Author Topic: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?  (Read 9139 times)

frugal rph

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Due to some ownership changes at my job, I'll no longer be eligible for health insurance working 22 hours a week. I can get insurance if I work 30 hours a week. I'm an almost solo parent of a 9 month old and 8 year old. It looks like a high deductible plan will cost us $600 a month. I have about  $35,000 in my HSA to cover several years of deductibles (we are all healthy so far).

I'm in the midst of a divorce. While I'm not currently receiving any child support, he owes about $1000 a month. My lawyer is working on it, but he's doing everything he can to slow the process down. Basically, I'm not going to count on it ever. I'm making ends meet on my own, but an extra $600 a month will require serious belt tightening. I have about $350000 in savings, and I'm thinking of just withdrawing a few hundred dollars a month on the months I need to. With a baby to raise alone and an impending divorce,  I have lost my enthusiasm for extreme savings.  The $350000 is my half of my joint assets with STBX.

Everyone I work with thinks I'm either crazy or receiving tons of child support. My life is very well balanced and I'm very happy now. I'm worried that 8 more hours a week will make me really stressed. I should add that I will have little to no control over when the 8 hours are and they may require a much longer commute than my current 15 minutes.

Any advice or comments are appreciated.

MoonShadow

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2015, 12:16:36 PM »
1) what is your hourly rate and...

2) do you only have one child?  Or several?
[edit]
Nevermind, I see that you have two kids now.  Is the 8 year old eligible for free lunch? If so, s/he might also be eligible for state medicaid as secondary insurance.

I'm leaning towards sticking with the 22 hour a week, balanced & low stress method for a year or two, then reassess once your baby is out of diapers.  And what you have presented here isn't really your only options; as a single, divorced working mother of a toddler.  In many states, you're child would almost certainly qualify for WIC; and if s/he qualifies for WIC, s/he also qualifies for state medicaid (as secondary insurnace) for the toddler, but not for yourself.  You might also qualify for state subsidized medical coverage if your wage rate is low enough.  And $600 per month for high deductible insurance for one adult and one child sounds ridiculous to me anyway.  If it were me, and I could get medicaid support for the kid, I might just let insurance ride for 2016 and pay the tax "fine".  Particularly with $35K in the HSA.  I would review my umbrella insurance coverage with my non-employer insurance agent, though.  My umbrella insurance policy has a catastrophic hospitalization clause in it, but is not considered health insurance, so it doesn't have to comply with the ACA minimums and is way cheaper.  Also, some employers have an obscure benefit for legal consultation services; that can often help you apply for state & federal aid.

In short, there is no reason that you can't take a couple years off from saving to enjoy life with your tot in the present.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 12:19:04 PM by MoonShadow »

GizmoTX

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2015, 12:46:41 PM »
It isn't just the $600/month premium -- what is the deductible for all of you? Are you aware that you have to pay the deductible IN FULL before you can utilize that insurance? I know you have $35k in an HSA, which is great, but I'd prefer to keep saving that.

Depending upon how much your job covers health insurance, working just 8 hours more sounds like a much better deal than the insurance marketplace.

norabird

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2015, 12:51:56 PM »
I agree about looking into medicaid. Will you have sole custody in the end? My understanding is that this is uncommon; if it's shared, you may have more time to work once everything shakes out. You do have the cushion to handle the deductible, but it could be that you could use the $600 to cover childcare for those extra 8 hours. But in general I think you probably know in your gut which route you want to take and you should take it.

Sorry for your situation!

KCM5

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2015, 01:23:10 PM »
Yes to looking into medicaid

And $600/mo is high. But we don't know your income level, so maybe there are no subsidies involved?

Also, I can tell this is messy and divorce is messy, but is there any chance in the future of your kids going on you soon to be ex spouse's insurance?

Edited to add: no, you're not crazy. With a baby and another kid and going through a divorce? And a large cash cushion? I wouldn't work the extra 8 hours. I'd hunker down and ride out the rough patch and then reassess once things have settled down.

frugal rph

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2015, 01:55:12 PM »
Thank you for the replies so far. To answer some of your questions, I earn $60 an hour as a pharmacist. I think this puts me over the income level for a healthcare subsidy, but I will look into it once I get closer to the date I'll lose insurance  (June 1).

My kids' father is almost absent from their lives by his choice, so I'm asking for full custody.  He told his lawyer that he lost his job, so putting the kids on his insurance isn't an option at this time.  It's also one of many factors complicating my divorce and increasing my legal costs.

