Alternative Engineering Career Paths

[AlienRobotAnthropologist]

I'm an engineer (BS mechanical) and I hate my job. Technically challenging or meaningful engineering work seems too rare to realistically get my hands on, especially without a lot of experience. While I'm continuing to look for a job that actually uses more than 1% of my technical skills, I think should start considering non-traditional career paths.

So, are there any good suggestions, given 4 requirements:

1) Shall pay the same or better than a typical engineering job. If it's something I doubt I'd like (e.g. patent clerk), it needs to pay well.
2) Shall be reasonably close to a 40 hour work week. Doesn't have to be perfect, but not worse than engineering.
3) Shall provide some flexibility/choice with location. There should be more than 1 or 2 cities in the entire country that I can work in.
4) Shall be doable without another degree. A class or cert is fine. Just picking up some skills is fine.

Some ideas I've been considering are patent clerk, technical sales, and technical consulting.

[PDXTabs]

#4 rules out patent attorney, which pays really well.

Does it have to be engineering? CFAs get paid a lot to do math.

I have a friend with a BS in ME that taught himself to code and now does motion control firmware on mechanical devices (at my office). If you are at all interested in ME positions close to motion control on the west coast you could send me a PM and I could keep an eye out.

[stashing_it]

I did aerospace engineering for 12 years.   I taught myself to code 2 years ago, studied coding interviews, and recently got a job at one of the large software companies. 

I went from mid-career seniority in aerospace to entry level, and still got a 25% pay bump.

I'm sure that it varies by company, but I haven't found that I've had to work more than 40 hour weeks so far


-  long story short,  the large tech companies are making so much money and hungry enough for people that they are pulling in non-traditional candidates.  (It still isn't the easiest thing getting in, but doable)

[MMMarbleheader]

Every large construction manager has MEP estimating, engineering, and superintendents

You will start early in the morning but the hours migh not be too bad.

[FIRE_Wannabe]

I did aerospace engineering for 12 years.   I taught myself to code 2 years ago, studied coding interviews, and recently got a job at one of the large software companies. 

I went from mid-career seniority in aerospace to entry level, and still got a 25% pay bump.

I'm sure that it varies by company, but I haven't found that I've had to work more than 40 hour weeks so far


-  long story short,  the large tech companies are making so much money and hungry enough for people that they are pulling in non-traditional candidates.  (It still isn't the easiest thing getting in, but doable)

What coding language  or software did you teach yourself? I have thought about this but didn’t know what direction to go in.

[SwitchActiveDWG]

Have you considered other engineering fields?

I work in automation engineering and was in a very technically involved role right out of college. I am an EE but there are a number of MEs and CEs that I work with.

Knowledge of programming is required so as others have mentioned, learning to code makes sense to expand career options.

[Just Joe]

Which coding language? Are we talking PLC ladder logic?

[big_slacker]

We have a TON of people with real engineering degrees in network engineering. Normally EE, but any engineering degree is favorable. Checks all your boxes. Network engineering especially is hurting for qualified people. You'll want to get some certs and then some experience. You can be into 6 figures in just about any mid to large city within 3-5 years.

[SwitchActiveDWG]

Which coding language? Are we talking PLC ladder logic?

For my field it’s a variety of languages including PLC ladder logic, digital logic programming, C, VBA scripting, and general control systems programming.

However, when I say coding I am only referring to it as a concept. Once you understand the basics the particulars of a language or environment can be picked up relatively easily.

[Slow2FIRE]

1) Shall pay the same or better than a typical engineering job. If it's something I doubt I'd like (e.g. patent clerk), it needs to pay well.

https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/490729100

That salary range is incorrect (just put together to fit the normal USA Jobs formatting).

You start as a GS-7 step 10 with a Bachelors degree.  The actual GS-7 step 10 starting pay for a Patent Examiner is around $69,000/yr.
Sufficient experience in an area where you get hired into can allow you to talk yourself into a GS-9 Step 8 starting salary of around $77,000/yr (or if you have a master's or were already a Patent Agent).

Alternatively, a patent Agent is a field you can get into without pursuing further degrees.  The path for someone without a JD is typically Technical Specialist-> Patent Agent -> Patent Attorney where some law firms will foot the bill for law school.  However, it would be tough to get a Technical Specialist position and often it is easiest to become a Patent Agent by working for the US Patent Office first.

