, but you have the potential to be
Nope.

Also, this: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2015/04/15/great-news-early-retirement-doesnt-mean-youll-stop-working/

Rezdent

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Re: America's High-Earning "Poor"
« Reply #52 on: November 06, 2015, 01:03:34 PM »
Careful, Zephyr911.
Taking on the IRP is a thankless exercise.

You are still working (both) - I'm sorry but you are no way upper class,  straigth or otherwise
Wait. How does employment status determine class?
By this rationale, I could be a billionaire, and if DW and I both work, we're middle class...?

But would one not be safe to assume that anyone who posts on here and is still working needs to work and as such is unlikely to be upper class. Proper upper class is living off your investments, c'mon this is MMM 101 - "oh I have a large income so I am rich" - sorry you are not, but you have the potential to be
Nope.

Also, this: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2015/04/15/great-news-early-retirement-doesnt-mean-youll-stop-working/

runningthroughFIRE

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Re: America's High-Earning "Poor"
« Reply #53 on: November 06, 2015, 01:17:23 PM »
You are still working (both) - I'm sorry but you are no way upper class,  straigth or otherwise
Wait. How does employment status determine class?
By this rationale, I could be a billionaire, and if DW and I both work, we're middle class...?

But would one not be safe to assume that anyone who posts on here and is still working needs to work and as such is unlikely to be upper class. Proper upper class is living off your investments, c'mon this is MMM 101 - "oh I have a large income so I am rich" - sorry you are not, but you have the potential to be
I think you've been sleeping in class

2lazy2retire

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Re: America's High-Earning "Poor"
« Reply #54 on: November 06, 2015, 01:33:50 PM »
You are still working (both) - I'm sorry but you are no way upper class,  straigth or otherwise
Wait. How does employment status determine class?
By this rationale, I could be a billionaire, and if DW and I both work, we're middle class...?

But would one not be safe to assume that anyone who posts on here and is still working needs to work and as such is unlikely to be upper class. Proper upper class is living off your investments, c'mon this is MMM 101 - "oh I have a large income so I am rich" - sorry you are not, but you have the potential to be
I think you've been sleeping in class
So are we all saying that if you earn 110k you are upper class - seriously -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_upper_class

meg_shannon

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Re: America's High-Earning "Poor"
« Reply #55 on: November 06, 2015, 01:42:19 PM »
^^^ So true Zephyr!

People love to trot out "BUT BUT BUT I live in a HCOL area, my 1 million dollar a year income doesn't go very far when housing costs 1 billion dollars in my city!".

To which I say:  bullshit.  If you make 1 million dollars a year (ok, actually lets say 75K a year or more, which is what this article is calling UMC) you have choices.  You are choosing to live in the HCOL area.  Thats fine- but own the fact that your high income gives you that choice. 

We have a HHI of about 110K a year.  We are firmly UMC.  Maybe even straight Upper.  Doesn't mean we spend like the stereotypical upper class (yachts and whatnot, lol) but in no way shape or form are we middle class.

The reason some people MAKE 75k is because they are in a HCOL area. You cannot simply say, "Hey I make 100k here, but houses are a lot, lets move to Alabama!"

You still have choices where you want to live. We used to live near Princeton NJ, my husband works for one of their labs. We could have chosen to live in Princeton, where 2 bedrooms go for 2000$/month and up. Or we could have chosen to live in Trenton, less than 10 miles away, where rents are cheap because it's a post-industrial major city with high poverty. We picked somewhere in the middle. Note: many of his colleagues still told him that we lived in a "dangerous area." It wasn't.

TheAnonOne

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Re: America's High-Earning "Poor"
« Reply #56 on: November 06, 2015, 01:50:04 PM »
You are still working (both) - I'm sorry but you are no way upper class,  straigth or otherwise
Wait. How does employment status determine class?
By this rationale, I could be a billionaire, and if DW and I both work, we're middle class...?