I am aware that I'll have to pay the full $6000 deductible before anything is covered. I have a similar plan through my work now, and I've had 2 children on it.  What's killing my budget is childcare for the baby. I work a rotating schedule that includes evenings and weekends, so traditional daycare isn't an option for me. I'm paying another mom $200 a week to watch both of my kids, including taking my older daughter to and from school.

I've been thinking that things will get easier once the baby is 3 or 4. I just need to get through til then.

MoonShadow

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2015, 02:24:30 PM »
Thank you for the replies so far. To answer some of your questions, I earn $60 an hour as a pharmacist. I think this puts me over the income level for a healthcare subsidy, but I will look into it once I get closer to the date I'll lose insurance  (June 1).

So you are just shy of $70K per year working 22 hours per week. You are too high for a ACA subsidy, but not necessarily a state subsidy for medicare, WIC or child care.  The WIC & child care subsidies are the most likely, under some kind of 'deadbeat parent' (i.e. non-supporting parent) rule.  But then, WIC is a PITA.  I had 3 kids eligible for it as foster kids, and my wife & I were obligated by contract to maintain it.  We made over $100K at the time, so household income isn't always a dis-qualifier.

Quote

I've been thinking that things will get easier once the baby is 3 or 4. I just need to get through til then.

Yes, this exactly.  Maintain status quo as much as you can for the next couple of years, then reassess your situation.

norabird

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2015, 02:27:50 PM »
Just another note to say what a shame about the STBX. Ugh. Do what makes sense for you and hang in there.

Dee18

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2015, 06:16:58 PM »
Sounds like you have plenty of savings to stick with the 22 hours for now.  Also sounds like you have a good child care situation.  I remember being a working, single mom to a 9 month old, although that was years ago ( and I didn't have an 8 year old to juggle).  It's exhausting! Just do what works for you now.  Who knows what the future holds? 

FrugalFan

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2015, 07:04:26 PM »
I'm so sorry you are going through this! I think you should stick to the 22 hour per week. You don't need the extra stress right now and things will change as your baby gets older. I wouldn't feel bad about taking a bit of money out of your investments to get through this if you need it to cover the healthcare costs.

MMMaybe

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2015, 05:56:58 AM »
It might be worth just asking the question as to where they extra 8 hours might be? I know you are assuming it won't be ideal but no harm in asking. $600 a month is a lot to pay out of pocket.

The_path_less_taken

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2015, 06:07:48 AM »
I'm sorry you're going through this.

Most HR departments have someone you can talk to about these kinds of situations. It might be worth it to do so.

"I love this job but here's my situation."

If you're not comfortable with that, and you CAN'T get Medicaid for the kids....I'd consider it but tell them you need to work closer to the house if possible.

Some HR peeps will work with you. Hopefully yours will. I'm 'guessing' you're at some pharmacy chainstore situation but even there....some store managers might have the pull to say, "I really like her so I prefer she do my store."

Good luck!

StetsTerhune

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2015, 07:25:59 AM »
I think you need to sit down and put together the financial pros and cons here. You already seem to have done a good job of weighing the personal pros and cons. People still talk about and treat health care like it's a magical thing unrelated to money. It sort of was once, but these days you can just buy it, so just treat employer provided healthcare like extra salary.

My back of the envelope estimation:
Option A: 22 hours of work per week, Pay $600 a month in premiums, pay extra in deductible: you and two kids I'll guess average 2k a year in OOP expenses.

Option B: 30 hours of work per week, probably pay $100 in premium to employer, pay less deductible, but probably still average at leaste $500 a year.

So the trade off is 8 hours per week for $7500 per year in saved expenses. That's $18 an hour (and that's post tax, in a manner of speaking) in addition to whatever your normal hourly salary is. You'll need to come up with better estimates than I did, but combine that with the personal pros and cons you've already talked about and you should be better informed to make this decision.

Davids

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2015, 11:12:22 AM »
Are there other opportunies out there in your location where you could work a part time schedule. Are you in a hospital or retail setting? Maybe there is something else out there where you can maintain a similar part time schedule and qualify for the employer health insurance benefits.

Bearded Man

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2015, 11:35:05 AM »
Is the majority of that 350K you have from his income/savings/investments? I ask because if $600 is breaking the bank, I assume you didn't save that money, especially if you are willing to blow through it to live off instead of belt tightening. I wouldn't squander it like that, I'd work the extra 8 hours for health insurance.