Takes 2 years and taking promotions immediately (and early promotions at that) and passing the Patent Bar to get the ability to work any where in the Continental US or Puerto Rico.  At this point you should be a GS-12 step 3 I think ...earning around $85,000/yr.

Another year to GS-13 step 1 for about $97,000/yr

Promotion to GS-14 takes a 2 year review process (ordinarily) but gets you to a salary of around $118,000/yr.  Non-competitive (everyone can be a GS-14).  This can be done in 5 years minimum if you work for it.

4% bonuses per year are reasonable to get.  Otherwise, it is easier to get overtime than the additional bonuses beyond 4% (maximum bonuses rise to 14% with some pretty unreasonable expectations if you are doing your job properly).

[Goldielocks]

Hard to recommend something without knowing where you are starting at -- how many years of experience and do you have your PE?

One place to look into is to become a Technical sales Engineer - the person that goes to different sites once the main sales person has almost completed the sale, to help the final terms, and then to lead the implementation design team.  This also leads into being a Project manager (of the installation) which leads into senior project manager roles with very high pay.

It does involve a lot of travel to interesting new client sites, problem and challenges to solve, sometimes unique or at least new, unique people every 3-6 months.  It tends to be a 40 hour week but you spend a lot of the off time in a town that you don't normally live in.

I struggled early in my engineering career with finding new interesting challenges, especially at 3-4 years after graduation.  It got a lot better after, and like any career, I alternate between a few years of 'UGH" and years of "Lovin' it".

[Just Joe]

Which coding language? Are we talking PLC ladder logic?

For my field it’s a variety of languages including PLC ladder logic, digital logic programming, C, VBA scripting, and general control systems programming.

However, when I say coding I am only referring to it as a concept. Once you understand the basics the particulars of a language or environment can be picked up relatively easily.

Thank you.

[FIRE Artist]

Have you thought about specializing in Quality management in manufacturing?  It can be interesting, and usually well situated in the organization for eventual promotion up through operations/general management.  You could also branch off into Lean Manufacturing/Six Sigma type of work which will open a lot of doors too. 

[FireHiker]

Have you thought about specializing in Quality management in manufacturing?  It can be interesting, and usually well situated in the organization for eventual promotion up through operations/general management.  You could also branch off into Lean Manufacturing/Six Sigma type of work which will open a lot of doors too.

I was going to make the same suggestion. Our managerial staff within our manufacturing organization is comprised of engineers (2 mechanical, 2 electrical). The work itself is not hands on development, but having the technical background opens a lot of doors. We finally have a "real" manufacturing engineer working in conjunction with quality (this individual's background is mechanical engineering specifically).

[Goldielocks]

Okay.

1)  Most jobs are kinda crap about 2-4 years in.  The exciting new-ness is gone, and the grunt work and rules (and supervisors) are more numerous.

2)   If it is reasonable to get your PE, do it.  Many engineering jobs don't require it, but you have more opportunities with it, especially with government / municipal roles, which you may like if you don't want to be a manager and want to keep standard hours.  (think city engineering department).

3)  A lot of humanities majors work for government, often in management roles for higher pay.  Some are project managers.  Some are HR administrators.  Some are CPA's, sales, etc.  Humanities majors can take on technical roles, too, with interest and a bit of extra classes.

4) I googled "Technical Sales Engineer Jobs" and Indeed's first hit was for Ingersoll Rand (HVAC Systems).  The next hit was for "MDProjects" who provide "reservoir characterization, modelling and simulation;" Duties are standard for technical sales: "Apply technical expertise to assist our clients and internal team in preparing project scopes and technical proposals."  Lots of travel required (which is a lot of fun before kids).   A third hit was for a company that manufactures boilers.   "As part of the project management team you will be expected to work with the sales, service and project management team to create designs that meet the project scope of work "

Your local area will have different companies, of course, but the jobs are as varied as the manufacturers.  I have done simulation and modelling as part of my (limited) sales, and that was fun, but always a new project , seeing new things, was the best part.

[PDXTabs]

- What do all the humanities majors do to make good money mid-career? They can't all be getting JDs, MBAs, etc. Maybe going completely outside engineering is better?