But would one not be safe to assume that anyone who posts on here and is still working needs to work and as such is unlikely to be upper class. Proper upper class is living off your investments, c'mon this is MMM 101 - "oh I have a large income so I am rich" - sorry you are not, but you have the potential to be
I think you've been sleeping in class
So are we all saying that if you earn 110k you are upper class - seriously -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_upper_class

No 110k is not upper class (it's not even a very high HHI). Especially by household income 2+ people working....

People simply took aim at the "if two people are working you can't be upper class" comment.

runningthroughFIRE

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Re: America's High-Earning "Poor"
« Reply #57 on: November 06, 2015, 01:53:49 PM »
You are still working (both) - I'm sorry but you are no way upper class,  straigth or otherwise
Wait. How does employment status determine class?
By this rationale, I could be a billionaire, and if DW and I both work, we're middle class...?

But would one not be safe to assume that anyone who posts on here and is still working needs to work and as such is unlikely to be upper class. Proper upper class is living off your investments, c'mon this is MMM 101 - "oh I have a large income so I am rich" - sorry you are not, but you have the potential to be
I think you've been sleeping in class
So are we all saying that if you earn 110k you are upper class - seriously -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_upper_class
Hardly.  From your own source:
Quote
As great financial fortune is the main distinguishing feature of this class, sociologist Leonard Beeghley at the University of Florida identifies all "rich" households, those with incomes in the top 1% or so, as upper class.
The issue with your statement is where you claimed that everyone working must need the money.  There are many reasons to work other than money, and there's even a popular (somewhat overused, imo) phrase about this: Teachers don't do it for the money.

2lazy2retire

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Re: America's High-Earning "Poor"
« Reply #58 on: November 06, 2015, 02:08:18 PM »
You are still working (both) - I'm sorry but you are no way upper class,  straigth or otherwise
Wait. How does employment status determine class?
By this rationale, I could be a billionaire, and if DW and I both work, we're middle class...?

But would one not be safe to assume that anyone who posts on here and is still working needs to work and as such is unlikely to be upper class. Proper upper class is living off your investments, c'mon this is MMM 101 - "oh I have a large income so I am rich" - sorry you are not, but you have the potential to be
I think you've been sleeping in class
So are we all saying that if you earn 110k you are upper class - seriously -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_upper_class

No 110k is not upper class (it's not even a very high HHI). Especially by household income 2+ people working....

People simply took aim at the "if two people are working you can't be upper class" comment.

Ok I feel I need to clarify that comment as it seems to have caused confusion,

I was making some assumptions

The 110k earner was still working, been posters on MMM would likely suggest that they aspire to FIRE, my comment about them still working was to point out if they were really upper class as he claimed to be, then having to work for that 110K is not likely.

Dicey

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Re: America's High-Earning "Poor"
« Reply #59 on: November 06, 2015, 02:33:38 PM »

I personally don't understand why anyone who makes 6 figures would ever work more than a few years since you could easily FIRE in less than a decade.

Because people don't want to live on $10K, $20K or even $30K per year. There are people on these boards who pay $12K per year in property taxes.
Ouch! This one hit home. However, the house is paid off and so are the cars. We're FI, I'm retired (but not drawing any income yet) and DH is still working (for very lucrative pension and healthcare reasons). He earns around $75k, and we have plenty o' plenty to live on and to continue saving, so the property tax bill, as oppressive as it is, doesn't derail us. It's still somewhat shocking to me that we can pay it without difficulty. My first salaried job paid only $13k per year, and I thought I was rich!

Squirrel away

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Re: America's High-Earning "Poor"
« Reply #60 on: November 07, 2015, 04:36:26 AM »
I think class in the UK is different to class in the US, you wouldn't be considered upper middle class based purely on income. It is more to do with your upbringing, background, family, what uni you attended, your accent etc...

Even after we reach financial independence we still wouldn't be considered upper middle class.:P My husband didn't even go to uni so he wouldn't be considered even middle class.