KCM5

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2015, 11:49:32 AM »
Is the majority of that 350K you have from his income/savings/investments? I ask because if $600 is breaking the bank, I assume you didn't save that money, especially if you are willing to blow through it to live off instead of belt tightening. I wouldn't squander it like that, I'd work the extra 8 hours for health insurance.

An increase of expenses of 10% of a person's income is going to require belt tightening. Either by decreased spending in other areas or decreased savings. To imply that the change in expenses shouldn't have any effect on a person's budget is disingenuous, regardless of whether that person is saving 60% or 10% of their income.

honeybbq

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2015, 12:15:40 PM »
I think so. But I work in medicine....

frugal rph

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2015, 08:46:46 PM »
To answer some of the questions that have been asked, the extra 8 hours a week will come from covering vacations and sick days in the greater metro area where I live. This is the only option, and while the scheduler tries to keep you close to home, it isn't guaranteed.  I work in retail, and there are no other local employers who offer health benefits at less than 30 hours a week.

Bearded Man, most of this savings came from my income since until the last few years, I always out earned my STBX.  I've already managed to pay $5000 in legal fees without dipping into my savings. I was much more motivated to save before my life went to hell and I ended up raising 2 kids alone.   I never intended to spend my stash this way, but life doesn't always work out the way you plan.

I checked into WIC, and my income is way too high to qualify in my area. I would also feel guilty using a program like that with my assets.

I did talk to my new supervisor and she said I could pick up 1 or 2 extra shifts a month and choose from available stores and days after all the regular shifts have been assigned. I think I'll go that route to give myself some extra income but more scheduling flexibility.

Erica

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2015, 10:57:43 PM »
Due to some ownership changes at my job, I'll no longer be eligible for health insurance working 22 hours a week. I can get insurance if I work 30 hours a week. I'm an almost solo parent of a 9 month old and 8 year old. It looks like a high deductible plan will cost us $600 a month. I have about  $35,000 in my HSA to cover several years of deductibles (we are all healthy so far).

I'm in the midst of a divorce. While I'm not currently receiving any child support, he owes about $1000 a month. My lawyer is working on it, but he's doing everything he can to slow the process down. Basically, I'm not going to count on it ever. I'm making ends meet on my own, but an extra $600 a month will require serious belt tightening. I have about $350000 in savings, and I'm thinking of just withdrawing a few hundred dollars a month on the months I need to. With a baby to raise alone and an impending divorce,  I have lost my enthusiasm for extreme savings.  The $350000 is my half of my joint assets with STBX.

Everyone I work with thinks I'm either crazy or receiving tons of child support. My life is very well balanced and I'm very happy now. I'm worried that 8 more hours a week will make me really stressed. I should add that I will have little to no control over when the 8 hours are and they may require a much longer commute than my current 15 minutes.

Any advice or comments are appreciated.
So it is catastrophic insurance, not real health insurance. Stay home with your baby as much as possible during this critical time in her development. And your other little one needs you desperately also. They already are loosing their daddy, essentially. I wish you good luck during this tough time. To me this is a no-brainer, absolutely not.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 11:01:05 PM by Outdoorsygal »

jorjor

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2015, 11:59:57 PM »
Thank you for the replies so far. To answer some of your questions, I earn $60 an hour as a pharmacist. I think this puts me over the income level for a healthcare subsidy, but I will look into it once I get closer to the date I'll lose insurance  (June 1).

So you are just shy of $70K per year working 22 hours per week. You are too high for a ACA subsidy,


FPL for a family of 3 is just north of $20k, so $70k is right around 350% FPL and would qualify for subsidies. Premiums for the second lowest silver would be limited to 9.5% of earnings, less if you choose a cheaper bronze option.

So, not huge aubsidies but not non-existent either. I am not clear on how child support would effect the calc, but depending how the calc handles it that could push income over 400% FPL.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 12:02:16 AM by jorjor »

norabird

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2015, 08:59:59 AM »
Glad you can pick up some extra shifts to help! I think that's a great middle course to get you more cash without overstraining your schedule.

jorjor

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2015, 09:30:55 AM »
Slight change to my post a couple posts up. It isn't 9.5% anymore because of indexing. Substitute 9.63% of salary or whatever the exact number is for 2016 now.