In my experience, they go into debt to do so, at substantial cost to their FIRE schedule.

- I've got pretty solid general programming skills (~5 CS classes + lots of programming heavy mechanical stuff), but I'd need to learn specific languages like ladder logic and don't know anything about fancy stuff like machine learning or a lot of the systems/networking type of stuff.

Networking is everywhere, I would encourage you to learn it if you want to get into programming. Although I've been in embedded systems for 10 years I've never touched ladder logic. Everyone I know works in C or C++, which is very transferable to Android (internals, not apps), Linux, and the rest of the world.

[jinga nation]

- I don't have a PE and don't think anybody at my company has one, but I've got a TS/SCI + FS poly. Only about 2 years experience, so hard to fully utilize on the job market. Most jobs that use it seem to be systems, which is horrible.
- I've got a business minor, but from my understanding finance jobs require hellish hours.
- I've got pretty solid general programming skills (~5 CS classes + lots of programming heavy mechanical stuff), but I'd need to learn specific languages like ladder logic and don't know anything about fancy stuff like machine learning or a lot of the systems/networking type of stuff.

Start studying for AWS associate certs. I am right now. There's a lot of AWS GovCloud going on, agencies require clearance like yours. You learn on the job a lot, most employers realize that they won't get experienced folks with the clearance, so there's a lot of leeway.

Most in my company came from various backgrounds, some including me are EEs.

My career path went from BS/MSEE RF engineering to EMI/EMC compliance testing to Virtualization to DoD IT systems integration to AWS Cloud for Govt, in 14 years. Accept the change and be agile and willing to learn.

Are you in the DC/NoVa area? If yes and interested, PM me for more info. Your clearance is GOLD!

[big_slacker]

- I don't have a PE and don't think anybody at my company has one, but I've got a TS/SCI + FS poly. Only about 2 years experience, so hard to fully utilize on the job market. Most jobs that use it seem to be systems, which is horrible.
- I've got a business minor, but from my understanding finance jobs require hellish hours.
- I've got pretty solid general programming skills (~5 CS classes + lots of programming heavy mechanical stuff), but I'd need to learn specific languages like ladder logic and don't know anything about fancy stuff like machine learning or a lot of the systems/networking type of stuff.

Start studying for AWS associate certs. I am right now. There's a lot of AWS GovCloud going on, agencies require clearance like yours. You learn on the job a lot, most employers realize that they won't get experienced folks with the clearance, so there's a lot of leeway.

Most in my company came from various backgrounds, some including me are EEs.

My career path went from BS/MSEE RF engineering to EMI/EMC compliance testing to Virtualization to DoD IT systems integration to AWS Cloud for Govt, in 14 years. Accept the change and be agile and willing to learn.

Are you in the DC/NoVa area? If yes and interested, PM me for more info. Your clearance is GOLD!

Good advice. Clearance + a bit of programming + a bit of systems + some AWS knowledge should be insta-jawb right now. :D

[stashing_it]

I did aerospace engineering for 12 years.   I taught myself to code 2 years ago, studied coding interviews, and recently got a job at one of the large software companies. 

I went from mid-career seniority in aerospace to entry level, and still got a 25% pay bump.

I'm sure that it varies by company, but I haven't found that I've had to work more than 40 hour weeks so far


-  long story short,  the large tech companies are making so much money and hungry enough for people that they are pulling in non-traditional candidates.  (It still isn't the easiest thing getting in, but doable)

What coding language  or software did you teach yourself? I have thought about this but didn’t know what direction to go in.

I focused on Python because it was useful at my previous job, however the job I ended up getting is nearly all Java currently.  So I've been learning it on the job.

[Entropy]

Sales Engineer Here.  This is a broad job title.  It is very dependent on what company/industry you are in.

Guys in my position make about $120-180/yr depending on commission structure.  I work 5am-7pm five days a week, and work 4-6 hours on most weekends.  Theoretically, I get unlimited vacation, but the nature of our 24/7 operating customers prevents excessive vacation time.

There is lots of travel if you are far from customers.  I am on the Gulf Coast, which makes everything a quick drive.

[ender]

There are plenty of mech engineer jobs that require technical knowledge.

I would not write off the entire career field because your specific job does not.