MrStash2000

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Re: America's High-Earning "Poor"
« Reply #61 on: November 07, 2015, 04:55:07 AM »
People are flat out under-invested. This bodes well for us in the long term with our stock market accounts.

big_slacker

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Re: America's High-Earning "Poor"
« Reply #62 on: November 07, 2015, 08:50:06 AM »
Few points, on the hcol vs income I did a spreadsheet when I was considering moving from NV to either the bay area or Seattle area. Bay Area it wasn't worth the move due to taxes and housing cost, Seattle area it was a net gain. But the true power was the availability to advance higher. I was 100k in NV and there are next to no techie jobs much higher than that. Up here my total comp started at 135k and now 175ish with several pay grades above my current! :-0

This is the reality in my industry, it's difficult to hit the upper echelon of jobs (real Sr. engineers, enterprise architects, etc.) if you don't live near one of the main HQs of the big businesses. You can live in an outlying area that is lower but you'll be commuting in and the commute is a BITCH. In my case I choke every month writing the rent check but riding my bike to the office, the $9k 401k match, 10% off stock and throwing more than ever into savings every month removes a lot of the sting.

And yes, I'd say we're certainly middle class but at the high end of that. Maybe if I made the same and still lived in NV we'd be on the low end of rich. ;)

In terms of the original article, I see some of this daily. Loads of 6 figure salaries and a lot of people driving bmw's, tesla, designer clothes, rolex and so on. But when I talk to coworkers a lot of them are financing said lifestyle, not contributing or undercontrinuting to 401k and leaving free money on the table is so common it's not even shocking. However like 1 in 10 have leveraged the big bonuses, stock options and so on to pay off houses and build FU money. That doesn't mean they are MMM frugal, they might still have some displays of wealth but they're far from "All hat, no cattle."

And I think that's the main point of the OP. I wouldn't expect everyone to be MMM but we are way out of balance as a country with or spending habits. That's not news to anyone here I hope. :)

Malum Prohibitum

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Re: America's High-Earning "Poor"
« Reply #63 on: November 07, 2015, 09:27:21 AM »
Interesting numbers regarding assets and debt-asset ratio for people earning $50k-$75k and $75k-$100k.

http://qz.com/520414/the-high-earning-poor/?utm_source=YPL
  Interesting, indeed.  This article describes me perfectly, and, from what I have seen, also describes quite a bit of new members here, who are just now seeing the light.  Somehow I do not feel very comforted to know I am just like everybody else my age and income level.  I am glad I am making some changes.

nobodyspecial

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Re: America's High-Earning "Poor"
« Reply #64 on: November 07, 2015, 11:00:09 AM »
Wait. How does employment status determine class?
By this rationale, I could be a billionaire, and if DW and I both work, we're middle class...?
A big difference between the USA and UK.
In the UK Bill Gates is middle class, private school+parents with professional jobs -  but so is a nontenured lecturer making $20K.
A Silicon Valley programmer or Wall St Derivatives Quant  making $250K with $MM share options is working class.

Tabaxus

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Re: America's High-Earning "Poor"
« Reply #65 on: November 07, 2015, 05:08:13 PM »
Wait. How does employment status determine class?
By this rationale, I could be a billionaire, and if DW and I both work, we're middle class...?
A big difference between the USA and UK.
In the UK Bill Gates is middle class, private school+parents with professional jobs -  but so is a nontenured lecturer making $20K.
A Silicon Valley programmer or Wall St Derivatives Quant  making $250K with $MM share options is working class.

So the class definition in the UK is even more useless than it is in the US.  Got it.

nobodyspecial

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Re: America's High-Earning "Poor"
« Reply #66 on: November 07, 2015, 05:44:35 PM »
A big difference between the USA and UK.
In the UK Bill Gates is middle class, private school+parents with professional jobs -  but so is a nontenured lecturer making $20K.
A Silicon Valley programmer or Wall St Derivatives Quant  making $250K with $MM share options is working class.

So the class definition in the UK is even more useless than it is in the US.  Got it.
For sociology/economics - yes.
For judging other people's taste and looking down on them - no

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00hhrwl