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2015, 02:35:07 PM »
I don't think you're crazy. You can reevaluate in a few years. Your kids need you. Take an extra shift now and then if you like, tighten down some other areas if you have to, and just get through. Before you know it, you'll have two kids in full-time school, you'll all be settled into your new life, and you can regain ground. Your hard work saving up that nest egg is buying you flexibility now--you've earned it.

green daisy

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2015, 03:32:00 PM »
We have our children on state subsidized insurance.  In our state, for a family of 4, the MAGI needs to be below approximately $83K.  Deductible retirement contributions are not considered income, so we contribute to our 401ks and IRAs to get under that number. 

I would recommend looking into what your state offers. 

frugal rph

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2015, 05:03:14 AM »
That's good to know Green Daisy. I'll definitely look into it.

hybrid

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2015, 08:34:01 AM »
I wish the OP the best in getting her life together. But I will say this. With your assets, please leave WIC for those with almost no tangible assets who really need it, you obviously do not. Please do not game the social safety net just because you can, it was designed for people truly in need. You are not.

Work the extra eight hours, get real health insurance.

MoonShadow

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2015, 09:17:14 AM »
I wish the OP the best in getting her life together. But I will say this. With your assets, please leave WIC for those with almost no tangible assets who really need it, you obviously do not. Please do not game the social safety net just because you can, it was designed for people truly in need. You are not.

Work the extra eight hours, get real health insurance.

WIC, in particular, was designed to support working mothers of small children.  She may have good resources, but she can't quit working, so it was made for her.  And I'm a Libertarian, so I don't even think WIC should exist.  Yet, it does.

Cathy

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2015, 09:30:13 AM »
The United States is a nation of laws, not of people. The answer to the question of who is eligible to receive benefits such as WIC is dictated by those laws, not by the individual idiosyncratic views of any one person. If you think the eligibility requirements for a program are too generous, the correct solution is to persuade the legislature to amend the requirements, not to try to shame people into refraining from taking benefits that are enacted for their benefit.

That said, the WIC program has extremely stringent legal requirements. Under the law as enacted by Congress, "[p]articipation in the [WIC] program ... shall be limited to pregnant, postpartum, and breastfeeding women, infants, and children from low-income families who are determined by a competent professional authority to be at nutritional risk". 42 USC § 1786(d)(1) (emphasis added). The term "nutritional risk" means:

                         (A) detrimental or abnormal nutritional conditions detectable by biochemical or anthropometric measurements,
(B) other documented nutritionally related medical conditions,
(C) dietary deficiencies that impair or endanger health,
(D) conditions that directly affect the nutritional health of a person, such as alcoholism or drug abuse, or
(E) conditions that predispose persons to inadequate nutritional patterns or nutritionally related medical conditions, including, but not limited to, homelessness and migrancy
                               
42 USC § 1786(b)(8).

Most families with $350,000 in assets would be unable to meet this test (although some might be able to). To be clear, this test is part of the mandatory legal requirements for WIC; it is not just an idiosyncratically-determined assertion of the spirit of the law.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2015, 09:37:37 AM by Cathy »

mm1970

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2015, 11:17:19 AM »
I wish the OP the best in getting her life together. But I will say this. With your assets, please leave WIC for those with almost no tangible assets who really need it, you obviously do not. Please do not game the social safety net just because you can, it was designed for people truly in need. You are not.

Work the extra eight hours, get real health insurance.

WIC, in particular, was designed to support working mothers of small children.  She may have good resources, but she can't quit working, so it was made for her.  And I'm a Libertarian, so I don't even think WIC should exist.  Yet, it does.
I am going to agree with this.  See if you are eligible.

I would also not add more hours, unless they seem to "fit".  Especially with a 9 month old.  My boys are 9 and 3, and it wasn't until the little guy was 2.5 that I started to feel human again.

hybrid

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2015, 07:42:14 AM »
The United States is a nation of laws, not of people. The answer to the question of who is eligible to receive benefits such as WIC is dictated by those laws, not by the individual idiosyncratic views of any one person. If you think the eligibility requirements for a program are too generous, the correct solution is to persuade the legislature to amend the requirements, not to try to shame people into refraining from taking benefits that are enacted for their benefit.