[Car Jack]

If you can talk to people (I have to say that because a big % of engineers can't), you could consider being a field apps engineer.  I've done it (MSEE) for quite a while.  Typical pay is 25% more than the same level engineer and bonuses and company profit sharing, RSUs etc can really add up.  Last year, I made almost double my base salary with all the extras.

I don't know how patent attorneys do it.  I own a couple patents and when I read the description in legal terms, I literally fell asleep at my desk.  I once considered going into it under a program with my employer.  Passed the LSATs with flying colors and accepted into law school.  Got another job offer and took it.  You can get a law degree in about 4 years at some law schools (the one I was accepted into).

Are there more challenging, technical design jobs you could take?  I was recruited into my first job out of college from a top engineering school and went immediately into full blown design of a product that went into production.  Went on to do another 7 that went into production at that job, then another job where as a company technical lead, designed a major system and also approved all other designs.  You really have to first get those "real" design jobs and get experience.  Then follow on jobs are easier. 

[Capt j-rod]

I am a mechanical as well. I specialized in HVAC, process steam, chilled water, and indoor air quality. I liked the energy engineering side and IAQ so I kinda went that way. After doing this for five years I went on my own. I did energy audits and sustainability projects. I then started installing residential HVAC at night and picked up plumbing. Now I have my own business and do HVAC for residential and light commercial. I also started buying rentals and run those too. It was scary as hell at first but now it is really laid back. I still do some energy work but I like the field better. I never thought I would do this, but the engineering houses are sweat shops and you go from hero to zero if you don't win the contract. Now it is just me and my truck. One cell phone, a stack of business cards and more work than I want to do. My rentals are a great base line and the business fills the rest of the month. I turned down more work last year than I did in the first two years in business. It's all about making a good customer base. Good luck in your quest, I tell everyone that you don't need to know what you want to do for a living, but you sure as hell better know what you don't want to do.

[nick663]

I'm having a tough time deciphering what you're looking for.  You say that you want something technically challenging and then you want to go into being a patent clerk?  Those people push paper around.  Technical sales is more people skills than actual deep dive technical work as well... you have to know a lot but the R&D side (which is what I think of when I hear "technically challenging") is non existent.

If you want something more technically challenging work either ask your boss for more interesting projects or find a new employer that will provide them.  I've worked for 3 different companies now and the roles/responsibilities of Engineers were vastly different in each one.

What do you find interesting?  What do you like about your current job?  What did you like about Engineering at school?

[Goldielocks]

FYI -- When I mentioned technical sales, I wasn't thinking straight up sales, but the engineer that solves the problem using the company's product that the sales person sells... (and then installing it and helping to check it out that it is working as promised).   e.g., the "modelling and simulation", "Design a robotic arm tool that will do X".... kind of technical sales.

[albireo13]

Software is where it's at!

Also, consider working towards becoming a private consultant, or contract engineer.

  When you charge a decent $$/hr, they don't want you sitting in useless meetings, or working on mind-numbing documentation.

[Schaefer Light]

I work 5am-7pm five days a week, and work 4-6 hours on most weekends.

Damn.  Those are some crazy hours.

[Lance Burkhart]

why not welding, machining, or some other type of fabrication?  If you believe Mike Rowe, they're in short supply.  The problem with a lot of engineers is they have no physical sense of what they're designing, so you could always go back to engineering with better skills.

[Slow2FIRE]

I'm having a tough time deciphering what you're looking for.  You say that you want something technically challenging and then you want to go into being a patent clerk?  Those people push paper around.

Yes, a Patent Examiner or Patent Agent in the USA will face lots of paper "pushing".  Boring work in many cases.  I don't find it to be that much less interesting than software development on a big project where you are just working on a small portion of the code (small software projects are interesting because you can easily get the end results and satisfaction of knowing you created a large chunk of it in a short time frame).  The back and forth with Patent Attorneys/Agents is my favorite part of the job - a chess match of sorts as you prosecute the case where the Applicant wants overly broad coverage and you are working to chip that down to what you believe does not infringe on existing patents/technical papers/products for sale.

(Is Patent Clerk the term in the EU / WPO or a specific country?).
BTW - Patent Attorneys do get paid quite well, and they appear to work ridiculous hours to earn that high salary.  If I had to guess, I'd say Attorneys can make double what Agents/Examiners make once they are no longer a Junior Associate.