That said, the WIC program has extremely stringent legal requirements. Under the law as enacted by Congress, "[p]articipation in the [WIC] program ... shall be limited to pregnant, postpartum, and breastfeeding women, infants, and children from low-income families who are determined by a competent professional authority to be at nutritional risk". 42 USC § 1786(d)(1) (emphasis added). The term "nutritional risk" means:

                         (A) detrimental or abnormal nutritional conditions detectable by biochemical or anthropometric measurements,
(B) other documented nutritionally related medical conditions,
(C) dietary deficiencies that impair or endanger health,
(D) conditions that directly affect the nutritional health of a person, such as alcoholism or drug abuse, or
(E) conditions that predispose persons to inadequate nutritional patterns or nutritionally related medical conditions, including, but not limited to, homelessness and migrancy
                               
42 USC § 1786(b)(8).

Most families with $350,000 in assets would be unable to meet this test (although some might be able to). To be clear, this test is part of the mandatory legal requirements for WIC; it is not just an idiosyncratically-determined assertion of the spirit of the law.

Cathy, what I think you have overlooked is that the OP reached out for an opinion and I gave it to her. It's not shaming when you ask a question and don't get the answer you want.

Thanks for the clarification of the law.

As for influencing the legislature, I'm going to get around to that right after I get this whole Middle East thing put to bed, I've been rather busy at the moment. How about real answers please?

As for WIC itself, I support the notion. But I am afraid it will lose popular support over time if people who are not truly in need access programs designed for the poor just because there might be a loophole in the law (measuring income instead of income and assets). There are plenty of folks who don't think it should exist period. Want to further erode public confidence? Stuff like this is a sure way to do that IMO.

mm1970

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2015, 10:26:13 AM »
The United States is a nation of laws, not of people. The answer to the question of who is eligible to receive benefits such as WIC is dictated by those laws, not by the individual idiosyncratic views of any one person. If you think the eligibility requirements for a program are too generous, the correct solution is to persuade the legislature to amend the requirements, not to try to shame people into refraining from taking benefits that are enacted for their benefit.

That said, the WIC program has extremely stringent legal requirements. Under the law as enacted by Congress, "[p]articipation in the [WIC] program ... shall be limited to pregnant, postpartum, and breastfeeding women, infants, and children from low-income families who are determined by a competent professional authority to be at nutritional risk". 42 USC § 1786(d)(1) (emphasis added). The term "nutritional risk" means:

                         (A) detrimental or abnormal nutritional conditions detectable by biochemical or anthropometric measurements,
(B) other documented nutritionally related medical conditions,
(C) dietary deficiencies that impair or endanger health,
(D) conditions that directly affect the nutritional health of a person, such as alcoholism or drug abuse, or
(E) conditions that predispose persons to inadequate nutritional patterns or nutritionally related medical conditions, including, but not limited to, homelessness and migrancy
                               
42 USC § 1786(b)(8).

Most families with $350,000 in assets would be unable to meet this test (although some might be able to). To be clear, this test is part of the mandatory legal requirements for WIC; it is not just an idiosyncratically-determined assertion of the spirit of the law.

Cathy, what I think you have overlooked is that the OP reached out for an opinion and I gave it to her. It's not shaming when you ask a question and don't get the answer you want.

Thanks for the clarification of the law.

As for influencing the legislature, I'm going to get around to that right after I get this whole Middle East thing put to bed, I've been rather busy at the moment. How about real answers please?

As for WIC itself, I support the notion. But I am afraid it will lose popular support over time if people who are not truly in need access programs designed for the poor just because there might be a loophole in the law (measuring income instead of income and assets). There are plenty of folks who don't think it should exist period. Want to further erode public confidence? Stuff like this is a sure way to do that IMO.
I guess it depends on your perspective.  I'm all for a hand up.  Would I rather this woman with assets get WIC for a couple of years until her children are older, allowing her to keep her assets?  Probably.  As a pharmacist, the amount of taxes she will pay on her income in her lifetime far exceeds the WIC payments.

Locally, we have a severe homeless problem.  A local mom posted a desperate need for a room in a house for $400 for herself, her 3 yo, and her 4 mo old infant.  Because she's getting kicked out of the shelter.

It's hard to get kicked out of this shelter.  So, I'm sure this mom is on WIC, but what on earth has she done to get kicked out?  This program is full on shelter, to independent home, includes child care AND job training.  It's one of my favorite local charities.

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2015, 08:13:24 PM »
Hmmmmm, I'm for a hand up too. But not for folks with 350 large in the bank who just aren't quite feeling like working 30 hours a week. Reality check please.

MoonShadow

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Re: Am I crazy not to work 8 more hours a week for health insurance?
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2015, 08:36:08 PM »
Hmmmmm, I'm for a hand up too. But not for folks with 350 large in the bank who just aren't quite feeling like working 30 hours a week. Reality check please.

Then lobby to change the law.  As it is, if she qualifies, she qualifies.  We are a nation of laws still, are we not?